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Posted to dev@geronimo.apache.org by Joe Bohn <jo...@earthlink.net> on 2008/06/05 17:07:03 UTC

[DISCUSS] Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1

Start of thread to discuss any concerns/issues/questions with the vote 
for the Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1

Joe

Re: [DISCUSS] Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1

Posted by Donald Woods <dw...@apache.org>.
For something that is only designed to work with the 2.1.1 server 
runtime, then Yes.

-Donald


Joe Bohn wrote:
> Donald Woods wrote:
>> Would have been nice if this was versioned the same as the server it 
>> is targeting....  at least a version=2.1 would have been better than 1.0.
>>
>>
>> -Donald
>>
>>
>> Joe Bohn wrote:
>>> Start of thread to discuss any concerns/issues/questions with the 
>>> vote for the Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
> 
> I thought about that ... but I decided to follow the precedent of other 
> independent plugins that we have released from 
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/plugins.  So far, I think the 
> only one that has been released is directory which was released as 
> version 1.0 for the Geronimo 2.1 server.
> 
> Are you asserting that we should change that precedent?
> 
> Joe
> 
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1

Posted by Joe Bohn <jo...@earthlink.net>.
Donald Woods wrote:
> Would have been nice if this was versioned the same as the server it is 
> targeting....  at least a version=2.1 would have been better than 1.0.
> 
> 
> -Donald
> 
> 
> Joe Bohn wrote:
>> Start of thread to discuss any concerns/issues/questions with the vote 
>> for the Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1
>>
>> Joe
>>

I thought about that ... but I decided to follow the precedent of other 
independent plugins that we have released from 
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/geronimo/plugins.  So far, I think the 
only one that has been released is directory which was released as 
version 1.0 for the Geronimo 2.1 server.

Are you asserting that we should change that precedent?

Joe


Re: [DISCUSS] Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1

Posted by Donald Woods <dw...@apache.org>.
Would have been nice if this was versioned the same as the server it is 
targeting....  at least a version=2.1 would have been better than 1.0.


-Donald


Joe Bohn wrote:
> Start of thread to discuss any concerns/issues/questions with the vote 
> for the Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1
> 
> Joe
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1

Posted by Donald Woods <dw...@apache.org>.
I still think the plugin is useful, but it really points out some of the 
internal integration/architecture problems we have in the server today 
that need to be addressed before we release a 2.2.


-Donald


Joe Bohn wrote:
> Well ... this is certainly something to discuss ... perhaps a bit larger 
> than this plugin in scope.
> 
> As way of background ... the motivation for the plugin was to close out 
> a discussion (and JIRA) that was nearly a year old.  At the time (and in 
> subsequent recent discussions) it decided that this simple plugin would 
> provide one solution for users that wanted to share a common Geronimo 
> installation image and have server specific instances each controlling 
> it's own set of deployed applications.  See GERONIMO-2814
>  > [https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/GERONIMO-2814] for details.  I 
> think this plugin (and the wiki notes) provide a manageable but 
> certainly not optimal solution for the desired configuration.
> 
> Considering a default split between repositories for system vs. server 
> use by default (even if only a single Geronimo server is running from an 
> installation) is a much broader issue and requires more consensus from 
> the community.
> 
> Is it your opinion that we should not release this plugin and tackle 
> this larger issue?
> 
> I'd be interested in hearing other opinions on this point.
> 
> It seems that this simple plugin is becoming a hot-bed for several large 
> issues ... plugin version management, repository structure/management 
> ... what's next?  :-)
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Woods wrote:
>> Well, looking at the wiki page explaining this in the vote, I really 
>> don't like the 2 notes/warnings at the bottom of the page.
>>
>> It seems that what we really need to do, is in 2.2 make a new server 
>> instance repo under /var/repository the default for any user deployed 
>> apps/plugins and update the current portlet to install/view items into 
>> the repo, to only allow view rights to ghome/repository and 
>> install/view to var/repository.
>>
>> That way, we don't get apps deployed to multiple repos at the same 
>> time as the default behavior, users don't have to add a second repo 
>> themselves (which require write access to the ghome/repository 
>> directory) and it may help simplify how things would behave when WADI 
>> clustering is used.
>>
>>
>> -Donald
>>
>>
>> Joe Bohn wrote:
>>> Start of thread to discuss any concerns/issues/questions with the 
>>> vote for the Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
> 
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1

Posted by Joe Bohn <jo...@earthlink.net>.
Well ... this is certainly something to discuss ... perhaps a bit larger 
than this plugin in scope.

As way of background ... the motivation for the plugin was to close out 
a discussion (and JIRA) that was nearly a year old.  At the time (and in 
subsequent recent discussions) it decided that this simple plugin would 
provide one solution for users that wanted to share a common Geronimo 
installation image and have server specific instances each controlling 
it's own set of deployed applications.  See GERONIMO-2814
 > [https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/GERONIMO-2814] for details.  I 
think this plugin (and the wiki notes) provide a manageable but 
certainly not optimal solution for the desired configuration.

Considering a default split between repositories for system vs. server 
use by default (even if only a single Geronimo server is running from an 
installation) is a much broader issue and requires more consensus from 
the community.

Is it your opinion that we should not release this plugin and tackle 
this larger issue?

I'd be interested in hearing other opinions on this point.

It seems that this simple plugin is becoming a hot-bed for several large 
issues ... plugin version management, repository structure/management 
... what's next?  :-)

Joe



Donald Woods wrote:
> Well, looking at the wiki page explaining this in the vote, I really 
> don't like the 2 notes/warnings at the bottom of the page.
> 
> It seems that what we really need to do, is in 2.2 make a new server 
> instance repo under /var/repository the default for any user deployed 
> apps/plugins and update the current portlet to install/view items into 
> the repo, to only allow view rights to ghome/repository and install/view 
> to var/repository.
> 
> That way, we don't get apps deployed to multiple repos at the same time 
> as the default behavior, users don't have to add a second repo 
> themselves (which require write access to the ghome/repository 
> directory) and it may help simplify how things would behave when WADI 
> clustering is used.
> 
> 
> -Donald
> 
> 
> Joe Bohn wrote:
>> Start of thread to discuss any concerns/issues/questions with the vote 
>> for the Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1
>>
>> Joe
>>


Re: [DISCUSS] Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1

Posted by Donald Woods <dw...@apache.org>.
Well, looking at the wiki page explaining this in the vote, I really 
don't like the 2 notes/warnings at the bottom of the page.

It seems that what we really need to do, is in 2.2 make a new server 
instance repo under /var/repository the default for any user deployed 
apps/plugins and update the current portlet to install/view items into 
the repo, to only allow view rights to ghome/repository and install/view 
to var/repository.

That way, we don't get apps deployed to multiple repos at the same time 
as the default behavior, users don't have to add a second repo 
themselves (which require write access to the ghome/repository 
directory) and it may help simplify how things would behave when WADI 
clustering is used.


-Donald


Joe Bohn wrote:
> Start of thread to discuss any concerns/issues/questions with the vote 
> for the Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1
> 
> Joe
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1

Posted by Kevan Miller <ke...@gmail.com>.
On Jun 8, 2008, at 10:54 PM, Joe Bohn wrote:

>
> Kevan Miller wrote:
>> On Jun 5, 2008, at 11:07 AM, Joe Bohn wrote:
>>> Start of thread to discuss any concerns/issues/questions with the  
>>> vote for the Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1
>> I'm inclined to vote -1. Nothing to do with the plugin, per se. It  
>> looks fine. It's really a server issue...
>> Using a 2.1.2-SNAPSHOT server, the plugin is evaluated as  
>> "Installable". However, the plugin won't install because of a  
>> dependency on 2.1.1 artifacts. I think we need to demonstrate that  
>> we can handle this simple migration scenario, before releasing any  
>> more plugins.
>> --kevan
>
> I understand your concern but I don't buy the logic of a -1 vote on  
> the plugin.  So we should not release a plugin for 2.1.1 that works  
> fine on 2.1.1 because of a concern with the 2.1.2-SNAPSHOT server  
> which is not even yet released?  It seems to me like your issue  
> would really be with the 2.1.2 server when that eventually goes up  
> for vote.

Yep. I'm not being entirely logical, just drawing a line in the sand.  
I'd have the same opinion about a samples vote or a 2.1.2 server vote.

I'm not saying that it's the plugin's fault. My assumption is that we  
can fix the migration issue by using artifact aliases in 2.1.2.  
However, if we find that there's some change needed in the plugin,  
itself, we should be fixing the problem, now.

--kevan



Re: [DISCUSS] Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1

Posted by Joe Bohn <jo...@earthlink.net>.
Joe Bohn wrote:
> 
> Kevan Miller wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 5, 2008, at 11:07 AM, Joe Bohn wrote:
>>
>>> Start of thread to discuss any concerns/issues/questions with the 
>>> vote for the Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1
>>
>> I'm inclined to vote -1. Nothing to do with the plugin, per se. It 
>> looks fine. It's really a server issue...
>>
>> Using a 2.1.2-SNAPSHOT server, the plugin is evaluated as 
>> "Installable". However, the plugin won't install because of a 
>> dependency on 2.1.1 artifacts. I think we need to demonstrate that we 
>> can handle this simple migration scenario, before releasing any more 
>> plugins.
>>
>> --kevan
> 
> I understand your concern but I don't buy the logic of a -1 vote on the 
> plugin.  So we should not release a plugin for 2.1.1 that works fine on 
> 2.1.1 because of a concern with the 2.1.2-SNAPSHOT server which is not 
> even yet released?  It seems to me like your issue would really be with 
> the 2.1.2 server when that eventually goes up for vote.
> 

BTW, I am delaying calling the vote until we resolve this concern.

Joe

Re: [DISCUSS] Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1

Posted by Joe Bohn <jo...@earthlink.net>.
Joe Bohn wrote:
> 
> Kevan Miller wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 5, 2008, at 11:07 AM, Joe Bohn wrote:
>>
>>> Start of thread to discuss any concerns/issues/questions with the 
>>> vote for the Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1
>>
>> I'm inclined to vote -1. Nothing to do with the plugin, per se. It 
>> looks fine. It's really a server issue...
>>
>> Using a 2.1.2-SNAPSHOT server, the plugin is evaluated as 
>> "Installable". However, the plugin won't install because of a 
>> dependency on 2.1.1 artifacts. I think we need to demonstrate that we 
>> can handle this simple migration scenario, before releasing any more 
>> plugins.
>>
>> --kevan
> 
> I understand your concern but I don't buy the logic of a -1 vote on the 
> plugin.  So we should not release a plugin for 2.1.1 that works fine on 
> 2.1.1 because of a concern with the 2.1.2-SNAPSHOT server which is not 
> even yet released?  It seems to me like your issue would really be with 
> the 2.1.2 server when that eventually goes up for vote.
> 


Hmm ... perhaps this is a concern with the plugin itself.  The reason 
that the plugin is eligible to be installed on 2.1.2-SNAPSHOT (and even 
2.2-SNAPSHOT for that matter) is because I didn't include the 
car-maven-plugin config "includeVersion" set to true.  Had this been set 
the plugin would be marked as not installable in other Geronimo releases 
... hence no concern.  I think I left this off because I way 
experimenting with the this attribute for the version compatibility issues.

So ... if this is a concern then perhaps we should spin a new plugin 
image with strict Geronimo version checking for the plugin.  Now the 
question is ... "Should I make this simple change and respin the 
existing plugin of should we tackle the larger version issue as Kevan 
suggests using this plugin as a proof point?

Joe


Re: [DISCUSS] Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1

Posted by Joe Bohn <jo...@earthlink.net>.
Kevan Miller wrote:
> 
> On Jun 5, 2008, at 11:07 AM, Joe Bohn wrote:
> 
>> Start of thread to discuss any concerns/issues/questions with the vote 
>> for the Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1
> 
> I'm inclined to vote -1. Nothing to do with the plugin, per se. It looks 
> fine. It's really a server issue...
> 
> Using a 2.1.2-SNAPSHOT server, the plugin is evaluated as "Installable". 
> However, the plugin won't install because of a dependency on 2.1.1 
> artifacts. I think we need to demonstrate that we can handle this simple 
> migration scenario, before releasing any more plugins.
> 
> --kevan

I understand your concern but I don't buy the logic of a -1 vote on the 
plugin.  So we should not release a plugin for 2.1.1 that works fine on 
2.1.1 because of a concern with the 2.1.2-SNAPSHOT server which is not 
even yet released?  It seems to me like your issue would really be with 
the 2.1.2 server when that eventually goes up for vote.

Joe




Re: [DISCUSS] Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1

Posted by Kevan Miller <ke...@gmail.com>.
On Jun 5, 2008, at 11:07 AM, Joe Bohn wrote:

> Start of thread to discuss any concerns/issues/questions with the  
> vote for the Server Repository plugin for Geronimo 2.1.1

I'm inclined to vote -1. Nothing to do with the plugin, per se. It  
looks fine. It's really a server issue...

Using a 2.1.2-SNAPSHOT server, the plugin is evaluated as  
"Installable". However, the plugin won't install because of a  
dependency on 2.1.1 artifacts. I think we need to demonstrate that we  
can handle this simple migration scenario, before releasing any more  
plugins.

--kevan