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Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org> on 2005/09/28 14:39:50 UTC
Re: [Proposal] rollback - internal.view and
output.viewHelper.xhtml to revision 280939 (was Re: svn commit: r292072)
El mié, 28-09-2005 a las 09:34 +0100, Ross Gardler escribió:
...
> I note that your theme plugin contains all the contracts rather than
> just the theme, is this a result of copying the branch and we are still
> in agreement about the above processing pipeline? In other words we are
> going to refactor the structure of this plugin at some point in the future?
I am refactoring them, that is why they broke the trunk!
> Assuming that we are still in agreement we should really get some
> representation of this diagram into our TR, perhaps with some of the
> discussion from those threads too.
Just go ahead and do it.
salu2
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: [Proposal] rollback -
internal.view and output.viewHelper.xhtml to revision 280939 (was Re: svn
commit: r292072)
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
El mié, 28-09-2005 a las 23:32 +0100, Ross Gardler escribió:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> > El mié, 28-09-2005 a las 21:45 +0100, Ross Gardler escribió:
> > ...
>
> ...
>
> >> Unfortunately, I cannot give examples from it as the
> >>organisation has not permitted me to open source that part of the code.
>
> ...
>
> > To bad that there are still companies that like using os but do not want give anything back.
> > I made some experience on that as well and it is a bummer.
>
> Actually, this particular organisation has contributed a hell of a lot
> to Forrest (and to many other OS products).
Thanks very much to this organisation. I did not want to say this to
offend anyone. Please keep on supporting us by letting devs release code
back to the core. It it helping you even ...
> They just don't want to
> contribute this particular part of their system since it is part of
> their competitive advantage right now.
Yes, that is the reason I could not release the inx plugin. :(
> In the past they have done the
> same, but when competitors caught up they have donated back.
Hmm, software as competitive advantage is short term only, I am afraid.
The optimization of the involved process supported by this software will
lead to longer term strategic advantages.
...but that leads to strategic managements theories and M. Porter where
you will find exceptions for above said...
Anyway, I can fully understand that they do not feel to donate it back.
This is the phenomenon of free riding which is really bad in OS.
Competitors will use your donations but not having the producing costs.
Sad but true. :(
> (got to say that because I know some of them are in here ;-)
>
(had to reply to it because of this ;-)
> > Anyway I would be glad to see a simple example how you did it as soon as you find some time.
>
> No problem. I'm keen to see the new branch so I can do it in there, the
> organisation has *not* restricted changes to Forrest Core, only to the
> plugin. So it is only a matter of my finding time.
>
> Ross
>
:)
You can even make an example in an email I do not care. ;-)
Anyway, I will create now the new branch.
salu2
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: [Proposal] rollback - internal.view and output.viewHelper.xhtml
to revision 280939 (was Re: svn commit: r292072)
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> El mié, 28-09-2005 a las 21:45 +0100, Ross Gardler escribió:
> ...
...
>> Unfortunately, I cannot give examples from it as the
>>organisation has not permitted me to open source that part of the code.
...
> To bad that there are still companies that like using os but do not want give anything back.
> I made some experience on that as well and it is a bummer.
Actually, this particular organisation has contributed a hell of a lot
to Forrest (and to many other OS products). They just don't want to
contribute this particular part of their system since it is part of
their competitive advantage right now. In the past they have done the
same, but when competitors caught up they have donated back.
(got to say that because I know some of them are in here ;-)
> Anyway I would be glad to see a simple example how you did it as soon as you find some time.
No problem. I'm keen to see the new branch so I can do it in there, the
organisation has *not* restricted changes to Forrest Core, only to the
plugin. So it is only a matter of my finding time.
Ross
Re: [Proposal] rollback - internal.view
and output.viewHelper.xhtml to revision 280939 (was Re: svn commit: r292072)
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
El mié, 28-09-2005 a las 21:45 +0100, Ross Gardler escribió:
...
> Hmmm... there is nothing in the log you quote that says I am to provide
> an example. The Resume plugin I refer to is an adaption of the plugin
> in SVN. Unfortunately, I cannot give examples from it as the
> organisation has not permitted me to open source that part of the code.
> I hope to implement something similar in the Amazon ECS plugin as that
> is for a voluntary organisation that understands the idea of sharing.
> However, it is a voluntary organisation, so don't hold your breath, work
> will happen only when time allows.
>
> It works like this:
>
> resume src -> contracts -> XDoc -> XDoc2XHTML.xsl -> CSS -> themed page
>
> This is explained in more detail in my mail outlining my approach to
> integrating XHTML2 and is discussed further in the rest of the IRC log.
Dude, sorry that it may came around wee bit different that I indented. I
actually do not understand how you did
resume src -> contracts -> XDoc
that was the reason I asked again. Till now if you use contracts you
have to go through the plugins but it seems you found out how to use
contracts in a better way. I am really keen to learn myself how we can
enhance views and your description sounds wonderful.
To bad that there are still companies that like using os but do not want give anything back.
I made some experience on that as well and it is a bummer.
Anyway I would be glad to see a simple example how you did it as soon as you find some time.
Cheers
salu2
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: [Proposal] rollback - internal.view and output.viewHelper.xhtml
to revision 280939 (was Re: svn commit: r292072)
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> El mié, 28-09-2005 a las 14:39 +0200, Thorsten Scherler escribió:
>
>>El mié, 28-09-2005 a las 09:34 +0100, Ross Gardler escribió:
>>...
>>
>>>I note that your theme plugin contains all the contracts rather than
>>>just the theme, is this a result of copying the branch and we are still
>>>in agreement about the above processing pipeline? In other words we are
>>>going to refactor the structure of this plugin at some point in the future?
>>
>>I am refactoring them, that is why they broke the trunk!
>
>
> ...
> BTW I am waiting for the example:
Hmmm... there is nothing in the log you quote that says I am to provide
an example. The Resume plugin I refer to is an adaption of the plugin
in SVN. Unfortunately, I cannot give examples from it as the
organisation has not permitted me to open source that part of the code.
I hope to implement something similar in the Amazon ECS plugin as that
is for a voluntary organisation that understands the idea of sharing.
However, it is a voluntary organisation, so don't hold your breath, work
will happen only when time allows.
It works like this:
resume src -> contracts -> XDoc -> XDoc2XHTML.xsl -> CSS -> themed page
This is explained in more detail in my mail outlining my approach to
integrating XHTML2 and is discussed further in the rest of the IRC log.
Ross
> Sep 19 09:29:57 <rgardler> contracts(core) - they are used in core, they
> may be provided by an input plugin though, e.g. resume plugin has
> contracts that convert from resume DTD to XHTML2
> Sep 19 09:52:38 <rgardler> Have you looked at the Resume plugin? (I ask
> so that I know where to pitch my explanation)
> Sep 19 09:52:55 <twilliams_> but i don't see how the contract itself "contracts produce XHTML2 for consumption in the core"
> Sep 19 09:53:27 <tscherler> (00:53:11) twilliams_: but i don't see how the contract itself "contracts produce XHTML2 for consumption in the core"-> I just looking at the resume plugin and do not dsee this either
> Sep 19 09:53:30 <twilliams_> noo
> Sep 19 09:53:46 <twilliams_> i can though if it won't waste folks time
> Sep 19 09:54:32 <rgardler> No, I need to explain it Tim
> Sep 19 09:54:45 <rgardler> The resume plugin uses a resume DTD as input
> Sep 19 09:55:41 <rgardler> (I just realised the committed version of the plugin doesn't do this - no wonder you are all confused - sorry)
>
> salu2
Re: [Proposal] rollback - internal.view and
output.viewHelper.xhtml to revision 280939 (was Re: svn commit: r292072)
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
El mié, 28-09-2005 a las 14:39 +0200, Thorsten Scherler escribió:
> El mié, 28-09-2005 a las 09:34 +0100, Ross Gardler escribió:
> ...
> > I note that your theme plugin contains all the contracts rather than
> > just the theme, is this a result of copying the branch and we are still
> > in agreement about the above processing pipeline? In other words we are
> > going to refactor the structure of this plugin at some point in the future?
>
> I am refactoring them, that is why they broke the trunk!
...
BTW I am waiting for the example:
Sep 19 09:29:57 <rgardler> contracts(core) - they are used in core, they
may be provided by an input plugin though, e.g. resume plugin has
contracts that convert from resume DTD to XHTML2
Sep 19 09:52:38 <rgardler> Have you looked at the Resume plugin? (I ask
so that I know where to pitch my explanation)
Sep 19 09:52:55 <twilliams_> but i don't see how the contract itself "contracts produce XHTML2 for consumption in the core"
Sep 19 09:53:27 <tscherler> (00:53:11) twilliams_: but i don't see how the contract itself "contracts produce XHTML2 for consumption in the core"-> I just looking at the resume plugin and do not dsee this either
Sep 19 09:53:30 <twilliams_> noo
Sep 19 09:53:46 <twilliams_> i can though if it won't waste folks time
Sep 19 09:54:32 <rgardler> No, I need to explain it Tim
Sep 19 09:54:45 <rgardler> The resume plugin uses a resume DTD as input
Sep 19 09:55:41 <rgardler> (I just realised the committed version of the plugin doesn't do this - no wonder you are all confused - sorry)
salu2
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: [Proposal] rollback - internal.view
and output.viewHelper.xhtml to revision 280939 (was Re: svn commit: r292072)
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
El mié, 28-09-2005 a las 21:46 +0100, Ross Gardler escribió:
...
>
> >>Assuming that we are still in agreement we should really get some
> >>representation of this diagram into our TR, perhaps with some of the
> >>discussion from those threads too.
> >
> >
> > Just go ahead and do it.
>
> Yeah, I know. But one has to have the time. I spent alot of time writing
> the mail in the first place. I mention it here in case someone else has
> the time to leverage that documentation before I do.
I know what you are talking about but there are sadly only a handful
that actually are doing it. I felt you was asking me personally to do it
and sadly my todo list is too crowed to add another task. :( That is the
reason of that sentence.
salu2
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: [Proposal] rollback - internal.view and output.viewHelper.xhtml
to revision 280939 (was Re: svn commit: r292072)
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> El mié, 28-09-2005 a las 09:34 +0100, Ross Gardler escribió:
> ...
>
>>I note that your theme plugin contains all the contracts rather than
>>just the theme, is this a result of copying the branch and we are still
>>in agreement about the above processing pipeline? In other words we are
>>going to refactor the structure of this plugin at some point in the future?
>
>
> I am refactoring them, that is why they broke the trunk!
That's cool then, just checking.
>>Assuming that we are still in agreement we should really get some
>>representation of this diagram into our TR, perhaps with some of the
>>discussion from those threads too.
>
>
> Just go ahead and do it.
Yeah, I know. But one has to have the time. I spent alot of time writing
the mail in the first place. I mention it here in case someone else has
the time to leverage that documentation before I do.
Ross