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Posted to users@wicket.apache.org by chickabee <ja...@gmail.com> on 2007/09/08 13:52:14 UTC
First Day Disgust!
Hi Wicketers,
I tried wicket today and the example application was up and running on
tomcat in no time, so that was the good part, after that if I like to create
a sample application on my own then I found no easy way to start.
Examples are good to browse through and tell about wicket capabilities,
however, not so good from learning point of view, All of the examples are
glued together in one big jar file and it is just not quick enough to create
a bare-bone application quickly and easily,
I tried Quicket as mentioned in the readme file, however, Quickets is
nothing but waste of time, because it is glued with Hibernate and Spring and
both should not be there to start with.
Not a good experience trying wicket so far, I guess it's the time to try out
some more simpler app frameworks,
-Thumbs Down to Wicket!
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
I hate to say it, but I'll do it anyway:
It is a wiki so if you think something is
missing/incomplete/incorrect/needs restructuring... log on and make it
better! Not only will you benefit from the change, but the rest of the
community will have a better life too!
As for the component descriptions, we are trying to coerse maven into
generating a website similar to the one we had for 1.2, but now for
1.3.
in the future it will become available here (nothing there to see at
this moment):
http://wicket.apache.org/wicket13
and the url structure would be something like:
http://wicket.apache.org/wicket13/index.html <- overview
http://wicket.apache.org/wicket13/wicket <- wicket core
http://wicket.apache.org/wicket13/wicket/dependencies.html
http://wicket.apache.org/wicket13/wicket/index.html
http://wicket.apache.org/wicket13/wicket/source-repository.html
http://wicket.apache.org/wicket13/wicket/apidocs
http://wicket.apache.org/wicket13/wicket-extensions
http://wicket.apache.org/wicket13/wicket-extensions/index.html
http://wicket.apache.org/wicket13/wicket-extensions/dependencies.html
http://wicket.apache.org/wicket13/wicket-extensions/source-repository.html
http://wicket.apache.org/wicket13/wicket-extensions/apidocs
http://wicket.apache.org/wicket13/wicket-datetime
http://wicket.apache.org/wicket13/wicket-datetime/index.html
etc.
Martijn
On 9/9/07, Johan Maasing <jm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A maven archetype is really helpful and the quickstart guide is good
> but for me personally I would rather see the documentation
> restructured a bit. The thing I miss is a small text explaining what
> the different JAR-files actually contain. Something like this (pardon
> my english, it is not my native language):
>
> Introduction
> -----------------
> To build a wicket web application you need to understand the
> WAR-format and what the web.xml is. "Introduction on Java web
> applications" A must read for anyone developing web applications with
> Java. We presume you know this before you start working with Wicket.
>
> Quick start
> ----------------
> The following JAR-files are the minimum needed in WEB-INF/lib to
> developa a wicket application:
> * wicket-1.3.0-beta3.jar
> * slf4j-api-1.4.2.jar
> * slf4j-jdk14-1.4.2.jar
>
> Maven
> ---------
> If you use maven (http://maven.apache.org/) which the wicket project
> uses there is an arcehtype that can get you up to speed quickly. See
> http://wicket.apache.org/quickstart.html
>
> That's it, now go kick the tires!
>
> More features of wicket
> ----------------------------------
> * wicket-auth-roles-1.3.0-beta3.jar -
> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/acegi-and-wicket-auth-roles.html
> * wicket-datetime-1.3.0-beta3.jar - ???
> * wicket-extensions-1.3.0-beta3.jar - More components...
> * wicket-ioc-1.3.0-beta3.jar - ???
> * wicket-guice-1.3.0-beta3.jar - Integration with the Guice IoC container
> * wicket-jmx-1.3.0-beta3.jar - ???
> * wicket-objectsizeof-agent-1.3.0-beta3.jar - ???
> * wicket-spring-1.3.0-beta3.jar - http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/spring.html
> * wicket-spring-annot-1.3.0-beta3.jar - ???
> * wicket-velocity-1.3.0-beta3.jar - ???
>
>
>
> On 9/8/07, Gwyn Evans <gw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 8, 2007, 2:00:32 PM, Johan <jm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Sure, there is nothing special about Ant and wicket is very easy to
> > > set up and the dependencies needed are kind of explained somewhere.
> > > But I keep seing requests for information from newbies (such as
> > > myself) answered with maven command lines or "look at the source".
> >
> > Well, that's part of the reason that we've created the Maven Archetype
> > for QuickStart and documented it at http://wicket.apache.org/quickstart.html.
> >
> > While we've got nothing against anyone creating a "Wicket and Ant"
> > page on the Wiki, if users aren't able to either install Maven to use
> > the Archetype or take the downloads we supply and use them in Ant
> > without it all done for them, then to my mind, there's a significant
> > danger that the level of OO coding required to use Wicket might be
> > problematic for them...
> >
> > /Gwyn
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >
> >
>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Johan Maasing <jm...@gmail.com>.
A maven archetype is really helpful and the quickstart guide is good
but for me personally I would rather see the documentation
restructured a bit. The thing I miss is a small text explaining what
the different JAR-files actually contain. Something like this (pardon
my english, it is not my native language):
Introduction
-----------------
To build a wicket web application you need to understand the
WAR-format and what the web.xml is. "Introduction on Java web
applications" A must read for anyone developing web applications with
Java. We presume you know this before you start working with Wicket.
Quick start
----------------
The following JAR-files are the minimum needed in WEB-INF/lib to
developa a wicket application:
* wicket-1.3.0-beta3.jar
* slf4j-api-1.4.2.jar
* slf4j-jdk14-1.4.2.jar
Maven
---------
If you use maven (http://maven.apache.org/) which the wicket project
uses there is an arcehtype that can get you up to speed quickly. See
http://wicket.apache.org/quickstart.html
That's it, now go kick the tires!
More features of wicket
----------------------------------
* wicket-auth-roles-1.3.0-beta3.jar -
http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/acegi-and-wicket-auth-roles.html
* wicket-datetime-1.3.0-beta3.jar - ???
* wicket-extensions-1.3.0-beta3.jar - More components...
* wicket-ioc-1.3.0-beta3.jar - ???
* wicket-guice-1.3.0-beta3.jar - Integration with the Guice IoC container
* wicket-jmx-1.3.0-beta3.jar - ???
* wicket-objectsizeof-agent-1.3.0-beta3.jar - ???
* wicket-spring-1.3.0-beta3.jar - http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/spring.html
* wicket-spring-annot-1.3.0-beta3.jar - ???
* wicket-velocity-1.3.0-beta3.jar - ???
On 9/8/07, Gwyn Evans <gw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, September 8, 2007, 2:00:32 PM, Johan <jm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Sure, there is nothing special about Ant and wicket is very easy to
> > set up and the dependencies needed are kind of explained somewhere.
> > But I keep seing requests for information from newbies (such as
> > myself) answered with maven command lines or "look at the source".
>
> Well, that's part of the reason that we've created the Maven Archetype
> for QuickStart and documented it at http://wicket.apache.org/quickstart.html.
>
> While we've got nothing against anyone creating a "Wicket and Ant"
> page on the Wiki, if users aren't able to either install Maven to use
> the Archetype or take the downloads we supply and use them in Ant
> without it all done for them, then to my mind, there's a significant
> danger that the level of OO coding required to use Wicket might be
> problematic for them...
>
> /Gwyn
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Gwyn Evans <gw...@gmail.com>.
On Saturday, September 8, 2007, 2:00:32 PM, Johan <jm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sure, there is nothing special about Ant and wicket is very easy to
> set up and the dependencies needed are kind of explained somewhere.
> But I keep seing requests for information from newbies (such as
> myself) answered with maven command lines or "look at the source".
Well, that's part of the reason that we've created the Maven Archetype
for QuickStart and documented it at http://wicket.apache.org/quickstart.html.
While we've got nothing against anyone creating a "Wicket and Ant"
page on the Wiki, if users aren't able to either install Maven to use
the Archetype or take the downloads we supply and use them in Ant
without it all done for them, then to my mind, there's a significant
danger that the level of OO coding required to use Wicket might be
problematic for them...
/Gwyn
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Johan Maasing <jm...@gmail.com>.
Sure, there is nothing special about Ant and wicket is very easy to
set up and the dependencies needed are kind of explained somewhere.
But I keep seing requests for information from newbies (such as
myself) answered with maven command lines or "look at the source".
Perhaps there is need for a FAQ linked from the wicket home page. Yes
I have seen the FAQ buried in the wiki but:
"What is the meaning of life, the universe and everything?" isn't all
that helpful.
On 9/8/07, Al Maw <wi...@almaw.com> wrote:
> chickabee wrote:
> > Thanks for the great idea.
>
> Note that this is displayed fairly prominently on the web site at
> http://wicket.apache.org under "QuickStart".
>
> > It believe it will be good to put a few of the examples application in
> > their own folders and war files so that they can be studied independently
> > without the clutter of 20 projects.
>
> We used to have this, however, grouping all the examples into one
> project has several big advantages:
>
> - Getting all the examples running in your IDE is much easier.
> - We don't have ten extra projects to manage the build files for.
> - We can easily link to all the examples from a single page.
>
> > Another thing I notice is that maven is the default build tool used for
> > wicket, I guess it will be good to provide the ant build.xml, just in case
> > someone does not want full maven features.
>
> I think we need to write a page on this on the web site that we can send
> people to. ;-)
>
> An Ant build for Wicket isn't special. If you don't know how to use Ant,
> it's not our job to show you. There are no magic custom Ant tasks we
> provide, or JSP pre-compilation steps, or anything like that. All you
> need is to compile your app with the necessary dependencies, just like
> any other Java app. You'll also need your web.xml, etc. just like any
> other Java web app. Nothing special here.
>
> Regards,
>
> Al
>
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>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Luke Taylor <ne...@freesurf.ch>.
The problem with wicket is that you guys are all far too diplomatic...
:)
Al Maw wrote:
> ...
--
Luke Taylor. Monkey Machine Ltd.
PGP Key ID: 0x57E9523C http://www.monkeymachine.ltd.uk
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Al Maw <wi...@almaw.com>.
chickabee wrote:
> Once you are out in the market to try the new webapps then it always makes
> sense to have people be able to get up and running on the basics w/o efforts
> and not to have to deal with tricks necessary to get basic app to work.
I absolutely agree.
Install Maven 2 (takes five minutes, there's a readme on their site, etc.).
Create your own new Wicket project using the Maven 2 archetype and
import it into any of the three major Java IDEs and run it (takes five
minutes, instructions prominently placed on the Wicket web site).
Optionally compile the examples and have a play (takes another five
minutes, and we even host these live on http://wicketstuff.org/wicket13,
linked from the Wicket home page, so you don't need to bother if you
just want to have a poke around).
> A common expectation is a simple standalone app without
> Maven/Spring/Hibernate etc unnecessary stuff. Run 'ant' on the command line
> and here u have the war file, now, make a few changes to experiment and
> then run 'ant' again to have modified war. Simple.
We support extremely quick set-up and configuration using Maven 2, which
has superior functionality via its eclipse, idea and netbeans plug-ins
for initial set-up with minimal effort, and templating for extremely
quick and easy quick-start of a Wicket project with the appropriate
web.xml, etc.
If we make you use Ant instead, there will be just as many people who
complain that they want to use Maven. It will also be less powerful and
not really any easier. People would still have to look up the ant task
names we'd used and would ask questions about that instead, and want to
know how to manage the dependencies using Ivy, and all the rest of it.
> Obviously the current example is for the comfort of wicket creators and not
> for the comfort of prospective users and that is the problem here.
We're expecting you to do _FIVE_MINUTES_ extra work here installing
Maven 2. The Wicket developers have put in thousands and thousands of
hours of work for you to build on, for free. Yes, we want our lives to
be easier. Do you see why I think you're being more than a little
unreasonable here?
If you're a sufficiently experienced developer to have tried Maven 2 and
found it not to your taste, that's fine. But that shouldn't stop you
from using it to set up an evaluation project and make having a play
with Wicket nice and easy. As mentioned in other threads, there are
other options if you don't want to use it in your production build
environment.
We provide easy-to-follow ten-minute set-up instructions to get you
quickly started with Wicket. Much effort has been put in to make sure
this is nice and easy. Like Robo, you are choosing to ignore the large
path we have beaten for you and then complaining that you're lost in the
forest with no map.
I'm all for improvements driven by the us
> Any one with basic common sense will get this up and running after a day's
> tinkering around, but that can be avoided by adding simple things here in
> the examples, that is the point I am trying to sell here only if there are
> buyers out there with open mind.
If it takes you a day to install Maven 2 and follow four lines of
instructions on a prominently-linked web page...
Regards,
Al
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Igor Vaynberg <ig...@gmail.com>.
On 9/8/07, chickabee <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> A common expectation is a simple standalone app without
> Maven/Spring/Hibernate etc unnecessary stuff. Run 'ant' on the command
> line
> and here u have the war file, now, make a few changes to experiment and
> then run 'ant' again to have modified war. Simple.
heh, so a standalone project can require ant and still be standalone? great
logic there. i dont think i even have ant installed.
btw, the whole point of qwicket was to provide a base project that glues
together hibernate+spring+wicket. maybe you shouldve read the readme of
qwicket.
-igor
AW: DatePicker style in old Wicket 2.0
Posted by Stefan Lindner <li...@visionet.de>.
Problem is solved with a workaround. Thank you all.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Stefan Lindner [mailto:lindner@visionet.de]
Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. September 2007 12:26
An: users@wicket.apache.org
Betreff: RE: DatePicker style in old Wicket 2.0
I hope my css is loaded after the DatePicker css. When I override some styles of other wicket components (e.G. TabPanel) the changes take effect. Only the DatePicker is not affected. The DatePicker component seems to use it's default css because I did not specify any DatePicker css in my page header.
How can I control the order of css loading?
Regard
Stefan
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Martijn Dashorst [mailto:martijn.dashorst@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. September 2007 11:59
An: users@wicket.apache.org
Betreff: Re: DatePicker style in old Wicket 2.0
Is your stylesheet loaded after the datepicker sheet?
Martijn
On 9/9/07, Stefan Lindner <li...@visionet.de> wrote:
> Der wicket wizzards,
>
> how can I modify the look (e.g. the font-size) of the DatePicker popup
> js-component? I try to override the css class (.calendar) in my own
> css but this has no effect.
>
> Html-code like
>
> <head>
> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"
> href="MyOwnCalendarStyle.css"/>
> </head>
>
> MyOwnCalendarStyle.css like
>
> .calendar {
> font-size:20px;
> }
> .calendar table {
> font-size:20px;
> }
>
>
> Can anybody help me?
>
> Regards, Stefan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
--
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RE: DatePicker style in old Wicket 2.0
Posted by Stefan Lindner <li...@visionet.de>.
I hope my css is loaded after the DatePicker css. When I override some styles of other wicket components (e.G. TabPanel) the changes take effect. Only the DatePicker is not affected. The DatePicker component seems to use it's default css because I did not specify any DatePicker css in my page header.
How can I control the order of css loading?
Regard
Stefan
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Martijn Dashorst [mailto:martijn.dashorst@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Sonntag, 9. September 2007 11:59
An: users@wicket.apache.org
Betreff: Re: DatePicker style in old Wicket 2.0
Is your stylesheet loaded after the datepicker sheet?
Martijn
On 9/9/07, Stefan Lindner <li...@visionet.de> wrote:
> Der wicket wizzards,
>
> how can I modify the look (e.g. the font-size) of the DatePicker popup
> js-component? I try to override the css class (.calendar) in my own
> css but this has no effect.
>
> Html-code like
>
> <head>
> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"
> href="MyOwnCalendarStyle.css"/>
> </head>
>
> MyOwnCalendarStyle.css like
>
> .calendar {
> font-size:20px;
> }
> .calendar table {
> font-size:20px;
> }
>
>
> Can anybody help me?
>
> Regards, Stefan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
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Re: DatePicker style in old Wicket 2.0
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
Is your stylesheet loaded after the datepicker sheet?
Martijn
On 9/9/07, Stefan Lindner <li...@visionet.de> wrote:
> Der wicket wizzards,
>
> how can I modify the look (e.g. the font-size) of the DatePicker popup
> js-component? I try to override the css class (.calendar) in my own css
> but this has no effect.
>
> Html-code like
>
> <head>
> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"
> href="MyOwnCalendarStyle.css"/>
> </head>
>
> MyOwnCalendarStyle.css like
>
> .calendar {
> font-size:20px;
> }
> .calendar table {
> font-size:20px;
> }
>
>
> Can anybody help me?
>
> Regards, Stefan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
--
Buy Wicket in Action: http://manning.com/dashorst
Apache Wicket 1.3.0-beta3 is released
Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3.0-beta3/
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DatePicker style in old Wicket 2.0
Posted by Stefan Lindner <li...@visionet.de>.
Der wicket wizzards,
how can I modify the look (e.g. the font-size) of the DatePicker popup
js-component? I try to override the css class (.calendar) in my own css
but this has no effect.
Html-code like
<head>
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"
href="MyOwnCalendarStyle.css"/>
</head>
MyOwnCalendarStyle.css like
.calendar {
font-size:20px;
}
.calendar table {
font-size:20px;
}
Can anybody help me?
Regards, Stefan
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Jon Laidler <zo...@ozemail.com.au>.
Totally agree.
I like to understand what is going on so I created a 'sandbox' type project
in Netbeans, manually referenced the wicket libraries, created the
application and webpage class with related HTML, and the Web.xml. I was up
and running in under an hour. The application runs on Tomcat with iBatis and
mySQL - nothing fancy no Jetty, Hibernate.
My process of learning the framework is again simple. Add pages to the
'sandbox ' application and add components to the page that I want to
learn/play with. Before I knew it I had working examples of most of the
Wicket components with Java code I had written and understood.
I like Wicket. I have the greatest respect for the developers who devote
their time to giving us a worthwhile framework, and to the Wicket community
who are always willing to help.
My advice is to build an application manually, the information is on the
Wiki and in many blogs (just Google it). Read the book 'Pro-Wicket' and sign
up to the Manning MEAPs version of 'Wicket In Action'
Ryan Holmes wrote:
>
> Funny, one of the things I remember being really impressed with when
> I set up my first Wicket (1.2) app was how incredibly easy it was:
>
> 1.) Add wicket jars
> 2.) Write "hello world" home page
> 3.) Write WebApplication subclass and specify home page
> 4.) Map servlet in web.xml
> 5.) Hit "run" button in Eclipse w/WTP (or whatever your tools of
> choice are)
>
> I figured all that out from this obscure page on the wiki: http://
> cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/newuserguide.html#Newuserguide-
> MyFirstApplication
>
> Of course, most people would never guess that a page entitled "My
> First Application" in the New User Guide might hold the information a
> new user would need when writing their first Wicket application, so
> perhaps Wicket is only intended for really, really smart people.
>
> -Ryan
>
> On Sep 8, 2007, at 6:06 AM, chickabee wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks for providing me the primer on web applications and Ant and
>> for not
>> trying to understand what point I am trying to make here.
>>
>> Yes, we are not dealing with nuclear science here and Yes again
>> wicket is
>> just another web application, Did someone disagree with that. I
>> hope not.
>>
>> Once you are out in the market to try the new webapps then it
>> always makes
>> sense to have people be able to get up and running on the basics w/
>> o efforts
>> and not to have to deal with tricks necessary to get basic app to
>> work.
>>
>> A common expectation is a simple standalone app without
>> Maven/Spring/Hibernate etc unnecessary stuff. Run 'ant' on the
>> command line
>> and here u have the war file, now, make a few changes to
>> experiment and
>> then run 'ant' again to have modified war. Simple.
>>
>> Obviously the current example is for the comfort of wicket creators
>> and not
>> for the comfort of prospective users and that is the problem here.
>>
>> Any one with basic common sense will get this up and running after
>> a day's
>> tinkering around, but that can be avoided by adding simple things
>> here in
>> the examples, that is the point I am trying to sell here only if
>> there are
>> buyers out there with open mind.
>>
>>
>> ========================================
>>
>> Al Maw wrote:
>>>
>>> chickabee wrote:
>>>> Thanks for the great idea.
>>>
>>> Note that this is displayed fairly prominently on the web site at
>>> http://wicket.apache.org under "QuickStart".
>>>
>>>> It believe it will be good to put a few of the examples
>>>> application in
>>>> their own folders and war files so that they can be studied
>>>> independently
>>>> without the clutter of 20 projects.
>>>
>>> We used to have this, however, grouping all the examples into one
>>> project has several big advantages:
>>>
>>> - Getting all the examples running in your IDE is much easier.
>>> - We don't have ten extra projects to manage the build files for.
>>> - We can easily link to all the examples from a single page.
>>>
>>>> Another thing I notice is that maven is the default build tool
>>>> used for
>>>> wicket, I guess it will be good to provide the ant build.xml,
>>>> just in
>>>> case
>>>> someone does not want full maven features.
>>>
>>> I think we need to write a page on this on the web site that we
>>> can send
>>> people to. ;-)
>>>
>>> An Ant build for Wicket isn't special. If you don't know how to
>>> use Ant,
>>> it's not our job to show you. There are no magic custom Ant tasks we
>>> provide, or JSP pre-compilation steps, or anything like that. All you
>>> need is to compile your app with the necessary dependencies, just
>>> like
>>> any other Java app. You'll also need your web.xml, etc. just like any
>>> other Java web app. Nothing special here.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Al
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/First-Day-
>> Disgust%21-tf4405663.html#a12569457
>> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Ryan Holmes <ry...@hyperstep.com>.
Funny, one of the things I remember being really impressed with when
I set up my first Wicket (1.2) app was how incredibly easy it was:
1.) Add wicket jars
2.) Write "hello world" home page
3.) Write WebApplication subclass and specify home page
4.) Map servlet in web.xml
5.) Hit "run" button in Eclipse w/WTP (or whatever your tools of
choice are)
I figured all that out from this obscure page on the wiki: http://
cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/newuserguide.html#Newuserguide-
MyFirstApplication
Of course, most people would never guess that a page entitled "My
First Application" in the New User Guide might hold the information a
new user would need when writing their first Wicket application, so
perhaps Wicket is only intended for really, really smart people.
-Ryan
On Sep 8, 2007, at 6:06 AM, chickabee wrote:
>
> Thanks for providing me the primer on web applications and Ant and
> for not
> trying to understand what point I am trying to make here.
>
> Yes, we are not dealing with nuclear science here and Yes again
> wicket is
> just another web application, Did someone disagree with that. I
> hope not.
>
> Once you are out in the market to try the new webapps then it
> always makes
> sense to have people be able to get up and running on the basics w/
> o efforts
> and not to have to deal with tricks necessary to get basic app to
> work.
>
> A common expectation is a simple standalone app without
> Maven/Spring/Hibernate etc unnecessary stuff. Run 'ant' on the
> command line
> and here u have the war file, now, make a few changes to
> experiment and
> then run 'ant' again to have modified war. Simple.
>
> Obviously the current example is for the comfort of wicket creators
> and not
> for the comfort of prospective users and that is the problem here.
>
> Any one with basic common sense will get this up and running after
> a day's
> tinkering around, but that can be avoided by adding simple things
> here in
> the examples, that is the point I am trying to sell here only if
> there are
> buyers out there with open mind.
>
>
> ========================================
>
> Al Maw wrote:
>>
>> chickabee wrote:
>>> Thanks for the great idea.
>>
>> Note that this is displayed fairly prominently on the web site at
>> http://wicket.apache.org under "QuickStart".
>>
>>> It believe it will be good to put a few of the examples
>>> application in
>>> their own folders and war files so that they can be studied
>>> independently
>>> without the clutter of 20 projects.
>>
>> We used to have this, however, grouping all the examples into one
>> project has several big advantages:
>>
>> - Getting all the examples running in your IDE is much easier.
>> - We don't have ten extra projects to manage the build files for.
>> - We can easily link to all the examples from a single page.
>>
>>> Another thing I notice is that maven is the default build tool
>>> used for
>>> wicket, I guess it will be good to provide the ant build.xml,
>>> just in
>>> case
>>> someone does not want full maven features.
>>
>> I think we need to write a page on this on the web site that we
>> can send
>> people to. ;-)
>>
>> An Ant build for Wicket isn't special. If you don't know how to
>> use Ant,
>> it's not our job to show you. There are no magic custom Ant tasks we
>> provide, or JSP pre-compilation steps, or anything like that. All you
>> need is to compile your app with the necessary dependencies, just
>> like
>> any other Java app. You'll also need your web.xml, etc. just like any
>> other Java web app. Nothing special here.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Al
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/First-Day-
> Disgust%21-tf4405663.html#a12569457
> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by chickabee <ja...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for providing me the primer on web applications and Ant and for not
trying to understand what point I am trying to make here.
Yes, we are not dealing with nuclear science here and Yes again wicket is
just another web application, Did someone disagree with that. I hope not.
Once you are out in the market to try the new webapps then it always makes
sense to have people be able to get up and running on the basics w/o efforts
and not to have to deal with tricks necessary to get basic app to work.
A common expectation is a simple standalone app without
Maven/Spring/Hibernate etc unnecessary stuff. Run 'ant' on the command line
and here u have the war file, now, make a few changes to experiment and
then run 'ant' again to have modified war. Simple.
Obviously the current example is for the comfort of wicket creators and not
for the comfort of prospective users and that is the problem here.
Any one with basic common sense will get this up and running after a day's
tinkering around, but that can be avoided by adding simple things here in
the examples, that is the point I am trying to sell here only if there are
buyers out there with open mind.
========================================
Al Maw wrote:
>
> chickabee wrote:
>> Thanks for the great idea.
>
> Note that this is displayed fairly prominently on the web site at
> http://wicket.apache.org under "QuickStart".
>
>> It believe it will be good to put a few of the examples application in
>> their own folders and war files so that they can be studied independently
>> without the clutter of 20 projects.
>
> We used to have this, however, grouping all the examples into one
> project has several big advantages:
>
> - Getting all the examples running in your IDE is much easier.
> - We don't have ten extra projects to manage the build files for.
> - We can easily link to all the examples from a single page.
>
>> Another thing I notice is that maven is the default build tool used for
>> wicket, I guess it will be good to provide the ant build.xml, just in
>> case
>> someone does not want full maven features.
>
> I think we need to write a page on this on the web site that we can send
> people to. ;-)
>
> An Ant build for Wicket isn't special. If you don't know how to use Ant,
> it's not our job to show you. There are no magic custom Ant tasks we
> provide, or JSP pre-compilation steps, or anything like that. All you
> need is to compile your app with the necessary dependencies, just like
> any other Java app. You'll also need your web.xml, etc. just like any
> other Java web app. Nothing special here.
>
> Regards,
>
> Al
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Al Maw <wi...@almaw.com>.
chickabee wrote:
> Thanks for the great idea.
Note that this is displayed fairly prominently on the web site at
http://wicket.apache.org under "QuickStart".
> It believe it will be good to put a few of the examples application in
> their own folders and war files so that they can be studied independently
> without the clutter of 20 projects.
We used to have this, however, grouping all the examples into one
project has several big advantages:
- Getting all the examples running in your IDE is much easier.
- We don't have ten extra projects to manage the build files for.
- We can easily link to all the examples from a single page.
> Another thing I notice is that maven is the default build tool used for
> wicket, I guess it will be good to provide the ant build.xml, just in case
> someone does not want full maven features.
I think we need to write a page on this on the web site that we can send
people to. ;-)
An Ant build for Wicket isn't special. If you don't know how to use Ant,
it's not our job to show you. There are no magic custom Ant tasks we
provide, or JSP pre-compilation steps, or anything like that. All you
need is to compile your app with the necessary dependencies, just like
any other Java app. You'll also need your web.xml, etc. just like any
other Java web app. Nothing special here.
Regards,
Al
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About the QuickStart (was Re: First Day Disgust!)
Posted by Gwyn Evans <gw...@gmail.com>.
On Sunday, September 9, 2007, 8:55:35 AM, chickabee <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I looked into Maven and did all the Quick-Start exercise, I have the
> application up and running using Maven. Quick Start has following obvious
> flaws:
> 1. It is based on Maven. (I am not apache community with 25 projects running
> in parallel, I just want to make a small app using wicket. Maven is
> overkill).
Really? I assume you're suggesting Ant as an alternative - Why don't
you try documenting the steps you'd need to download the various
jars and requirements and see which is simpler.
No cheating by saying 'download a complete meta jar', as we don't
want the extra work and legal issues involved in trying to
redistribute third-party apps. You can/should avoid having the user
re-download any jars that they might have used in other projects
built with the same tool though.
Remember your goal is to be simpler than "1) Install Maven, 2)
Create project via "mvn archetype ...", 3) Build & run project via
"mvn jetty:run".
> 2. It favors Jetty. ( Why even say Jetty, pom.xml has jetty dependencies
> defined. )
It includes a support class under src/test/java to help with
debugging the web-app via an embedded Jetty instance, true. There's
nothing that favours Jetty apart from that dedicated support class
in the QuickStart, though.
> 3. It depends on log4j. (Newer JDK have all the logging features needed. )
The specific dependency in use in Wicket generally is actually the
SLF4J framework, which allows/requires the end-user to choose the
actual logging implementation. For the QuickStart we used log4j, as
most developers would be familiar with it but it's trivial to change
- you do have to choose something, though.
> 4. Advises the user to follow test driven development. (I want to be a bad
> developer, is that okay?).
No comment...
> All above default integrations and suggestions are unnecessary and undermine
> Wicket and make it less appealing to Non-Wicketers and possible adopters of
> this great phenomenon.
Without them, you don't get a running application with a 3 steps,
one of which being to install Maven, which is the critical bit to
convince people that yes, it /is/ that simple to get started!
/Gwyn
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Igor Vaynberg <ig...@gmail.com>.
On 9/9/07, chickabee <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> 1. It is based on Maven. (I am not apache community with 25 projects
> running
> in parallel, I just want to make a small app using wicket. Maven is
> overkill).
so write a quick ant script. the generated project itself has no
dependencies on maven
2. It favors Jetty. ( Why even say Jetty, pom.xml has jetty dependencies
> defined. )
notice they are scoped "test", so not required at deploy time. the great
thing about jetty is this: you can quickly get your app running using mvn
jetty:jetty command if you want. but even better, when developing you dont
need to package your app into a war and deploy it - which are big time
wasting steps when you have to do them every ten minutes. instead simply
launch the included Start class and your app is up and running in seconds
and includes hotswap.
3. It depends on log4j. (Newer JDK have all the logging features needed. )
we prefer log4j because it is more flexible then jdklogging, but this is a
religious issue. all you have to do is remove the log4j jar and its slf4j
equivalent and dropin the slf4j jdk log impl jar.
4. Advises the user to follow test driven development. (I want to be a bad
> developer, is that okay?).
huh?
> All above default integrations and suggestions are unnecessary and
> undermine
> Wicket and make it less appealing to Non-Wicketers and possible adopters
> of
> this great phenomenon.
you know, you are the first who seem to think that, ever. most new users
find themselves at home with the project and dependencies quickstart
generates.
-igor
This is not the responsibility of the Wicket
> community to tell people what they should use or should not use. It is the
> decision of wicket end user if they want to integrate wicket with a
> double-cheese-burger :-) then let them do it on their own, but certainly
> Quick Start rather be as rudimentary as possible, take it as a marketing
> trick to entice the people to use wicket and make them fall in love with
> wicket at first sight.
>
> Thank you all for listening.
>
> ===============================================
>
>
> Craig Tataryn wrote:
> >
> > FYI Chickabee, if you are using Netbeans and use the Wicket plugin it is
> > bundled with some helpful sample apps.
> >
> > Craig.
> >
> > On 9/8/07, chickabee <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks for the great idea.
> >>
> >> It believe it will be good to put a few of the examples application in
> >> their own folders and war files so that they can be studied
> independently
> >> without the clutter of 20 projects.
> >>
> >> Another thing I notice is that maven is the default build tool used
> for
> >> wicket, I guess it will be good to provide the ant build.xml, just in
> >> case
> >> someone does not want full maven features.
> >>
> >> ---------------
> >>
> >>
> >> David Bernard-2 wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Welcome,
> >> >
> >> > If you want to start a blank project, try:
> >> >
> >> > $ mvn archetype:create -DarchetypeGroupId=org.apache.wicket
> >> > -DarchetypeArtifactId=wicket-archetype-quickstart
> >> > -DarchetypeVersion=1.3.0-beta3
> >> > -DgroupId=com.mycompany
> >> > -DartifactId=myproject
> >> > $ cd myproject
> >> > $ more pom.xml
> >> >
> >> > then in this project try (copy/paste) the samples from the website.
> >> >
> >> > /david
> >> >
> >> > chickabee wrote:
> >> >> Hi Wicketers,
> >> >>
> >> >> I tried wicket today and the example application was up and running
> on
> >> >> tomcat in no time, so that was the good part, after that if I like
> to
> >> >> create
> >> >> a sample application on my own then I found no easy way to start.
> >> >>
> >> >> Examples are good to browse through and tell about wicket
> >> capabilities,
> >> >> however, not so good from learning point of view, All of the
> examples
> >> >> are
> >> >> glued together in one big jar file and it is just not quick enough
> to
> >> >> create
> >> >> a bare-bone application quickly and easily,
> >> >>
> >> >> I tried Quicket as mentioned in the readme file, however, Quickets
> is
> >> >> nothing but waste of time, because it is glued with Hibernate and
> >> Spring
> >> >> and
> >> >> both should not be there to start with.
> >> >>
> >> >> Not a good experience trying wicket so far, I guess it's the time to
> >> try
> >> >> out
> >> >> some more simpler app frameworks,
> >> >>
> >> >> -Thumbs Down to Wicket!
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> >> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> View this message in context:
> >> http://www.nabble.com/First-Day-Disgust%21-tf4405663.html#a12569195
> >> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/First-Day-Disgust%21-tf4405663.html#a12576738
> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Alex Objelean <al...@isdc.ro>.
My point was to show you an alternative to Jetty plugin.
chickabee wrote:
>
>>>It is absurd. You can deploy your web application wherever you want.
>
> Thanks for explaining the most esoteric aspect of web applications.
> Perhaps no one knew it so far :-) . Well, it's not your fault either
> since this thread has grown out of proportions, and it's not easy to read
> all message.
>
>
>
> Alex Objelean wrote:
>>
>> It is absurd. You can deploy your web application wherever you want.
>> I use Merve Eclipse plugin. It has the same benefits as Jetty, as you do
>> not need to deploy your war for each modification, you just push the
>> start button and it works (by inspecting the classpath of the projects
>> involved). Or use maven to build the war for you, then copy it manually
>> to tomcat or jboss or whatever... Or use ant (if you like it so much) to
>> do the same thing.
>>
>> Alex.
>>
>>
>> chickabee wrote:
>>>
>>> 2. It favors Jetty. ( Why even say Jetty, pom.xml has jetty dependencies
>>> defined. )
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by chickabee <ja...@gmail.com>.
>>It is absurd. You can deploy your web application wherever you want.
Thanks for explaining the most esoteric aspect of web applications. Perhaps
no one knew it so far :-) . Well, it's not your fault either since this
thread has grown out of proportions, and it's not easy to read all message.
Alex Objelean wrote:
>
> It is absurd. You can deploy your web application wherever you want.
> I use Merve Eclipse plugin. It has the same benefits as Jetty, as you do
> not need to deploy your war for each modification, you just push the start
> button and it works (by inspecting the classpath of the projects
> involved). Or use maven to build the war for you, then copy it manually to
> tomcat or jboss or whatever... Or use ant (if you like it so much) to do
> the same thing.
>
> Alex.
>
>
> chickabee wrote:
>>
>> 2. It favors Jetty. ( Why even say Jetty, pom.xml has jetty dependencies
>> defined. )
>>
>
>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Alex Objelean <al...@isdc.ro>.
It is absurd. You can deploy your web application wherever you want.
I use Merve Eclipse plugin. It has the same benefits as Jetty, as you do not
need to deploy your war for each modification, you just push the start
button and it works (by inspecting the classpath of the projects involved).
Or use maven to build the war for you, then copy it manually to tomcat or
jboss or whatever... Or use ant (if you like it so much) to do the same
thing.
Alex.
chickabee wrote:
>
> 2. It favors Jetty. ( Why even say Jetty, pom.xml has jetty dependencies
> defined. )
>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by chickabee <ja...@gmail.com>.
Hi Wicketers,
No doubt you guys are a vibrant community. It was nice listening to all the
rant and raves and jitters and it is even more exciting to see some positive
action on this small but important issue.
I am for Wicket, so I criticized it to make it even more widely adaptable,
because wicket is a well thought out web framework.
I looked into Maven and did all the Quick-Start exercise, I have the
application up and running using Maven. Quick Start has following obvious
flaws:
1. It is based on Maven. (I am not apache community with 25 projects running
in parallel, I just want to make a small app using wicket. Maven is
overkill).
2. It favors Jetty. ( Why even say Jetty, pom.xml has jetty dependencies
defined. )
3. It depends on log4j. (Newer JDK have all the logging features needed. )
4. Advises the user to follow test driven development. (I want to be a bad
developer, is that okay?).
All above default integrations and suggestions are unnecessary and undermine
Wicket and make it less appealing to Non-Wicketers and possible adopters of
this great phenomenon. This is not the responsibility of the Wicket
community to tell people what they should use or should not use. It is the
decision of wicket end user if they want to integrate wicket with a
double-cheese-burger :-) then let them do it on their own, but certainly
Quick Start rather be as rudimentary as possible, take it as a marketing
trick to entice the people to use wicket and make them fall in love with
wicket at first sight.
Thank you all for listening.
===============================================
Craig Tataryn wrote:
>
> FYI Chickabee, if you are using Netbeans and use the Wicket plugin it is
> bundled with some helpful sample apps.
>
> Craig.
>
> On 9/8/07, chickabee <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the great idea.
>>
>> It believe it will be good to put a few of the examples application in
>> their own folders and war files so that they can be studied independently
>> without the clutter of 20 projects.
>>
>> Another thing I notice is that maven is the default build tool used for
>> wicket, I guess it will be good to provide the ant build.xml, just in
>> case
>> someone does not want full maven features.
>>
>> ---------------
>>
>>
>> David Bernard-2 wrote:
>> >
>> > Welcome,
>> >
>> > If you want to start a blank project, try:
>> >
>> > $ mvn archetype:create -DarchetypeGroupId=org.apache.wicket
>> > -DarchetypeArtifactId=wicket-archetype-quickstart
>> > -DarchetypeVersion=1.3.0-beta3
>> > -DgroupId=com.mycompany
>> > -DartifactId=myproject
>> > $ cd myproject
>> > $ more pom.xml
>> >
>> > then in this project try (copy/paste) the samples from the website.
>> >
>> > /david
>> >
>> > chickabee wrote:
>> >> Hi Wicketers,
>> >>
>> >> I tried wicket today and the example application was up and running on
>> >> tomcat in no time, so that was the good part, after that if I like to
>> >> create
>> >> a sample application on my own then I found no easy way to start.
>> >>
>> >> Examples are good to browse through and tell about wicket
>> capabilities,
>> >> however, not so good from learning point of view, All of the examples
>> >> are
>> >> glued together in one big jar file and it is just not quick enough to
>> >> create
>> >> a bare-bone application quickly and easily,
>> >>
>> >> I tried Quicket as mentioned in the readme file, however, Quickets is
>> >> nothing but waste of time, because it is glued with Hibernate and
>> Spring
>> >> and
>> >> both should not be there to start with.
>> >>
>> >> Not a good experience trying wicket so far, I guess it's the time to
>> try
>> >> out
>> >> some more simpler app frameworks,
>> >>
>> >> -Thumbs Down to Wicket!
>> >>
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://www.nabble.com/First-Day-Disgust%21-tf4405663.html#a12569195
>> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Craig Tataryn <cr...@tataryn.net>.
FYI Chickabee, if you are using Netbeans and use the Wicket plugin it is
bundled with some helpful sample apps.
Craig.
On 9/8/07, chickabee <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the great idea.
>
> It believe it will be good to put a few of the examples application in
> their own folders and war files so that they can be studied independently
> without the clutter of 20 projects.
>
> Another thing I notice is that maven is the default build tool used for
> wicket, I guess it will be good to provide the ant build.xml, just in case
> someone does not want full maven features.
>
> ---------------
>
>
> David Bernard-2 wrote:
> >
> > Welcome,
> >
> > If you want to start a blank project, try:
> >
> > $ mvn archetype:create -DarchetypeGroupId=org.apache.wicket
> > -DarchetypeArtifactId=wicket-archetype-quickstart
> > -DarchetypeVersion=1.3.0-beta3
> > -DgroupId=com.mycompany
> > -DartifactId=myproject
> > $ cd myproject
> > $ more pom.xml
> >
> > then in this project try (copy/paste) the samples from the website.
> >
> > /david
> >
> > chickabee wrote:
> >> Hi Wicketers,
> >>
> >> I tried wicket today and the example application was up and running on
> >> tomcat in no time, so that was the good part, after that if I like to
> >> create
> >> a sample application on my own then I found no easy way to start.
> >>
> >> Examples are good to browse through and tell about wicket capabilities,
> >> however, not so good from learning point of view, All of the examples
> >> are
> >> glued together in one big jar file and it is just not quick enough to
> >> create
> >> a bare-bone application quickly and easily,
> >>
> >> I tried Quicket as mentioned in the readme file, however, Quickets is
> >> nothing but waste of time, because it is glued with Hibernate and
> Spring
> >> and
> >> both should not be there to start with.
> >>
> >> Not a good experience trying wicket so far, I guess it's the time to
> try
> >> out
> >> some more simpler app frameworks,
> >>
> >> -Thumbs Down to Wicket!
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/First-Day-Disgust%21-tf4405663.html#a12569195
> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by chickabee <ja...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for the great idea.
It believe it will be good to put a few of the examples application in
their own folders and war files so that they can be studied independently
without the clutter of 20 projects.
Another thing I notice is that maven is the default build tool used for
wicket, I guess it will be good to provide the ant build.xml, just in case
someone does not want full maven features.
---------------
David Bernard-2 wrote:
>
> Welcome,
>
> If you want to start a blank project, try:
>
> $ mvn archetype:create -DarchetypeGroupId=org.apache.wicket
> -DarchetypeArtifactId=wicket-archetype-quickstart
> -DarchetypeVersion=1.3.0-beta3
> -DgroupId=com.mycompany
> -DartifactId=myproject
> $ cd myproject
> $ more pom.xml
>
> then in this project try (copy/paste) the samples from the website.
>
> /david
>
> chickabee wrote:
>> Hi Wicketers,
>>
>> I tried wicket today and the example application was up and running on
>> tomcat in no time, so that was the good part, after that if I like to
>> create
>> a sample application on my own then I found no easy way to start.
>>
>> Examples are good to browse through and tell about wicket capabilities,
>> however, not so good from learning point of view, All of the examples
>> are
>> glued together in one big jar file and it is just not quick enough to
>> create
>> a bare-bone application quickly and easily,
>>
>> I tried Quicket as mentioned in the readme file, however, Quickets is
>> nothing but waste of time, because it is glued with Hibernate and Spring
>> and
>> both should not be there to start with.
>>
>> Not a good experience trying wicket so far, I guess it's the time to try
>> out
>> some more simpler app frameworks,
>>
>> -Thumbs Down to Wicket!
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by landry soules <la...@gmail.com>.
I totally agree with Jan.
There's no black magic occurring around Wicket, and the best way to go
for a newbie may be to simply create a new web project in Eclipse WTP or
Netbeans, drop wicket.jar, log4j.jar, and slf4j-log4j.jar (if you're
using wicket1.3), and follow HelloWorld sample from here :
http://wicket.apache.org/examplehelloworld.html.
This way, you save the 5 extra minutes needed to install Maven ;-)
Jan Kriesten a écrit :
> hi,
>
> the problem is, that many to be users aren't that deep into oo programming as
> expected. also, people trying out wicket don't come from a maven background but
> maybe from plain jsp or other frameworks - or even php.
>
>
>> $ mvn archetype:create -DarchetypeGroupId=org.apache.wicket
>> -DarchetypeArtifactId=wicket-archetype-quickstart
>> -DarchetypeVersion=1.3.0-beta3
>> -DgroupId=com.mycompany
>> -DartifactId=myproject
>> $ cd myproject
>> $ more pom.xml
>>
>
> i've this suggestions now quite a few times and many users did actually say 'i
> don't have maven installed'. many users are just doing some web programming as
> hobby and trying out new things once in a while.
>
> it surely isn't the fault of the developers what knowledge people have when they
> stumble over wicket and find it worth a look. but to start with wicket for a
> newcomer it might be helpful to not be dependend on maven.
>
> on the other hand, i really don't understand why it's so hard to create a small
> wicket-project by hand: just set up a java project and add the wicket.jar to the
> build path and start coding. one has then to see for his own servlet container,
> but that one should know.
>
> regards, --- jan.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Jan Kriesten <ja...@renitence.de>.
hi,
the problem is, that many to be users aren't that deep into oo programming as
expected. also, people trying out wicket don't come from a maven background but
maybe from plain jsp or other frameworks - or even php.
> $ mvn archetype:create -DarchetypeGroupId=org.apache.wicket
> -DarchetypeArtifactId=wicket-archetype-quickstart
> -DarchetypeVersion=1.3.0-beta3
> -DgroupId=com.mycompany
> -DartifactId=myproject
> $ cd myproject
> $ more pom.xml
i've this suggestions now quite a few times and many users did actually say 'i
don't have maven installed'. many users are just doing some web programming as
hobby and trying out new things once in a while.
it surely isn't the fault of the developers what knowledge people have when they
stumble over wicket and find it worth a look. but to start with wicket for a
newcomer it might be helpful to not be dependend on maven.
on the other hand, i really don't understand why it's so hard to create a small
wicket-project by hand: just set up a java project and add the wicket.jar to the
build path and start coding. one has then to see for his own servlet container,
but that one should know.
regards, --- jan.
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Ayodeji Aladejebi <al...@gmail.com>.
what a complement
> chickabee wrote:
> > Hi Wicketers,
> >
> > I tried wicket today and the example application was up and running on
> > tomcat in no time, so that was the good part, after that if I like to
> create
> > a sample application on my own then I found no easy way to start.
> >
> > Examples are good to browse through and tell about wicket capabilities,
> > however, not so good from learning point of view, All of the examples
> are
> > glued together in one big jar file and it is just not quick enough to
> create
> > a bare-bone application quickly and easily,
> >
> > I tried Quicket as mentioned in the readme file, however, Quickets is
> > nothing but waste of time, because it is glued with Hibernate and Spring
> and
> > both should not be there to start with.
> >
> > Not a good experience trying wicket so far, I guess it's the time to try
> out
> > some more simpler app frameworks,
> >
> > -Thumbs Down to Wicket!
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by David Bernard <dw...@free.fr>.
Welcome,
If you want to start a blank project, try:
$ mvn archetype:create -DarchetypeGroupId=org.apache.wicket
-DarchetypeArtifactId=wicket-archetype-quickstart
-DarchetypeVersion=1.3.0-beta3
-DgroupId=com.mycompany
-DartifactId=myproject
$ cd myproject
$ more pom.xml
then in this project try (copy/paste) the samples from the website.
/david
chickabee wrote:
> Hi Wicketers,
>
> I tried wicket today and the example application was up and running on
> tomcat in no time, so that was the good part, after that if I like to create
> a sample application on my own then I found no easy way to start.
>
> Examples are good to browse through and tell about wicket capabilities,
> however, not so good from learning point of view, All of the examples are
> glued together in one big jar file and it is just not quick enough to create
> a bare-bone application quickly and easily,
>
> I tried Quicket as mentioned in the readme file, however, Quickets is
> nothing but waste of time, because it is glued with Hibernate and Spring and
> both should not be there to start with.
>
> Not a good experience trying wicket so far, I guess it's the time to try out
> some more simpler app frameworks,
>
> -Thumbs Down to Wicket!
>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Jonathan Locke <jo...@gmail.com>.
oh yeah, netbeans to the rescue!
btw, tim and i have been good friends since the 4th grade.
Ayodeji Aladejebi wrote:
>
> hey chickabee,
>
> am concerned for people like you and what you are missing so i have
> decided
> to help you so you wont find yourself in some
> my help only works if you use Netbeans6 though, its free for download
> already
>
> I have checked out and built wicket support for netbeans from
> http://blogs.sun.com/geertjan/entry/when_boudreau_met_wicket
>
> if you have NB6 installed already,
>
> install these two NB modules, create a WebApplication Project in NB and
> you
> will have a ready sample application that runs fine and contains all the
> artifacts you need to build without errors
>
> Download and install this module into NB6
> http://www.dabarobjects.com/downloads/org-netbeans-modules-web-wicket.nbm
> Download and install this module in Netbeans6
> http://www.dabarobjects.com/downloads/org-netbeans-modules-wicket-library.nbm
>
> start netbeans, create a new Web Application Project, Select Wicket 1.2
> and
> then BOOM! everything is ready to go
> and you should be in the wicket business. it does not get simpler
>
> my 2 cent
>
> On 9/9/07, Florian Sperber <fl...@sperber.info> wrote:
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Jonathan Locke schrieb:
>> >
>> > "do my homework for me now or i will continue mock your miserable web
>> > framework!"
>>
>> the funny thing is, that you already did the homework for all of us :-)
>>
>> I really like wicket, the concepts behind it, the wiki (which already
>> covers much ground), the examples (my often life savers) and the
>> community which is great.
>>
>> In my opinion it is not the job of the developers to provide EVERYTHING
>> anyone could possibly need, it's the job of the user to invest time to
>> solve the problems. And as this list has already proven, if politely
>> asked most problems are solved in "minutes".
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Florian Sperber
>>
>> P.S. The purpose of this mail is mainly to show that some people still
>> DO LIKE your work ;-)
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin)
>>
>> iD8DBQFG48OQTJfKjmvEjHwRArXKAJ93nrKA3d5vlPAIAicb1IcLVpZVsgCdGOo2
>> xA4EG/vSoqNpCI8F5jrB1Ro=
>> =oB9U
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Ayodeji Aladejebi <al...@gmail.com>.
hey chickabee,
am concerned for people like you and what you are missing so i have decided
to help you so you wont find yourself in some
my help only works if you use Netbeans6 though, its free for download
already
I have checked out and built wicket support for netbeans from
http://blogs.sun.com/geertjan/entry/when_boudreau_met_wicket
if you have NB6 installed already,
install these two NB modules, create a WebApplication Project in NB and you
will have a ready sample application that runs fine and contains all the
artifacts you need to build without errors
Download and install this module into NB6
http://www.dabarobjects.com/downloads/org-netbeans-modules-web-wicket.nbm
Download and install this module in Netbeans6
http://www.dabarobjects.com/downloads/org-netbeans-modules-wicket-library.nbm
start netbeans, create a new Web Application Project, Select Wicket 1.2 and
then BOOM! everything is ready to go
and you should be in the wicket business. it does not get simpler
my 2 cent
On 9/9/07, Florian Sperber <fl...@sperber.info> wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Jonathan Locke schrieb:
> >
> > "do my homework for me now or i will continue mock your miserable web
> > framework!"
>
> the funny thing is, that you already did the homework for all of us :-)
>
> I really like wicket, the concepts behind it, the wiki (which already
> covers much ground), the examples (my often life savers) and the
> community which is great.
>
> In my opinion it is not the job of the developers to provide EVERYTHING
> anyone could possibly need, it's the job of the user to invest time to
> solve the problems. And as this list has already proven, if politely
> asked most problems are solved in "minutes".
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Florian Sperber
>
> P.S. The purpose of this mail is mainly to show that some people still
> DO LIKE your work ;-)
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin)
>
> iD8DBQFG48OQTJfKjmvEjHwRArXKAJ93nrKA3d5vlPAIAicb1IcLVpZVsgCdGOo2
> xA4EG/vSoqNpCI8F5jrB1Ro=
> =oB9U
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Florian Sperber <fl...@sperber.info>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Jonathan Locke schrieb:
>
> "do my homework for me now or i will continue mock your miserable web
> framework!"
the funny thing is, that you already did the homework for all of us :-)
I really like wicket, the concepts behind it, the wiki (which already
covers much ground), the examples (my often life savers) and the
community which is great.
In my opinion it is not the job of the developers to provide EVERYTHING
anyone could possibly need, it's the job of the user to invest time to
solve the problems. And as this list has already proven, if politely
asked most problems are solved in "minutes".
Kind regards,
Florian Sperber
P.S. The purpose of this mail is mainly to show that some people still
DO LIKE your work ;-)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin)
iD8DBQFG48OQTJfKjmvEjHwRArXKAJ93nrKA3d5vlPAIAicb1IcLVpZVsgCdGOo2
xA4EG/vSoqNpCI8F5jrB1Ro=
=oB9U
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Jonathan Locke <jo...@gmail.com>.
"do my homework for me now or i will continue mock your miserable web
framework!"
it seems probable that this won't make you many friends.
chickabee wrote:
>
> Hi Wicketers,
>
> I tried wicket today and the example application was up and running on
> tomcat in no time, so that was the good part, after that if I like to
> create a sample application on my own then I found no easy way to start.
>
> Examples are good to browse through and tell about wicket capabilities,
> however, not so good from learning point of view, All of the examples are
> glued together in one big jar file and it is just not quick enough to
> create a bare-bone application quickly and easily,
>
> I tried Quicket as mentioned in the readme file, however, Quickets is
> nothing but waste of time, because it is glued with Hibernate and Spring
> and both should not be there to start with.
>
> Not a good experience trying wicket so far, I guess it's the time to try
> out some more simpler app frameworks,
>
> -Thumbs Down to Wicket!
>
>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Evan Chooly <ev...@gmail.com>.
I know i'm a little late on this thread, but as the author of qwicket, i
take particular issue with saying because it's "glued with hibernate and
spring" that it's no good. The express purpose of qwicket is to create a
template for spring/hibernate/wicket based applications. So if it's no good
because it uses those, the problem is with you. Blaming a tool built
explicitly to leverage those libraries is, to be as blunt as you, stupid.
Learn to pick better tools or hire out your work.
On 9/8/07, chickabee <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Wicketers,
>
> I tried wicket today and the example application was up and running on
> tomcat in no time, so that was the good part, after that if I like to
> create
> a sample application on my own then I found no easy way to start.
>
> Examples are good to browse through and tell about wicket capabilities,
> however, not so good from learning point of view, All of the examples are
> glued together in one big jar file and it is just not quick enough to
> create
> a bare-bone application quickly and easily,
>
> I tried Quicket as mentioned in the readme file, however, Quickets is
> nothing but waste of time, because it is glued with Hibernate and Spring
> and
> both should not be there to start with.
>
> Not a good experience trying wicket so far, I guess it's the time to try
> out
> some more simpler app frameworks,
>
> -Thumbs Down to Wicket!
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/First-Day-Disgust%21-tf4405663.html#a12568938
> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Contact 42 <co...@gmail.com>.
lol....it's funny how people like making pompous public statements about
their deficiencies.
> Hi Wicketers,
>
> I tried wicket today and the example application was up and running on
> tomcat in no time, so that was the good part, after that if I like to create
> a sample application on my own then I found no easy way to start.
>
> Examples are good to browse through and tell about wicket capabilities,
> however, not so good from learning point of view, All of the examples are
> glued together in one big jar file and it is just not quick enough to create
> a bare-bone application quickly and easily,
>
> I tried Quicket as mentioned in the readme file, however, Quickets is
> nothing but waste of time, because it is glued with Hibernate and Spring and
> both should not be there to start with.
>
> Not a good experience trying wicket so far, I guess it's the time to try out
> some more simpler app frameworks,
>
> -Thumbs Down to Wicket!
>
>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>.
On 9/8/07, Igor Vaynberg <ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> eelco you have fallen off your horse already?
I guess, sorry. Let me get back on again :)
Eelco
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>.
On 9/11/07, Ayodeji Aladejebi <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> at least i see a lot of maven related issues on the forum, not that maven is
> not perfect but some starters who dont know it well may "think" there is
> some big stuff about any issue they may have when setting it up and setting
> up sample projects. today I have a plugin build (not fully stable) that
> generates a wicket sample project without any errors and runs fine,
>
> my take again,
>
> ppl who complain about maven start up should be directed to stuffs like dat
> and not being forced to use maven for their first sample project.
>
> i have already overcome all those cups and so am not at all bothered about
> what wicket decides to use, i already see that wicket advantages far
> outweight its so to say, disadvantages so wherever wicket goes, i follow :)
> but am just concerned for some ppl yu know
I guess it's just a matter of communicating the quickstart options
more clearly. Would be great if someone outside of the team would make
a proposal of that. Along the lines of get started using.... maven/
ant/ eclipse/ netbeans/ idea/ ...
Eelco
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Ayodeji Aladejebi <al...@gmail.com>.
at least i see a lot of maven related issues on the forum, not that maven is
not perfect but some starters who dont know it well may "think" there is
some big stuff about any issue they may have when setting it up and setting
up sample projects. today I have a plugin build (not fully stable) that
generates a wicket sample project without any errors and runs fine,
my take again,
ppl who complain about maven start up should be directed to stuffs like dat
and not being forced to use maven for their first sample project.
i have already overcome all those cups and so am not at all bothered about
what wicket decides to use, i already see that wicket advantages far
outweight its so to say, disadvantages so wherever wicket goes, i follow :)
but am just concerned for some ppl yu know
On 9/11/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 9/11/07, Ayodeji Aladejebi <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > yu see what i mean? :) this guy now cared to ask, someone else will get
> > bored there and leave :)
>
> No I don't see what you mean.
>
> Martijn
>
> --
> Buy Wicket in Action: http://manning.com/dashorst
> Apache Wicket 1.3.0-beta3 is released
> Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3.0-beta3/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>.
On 9/11/07, Ayodeji Aladejebi <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> yu see what i mean? :) this guy now cared to ask, someone else will get
> bored there and leave :)
It is optional though. People can use the quickstart or they can just
create something from scratch. Also note we started out distributing
IDE files, including NetBeans and IDE for a while, but some people
complained about *that*, and it also got harder for us to maintain.
We're never gonna cater to everyone's wishes, and I think we're doing
a pretty good job as it is.
But if someone has other ideas on a quickstart, it would be pretty
easy to just add that project to wicket-stuff and document it
prominently (as an alternative) on the WIKI.
Eelco
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Craig Tataryn <cr...@tataryn.net>.
Maven can just produce a zip archive automagically, so perhaps someone can
incorporate the following into the Wicket builds:
1) Get maven to produce a project based off the quickstart archetype
2) Get maven to zip the outcome for people to download.
Might make the Maven phobic people happy and not cost a lot as far as
maintenance.
Craig.
On 9/11/07, jweekend <jw...@cabouge.com> wrote:
>
>
> I bumped into Jimmy. It just turns out that his proxy was not set up.
> Having
> seen this sort of problem in other corporate situations (firewalls,
> proxies,
> locally renewed passwords etc) I guessed what it might be straight away
> and
> when he changed the settings (in the right file) it just started to work
> (as
> usual with Wicket).
> He is now back on track, spending time on Wicket (rather than Maven2), and
> enjoying it again. This is not an atypical story - in fact the person who
> started this thread because he was so "disgusted" in the packaging of the
> examples etc is now helping other people with their Wicket questions, just
> 3
> days later! I was intending not to get involved on this, now far too long
> and too "all-purpose"ified thread, but the mood has changed somewhat.
>
> Yes, a zip file with everything in it is a decent option for newcomers
> (but
> who's going to maintain it and keep it up to date? - maybe when 1.3 final
> is
> released this could be feasible), but it also has a lot of drawbacks, many
> of which have already been touched on in this thread.
>
> I still say that assuming you have a working Maven2 set up already or are
> able to achieve this without too much pain including setting up proxies
> etc..., and this, AFAICS, is where more than a few people get frustrated
> and
> start, totally incorrectly but perhaps understandably, thinking that
> Wicket
> is broken or hard to get started with, following the instructions now
> linked
> to from the Wicket homepage make it _really_ so fast and ever so easy to
> get
> up and running with Wicket, with all the advantages of the repository etc
> .
>
> Regards - Cemal
> http://jWeekend.co.uk jWeekend.co.uk
>
>
>
>
> Martijn Dashorst wrote:
> >
> > Did you type that capitalized Org yourself or is that something your
> > email client did?
> >
> >> Org.apache.wicket:wicket-archetype-quickstart:jar:1.3.0-beta3
> > ^
> >
> > I guess you have made a typing error, since I have been able to use it
> > (as have many others).
> >
> > Martijn
> >
> >
> > On 9/11/07, jlawrence <jl...@instantemail.t-mobile.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Hi I have been trying to use the quickstart for beta3 with the Maven
> >> command as stated on the wicket site and it is not working.
> >>
> >> Build Error
> >> Unable to download file...
> >> Org.apache.wicket:wicket-archetype-quickstart:jar:1.3.0-beta3
> >>
> >> Etc......
> >>
> >> Can anyone please advise.
> >>
> >> Jim
> >> ------------------
> >> Sent with Instant Email from T-Mobile
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: igor.vaynberg@gmail.com
> >> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 07:11:20
> >> To:users@wicket.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: First Day Disgust!
> >>
> >> no one is asking anyone here to become a maven guru. All we are asking
> >> is that they use it to generate a quickstart project, which simply
> >> involves following the directions.
> >>
> >> -igor
> >>
> >> On 9/11/07, Ayodeji Aladejebi <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > maven maven maven, that is if all developers all over the world knows
> >> what
> >> > maven is. Ant was what i first knew until i started hearing maven and
> >> infact
> >> > it was mainly because of wicket that i learnt maven early before a
> >> netbeans
> >> > module came out.
> >> >
> >> > so really not all developers will have some patience to first google
> >> maven
> >> > fundamentals which is why i believe in:
> >> >
> >> > 1. Step 1, Install Your IDE (Everybody knows that)
> >> > 2. Step 2, Install This Plugin (IDEs make that simple)
> >> > 3. Step 3, Create a new Wicket Project and then BOOM it works without
> >> even a
> >> > line of code yet (as much as i hated SWT, i learnt it this way)
> >> >
> >> > And lets remember the success of the ASP.NET family, you install
> Visual
> >> > Studio and then BOOM your sample project is ready. Then you see this
> 2
> >> days
> >> > old developer feeling like he can code every website. that "feeling"
> is
> >> the
> >> > success of every developer tool and dont let us forget that
> >> >
> >> > The Java community has a plethora of tools but as newer developers
> come
> >> on
> >> > board, they need a clean entrance and maven is not what you learn at
> >> the
> >> > early stage of your developer career (even though its simple to use,
> >> infact
> >> > simpler than i thought cuz i hated Ant)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > My take,
> >> >
> >> > While off course maven is still the used tool, but the community
> >> should
> >> > bring the useful IDE plugins to the forefront for starters
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> >
> >> > On 9/11/07, Gerolf Seitz <ge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > On 9/10/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I haven't used an Eclipse plugin for maven since the command line
> >> > > > version works really well and my previous experiences with
> mevenide
> >> > > > were less than ok (talking about 2 years ago!)
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Martijn
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > there seem to be a new maven-eclipse-integration plugin in town:
> >> > > http://code.google.com/p/q4e/
> >> > > it's supposed to be part of the eclipse foundation.
> >> > > i haven't tried it out yet, but as i didn't really like m2eclipse,
> i
> >> will
> >> > > definitely give it a shot.
> >> > >
> >> > > gerolf
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > > Buy Wicket in Action: http://manning.com/dashorst
> >> > > > Apache Wicket 1.3.0-beta3 is released
> >> > > > Get it now:
> >> http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3.0-beta3/
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> >> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Buy Wicket in Action: http://manning.com/dashorst
> > Apache Wicket 1.3.0-beta3 is released
> > Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3.0-beta3/
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/First-Day-Disgust%21-tf4405663.html#a12621804
> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by jweekend <jw...@cabouge.com>.
I bumped into Jimmy. It just turns out that his proxy was not set up. Having
seen this sort of problem in other corporate situations (firewalls, proxies,
locally renewed passwords etc) I guessed what it might be straight away and
when he changed the settings (in the right file) it just started to work (as
usual with Wicket).
He is now back on track, spending time on Wicket (rather than Maven2), and
enjoying it again. This is not an atypical story - in fact the person who
started this thread because he was so "disgusted" in the packaging of the
examples etc is now helping other people with their Wicket questions, just 3
days later! I was intending not to get involved on this, now far too long
and too "all-purpose"ified thread, but the mood has changed somewhat.
Yes, a zip file with everything in it is a decent option for newcomers (but
who's going to maintain it and keep it up to date? - maybe when 1.3 final is
released this could be feasible), but it also has a lot of drawbacks, many
of which have already been touched on in this thread.
I still say that assuming you have a working Maven2 set up already or are
able to achieve this without too much pain including setting up proxies
etc..., and this, AFAICS, is where more than a few people get frustrated and
start, totally incorrectly but perhaps understandably, thinking that Wicket
is broken or hard to get started with, following the instructions now linked
to from the Wicket homepage make it _really_ so fast and ever so easy to get
up and running with Wicket, with all the advantages of the repository etc .
Regards - Cemal
http://jWeekend.co.uk jWeekend.co.uk
Martijn Dashorst wrote:
>
> Did you type that capitalized Org yourself or is that something your
> email client did?
>
>> Org.apache.wicket:wicket-archetype-quickstart:jar:1.3.0-beta3
> ^
>
> I guess you have made a typing error, since I have been able to use it
> (as have many others).
>
> Martijn
>
>
> On 9/11/07, jlawrence <jl...@instantemail.t-mobile.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi I have been trying to use the quickstart for beta3 with the Maven
>> command as stated on the wicket site and it is not working.
>>
>> Build Error
>> Unable to download file...
>> Org.apache.wicket:wicket-archetype-quickstart:jar:1.3.0-beta3
>>
>> Etc......
>>
>> Can anyone please advise.
>>
>> Jim
>> ------------------
>> Sent with Instant Email from T-Mobile
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: igor.vaynberg@gmail.com
>> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 07:11:20
>> To:users@wicket.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: First Day Disgust!
>>
>> no one is asking anyone here to become a maven guru. All we are asking
>> is that they use it to generate a quickstart project, which simply
>> involves following the directions.
>>
>> -igor
>>
>> On 9/11/07, Ayodeji Aladejebi <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > maven maven maven, that is if all developers all over the world knows
>> what
>> > maven is. Ant was what i first knew until i started hearing maven and
>> infact
>> > it was mainly because of wicket that i learnt maven early before a
>> netbeans
>> > module came out.
>> >
>> > so really not all developers will have some patience to first google
>> maven
>> > fundamentals which is why i believe in:
>> >
>> > 1. Step 1, Install Your IDE (Everybody knows that)
>> > 2. Step 2, Install This Plugin (IDEs make that simple)
>> > 3. Step 3, Create a new Wicket Project and then BOOM it works without
>> even a
>> > line of code yet (as much as i hated SWT, i learnt it this way)
>> >
>> > And lets remember the success of the ASP.NET family, you install Visual
>> > Studio and then BOOM your sample project is ready. Then you see this 2
>> days
>> > old developer feeling like he can code every website. that "feeling" is
>> the
>> > success of every developer tool and dont let us forget that
>> >
>> > The Java community has a plethora of tools but as newer developers come
>> on
>> > board, they need a clean entrance and maven is not what you learn at
>> the
>> > early stage of your developer career (even though its simple to use,
>> infact
>> > simpler than i thought cuz i hated Ant)
>> >
>> >
>> > My take,
>> >
>> > While off course maven is still the used tool, but the community
>> should
>> > bring the useful IDE plugins to the forefront for starters
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > On 9/11/07, Gerolf Seitz <ge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > On 9/10/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > I haven't used an Eclipse plugin for maven since the command line
>> > > > version works really well and my previous experiences with mevenide
>> > > > were less than ok (talking about 2 years ago!)
>> > > >
>> > > > Martijn
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > there seem to be a new maven-eclipse-integration plugin in town:
>> > > http://code.google.com/p/q4e/
>> > > it's supposed to be part of the eclipse foundation.
>> > > i haven't tried it out yet, but as i didn't really like m2eclipse, i
>> will
>> > > definitely give it a shot.
>> > >
>> > > gerolf
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > > Buy Wicket in Action: http://manning.com/dashorst
>> > > > Apache Wicket 1.3.0-beta3 is released
>> > > > Get it now:
>> http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3.0-beta3/
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Buy Wicket in Action: http://manning.com/dashorst
> Apache Wicket 1.3.0-beta3 is released
> Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3.0-beta3/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
>
--
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Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
Did you type that capitalized Org yourself or is that something your
email client did?
> Org.apache.wicket:wicket-archetype-quickstart:jar:1.3.0-beta3
^
I guess you have made a typing error, since I have been able to use it
(as have many others).
Martijn
On 9/11/07, jlawrence <jl...@instantemail.t-mobile.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi I have been trying to use the quickstart for beta3 with the Maven command as stated on the wicket site and it is not working.
>
> Build Error
> Unable to download file...
> Org.apache.wicket:wicket-archetype-quickstart:jar:1.3.0-beta3
>
> Etc......
>
> Can anyone please advise.
>
> Jim
> ------------------
> Sent with Instant Email from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: igor.vaynberg@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 07:11:20
> To:users@wicket.apache.org
> Subject: Re: First Day Disgust!
>
> no one is asking anyone here to become a maven guru. All we are asking
> is that they use it to generate a quickstart project, which simply
> involves following the directions.
>
> -igor
>
> On 9/11/07, Ayodeji Aladejebi <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > maven maven maven, that is if all developers all over the world knows what
> > maven is. Ant was what i first knew until i started hearing maven and infact
> > it was mainly because of wicket that i learnt maven early before a netbeans
> > module came out.
> >
> > so really not all developers will have some patience to first google maven
> > fundamentals which is why i believe in:
> >
> > 1. Step 1, Install Your IDE (Everybody knows that)
> > 2. Step 2, Install This Plugin (IDEs make that simple)
> > 3. Step 3, Create a new Wicket Project and then BOOM it works without even a
> > line of code yet (as much as i hated SWT, i learnt it this way)
> >
> > And lets remember the success of the ASP.NET family, you install Visual
> > Studio and then BOOM your sample project is ready. Then you see this 2 days
> > old developer feeling like he can code every website. that "feeling" is the
> > success of every developer tool and dont let us forget that
> >
> > The Java community has a plethora of tools but as newer developers come on
> > board, they need a clean entrance and maven is not what you learn at the
> > early stage of your developer career (even though its simple to use, infact
> > simpler than i thought cuz i hated Ant)
> >
> >
> > My take,
> >
> > While off course maven is still the used tool, but the community should
> > bring the useful IDE plugins to the forefront for starters
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > On 9/11/07, Gerolf Seitz <ge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 9/10/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I haven't used an Eclipse plugin for maven since the command line
> > > > version works really well and my previous experiences with mevenide
> > > > were less than ok (talking about 2 years ago!)
> > > >
> > > > Martijn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > there seem to be a new maven-eclipse-integration plugin in town:
> > > http://code.google.com/p/q4e/
> > > it's supposed to be part of the eclipse foundation.
> > > i haven't tried it out yet, but as i didn't really like m2eclipse, i will
> > > definitely give it a shot.
> > >
> > > gerolf
> > >
> > > --
> > > > Buy Wicket in Action: http://manning.com/dashorst
> > > > Apache Wicket 1.3.0-beta3 is released
> > > > Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3.0-beta3/
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
--
Buy Wicket in Action: http://manning.com/dashorst
Apache Wicket 1.3.0-beta3 is released
Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3.0-beta3/
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
On 9/11/07, Ayodeji Aladejebi <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> yu see what i mean? :) this guy now cared to ask, someone else will get
> bored there and leave :)
No I don't see what you mean.
Martijn
--
Buy Wicket in Action: http://manning.com/dashorst
Apache Wicket 1.3.0-beta3 is released
Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3.0-beta3/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Ayodeji Aladejebi <al...@gmail.com>.
yu see what i mean? :) this guy now cared to ask, someone else will get
bored there and leave :)
On 9/11/07, jlawrence <jl...@instantemail.t-mobile.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Hi I have been trying to use the quickstart for beta3 with the Maven
> command as stated on the wicket site and it is not working.
>
> Build Error
> Unable to download file...
> Org.apache.wicket:wicket-archetype-quickstart:jar:1.3.0-beta3
>
> Etc......
>
> Can anyone please advise.
>
> Jim
> ------------------
> Sent with Instant Email from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: igor.vaynberg@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 07:11:20
> To:users@wicket.apache.org
> Subject: Re: First Day Disgust!
>
> no one is asking anyone here to become a maven guru. All we are asking
> is that they use it to generate a quickstart project, which simply
> involves following the directions.
>
> -igor
>
> On 9/11/07, Ayodeji Aladejebi <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > maven maven maven, that is if all developers all over the world knows
> what
> > maven is. Ant was what i first knew until i started hearing maven and
> infact
> > it was mainly because of wicket that i learnt maven early before a
> netbeans
> > module came out.
> >
> > so really not all developers will have some patience to first google
> maven
> > fundamentals which is why i believe in:
> >
> > 1. Step 1, Install Your IDE (Everybody knows that)
> > 2. Step 2, Install This Plugin (IDEs make that simple)
> > 3. Step 3, Create a new Wicket Project and then BOOM it works without
> even a
> > line of code yet (as much as i hated SWT, i learnt it this way)
> >
> > And lets remember the success of the ASP.NET family, you install Visual
> > Studio and then BOOM your sample project is ready. Then you see this 2
> days
> > old developer feeling like he can code every website. that "feeling" is
> the
> > success of every developer tool and dont let us forget that
> >
> > The Java community has a plethora of tools but as newer developers come
> on
> > board, they need a clean entrance and maven is not what you learn at the
> > early stage of your developer career (even though its simple to use,
> infact
> > simpler than i thought cuz i hated Ant)
> >
> >
> > My take,
> >
> > While off course maven is still the used tool, but the community should
> > bring the useful IDE plugins to the forefront for starters
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > On 9/11/07, Gerolf Seitz <ge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 9/10/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I haven't used an Eclipse plugin for maven since the command line
> > > > version works really well and my previous experiences with mevenide
> > > > were less than ok (talking about 2 years ago!)
> > > >
> > > > Martijn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > there seem to be a new maven-eclipse-integration plugin in town:
> > > http://code.google.com/p/q4e/
> > > it's supposed to be part of the eclipse foundation.
> > > i haven't tried it out yet, but as i didn't really like m2eclipse, i
> will
> > > definitely give it a shot.
> > >
> > > gerolf
> > >
> > > --
> > > > Buy Wicket in Action: http://manning.com/dashorst
> > > > Apache Wicket 1.3.0-beta3 is released
> > > > Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3.0-beta3/
> > > >
> > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by jlawrence <jl...@instantemail.t-mobile.co.uk>.
Hi I have been trying to use the quickstart for beta3 with the Maven command as stated on the wicket site and it is not working.
Build Error
Unable to download file...
Org.apache.wicket:wicket-archetype-quickstart:jar:1.3.0-beta3
Etc......
Can anyone please advise.
Jim
------------------
Sent with Instant Email from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: igor.vaynberg@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 07:11:20
To:users@wicket.apache.org
Subject: Re: First Day Disgust!
no one is asking anyone here to become a maven guru. All we are asking
is that they use it to generate a quickstart project, which simply
involves following the directions.
-igor
On 9/11/07, Ayodeji Aladejebi <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> maven maven maven, that is if all developers all over the world knows what
> maven is. Ant was what i first knew until i started hearing maven and infact
> it was mainly because of wicket that i learnt maven early before a netbeans
> module came out.
>
> so really not all developers will have some patience to first google maven
> fundamentals which is why i believe in:
>
> 1. Step 1, Install Your IDE (Everybody knows that)
> 2. Step 2, Install This Plugin (IDEs make that simple)
> 3. Step 3, Create a new Wicket Project and then BOOM it works without even a
> line of code yet (as much as i hated SWT, i learnt it this way)
>
> And lets remember the success of the ASP.NET family, you install Visual
> Studio and then BOOM your sample project is ready. Then you see this 2 days
> old developer feeling like he can code every website. that "feeling" is the
> success of every developer tool and dont let us forget that
>
> The Java community has a plethora of tools but as newer developers come on
> board, they need a clean entrance and maven is not what you learn at the
> early stage of your developer career (even though its simple to use, infact
> simpler than i thought cuz i hated Ant)
>
>
> My take,
>
> While off course maven is still the used tool, but the community should
> bring the useful IDE plugins to the forefront for starters
>
> Thanks
>
> On 9/11/07, Gerolf Seitz <ge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 9/10/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I haven't used an Eclipse plugin for maven since the command line
> > > version works really well and my previous experiences with mevenide
> > > were less than ok (talking about 2 years ago!)
> > >
> > > Martijn
> >
> >
> >
> > there seem to be a new maven-eclipse-integration plugin in town:
> > http://code.google.com/p/q4e/
> > it's supposed to be part of the eclipse foundation.
> > i haven't tried it out yet, but as i didn't really like m2eclipse, i will
> > definitely give it a shot.
> >
> > gerolf
> >
> > --
> > > Buy Wicket in Action: http://manning.com/dashorst
> > > Apache Wicket 1.3.0-beta3 is released
> > > Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3.0-beta3/
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by ig...@gmail.com.
no one is asking anyone here to become a maven guru. All we are asking
is that they use it to generate a quickstart project, which simply
involves following the directions.
-igor
On 9/11/07, Ayodeji Aladejebi <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> maven maven maven, that is if all developers all over the world knows what
> maven is. Ant was what i first knew until i started hearing maven and infact
> it was mainly because of wicket that i learnt maven early before a netbeans
> module came out.
>
> so really not all developers will have some patience to first google maven
> fundamentals which is why i believe in:
>
> 1. Step 1, Install Your IDE (Everybody knows that)
> 2. Step 2, Install This Plugin (IDEs make that simple)
> 3. Step 3, Create a new Wicket Project and then BOOM it works without even a
> line of code yet (as much as i hated SWT, i learnt it this way)
>
> And lets remember the success of the ASP.NET family, you install Visual
> Studio and then BOOM your sample project is ready. Then you see this 2 days
> old developer feeling like he can code every website. that "feeling" is the
> success of every developer tool and dont let us forget that
>
> The Java community has a plethora of tools but as newer developers come on
> board, they need a clean entrance and maven is not what you learn at the
> early stage of your developer career (even though its simple to use, infact
> simpler than i thought cuz i hated Ant)
>
>
> My take,
>
> While off course maven is still the used tool, but the community should
> bring the useful IDE plugins to the forefront for starters
>
> Thanks
>
> On 9/11/07, Gerolf Seitz <ge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 9/10/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I haven't used an Eclipse plugin for maven since the command line
> > > version works really well and my previous experiences with mevenide
> > > were less than ok (talking about 2 years ago!)
> > >
> > > Martijn
> >
> >
> >
> > there seem to be a new maven-eclipse-integration plugin in town:
> > http://code.google.com/p/q4e/
> > it's supposed to be part of the eclipse foundation.
> > i haven't tried it out yet, but as i didn't really like m2eclipse, i will
> > definitely give it a shot.
> >
> > gerolf
> >
> > --
> > > Buy Wicket in Action: http://manning.com/dashorst
> > > Apache Wicket 1.3.0-beta3 is released
> > > Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3.0-beta3/
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Ayodeji Aladejebi <al...@gmail.com>.
maven maven maven, that is if all developers all over the world knows what
maven is. Ant was what i first knew until i started hearing maven and infact
it was mainly because of wicket that i learnt maven early before a netbeans
module came out.
so really not all developers will have some patience to first google maven
fundamentals which is why i believe in:
1. Step 1, Install Your IDE (Everybody knows that)
2. Step 2, Install This Plugin (IDEs make that simple)
3. Step 3, Create a new Wicket Project and then BOOM it works without even a
line of code yet (as much as i hated SWT, i learnt it this way)
And lets remember the success of the ASP.NET family, you install Visual
Studio and then BOOM your sample project is ready. Then you see this 2 days
old developer feeling like he can code every website. that "feeling" is the
success of every developer tool and dont let us forget that
The Java community has a plethora of tools but as newer developers come on
board, they need a clean entrance and maven is not what you learn at the
early stage of your developer career (even though its simple to use, infact
simpler than i thought cuz i hated Ant)
My take,
While off course maven is still the used tool, but the community should
bring the useful IDE plugins to the forefront for starters
Thanks
On 9/11/07, Gerolf Seitz <ge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 9/10/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I haven't used an Eclipse plugin for maven since the command line
> > version works really well and my previous experiences with mevenide
> > were less than ok (talking about 2 years ago!)
> >
> > Martijn
>
>
>
> there seem to be a new maven-eclipse-integration plugin in town:
> http://code.google.com/p/q4e/
> it's supposed to be part of the eclipse foundation.
> i haven't tried it out yet, but as i didn't really like m2eclipse, i will
> definitely give it a shot.
>
> gerolf
>
> --
> > Buy Wicket in Action: http://manning.com/dashorst
> > Apache Wicket 1.3.0-beta3 is released
> > Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3.0-beta3/
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Gerolf Seitz <ge...@gmail.com>.
On 9/10/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I haven't used an Eclipse plugin for maven since the command line
> version works really well and my previous experiences with mevenide
> were less than ok (talking about 2 years ago!)
>
> Martijn
there seem to be a new maven-eclipse-integration plugin in town:
http://code.google.com/p/q4e/
it's supposed to be part of the eclipse foundation.
i haven't tried it out yet, but as i didn't really like m2eclipse, i will
definitely give it a shot.
gerolf
--
> Buy Wicket in Action: http://manning.com/dashorst
> Apache Wicket 1.3.0-beta3 is released
> Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3.0-beta3/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
Not to mention IDEA 7M2 (or even versions before that) can read a
maven pom, and use that directly. Netbeans also has a maven plugin
that does that (took me 1 minute to discover and less to install the
plugin).
I haven't used an Eclipse plugin for maven since the command line
version works really well and my previous experiences with mevenide
were less than ok (talking about 2 years ago!)
Martijn
--
Buy Wicket in Action: http://manning.com/dashorst
Apache Wicket 1.3.0-beta3 is released
Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.3.0-beta3/
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by ig...@gmail.com.
I don't think you can handle that
On 9/10/07, Johan Compagner <jc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > what are we to provide? a prebuilt project for eclipse? a prebuilt project
> > for netbeans? a prebuilt project for idea? a prebuilt project for jedit? a
> > prebuilt project for ant? a prebuilt project for make? a prebuilt project
> > for buildr? a prebuilt project for foo?
>
>
> i want "Igors Special Build"
>
> johan
>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Johan Compagner <jc...@gmail.com>.
>
> what are we to provide? a prebuilt project for eclipse? a prebuilt project
> for netbeans? a prebuilt project for idea? a prebuilt project for jedit? a
> prebuilt project for ant? a prebuilt project for make? a prebuilt project
> for buildr? a prebuilt project for foo?
i want "Igors Special Build"
johan
Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Aaron Hiniker <ah...@edicorp.com>.
Maven does have an Ant plugin that allows you to generate ant build
files so that non-maven users can build maven-managed software initially
(won't help much if the pom's change as you now need to run maven to
generate new ant builds).
mvn ant:ant
Maybe this could be used to cater to non-maven users from within the
quickstart-- by giving them the ability to use Ant to build instead of
Maven, and without having to manually create/maintain any of those build
files.
Aaron
Igor Vaynberg wrote:
> so far i have heard a bunch of bitching but very little in the way of
> concrete suggestions.
>
> what are we to provide? a prebuilt project for eclipse? a prebuilt project
> for netbeans? a prebuilt project for idea? a prebuilt project for jedit? a
> prebuilt project for ant? a prebuilt project for make? a prebuilt project
> for buildr? a prebuilt project for foo?
>
> this is why we opted for maven, at least it can generate projects for all
> the major ides so we dont have to worry about it ourselves. the barrier to
> entry is incredibly low imho as it is - defined on our quickstart page of
> the website.
>
> 1) install maven2 - 5 minutes
> 2) run maven command to generate the project: 1 minute
> 3) run maven command to generate ide setup: 1 minute
>
> seven minutes and you have a project you can run inside your ide, or package
> into a war, or run from a command line with mvn jetty:run.
>
> -igor
>
>
> On 9/10/07, JulianS <js...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Behind chickabee's attempt to provoke the Wicket community (which Eelco
>> has
>> commendably resisted) lies a real message, namely that there are so many
>> web
>> frameworks out there, that people only have enough time to kick the tyres
>> before deciding which one to use, and therefore first impressions are
>> critical.
>>
>> This is one reason that ruby on rails has taken off--the combination of
>> Instant Rails and Active Record makes it the easiest framework to get a
>> fully database-enabled application up and running.
>>
>> Wicket has done a great job of making it easy to get up and running, but
>> there is always more to be done.
>>
>> Julian
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://www.nabble.com/First-Day-Disgust%21-tf4405663.html#a12601343
>> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>.
On 9/10/07, Igor Vaynberg <ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> so far i have heard a bunch of bitching but very little in the way of
> concrete suggestions.
>
> what are we to provide? a prebuilt project for eclipse? a prebuilt project
> for netbeans? a prebuilt project for idea? a prebuilt project for jedit? a
> prebuilt project for ant? a prebuilt project for make? a prebuilt project
> for buildr? a prebuilt project for foo?
>
> this is why we opted for maven, at least it can generate projects for all
> the major ides so we dont have to worry about it ourselves. the barrier to
> entry is incredibly low imho as it is - defined on our quickstart page of
> the website.
Yeah, I think we facilitate n00bs enough already. There are
definitively a lot of things we can improve on Wicket, but dumbing
things down even more isn't very interesting.
Eelco
Eelco
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Igor Vaynberg <ig...@gmail.com>.
so far i have heard a bunch of bitching but very little in the way of
concrete suggestions.
what are we to provide? a prebuilt project for eclipse? a prebuilt project
for netbeans? a prebuilt project for idea? a prebuilt project for jedit? a
prebuilt project for ant? a prebuilt project for make? a prebuilt project
for buildr? a prebuilt project for foo?
this is why we opted for maven, at least it can generate projects for all
the major ides so we dont have to worry about it ourselves. the barrier to
entry is incredibly low imho as it is - defined on our quickstart page of
the website.
1) install maven2 - 5 minutes
2) run maven command to generate the project: 1 minute
3) run maven command to generate ide setup: 1 minute
seven minutes and you have a project you can run inside your ide, or package
into a war, or run from a command line with mvn jetty:run.
-igor
On 9/10/07, JulianS <js...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Behind chickabee's attempt to provoke the Wicket community (which Eelco
> has
> commendably resisted) lies a real message, namely that there are so many
> web
> frameworks out there, that people only have enough time to kick the tyres
> before deciding which one to use, and therefore first impressions are
> critical.
>
> This is one reason that ruby on rails has taken off--the combination of
> Instant Rails and Active Record makes it the easiest framework to get a
> fully database-enabled application up and running.
>
> Wicket has done a great job of making it easy to get up and running, but
> there is always more to be done.
>
> Julian
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/First-Day-Disgust%21-tf4405663.html#a12601343
> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>.
> This is one reason that ruby on rails has taken off--the combination of
> Instant Rails and Active Record makes it the easiest framework to get a
> fully database-enabled application up and running.
>
> Wicket has done a great job of making it easy to get up and running, but
> there is always more to be done.
Definitively. The next steps in making the framework better imho is to
focus more on stacks. It should be optional, and focussed on getting
database apps up and running real quick. Databinder goes in this
direction, and also projects like salve (Igor's baby) can mean a lot
in this context. And what Matej has been working on, a cluster
solution that is optimized for Wicket is another stack improvement
(and the fact that Terracotta has specific Wicket support yet
another).
It wouldn't hurt of more people (other than the core team) would pick
this up though. We are busy enough as it is with writing the book,
supporting this list and fixing bugs etc. I'm definitively interested
to play around with ideas myself once we get the book over with.
Eelco
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Craig Tataryn <cr...@tataryn.net>.
On 9/10/07, JulianS <js...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> <snip>
> This is one reason that ruby on rails has taken off--the combination of
> Instant Rails and Active Record makes it the easiest framework to get a
> fully database-enabled application up and running.
> <snip>
> Julian
But the thing is, if someone would have started bitching at DHH "why do I
have to install this "gems" thing to get a Rails app working" he would have
told them where to go. Chickabee was po'd because Wicket uses Maven for a
few things and that's not how he operates.
Because we are using a well established ecosystem such as Java (Ruby was all
greenfield when Rails came out), everyone probably does things 100 different
ways in our neck of the woods. Unfortunately this may loose some of those
not willing to try a new (and frankly better) way. Even though you really
only need Maven for the quick starts. After that, download the jars
manually and Ant away...
Craig.
--
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/First-Day-Disgust%21-tf4405663.html#a12601343
> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
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>
>
Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by JulianS <js...@yahoo.com>.
Behind chickabee's attempt to provoke the Wicket community (which Eelco has
commendably resisted) lies a real message, namely that there are so many web
frameworks out there, that people only have enough time to kick the tyres
before deciding which one to use, and therefore first impressions are
critical.
This is one reason that ruby on rails has taken off--the combination of
Instant Rails and Active Record makes it the easiest framework to get a
fully database-enabled application up and running.
Wicket has done a great job of making it easy to get up and running, but
there is always more to be done.
Julian
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/First-Day-Disgust%21-tf4405663.html#a12601343
Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Igor Vaynberg <ig...@gmail.com>.
eelco you have fallen off your horse already?
-igor
On 9/8/07, Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 9/8/07, chickabee <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Wicketers,
> >
> > I tried wicket today and the example application was up and running on
> > tomcat in no time, so that was the good part, after that if I like to
> create
> > a sample application on my own then I found no easy way to start.
> >
> > Examples are good to browse through and tell about wicket capabilities,
> > however, not so good from learning point of view, All of the examples
> are
> > glued together in one big jar file and it is just not quick enough to
> create
> > a bare-bone application quickly and easily,
> >
> > I tried Quicket as mentioned in the readme file, however, Quickets is
> > nothing but waste of time, because it is glued with Hibernate and Spring
> and
> > both should not be there to start with.
> >
> > Not a good experience trying wicket so far, I guess it's the time to try
> out
> > some more simpler app frameworks,
> >
> > -Thumbs Down to Wicket!
>
> I love how you contribute to making our industry better.
>
> Eelco
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>.
On 9/8/07, chickabee <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Wicketers,
>
> I tried wicket today and the example application was up and running on
> tomcat in no time, so that was the good part, after that if I like to create
> a sample application on my own then I found no easy way to start.
>
> Examples are good to browse through and tell about wicket capabilities,
> however, not so good from learning point of view, All of the examples are
> glued together in one big jar file and it is just not quick enough to create
> a bare-bone application quickly and easily,
>
> I tried Quicket as mentioned in the readme file, however, Quickets is
> nothing but waste of time, because it is glued with Hibernate and Spring and
> both should not be there to start with.
>
> Not a good experience trying wicket so far, I guess it's the time to try out
> some more simpler app frameworks,
>
> -Thumbs Down to Wicket!
I love how you contribute to making our industry better.
Eelco
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Gerolf Seitz <ge...@gmail.com>.
On 9/11/07, Arinté <ar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> chickabee wrote:
> > Hi Wicketers,
> >
> > I tried wicket today and the example application was up and running on
> > tomcat in no time, so that was the good part, after that if I like to
> create
> > a sample application on my own then I found no easy way to start.
> >
> > Examples are good to browse through and tell about wicket capabilities,
> > however, not so good from learning point of view, All of the examples
> are
> > glued together in one big jar file and it is just not quick enough to
> create
> > a bare-bone application quickly and easily,
> >
> > I tried Quicket as mentioned in the readme file, however, Quickets is
> > nothing but waste of time, because it is glued with Hibernate and Spring
> and
> > both should not be there to start with.
> >
> > Not a good experience trying wicket so far, I guess it's the time to try
> out
> > some more simpler app frameworks,
> >
> > -Thumbs Down to Wicket!
> >
> You think this is bad try to get a Tapestry 5 app to work...
at least it will look good :P
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>
Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Arinté <ar...@gmail.com>.
chickabee wrote:
> Hi Wicketers,
>
> I tried wicket today and the example application was up and running on
> tomcat in no time, so that was the good part, after that if I like to create
> a sample application on my own then I found no easy way to start.
>
> Examples are good to browse through and tell about wicket capabilities,
> however, not so good from learning point of view, All of the examples are
> glued together in one big jar file and it is just not quick enough to create
> a bare-bone application quickly and easily,
>
> I tried Quicket as mentioned in the readme file, however, Quickets is
> nothing but waste of time, because it is glued with Hibernate and Spring and
> both should not be there to start with.
>
> Not a good experience trying wicket so far, I guess it's the time to try out
> some more simpler app frameworks,
>
> -Thumbs Down to Wicket!
>
You think this is bad try to get a Tapestry 5 app to work...
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Craig Tataryn <cr...@tataryn.net>.
http://www.sonatype.com/book/introduction.html#why_not_just_use_ant
On 9/8/07, Igor Vaynberg <ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> we dont want a build.xml contribution. we can write one ourselves if need
> be. we are simply not interested in maintaining yet another way to build
> wicket.
>
> -igor
>
>
> On 9/8/07, "C. Bergström" <cb...@netsyncro.com> wrote:
> >
> > chickabee wrote:
> > > Hi Wicketers,
> > > <snip />
> > >
> > > -Thumbs Down to Wicket!
> > >
> > Patches welcome (:
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Igor Vaynberg <ig...@gmail.com>.
>
> We are all getting sucked into this bs needlessly.. and by 'patches
> welcome' I was using a line from this (imho very good) google techtalks
> (Brian Fitzpatrick....) video. It's about poisonous people in open
> source software..
>
> http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645
yeah i hear you. and i have seen the techtalk, got the ref. but i just
didnt want someone who is reading this thread to come up with an ant file
and contribute it, because it would be a waste of their time.
-igor
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>
>
Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by "C. Bergström" <cb...@netsyncro.com>.
Igor Vaynberg wrote:
> -igor
>
>
> On 9/8/07, "C. Bergström" <cb...@netsyncro.com> wrote:
>
>> chickabee wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Wicketers,
>>> <snip />
>>>
>>> -Thumbs Down to Wicket!
>>>
>>>
>> Patches welcome (:
>>
>>
> we dont want a build.xml contribution. we can write one ourselves if need
> be. we are simply not interested in maintaining yet another way to build
> wicket.
>
>
We are all getting sucked into this bs needlessly.. and by 'patches
welcome' I was using a line from this (imho very good) google techtalks
(Brian Fitzpatrick....) video. It's about poisonous people in open
source software..
http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645
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Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by Igor Vaynberg <ig...@gmail.com>.
we dont want a build.xml contribution. we can write one ourselves if need
be. we are simply not interested in maintaining yet another way to build
wicket.
-igor
On 9/8/07, "C. Bergström" <cb...@netsyncro.com> wrote:
>
> chickabee wrote:
> > Hi Wicketers,
> > <snip />
> >
> > -Thumbs Down to Wicket!
> >
> Patches welcome (:
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
Re: First Day Disgust!
Posted by "C. Bergström" <cb...@netsyncro.com>.
chickabee wrote:
> Hi Wicketers,
> <snip />
>
> -Thumbs Down to Wicket!
>
Patches welcome (:
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