Ship java app to windows box

[Billy Ng <kw...@earthlink.net>]

Hi folks,

I really need some opinion here.  We build the web app with java because it is portable, but some of the IT guys really don't like to install tomcat, jdk on their Windows boxes.  My question is if it is common to ship java web app to Windows box with tomcat and jdk.  They said we should not even build the java app in the first place.  They want ASP.  I was shipping products to Unix boxes so I don't know why Windows people will have such complaints.  If you have shipped your java web app to Windows box before, please share your opinion with me.

Thanks!

Billy Ng

Re: Ship java app to windows box

[Billy Ng <kw...@earthlink.net>]

mm... I really need to read the license again.  I don't know why sun let
users to download the JRE like JDK but not redistributable.

I know tomcat is not built for serving static content.  However, it will
make the whole case more complicated to ship the static files to different
web server they use.  The whole idea to build the java web app on tomcat is
we don't want to make different versions for different OSs.  We don't even
want to make special case for web server.

I totally agree it involves some learning on the tomcat and java.  I know a
windows ops guy did not even know how to start tomcat.  I wrote program on
Windows that ran on Novell network before.  After the NT getting more
popular, my program is causing so much trouble on migration.  This is why I
asked how common to ship java web app to windows box.

The management does not give a shit on this issue.  It just the IT depart
complains it.  I am sure they won't make any noise if we ship the app to
Unix box.

Billy Ng

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ola Berg" <ol...@ports.se>
To: "Tomcat Users List" <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: Ship java app to windows box


>My question is if it is common to ship java web app to Windows box with
tomcat and jdk.

Common, I don't know, but it isn't legal (license-wise) to redistribute the
JDK (only the JRE), and the JDK is needed for tomcat.

Second: whíle you can distribute tomcat bundled with your application, you
probably want to integrate with the static web server on site (IIS?).
Someone needs to do the laying-on-hands, be it either you, the IT staff or
some consultant/contractor.

>From an IT perspective, I can see their point. Religious views on OS or not,
you are actually asking them to support a completely new platform and
technology, and that isn't done in a snap. Perhaps do they feel that they
cannot guarantee to deliver at the quality they are used to, should they
have to cope with a technology they don't know.

Tomcat and Java might be easy to admin, but it is not _trivial_ (else why
should we have this list?). There are a couple of new skills and routines
for the IT department to incorporate, and they should be given the time and
motivation to do so. IT folks don't want things in their system that they
don't know how to restart, configure, back-up and in other ways manage.

What do the management say about this? Does anyone stand behind you? What
motivates and controls the selection of supported technologies within the
organization? Who tells the IT folks what they should do?

/O


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RE: Ship java app to windows box

[Greg Trasuk <st...@on.aibn.com>]

Check Sun's licensing pages for JDK/JRE.  They changed it a few months ago
so that you can redistribute tools.jar and a few other things legally.

http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.3/jre/README

Greg Trasuk, President
StratusCom Manufacturing Systems Inc. - We use information technology to
solve business problems on your plant floor.
http://stratuscom.ca

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Steve Stearns [mailto:sterno@bigbrother.net]
>Sent: December 11, 2002 09:18
>To: Tomcat Users List
>Subject: Re: Ship java app to windows box
>
>
>Ola Berg wrote:
>
>>>My question is if it is common to ship java web app to
>Windows box with tomcat and jdk.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Common, I don't know, but it isn't legal (license-wise) to
>redistribute the JDK (only the JRE), and the JDK is needed for tomcat.
>>
>>
>The solution to this problem is to distribute the JRE and then user
>Jikes as your JSP compiler.  This gets around distribution issues.
>
>---Steve
>
>
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>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>For
>additional commands,
>e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>


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Re: Ship java app to windows box

[Steve Stearns <st...@bigbrother.net>]

Ola Berg wrote:

>>My question is if it is common to ship java web app to Windows box with tomcat and jdk.  
>>    
>>
>
>Common, I don't know, but it isn't legal (license-wise) to redistribute the JDK (only the JRE), and the JDK is needed for tomcat. 
>  
>
The solution to this problem is to distribute the JRE and then user 
Jikes as your JSP compiler.  This gets around distribution issues.

---Steve


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Re: Ship java app to windows box

[Ola Berg <ol...@ports.se>]

>My question is if it is common to ship java web app to Windows box with tomcat and jdk.  

Common, I don't know, but it isn't legal (license-wise) to redistribute the JDK (only the JRE), and the JDK is needed for tomcat. 

Second: whíle you can distribute tomcat bundled with your application, you probably want to integrate with the static web server on site (IIS?). Someone needs to do the laying-on-hands, be it either you, the IT staff or some consultant/contractor.

>From an IT perspective, I can see their point. Religious views on OS or not, you are actually asking them to support a completely new platform and technology, and that isn't done in a snap. Perhaps do they feel that they cannot guarantee to deliver at the quality they are used to, should they have to cope with a technology they don't know. 

Tomcat and Java might be easy to admin, but it is not _trivial_ (else why should we have this list?). There are a couple of new skills and routines for the IT department to incorporate, and they should be given the time and motivation to do so. IT folks don't want things in their system that they don't know how to restart, configure, back-up and in other ways manage.

What do the management say about this? Does anyone stand behind you? What motivates and controls the selection of supported technologies within the organization? Who tells the IT folks what they should do?

/O


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Re: Ship java app to windows box

[Steve Stearns <st...@bigbrother.net>]

On Tue, 2002-12-10 at 15:46, Billy Ng wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I really need some opinion here.  We build the web app with java
> because it is portable, but some of the IT guys really don't like to
> install tomcat, jdk on their Windows boxes.  My question is if it is
> common to ship java web app to Windows box with tomcat and jdk.  They
> said we should not even build the java app in the first place.  They
> want ASP.  I was shipping products to Unix boxes so I don't know why
> Windows people will have such complaints.  If you have shipped your
> java web app to Windows box before, please share your opinion with me.

Shipping a java app to windows is common assuming that you aren't intent
on running ASP's.  IIS will integrate with web application servers,
including tomcat, websphere and weblogic.  It makes perefect sense to do
this if Java provides benefits to you that make it a superiror choice to
ASP's.  In your case, the primary benefit seems to be cross-platform
capability, which is something ASP's definitely cannot do.

Running tomcat is an effective and low-cost way of running your java web
application in a windows environment.  If you need to deploy in a
homogenous environment it makes a lot more sense to install Tomcat on
the windows box than to rewrite the entire application to run in two
different environments.  Using tomcat to run a java web application is
really no different than using IIS to run ASP's, it just happens to be
that IIS is pre-installed on windows whereas you actually have to
install Tomcat yourself.   

I've deployed java applications to windows environments many times, and
I've always done so because I wanted to have the flexibility to deploy
on different platforms.  We could have a religious war over whether
ASP's or JSP's are better, but ultimately if cross-platform capability
is important, only one of these is the correct answer.

---Steve



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