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Posted to dev@esme.apache.org by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> on 2009/01/05 10:11:14 UTC
Conference calls, skype, etc...friendly remember that everything must happen on this list
Hi ESME team,
With my mentor hat on: I've seen some mentions of ESME conference
calls, discussions over skype, etc., and I'd just like to remind
people that in Apache projects all decisions and discussions must
happen on the mailing lists.
Of course, most projects have backchannels among project members:
phone, twitter, IRC, coffee machine talk, etc...There's nothing wrong
about that, but it is important that everything discussed over these
"other" channels be reflected here (in summary messages for example),
and more importantly that all decisions happen here and not on those
channels.
The goal is to allow all community members to participate equally in
discussions and decisions.
Feel free to discuss, I hope the intention is clear.
-Bertrand
Update ESME Project page
Posted by "Hirsch, Richard" <ri...@siemens.com>.
Could a committer please update the ESME Project page: http://incubator.apache.org/projects/esme.html. Many of the points have already been performed.
Thanks.
D.
Re: Conference calls, skype, etc...friendly remember that everything must happen on this list
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Anne Kathrine Petteroe
<yo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...As soon as there is anything substantial being discussed on the calls, we
> will post it here in order for everyone to participate in the discussion....
Thanks - that's exactly the idea, I'm glad to see these replies.
-Bertrand
Re: AW: [VOTE] Web UI options
Posted by Anne Kathrine Petteroe <yo...@gmail.com>.
That would be awesome!
I am all for
* Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?.
It makes no sense to me to make an intermediary UI if we can use
Mrinal's UI to bridge the gap.
A.
On 7. jan.. 2009, at 11.17, Hirsch, Richard wrote:
> We could have a Stax-based version up and running quickly. I just
> need the war file from Mrinal.
>
> People who view this version must be made aware that this UI
> probably won't be available after the BillF UI comes.
>
> D.
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Anne Kathrine Petteroe [mailto:yojibee@gmail.com]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 07. Jänner 2009 10:59
> An: esme-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: [VOTE] Web UI options
>
>
> On 7. jan.. 2009, at 10.32, Vassil Dichev wrote:
>
>> Generally I shouldn't be trusted about UI decisions, but it doesn't
>> seem that working on something that will be discarded shortly will
>> pay
>> off. Any pros for using intermediary UI?
>
> Pros would be that I need a better looking UI for demo purposes.
> First of all I have had an interview lined up for 5 weeks already,
> which I have had to cancel twice because of problems with the COIL
> server.
> Now that the COIL server is no longer there, I don't have an instance
> where I can show off ESME with a better looking UI.
> Not sure for how much longer I can postpone it.
>
> Secondly, my company is very interested in investing in ESME this
> year, but they don't want to take a second look at it until we have a
> more contemporary UI than the current one. I feel it would be a pity
> to throw away a possibility for an investement only because we didn't
> have a UI.
> We don't have any competitors here, so if we really want to, we can
> make it happen.
>
> - Anne
>
>>
>>
>>> * Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
>> +1
>
AW: [VOTE] Web UI options
Posted by "Hirsch, Richard" <ri...@siemens.com>.
We could have a Stax-based version up and running quickly. I just need the war file from Mrinal.
People who view this version must be made aware that this UI probably won't be available after the BillF UI comes.
D.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Anne Kathrine Petteroe [mailto:yojibee@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 07. Jänner 2009 10:59
An: esme-dev@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [VOTE] Web UI options
On 7. jan.. 2009, at 10.32, Vassil Dichev wrote:
> Generally I shouldn't be trusted about UI decisions, but it doesn't
> seem that working on something that will be discarded shortly will pay
> off. Any pros for using intermediary UI?
Pros would be that I need a better looking UI for demo purposes.
First of all I have had an interview lined up for 5 weeks already,
which I have had to cancel twice because of problems with the COIL
server.
Now that the COIL server is no longer there, I don't have an instance
where I can show off ESME with a better looking UI.
Not sure for how much longer I can postpone it.
Secondly, my company is very interested in investing in ESME this
year, but they don't want to take a second look at it until we have a
more contemporary UI than the current one. I feel it would be a pity
to throw away a possibility for an investement only because we didn't
have a UI.
We don't have any competitors here, so if we really want to, we can
make it happen.
- Anne
>
>
>> * Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
> +1
Re: [VOTE] Web UI options
Posted by Anne Kathrine Petteroe <yo...@gmail.com>.
On 7. jan.. 2009, at 10.32, Vassil Dichev wrote:
> Generally I shouldn't be trusted about UI decisions, but it doesn't
> seem that working on something that will be discarded shortly will pay
> off. Any pros for using intermediary UI?
Pros would be that I need a better looking UI for demo purposes.
First of all I have had an interview lined up for 5 weeks already,
which I have had to cancel twice because of problems with the COIL
server.
Now that the COIL server is no longer there, I don't have an instance
where I can show off ESME with a better looking UI.
Not sure for how much longer I can postpone it.
Secondly, my company is very interested in investing in ESME this
year, but they don't want to take a second look at it until we have a
more contemporary UI than the current one. I feel it would be a pity
to throw away a possibility for an investement only because we didn't
have a UI.
We don't have any competitors here, so if we really want to, we can
make it happen.
- Anne
>
>
>> * Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
> +1
Re: [VOTE] Web UI options
Posted by Vassil Dichev <vd...@apache.org>.
Generally I shouldn't be trusted about UI decisions, but it doesn't
seem that working on something that will be discarded shortly will pay
off. Any pros for using intermediary UI?
>* Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
+1
Re: [VOTE] Web UI options
Posted by Anne Kathrine Petteroe <yo...@gmail.com>.
The votes so far:
* Create an intermediary UI
+1
* Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
+5
Bill suggested this, so I would like to add this to the vote. (and
cast my vote for this suggestion)
o On the other hand, if the UI code (HTML, CSS, JavaScript, etc.)
would have to be redone from scratch, then maybe we can create an
interim UI that is also the first step in the evolution of the "BillF"
UI, and pursue both goals with one action.
The UI code will have to be redone from scratch, as the old/Mrinal's
UI code still contains Kirsten's graphics.
- Anne
On 7. jan.. 2009, at 18.12, David Pollak wrote:
> My vote: Create an intermediate UI.
>
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:17 AM, Hirsch, Richard <richard.hirsch@siemens.com
>> wrote:
>
>> Last night on the scrum call, we were discussing various options
>> for the
>> Web UI and I wanted to summarize what we were discussing and ask the
>> community on what option we should follow.
>>
>> -Situation-
>>
>> We currently have a Web UI running at the main ESME server at
>> http://esme.us. This version is very early iteration and has various
>> issues associated with it. It is also based on the old core code
>> based
>> at the Google Code site. We now have a new new ESME core code base
>> which is located at Apache. This version of the code at Apache is the
>> most recent code base and includes a better split between UI and
>> server
>> code. The Apache version, however, currently doesn't have UI code in
>> such maturity that we could use it to replace the existing Web site
>> at
>> esme.us. Bill has also created a description of a new ESME UI which
>> probably depicts what the next UI is going to look like. This
>> description is currently incomplete inasmuch as certain UI features
>> are
>> still not depicted.
>>
>> -Vote-
>>
>> The vote deals with the decision whether we want to build an
>> intermediary Web-UI based on the existing Apache Core or whether we
>> want
>> to skip the intermediary Web UI and focus on the "BillF" UI?
>>
>> Choices (Please Vote!):
>>
>> * Create an intermediary UI
>>
>> * Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
>>
>> Once the community makes a decision on this issue, we will define the
>> associated tasks to support the decision.
>>
>> Dick
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
> Collaborative Task Management http://much4.us
> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
> Git some: http://github.com/dpp
Re: [VOTE] Web UI options
Posted by David Pollak <fe...@gmail.com>.
My vote: Create an intermediate UI.
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:17 AM, Hirsch, Richard <richard.hirsch@siemens.com
> wrote:
> Last night on the scrum call, we were discussing various options for the
> Web UI and I wanted to summarize what we were discussing and ask the
> community on what option we should follow.
>
> -Situation-
>
> We currently have a Web UI running at the main ESME server at
> http://esme.us. This version is very early iteration and has various
> issues associated with it. It is also based on the old core code based
> at the Google Code site. We now have a new new ESME core code base
> which is located at Apache. This version of the code at Apache is the
> most recent code base and includes a better split between UI and server
> code. The Apache version, however, currently doesn't have UI code in
> such maturity that we could use it to replace the existing Web site at
> esme.us. Bill has also created a description of a new ESME UI which
> probably depicts what the next UI is going to look like. This
> description is currently incomplete inasmuch as certain UI features are
> still not depicted.
>
> -Vote-
>
> The vote deals with the decision whether we want to build an
> intermediary Web-UI based on the existing Apache Core or whether we want
> to skip the intermediary Web UI and focus on the "BillF" UI?
>
> Choices (Please Vote!):
>
> * Create an intermediary UI
>
> * Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
>
> Once the community makes a decision on this issue, we will define the
> associated tasks to support the decision.
>
> Dick
>
>
>
--
Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
Collaborative Task Management http://much4.us
Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
Git some: http://github.com/dpp
Re: AW: [VOTE] Web UI options
Posted by Daniel Koller <da...@googlemail.com>.
* Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
+1
Daniel
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Anne Kathrine Petteroe
<yo...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Do we have the UI Mrinal created last autumn hosted somewhere?
> And if not, could we?
> I really need a better looking UI than the one which is up on esme.us now
> for demo purposes in the next coming weeks.
>
> - Anne
>
>
> On 7. jan.. 2009, at 09.49, Hirsch, Richard wrote:
>
> I agree.
>>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: Mrinal Wadhwa [mailto:mrinal.wadhwa@gmail.com]
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 07. Jänner 2009 09:47
>> An: esme-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Betreff: Re: [VOTE] Web UI options
>>
>> +1 Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
>>
>> I don't think an intermediate UI would be worth the effort
>>
>> Mrinal
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Hirsch, Richard
>> <ri...@siemens.com>wrote:
>>
>> * Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
>>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> D.
>>>
>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: Hirsch, Richard
>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 07. Jänner 2009 09:18
>>> An: esme-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Betreff: [VOTE] Web UI options
>>>
>>> Last night on the scrum call, we were discussing various options for the
>>> Web UI and I wanted to summarize what we were discussing and ask the
>>> community on what option we should follow.
>>>
>>> -Situation-
>>>
>>> We currently have a Web UI running at the main ESME server at
>>> http://esme.us. This version is very early iteration and has various
>>> issues associated with it. It is also based on the old core code based
>>> at the Google Code site. We now have a new new ESME core code base
>>> which is located at Apache. This version of the code at Apache is the
>>> most recent code base and includes a better split between UI and server
>>> code. The Apache version, however, currently doesn't have UI code in
>>> such maturity that we could use it to replace the existing Web site at
>>> esme.us. Bill has also created a description of a new ESME UI which
>>> probably depicts what the next UI is going to look like. This
>>> description is currently incomplete inasmuch as certain UI features are
>>> still not depicted.
>>>
>>> -Vote-
>>>
>>> The vote deals with the decision whether we want to build an
>>> intermediary Web-UI based on the existing Apache Core or whether we want
>>> to skip the intermediary Web UI and focus on the "BillF" UI?
>>>
>>> Choices (Please Vote!):
>>>
>>> * Create an intermediary UI
>>>
>>> * Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
>>>
>>> Once the community makes a decision on this issue, we will define the
>>> associated tasks to support the decision.
>>>
>>> Dick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
--
---
Daniel Koller
Jahnstrasse 20
80469 München * dakoller@googlemail.com
Re: AW: [VOTE] Web UI options
Posted by Anne Kathrine Petteroe <yo...@gmail.com>.
Do we have the UI Mrinal created last autumn hosted somewhere?
And if not, could we?
I really need a better looking UI than the one which is up on esme.us
now for demo purposes in the next coming weeks.
- Anne
On 7. jan.. 2009, at 09.49, Hirsch, Richard wrote:
> I agree.
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Mrinal Wadhwa [mailto:mrinal.wadhwa@gmail.com]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 07. Jänner 2009 09:47
> An: esme-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: [VOTE] Web UI options
>
> +1 Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
>
> I don't think an intermediate UI would be worth the effort
>
> Mrinal
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Hirsch, Richard
> <ri...@siemens.com>wrote:
>
>>> * Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
>> +1
>>
>> D.
>>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: Hirsch, Richard
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 07. Jänner 2009 09:18
>> An: esme-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Betreff: [VOTE] Web UI options
>>
>> Last night on the scrum call, we were discussing various options
>> for the
>> Web UI and I wanted to summarize what we were discussing and ask the
>> community on what option we should follow.
>>
>> -Situation-
>>
>> We currently have a Web UI running at the main ESME server at
>> http://esme.us. This version is very early iteration and has various
>> issues associated with it. It is also based on the old core code
>> based
>> at the Google Code site. We now have a new new ESME core code base
>> which is located at Apache. This version of the code at Apache is the
>> most recent code base and includes a better split between UI and
>> server
>> code. The Apache version, however, currently doesn't have UI code in
>> such maturity that we could use it to replace the existing Web site
>> at
>> esme.us. Bill has also created a description of a new ESME UI which
>> probably depicts what the next UI is going to look like. This
>> description is currently incomplete inasmuch as certain UI features
>> are
>> still not depicted.
>>
>> -Vote-
>>
>> The vote deals with the decision whether we want to build an
>> intermediary Web-UI based on the existing Apache Core or whether we
>> want
>> to skip the intermediary Web UI and focus on the "BillF" UI?
>>
>> Choices (Please Vote!):
>>
>> * Create an intermediary UI
>>
>> * Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
>>
>> Once the community makes a decision on this issue, we will define the
>> associated tasks to support the decision.
>>
>> Dick
>>
>>
>>
AW: [VOTE] Web UI options
Posted by "Hirsch, Richard" <ri...@siemens.com>.
I agree.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Mrinal Wadhwa [mailto:mrinal.wadhwa@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 07. Jänner 2009 09:47
An: esme-dev@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [VOTE] Web UI options
+1 Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
I don't think an intermediate UI would be worth the effort
Mrinal
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Hirsch, Richard
<ri...@siemens.com>wrote:
> >* Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
> +1
>
> D.
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Hirsch, Richard
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 07. Jänner 2009 09:18
> An: esme-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: [VOTE] Web UI options
>
> Last night on the scrum call, we were discussing various options for the
> Web UI and I wanted to summarize what we were discussing and ask the
> community on what option we should follow.
>
> -Situation-
>
> We currently have a Web UI running at the main ESME server at
> http://esme.us. This version is very early iteration and has various
> issues associated with it. It is also based on the old core code based
> at the Google Code site. We now have a new new ESME core code base
> which is located at Apache. This version of the code at Apache is the
> most recent code base and includes a better split between UI and server
> code. The Apache version, however, currently doesn't have UI code in
> such maturity that we could use it to replace the existing Web site at
> esme.us. Bill has also created a description of a new ESME UI which
> probably depicts what the next UI is going to look like. This
> description is currently incomplete inasmuch as certain UI features are
> still not depicted.
>
> -Vote-
>
> The vote deals with the decision whether we want to build an
> intermediary Web-UI based on the existing Apache Core or whether we want
> to skip the intermediary Web UI and focus on the "BillF" UI?
>
> Choices (Please Vote!):
>
> * Create an intermediary UI
>
> * Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
>
> Once the community makes a decision on this issue, we will define the
> associated tasks to support the decision.
>
> Dick
>
>
>
Re: [VOTE] Web UI options
Posted by Mrinal Wadhwa <mr...@gmail.com>.
+1 Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
I don't think an intermediate UI would be worth the effort
Mrinal
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Hirsch, Richard
<ri...@siemens.com>wrote:
> >* Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
> +1
>
> D.
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Hirsch, Richard
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 07. Jänner 2009 09:18
> An: esme-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: [VOTE] Web UI options
>
> Last night on the scrum call, we were discussing various options for the
> Web UI and I wanted to summarize what we were discussing and ask the
> community on what option we should follow.
>
> -Situation-
>
> We currently have a Web UI running at the main ESME server at
> http://esme.us. This version is very early iteration and has various
> issues associated with it. It is also based on the old core code based
> at the Google Code site. We now have a new new ESME core code base
> which is located at Apache. This version of the code at Apache is the
> most recent code base and includes a better split between UI and server
> code. The Apache version, however, currently doesn't have UI code in
> such maturity that we could use it to replace the existing Web site at
> esme.us. Bill has also created a description of a new ESME UI which
> probably depicts what the next UI is going to look like. This
> description is currently incomplete inasmuch as certain UI features are
> still not depicted.
>
> -Vote-
>
> The vote deals with the decision whether we want to build an
> intermediary Web-UI based on the existing Apache Core or whether we want
> to skip the intermediary Web UI and focus on the "BillF" UI?
>
> Choices (Please Vote!):
>
> * Create an intermediary UI
>
> * Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
>
> Once the community makes a decision on this issue, we will define the
> associated tasks to support the decision.
>
> Dick
>
>
>
AW: [VOTE] Web UI options
Posted by "Hirsch, Richard" <ri...@siemens.com>.
>* Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
+1
D.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Hirsch, Richard
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 07. Jänner 2009 09:18
An: esme-dev@incubator.apache.org
Betreff: [VOTE] Web UI options
Last night on the scrum call, we were discussing various options for the
Web UI and I wanted to summarize what we were discussing and ask the
community on what option we should follow.
-Situation-
We currently have a Web UI running at the main ESME server at
http://esme.us. This version is very early iteration and has various
issues associated with it. It is also based on the old core code based
at the Google Code site. We now have a new new ESME core code base
which is located at Apache. This version of the code at Apache is the
most recent code base and includes a better split between UI and server
code. The Apache version, however, currently doesn't have UI code in
such maturity that we could use it to replace the existing Web site at
esme.us. Bill has also created a description of a new ESME UI which
probably depicts what the next UI is going to look like. This
description is currently incomplete inasmuch as certain UI features are
still not depicted.
-Vote-
The vote deals with the decision whether we want to build an
intermediary Web-UI based on the existing Apache Core or whether we want
to skip the intermediary Web UI and focus on the "BillF" UI?
Choices (Please Vote!):
* Create an intermediary UI
* Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
Once the community makes a decision on this issue, we will define the
associated tasks to support the decision.
Dick
[VOTE] Web UI options
Posted by "Hirsch, Richard" <ri...@siemens.com>.
Last night on the scrum call, we were discussing various options for the
Web UI and I wanted to summarize what we were discussing and ask the
community on what option we should follow.
-Situation-
We currently have a Web UI running at the main ESME server at
http://esme.us. This version is very early iteration and has various
issues associated with it. It is also based on the old core code based
at the Google Code site. We now have a new new ESME core code base
which is located at Apache. This version of the code at Apache is the
most recent code base and includes a better split between UI and server
code. The Apache version, however, currently doesn't have UI code in
such maturity that we could use it to replace the existing Web site at
esme.us. Bill has also created a description of a new ESME UI which
probably depicts what the next UI is going to look like. This
description is currently incomplete inasmuch as certain UI features are
still not depicted.
-Vote-
The vote deals with the decision whether we want to build an
intermediary Web-UI based on the existing Apache Core or whether we want
to skip the intermediary Web UI and focus on the "BillF" UI?
Choices (Please Vote!):
* Create an intermediary UI
* Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
Once the community makes a decision on this issue, we will define the
associated tasks to support the decision.
Dick
RE: [VOTE] Web UI options
Posted by "Hirsch, Richard" <ri...@siemens.com>.
I think your final option is an excellent suggestion and aligns with what Darren suggested as well. :
o On the other hand, if the UI code (HTML, CSS, JavaScript, etc.) would have to be redone from scratch, then maybe we can create an interim UI that is also the first step in the evolution of the "BillF" UI, and pursue both goals with one action.
P.S: I'm going to forward this to the esme-dev list, so that others can see your suggestions as well. The first VOTE mail was just sent to you when I intended to be sent to you and the common mailing list.
D.
________________________________
From: Bill Fernandez [mailto:bill@billfernandez.com]
Sent: Wed 1/7/2009 17:19
To: Hirsch, Richard
Cc: Bill Fernandez
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Web UI options
Dick--
I'm not knowledgeable enough about the project roadmap to be able to
make a clear vote, but here are my thoughts.
o I think good UIs for installing, administering and using ESME will
be critical to the success of the project. I also think these will
take quite awhile to develop, and will need to be matured in stages.
o If the UI code associated with the Apache version works well enough
for now, maybe we should leave it as is and spend our time on
developing what we really need in the long-term for ESME success.
o On the other hand if the UI code associated with the Apache version
is not good enough to serve those who want to evaluate/use ESME as it
is now, then maybe we should rush out an interim version that
provides the minimum necessary functionality and usability.
o If rushing out an interim version would be accomplished by tweaking
the existing code, then that would be the fastest way to put the
end-user UI in a state where it could last for awhile as we develop
our long-term solution.
o On the other hand, if the UI code (HTML, CSS, JavaScript, etc.)
would have to be redone from scratch, then maybe we can create an
interim UI that is also the first step in the evolution of the
"BillF" UI, and pursue both goals with one action.
Does that help?
--Bill
At 8:52 AM +0100 1/7/09, Hirsch, Richard wrote:
Last night on the scrum call, we were discussing various options for
the Web UI and I wanted to summarize what we were discussing and ask
the community on what option we should follow.
-Situation-
We currently have a Web UI running at the main ESME server at
<http://esme.us <http://esme.us/> >http://esme.us <http://esme.us/> . This version is very early iteration
and has various issues associated with it. It is also based on the
old core code based at the Google Code site. We now have a new new
ESME core code base which is located at Apache. This version of the
code at Apache is the most recent code base and includes a better
split between UI and server code. The Apache version, however,
currently doesn't have UI code in such maturity that we could use it
to replace the existing Web site at esme.us. Bill has also created a
description of a new ESME UI which probably depicts what the next UI
is going to look like. This description is currently incomplete
inasmuch as certain UI features are still not depicted.
-Vote-
The vote deals with the decision whether we want to build an
intermediary Web-UI based on the existing Apache Core or whether we
want to skip the intermediary Web UI and focus on the "BillF" UI?
Choices (Please Vote!):
* Create an intermediary UI
* Skip the intermediary Web UI and concentrate on the "BillF" UI?
Once the community makes a decision on this issue, we will define the
associated tasks to support the decision.
Dick
--
======================================================================
Bill Fernandez * User Interface Architect * Bill Fernandez Design
(505) 346-3080 * bill@billfernandez.com * http://billfernandez.com <http://billfernandez.com/>
======================================================================
Re: Conference calls, skype, etc...friendly remember that everything must happen on this list
Posted by Anne Kathrine Petteroe <yo...@gmail.com>.
On 6. jan.. 2009, at 14.14, Vassil Dichev wrote:
> Hi Bertrand,
>
>> Sounds good, but it might be good IMHO to send a summary of those
>> calls to the list, to prevent any feeling of things happening behind
>> the scenes - especially later when new people join the project.
>
> Absolutely agree, this transparency sets the right environment for
> cooperation. Actually, I have rarely been present e.g. at the scrum
> calls (won't be able to make it today again, sorry) and was still able
> to participate in development. I think the team is doing a good job of
> communicating (ultimately, that's the goal of ESME as a software
> project), though it might be a challenge in the future.
>
> I will do my best to communicate everything that goes on outside the
> mailing lists here (and I'm confident so will the whole ESME team).
Just to clarify.
We haven't had any proper scrum calls/conference calls since we got
accepted into Apache Incubator.
In average we were two or three people on some calls in December.
The last question on each call was whether or not to write a summary
and post it here.
The nature of the calls were however more personal, so we decided not
to "spam" this mailing list with our meeting minutes.
As soon as there is anything substantial being discussed on the calls,
we will post it here in order for everyone to participate in the
discussion.
- Anne
>
>
> Vassil
Re: Conference calls, skype, etc...friendly remember that everything must happen on this list
Posted by Vassil Dichev <vd...@apache.org>.
Hi Bertrand,
> Sounds good, but it might be good IMHO to send a summary of those
> calls to the list, to prevent any feeling of things happening behind
> the scenes - especially later when new people join the project.
Absolutely agree, this transparency sets the right environment for
cooperation. Actually, I have rarely been present e.g. at the scrum
calls (won't be able to make it today again, sorry) and was still able
to participate in development. I think the team is doing a good job of
communicating (ultimately, that's the goal of ESME as a software
project), though it might be a challenge in the future.
I will do my best to communicate everything that goes on outside the
mailing lists here (and I'm confident so will the whole ESME team).
Vassil
Re: Conference calls, skype, etc...friendly remember that everything must happen on this list
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi David,
On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 3:47 PM, David Pollak
<fe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...As you can see from the non-trivial amount of ESME chatter, we do make
> decisions on the list...
Agreed, as I said my message is nothing more than a friendly reminder
to make sure everybody's aware of the role of this list.
> ...From the first days of the ESME project, we've also had scrum calls. These
> calls are not so much decision-making as they are synchronization points.
> They allow us a higher bandwidth form of communications that allow us to
> "get a vibe" of the challenges that team members are facing and also to
> cheer different team members on....
Sounds good, but it might be good IMHO to send a summary of those
calls to the list, to prevent any feeling of things happening behind
the scenes - especially later when new people join the project.
> ...We are respecting the spirit and the letter of the Apache rules, but we are
> also keeping to our various time-tested rituals that have helped forge the
> ESME team....
Sounds good - thanks for your reply!
-Bertrand
Re: Conference calls, skype, etc...friendly remember that everything must happen on this list
Posted by David Pollak <fe...@gmail.com>.
Bertrand,
As you can see from the non-trivial amount of ESME chatter, we do make
decisions on the list.
>From the first days of the ESME project, we've also had scrum calls. These
calls are not so much decision-making as they are synchronization points.
They allow us a higher bandwidth form of communications that allow us to
"get a vibe" of the challenges that team members are facing and also to
cheer different team members on. These were extremely valuable tools during
certain amazingly tough pushes (like the 3 weeks before the first public
demo of ESME which took place in front of 6,000 people.)
We are respecting the spirit and the letter of the Apache rules, but we are
also keeping to our various time-tested rituals that have helped forge the
ESME team.
Thanks,
David
On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@apache.org>wrote:
> Hi ESME team,
>
> With my mentor hat on: I've seen some mentions of ESME conference
> calls, discussions over skype, etc., and I'd just like to remind
> people that in Apache projects all decisions and discussions must
> happen on the mailing lists.
>
> Of course, most projects have backchannels among project members:
> phone, twitter, IRC, coffee machine talk, etc...There's nothing wrong
> about that, but it is important that everything discussed over these
> "other" channels be reflected here (in summary messages for example),
> and more importantly that all decisions happen here and not on those
> channels.
>
> The goal is to allow all community members to participate equally in
> discussions and decisions.
>
> Feel free to discuss, I hope the intention is clear.
>
> -Bertrand
>
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