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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by John Peacock <jp...@rowman.com> on 2004/05/10 14:24:53 UTC
Re: Subversion error "Can't determine the user's config path" on
windows
Jens Hoffrichter wrote:
> I have a Windows laptop which is normally integrated in a windows domain
> and I have a drive H: on the server, which is my home dir.
>
Subversion stores user configuration files in your home directory. Since you
have stored your home directory on a network drive, if you don't have access to
that network drive (like when you are at home), there is no way for Subversion
to load those files. QED
One way to get around this would be to copy the .subversion directory out of
your network H: drive into a folder on your laptop, then redefine the
environment variable HOME when working off network to point to that folder.
Depending on your actual Windows client, you may be able to just make that
changed permanently in your user configuration, and your login script will
override that variable when connected to the network.
In any case, this isn't really a Subversion problem at all...
HTH
John
--
John Peacock
Director of Information Research and Technology
Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group
4501 Forbes Boulevard
Suite H
Lanham, MD 20706
301-459-3366 x.5010
fax 301-429-5748
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RE: Subversion error "Can't determine the user's config path" on windows
Posted by Mark <ma...@msdhub.com>.
While it may be true that the average Windows user has no idea (and doesn't
care) how things are implemented, I'd say that that's not true for the
average user that uses Subversion. A developer is much more likely to be
familiar with the way things are working under the hood.
While it is true that different versions of Windows have changed things,
sometimes quite substantially, isn't it true that different flavors of *NIX
and even different distributions of linux do things in even more different
ways? Witness all the problems that list list sees that have to do with
versions of BDB installed in various places!
I'd say that there should be no information stored in the registry. Even MS
doesn't recommend it anymore. Subversion stores its data exactly where it
should. Under *NIX it's /home/user, in Windows it's Documents and
Settings/user. I don't see why that's such a big crisis.
I won't respond to your comment about the security of Windows. We all know
that no OS has a perfect record there.
I do, however, completely disagree with your view of what a ported program
should do. It should behave on any given platform as though it was written
specifically for that platform. Granted, that's a Hard Thing(r), but that's
the ideal. No user should have to learn a different way of doing things
because that's how it works on some other platform.
You also propose a "solution" that says Subversion should make up it's own
way of working that's completely different from ANY of the platforms it runs
on. I don't see how that makes sense. I think that the current way of
working is just fine. If there were any changes to be made, I'd remove the
option of storing anything in the registry on Windows.
John, you obviously have a lot of knowledge and experience in the industry.
You don't have to like Windows, but your (blatant) hatred of the most common
platform in the world only serves to discredit you.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: John Peacock [mailto:jpeacock@rowman.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 7:43 AM
To: Jeremy Pereira
Cc: Branko Čibej; users@subversion.tigris.org
Subject: Re: Subversion error "Can't determine the user's config path" on
windows
Windows users, in general, don't have a clue how anything is implemented
(sorry,
but it's true)! For the amount of data that is stored in the .subversion
folder, it is just as reasonable to argue that it should be stored
exclusively
in the registry. I'm not going there, BTW. ;~)
IMNSHO, one of the major problems for people who _do_ know what is being
done
under the hood is the fact that there are more than one way to do things
under
Windows. There is a moving "Windows Way" target which depends on which
release
of the OS and sometimes which Patch level (to fix the numerous secutity
failings). Often there are system calls which hide this unnecessary
complexity,
but not always.
A proper port isn't always about making the program work using the most
finely
gradated platform specific features. It should be about making the program
work
identically _in spite of_ platform differences. I would be happy with a
SVNHOME
environment variable which would preempt the "Windows" handling; the default
install still does things the current way, but it allows people who want to
do
something different a way around that.
John
--
John Peacock
Director of Information Research and Technology
Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group
4501 Forbes Boulevard
Suite H
Lanham, MD 20706
301-459-3366 x.5010
fax 301-429-5748
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Re: Subversion error "Can't determine the user's config path" on
windows
Posted by John Peacock <jp...@rowman.com>.
Jeremy Pereira wrote:
> Windows users, in general, are used to the Windows way of doing things.
> Properly ported applications on Windows should adhere to Windows
> conventions.
Windows users, in general, don't have a clue how anything is implemented (sorry,
but it's true)! For the amount of data that is stored in the .subversion
folder, it is just as reasonable to argue that it should be stored exclusively
in the registry. I'm not going there, BTW. ;~)
IMNSHO, one of the major problems for people who _do_ know what is being done
under the hood is the fact that there are more than one way to do things under
Windows. There is a moving "Windows Way" target which depends on which release
of the OS and sometimes which Patch level (to fix the numerous secutity
failings). Often there are system calls which hide this unnecessary complexity,
but not always.
A proper port isn't always about making the program work using the most finely
gradated platform specific features. It should be about making the program work
identically _in spite of_ platform differences. I would be happy with a SVNHOME
environment variable which would preempt the "Windows" handling; the default
install still does things the current way, but it allows people who want to do
something different a way around that.
John
--
John Peacock
Director of Information Research and Technology
Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group
4501 Forbes Boulevard
Suite H
Lanham, MD 20706
301-459-3366 x.5010
fax 301-429-5748
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: Subversion error "Can't determine the user's config path" on windows
Posted by Jeremy Pereira <je...@jeremyp.net>.
>
> It's the one that makes the most sense from the cross platform
> standpoint (since it mirrors what native Cygwin and Linux
> installations do). There is a point where using the default Windows
> implementation gets in the way; I am not as interested in doing things
> "the Windows way" just because that is the Windows way...
Windows users, in general, are used to the Windows way of doing things.
Properly ported applications on Windows should adhere to Windows
conventions. That way, if nothing else, the Windows users will
complain about brain dead Windows instead of brain dead subversion.
--
Jeremy Pereira
http://www.jeremyp.net
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Re: Subversion error "Can't determine the user's config path" on
windows
Posted by John Peacock <jp...@rowman.com>.
Branko Čibej wrote:
> Contrariwise, someone with a roaming profile will be very happy to see
> her Subversion settings migrate with everything else when she switches
> to another machine. And I'd say this use case is much more common than
> yours (which only happens in places where someone didn't *think* before
> setting up the domain topology).
We are in the process of moving from one [lightly populated] domain for the
company to one domain for each location (due to domain "enhanced" applications).
The more junk we need to copy out of %APPDATA%, the harder it is to move a
user, and the more likely that something will be missed. This isn't an
objection specific to Subversion, but rather a dislike of the architecture in
general (and it's changing implementation over the years since NT => W2k => XP).
As a rule I don't like user configuration files buried deep within the
filesystem. It makes moving users from machine to machine very tedious. I have
not been happy with the performance of roaming profiles in general, either.
YMMV ;~)
> I'd consider an option that would let the user specify a different
> config directory on Windows, but I'm not sure %HOME% is the right way to
> go.
It's the one that makes the most sense from the cross platform standpoint (since
it mirrors what native Cygwin and Linux installations do). There is a point
where using the default Windows implementation gets in the way; I am not as
interested in doing things "the Windows way" just because that is the Windows way...
John
--
John Peacock
Director of Information Research and Technology
Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group
4501 Forbes Boulevard
Suite H
Lanham, MD 20706
301-459-3366 x.5010
fax 301-429-5748
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
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Re: Subversion error "Can't determine the user's config path" on
windows
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@xbc.nu>.
John Peacock wrote:
> p.s. FWIW, I think that Subversion /should/ pay attention to HOME and
> only fall back to the abomination that is %USERPROFILE% as a last
> resort. I can log into multiple domains, so I have multiple
> %USERPROFILE% trees on a given box. I would prefer to have a single
> shared %HOME% directory for all profiles, which using the idiotic
> Win32 structure is impossible (or at least very difficult)
Contrariwise, soneone with a roaming profile will be very happy to see
her Subversion settings migrate with everything else when she switches
to another machine. And I'd say this use case is much more common than
yours (which only happens in places where someone didn't *think* before
setting up the domain topology).
I'd consider an option that would let the user specify a different
config directory on Windows, but I'm not sure %HOME% is the right way to
go. Perhaps a magic file in %APPDATA%/Subversion? Oh wait, you can turn
that directory into a junction today, unless you're on NT4...
Suggestions welcome. But more than one, please :-)
-- Brane
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Re: Subversion error "Can't determine the user's config path" on
windows
Posted by John Peacock <jp...@rowman.com>.
Branko Čibej wrote:
> To be more precise, your %USERPROFILE% directory, and hence your
> %APPDATA%, are on a network drive that isn't accessible when you're not
> at the office. It's a wonder you can get anything done at home, because
> lots of programs besides Subversion use those directories.
Sorry, I sort of assumed that Subversion _even on Windows_ would pay attention
to the environment variable HOME if it was available. I should have checked
before sending anything.
Sorry
John
p.s. FWIW, I think that Subversion /should/ pay attention to HOME and only fall
back to the abomination that is %USERPROFILE% as a last resort. I can log into
multiple domains, so I have multiple %USERPROFILE% trees on a given box. I
would prefer to have a single shared %HOME% directory for all profiles, which
using the idiotic Win32 structure is impossible (or at least very difficult)
--
John Peacock
Director of Information Research and Technology
Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group
4501 Forbes Boulevard
Suite H
Lanham, MD 20706
301-459-3366 x.5010
fax 301-429-5748
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: Subversion error "Can't determine the user's config path" on
windows
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@xbc.nu>.
John Peacock wrote:
> Jens Hoffrichter wrote:
>
>> I have a Windows laptop which is normally integrated in a windows domain
>> and I have a drive H: on the server, which is my home dir.
>>
>
> Subversion stores user configuration files in your home directory.
> Since you have stored your home directory on a network drive, if you
> don't have access to that network drive (like when you are at home),
> there is no way for Subversion to load those files. QED
>
> One way to get around this would be to copy the .subversion directory
> out of your network H: drive into a folder on your laptop, then
> redefine the environment variable HOME when working off network to
> point to that folder. Depending on your actual Windows client, you may
> be able to just make that changed permanently in your user
> configuration, and your login script will override that variable when
> connected to the network.
Well, you just managed to confue this poor user by talking about HOME
and .subversion, neither of which are relevant on Windows...
To be more precise, your %USERPROFILE% directory, and hence your
%APPDATA%, are on a network drive that isn't accessible when you're not
at the office. It's a wonder you can get anything done at home, because
lots of programs besides Subversion use those directories.
> In any case, this isn't really a Subversion problem at all...
I'll agree with that.
-- Brane
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