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Posted to users@cocoon.apache.org by Jason Lane <ja...@root10.net> on 2004/05/28 01:22:25 UTC
Possible Live site??
Hi there list[s],
The other night I got a mail shot from formsPlayer, I must have handed
over my details at some point ;) Anyway I went to their site:
http://www.formsplayer.com/index.html
It really looks like a Cocoon / Forrest site (actually I think it's
Forrest, the html comments style and general design style gives it
away?), anyway I looked on the apache site briefly, both on Cocoon &
Forrest and couldn't see it listed. Is this a Cocoon / Forrest site?
If it is it should be listed in either Cocoon or Forrest, it's a nice
site.
If you already know about this please ignore.
Jason Lane
Developer
Root10 developments
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Re: Possible Live site??
Posted by Jason Lane <ja...@root10.net>.
On 28 May 2004, at 00:38, Joerg Heinicke wrote:
> On 28.05.2004 01:22, Jason Lane wrote:
>
>> Hi there list[s],
>> The other night I got a mail shot from formsPlayer, I must have
>> handed over my details at some point ;) Anyway I went to their site:
>> http://www.formsplayer.com/index.html
>> It really looks like a Cocoon / Forrest site (actually I think it's
>> Forrest, the html comments style and general design style gives it
>> away?), anyway I looked on the apache site briefly, both on Cocoon &
>> Forrest and couldn't see it listed. Is this a Cocoon / Forrest site?
>> If it is it should be listed in either Cocoon or Forrest, it's a nice
>> site.
>
> We add the pages only on request of their "owner".
Yes that makes perfect sense.
Well the only reason I raised this is because I believe the community
has an awesome product, maturing into elegance. Good exposure does the
community no harm.
> Maybe someone does not want to be listed like the German department
> of a worldwide operating company - the people attending Cocoon GT 2003
> know which company I'm talking about.
A shame.
P.S My app will be ready in a month or so, I will be proud to be
associated with this project.
>
> Joerg
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>
>
>
Jason Lane
Developer
Root10 developments
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Possible Live site??
Posted by Joerg Heinicke <jo...@gmx.de>.
On 28.05.2004 01:22, Jason Lane wrote:
> Hi there list[s],
>
> The other night I got a mail shot from formsPlayer, I must have handed
> over my details at some point ;) Anyway I went to their site:
>
> http://www.formsplayer.com/index.html
>
> It really looks like a Cocoon / Forrest site (actually I think it's
> Forrest, the html comments style and general design style gives it
> away?), anyway I looked on the apache site briefly, both on Cocoon &
> Forrest and couldn't see it listed. Is this a Cocoon / Forrest site?
>
> If it is it should be listed in either Cocoon or Forrest, it's a nice site.
We add the pages only on request of their "owner". Maybe someone does
not want to be listed like the German department of a worldwide
operating company - the people attending Cocoon GT 2003 know which
company I'm talking about.
Joerg
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RE: [Proposal] Forrest Signature in HTML source
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Brian S. Hayes wrote:
> > I added the following tags:
> > <meta name="Forrest-version" content="SVN-Head (revision 20645)"/>
> > <meta name="Forrest-skin-name" content="Krysalis-site"/>
> >
> > IMO the version-tag of Forrest is a story for its own. That should be
> > automatic where else the other tag do not have to be. I thing something
> > like <meta name="Forrest-version" content="{version}"/> would be great.
> > The {version}-parameter should be resolved by forrest so you won't have
> > to touch it if you use e.g. the SVN-Head. Dunno right now how to do it
> > but WDYT? Brian do you have any ideas on that?
>
> I'm not familiar enough with Forrest (or Coccon) to know how to get the SVN
> version. I know that SVN has a number of keywords that can be substituted
> with appropriate values on file check out; but, in my very brief research, I
> did not see one that tells you the head revision number. We should research
> this further before we look into alternative approaches (for packaged
> releases version numbers, build numbers, etc., can simply be put into
> appropriate files by hand or by script).
It should be able to be automated by our build system.
Can Ant run an operating system command and parse the result?
If so, then doing 'svn info' at the top-level will do it.
If not, then getting Ant to apply a stylesheet to
the top-level .svn/entries to extract the first <entry>
and getting the "revision" attribute.
> As far as what names we use, I am not sure that Forrest-version is good or
> not. From a 1997 census (http://vancouver-webpages.com/META/bycount.shtml)
> I see the following names that might be applicable: generator, formatter,
> build, and version. If we want to reduce the chance of un-intended
> overwriting, by skin author's/hackers, of Forrest information, then
> prefixing some of the Forrest related meta data is a good idea (like
> "Forrest-version").
Perhaps ... <meta name="generator"
content="Forrest-version: 0.6-dev: SVN trunk revision 20645"/>
The "trunk" and "revision" can be obtained via 'svn info'.
The "Forrest version" is an Ant build property, i think.
> Random thought: we might want to research the inclusion of some RDF such as
> the Dublin Core.
I thought that the aim was to have an infrastructure that
could add various information to the head of html and that
the "generator" meta tag was just one bit.
But hey, whatever you can come up with is good. It can be
enhanced later.
--David
RE: [Proposal] Forrest Signature in HTML source
Posted by "Brian S. Hayes" <br...@comcast.net>.
> I added the following tags:
> <meta name="Forrest-version" content="SVN-Head (revision 20645)"/>
> <meta name="Forrest-skin-name" content="Krysalis-site"/>
>
> IMO the version-tag of Forrest is a story for its own. That should be
> automatic where else the other tag do not have to be. I thing something
> like <meta name="Forrest-version" content="{version}"/> would be great.
> The {version}-parameter should be resolved by forrest so you won't have
> to touch it if you use e.g. the SVN-Head. Dunno right now how to do it
> but WDYT? Brian do you have any ideas on that?
I'm not familiar enough with Forrest (or Coccon) to know how to get the SVN
version. I know that SVN has a number of keywords that can be substituted
with appropriate values on file check out; but, in my very brief research, I
did not see one that tells you the head revision number. We should research
this further before we look into alternative approaches (for packaged
releases version numbers, build numbers, etc., can simply be put into
appropriate files by hand or by script).
As far as what names we use, I am not sure that Forrest-version is good or
not. From a 1997 census (http://vancouver-webpages.com/META/bycount.shtml)
I see the following names that might be applicable: generator, formatter,
build, and version. If we want to reduce the chance of un-intended
overwriting, by skin author's/hackers, of Forrest information, then
prefixing some of the Forrest related meta data is a good idea (like
"Forrest-version").
Random thought: we might want to research the inclusion of some RDF such as
the Dublin Core.
Re: [Proposal] Forrest Signature in HTML source
Posted by "Scherler, Thorsten" <th...@apache.org>.
Dave Brondsema wrote:
> Quoting "Scherler, Thorsten" <th...@apache.org>:
>>Hello Brian, hello devs,
>>
>>Brian S. Hayes wrote:
>>>Okay. I'm willing to take this on if that's okay. I'll research this a bit
>>>and experiment around with my local Forrest instance to see what I can come
>>>up with. Naturally, I'll get a discussion going on the list.
>>I just updated the lenya-site. Have a look at the source code of the
>>page http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/. You will find in the head:
>><meta content="Apache Forrest" name="Generator">
>
> We should put the version in there too.
[...]
> I think it's a good idea to put it at the skin level. We can have a <meta tag
> that has the skin name. And more importantly some skins might not want to have
> any <meta tags, and we shouldn't try to force them to.
>
I added the following tags:
<meta name="Forrest-version" content="SVN-Head (revision 20645)"/>
<meta name="Forrest-skin-name" content="Krysalis-site"/>
IMO the version-tag of Forrest is a story for its own. That should be
automatic where else the other tag do not have to be. I thing something
like <meta name="Forrest-version" content="{version}"/> would be great.
The {version}-parameter should be resolved by forrest so you won't have
to touch it if you use e.g. the SVN-Head. Dunno right now how to do it
but WDYT? Brian do you have any ideas on that?
King regards
thorsten
> Dave Brondsema
>
>
>>>Brian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: David Crossley [mailto:crossley@apache.org]
>>>>Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:36 PM
>>>>To: forrest-dev@xml.apache.org
>>>>Subject: Re: [Proposal] Forrest Signature in HTML source
>>>>
>>>>Brian S. Hayes wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I apologize if this has been discussed before...
>>>>
>>>>It has. We decided that it was a good idea.
>>>>However no-one got around to implementing it.
>>>>... come on down!
>>>>
>>>>There was various discussion on this topic and on
>>>>the topic of META tags in general. Here is one thread:
>>>>
>>>>[RT] - HTML META tag to indicate build by forrest.
>>>>http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=106507937000004
>>>>
>>>>The conclusions were that we should have some mechanism
>>>>for adding various meta tags and specifically we should
>>>>add a "generated by Forrest version ###".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'm sure follow-on discussion will determine exactly what is
>>>>
>>>>appropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>However, is the idea a good one?
>>>>
>>>>Yes.
>>>>
>>>>--David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>--
>><thorsten>
>> <name>Thorsten Scherler</name>
>> <country>Spain</country>
>> <@mail> thorsten@apache.org</...@mail>
>> <@cocoon-WIKI>
>>http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=Scherler</...@cocoon-WIKI>
>> <http>http://www.target-x.de</http>
>></thorsten>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
<thorsten>
<name>Thorsten Scherler</name>
<country>Spain</country>
<@mail> thorsten@apache.org</...@mail>
<@cocoon-WIKI>
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=Scherler</...@cocoon-WIKI>
<http>http://www.target-x.de</http>
</thorsten>
RE: [Proposal] Forrest Signature in HTML source
Posted by "Brian S. Hayes" <br...@comcast.net>.
> >
> > I just updated the lenya-site. Have a look at the source code of the
> > page http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/. You will find in the head:
> > <meta content="Apache Forrest" name="Generator">
>
> We should put the version in there too.
>
> I think it's a good idea to put it at the skin level. We can have a <meta
> tag
> that has the skin name. And more importantly some skins might not want to
> have
> any <meta tags, and we shouldn't try to force them to.
I think we should try to set up this meta information so that it will always
appear unless it is overridden in the skin configuration or by a change in
the skin. Perhaps in the skinconf we could have elements like
disable-generator meta information (perhaps some information cannot be
disable this way, like the Forrest version number).
I think most people will not care that this meta-information is embedded in
the web pages. Thus, an alternative way to disable this information is to
have an insert-generator-meta-data xslt template that skin authors/hackers
could easily override (by defining their own) in their own site2html.xsl
skin.
Also, we/I should researching putting Forrest generation meta-data into the
PDF documents.
/Brian
Re: [Proposal] Forrest Signature in HTML source
Posted by Dave Brondsema <da...@brondsema.net>.
Quoting "Scherler, Thorsten" <th...@apache.org>:
> Hello Brian, hello devs,
>
> Brian S. Hayes wrote:
>
> > Okay. I'm willing to take this on if that's okay. I'll research this a
> bit
> > and experiment around with my local Forrest instance to see what I can
> come
> > up with. Naturally, I'll get a discussion going on the list.
> >
>
> I just updated the lenya-site. Have a look at the source code of the
> page http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/. You will find in the head:
> <meta content="Apache Forrest" name="Generator">
We should put the version in there too.
>
> I just added that to
> {forrest}/src/core/context/skins/krysalis-site/xslt/html/site2xhtml.xsl.
> Trying to say that an easy way to implemend it, is to add it to existing
> skin.
>
> If you all agree I add it to every exiting skin and commit that.
>
> King regards
> thorsten
>
I think it's a good idea to put it at the skin level. We can have a <meta tag
that has the skin name. And more importantly some skins might not want to have
any <meta tags, and we shouldn't try to force them to.
Dave Brondsema
> > Brian
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: David Crossley [mailto:crossley@apache.org]
> >>Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:36 PM
> >>To: forrest-dev@xml.apache.org
> >>Subject: Re: [Proposal] Forrest Signature in HTML source
> >>
> >>Brian S. Hayes wrote:
> >>
> >>>I apologize if this has been discussed before...
> >>
> >>It has. We decided that it was a good idea.
> >>However no-one got around to implementing it.
> >>... come on down!
> >>
> >>There was various discussion on this topic and on
> >>the topic of META tags in general. Here is one thread:
> >>
> >>[RT] - HTML META tag to indicate build by forrest.
> >>http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=106507937000004
> >>
> >>The conclusions were that we should have some mechanism
> >>for adding various meta tags and specifically we should
> >>add a "generated by Forrest version ###".
> >>
> >>
> >>>I'm sure follow-on discussion will determine exactly what is
> >>
> >>appropriate.
> >>
> >>>However, is the idea a good one?
> >>
> >>Yes.
> >>
> >>--David
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> <thorsten>
> <name>Thorsten Scherler</name>
> <country>Spain</country>
> <@mail> thorsten@apache.org</...@mail>
> <@cocoon-WIKI>
> http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=Scherler</...@cocoon-WIKI>
> <http>http://www.target-x.de</http>
> </thorsten>
>
>
>
--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
http://csx.calvin.edu : student org
Re: [Proposal] Forrest Signature in HTML source
Posted by "Scherler, Thorsten" <th...@apache.org>.
Hello Brian, hello devs,
Brian S. Hayes wrote:
> Okay. I'm willing to take this on if that's okay. I'll research this a bit
> and experiment around with my local Forrest instance to see what I can come
> up with. Naturally, I'll get a discussion going on the list.
>
I just updated the lenya-site. Have a look at the source code of the
page http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/. You will find in the head:
<meta content="Apache Forrest" name="Generator">
I just added that to
{forrest}/src/core/context/skins/krysalis-site/xslt/html/site2xhtml.xsl.
Trying to say that an easy way to implemend it, is to add it to existing
skin.
If you all agree I add it to every exiting skin and commit that.
King regards
thorsten
> Brian
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: David Crossley [mailto:crossley@apache.org]
>>Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:36 PM
>>To: forrest-dev@xml.apache.org
>>Subject: Re: [Proposal] Forrest Signature in HTML source
>>
>>Brian S. Hayes wrote:
>>
>>>I apologize if this has been discussed before...
>>
>>It has. We decided that it was a good idea.
>>However no-one got around to implementing it.
>>... come on down!
>>
>>There was various discussion on this topic and on
>>the topic of META tags in general. Here is one thread:
>>
>>[RT] - HTML META tag to indicate build by forrest.
>>http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=106507937000004
>>
>>The conclusions were that we should have some mechanism
>>for adding various meta tags and specifically we should
>>add a "generated by Forrest version ###".
>>
>>
>>>I'm sure follow-on discussion will determine exactly what is
>>
>>appropriate.
>>
>>>However, is the idea a good one?
>>
>>Yes.
>>
>>--David
>
>
>
--
<thorsten>
<name>Thorsten Scherler</name>
<country>Spain</country>
<@mail> thorsten@apache.org</...@mail>
<@cocoon-WIKI>
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=Scherler</...@cocoon-WIKI>
<http>http://www.target-x.de</http>
</thorsten>
Re: [Proposal] Forrest Signature in HTML source
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Brian S. Hayes wrote:
> Okay. I'm willing to take this on if that's okay.
Cool.
> I'll research this a bit
> and experiment around with my local Forrest instance to see what I can come
> up with. Naturally, I'll get a discussion going on the list.
Suggestion: include an xslt at the end of the html pipeline, so that
whatever skin is used we have this included in the final output.
When you have something working, just put a patch up on the bug tracker,
and it will be committed as-is or discussed. TIA
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
RE: [Proposal] Forrest Signature in HTML source
Posted by "Brian S. Hayes" <br...@comcast.net>.
Okay. I'm willing to take this on if that's okay. I'll research this a bit
and experiment around with my local Forrest instance to see what I can come
up with. Naturally, I'll get a discussion going on the list.
Brian
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Crossley [mailto:crossley@apache.org]
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:36 PM
> To: forrest-dev@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [Proposal] Forrest Signature in HTML source
>
> Brian S. Hayes wrote:
> > I apologize if this has been discussed before...
>
> It has. We decided that it was a good idea.
> However no-one got around to implementing it.
> ... come on down!
>
> There was various discussion on this topic and on
> the topic of META tags in general. Here is one thread:
>
> [RT] - HTML META tag to indicate build by forrest.
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=106507937000004
>
> The conclusions were that we should have some mechanism
> for adding various meta tags and specifically we should
> add a "generated by Forrest version ###".
>
> > I'm sure follow-on discussion will determine exactly what is
> appropriate.
> > However, is the idea a good one?
>
> Yes.
>
> --David
Re: [Proposal] Forrest Signature in HTML source
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Brian S. Hayes wrote:
> I apologize if this has been discussed before...
It has. We decided that it was a good idea.
However no-one got around to implementing it.
... come on down!
There was various discussion on this topic and on
the topic of META tags in general. Here is one thread:
[RT] - HTML META tag to indicate build by forrest.
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=106507937000004
The conclusions were that we should have some mechanism
for adding various meta tags and specifically we should
add a "generated by Forrest version ###".
> I'm sure follow-on discussion will determine exactly what is appropriate.
> However, is the idea a good one?
Yes.
--David
[Proposal] Forrest Signature in HTML source WAS: Possible Live site??
Posted by "Brian S. Hayes" <br...@comcast.net>.
I apologize if this has been discussed before...
After I saw the email below, I thought, "I should be able to view the HTML
source for a website to see if it was created using Forrest." Well, at the
site below, there was nothing to in the HTML source to indicate Forrest.
The same goes for the Forrest home page at
http://xml.apache.org/forrest/index.html.
My proposal is that we have some appropriate meta elements and comments
placed in the generated HTML files. For example, MS Word puts the following
in HTML files:
<head>
...
<meta name=ProgId content=Word.Document>
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 10">
<meta name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 10">
...
</head>
With Google and a mechanism such as this you can get a quick idea of how
many sites (or web pages) are generated using Forrest.
A Google search of "<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 10">" turns
up 6,000+ hits.
I'm sure follow-on discussion will determine exactly what is appropriate.
However, is the idea a good one?
/Brian
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason Lane [mailto:jason@root10.net]
> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 4:22 PM
> To: users@cocoon.apache.org
> Cc: forrest-dev@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Possible Live site??
>
> Hi there list[s],
>
> The other night I got a mail shot from formsPlayer, I must have handed
> over my details at some point ;) Anyway I went to their site:
>
> http://www.formsplayer.com/index.html
>
> It really looks like a Cocoon / Forrest site (actually I think it's
> Forrest, the html comments style and general design style gives it
> away?), anyway I looked on the apache site briefly, both on Cocoon &
> Forrest and couldn't see it listed. Is this a Cocoon / Forrest site?
>
> If it is it should be listed in either Cocoon or Forrest, it's a nice
> site.
>
> If you already know about this please ignore.
>
> Jason Lane
>
> Developer
> Root10 developments