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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by Guilhem BONNEFILLE <gu...@c-s.fr> on 2005/07/05 13:44:32 UTC
Multiple developers: listing editors
Hi,
I'm a subversion's newbie. I have a quite long experience with CVS.
In my office, main spirit is to avoid automatic merge as possible. So,
we use the 'cvs edit / cvs editors' functionnality to track who is
editing what.
As I planned to migrate to subversion, I looking for such a solution.
But I do not found anything similar to these commands.
What is the way to track who is editing what with SVN?
My goal is to be able to avoid, as soon as possible, the need of future
merge.
Best regards,
--
Guilhem BONNEFILLE -=*=- Ingenieur Etude et Developpement
-= Communications & Systems -=*=- Systemes d'Information =-
-= Mel : Guilhem.Bonnefille@c-s.fr -=*=- Cle OpenPGP : E12EA71D =-
-= Tel : 05-61-17-66-66 Fax : 05-61-17-64-89 =-
(Ce message est volontairement sans accent)
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Re: Multiple developers: listing editors
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
On Jul 6, 2005, at 8:44 AM, Scott Palmer wrote:
>
> On 6-Jul-05, at 9:14 AM, Ben Collins-Sussman wrote:
>
>
>>
>> On Jul 6, 2005, at 3:56 AM, Guilhem BONNEFILLE wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> In fact, I'm not really looking at a hard-locking system, but
>>> simply a
>>> way to track editors.
>>> What about an 'edit' sub-command? Is it already planned?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> We have no plans to add this feature.
>>
>
> What about the concept of "shared locks" ?
> I.e. locking wouldn't have to be exclusive. There could be a list
> of users that have a file locked instead of just one lock owner.
Sure, the DAV spec even allows for that. But we have no real plans
to add that.
The only reason we added exclusive locking was to allow people to
serialize access to unmergeable files. The 'concurrent' model
doesn't usually work for binary formats. But I don't think many svn
devs are persuaded that 'cvs edit/watch' is a useful feature to emulate.
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Re: Multiple developers: listing editors
Posted by Scott Palmer <sc...@2connected.org>.
On 6-Jul-05, at 9:14 AM, Ben Collins-Sussman wrote:
>
> On Jul 6, 2005, at 3:56 AM, Guilhem BONNEFILLE wrote:
>
>>
>> In fact, I'm not really looking at a hard-locking system, but
>> simply a
>> way to track editors.
>> What about an 'edit' sub-command? Is it already planned?
>>
>
> We have no plans to add this feature.
What about the concept of "shared locks" ?
I.e. locking wouldn't have to be exclusive. There could be a list of
users that have a file locked instead of just one lock owner.
Scott
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Re: Multiple developers: listing editors
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
On Jul 6, 2005, at 3:56 AM, Guilhem BONNEFILLE wrote:
>
> In fact, I'm not really looking at a hard-locking system, but simply a
> way to track editors.
> What about an 'edit' sub-command? Is it already planned?
We have no plans to add this feature.
Subversion 1.2 doesn't provide 'hard' locking, but rather 'soft'.
(You can make it 'hard' by using hook scripts). By 'soft', I mean
that anyone can break or steal a lock at any time. The locks are
purely communicative.
You can emulate the cvs 'edit' feature by setting the 'svn:needs-
lock' property on every single file. This will cause all files to be
read-only, and users will have to 'svn lock' to make them read-
write. Then you can examine the repository to see who is editing
which files, by examining lock-owners.
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Re: Multiple developers: listing editors
Posted by Guilhem BONNEFILLE <gu...@c-s.fr>.
kfogel@collab.net wrote:
> Guilhem BONNEFILLE <gu...@c-s.fr> writes:
>
>>I'm a subversion's newbie. I have a quite long experience with CVS.
>>
>>In my office, main spirit is to avoid automatic merge as possible. So,
>>we use the 'cvs edit / cvs editors' functionnality to track who is
>>editing what.
>>
>>As I planned to migrate to subversion, I looking for such a solution.
>>But I do not found anything similar to these commands.
>>What is the way to track who is editing what with SVN?
>>My goal is to be able to avoid, as soon as possible, the need of future
>>merge.
>
>
> See
>
> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/svn-book.html#svn.advanced.locking
Thanks for the link.
I did not known that a 'lock' sub-command is available. My svn client
(1.1.0) does not handle it.
In fact, I'm not really looking at a hard-locking system, but simply a
way to track editors.
What about an 'edit' sub-command? Is it already planned?
I think this option comes with the ability to deploy the working tree in
read-only, to enforce users to use the 'edit' command.
If it is not already planned, do you think this feature is hard to
develop? What should be the key concept to use?
Or perhaps, do you know a front-end to svn that add this feature?
--
Guilhem BONNEFILLE -=*=- Ingenieur Etude et Developpement
-= Communications & Systems -=*=- Systemes d'Information =-
-= Mel : Guilhem.Bonnefille@c-s.fr -=*=- Cle OpenPGP : E12EA71D =-
-= Tel : 05-61-17-66-66 Fax : 05-61-17-64-89 =-
(Ce message est volontairement sans accent)
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Re: Multiple developers: listing editors
Posted by kf...@collab.net.
Norbert Unterberg <nu...@gmail.com> writes:
> * The manual states that locks are released on files during a commit,
> even if the files are unchanged. But this failes if no file has been
> changed at all. So if I commit my working folder with file1.txt
> changed, the lock on file2.txt is released. If I commit with no file
> changed, file2.txt remains locked. I am not sure if this is intuitive.
It is intuitive in some circumstances, and not in others. The rule
is, if a commit actually happens, the locks are released. Since no
commit happens when no files are modified, no locks are released.
> * It is quite difficult to detect what files are locked by whom. There
> is no direct counterpart to "cvs editors". You need to provide the
> complete URL of each single file to get the lock owner. No way to
> specify wild cards. No way to just use the local filename. How about
> something like svn info file2.txt --remote to save the user from
> typing the long url? Or how about a svn status --show-lock-owners?
> Even svn status -u does not show the lock owners.
You're right. But, it's a very complex UI issue. What exactly do we
want to show? Say we make 'svn info -v' show the union of local and
remote information -- then how would it represent a file that is
locked remotely, but not locked locally (because out of date), or for
which for some other reason you don't locally have the lock token?
Maybe the right course is to not overload 'svn info', but instead have
a dedicated command just for showing locks. But then should it be a
port of 'svnadmin lslocks' to the command-line client, or should it be
a new flag, like 'svn lock --show', or something else?
None of these are insurmountable difficulties. What is required is
someone willing to spend some serious time & concentration on the
problem -- someone who will initiate a design discussion, play "honest
broker" during it, narrow things down to a few viable proposals, etc,
etc. So far, no one has had time to do this. If you do, though, that
would be great! Just post to dev@ and start it off. Or if not,
eventually someone else will get around to it, but I can't say when.
Implementation is not going to be difficult here. Choosing the right
UI is what's going to be hard.
-Karl
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Re: Multiple developers: listing editors
Posted by Norbert Unterberg <nu...@gmail.com>.
05 Jul 2005 13:11:16 -0500, kfogel@collab.net <kf...@collab.net>:
> > What is the way to track who is editing what with SVN?
> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/svn-book.html#svn.advanced.locking
Hmm, I have just played around with that, and I found some things that
might be improved:
* The manual states that locks are released on files during a commit,
even if the files are unchanged. But this failes if no file has been
changed at all. So if I commit my working folder with file1.txt
changed, the lock on file2.txt is released. If I commit with no file
changed, file2.txt remains locked. I am not sure if this is intuitive.
* It is quite difficult to detect what files are locked by whom. There
is no direct counterpart to "cvs editors". You need to provide the
complete URL of each single file to get the lock owner. No way to
specify wild cards. No way to just use the local filename. How about
something like svn info file2.txt --remote to save the user from
typing the long url? Or how about a svn status --show-lock-owners?
Even svn status -u does not show the lock owners.
Norbert
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Re: Multiple developers: listing editors
Posted by kf...@collab.net.
Guilhem BONNEFILLE <gu...@c-s.fr> writes:
> I'm a subversion's newbie. I have a quite long experience with CVS.
>
> In my office, main spirit is to avoid automatic merge as possible. So,
> we use the 'cvs edit / cvs editors' functionnality to track who is
> editing what.
>
> As I planned to migrate to subversion, I looking for such a solution.
> But I do not found anything similar to these commands.
> What is the way to track who is editing what with SVN?
> My goal is to be able to avoid, as soon as possible, the need of future
> merge.
See
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/svn-book.html#svn.advanced.locking
(This is from the nightly builds of the book, so don't bookmark it,
instead wait for the 1.2 book to be finalized and use that.)
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