folding Redback into Archiva or Continuum?

[Brett Porter <br...@apache.org>]

(Apologies for cross-posting - replies are best sent back to dev@redback, unless it's specific to one of the other projects).

After initial attempts to gain external interest, some time has elapsed and it seems obvious that Redback hasn't been used outside of Continuum and Archiva. Further, it is unlikely to grow in the way they use it. I'm not sure it makes sense to remain as a standalone project, and it appeals to me to have all of the code under Apache. Less lists to subscribe to and more consolidated activity makes sense to me too.

It's also true that moving doesn't buy much immediate benefit other than consolidation, so maybe it is fine where it is :)

If it were to move, as it's unlikely to establish it's own community, I don't think incubation would make sense. Instead, after clearing the IP, I would suggest a subproject of either Continuum or Archiva. In terms of committer overlap, the larger overlap of distinct committers is with Continuum (Marica and Olivier) vs Archiva (James), with Marica being the most recently active.

Given that, I would think a subproject of Continuum makes sense - but that we should agree that all Archiva committers should have commit access to it and a binding vote on any releases. Does anyone feel strongly it should be the other way around?

What do others think? If it's worth doing I will call a formal vote.

Cheers,
Brett

--
Brett Porter
brett@apache.org
http://brettporter.wordpress.com/

Re: [redback-dev] folding Redback into Archiva or Continuum?

[Emmanuel Venisse <em...@gmail.com>]

Yes, it makes sense to host it under Archiva or Continuum but we need to
keep attention on circular dependencies.

Actually, Continuum uses some Archiva artifacts so if Redback is hosted by
Continuum and used by Archiva, we'll have this graph:

Archiva --> Continuum (Redback) --> Archiva

So, I think it must be an independant project (even under Archiva or
Continuum) with its own release process.

My 2 cents,
Emmanuel

On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:

> (Apologies for cross-posting - replies are best sent back to dev@redback,
> unless it's specific to one of the other projects).
>
> After initial attempts to gain external interest, some time has elapsed and
> it seems obvious that Redback hasn't been used outside of Continuum and
> Archiva. Further, it is unlikely to grow in the way they use it. I'm not
> sure it makes sense to remain as a standalone project, and it appeals to me
> to have all of the code under Apache. Less lists to subscribe to and more
> consolidated activity makes sense to me too.
>
> It's also true that moving doesn't buy much immediate benefit other than
> consolidation, so maybe it is fine where it is :)
>
> If it were to move, as it's unlikely to establish it's own community, I
> don't think incubation would make sense. Instead, after clearing the IP, I
> would suggest a subproject of either Continuum or Archiva. In terms of
> committer overlap, the larger overlap of distinct committers is with
> Continuum (Marica and Olivier) vs Archiva (James), with Marica being the
> most recently active.
>
> Given that, I would think a subproject of Continuum makes sense - but that
> we should agree that all Archiva committers should have commit access to it
> and a binding vote on any releases. Does anyone feel strongly it should be
> the other way around?
>
> What do others think? If it's worth doing I will call a formal vote.
>
> Cheers,
> Brett
>
> --
> Brett Porter
> brett@apache.org
> http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
>    http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>

Re: [redback-dev] folding Redback into Archiva or Continuum?

[Emmanuel Venisse <em...@gmail.com>]

Yes, it makes sense to host it under Archiva or Continuum but we need to
keep attention on circular dependencies.

Actually, Continuum uses some Archiva artifacts so if Redback is hosted by
Continuum and used by Archiva, we'll have this graph:

Archiva --> Continuum (Redback) --> Archiva

So, I think it must be an independant project (even under Archiva or
Continuum) with its own release process.

My 2 cents,
Emmanuel

On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:

> (Apologies for cross-posting - replies are best sent back to dev@redback,
> unless it's specific to one of the other projects).
>
> After initial attempts to gain external interest, some time has elapsed and
> it seems obvious that Redback hasn't been used outside of Continuum and
> Archiva. Further, it is unlikely to grow in the way they use it. I'm not
> sure it makes sense to remain as a standalone project, and it appeals to me
> to have all of the code under Apache. Less lists to subscribe to and more
> consolidated activity makes sense to me too.
>
> It's also true that moving doesn't buy much immediate benefit other than
> consolidation, so maybe it is fine where it is :)
>
> If it were to move, as it's unlikely to establish it's own community, I
> don't think incubation would make sense. Instead, after clearing the IP, I
> would suggest a subproject of either Continuum or Archiva. In terms of
> committer overlap, the larger overlap of distinct committers is with
> Continuum (Marica and Olivier) vs Archiva (James), with Marica being the
> most recently active.
>
> Given that, I would think a subproject of Continuum makes sense - but that
> we should agree that all Archiva committers should have commit access to it
> and a binding vote on any releases. Does anyone feel strongly it should be
> the other way around?
>
> What do others think? If it's worth doing I will call a formal vote.
>
> Cheers,
> Brett
>
> --
> Brett Porter
> brett@apache.org
> http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this list, please visit:
>
>    http://xircles.codehaus.org/manage_email
>
>
>

Re: folding Redback into Archiva or Continuum?

[Louis Smith <dr...@gmail.com>]

Not sure if any of my folks have time to contribute to Redback.  Right now,
I have them working on an extension to Continuum that we need for our
project status monitoring/reporting dashboard, so they are busy learning the
full continuum suite to figure that all out.  If we can get the Continuum
changes done, we might be able to contribute to redback.  I'll ping the
staff to see what interest there might be.

In order to use Redback on other projects, it would be easier if it were
stand-alone, of course.

I'd be happy to contribute suggestions and join in the discussions - but I
honestly don't have time to work on any fun code... I have to re-build *my*
environment with all the new toys as well...

Louis

On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:

>
> On 03/12/2010, at 12:19 AM, Louis Smith wrote:
>
> > Interesting timing on this.
>
> I'm glad to hear about it - I hoped that the topic would make any direct
> users come out of the woodwork!
>
> > We are in the process of rolling out the latest
> > releases of Archiva and Continuum as part of the Software Development
> > Infrastructure used at a government agency that is one of my key clients.
> > We use the redback security so the developers can log in with their
> normal
> > AD based credentials.
> >
> > I also tasked 2 of my developers with looking at using Redback to use as
> the
> > core of security for their Java apps that run the agency.  Both felt that
> it
> > wasn't "ready for prime time" for other usage - but Archiva and Continuum
> > were ok as the SDI roles are managed within continuum at the project
> level
> > anyway.
> >
> > If Redback were to "flesh out" the full RBAC robustly, then they would
> have
> > been interested.
>
> Right - that's what the other initial interest was in relation to as well,
> but nothing has happened in the last 2 years. It's a bit of a "chicken and
> egg" situation I guess. For the existing functionality, it's been relatively
> stable for some time too.
>
> There's a couple of questions worth asking you here:
> - is there anything we can do to help you contribute?
> - would that be helped or hindered by the project changing location?
>
> >
> > We did have to apply the case sensitivity patch to Redback and rebuild
> > everything - but other than that, we love the suite.
> > (svn/maven/archiva/continuum/forrest).  Please make sure that makes it
> into
> > the next releases!
>
> Thanks, I'll keep an eye on it.
>
> - Brett
>
> >
> > Thanks - have a great holiday season everyone!!
> >
> > Louis
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> (Apologies for cross-posting - replies are best sent back to dev@redback
> ,
> >> unless it's specific to one of the other projects).
> >>
> >> After initial attempts to gain external interest, some time has elapsed
> and
> >> it seems obvious that Redback hasn't been used outside of Continuum and
> >> Archiva. Further, it is unlikely to grow in the way they use it. I'm not
> >> sure it makes sense to remain as a standalone project, and it appeals to
> me
> >> to have all of the code under Apache. Less lists to subscribe to and
> more
> >> consolidated activity makes sense to me too.
> >>
> >> It's also true that moving doesn't buy much immediate benefit other than
> >> consolidation, so maybe it is fine where it is :)
> >>
> >> If it were to move, as it's unlikely to establish it's own community, I
> >> don't think incubation would make sense. Instead, after clearing the IP,
> I
> >> would suggest a subproject of either Continuum or Archiva. In terms of
> >> committer overlap, the larger overlap of distinct committers is with
> >> Continuum (Marica and Olivier) vs Archiva (James), with Marica being the
> >> most recently active.
> >>
> >> Given that, I would think a subproject of Continuum makes sense - but
> that
> >> we should agree that all Archiva committers should have commit access to
> it
> >> and a binding vote on any releases. Does anyone feel strongly it should
> be
> >> the other way around?
> >>
> >> What do others think? If it's worth doing I will call a formal vote.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Brett
> >>
> >> --
> >> Brett Porter
> >> brett@apache.org
> >> http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Louis Smith, ThD
> > Chief Technology Officer, Kyra InfoTech
> > Colonel, Commemorative Air Force
>
> --
> Brett Porter
> brett@apache.org
> http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Dr. Louis Smith, ThD
Chief Technology Officer, Kyra InfoTech
Colonel, Commemorative Air Force

Re: folding Redback into Archiva or Continuum?

[Brett Porter <br...@apache.org>]

On 03/12/2010, at 12:19 AM, Louis Smith wrote:

> Interesting timing on this.  

I'm glad to hear about it - I hoped that the topic would make any direct users come out of the woodwork!

> We are in the process of rolling out the latest
> releases of Archiva and Continuum as part of the Software Development
> Infrastructure used at a government agency that is one of my key clients.
> We use the redback security so the developers can log in with their normal
> AD based credentials.
> 
> I also tasked 2 of my developers with looking at using Redback to use as the
> core of security for their Java apps that run the agency.  Both felt that it
> wasn't "ready for prime time" for other usage - but Archiva and Continuum
> were ok as the SDI roles are managed within continuum at the project level
> anyway.
> 
> If Redback were to "flesh out" the full RBAC robustly, then they would have
> been interested.

Right - that's what the other initial interest was in relation to as well, but nothing has happened in the last 2 years. It's a bit of a "chicken and egg" situation I guess. For the existing functionality, it's been relatively stable for some time too.

There's a couple of questions worth asking you here:
- is there anything we can do to help you contribute?
- would that be helped or hindered by the project changing location?

> 
> We did have to apply the case sensitivity patch to Redback and rebuild
> everything - but other than that, we love the suite.
> (svn/maven/archiva/continuum/forrest).  Please make sure that makes it into
> the next releases!

Thanks, I'll keep an eye on it.

- Brett

> 
> Thanks - have a great holiday season everyone!!
> 
> Louis
> 
> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> (Apologies for cross-posting - replies are best sent back to dev@redback,
>> unless it's specific to one of the other projects).
>> 
>> After initial attempts to gain external interest, some time has elapsed and
>> it seems obvious that Redback hasn't been used outside of Continuum and
>> Archiva. Further, it is unlikely to grow in the way they use it. I'm not
>> sure it makes sense to remain as a standalone project, and it appeals to me
>> to have all of the code under Apache. Less lists to subscribe to and more
>> consolidated activity makes sense to me too.
>> 
>> It's also true that moving doesn't buy much immediate benefit other than
>> consolidation, so maybe it is fine where it is :)
>> 
>> If it were to move, as it's unlikely to establish it's own community, I
>> don't think incubation would make sense. Instead, after clearing the IP, I
>> would suggest a subproject of either Continuum or Archiva. In terms of
>> committer overlap, the larger overlap of distinct committers is with
>> Continuum (Marica and Olivier) vs Archiva (James), with Marica being the
>> most recently active.
>> 
>> Given that, I would think a subproject of Continuum makes sense - but that
>> we should agree that all Archiva committers should have commit access to it
>> and a binding vote on any releases. Does anyone feel strongly it should be
>> the other way around?
>> 
>> What do others think? If it's worth doing I will call a formal vote.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Brett
>> 
>> --
>> Brett Porter
>> brett@apache.org
>> http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr. Louis Smith, ThD
> Chief Technology Officer, Kyra InfoTech
> Colonel, Commemorative Air Force

--
Brett Porter
brett@apache.org
http://brettporter.wordpress.com/

Re: folding Redback into Archiva or Continuum?

[Brett Porter <br...@apache.org>]

On 03/12/2010, at 12:19 AM, Louis Smith wrote:

> Interesting timing on this.  

I'm glad to hear about it - I hoped that the topic would make any direct users come out of the woodwork!

> We are in the process of rolling out the latest
> releases of Archiva and Continuum as part of the Software Development
> Infrastructure used at a government agency that is one of my key clients.
> We use the redback security so the developers can log in with their normal
> AD based credentials.
> 
> I also tasked 2 of my developers with looking at using Redback to use as the
> core of security for their Java apps that run the agency.  Both felt that it
> wasn't "ready for prime time" for other usage - but Archiva and Continuum
> were ok as the SDI roles are managed within continuum at the project level
> anyway.
> 
> If Redback were to "flesh out" the full RBAC robustly, then they would have
> been interested.

Right - that's what the other initial interest was in relation to as well, but nothing has happened in the last 2 years. It's a bit of a "chicken and egg" situation I guess. For the existing functionality, it's been relatively stable for some time too.

There's a couple of questions worth asking you here:
- is there anything we can do to help you contribute?
- would that be helped or hindered by the project changing location?

> 
> We did have to apply the case sensitivity patch to Redback and rebuild
> everything - but other than that, we love the suite.
> (svn/maven/archiva/continuum/forrest).  Please make sure that makes it into
> the next releases!

Thanks, I'll keep an eye on it.

- Brett

> 
> Thanks - have a great holiday season everyone!!
> 
> Louis
> 
> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> (Apologies for cross-posting - replies are best sent back to dev@redback,
>> unless it's specific to one of the other projects).
>> 
>> After initial attempts to gain external interest, some time has elapsed and
>> it seems obvious that Redback hasn't been used outside of Continuum and
>> Archiva. Further, it is unlikely to grow in the way they use it. I'm not
>> sure it makes sense to remain as a standalone project, and it appeals to me
>> to have all of the code under Apache. Less lists to subscribe to and more
>> consolidated activity makes sense to me too.
>> 
>> It's also true that moving doesn't buy much immediate benefit other than
>> consolidation, so maybe it is fine where it is :)
>> 
>> If it were to move, as it's unlikely to establish it's own community, I
>> don't think incubation would make sense. Instead, after clearing the IP, I
>> would suggest a subproject of either Continuum or Archiva. In terms of
>> committer overlap, the larger overlap of distinct committers is with
>> Continuum (Marica and Olivier) vs Archiva (James), with Marica being the
>> most recently active.
>> 
>> Given that, I would think a subproject of Continuum makes sense - but that
>> we should agree that all Archiva committers should have commit access to it
>> and a binding vote on any releases. Does anyone feel strongly it should be
>> the other way around?
>> 
>> What do others think? If it's worth doing I will call a formal vote.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Brett
>> 
>> --
>> Brett Porter
>> brett@apache.org
>> http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr. Louis Smith, ThD
> Chief Technology Officer, Kyra InfoTech
> Colonel, Commemorative Air Force

--
Brett Porter
brett@apache.org
http://brettporter.wordpress.com/

Re: folding Redback into Archiva or Continuum?

[Louis Smith <dr...@gmail.com>]

Interesting timing on this.  We are in the process of rolling out the latest
releases of Archiva and Continuum as part of the Software Development
Infrastructure used at a government agency that is one of my key clients.
We use the redback security so the developers can log in with their normal
AD based credentials.

I also tasked 2 of my developers with looking at using Redback to use as the
core of security for their Java apps that run the agency.  Both felt that it
wasn't "ready for prime time" for other usage - but Archiva and Continuum
were ok as the SDI roles are managed within continuum at the project level
anyway.

If Redback were to "flesh out" the full RBAC robustly, then they would have
been interested.

We did have to apply the case sensitivity patch to Redback and rebuild
everything - but other than that, we love the suite.
(svn/maven/archiva/continuum/forrest).  Please make sure that makes it into
the next releases!

Thanks - have a great holiday season everyone!!

Louis

On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:

> (Apologies for cross-posting - replies are best sent back to dev@redback,
> unless it's specific to one of the other projects).
>
> After initial attempts to gain external interest, some time has elapsed and
> it seems obvious that Redback hasn't been used outside of Continuum and
> Archiva. Further, it is unlikely to grow in the way they use it. I'm not
> sure it makes sense to remain as a standalone project, and it appeals to me
> to have all of the code under Apache. Less lists to subscribe to and more
> consolidated activity makes sense to me too.
>
> It's also true that moving doesn't buy much immediate benefit other than
> consolidation, so maybe it is fine where it is :)
>
> If it were to move, as it's unlikely to establish it's own community, I
> don't think incubation would make sense. Instead, after clearing the IP, I
> would suggest a subproject of either Continuum or Archiva. In terms of
> committer overlap, the larger overlap of distinct committers is with
> Continuum (Marica and Olivier) vs Archiva (James), with Marica being the
> most recently active.
>
> Given that, I would think a subproject of Continuum makes sense - but that
> we should agree that all Archiva committers should have commit access to it
> and a binding vote on any releases. Does anyone feel strongly it should be
> the other way around?
>
> What do others think? If it's worth doing I will call a formal vote.
>
> Cheers,
> Brett
>
> --
> Brett Porter
> brett@apache.org
> http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Dr. Louis Smith, ThD
Chief Technology Officer, Kyra InfoTech
Colonel, Commemorative Air Force

Re: folding Redback into Archiva or Continuum?

[Louis Smith <dr...@gmail.com>]

Interesting timing on this.  We are in the process of rolling out the latest
releases of Archiva and Continuum as part of the Software Development
Infrastructure used at a government agency that is one of my key clients.
We use the redback security so the developers can log in with their normal
AD based credentials.

I also tasked 2 of my developers with looking at using Redback to use as the
core of security for their Java apps that run the agency.  Both felt that it
wasn't "ready for prime time" for other usage - but Archiva and Continuum
were ok as the SDI roles are managed within continuum at the project level
anyway.

If Redback were to "flesh out" the full RBAC robustly, then they would have
been interested.

We did have to apply the case sensitivity patch to Redback and rebuild
everything - but other than that, we love the suite.
(svn/maven/archiva/continuum/forrest).  Please make sure that makes it into
the next releases!

Thanks - have a great holiday season everyone!!

Louis

On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:

> (Apologies for cross-posting - replies are best sent back to dev@redback,
> unless it's specific to one of the other projects).
>
> After initial attempts to gain external interest, some time has elapsed and
> it seems obvious that Redback hasn't been used outside of Continuum and
> Archiva. Further, it is unlikely to grow in the way they use it. I'm not
> sure it makes sense to remain as a standalone project, and it appeals to me
> to have all of the code under Apache. Less lists to subscribe to and more
> consolidated activity makes sense to me too.
>
> It's also true that moving doesn't buy much immediate benefit other than
> consolidation, so maybe it is fine where it is :)
>
> If it were to move, as it's unlikely to establish it's own community, I
> don't think incubation would make sense. Instead, after clearing the IP, I
> would suggest a subproject of either Continuum or Archiva. In terms of
> committer overlap, the larger overlap of distinct committers is with
> Continuum (Marica and Olivier) vs Archiva (James), with Marica being the
> most recently active.
>
> Given that, I would think a subproject of Continuum makes sense - but that
> we should agree that all Archiva committers should have commit access to it
> and a binding vote on any releases. Does anyone feel strongly it should be
> the other way around?
>
> What do others think? If it's worth doing I will call a formal vote.
>
> Cheers,
> Brett
>
> --
> Brett Porter
> brett@apache.org
> http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Dr. Louis Smith, ThD
Chief Technology Officer, Kyra InfoTech
Colonel, Commemorative Air Force