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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org> on 2003/07/17 11:32:14 UTC
Re: Apache != HTTPD
Privet!
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:01:57 -0400
(Subject: RE: Apache != HTTPD (was Issues with XMLBeans proposal))
"Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> > > What if some one/a group of people were to form a watchdog group
> > > that would bring to the attention of [that] they should infact
> > > use 'Apache HTTPD' instead of just 'Apache'.
>
> > If you want to raise awareness of such an "Apache wide" fact, don't
> > do it in a "java only" place like Jakarta.
>
> An Apache Software Foundation newsletter, as an outgrowth from the great
> work on the Jakarta newsletter, would provide an overall picture of the
> scope of the ASF's projects, and should help to naturally dispel the Apache
> == Apache HTTPD image.
"The Apache Newsletter" will be published from next month, and sure
the image * Apache == Apache HTTPD * will gradually diminish.
At the same time, IMHO, HTTPD members are better to take it into
consideration when they publish the [announcement] to announce@apache.
I saw "[ANNOUNCE][SECURITY] Apache 2.0.47 released" titled mail from
<an...@apache.org>... this is not good, because I had to edit the
article to make a change at site/elsewhere.html :D
Da Svidanya.
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:41:59 +0200
(Subject: RE: Apache != HTTPD)
"Sander Striker" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> > I saw "[ANNOUNCE][SECURITY] Apache 2.0.47 released" titled mail from
> > <an...@apache.org>... this is not good, because I had to edit the
> > article to make a change at site/elsewhere.html :D
> That goes with editing a newsletter IMHO.
Ahhh.. Very sorry... I meant "jakarta-site2/xdocs/site/elsewhere.xml".
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/elsewhere.html#20030709.1
This is not directly related to the apache newsletter. Rather,
"Jakarta Headline News" seen at the top page of Jakarta website.
http://jakarta.apache.org/
When I made a change on this "Headline News", I had to append
<HTTPD Webserver> if the announce was <Apache 2.0.47 released>.
Make sense?
> Oh, and why was this CC'd to general@jakarta?
Previous mail had been cross-posted, so.
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
On 7/17/03 2:04 PM, "Alex McLintock" <al...@OWAL.co.uk> wrote:
>I have another related problem....
>
>Recruitment Agent: Have you done Struts?
>Me: Yes I have done some Struts. I can point you at websites I have built
>with Apache Struts.
>Agent: Is that the same as "Jakarta Struts"?
>Me: <explanation of the ASF and its projects>
ROTFL!
Gnu guy: "Linux is just a kernel, we should call the
OS Gnu/Linux...".
Apache guy: "Apache is not just a webserver, the server
should be called Apache HTTPD..."
;-P
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
On 7/17/03 2:04 PM, "Alex McLintock" <al...@OWAL.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I have another related problem....
>
> Recruitment Agent: Have you done Struts?
> Me: Yes I have done some Struts. I can point you at websites I have built
> with Apache Struts.
> Agent: Is that the same as "Jakarta Struts"?
> Me: <explanation of the ASF and its projects>
>
> I think this whole Jakarta brand has backfired and is diluting the Apache
> name.
>
> But few people seem to care about the ASF's professional image....
>
> Alex
>
On POI we've been discussing (on occasion) a new top level project called
"fileformats" (or something like that) and things like POI and other things
that will evolve around manipulating file formats could go there.
-Andy
>
>
> Available for java/perl/C++/web development in London, UK or nearby.
> Apache FOP, Cocoon, Turbine, Struts,XSL:FO, XML, Tomcat, JSP
> http://www.OWAL.co.uk/
>
>
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--
Andrew C. Oliver
http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp
Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Alex McLintock wrote:
>
> >Brian McCallister wrote:
> >
> At 16:28 17/07/03, Erik Price wrote:
> >Spoken out loud, I use "Apache Web Server" and in writing I use "Apache
> >HTTPD". Once the context is clear (that I am referring to the software
> >and not the organization), I typically shorten it to just "Apache" if I
> >have to refer to it again.
>
> Recruitment Agent: Have you done Struts?
> Me: Yes I have done some Struts. I can point you at websites I have built
> with Apache Struts.
> Agent: Is that the same as "Jakarta Struts"?
> Me: <explanation of the ASF and its projects>
>
> I think this whole Jakarta brand has backfired and is diluting the Apache
> name.
>
> But few people seem to care about the ASF's professional image....
In actual fact it's the other way around I think. ASF care about the brand
image and are taking steps to remove the Jakarta brand. This is why you
see things like Ant/Maven being promoted.
A year ago, when asked what the lagest Java open-source project would be,
people would say 'Jakarta'. They are now slowly [it'll take years] moving
to saying 'Apache's Jakarta'.
Personally I think it would have been easier to just accept that Jakarta
was a stronger brand than Apache in the Java space and benefited from
that, but the logistics of setting Jakarta up at a higher level would have
been painful.
We could always pull a Mozilla and rename httpd to something else. At the
very least I shouldn't be dealing with apache with:
/etc/init.d/apache restart
or
apachectl restart
These just help to confirm the belief that Apache is a web server.
Hen
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Alex McLintock <al...@OWAL.co.uk>.
>Brian McCallister wrote:
>>So... "We are using Apache, that is really Apache Hutpud, but you cannot
>>write hutpud because it confuses people about the Apache Software
>>Foundation, which develops much more than hutpud." This is even worse =)
At 16:28 17/07/03, Erik Price wrote:
>Spoken out loud, I use "Apache Web Server" and in writing I use "Apache
>HTTPD". Once the context is clear (that I am referring to the software
>and not the organization), I typically shorten it to just "Apache" if I
>have to refer to it again.
I have another related problem....
Recruitment Agent: Have you done Struts?
Me: Yes I have done some Struts. I can point you at websites I have built
with Apache Struts.
Agent: Is that the same as "Jakarta Struts"?
Me: <explanation of the ASF and its projects>
I think this whole Jakarta brand has backfired and is diluting the Apache
name.
But few people seem to care about the ASF's professional image....
Alex
Available for java/perl/C++/web development in London, UK or nearby.
Apache FOP, Cocoon, Turbine, Struts,XSL:FO, XML, Tomcat, JSP
http://www.OWAL.co.uk/
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Erik Price <ep...@ptc.com>.
Brian McCallister wrote:
> So... "We are using Apache, that is really Apache Hutpud, but you cannot
> write hutpud because it confuses people about the Apache Software
> Foundation, which develops much more than hutpud." This is even worse =)
Spoken out loud, I use "Apache Web Server" and in writing I use "Apache
HTTPD". Once the context is clear (that I am referring to the software
and not the organization), I typically shorten it to just "Apache" if I
have to refer to it again.
Erik
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Brian McCallister <mc...@forthillcompany.com>.
> You can Say Apache, because you're right there in front of them to
> clear up
> any confusion.
>
> For the ASF to call HTTPD "Apache" perpetuates the myth that thats all
> there
> is to it.
So... "We are using Apache, that is really Apache Hutpud, but you
cannot write hutpud because it confuses people about the Apache
Software Foundation, which develops much more than hutpud." This is
even worse =)
You could do a Bill the Cat type pronunciation, maybe.
But seriously, I don't disagree, just point out a big reason why it
will be very difficult to ever relabel "Apache [HTTPD]" to "[Apache]
HTTPD". People do have to say it, and saying one thing but writing
another is too complicated for people without an emotional attachment
(or who are well skilled in double-think).
-Brian
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RE: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
> The biggest problem with Apache != httpd is saying the name when you
> are talking (out loud) to people about it. I mean "We use h-t-t-p-d"
> just takes too long to say. "Hutpud" sounds absurd.
You can Say Apache, because you're right there in front of them to clear up
any confusion.
For the ASF to call HTTPD "Apache" perpetuates the myth that thats all there
is to it.
d.
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Re: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Brian McCallister <mc...@forthillcompany.com>.
On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 05:32 AM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>
> the image * Apache == Apache HTTPD * will gradually diminish.
>
> At the same time, IMHO, HTTPD members are better to take it into
> consideration when they publish the [announcement] to announce@apache.
>
> I saw "[ANNOUNCE][SECURITY] Apache 2.0.47 released" titled mail from
> <an...@apache.org>... this is not good, because I had to edit the
> article to make a change at site/elsewhere.html :D
>
The biggest problem with Apache != httpd is saying the name when you
are talking (out loud) to people about it. I mean "We use h-t-t-p-d"
just takes too long to say. "Hutpud" sounds absurd.
-Brian
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RE: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Sander Striker <st...@apache.org>.
> From: Henning Schmiedehausen [mailto:hps@intermeta.de]
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 1:15 PM
> I think he meant, that the Announcement should have read
>
> "[ANNOUNCE][SECURITY] Apache HTTPD 2.0.47 released"
>
> because "Apache" != HTTPD (oh, look at the subject. ;-) )
Ah, explicitness is good. Now I understand the fuss.
The label should read:
"Apache HTTP Server"
Sander
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RE: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Henning Schmiedehausen <hp...@intermeta.de>.
I think he meant, that the Announcement should have read
"[ANNOUNCE][SECURITY] Apache HTTPD 2.0.47 released"
because "Apache" != HTTPD (oh, look at the subject. ;-) )
Regards
Henning
On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 12:41, Sander Striker wrote:
> > From: Tetsuya Kitahata [mailto:tetsuya@apache.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:32 AM
[...]
> > I saw "[ANNOUNCE][SECURITY] Apache 2.0.47 released" titled mail from
> > <an...@apache.org>... this is not good, because I had to edit the
> > article to make a change at site/elsewhere.html :D
>
> That goes with editing a newsletter IMHO.
>
> Oh, and why was this CC'd to general@jakarta?
>
>
> Sander
>
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Java, perl, Solaris, Linux, xSP Consulting, Web Services
freelance consultant -- Jakarta Turbine Development -- hero for hire
--- Quote of the week: "It is pointless to tell people anything when
you know that they won't process the message." --- Jonathan Revusky
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RE: Apache != HTTPD
Posted by Sander Striker <st...@apache.org>.
> From: Tetsuya Kitahata [mailto:tetsuya@apache.org]
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:32 AM
> "The Apache Newsletter" will be published from next month, and sure
> the image * Apache == Apache HTTPD * will gradually diminish.
>
> At the same time, IMHO, HTTPD members are better to take it into
> consideration when they publish the [announcement] to announce@apache.
You can't be serious. The RM has enough things to think about when
doing a release. Updating a newsletter is not on that list. Besides,
if the newsletter guys see the announcement on the ASF wide announcement
list, isn't that enough?
> I saw "[ANNOUNCE][SECURITY] Apache 2.0.47 released" titled mail from
> <an...@apache.org>... this is not good, because I had to edit the
> article to make a change at site/elsewhere.html :D
That goes with editing a newsletter IMHO.
Oh, and why was this CC'd to general@jakarta?
Sander
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