[VOTE][DISCUSS] Apache OpenOffice Community Graduation Vote

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

Please vote in the main [VOTE] thread, and have discussion in this thread.

Thanks!

-Rob

Re: [VOTE][DISCUSS] Apache OpenOffice Community Graduation Vote

[Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>]

Regarding finishing my duties as a mentor - yes I'll certainly help. I seem
to have hit an extremely busy period that doesn't seem to be ending, but I
intend to finish things off here. As I am sure other mentors are.

Ross
On Aug 19, 2012 10:08 PM, "Dave Fisher" <da...@comcast.net> wrote:

>
> On Aug 19, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:
>
> > I'm unable to vote either way until:
> >
> > A) a PMC chair has been identified by the community
> >
> > B) a resolution for the TLP is prepared which will define what we are
> > voting on
> >
> > Note, I'm generally in favour of the proposal but I do want to be sure
> that
> > the community has the resources it needs to continue to build and
> maintain
> > a healthy,vibrant and inclusive community. There are some candidates for
> > PMC chair that I can think of, but I don't know if they want the role.
> >
> > In a healthy community the PMC role is just taking responsibility for
> board
> > reports (not necessarily writing them, just making sure they get written)
> > and any community actions requested by the board. It shouldn't be a time
> > consuming role, but it can become so on occasion.
> >
> > This query should not prevent the community expressing their opinion in
> the
> > vote. I just wanted to let you know why I will be abstaining. You only
> need
> > my vote when it comes to the actual graduation vote.
>
> I understand.
>
> BTW - There are some Mentor related status items on [1] that need action.
> Would you be able to take care of those items?
>
> Thanks & Regards,
> Dave
>
> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/projects/openofficeorg.html
>
> >
> > Ross
> > On Aug 19, 2012 4:53 PM, "Rob Weir" <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Please vote in the main [VOTE] thread, and have discussion in this
> thread.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >>
>
>

Re: [VOTE][DISCUSS] Apache OpenOffice Community Graduation Vote

[Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>]

On Aug 19, 2012, at 4:09 PM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> On Aug 19, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm unable to vote either way until:
>>> 
>>> A) a PMC chair has been identified by the community
>>> 
>>> B) a resolution for the TLP is prepared which will define what we are
>>> voting on
>>> 
>>> Note, I'm generally in favour of the proposal but I do want to be sure that
>>> the community has the resources it needs to continue to build and maintain
>>> a healthy,vibrant and inclusive community. There are some candidates for
>>> PMC chair that I can think of, but I don't know if they want the role.
>>> 
>>> In a healthy community the PMC role is just taking responsibility for board
>>> reports (not necessarily writing them, just making sure they get written)
>>> and any community actions requested by the board. It shouldn't be a time
>>> consuming role, but it can become so on occasion.
>>> 
>>> This query should not prevent the community expressing their opinion in the
>>> vote. I just wanted to let you know why I will be abstaining. You only need
>>> my vote when it comes to the actual graduation vote.
>> 
>> I understand.
>> 
>> BTW - There are some Mentor related status items on [1] that need action. Would you be able to take care of those items?
>> 
> 
> So the items I see as not marked as done are:
> 
> 1. Make sure that the requested project name does not already exist
> and check www.nameprotect.com to be sure that the name is not already
> trademarked for an existing software product.
> 
> 2. Subscribe all Mentors on the pmc and general lists.
> 
> 3. Give all Mentors access to the incubator SVN repository. (to be
> done by the Incubator PMC chair or an Incubator PMC Member wih karma
> for the authorizations file)
> 
> 4. Tell Mentors to track progress in the file
> 'incubator/projects/{project.name}.html'
> 
> For 1, we came with a transferred trademark, from Oracle.  I think
> that can be considered an alternative way of demonstrating uniqueness,
> since that was required in the first instance to acquire the
> registered trademark,  So maybe we just put down the date of the
> transfer?
> 
> For 2, that is obviously done.  I assume it was done within hours of
> the podling being created.
> 
> Ditto for 3.
> 
> For 4, this sounds incorrect.  It has been podling members, not
> mentors, who have been maintaining the status file.  But for
> completeness can we assume that the mentors were implicitly told to do
> this when the IPMC approved the podling initially?

I agree with your interpretation on all points.

> 
> So is there anything on that list that you think needs Mentor
> attention?  Anything else in the status file?

Not that I know of.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> -Rob
> 
>> Thanks & Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/projects/openofficeorg.html
>> 
>>> 
>>> Ross
>>> On Aug 19, 2012 4:53 PM, "Rob Weir" <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Please vote in the main [VOTE] thread, and have discussion in this thread.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> -Rob
>>>> 
>> 

Re: [VOTE][DISCUSS] Apache OpenOffice Community Graduation Vote

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Aug 19, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:
>
>> I'm unable to vote either way until:
>>
>> A) a PMC chair has been identified by the community
>>
>> B) a resolution for the TLP is prepared which will define what we are
>> voting on
>>
>> Note, I'm generally in favour of the proposal but I do want to be sure that
>> the community has the resources it needs to continue to build and maintain
>> a healthy,vibrant and inclusive community. There are some candidates for
>> PMC chair that I can think of, but I don't know if they want the role.
>>
>> In a healthy community the PMC role is just taking responsibility for board
>> reports (not necessarily writing them, just making sure they get written)
>> and any community actions requested by the board. It shouldn't be a time
>> consuming role, but it can become so on occasion.
>>
>> This query should not prevent the community expressing their opinion in the
>> vote. I just wanted to let you know why I will be abstaining. You only need
>> my vote when it comes to the actual graduation vote.
>
> I understand.
>
> BTW - There are some Mentor related status items on [1] that need action. Would you be able to take care of those items?
>

So the items I see as not marked as done are:

1. Make sure that the requested project name does not already exist
and check www.nameprotect.com to be sure that the name is not already
trademarked for an existing software product.

2. Subscribe all Mentors on the pmc and general lists.

3. Give all Mentors access to the incubator SVN repository. (to be
done by the Incubator PMC chair or an Incubator PMC Member wih karma
for the authorizations file)

4. Tell Mentors to track progress in the file
'incubator/projects/{project.name}.html'

For 1, we came with a transferred trademark, from Oracle.  I think
that can be considered an alternative way of demonstrating uniqueness,
since that was required in the first instance to acquire the
registered trademark,  So maybe we just put down the date of the
transfer?

For 2, that is obviously done.  I assume it was done within hours of
the podling being created.

Ditto for 3.

For 4, this sounds incorrect.  It has been podling members, not
mentors, who have been maintaining the status file.  But for
completeness can we assume that the mentors were implicitly told to do
this when the IPMC approved the podling initially?

So is there anything on that list that you think needs Mentor
attention?  Anything else in the status file?

-Rob

> Thanks & Regards,
> Dave
>
> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/projects/openofficeorg.html
>
>>
>> Ross
>> On Aug 19, 2012 4:53 PM, "Rob Weir" <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Please vote in the main [VOTE] thread, and have discussion in this thread.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>

Re: [VOTE][DISCUSS] Apache OpenOffice Community Graduation Vote

[Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>]

On Aug 19, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:

> I'm unable to vote either way until:
> 
> A) a PMC chair has been identified by the community
> 
> B) a resolution for the TLP is prepared which will define what we are
> voting on
> 
> Note, I'm generally in favour of the proposal but I do want to be sure that
> the community has the resources it needs to continue to build and maintain
> a healthy,vibrant and inclusive community. There are some candidates for
> PMC chair that I can think of, but I don't know if they want the role.
> 
> In a healthy community the PMC role is just taking responsibility for board
> reports (not necessarily writing them, just making sure they get written)
> and any community actions requested by the board. It shouldn't be a time
> consuming role, but it can become so on occasion.
> 
> This query should not prevent the community expressing their opinion in the
> vote. I just wanted to let you know why I will be abstaining. You only need
> my vote when it comes to the actual graduation vote.

I understand.

BTW - There are some Mentor related status items on [1] that need action. Would you be able to take care of those items?

Thanks & Regards,
Dave

[1] http://incubator.apache.org/projects/openofficeorg.html

> 
> Ross
> On Aug 19, 2012 4:53 PM, "Rob Weir" <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> Please vote in the main [VOTE] thread, and have discussion in this thread.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> -Rob
>> 

Re: [VOTE][DISCUSS] Apache OpenOffice Community Graduation Vote

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Aug 19, 2012, at 3:58 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Ross Gardler
>> <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>>> I'm unable to vote either way until:
>>>
>>> A) a PMC chair has been identified by the community
>>>
>>> B) a resolution for the TLP is prepared which will define what we are
>>> voting on
>>>
>>
>> Those points will be addressed in the proposed Resolution we send to
>> the IPMC.  What we're having right now is the preliminary "community
>> graduation vote", which according this diagram from the IPMC's "Guide
>> to Successful Graduation" occurs *before* the charter is created:
>>
>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>
>> Not that this same guide says of this community vote, "It is unlikely
>> that IPMC members will vote to approve graduation unless the Mentors
>> and community positively express their readiness for graduation. "  So
>> I am slightly concerned that you do not feel able to vote in this
>> ballot, which merely expresses (per the graduation guidelines) our
>> readiness for graduation.
>
> "Community Graduation Vote
>
> "A community needs to be willing to govern itself before it can become a top level project. A good way to demonstrate this is through a free VOTE (by the community) on the graduation proposal.
>
> "This VOTE is not a requirement but is recommended. It is unlikely that IPMC members will vote to approve graduation unless the Mentors and community positively express their readiness for graduation. It is wise to copy the incubator general list when the vote is proposed."
>
> I think that "the graduation proposal" is often understood to be the Charter and therefore (1) and (2) are swapped in current, undocumented process, but I could be wrong.
>

Look at the diagram:
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

Do you see any way to read it consistent with your interpretation?

-Rob

> Regards,
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>> Note, I'm generally in favour of the proposal but I do want to be sure that
>>> the community has the resources it needs to continue to build and maintain
>>> a healthy,vibrant and inclusive community. There are some candidates for
>>> PMC chair that I can think of, but I don't know if they want the role.
>>>
>>> In a healthy community the PMC role is just taking responsibility for board
>>> reports (not necessarily writing them, just making sure they get written)
>>> and any community actions requested by the board. It shouldn't be a time
>>> consuming role, but it can become so on occasion.
>>>
>>> This query should not prevent the community expressing their opinion in the
>>> vote. I just wanted to let you know why I will be abstaining. You only need
>>> my vote when it comes to the actual graduation vote.
>>>
>>> Ross
>>> On Aug 19, 2012 4:53 PM, "Rob Weir" <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Please vote in the main [VOTE] thread, and have discussion in this thread.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> -Rob
>>>>
>

Re: [VOTE][DISCUSS] Apache OpenOffice Community Graduation Vote

[Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>]

On Aug 19, 2012, at 3:58 PM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Ross Gardler
> <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>> I'm unable to vote either way until:
>> 
>> A) a PMC chair has been identified by the community
>> 
>> B) a resolution for the TLP is prepared which will define what we are
>> voting on
>> 
> 
> Those points will be addressed in the proposed Resolution we send to
> the IPMC.  What we're having right now is the preliminary "community
> graduation vote", which according this diagram from the IPMC's "Guide
> to Successful Graduation" occurs *before* the charter is created:
> 
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
> 
> Not that this same guide says of this community vote, "It is unlikely
> that IPMC members will vote to approve graduation unless the Mentors
> and community positively express their readiness for graduation. "  So
> I am slightly concerned that you do not feel able to vote in this
> ballot, which merely expresses (per the graduation guidelines) our
> readiness for graduation.

"Community Graduation Vote

"A community needs to be willing to govern itself before it can become a top level project. A good way to demonstrate this is through a free VOTE (by the community) on the graduation proposal.

"This VOTE is not a requirement but is recommended. It is unlikely that IPMC members will vote to approve graduation unless the Mentors and community positively express their readiness for graduation. It is wise to copy the incubator general list when the vote is proposed."

I think that "the graduation proposal" is often understood to be the Charter and therefore (1) and (2) are swapped in current, undocumented process, but I could be wrong.

Regards,
Dave




> 
> -Rob
> 
>> Note, I'm generally in favour of the proposal but I do want to be sure that
>> the community has the resources it needs to continue to build and maintain
>> a healthy,vibrant and inclusive community. There are some candidates for
>> PMC chair that I can think of, but I don't know if they want the role.
>> 
>> In a healthy community the PMC role is just taking responsibility for board
>> reports (not necessarily writing them, just making sure they get written)
>> and any community actions requested by the board. It shouldn't be a time
>> consuming role, but it can become so on occasion.
>> 
>> This query should not prevent the community expressing their opinion in the
>> vote. I just wanted to let you know why I will be abstaining. You only need
>> my vote when it comes to the actual graduation vote.
>> 
>> Ross
>> On Aug 19, 2012 4:53 PM, "Rob Weir" <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Please vote in the main [VOTE] thread, and have discussion in this thread.
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> -Rob
>>> 

Re: [VOTE][DISCUSS] Apache OpenOffice Community Graduation Vote

[Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>]

I only wanted to indicate why I was abstaining. This need not be a concern.
I could have made no comment but that might have been interpreted as an
absent mentor by some.

I'm happy to explain my reasons further if anything is not clear, but
without understanding what part you don't understand its hard to expand on
my points. Instead I'll just try and reassure you.

The timeline graphic you point to is new to me. It looks really useful.
You'll note that I said I will abstain until I see the resolution
(including the PMC chair). You'll also note I said my abstention should not
affect the community vote. I believe my position is consistent with the
chart, which shows the community vote prior to the charter andthe IPMC (of
which I am a member) vote after the charter.

Ross
On Aug 19, 2012 11:59 PM, "Rob Weir" <ro...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Ross Gardler
> <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> > I'm unable to vote either way until:
> >
> > A) a PMC chair has been identified by the community
> >
> > B) a resolution for the TLP is prepared which will define what we are
> > voting on
> >
>
> Those points will be addressed in the proposed Resolution we send to
> the IPMC.  What we're having right now is the preliminary "community
> graduation vote", which according this diagram from the IPMC's "Guide
> to Successful Graduation" occurs *before* the charter is created:
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>
> Not that this same guide says of this community vote, "It is unlikely
> that IPMC members will vote to approve graduation unless the Mentors
> and community positively express their readiness for graduation. "  So
> I am slightly concerned that you do not feel able to vote in this
> ballot, which merely expresses (per the graduation guidelines) our
> readiness for graduation.
>
> -Rob
>
> > Note, I'm generally in favour of the proposal but I do want to be sure
> that
> > the community has the resources it needs to continue to build and
> maintain
> > a healthy,vibrant and inclusive community. There are some candidates for
> > PMC chair that I can think of, but I don't know if they want the role.
> >
> > In a healthy community the PMC role is just taking responsibility for
> board
> > reports (not necessarily writing them, just making sure they get written)
> > and any community actions requested by the board. It shouldn't be a time
> > consuming role, but it can become so on occasion.
> >
> > This query should not prevent the community expressing their opinion in
> the
> > vote. I just wanted to let you know why I will be abstaining. You only
> need
> > my vote when it comes to the actual graduation vote.
> >
> > Ross
> >  On Aug 19, 2012 4:53 PM, "Rob Weir" <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Please vote in the main [VOTE] thread, and have discussion in this
> thread.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >>
>

Re: [VOTE][DISCUSS] Apache OpenOffice Community Graduation Vote

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Ross Gardler
<rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> I'm unable to vote either way until:
>
> A) a PMC chair has been identified by the community
>
> B) a resolution for the TLP is prepared which will define what we are
> voting on
>

Those points will be addressed in the proposed Resolution we send to
the IPMC.  What we're having right now is the preliminary "community
graduation vote", which according this diagram from the IPMC's "Guide
to Successful Graduation" occurs *before* the charter is created:

http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

Not that this same guide says of this community vote, "It is unlikely
that IPMC members will vote to approve graduation unless the Mentors
and community positively express their readiness for graduation. "  So
I am slightly concerned that you do not feel able to vote in this
ballot, which merely expresses (per the graduation guidelines) our
readiness for graduation.

-Rob

> Note, I'm generally in favour of the proposal but I do want to be sure that
> the community has the resources it needs to continue to build and maintain
> a healthy,vibrant and inclusive community. There are some candidates for
> PMC chair that I can think of, but I don't know if they want the role.
>
> In a healthy community the PMC role is just taking responsibility for board
> reports (not necessarily writing them, just making sure they get written)
> and any community actions requested by the board. It shouldn't be a time
> consuming role, but it can become so on occasion.
>
> This query should not prevent the community expressing their opinion in the
> vote. I just wanted to let you know why I will be abstaining. You only need
> my vote when it comes to the actual graduation vote.
>
> Ross
>  On Aug 19, 2012 4:53 PM, "Rob Weir" <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Please vote in the main [VOTE] thread, and have discussion in this thread.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> -Rob
>>

Re: [VOTE][DISCUSS] Apache OpenOffice Community Graduation Vote

[Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>]

I'm unable to vote either way until:

A) a PMC chair has been identified by the community

B) a resolution for the TLP is prepared which will define what we are
voting on

Note, I'm generally in favour of the proposal but I do want to be sure that
the community has the resources it needs to continue to build and maintain
a healthy,vibrant and inclusive community. There are some candidates for
PMC chair that I can think of, but I don't know if they want the role.

In a healthy community the PMC role is just taking responsibility for board
reports (not necessarily writing them, just making sure they get written)
and any community actions requested by the board. It shouldn't be a time
consuming role, but it can become so on occasion.

This query should not prevent the community expressing their opinion in the
vote. I just wanted to let you know why I will be abstaining. You only need
my vote when it comes to the actual graduation vote.

Ross
 On Aug 19, 2012 4:53 PM, "Rob Weir" <ro...@apache.org> wrote:

> Please vote in the main [VOTE] thread, and have discussion in this thread.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Rob
>