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Posted to commits@subversion.apache.org by ha...@apache.org on 2022/01/02 03:18:55 UTC
svn commit: r1896611 - /subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
Author: hartmannathan
Date: Sun Jan 2 03:18:55 2022
New Revision: 1896611
URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=1896611&view=rev
Log:
* staging/mailing-lists.html:
(#list-list): Remove links to mail-archives.apache.org. This service is
shut down as of 31 Dec 2021 in favor of lists.apache.org.
Modified:
subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
Modified: subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html?rev=1896611&r1=1896610&r2=1896611&view=diff
==============================================================================
--- subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html (original)
+++ subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html Sun Jan 2 03:18:55 2022
@@ -156,8 +156,6 @@ delay for your post to appear (see below
<tr>
<td><strong>Archives:</strong></td>
<td><ul class="nobullet">
- <li><a href="https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/subversion-users/"
- >mail-archives.apache.org</a></li>
<li><a href="https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@subversion.apache.org"
>lists.apache.org</a> (searchable)</li>
<li><a href="https://svn.haxx.se/users/"
@@ -220,8 +218,6 @@ delay for your post to appear (see below
<tr>
<td><strong>Archives:</strong></td>
<td><ul class="nobullet">
- <li><a href="https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/subversion-dev/"
- >mail-archives.apache.org</a></li>
<li><a href="https://lists.apache.org/list.html?dev@subversion.apache.org"
>lists.apache.org</a> (searchable)</li>
<li><a href="https://svn.haxx.se/dev/"
@@ -264,8 +260,6 @@ delay for your post to appear (see below
<tr>
<td><strong>Archives:</strong></td>
<td><ul class="nobullet">
- <li><a href="https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/subversion-commits/"
- >mail-archives.apache.org</a></li>
<li><a href="https://lists.apache.org/list.html?commits@subversion.apache.org"
>lists.apache.org</a> (searchable)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/commits@subversion.apache.org/"
@@ -306,8 +300,6 @@ delay for your post to appear (see below
<tr>
<td><strong>Archives:</strong></td>
<td><ul class="nobullet">
- <li><a href="https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/subversion-announce/"
- >mail-archives.apache.org</a></li>
<li><a href="https://lists.apache.org/list.html?announce@subversion.apache.org"
>lists.apache.org</a> (searchable)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/announce@subversion.apache.org/"
@@ -357,8 +349,6 @@ delay for your post to appear (see below
<tr>
<td><strong>Archives:</strong></td>
<td><ul class="nobullet">
- <li><a href="https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/subversion-notifications/"
- >mail-archives.apache.org</a></li>
<li><a href="https://lists.apache.org/list.html?notifications@subversion.apache.org"
>lists.apache.org</a> (searchable)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/notifications@subversion.apache.org/"
Re: svn commit: r1896611 - /subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
Posted by Nathan Hartman <ha...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 7:35 AM Daniel Sahlberg
<da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I believe the percentage of users having a non-JavaScript browser these days is fairly small. I've added a <noscript> section linking to the table further down the page.
This works for me; with JavaScript disabled I was able to see the
additional message about lists.a.o requiring JavaScript. Agreed that
JavaScript-less browsers are more rare now. In Firefox I couldn't even
figure out where to turn it off to see the staging page without
JavaScript.
>> A downside of lists.a.o is that it doesn't contain the oldest part of the archive (neither did mail-archives.a.o). It is still searchable on svn.haxx.se.
>
> This issue is now resolved with the recent backfill.
Agreed.
> I'm not sure if there was formal consensus regarding which archive to use but I'm sticking my neck out and committing r1896702. Feel free to merge to trunk if you think this looks alright. (However be aware that site/staging also has a change to download.html which I'm not entirely happy about - more on that in a separate mail).
LGTM. Since it's the only ASF official archive and now does include
the backfill, let's use it as default; users with other preferences
have the detailed list list with plenty of other choices.
Thanks for taking care of that.
Cheers,
Nathan
Re: svn commit: r1896611 - /subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
Posted by Daniel Sahlberg <da...@gmail.com>.
Circling back and quoting a (relatively) old message since the thread went
from discussing our website to discussing different mail archive sites.
Den sön 2 jan. 2022 kl 12:27 skrev Daniel Sahlberg <
daniel.l.sahlberg@gmail.com>:
> Den sön 2 jan. 2022 kl 04:29 skrev Nathan Hartman <
> hartman.nathan@gmail.com>:
>
>> On Sat, Jan 1, 2022 at 10:18 PM <ha...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Author: hartmannathan
>> > Date: Sun Jan 2 03:18:55 2022
>> > New Revision: 1896611
>> >
>> > URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=1896611&view=rev
>> > Log:
>> > * staging/mailing-lists.html:
>> > (#list-list): Remove links to mail-archives.apache.org. This service
>> is
>> > shut down as of 31 Dec 2021 in favor of lists.apache.org.
>> >
>> > Modified:
>> > subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
>> >
>> > Modified: subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
>> > URL:
>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html?rev=1896611&r1=1896610&r2=1896611&view=diff
>
>
> The commit LGTM, thanks!
>
>
>> ASF shut down the oldie but goodie mail-archives.apache.org in favor
>> of lists.apache.org today.
>>
>
> :-(
>
> This commit updates the staging site. It will need a follow-up, but I
>> don't (yet) know what that follow-up should be:
>>
>> Currently on our mailing lists page, we have the Google SiteSearch box
>> for user convenience to search the archives. This searches in the
>> mail-archives.apache.org domain and uses inurl:subversion as explained
>> in the comment there to search only in Subversion's list archives.
>>
>> With the retirement of mail-archives.apache.org, clearly this will not
>> work anymore.
>>
>> Maybe it'll work if I just substitute the URLs, but I'm a bit
>> skeptical because of the query string; i.e., whereas mail-archives
>> URLs looked like this:
>>
>> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/subversion-users/
>>
>> lists.apache.org URLs look like this:
>>
>> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@subversion.apache.org
>
>
> I can't find this documented anywhere but I was poking around the code [1]
> and it is seems to work like this. The request string consists of three
> parts separated by colon:
> - The list name (users@subversion.apache.org etc.). It seems it can also
> be *@subversion.apache.org, which is probably reasonable for the search
> widget.
> - The time period. If empty it defaults to the last month, no way of
> saying "since forever" except faking a date long ago. For example lte=100y.
> - The search keyword(s).
>
> For example
> https://lists.apache.org/list?*@subversion.apache.org:lte=100y:site+cleanup
>
> I'm not fond of the URLs since it is impossible (at least for me) to make
> a plain form that translate into that kind of URL. I've sent a question to
> users@ponymail.a.o [2]. I can do it using javascript, see the attached
> patch.
>
Someone on the ponymail ML suggested the same link as above except gte=0d
(which of course is better).
I'm using the Vanilla JS[3] framework which I hope should be acceptable to
everyone.
During our last overhaul of the page, we tried hard to make the form
> useable for users without javascript. However lists.a.o require javascript
> so that point is probably moot if we go this way, in which case the
> attached patch is probably ok.
>
I believe the percentage of users having a non-JavaScript browser these
days is fairly small. I've added a <noscript> section linking to the table
further down the page.
A downside of lists.a.o is that it doesn't contain the oldest part of the
> archive (neither did mail-archives.a.o). It is still searchable on
> svn.haxx.se.
>
This issue is now resolved with the recent backfill.
marc.info is both textfriendly and non-javascript-friendly, is up-to-date
> and has the older mails not in lists.a.o (except a hole in users@s.a.o
> between 2003-08 and 2006-04 which is only served by svn.haxx.se). It is
> probably a lot easier to create a form in our site linking to this site.
> But I'm not fond of using yet another external service.
>
I'm not sure if there was formal consensus regarding which archive to use
but I'm sticking my neck out and committing r1896702. Feel free to merge to
trunk if you think this looks alright. (However be aware that site/staging
also has a change to download.html which I'm not entirely happy about -
more on that in a separate mail).
Kind regards,
Daniel Sahlberg
[1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-ponymail-foal
> [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/n47hcfdt6z70tqxvnhgn3zrdwqgg36yl
>
[3] http://vanilla-js.com/
Re: svn commit: r1896611 - /subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 7:58 PM Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name> wrote:
> Greg Stein wrote on Tue, Jan 04, 2022 at 06:31:16 -0600:
> > On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 2:18 AM Daniel Sahlberg <
> daniel.l.sahlberg@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Den mån 3 jan. 2022 kl 06:27 skrev Daniel Shahaf <
> d.s@daniel.shahaf.name>:
>
>...
> > >> I don't see the problem. We point folks on users@ to git/hg if those
> > >> suit their needs better, so what's stopping us from pointing our users
> > >> to an external list archive?
> > >
> > DShahaf is very Right. There are a dozen third party services supporting
> > the Apache Subversion community. There really isn't a reason to fear this
> > one. Especially when the Foundation has a contractual relationship with
> > them.
>
> That's not what I said. You might've been thinking of Daniel Gruno.
>
There are a lot of Daniels around, but you basically said that right above
in the part I quoted. "I don't see the problem. ..."
If you meant marc.info by "an external list archive" rather than lists.a.o,
then sure: your sentence reads quite differently :-)
[DSahlberg:]
> > > I'm just worried that we point someone to an external archive, start to
> > > accumulate a lot of links and suddenly the external party lose
> interest in
> > > maintaining the site and we end up in a situation where we have a lot
> of
> > > links that suddenly are 404. Similar to what happened to svn.haxx.se a
>
[me:]
> > Key difference: lists.apache.org compared to svn.haxx.se
> >
> > Should the Foundation ever terminate its agreement with the lists.a.o
> > service provider, we can provide redirection since we "own" the hostname
> > and can run a redirection service. Please don't worry about 404s. We have
> > spent the past couple years building redirection rules for
> > mail-archives.a.o, over to lists.a.o. Those are still being
> > tweaked/modified, as we speak. That same kind of effort will apply to any
> > lists.a.o turn-off, should it ever happen one day.
>
> Are lists.a.o permalinks permanent, as the name implies?
Yes.
> Even if they are, you're ignoring the points about lists.a.o requiring
> javascript and requiring being online to resolve links. It's well
Not ignoring it. Just don't have an answer. (but I did re: lists.a.o
permanence)
> within this PMC's mandate to decide to use an archive whose links are
> resolvable offline (which entails usability and privacy wins) and
>
Of course. I'm trying to be helpful here, not antagonistic, Daniel.
Cheers,
-g
Re: svn commit: r1896611 - /subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
Posted by Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>.
Greg Stein wrote on Tue, Jan 04, 2022 at 06:31:16 -0600:
> On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 2:18 AM Daniel Sahlberg <da...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Den mån 3 jan. 2022 kl 06:27 skrev Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>:
> >
> >...
>
> >> I don't see the problem. We point folks on users@ to git/hg if those
> >> suit their needs better, so what's stopping us from pointing our users
> >> to an external list archive?
> >>
> >
> DShahaf is very Right. There are a dozen third party services supporting
> the Apache Subversion community. There really isn't a reason to fear this
> one. Especially when the Foundation has a contractual relationship with
> them.
That's not what I said. You might've been thinking of Daniel Gruno.
> > I'm just worried that we point someone to an external archive, start to
> > accumulate a lot of links and suddenly the external party lose interest in
> > maintaining the site and we end up in a situation where we have a lot of
> > links that suddenly are 404. Similar to what happened to svn.haxx.se a
> >
>
> Key difference: lists.apache.org compared to svn.haxx.se
>
> Should the Foundation ever terminate its agreement with the lists.a.o
> service provider, we can provide redirection since we "own" the hostname
> and can run a redirection service. Please don't worry about 404s. We have
> spent the past couple years building redirection rules for
> mail-archives.a.o, over to lists.a.o. Those are still being
> tweaked/modified, as we speak. That same kind of effort will apply to any
> lists.a.o turn-off, should it ever happen one day.
>
Are lists.a.o permalinks permanent, as the name implies?
Even if they are, you're ignoring the points about lists.a.o requiring
javascript and requiring being online to resolve links. It's well
within this PMC's mandate to decide to use an archive whose links are
resolvable offline (which entails usability and privacy wins) and
doesn't require javascript. [Citation: the second sentence of
<https://mail-search.apache.org/pmc/private-arch/subversion-private/201006.mbox/%3CAANLkTilI5bFwnvUMY69FrNj8VYjXZU_wd7GHynAjeZ0t%40mail.gmail.com%3E>.
Sorry, I didn't find a world-readable citation.]
Daniel
(who wishes that link would turn out to be 404ing; that'd make my point so well)
> Regards,
> Greg
> InfraAdmin, ASF; fellow svn
Re: svn commit: r1896611 - /subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 7:02 AM Daniel Sahlberg <da...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>...
> I think this is a case of too much removed context replying to the e-mails.
>
> My comment "I'm not fond of using yet another external service." was
> related to using marc.info as new source of message search.
>
Gotcha. Yes, going back and re-reading, I see that now.
Thx,
-g
Re: svn commit: r1896611 - /subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
Posted by Daniel Sahlberg <da...@gmail.com>.
Den tis 4 jan. 2022 kl 13:31 skrev Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>:
> On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 2:18 AM Daniel Sahlberg <
> daniel.l.sahlberg@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Den mån 3 jan. 2022 kl 06:27 skrev Daniel Shahaf <d.s@daniel.shahaf.name
>> >:
>>
> >...
>
>> I don't see the problem. We point folks on users@ to git/hg if those
>>> suit their needs better, so what's stopping us from pointing our users
>>> to an external list archive?
>>>
>>
> DShahaf is very Right. There are a dozen third party services supporting
> the Apache Subversion community. There really isn't a reason to fear this
> one. Especially when the Foundation has a contractual relationship with
> them.
>
I think this is a case of too much removed context replying to the e-mails.
My comment "I'm not fond of using yet another external service." was
related to using marc.info as new source of message search. To me lists.a.o
is an "internal" service since it belongs to ASF (the important part being
the domain, no matter what party is the service provider).
lists.a.o has two downsides
- I can't find a way to construct a form that submits directly to lists.a.o
without Javascript. (I have asked on users@ponymail.a.o if there is another
way).
- It doesn't have our pre-ASF history.
marc.info doesn't have these downsides so from that point of view it is
superior to lists.a.o. But, for exactly the reasons you mention, "I'm not
fond of using yet another external service".
Kind regards,
Daniel
Re: svn commit: r1896611 - /subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 2:18 AM Daniel Sahlberg <da...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Den mån 3 jan. 2022 kl 06:27 skrev Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>:
>
>...
> I don't see the problem. We point folks on users@ to git/hg if those
>> suit their needs better, so what's stopping us from pointing our users
>> to an external list archive?
>>
>
DShahaf is very Right. There are a dozen third party services supporting
the Apache Subversion community. There really isn't a reason to fear this
one. Especially when the Foundation has a contractual relationship with
them.
I'm just worried that we point someone to an external archive, start to
> accumulate a lot of links and suddenly the external party lose interest in
> maintaining the site and we end up in a situation where we have a lot of
> links that suddenly are 404. Similar to what happened to svn.haxx.se a
>
Key difference: lists.apache.org compared to svn.haxx.se
Should the Foundation ever terminate its agreement with the lists.a.o
service provider, we can provide redirection since we "own" the hostname
and can run a redirection service. Please don't worry about 404s. We have
spent the past couple years building redirection rules for
mail-archives.a.o, over to lists.a.o. Those are still being
tweaked/modified, as we speak. That same kind of effort will apply to any
lists.a.o turn-off, should it ever happen one day.
Regards,
Greg
InfraAdmin, ASF; fellow svn
Re: svn commit: r1896611 - /subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
Posted by Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>.
Daniel Sahlberg wrote on Mon, Jan 03, 2022 at 09:18:26 +0100:
> Den mån 3 jan. 2022 kl 06:27 skrev Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>:
>
> > Daniel Sahlberg wrote on Sun, 02 Jan 2022 11:27 +00:00:
> > > [...]
> >
> > Thanks for all the [snipped] research!
> >
> > > But I'm not fond of using yet another external service.
> >
> > I don't see the problem. We point folks on users@ to git/hg if those
> > suit their needs better, so what's stopping us from pointing our users
> > to an external list archive?
> >
>
> I'm just worried that we point someone to an external archive, start to
> accumulate a lot of links and suddenly the external party lose interest in
> maintaining the site and we end up in a situation where we have a lot of
> links that suddenly are 404.
Fair enough. We tried to mitigate this for svn.haxx.se with that cron
job that retrieved the message-ID's of everything /site/publish linked
to, but even that didn't account for, say, links in random dev@ messages.
> Similar to what happened to svn.haxx.se a year
> ago (it turned out well but we can't expect everyone to be as accommodating
> as Daniel Stenberg was/is, or maybe we don't even /want/ to take it over as
> I would suspect in the case of marc.info where there is a lot of
> non-svn-related data).
Well, we wouldn't have to take over the entirety of marc.info, and at
any rate doing so would be out of scope for the project.
> > I'll wait for some comments before committing anything (or feel free to
> > > commit the patch as attached or updated).
> >
> > At this point I have to say, what's stopping us from just setting up our
> > own archives, encompassing all our history including the pre-ASF one?
> >
>
> Nothing except the work to be done and to maintain it. I don't think I can
> volunteer any time to this atm (preferring to look at the code).
>
Fair enough. I have a number of other things on my plate right now too,
but if anyone else has tuits, I'm happy to give pointers. (I happen to
maintain a small mhonarc instance elsewhere.)
> > The hard part of having archives is that it requires having a box online
> > that someone needs to apply OS updates to — but we already have
> > svn-qavm, so all that remains is to install some archive software
> > (mod_mbox or mhonarc or whatever else), load the haxx+apache archives to
> > it, and subscribe it to the mailing lists.
> >
>
> I've heard there is also an Apache project called Ponymail. (*taking
> cover!*)
>
I've heard of it too, but my colleague Daniel pointed out¹ that using
that project would bump the minimum software requirements required for
browsing our Web site.
Cheers,
Daniel
(one of them, I forget which :P)
¹ https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/subversion-dev/202201.mbox/%3CCAMHy98Ok6Cy7poDZsS8djhBCmAProcvc3ED8dCJzwkmE6xhX6g%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> > (For mhonarc, the incantation is «mhonarc -add» with the message on
> > stdin. mod_mbox parses mbox files dynamically; there's a monthly cron
> > job that rotates the delivery paths in the .forward file. Other archivers
> > exist.)
> >
> > Daniel
> >
>
> /The other Daniel
>
>
> > P.S. If we do the above work, the marginal cost of adding APR's or serf's
> > or for that matter curl's lists to the set-up will be fairly low. That was
> > the concept behind gmane.
Re: svn commit: r1896611 - /subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
Posted by Daniel Sahlberg <da...@gmail.com>.
Den mån 3 jan. 2022 kl 06:27 skrev Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>:
> Daniel Sahlberg wrote on Sun, 02 Jan 2022 11:27 +00:00:
> > [...]
>
> Thanks for all the [snipped] research!
>
> > But I'm not fond of using yet another external service.
>
> I don't see the problem. We point folks on users@ to git/hg if those
> suit their needs better, so what's stopping us from pointing our users
> to an external list archive?
>
I'm just worried that we point someone to an external archive, start to
accumulate a lot of links and suddenly the external party lose interest in
maintaining the site and we end up in a situation where we have a lot of
links that suddenly are 404. Similar to what happened to svn.haxx.se a year
ago (it turned out well but we can't expect everyone to be as accommodating
as Daniel Stenberg was/is, or maybe we don't even /want/ to take it over as
I would suspect in the case of marc.info where there is a lot of
non-svn-related data).
> I'll wait for some comments before committing anything (or feel free to
> > commit the patch as attached or updated).
>
> At this point I have to say, what's stopping us from just setting up our
> own archives, encompassing all our history including the pre-ASF one?
>
Nothing except the work to be done and to maintain it. I don't think I can
volunteer any time to this atm (preferring to look at the code).
The hard part of having archives is that it requires having a box online
> that someone needs to apply OS updates to — but we already have
> svn-qavm, so all that remains is to install some archive software
> (mod_mbox or mhonarc or whatever else), load the haxx+apache archives to
> it, and subscribe it to the mailing lists.
>
I've heard there is also an Apache project called Ponymail. (*taking
cover!*)
> (For mhonarc, the incantation is «mhonarc -add» with the message on
> stdin. mod_mbox parses mbox files dynamically; there's a monthly cron
> job that rotates the delivery paths in the .forward file. Other archivers
> exist.)
>
> Daniel
>
/The other Daniel
> P.S. If we do the above work, the marginal cost of adding APR's or serf's
> or for that matter curl's lists to the set-up will be fairly low. That was
> the concept behind gmane.
>
Re: svn commit: r1896611 - /subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
Posted by Daniel Shahaf <d....@daniel.shahaf.name>.
Daniel Sahlberg wrote on Sun, 02 Jan 2022 11:27 +00:00:
> [...]
Thanks for all the [snipped] research!
> But I'm not fond of using yet another external service.
I don't see the problem. We point folks on users@ to git/hg if those
suit their needs better, so what's stopping us from pointing our users
to an external list archive?
> I'll wait for some comments before committing anything (or feel free to
> commit the patch as attached or updated).
At this point I have to say, what's stopping us from just setting up our
own archives, encompassing all our history including the pre-ASF one?
The hard part of having archives is that it requires having a box online
that someone needs to apply OS updates to — but we already have
svn-qavm, so all that remains is to install some archive software
(mod_mbox or mhonarc or whatever else), load the haxx+apache archives to
it, and subscribe it to the mailing lists.
(For mhonarc, the incantation is «mhonarc -add» with the message on
stdin. mod_mbox parses mbox files dynamically; there's a monthly cron
job that rotates the delivery paths in the .forward file. Other archivers exist.)
Daniel
P.S. If we do the above work, the marginal cost of adding APR's or serf's
or for that matter curl's lists to the set-up will be fairly low. That was
the concept behind gmane.
Re: svn commit: r1896611 - /subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
Posted by Daniel Sahlberg <da...@gmail.com>.
Den sön 2 jan. 2022 kl 04:29 skrev Nathan Hartman <hartman.nathan@gmail.com
>:
> On Sat, Jan 1, 2022 at 10:18 PM <ha...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Author: hartmannathan
> > Date: Sun Jan 2 03:18:55 2022
> > New Revision: 1896611
> >
> > URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=1896611&view=rev
> > Log:
> > * staging/mailing-lists.html:
> > (#list-list): Remove links to mail-archives.apache.org. This service
> is
> > shut down as of 31 Dec 2021 in favor of lists.apache.org.
> >
> > Modified:
> > subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
> >
> > Modified: subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
> > URL:
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html?rev=1896611&r1=1896610&r2=1896611&view=diff
The commit LGTM, thanks!
> ASF shut down the oldie but goodie mail-archives.apache.org in favor
> of lists.apache.org today.
>
:-(
This commit updates the staging site. It will need a follow-up, but I
> don't (yet) know what that follow-up should be:
>
> Currently on our mailing lists page, we have the Google SiteSearch box
> for user convenience to search the archives. This searches in the
> mail-archives.apache.org domain and uses inurl:subversion as explained
> in the comment there to search only in Subversion's list archives.
>
> With the retirement of mail-archives.apache.org, clearly this will not
> work anymore.
>
> Maybe it'll work if I just substitute the URLs, but I'm a bit
> skeptical because of the query string; i.e., whereas mail-archives
> URLs looked like this:
>
> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/subversion-users/
>
> lists.apache.org URLs look like this:
>
> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@subversion.apache.org
I can't find this documented anywhere but I was poking around the code [1]
and it is seems to work like this. The request string consists of three
parts separated by colon:
- The list name (users@subversion.apache.org etc.). It seems it can also be
*@subversion.apache.org, which is probably reasonable for the search widget.
- The time period. If empty it defaults to the last month, no way of saying
"since forever" except faking a date long ago. For example lte=100y.
- The search keyword(s).
For example
https://lists.apache.org/list?*@subversion.apache.org:lte=100y:site+cleanup
I'm not fond of the URLs since it is impossible (at least for me) to make a
plain form that translate into that kind of URL. I've sent a question to
users@ponymail.a.o [2]. I can do it using javascript, see the attached
patch.
During our last overhaul of the page, we tried hard to make the form
useable for users without javascript. However lists.a.o require javascript
so that point is probably moot if we go this way, in which case the
attached patch is probably ok.
A downside of lists.a.o is that it doesn't contain the oldest part of the
archive (neither did mail-archives.a.o). It is still searchable on
svn.haxx.se.
marc.info is both textfriendly and non-javascript-friendly, is up-to-date
and has the older mails not in lists.a.o (except a hole in users@s.a.o
between 2003-08 and 2006-04 which is only served by svn.haxx.se). It is
probably a lot easier to create a form in our site linking to this site.
But I'm not fond of using yet another external service.
I'll wait for some comments before committing anything (or feel free to
commit the patch as attached or updated).
Kind regards,
Daniel
[1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-ponymail-foal
[2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/n47hcfdt6z70tqxvnhgn3zrdwqgg36yl
Re: svn commit: r1896611 - /subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
Posted by Nathan Hartman <ha...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Jan 1, 2022 at 10:18 PM <ha...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Author: hartmannathan
> Date: Sun Jan 2 03:18:55 2022
> New Revision: 1896611
>
> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=1896611&view=rev
> Log:
> * staging/mailing-lists.html:
> (#list-list): Remove links to mail-archives.apache.org. This service is
> shut down as of 31 Dec 2021 in favor of lists.apache.org.
>
> Modified:
> subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
>
> Modified: subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html
> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html?rev=1896611&r1=1896610&r2=1896611&view=diff
> ==============================================================================
> --- subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html (original)
> +++ subversion/site/staging/mailing-lists.html Sun Jan 2 03:18:55 2022
> @@ -156,8 +156,6 @@ delay for your post to appear (see below
> <tr>
> <td><strong>Archives:</strong></td>
> <td><ul class="nobullet">
> - <li><a href="https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/subversion-users/"
> - >mail-archives.apache.org</a></li>
> <li><a href="https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@subversion.apache.org"
> >lists.apache.org</a> (searchable)</li>
> <li><a href="https://svn.haxx.se/users/"
> @@ -220,8 +218,6 @@ delay for your post to appear (see below
> <tr>
> <td><strong>Archives:</strong></td>
> <td><ul class="nobullet">
> - <li><a href="https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/subversion-dev/"
> - >mail-archives.apache.org</a></li>
> <li><a href="https://lists.apache.org/list.html?dev@subversion.apache.org"
> >lists.apache.org</a> (searchable)</li>
> <li><a href="https://svn.haxx.se/dev/"
> @@ -264,8 +260,6 @@ delay for your post to appear (see below
> <tr>
> <td><strong>Archives:</strong></td>
> <td><ul class="nobullet">
> - <li><a href="https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/subversion-commits/"
> - >mail-archives.apache.org</a></li>
> <li><a href="https://lists.apache.org/list.html?commits@subversion.apache.org"
> >lists.apache.org</a> (searchable)</li>
> <li><a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/commits@subversion.apache.org/"
> @@ -306,8 +300,6 @@ delay for your post to appear (see below
> <tr>
> <td><strong>Archives:</strong></td>
> <td><ul class="nobullet">
> - <li><a href="https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/subversion-announce/"
> - >mail-archives.apache.org</a></li>
> <li><a href="https://lists.apache.org/list.html?announce@subversion.apache.org"
> >lists.apache.org</a> (searchable)</li>
> <li><a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/announce@subversion.apache.org/"
> @@ -357,8 +349,6 @@ delay for your post to appear (see below
> <tr>
> <td><strong>Archives:</strong></td>
> <td><ul class="nobullet">
> - <li><a href="https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/subversion-notifications/"
> - >mail-archives.apache.org</a></li>
> <li><a href="https://lists.apache.org/list.html?notifications@subversion.apache.org"
> >lists.apache.org</a> (searchable)</li>
> <li><a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/notifications@subversion.apache.org/"
ASF shut down the oldie but goodie mail-archives.apache.org in favor
of lists.apache.org today.
This commit updates the staging site. It will need a follow-up, but I
don't (yet) know what that follow-up should be:
Currently on our mailing lists page, we have the Google SiteSearch box
for user convenience to search the archives. This searches in the
mail-archives.apache.org domain and uses inurl:subversion as explained
in the comment there to search only in Subversion's list archives.
With the retirement of mail-archives.apache.org, clearly this will not
work anymore.
Maybe it'll work if I just substitute the URLs, but I'm a bit
skeptical because of the query string; i.e., whereas mail-archives
URLs looked like this:
https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/subversion-users/
lists.apache.org URLs look like this:
https://lists.apache.org/list.html?users@subversion.apache.org
Thoughts?
Nathan