areas and usecases (Re: [Proposal] Tabbed usecases)

["J. Wolfgang Kaltz" <ka...@interactivesystems.info>]

First: regarding the recent changes in trunk, PotB (pat on the back) 
Andreas ! I like what you've done regarding admin & site usecases so 
far; GUIs are similarly structured now (an important usability issue) 
and internal handling is much clearer. IMO definitely an important step.


Andreas Hartmann schrieb:
> J. Wolfgang Kaltz wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>   <component-instance
>>      class="org.apache.lenya.cms.ac.usecases.AddUser"
>>      logger="lenya.admin"
>>      name="admin.addUser">
>>      <parameter name="area" value="admin" />
> 
> 
> Hmmmm, spinning this thought a little further - that way we could get
> rid of the "pseudo-areas" admin and info-*.
> 
> We could clearly separate "main tabs" and "areas", whereas main tabs
> refer to the tab which is selected in the Lenya menubar (admin/site/...)
> and the area refers to the "content store" of the presented document
> (authoring/live/archive/trash/...).
> 
> The main tab would be determined using the usecase view setting. If no
> usecase is called, the tab defaults to the area of the document.

Interesting.
IIUC (rephrasing you just to make sure we are talking of the same thing :) )
- you propose to define "area" as the area of storage of the document
that the user is currently looking at. As you said above: looking at the 
state currently in authoring, or an archived version, etc.
- admin and info, which were called area thus far, would no longer be 
areas, just tabs (that is, an organization of usecases into two levels 
of tabs). Something to consider here is authorization, right now IIUC 
the URL pattern is important; this could be transfered to authorization 
at the use-case level (which is maybe better in any case)


Along those lines, one thing I am wondering is whether we should have a 
clearer distinction between "live" and "everything else".
So perhaps 2 strict zones: "live" and "cms". The CMS tabs and use-cases 
would then be organized underneath the "cms" zone.


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Re: areas and usecases (Re: [Proposal] Tabbed usecases)

[Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>]

Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
> J. Wolfgang Kaltz wrote:
> 
>> Interesting.
>> IIUC (rephrasing you just to make sure we are talking of the same 
>> thing :) )
>> - you propose to define "area" as the area of storage of the document
>> that the user is currently looking at. As you said above: looking at 
>> the state currently in authoring, or an archived version, etc.
>> - admin and info, which were called area thus far, would no longer be 
>> areas, just tabs (that is, an organization of usecases into two levels 
>> of tabs). Something to consider here is authorization, right now IIUC 
>> the URL pattern is important; this could be transfered to 
>> authorization at the use-case level (which is maybe better in any case)
>>
>>
>> Along those lines, one thing I am wondering is whether we should have 
>> a clearer distinction between "live" and "everything else".
>> So perhaps 2 strict zones: "live" and "cms". The CMS tabs and 
>> use-cases would then be organized underneath the "cms" zone.
> 
> 
> i think one of the reasons andreas wants to get rid of the area concept 
> that he did not mention is the mysterious staging area. we made staging 
> work for some of our customers, but never rolled those changes back into 
> lenya itself. maybe with these changes, that becomes easier as well?

Actually it shouldn't be a problem to use the staging area even now.
The area has to be enabled in the menu declaration and the submit / publish
etc. usecases have to be overridden. But maybe I'm missing something :)

-- Andreas

> agreed that the info and admin areas were just hacks at the time. same 
> for archive and trash (which we could handle differently now, i presume)


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Re: areas and usecases (Re: [Proposal] Tabbed usecases)

["Gregor J. Rothfuss" <gr...@apache.org>]

J. Wolfgang Kaltz wrote:

> Interesting.
> IIUC (rephrasing you just to make sure we are talking of the same thing 
> :) )
> - you propose to define "area" as the area of storage of the document
> that the user is currently looking at. As you said above: looking at the 
> state currently in authoring, or an archived version, etc.
> - admin and info, which were called area thus far, would no longer be 
> areas, just tabs (that is, an organization of usecases into two levels 
> of tabs). Something to consider here is authorization, right now IIUC 
> the URL pattern is important; this could be transfered to authorization 
> at the use-case level (which is maybe better in any case)
> 
> 
> Along those lines, one thing I am wondering is whether we should have a 
> clearer distinction between "live" and "everything else".
> So perhaps 2 strict zones: "live" and "cms". The CMS tabs and use-cases 
> would then be organized underneath the "cms" zone.

i think one of the reasons andreas wants to get rid of the area concept 
that he did not mention is the mysterious staging area. we made staging 
work for some of our customers, but never rolled those changes back into 
lenya itself. maybe with these changes, that becomes easier as well?

agreed that the info and admin areas were just hacks at the time. same 
for archive and trash (which we could handle differently now, i presume)

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Re: areas and usecases (Re: [Proposal] Tabbed usecases)

[Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>]

J. Wolfgang Kaltz wrote:

[...]

>> Hmmmm, spinning this thought a little further - that way we could get
>> rid of the "pseudo-areas" admin and info-*.
>>
>> We could clearly separate "main tabs" and "areas", whereas main tabs
>> refer to the tab which is selected in the Lenya menubar (admin/site/...)
>> and the area refers to the "content store" of the presented document
>> (authoring/live/archive/trash/...).
>>
>> The main tab would be determined using the usecase view setting. If no
>> usecase is called, the tab defaults to the area of the document.
> 
> 
> Interesting.
> IIUC (rephrasing you just to make sure we are talking of the same thing 
> :) )
> - you propose to define "area" as the area of storage of the document
> that the user is currently looking at. As you said above: looking at the 
> state currently in authoring, or an archived version, etc.
> - admin and info, which were called area thus far, would no longer be 
> areas, just tabs (that is, an organization of usecases into two levels 
> of tabs). Something to consider here is authorization, right now IIUC 
> the URL pattern is important; this could be transfered to authorization 
> at the use-case level (which is maybe better in any case)

Yes, I think that would make sense. We already have per-usecase
authorization (UsecaseAuthorizer + usecase-policies.xml). Maybe this
has to be extended, for instance to allow users to edit only their
own profile+password. A GUI for usecase policies would certainly be
nice and quite easy to implement (given that a list of all available
usecases is maintained).


> Along those lines, one thing I am wondering is whether we should have a 
> clearer distinction between "live" and "everything else".

IMO that depends on two questions:

1) Does Lenya see itself as a plain CMS, or do we want to support
    the development of web applications with CMS functionality? The latter
    could include to provide menus and usecases in the live area as well.

2) Can we optimize the live area performance if we treat it in a
    completely different (streamlined) way than the CMS areas?

-- Andreas

> So perhaps 2 strict zones: "live" and "cms". The CMS tabs and use-cases 
> would then be organized underneath the "cms" zone.


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