Use of Sandesha in Celtix?

[Andrea Smyth <an...@iona.com>]

Hello,

I have only recently joined the sandesha-dev mailing list and noticed 
that you now support both Axis 1.x and Axis 2.0  (with Sandesha1 and 
Sandesha2 resp).
Have you been considering to provide the 3 Sandesha handlers 
alternatively as JAX-WS 2.0 handlers?
Do all components have equally strong dependencies on Axis, e.g. could 
the Storage Framework be used more or less as is while handlers would 
need to be replaced/ported?
The reason I am asking is that we are considering the use of Sandesha 
for WS-RM support in Celtix - an open source ESB project hosted on 
Objectweb, see http://celtix.objectweb.org/.
 I'd appreciate any feedback that would help us decide if Sandesha is an 
option for Celtix.

Regards,
Andrea.

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Re: Use of Sandesha in Celtix?

[Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>]

Sanjiva

You make a good point. WSRM requires not only handlers but also it needs to
implement endpoints, and to compose those endpoints with existing service
endpoints. So there would be some work involved in making Sandesha fit.
Personally I think that there is plenty of work to do already. Sandesha is a
great start but in addition to supporting the changes that the WSRX
committee are making, there is also a lot of extra work to make Sandesha
solid enough to rival a traditional RM product - which I would love to
acheive.

So while I wouldn't discourage anyone from doing JAXWS (which I think would
be pretty cool), I personally would put it lower down the priority list
until Axis supports JAXWS.

Having said all that, if Celtix can manage to get it to work on both Axis
and JAXWS that would be great!

Paul

On 12/4/05, Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 2005-12-02 at 08:57 +0600, Chamikara Jayalath wrote:
> > Hi Andrea,
> >
> > Many parts of Sandesha2 (e.g. Handlers, Invoker, Sender) have strong
> > dependencies on Axis2. So you will have to do some work to get them
> > ported. I think this is the same for  Sandesha1.
>
> Axis2 was carefully designed to allow and support the existence of
> components such as Sandesha2 which extend Axis2. As such, Sandesha2 has
> to depend on Axis2 concepts in order to do the best possible RM
> implementation for Axis2. If we were to have Sandesha2 access Axis2
> behind some standard interfaces, we'd lose all of those capabilities and
> instead would have to use a much more muted/weak interface. That doesn't
> make any sense from Sandesha2's point of view because it can't maximize
> the capabilities of the SOAP stack its providing RM for.
>
> Now, if someone wants to provide a layer over Sandesha2 that makes it
> JAX-WS compliant that's fine of course. However, it is not fine IMO to
> make Sandesha2 directly JAX-WS dependent instead of Axis2 dependent
> because then we'd be losing quality not gaining it.
>
> Sanjiva.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: sandesha-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: sandesha-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>

Re: Use of Sandesha in Celtix?

[Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>]

Sanjiva

You make a good point. WSRM requires not only handlers but also it needs to
implement endpoints, and to compose those endpoints with existing service
endpoints. So there would be some work involved in making Sandesha fit.
Personally I think that there is plenty of work to do already. Sandesha is a
great start but in addition to supporting the changes that the WSRX
committee are making, there is also a lot of extra work to make Sandesha
solid enough to rival a traditional RM product - which I would love to
acheive.

So while I wouldn't discourage anyone from doing JAXWS (which I think would
be pretty cool), I personally would put it lower down the priority list
until Axis supports JAXWS.

Having said all that, if Celtix can manage to get it to work on both Axis
and JAXWS that would be great!

Paul

On 12/4/05, Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 2005-12-02 at 08:57 +0600, Chamikara Jayalath wrote:
> > Hi Andrea,
> >
> > Many parts of Sandesha2 (e.g. Handlers, Invoker, Sender) have strong
> > dependencies on Axis2. So you will have to do some work to get them
> > ported. I think this is the same for  Sandesha1.
>
> Axis2 was carefully designed to allow and support the existence of
> components such as Sandesha2 which extend Axis2. As such, Sandesha2 has
> to depend on Axis2 concepts in order to do the best possible RM
> implementation for Axis2. If we were to have Sandesha2 access Axis2
> behind some standard interfaces, we'd lose all of those capabilities and
> instead would have to use a much more muted/weak interface. That doesn't
> make any sense from Sandesha2's point of view because it can't maximize
> the capabilities of the SOAP stack its providing RM for.
>
> Now, if someone wants to provide a layer over Sandesha2 that makes it
> JAX-WS compliant that's fine of course. However, it is not fine IMO to
> make Sandesha2 directly JAX-WS dependent instead of Axis2 dependent
> because then we'd be losing quality not gaining it.
>
> Sanjiva.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: sandesha-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: sandesha-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>

Re: Use of Sandesha in Celtix?

[Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>]

On Fri, 2005-12-02 at 08:57 +0600, Chamikara Jayalath wrote:
> Hi Andrea,
> 
> Many parts of Sandesha2 (e.g. Handlers, Invoker, Sender) have strong
> dependencies on Axis2. So you will have to do some work to get them
> ported. I think this is the same for  Sandesha1. 

Axis2 was carefully designed to allow and support the existence of
components such as Sandesha2 which extend Axis2. As such, Sandesha2 has
to depend on Axis2 concepts in order to do the best possible RM
implementation for Axis2. If we were to have Sandesha2 access Axis2
behind some standard interfaces, we'd lose all of those capabilities and
instead would have to use a much more muted/weak interface. That doesn't
make any sense from Sandesha2's point of view because it can't maximize
the capabilities of the SOAP stack its providing RM for.

Now, if someone wants to provide a layer over Sandesha2 that makes it
JAX-WS compliant that's fine of course. However, it is not fine IMO to
make Sandesha2 directly JAX-WS dependent instead of Axis2 dependent
because then we'd be losing quality not gaining it.

Sanjiva.



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Re: Use of Sandesha in Celtix?

[Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>]

On Fri, 2005-12-02 at 08:57 +0600, Chamikara Jayalath wrote:
> Hi Andrea,
> 
> Many parts of Sandesha2 (e.g. Handlers, Invoker, Sender) have strong
> dependencies on Axis2. So you will have to do some work to get them
> ported. I think this is the same for  Sandesha1. 

Axis2 was carefully designed to allow and support the existence of
components such as Sandesha2 which extend Axis2. As such, Sandesha2 has
to depend on Axis2 concepts in order to do the best possible RM
implementation for Axis2. If we were to have Sandesha2 access Axis2
behind some standard interfaces, we'd lose all of those capabilities and
instead would have to use a much more muted/weak interface. That doesn't
make any sense from Sandesha2's point of view because it can't maximize
the capabilities of the SOAP stack its providing RM for.

Now, if someone wants to provide a layer over Sandesha2 that makes it
JAX-WS compliant that's fine of course. However, it is not fine IMO to
make Sandesha2 directly JAX-WS dependent instead of Axis2 dependent
because then we'd be losing quality not gaining it.

Sanjiva.



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Re: Use of Sandesha in Celtix?

[Chamikara Jayalath <ch...@gmail.com>]

Hi Andrea,

Many parts of Sandesha2 (e.g. Handlers, Invoker, Sender) have strong
dependencies on Axis2. So you will have to do some work to get them ported.
I think this is the same for  Sandesha1.

Thanx,
Chamikara


On 12/2/05, Andrea Smyth <an...@iona.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I have only recently joined the sandesha-dev mailing list and noticed
> that you now support both Axis 1.x and Axis 2.0  (with Sandesha1 and
> Sandesha2 resp).
> Have you been considering to provide the 3 Sandesha handlers
> alternatively as JAX-WS 2.0 handlers?
> Do all components have equally strong dependencies on Axis, e.g. could
> the Storage Framework be used more or less as is while handlers would
> need to be replaced/ported?
> The reason I am asking is that we are considering the use of Sandesha
> for WS-RM support in Celtix - an open source ESB project hosted on
> Objectweb, see http://celtix.objectweb.org/ .
> I'd appreciate any feedback that would help us decide if Sandesha is an
> option for Celtix.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: sandesha-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: sandesha-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>

Re: Use of Sandesha in Celtix?

[Chamikara Jayalath <ch...@gmail.com>]

Hi Andrea,

Many parts of Sandesha2 (e.g. Handlers, Invoker, Sender) have strong
dependencies on Axis2. So you will have to do some work to get them ported.
I think this is the same for  Sandesha1.

Thanx,
Chamikara


On 12/2/05, Andrea Smyth <an...@iona.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I have only recently joined the sandesha-dev mailing list and noticed
> that you now support both Axis 1.x and Axis 2.0  (with Sandesha1 and
> Sandesha2 resp).
> Have you been considering to provide the 3 Sandesha handlers
> alternatively as JAX-WS 2.0 handlers?
> Do all components have equally strong dependencies on Axis, e.g. could
> the Storage Framework be used more or less as is while handlers would
> need to be replaced/ported?
> The reason I am asking is that we are considering the use of Sandesha
> for WS-RM support in Celtix - an open source ESB project hosted on
> Objectweb, see http://celtix.objectweb.org/ .
> I'd appreciate any feedback that would help us decide if Sandesha is an
> option for Celtix.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: sandesha-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: sandesha-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>