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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org> on 2012/09/21 00:33:26 UTC
Github integration
Hey,
What's the deal with Github and CloudStack?
I notice things like this:
https://github.com/CloudStack/hudsonbuild/pull/1
Seems that there is write activity, PRs, etc, going on over there.
Is this stuff mirrored back to the ASF repos, or is it completely separate?
Very curious!
Thanks,
--
NS
Re: Github integration
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>.
Thanks Rohit.
Looks like there may be some useful code in that CloudStack repo, but
that's up for Citrix to decide. Either way, we do need to get this changed,
along with the cloudstack.com website. These are points of brand confusion
for our users at the moment. I wouldn't say this blocks the 4.0 release,
but I would say this needs to be seen to ASAP.
(The ASF mirror is fine of course!)
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Rohit Yadav <ro...@citrix.com> wrote:
> The first one, http://github.com/CloudStack, is the old repo and no
> longer maintained, and may be deprecated?
>
> The second one is a git mirror (I don't know if Apache has configured it
> or Github guys) of the third one.
> github.com/apache mirror all Apache projects, which is an easier place
> for Github users to fork CloudStack.
>
> Hope that helps.
> ________________________________________
> From: Noah Slater [nslater@tumbolia.org]
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 2:47 PM
> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Github integration
>
> Just following up on this.
>
> Could someone explain the difference between:
>
> - http://github.com/CloudStack
> - http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
> - https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-cloudstack.git
>
> Do we really have three repositories?
>
> Are they all writable?
>
> Is any of this documented anywhere?
>
> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hey,
> >
> > What's the deal with Github and CloudStack?
> >
> > I notice things like this:
> >
> > https://github.com/CloudStack/hudsonbuild/pull/1
> >
> >
> > Seems that there is write activity, PRs, etc, going on over there.
> >
> > Is this stuff mirrored back to the ASF repos, or is it completely
> separate?
> >
> > Very curious!
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > --
> > NS
> >
>
>
>
> --
> NS
>
--
NS
RE: Github integration
Posted by Rohit Yadav <ro...@citrix.com>.
The first one, http://github.com/CloudStack, is the old repo and no longer maintained, and may be deprecated?
The second one is a git mirror (I don't know if Apache has configured it or Github guys) of the third one.
github.com/apache mirror all Apache projects, which is an easier place for Github users to fork CloudStack.
Hope that helps.
________________________________________
From: Noah Slater [nslater@tumbolia.org]
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 2:47 PM
To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Github integration
Just following up on this.
Could someone explain the difference between:
- http://github.com/CloudStack
- http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
- https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-cloudstack.git
Do we really have three repositories?
Are they all writable?
Is any of this documented anywhere?
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> Hey,
>
> What's the deal with Github and CloudStack?
>
> I notice things like this:
>
> https://github.com/CloudStack/hudsonbuild/pull/1
>
>
> Seems that there is write activity, PRs, etc, going on over there.
>
> Is this stuff mirrored back to the ASF repos, or is it completely separate?
>
> Very curious!
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> NS
>
--
NS
Re: Github integration
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 5:10 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 20 October 2012 22:17, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>
>> Following up to this thread:
>>
>> > Some ways in which the current CloudStack account on GitHub are
>> problematic:
>> >
>> > - CloudStack is used as the account name, in both the URL and the UI
>>
>> I attempted to solve this with cloudstack-extras - and that thread is
>> still ongoing.
>>
>
> I think if we can nail this, the URL is fine.
>
>
>> > - The account advertises itself as the "CloudStack Project"
>>
>> I changed this to: former home of the CloudStack Project (Now Apache
>> CloudStack (incubating) - which obviously has a typo, and doesn't do
>> a good job explaining what it is.
>> I've changed this a few moments ago to: "Collection of repos that are
>> useful for folks using Apache CloudStack" let me know if you see that
>> as problematic.
>>
>
> Heh. This looks good to me. (Bit long winded though! ;)
>
>
>> > - There is a repository itself called "CloudStack"
>>
>> Yes. So here is the problem (and happy to hear creative ways to solve it.)
>> The entire CloudStack code base did not move to the ASF. In particular
>> we only moved what was, at that time, the most recent version's brand
>> and the master branch were moved. (as per the proposal submitted to
>> the incubator.) However, CloudStack has about 4 years of history prior
>> to that and probably something close to 50 releases. CloudStack, prior
>> to April was GPLv3 licensed. So there is a requirement under the GPL
>> that we make our source code available for those releases; and quite
>> honestly the git repo is the easiest way to do this.
>
>
> How long does this (onerous) requirement apply? Are these active releases?
> How long do we have to keep this stuff around? My preference is that we
> just wipe it. But there may be good reasons to archive it somewhere instead.
>
> I just read the GPL, and it says "you remain obligated to ensure that it is
> available for as long as needed to satisfy these requirements." Man, the
> GPL is a dumb license. So what does this actually mean?
In common usage people assume 3 years because an alternative method of
complying (which we aren' eligible for) is to extend a written offer
(coupon) at time of distribution for the source valid for three years.
CloudStack's last GPL release was in March of 2012 - so theoretically
as late as March 2015.
There are still people who are heavily using version 2.2 and some of
the older 3.0 releases that are GPLv3.
>
>
>> I am open to
>> other alternatives to complying with the legal responsibilities of the
>> GPL, but I am not aware of any) I have made that repo effectively
>> read only (it was acting as a mirror for a Citrix internal repo.
>> In short, I do not see a legal way of jettisoning this repo.
>
>
> There has to be, eventually. And if there has to be a way eventually, the
> question is when. The GPL *cannot possibly mean* that we have to keep this
> repos around in perpetuity. If it meant that, then any software you ever
> release under the GPL would mean that for the *rest of your life* you had
> to host the source code for it.
Yes - in common usage it isn't in perpetuity. Most places see it as 3 years.
>
> Additionally, in the original releases you made under Citrix, did you
> release the source code? Because if you did, then I am not sure this
> applies. I think this only applies if you were making binary releases. i.e.
> this is basically here to make sure that people who downloaded binary
> releases can also download the source code later.
Under Citrix - yes, there should have been a corresponding source
release. Additionally for Cloud.com - releases from ~February 2011 and
later also had corresponding source releases. However, the releases
prior to that likely did not (though honestly I don't know.) but I
think a function of how the releases were made (yum/apt repos where
only the binaries appear to have been made available. I'd go audit
this but sourceforge.net (where our pre-ASF releases were housed)
appears to be down atm.)
>
> I think it is reasonable for us (given the wording of the GPL) to remove
> the old source code as soon as we consider the non-Apache releases to be
> inactive and unsupported.)
>
>
>> But open to alternatives.
>> I have added a disclaimer to the description of the repo that says as
>> follows:
>> DEPRECATED & read-only!! - This repo exists for GPL compliance only.
>> CloudStack development has moved to the ASF - see
>> http://incubator.apache.org/cloudstack
>
>
> That's great.
>
> Perhaps the repos name can change to "cloudstack-old", or
> "cloudstack-archive" or something?
I changed it (and cloudbridge) to cloudstack-archive and
cloudbridge-archive respectively.
>
>
>>
>> > - There is a link to http://cloudstack.org
>>
>> I've removed that link (and the link to the ACS project page) I've
>> added disclaimer that says 'not affiliated with the Apache CloudStack
>> project'
>>
>
> Yep, that's great!
>
>
>> > - The word "CloudStack" is frequently used in repository names
>>
>> This is a nominative use of the word CloudStack IMO. knife-cloudstack
>> is a knife plugin designed to interact with cloudstack.
>> puppet-cloudStack is a puppet module designed to deploy CloudStack,
>> zabbix-cloudstack is a Zabbix module designed to monitor CloudStack.
>> As I said in another email, not every use of the word CloudStack is a
>> trademark violation, and indeed I don't know what we would change it
>> to if it were. knife-that-IaaS-project-at-the-ASF seems a bit
>> pointless.
>>
>
> You're right. I was listing it because it contributed to an *overall*
> confusion. With these other things sorted out, I think these repos names
> are probably fine. The note above about whether we should consider renaming
> the "cloudstack" one is sort of the only one that concerns me at this point
>
>
>> > - There isn't a single mention of Apache anywhere on the page
>>
>> There is now a mention of apache there, but it disclaims any involvement.
>>
>
> That's great!
>
>
>> What else needs to happen wrt this github account?
>>
>
> Let's wrap up discussion on this thread and then I think we'll be done.
>
> --
> NS
Re: Github integration
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
On 20 October 2012 22:17, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> Following up to this thread:
>
> > Some ways in which the current CloudStack account on GitHub are
> problematic:
> >
> > - CloudStack is used as the account name, in both the URL and the UI
>
> I attempted to solve this with cloudstack-extras - and that thread is
> still ongoing.
>
I think if we can nail this, the URL is fine.
> > - The account advertises itself as the "CloudStack Project"
>
> I changed this to: former home of the CloudStack Project (Now Apache
> CloudStack (incubating) - which obviously has a typo, and doesn't do
> a good job explaining what it is.
> I've changed this a few moments ago to: "Collection of repos that are
> useful for folks using Apache CloudStack" let me know if you see that
> as problematic.
>
Heh. This looks good to me. (Bit long winded though! ;)
> > - There is a repository itself called "CloudStack"
>
> Yes. So here is the problem (and happy to hear creative ways to solve it.)
> The entire CloudStack code base did not move to the ASF. In particular
> we only moved what was, at that time, the most recent version's brand
> and the master branch were moved. (as per the proposal submitted to
> the incubator.) However, CloudStack has about 4 years of history prior
> to that and probably something close to 50 releases. CloudStack, prior
> to April was GPLv3 licensed. So there is a requirement under the GPL
> that we make our source code available for those releases; and quite
> honestly the git repo is the easiest way to do this.
How long does this (onerous) requirement apply? Are these active releases?
How long do we have to keep this stuff around? My preference is that we
just wipe it. But there may be good reasons to archive it somewhere instead.
I just read the GPL, and it says "you remain obligated to ensure that it is
available for as long as needed to satisfy these requirements." Man, the
GPL is a dumb license. So what does this actually mean?
> I am open to
> other alternatives to complying with the legal responsibilities of the
> GPL, but I am not aware of any) I have made that repo effectively
> read only (it was acting as a mirror for a Citrix internal repo.
> In short, I do not see a legal way of jettisoning this repo.
There has to be, eventually. And if there has to be a way eventually, the
question is when. The GPL *cannot possibly mean* that we have to keep this
repos around in perpetuity. If it meant that, then any software you ever
release under the GPL would mean that for the *rest of your life* you had
to host the source code for it.
Additionally, in the original releases you made under Citrix, did you
release the source code? Because if you did, then I am not sure this
applies. I think this only applies if you were making binary releases. i.e.
this is basically here to make sure that people who downloaded binary
releases can also download the source code later.
I think it is reasonable for us (given the wording of the GPL) to remove
the old source code as soon as we consider the non-Apache releases to be
inactive and unsupported.)
> But open to alternatives.
> I have added a disclaimer to the description of the repo that says as
> follows:
> DEPRECATED & read-only!! - This repo exists for GPL compliance only.
> CloudStack development has moved to the ASF - see
> http://incubator.apache.org/cloudstack
That's great.
Perhaps the repos name can change to "cloudstack-old", or
"cloudstack-archive" or something?
>
> > - There is a link to http://cloudstack.org
>
> I've removed that link (and the link to the ACS project page) I've
> added disclaimer that says 'not affiliated with the Apache CloudStack
> project'
>
Yep, that's great!
> > - The word "CloudStack" is frequently used in repository names
>
> This is a nominative use of the word CloudStack IMO. knife-cloudstack
> is a knife plugin designed to interact with cloudstack.
> puppet-cloudStack is a puppet module designed to deploy CloudStack,
> zabbix-cloudstack is a Zabbix module designed to monitor CloudStack.
> As I said in another email, not every use of the word CloudStack is a
> trademark violation, and indeed I don't know what we would change it
> to if it were. knife-that-IaaS-project-at-the-ASF seems a bit
> pointless.
>
You're right. I was listing it because it contributed to an *overall*
confusion. With these other things sorted out, I think these repos names
are probably fine. The note above about whether we should consider renaming
the "cloudstack" one is sort of the only one that concerns me at this point.
> > - There isn't a single mention of Apache anywhere on the page
>
> There is now a mention of apache there, but it disclaims any involvement.
>
That's great!
> What else needs to happen wrt this github account?
>
Let's wrap up discussion on this thread and then I think we'll be done.
--
NS
Re: Github integration
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
Following up to this thread:
> Some ways in which the current CloudStack account on GitHub are problematic:
>
> - CloudStack is used as the account name, in both the URL and the UI
I attempted to solve this with cloudstack-extras - and that thread is
still ongoing.
> - The account advertises itself as the "CloudStack Project"
I changed this to: former home of the CloudStack Project (Now Apache
CloudStack (incubating) - which obviously has a typo, and doesn't do
a good job explaining what it is.
I've changed this a few moments ago to: "Collection of repos that are
useful for folks using Apache CloudStack" let me know if you see that
as problematic.
> - There is a repository itself called "CloudStack"
Yes. So here is the problem (and happy to hear creative ways to solve it.)
The entire CloudStack code base did not move to the ASF. In particular
we only moved what was, at that time, the most recent version's brand
and the master branch were moved. (as per the proposal submitted to
the incubator.) However, CloudStack has about 4 years of history prior
to that and probably something close to 50 releases. CloudStack, prior
to April was GPLv3 licensed. So there is a requirement under the GPL
that we make our source code available for those releases; and quite
honestly the git repo is the easiest way to do this. I am open to
other alternatives to complying with the legal responsibilities of the
GPL, but I am not aware of any) I have made that repo effectively
read only (it was acting as a mirror for a Citrix internal repo.
In short, I do not see a legal way of jettisoning this repo. But open
to alternatives.
I have added a disclaimer to the description of the repo that says as follows:
DEPRECATED & read-only!! - This repo exists for GPL compliance only.
CloudStack development has moved to the ASF - see
http://incubator.apache.org/cloudstack
> - There is a link to http://cloudstack.org
I've removed that link (and the link to the ACS project page) I've
added disclaimer that says 'not affiliated with the Apache CloudStack
project'
> - The word "CloudStack" is frequently used in repository names
This is a nominative use of the word CloudStack IMO. knife-cloudstack
is a knife plugin designed to interact with cloudstack.
puppet-cloudStack is a puppet module designed to deploy CloudStack,
zabbix-cloudstack is a Zabbix module designed to monitor CloudStack.
As I said in another email, not every use of the word CloudStack is a
trademark violation, and indeed I don't know what we would change it
to if it were. knife-that-IaaS-project-at-the-ASF seems a bit
pointless.
> - There isn't a single mention of Apache anywhere on the page
There is now a mention of apache there, but it disclaims any involvement.
What else needs to happen wrt this github account?
--David
Re: Github integration
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>.
I'm not aware of any debate to be had. As CloudStack will be a trademark of
the foundation, it needs to be used responsibly by third parties. The
policy outlines the most common case to take into consideration. Any other
questions can be taken to the trademarks@ list.
If another very similar project came along, and they decided to call
themselves "CloudStack" and they set up a project page on GitHub, then this
would be an obvious problem. And we would reach out to them and we would
ask them to change their name.
And if someone comes along to provide 3rd party services that compliment
CloudStack we will ask them to use our mark responsibly. That is, to make
it clear that "Apache CloudStack" and "CloudStack" are trademarks, and that
they are not affiliated with the foundation.
Obviously, this is not the case. We're talking about cleaning up the
original project pages. But the reasons for doing so are the same.
These concerns apply to the Citrix repository as much as any other
organisation.
On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Donal Lafferty
<do...@citrix.com>wrote:
> Hi Noah,
>
> I'm not the guy to ask about shifting the Citrix CloudPlatform repo to a
> new URL. However, everyone will be eager to find a bright line solution
> that avoids a debate over the scope of Apache's trademarks!
>
> With that in mind, can someone else help address these points?
>
> Cheers,
>
> DL
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Noah Slater [mailto:nslater@tumbolia.org]
> > Sent: 29 September 2012 17:28
> > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Github integration
> >
> > Apache, Apache CloudStack, and CloudStack are all trademarks of the
> Apache
> > Software Foundation. (Or they will be once CloudStack graduates.)
> Therefor,
> > we have to be careful about using them. And third parties have to be
> careful
> > about using them. Third parties should not cause any confusion about
> what is
> > and what isn't a part of the Apache CloudStack project.
> >
> > You can read more our policy here:
> >
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
> >
> > The point I want to make, however, is that it's a little more than just
> some
> > virtual paths in a Git repos here.
> >
> > Some ways in which the current CloudStack account on GitHub are
> > problematic:
> >
> > - CloudStack is used as the account name, in both the URL and the UI
> > - The account advertises itself as the "CloudStack Project"
> > - There is a repository itself called "CloudStack"
> > - There is a link to http://cloudstack.org
> > - The word "CloudStack" is frequently used in repository names
> > - There isn't a single mention of Apache anywhere on the page
> >
> > Now, admittedly, all of these things exist because this account used to
> be the
> > home of CloudStack. It is not as if someone has come along after the
> fact,
> > and is now using our name irresponsibly. But they still present an issue,
> > because there is significant scope for confusion here.
> >
> > I am assuming there are already plans in place to retire the original
> repository
> > as part of the move to Apache. This should, of course, include a
> rebranding,
> > and a reworking of this GitHub account. Do you know what the timeline is
> for
> > that?
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Donal Lafferty
> > <do...@citrix.com>wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Noah,
> > >
> > > You raise an interesting point about trademarks. Are virtual paths in
> > > github repos considered a mark of authenticity? If we go by mere name
> > > matching, I see a possibility . However, Apache itself establishes a
> > > different mark of authenticity by placing 'apache' at the root of
> > > their virtual path. AFAIK, UK courts expect the average consumer to
> > > be able to grasp these subtleties. I expect this is because they
> > > don't like impediments to commerce. Also, they'll have to take a
> > > narrow view of trademark to avoid overlapping claims from github
> itself.
> > >
> > > WRT emails for all GIT pulls, wouldn't broadcasting pull requests
> > > clutter the dev mailing list?
> > >
> > > DL
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Noah Slater [mailto:nslater@tumbolia.org]
> > > > Sent: 29 September 2012 15:27
> > > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Github integration
> > > >
> > > > The CloudStack account on Github needs to be cleaned up then.
> > > > Perhaps rename it so that it is clear the account is operated by
> > > > Citrix. At the
> > > moment,
> > > > it looks like a canonical source for Apache CloudStack. Obviously,
> > > > this
> > > isn't
> > > > okay. "CloudStack" is (or will be) a trademark of the ASF, and needs
> > > > to
> > > be
> > > > used appropriately.
> > > >
> > > > Additionally, the README.md in the CloudStack repository should
> > > > probably be updated to outline a pull request workflow for GitHub
> > > > users. I presume that pull requests on GitHub send a mail to the
> > > > mailing list? If not, I
> > > can help
> > > > to get that set up.
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Donal Lafferty
> > > > <do...@citrix.com>wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Non-authoritative answer:
> > > > >
> > > > > ASF repo:
> > > > > https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-cloudstack.git
> > > > > ASF mirror: http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
> > > > >
> > > > > Citrix repo: http://github.com/CloudStack (pre ASF and forks for
> > > > > customer
> > > > > support)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The wiki and Apache CMS sites should reference ASF repo. First
> > > > > priority was to move information to the Apache wiki, so not all
> > > > > pages may yet be updated.
> > > > >
> > > > > DL
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Noah Slater [mailto:nslater@tumbolia.org]
> > > > > > Sent: 29 September 2012 10:18
> > > > > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Github integration
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just following up on this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Could someone explain the difference between:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - http://github.com/CloudStack
> > > > > > - http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
> > > > > > -
> > > > > > https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-cloudstack.git
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do we really have three repositories?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are they all writable?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is any of this documented anywhere?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Noah Slater
> > > > > > <ns...@tumbolia.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What's the deal with Github and CloudStack?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I notice things like this:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://github.com/CloudStack/hudsonbuild/pull/1
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Seems that there is write activity, PRs, etc, going on over
> there.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is this stuff mirrored back to the ASF repos, or is it
> > > > > > > completely
> > > > > separate?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Very curious!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > NS
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > NS
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > NS
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > NS
>
--
NS
RE: Github integration
Posted by Donal Lafferty <do...@citrix.com>.
Hi Noah,
I'm not the guy to ask about shifting the Citrix CloudPlatform repo to a new URL. However, everyone will be eager to find a bright line solution that avoids a debate over the scope of Apache's trademarks!
With that in mind, can someone else help address these points?
Cheers,
DL
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noah Slater [mailto:nslater@tumbolia.org]
> Sent: 29 September 2012 17:28
> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Github integration
>
> Apache, Apache CloudStack, and CloudStack are all trademarks of the Apache
> Software Foundation. (Or they will be once CloudStack graduates.) Therefor,
> we have to be careful about using them. And third parties have to be careful
> about using them. Third parties should not cause any confusion about what is
> and what isn't a part of the Apache CloudStack project.
>
> You can read more our policy here:
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
>
> The point I want to make, however, is that it's a little more than just some
> virtual paths in a Git repos here.
>
> Some ways in which the current CloudStack account on GitHub are
> problematic:
>
> - CloudStack is used as the account name, in both the URL and the UI
> - The account advertises itself as the "CloudStack Project"
> - There is a repository itself called "CloudStack"
> - There is a link to http://cloudstack.org
> - The word "CloudStack" is frequently used in repository names
> - There isn't a single mention of Apache anywhere on the page
>
> Now, admittedly, all of these things exist because this account used to be the
> home of CloudStack. It is not as if someone has come along after the fact,
> and is now using our name irresponsibly. But they still present an issue,
> because there is significant scope for confusion here.
>
> I am assuming there are already plans in place to retire the original repository
> as part of the move to Apache. This should, of course, include a rebranding,
> and a reworking of this GitHub account. Do you know what the timeline is for
> that?
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Donal Lafferty
> <do...@citrix.com>wrote:
>
> > Hi Noah,
> >
> > You raise an interesting point about trademarks. Are virtual paths in
> > github repos considered a mark of authenticity? If we go by mere name
> > matching, I see a possibility . However, Apache itself establishes a
> > different mark of authenticity by placing 'apache' at the root of
> > their virtual path. AFAIK, UK courts expect the average consumer to
> > be able to grasp these subtleties. I expect this is because they
> > don't like impediments to commerce. Also, they'll have to take a
> > narrow view of trademark to avoid overlapping claims from github itself.
> >
> > WRT emails for all GIT pulls, wouldn't broadcasting pull requests
> > clutter the dev mailing list?
> >
> > DL
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Noah Slater [mailto:nslater@tumbolia.org]
> > > Sent: 29 September 2012 15:27
> > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Github integration
> > >
> > > The CloudStack account on Github needs to be cleaned up then.
> > > Perhaps rename it so that it is clear the account is operated by
> > > Citrix. At the
> > moment,
> > > it looks like a canonical source for Apache CloudStack. Obviously,
> > > this
> > isn't
> > > okay. "CloudStack" is (or will be) a trademark of the ASF, and needs
> > > to
> > be
> > > used appropriately.
> > >
> > > Additionally, the README.md in the CloudStack repository should
> > > probably be updated to outline a pull request workflow for GitHub
> > > users. I presume that pull requests on GitHub send a mail to the
> > > mailing list? If not, I
> > can help
> > > to get that set up.
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Donal Lafferty
> > > <do...@citrix.com>wrote:
> > >
> > > > Non-authoritative answer:
> > > >
> > > > ASF repo:
> > > > https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-cloudstack.git
> > > > ASF mirror: http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
> > > >
> > > > Citrix repo: http://github.com/CloudStack (pre ASF and forks for
> > > > customer
> > > > support)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The wiki and Apache CMS sites should reference ASF repo. First
> > > > priority was to move information to the Apache wiki, so not all
> > > > pages may yet be updated.
> > > >
> > > > DL
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Noah Slater [mailto:nslater@tumbolia.org]
> > > > > Sent: 29 September 2012 10:18
> > > > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: Github integration
> > > > >
> > > > > Just following up on this.
> > > > >
> > > > > Could someone explain the difference between:
> > > > >
> > > > > - http://github.com/CloudStack
> > > > > - http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
> > > > > -
> > > > > https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-cloudstack.git
> > > > >
> > > > > Do we really have three repositories?
> > > > >
> > > > > Are they all writable?
> > > > >
> > > > > Is any of this documented anywhere?
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Noah Slater
> > > > > <ns...@tumbolia.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hey,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What's the deal with Github and CloudStack?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I notice things like this:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://github.com/CloudStack/hudsonbuild/pull/1
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Seems that there is write activity, PRs, etc, going on over there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is this stuff mirrored back to the ASF repos, or is it
> > > > > > completely
> > > > separate?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Very curious!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > NS
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > NS
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > NS
> >
>
>
>
> --
> NS
Re: Github integration
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>.
Apache, Apache CloudStack, and CloudStack are all trademarks of the Apache
Software Foundation. (Or they will be once CloudStack graduates.) Therefor,
we have to be careful about using them. And third parties have to be
careful about using them. Third parties should not cause any confusion
about what is and what isn't a part of the Apache CloudStack project.
You can read more our policy here:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
The point I want to make, however, is that it's a little more than just
some virtual paths in a Git repos here.
Some ways in which the current CloudStack account on GitHub are problematic:
- CloudStack is used as the account name, in both the URL and the UI
- The account advertises itself as the "CloudStack Project"
- There is a repository itself called "CloudStack"
- There is a link to http://cloudstack.org
- The word "CloudStack" is frequently used in repository names
- There isn't a single mention of Apache anywhere on the page
Now, admittedly, all of these things exist because this account used to be
the home of CloudStack. It is not as if someone has come along after the
fact, and is now using our name irresponsibly. But they still present an
issue, because there is significant scope for confusion here.
I am assuming there are already plans in place to retire the original
repository as part of the move to Apache. This should, of course, include a
rebranding, and a reworking of this GitHub account. Do you know what the
timeline is for that?
On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Donal Lafferty
<do...@citrix.com>wrote:
> Hi Noah,
>
> You raise an interesting point about trademarks. Are virtual paths in
> github repos considered a mark of authenticity? If we go by mere name
> matching, I see a possibility . However, Apache itself establishes a
> different mark of authenticity by placing 'apache' at the root of their
> virtual path. AFAIK, UK courts expect the average consumer to be able to
> grasp these subtleties. I expect this is because they don't like
> impediments to commerce. Also, they'll have to take a narrow view of
> trademark to avoid overlapping claims from github itself.
>
> WRT emails for all GIT pulls, wouldn't broadcasting pull requests clutter
> the dev mailing list?
>
> DL
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Noah Slater [mailto:nslater@tumbolia.org]
> > Sent: 29 September 2012 15:27
> > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Github integration
> >
> > The CloudStack account on Github needs to be cleaned up then. Perhaps
> > rename it so that it is clear the account is operated by Citrix. At the
> moment,
> > it looks like a canonical source for Apache CloudStack. Obviously, this
> isn't
> > okay. "CloudStack" is (or will be) a trademark of the ASF, and needs to
> be
> > used appropriately.
> >
> > Additionally, the README.md in the CloudStack repository should probably
> > be updated to outline a pull request workflow for GitHub users. I presume
> > that pull requests on GitHub send a mail to the mailing list? If not, I
> can help
> > to get that set up.
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Donal Lafferty
> > <do...@citrix.com>wrote:
> >
> > > Non-authoritative answer:
> > >
> > > ASF repo:
> > > https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-cloudstack.git
> > > ASF mirror: http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
> > >
> > > Citrix repo: http://github.com/CloudStack (pre ASF and forks for
> > > customer
> > > support)
> > >
> > >
> > > The wiki and Apache CMS sites should reference ASF repo. First
> > > priority was to move information to the Apache wiki, so not all pages
> > > may yet be updated.
> > >
> > > DL
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Noah Slater [mailto:nslater@tumbolia.org]
> > > > Sent: 29 September 2012 10:18
> > > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Github integration
> > > >
> > > > Just following up on this.
> > > >
> > > > Could someone explain the difference between:
> > > >
> > > > - http://github.com/CloudStack
> > > > - http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
> > > > -
> > > > https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-cloudstack.git
> > > >
> > > > Do we really have three repositories?
> > > >
> > > > Are they all writable?
> > > >
> > > > Is any of this documented anywhere?
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hey,
> > > > >
> > > > > What's the deal with Github and CloudStack?
> > > > >
> > > > > I notice things like this:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://github.com/CloudStack/hudsonbuild/pull/1
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Seems that there is write activity, PRs, etc, going on over there.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is this stuff mirrored back to the ASF repos, or is it completely
> > > separate?
> > > > >
> > > > > Very curious!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > NS
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > NS
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > NS
>
--
NS
RE: Github integration
Posted by Donal Lafferty <do...@citrix.com>.
Hi Noah,
You raise an interesting point about trademarks. Are virtual paths in github repos considered a mark of authenticity? If we go by mere name matching, I see a possibility . However, Apache itself establishes a different mark of authenticity by placing 'apache' at the root of their virtual path. AFAIK, UK courts expect the average consumer to be able to grasp these subtleties. I expect this is because they don't like impediments to commerce. Also, they'll have to take a narrow view of trademark to avoid overlapping claims from github itself.
WRT emails for all GIT pulls, wouldn't broadcasting pull requests clutter the dev mailing list?
DL
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noah Slater [mailto:nslater@tumbolia.org]
> Sent: 29 September 2012 15:27
> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Github integration
>
> The CloudStack account on Github needs to be cleaned up then. Perhaps
> rename it so that it is clear the account is operated by Citrix. At the moment,
> it looks like a canonical source for Apache CloudStack. Obviously, this isn't
> okay. "CloudStack" is (or will be) a trademark of the ASF, and needs to be
> used appropriately.
>
> Additionally, the README.md in the CloudStack repository should probably
> be updated to outline a pull request workflow for GitHub users. I presume
> that pull requests on GitHub send a mail to the mailing list? If not, I can help
> to get that set up.
>
> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Donal Lafferty
> <do...@citrix.com>wrote:
>
> > Non-authoritative answer:
> >
> > ASF repo:
> > https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-cloudstack.git
> > ASF mirror: http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
> >
> > Citrix repo: http://github.com/CloudStack (pre ASF and forks for
> > customer
> > support)
> >
> >
> > The wiki and Apache CMS sites should reference ASF repo. First
> > priority was to move information to the Apache wiki, so not all pages
> > may yet be updated.
> >
> > DL
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Noah Slater [mailto:nslater@tumbolia.org]
> > > Sent: 29 September 2012 10:18
> > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Github integration
> > >
> > > Just following up on this.
> > >
> > > Could someone explain the difference between:
> > >
> > > - http://github.com/CloudStack
> > > - http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
> > > -
> > > https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-cloudstack.git
> > >
> > > Do we really have three repositories?
> > >
> > > Are they all writable?
> > >
> > > Is any of this documented anywhere?
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hey,
> > > >
> > > > What's the deal with Github and CloudStack?
> > > >
> > > > I notice things like this:
> > > >
> > > > https://github.com/CloudStack/hudsonbuild/pull/1
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Seems that there is write activity, PRs, etc, going on over there.
> > > >
> > > > Is this stuff mirrored back to the ASF repos, or is it completely
> > separate?
> > > >
> > > > Very curious!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > NS
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > NS
> >
>
>
>
> --
> NS
Re: Github integration
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>.
The CloudStack account on Github needs to be cleaned up then. Perhaps
rename it so that it is clear the account is operated by Citrix. At the
moment, it looks like a canonical source for Apache CloudStack. Obviously,
this isn't okay. "CloudStack" is (or will be) a trademark of the ASF, and
needs to be used appropriately.
Additionally, the README.md in the CloudStack repository should probably be
updated to outline a pull request workflow for GitHub users. I presume that
pull requests on GitHub send a mail to the mailing list? If not, I can help
to get that set up.
On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Donal Lafferty
<do...@citrix.com>wrote:
> Non-authoritative answer:
>
> ASF repo:
> https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-cloudstack.git
> ASF mirror: http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
>
> Citrix repo: http://github.com/CloudStack (pre ASF and forks for customer
> support)
>
>
> The wiki and Apache CMS sites should reference ASF repo. First priority
> was to move information to the Apache wiki, so not all pages may yet be
> updated.
>
> DL
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Noah Slater [mailto:nslater@tumbolia.org]
> > Sent: 29 September 2012 10:18
> > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Github integration
> >
> > Just following up on this.
> >
> > Could someone explain the difference between:
> >
> > - http://github.com/CloudStack
> > - http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
> > - https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-cloudstack.git
> >
> > Do we really have three repositories?
> >
> > Are they all writable?
> >
> > Is any of this documented anywhere?
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hey,
> > >
> > > What's the deal with Github and CloudStack?
> > >
> > > I notice things like this:
> > >
> > > https://github.com/CloudStack/hudsonbuild/pull/1
> > >
> > >
> > > Seems that there is write activity, PRs, etc, going on over there.
> > >
> > > Is this stuff mirrored back to the ASF repos, or is it completely
> separate?
> > >
> > > Very curious!
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > --
> > > NS
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > NS
>
--
NS
RE: Github integration
Posted by Donal Lafferty <do...@citrix.com>.
Non-authoritative answer:
ASF repo: https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-cloudstack.git
ASF mirror: http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
Citrix repo: http://github.com/CloudStack (pre ASF and forks for customer support)
The wiki and Apache CMS sites should reference ASF repo. First priority was to move information to the Apache wiki, so not all pages may yet be updated.
DL
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noah Slater [mailto:nslater@tumbolia.org]
> Sent: 29 September 2012 10:18
> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Github integration
>
> Just following up on this.
>
> Could someone explain the difference between:
>
> - http://github.com/CloudStack
> - http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
> - https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-cloudstack.git
>
> Do we really have three repositories?
>
> Are they all writable?
>
> Is any of this documented anywhere?
>
> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
>
> > Hey,
> >
> > What's the deal with Github and CloudStack?
> >
> > I notice things like this:
> >
> > https://github.com/CloudStack/hudsonbuild/pull/1
> >
> >
> > Seems that there is write activity, PRs, etc, going on over there.
> >
> > Is this stuff mirrored back to the ASF repos, or is it completely separate?
> >
> > Very curious!
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > --
> > NS
> >
>
>
>
> --
> NS
Re: Github integration
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org>.
Just following up on this.
Could someone explain the difference between:
- http://github.com/CloudStack
- http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
- https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-cloudstack.git
Do we really have three repositories?
Are they all writable?
Is any of this documented anywhere?
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> Hey,
>
> What's the deal with Github and CloudStack?
>
> I notice things like this:
>
> https://github.com/CloudStack/hudsonbuild/pull/1
>
>
> Seems that there is write activity, PRs, etc, going on over there.
>
> Is this stuff mirrored back to the ASF repos, or is it completely separate?
>
> Very curious!
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> NS
>
--
NS