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Posted to dev@community.apache.org by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> on 2022/12/01 14:12:44 UTC
[Proposal] ASF Fediverse/ActivityPub instance
TL;DR: given a set of moderation guidelines and volunteers to
administer them, I'm willing to set up and host an ASF
Fediverse/ActivityPub instance on fly.io.
- - -
Technical background:
While Mastodon is the most common and known implementation, there are
plenty of others at various stages of development. Most with
instructions that can be followed in an afternoon to set up an
instance. Costs to run an instance vary, but I am seeing many reports
that people are finding that they can host their own server on a free
tier at various cloud service providers.
I'm willing to volunteer for all of the above. These days I work for
ly.io, and can host it for free. I'm not asking for anything in
return - while I don't think it would be a good idea to make it a
secret where the instance is hosted, no official recognition is
required.
I'll work with the infrastructure team so that an
<something>.apache.org name will be the way to access it, and to
ensure that I am not the only one with access to the VM.
My default assumption is mastodon is the software to be used, but I
can be convinced to install another service instead.
Now let's examine the worst case scenario: this service is wildly
successful (a good problem to have) and I get hit by a bus, and the
ASF infra team doesn't want to touch this service. My best guess is
that this would cost hundreds of US dollars per year and need
volunteers to run it. the former could be routinely handled as a part
of the ASF budget process (presumably either M&P or Comdev), and I'm
optimistic that we can find plenty of volunteers here.
---
Moderation background:
I have no experience in this, but from postings I see people hosting
mastodon images moderation can be time consuming. I am NOT signing up
for this part, hence I'm making a call for volunteers. Apparently the
internet is full of trolls, and not moderating your instance can get
the entire instance banned by other instances.
For now, I chose to participate at https://ruby.social/@samruby ; you
can find more information about that instance here:
https://ruby.social/about . We will need a code of conduct, a privacy
policy, server rules etc. Note the list of moderated servers at the
end, it is likely that we will end up with our own list, and this list
will accrue over time based on posts that don't match our
expectations, and thus will require moderators.
---
I don't have a time schedule in mind, but if there are volunteers this
could all come together in a matter of days, and certainly could be up
and running this month, and probably early this month.
- Sam Ruby
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Re: [Proposal] ASF Fediverse/ActivityPub instance
Posted by "sblackmon@apache.org" <sb...@apache.org>.
I will help with community management, software administration, however else I can assist I’m open to.
Steve Blackmon, PMC Chair Apache Streams
On Dec 1, 2022, 8:51 PM -0600, Matt Sicker <ma...@musigma.org>, wrote:
> I could help with modding as long as I’m not the only one :)
>
> —
> Matt Sicker
>
> > On Dec 1, 2022, at 08:13, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> >
> > TL;DR: given a set of moderation guidelines and volunteers to
> > administer them, I'm willing to set up and host an ASF
> > Fediverse/ActivityPub instance on fly.io.
> >
> > - - -
> >
> > Technical background:
> >
> > While Mastodon is the most common and known implementation, there are
> > plenty of others at various stages of development. Most with
> > instructions that can be followed in an afternoon to set up an
> > instance. Costs to run an instance vary, but I am seeing many reports
> > that people are finding that they can host their own server on a free
> > tier at various cloud service providers.
> >
> > I'm willing to volunteer for all of the above. These days I work for
> > ly.io, and can host it for free. I'm not asking for anything in
> > return - while I don't think it would be a good idea to make it a
> > secret where the instance is hosted, no official recognition is
> > required.
> >
> > I'll work with the infrastructure team so that an
> > <something>.apache.org name will be the way to access it, and to
> > ensure that I am not the only one with access to the VM.
> >
> > My default assumption is mastodon is the software to be used, but I
> > can be convinced to install another service instead.
> >
> > Now let's examine the worst case scenario: this service is wildly
> > successful (a good problem to have) and I get hit by a bus, and the
> > ASF infra team doesn't want to touch this service. My best guess is
> > that this would cost hundreds of US dollars per year and need
> > volunteers to run it. the former could be routinely handled as a part
> > of the ASF budget process (presumably either M&P or Comdev), and I'm
> > optimistic that we can find plenty of volunteers here.
> >
> > ---
> >
> > Moderation background:
> >
> > I have no experience in this, but from postings I see people hosting
> > mastodon images moderation can be time consuming. I am NOT signing up
> > for this part, hence I'm making a call for volunteers. Apparently the
> > internet is full of trolls, and not moderating your instance can get
> > the entire instance banned by other instances.
> >
> > For now, I chose to participate at https://ruby.social/@samruby ; you
> > can find more information about that instance here:
> > https://ruby.social/about . We will need a code of conduct, a privacy
> > policy, server rules etc. Note the list of moderated servers at the
> > end, it is likely that we will end up with our own list, and this list
> > will accrue over time based on posts that don't match our
> > expectations, and thus will require moderators.
> >
> > ---
> >
> > I don't have a time schedule in mind, but if there are volunteers this
> > could all come together in a matter of days, and certainly could be up
> > and running this month, and probably early this month.
> >
> > - Sam Ruby
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
Re: [Proposal] ASF Fediverse/ActivityPub instance
Posted by Matt Sicker <ma...@musigma.org>.
I could help with modding as long as I’m not the only one :)
—
Matt Sicker
> On Dec 1, 2022, at 08:13, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>
> TL;DR: given a set of moderation guidelines and volunteers to
> administer them, I'm willing to set up and host an ASF
> Fediverse/ActivityPub instance on fly.io.
>
> - - -
>
> Technical background:
>
> While Mastodon is the most common and known implementation, there are
> plenty of others at various stages of development. Most with
> instructions that can be followed in an afternoon to set up an
> instance. Costs to run an instance vary, but I am seeing many reports
> that people are finding that they can host their own server on a free
> tier at various cloud service providers.
>
> I'm willing to volunteer for all of the above. These days I work for
> ly.io, and can host it for free. I'm not asking for anything in
> return - while I don't think it would be a good idea to make it a
> secret where the instance is hosted, no official recognition is
> required.
>
> I'll work with the infrastructure team so that an
> <something>.apache.org name will be the way to access it, and to
> ensure that I am not the only one with access to the VM.
>
> My default assumption is mastodon is the software to be used, but I
> can be convinced to install another service instead.
>
> Now let's examine the worst case scenario: this service is wildly
> successful (a good problem to have) and I get hit by a bus, and the
> ASF infra team doesn't want to touch this service. My best guess is
> that this would cost hundreds of US dollars per year and need
> volunteers to run it. the former could be routinely handled as a part
> of the ASF budget process (presumably either M&P or Comdev), and I'm
> optimistic that we can find plenty of volunteers here.
>
> ---
>
> Moderation background:
>
> I have no experience in this, but from postings I see people hosting
> mastodon images moderation can be time consuming. I am NOT signing up
> for this part, hence I'm making a call for volunteers. Apparently the
> internet is full of trolls, and not moderating your instance can get
> the entire instance banned by other instances.
>
> For now, I chose to participate at https://ruby.social/@samruby ; you
> can find more information about that instance here:
> https://ruby.social/about . We will need a code of conduct, a privacy
> policy, server rules etc. Note the list of moderated servers at the
> end, it is likely that we will end up with our own list, and this list
> will accrue over time based on posts that don't match our
> expectations, and thus will require moderators.
>
> ---
>
> I don't have a time schedule in mind, but if there are volunteers this
> could all come together in a matter of days, and certainly could be up
> and running this month, and probably early this month.
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Proposal] ASF Fediverse/ActivityPub instance
Posted by Lè Mañs <hu...@gmail.com>.
Ok
On Thu, Dec 8, 2022, 9:53 PM Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> > On Dec 8, 2022, at 6:44 PM, Greg Stein <gs...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > On 2022/12/08 20:30:02 Christian Grobmeier wrote:
> >> ...
> >> Bu t I mentioned, I get your point. Would you be less concerned with a
> domain like asf.social, since this is not an official domain? Assuming
> asf.social would be only for ASF community, but also allow "offical"
> accounts like press@asf.social?
> >
> > By definition, asf.social is an official domain. ... If it is not, then
> it is a trademark violation. One might argue the violation (good luck), but
> isn't the GOAL to have an official domain to establish a trust level?
> >
> > Trademarks, but more specifically Branding: has stated that the ASF will
> not "grow" new domains, and that apache.org should be used. Simply to use
> "asf.social" would require a clear exception grant from Branding.
> >
> > Next: each hostname/service under apache.org must be owned by an
> Officer of the Foundation. It was unclear for many years for many years who
> owned www.apache.org and the announce@apache.org mailing list. The
> Foundation decided that is our public face, our public messaging, and
> should (thus) be owned by the VP Marketing & Publicity. M&P also owns our
> Twitter account and YouTube channel. By similar reasoning, M&P would own
> how an official hostname used for Mastodon would be portrayed to the
> general public; especially if it would become official messaging channel(s)
> for the Foundation.
> >
> > Note: individual TLPs create their own accounts on third party services,
> such as Twitter and Facebook, without consultation with M&P. That is a bit
> different from constructing an official [Mastodon] namespace for the
> Foundation. Who owns *that* namespace? (IMO: M&P)
> >
> > Should such an official hostname be desired, an Officer Owner will be
> required. That is likely best discussed internally, but ENOCARE, really.
>
> I agree with Greg’s statement above because that’s how it works.
>
> Best,
> Dave
>
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -g
> >
> > ps. not speaking for Infra; just explaining how ownership of
> host/service $foo works at the ASF
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
>
Re: [Proposal] ASF Fediverse/ActivityPub instance
Posted by Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net>.
> On Dec 8, 2022, at 6:44 PM, Greg Stein <gs...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 2022/12/08 20:30:02 Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>> ...
>> Bu t I mentioned, I get your point. Would you be less concerned with a domain like asf.social, since this is not an official domain? Assuming asf.social would be only for ASF community, but also allow "offical" accounts like press@asf.social?
>
> By definition, asf.social is an official domain. ... If it is not, then it is a trademark violation. One might argue the violation (good luck), but isn't the GOAL to have an official domain to establish a trust level?
>
> Trademarks, but more specifically Branding: has stated that the ASF will not "grow" new domains, and that apache.org should be used. Simply to use "asf.social" would require a clear exception grant from Branding.
>
> Next: each hostname/service under apache.org must be owned by an Officer of the Foundation. It was unclear for many years for many years who owned www.apache.org and the announce@apache.org mailing list. The Foundation decided that is our public face, our public messaging, and should (thus) be owned by the VP Marketing & Publicity. M&P also owns our Twitter account and YouTube channel. By similar reasoning, M&P would own how an official hostname used for Mastodon would be portrayed to the general public; especially if it would become official messaging channel(s) for the Foundation.
>
> Note: individual TLPs create their own accounts on third party services, such as Twitter and Facebook, without consultation with M&P. That is a bit different from constructing an official [Mastodon] namespace for the Foundation. Who owns *that* namespace? (IMO: M&P)
>
> Should such an official hostname be desired, an Officer Owner will be required. That is likely best discussed internally, but ENOCARE, really.
I agree with Greg’s statement above because that’s how it works.
Best,
Dave
>
> Cheers,
> -g
>
> ps. not speaking for Infra; just explaining how ownership of host/service $foo works at the ASF
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
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Re: [Proposal] ASF Fediverse/ActivityPub instance
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@apache.org>.
On 2022/12/08 20:30:02 Christian Grobmeier wrote:
>...
> Bu t I mentioned, I get your point. Would you be less concerned with a domain like asf.social, since this is not an official domain? Assuming asf.social would be only for ASF community, but also allow "offical" accounts like press@asf.social?
By definition, asf.social is an official domain. ... If it is not, then it is a trademark violation. One might argue the violation (good luck), but isn't the GOAL to have an official domain to establish a trust level?
Trademarks, but more specifically Branding: has stated that the ASF will not "grow" new domains, and that apache.org should be used. Simply to use "asf.social" would require a clear exception grant from Branding.
Next: each hostname/service under apache.org must be owned by an Officer of the Foundation. It was unclear for many years for many years who owned www.apache.org and the announce@apache.org mailing list. The Foundation decided that is our public face, our public messaging, and should (thus) be owned by the VP Marketing & Publicity. M&P also owns our Twitter account and YouTube channel. By similar reasoning, M&P would own how an official hostname used for Mastodon would be portrayed to the general public; especially if it would become official messaging channel(s) for the Foundation.
Note: individual TLPs create their own accounts on third party services, such as Twitter and Facebook, without consultation with M&P. That is a bit different from constructing an official [Mastodon] namespace for the Foundation. Who owns *that* namespace? (IMO: M&P)
Should such an official hostname be desired, an Officer Owner will be required. That is likely best discussed internally, but ENOCARE, really.
Cheers,
-g
ps. not speaking for Infra; just explaining how ownership of host/service $foo works at the ASF
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Re: [Proposal] ASF Fediverse/ActivityPub instance
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@apache.org>.
Hi Joe,
I fully understood your point. Let me ask one question here. If we are concerned about how we would appear in public, because of one committer would say something using their Mastodon:
Aren't we saying "PR over community, community over code?"
Community is also because we have opposite opinions, or sometimes opinions which are different from the ASF. It needs to be like this, otherwise we don't have any development.
Bu t I mentioned, I get your point. Would you be less concerned with a domain like asf.social, since this is not an official domain? Assuming asf.social would be only for ASF community, but also allow "offical" accounts like press@asf.social?
Or is it the same problem in your opinion?
Kind regards,
Christian
On Thu, Dec 8, 2022, at 19:53, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
> There's a very large difference between email and a Mastodon account.
> There's an implicit expectation of moderation around Mastodon
> instances and major differences how people use and consume a
> microblogging service vs. email.
>
> I often tell people that "everything you say publicly is PR" and
> that's true. If you say something on a public mailing list, it's fair
> game for press, etc.
>
> *But* email doesn't have the same level of public exposure and
> resharing that microblogs like Mastodon do. Yes, you can forward an
> email, but there's not a one-click easy button for someone with 10K
> followers to expose that to a much larger audience the way there is
> with Mastodon or Twitter.
>
> *But* with Twitter, unless an account is marked "official" it's
> separate from your organization's identity. (More or less.) If
> @user@apache.org decides to "toot" something, and it spreads, it's
> (potentially) seen as coming from this community and not merely the
> user.
>
> For that reason, I'd strongly prefer limiting any official or
> semi-official ASF instance to projects or roles and not handing out
> accounts for individuals to use as their social media presence in the
> "fediverse."
>
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 7:25 PM Owen O'Malley <om...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> I disagree. I think having an individual identity at Apache is important.
>> Just because I have omalley@X doesn't mean that it is the same as
>> omalley@apache.org. Having a gmail address does not mean that I don't use
>> omalley@apache.org.
>>
>> .. Owen
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 9:25 PM Joe Brockmeier <jz...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> > On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 7:33 AM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 4:50 AM Bertrand Delacretaz
>> > > <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Hi,
>> > > >
>> > > > Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > TL;DR: given a set of moderation guidelines and volunteers to
>> > > > > administer them, I'm willing to set up and host an ASF
>> > > > > Fediverse/ActivityPub instance on fly.io...
>> > > >
>> > > > Do you mean to open this to everybody who has an @apache.org account?
>> > > >
>> > > > Or just for a few official handles like announce@, TheASF@ ?
>> > > >
>> > > > If the latter, the moderation work might be much lower.
>> > > >
>> > > > Or maybe setting up *two* services makes sense, people.s.a.o and
>> > > > foundation.s.a.o, with the latter being more critical but less costly
>> > > > to operate from a moderation point of view.
>> > >
>> > > I don't want this to be me driving the social requirements. I want
>> > > comdev and/or M&P (and ideally both) coming to an agreement on what is
>> > > best.
>> > >
>> > > I'm merely offering to make the technical and hosting parts happen.
>> > >
>> > > I'm OK with experiments (let's try this... no that didn't work, how
>> > > about that). Preferably ones with clear exit criteria (example:
>> > > moderators don't show up and the instance gets shut down).
>> >
>> > From an M&P perspective I'd strongly prefer official handles like
>> > announce, infra, cloudstack, president, etc. and *not* jzb, rubys, and
>> > so forth.
>> >
>> > People are still figuring out the world of ActivityPub/Fediverse, etc.
>> > but I the moderation and policy problems become exponentially more
>> > difficult if we're providing a platform for individual voices vs.
>> > simply providing a platform for "if you want to follow the official
>> > social channel of CloudStack on ActivityPub, this is how you know it's
>> > real and can feel confident in following it" + "here's an easy way to
>> > find all the ASF projects on a social platform."
>> >
>> > Anybody who wants a presence on the fediverse as themselves can find
>> > one easily enough - it's not necessary for us to provide that service
>> > to members the same way it's necessary/desirable to provide email
>> > addresses.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> >
>> > jzb
>> > --
>> > Joe Brockmeier
>> > Vice President Marketing & Publicity
>> > jzb@apache.org
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
> --
> Joe Brockmeier
> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> jzb@apache.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Proposal] ASF Fediverse/ActivityPub instance
Posted by Joe Brockmeier <jz...@apache.org>.
There's a very large difference between email and a Mastodon account.
There's an implicit expectation of moderation around Mastodon
instances and major differences how people use and consume a
microblogging service vs. email.
I often tell people that "everything you say publicly is PR" and
that's true. If you say something on a public mailing list, it's fair
game for press, etc.
*But* email doesn't have the same level of public exposure and
resharing that microblogs like Mastodon do. Yes, you can forward an
email, but there's not a one-click easy button for someone with 10K
followers to expose that to a much larger audience the way there is
with Mastodon or Twitter.
*But* with Twitter, unless an account is marked "official" it's
separate from your organization's identity. (More or less.) If
@user@apache.org decides to "toot" something, and it spreads, it's
(potentially) seen as coming from this community and not merely the
user.
For that reason, I'd strongly prefer limiting any official or
semi-official ASF instance to projects or roles and not handing out
accounts for individuals to use as their social media presence in the
"fediverse."
On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 7:25 PM Owen O'Malley <om...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> I disagree. I think having an individual identity at Apache is important.
> Just because I have omalley@X doesn't mean that it is the same as
> omalley@apache.org. Having a gmail address does not mean that I don't use
> omalley@apache.org.
>
> .. Owen
>
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 9:25 PM Joe Brockmeier <jz...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 7:33 AM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 4:50 AM Bertrand Delacretaz
> > > <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > TL;DR: given a set of moderation guidelines and volunteers to
> > > > > administer them, I'm willing to set up and host an ASF
> > > > > Fediverse/ActivityPub instance on fly.io...
> > > >
> > > > Do you mean to open this to everybody who has an @apache.org account?
> > > >
> > > > Or just for a few official handles like announce@, TheASF@ ?
> > > >
> > > > If the latter, the moderation work might be much lower.
> > > >
> > > > Or maybe setting up *two* services makes sense, people.s.a.o and
> > > > foundation.s.a.o, with the latter being more critical but less costly
> > > > to operate from a moderation point of view.
> > >
> > > I don't want this to be me driving the social requirements. I want
> > > comdev and/or M&P (and ideally both) coming to an agreement on what is
> > > best.
> > >
> > > I'm merely offering to make the technical and hosting parts happen.
> > >
> > > I'm OK with experiments (let's try this... no that didn't work, how
> > > about that). Preferably ones with clear exit criteria (example:
> > > moderators don't show up and the instance gets shut down).
> >
> > From an M&P perspective I'd strongly prefer official handles like
> > announce, infra, cloudstack, president, etc. and *not* jzb, rubys, and
> > so forth.
> >
> > People are still figuring out the world of ActivityPub/Fediverse, etc.
> > but I the moderation and policy problems become exponentially more
> > difficult if we're providing a platform for individual voices vs.
> > simply providing a platform for "if you want to follow the official
> > social channel of CloudStack on ActivityPub, this is how you know it's
> > real and can feel confident in following it" + "here's an easy way to
> > find all the ASF projects on a social platform."
> >
> > Anybody who wants a presence on the fediverse as themselves can find
> > one easily enough - it's not necessary for us to provide that service
> > to members the same way it's necessary/desirable to provide email
> > addresses.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > jzb
> > --
> > Joe Brockmeier
> > Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> > jzb@apache.org
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
> >
--
Joe Brockmeier
Vice President Marketing & Publicity
jzb@apache.org
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Re: [Proposal] ASF Fediverse/ActivityPub instance
Posted by jay vyas <ja...@gmail.com>.
I like my jay@apache.org<ma...@apache.org> email to ! 😊
From: Owen O'Malley <om...@apache.org>
Date: Monday, December 5, 2022 at 7:25 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [Proposal] ASF Fediverse/ActivityPub instance
I disagree. I think having an individual identity at Apache is important.
Just because I have omalley@X doesn't mean that it is the same as
omalley@apache.org. Having a gmail address does not mean that I don't use
omalley@apache.org.
.. Owen
On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 9:25 PM Joe Brockmeier <jz...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 7:33 AM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 4:50 AM Bertrand Delacretaz
> > <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > TL;DR: given a set of moderation guidelines and volunteers to
> > > > administer them, I'm willing to set up and host an ASF
> > > > Fediverse/ActivityPub instance on fly.io...
> > >
> > > Do you mean to open this to everybody who has an @apache.org account?
> > >
> > > Or just for a few official handles like announce@, TheASF@ ?
> > >
> > > If the latter, the moderation work might be much lower.
> > >
> > > Or maybe setting up *two* services makes sense, people.s.a.o and
> > > foundation.s.a.o, with the latter being more critical but less costly
> > > to operate from a moderation point of view.
> >
> > I don't want this to be me driving the social requirements. I want
> > comdev and/or M&P (and ideally both) coming to an agreement on what is
> > best.
> >
> > I'm merely offering to make the technical and hosting parts happen.
> >
> > I'm OK with experiments (let's try this... no that didn't work, how
> > about that). Preferably ones with clear exit criteria (example:
> > moderators don't show up and the instance gets shut down).
>
> From an M&P perspective I'd strongly prefer official handles like
> announce, infra, cloudstack, president, etc. and *not* jzb, rubys, and
> so forth.
>
> People are still figuring out the world of ActivityPub/Fediverse, etc.
> but I the moderation and policy problems become exponentially more
> difficult if we're providing a platform for individual voices vs.
> simply providing a platform for "if you want to follow the official
> social channel of CloudStack on ActivityPub, this is how you know it's
> real and can feel confident in following it" + "here's an easy way to
> find all the ASF projects on a social platform."
>
> Anybody who wants a presence on the fediverse as themselves can find
> one easily enough - it's not necessary for us to provide that service
> to members the same way it's necessary/desirable to provide email
> addresses.
>
> Best,
>
> jzb
> --
> Joe Brockmeier
> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> jzb@apache.org
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
>
Re: [Proposal] ASF Fediverse/ActivityPub instance
Posted by Owen O'Malley <om...@apache.org>.
I disagree. I think having an individual identity at Apache is important.
Just because I have omalley@X doesn't mean that it is the same as
omalley@apache.org. Having a gmail address does not mean that I don't use
omalley@apache.org.
.. Owen
On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 9:25 PM Joe Brockmeier <jz...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 7:33 AM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 4:50 AM Bertrand Delacretaz
> > <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > TL;DR: given a set of moderation guidelines and volunteers to
> > > > administer them, I'm willing to set up and host an ASF
> > > > Fediverse/ActivityPub instance on fly.io...
> > >
> > > Do you mean to open this to everybody who has an @apache.org account?
> > >
> > > Or just for a few official handles like announce@, TheASF@ ?
> > >
> > > If the latter, the moderation work might be much lower.
> > >
> > > Or maybe setting up *two* services makes sense, people.s.a.o and
> > > foundation.s.a.o, with the latter being more critical but less costly
> > > to operate from a moderation point of view.
> >
> > I don't want this to be me driving the social requirements. I want
> > comdev and/or M&P (and ideally both) coming to an agreement on what is
> > best.
> >
> > I'm merely offering to make the technical and hosting parts happen.
> >
> > I'm OK with experiments (let's try this... no that didn't work, how
> > about that). Preferably ones with clear exit criteria (example:
> > moderators don't show up and the instance gets shut down).
>
> From an M&P perspective I'd strongly prefer official handles like
> announce, infra, cloudstack, president, etc. and *not* jzb, rubys, and
> so forth.
>
> People are still figuring out the world of ActivityPub/Fediverse, etc.
> but I the moderation and policy problems become exponentially more
> difficult if we're providing a platform for individual voices vs.
> simply providing a platform for "if you want to follow the official
> social channel of CloudStack on ActivityPub, this is how you know it's
> real and can feel confident in following it" + "here's an easy way to
> find all the ASF projects on a social platform."
>
> Anybody who wants a presence on the fediverse as themselves can find
> one easily enough - it's not necessary for us to provide that service
> to members the same way it's necessary/desirable to provide email
> addresses.
>
> Best,
>
> jzb
> --
> Joe Brockmeier
> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
> jzb@apache.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
>
Re: [Proposal] ASF Fediverse/ActivityPub instance
Posted by Joe Brockmeier <jz...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 7:33 AM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 4:50 AM Bertrand Delacretaz
> <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > TL;DR: given a set of moderation guidelines and volunteers to
> > > administer them, I'm willing to set up and host an ASF
> > > Fediverse/ActivityPub instance on fly.io...
> >
> > Do you mean to open this to everybody who has an @apache.org account?
> >
> > Or just for a few official handles like announce@, TheASF@ ?
> >
> > If the latter, the moderation work might be much lower.
> >
> > Or maybe setting up *two* services makes sense, people.s.a.o and
> > foundation.s.a.o, with the latter being more critical but less costly
> > to operate from a moderation point of view.
>
> I don't want this to be me driving the social requirements. I want
> comdev and/or M&P (and ideally both) coming to an agreement on what is
> best.
>
> I'm merely offering to make the technical and hosting parts happen.
>
> I'm OK with experiments (let's try this... no that didn't work, how
> about that). Preferably ones with clear exit criteria (example:
> moderators don't show up and the instance gets shut down).
From an M&P perspective I'd strongly prefer official handles like
announce, infra, cloudstack, president, etc. and *not* jzb, rubys, and
so forth.
People are still figuring out the world of ActivityPub/Fediverse, etc.
but I the moderation and policy problems become exponentially more
difficult if we're providing a platform for individual voices vs.
simply providing a platform for "if you want to follow the official
social channel of CloudStack on ActivityPub, this is how you know it's
real and can feel confident in following it" + "here's an easy way to
find all the ASF projects on a social platform."
Anybody who wants a presence on the fediverse as themselves can find
one easily enough - it's not necessary for us to provide that service
to members the same way it's necessary/desirable to provide email
addresses.
Best,
jzb
--
Joe Brockmeier
Vice President Marketing & Publicity
jzb@apache.org
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Re: [Proposal] ASF Fediverse/ActivityPub instance
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 4:50 AM Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> >
> > TL;DR: given a set of moderation guidelines and volunteers to
> > administer them, I'm willing to set up and host an ASF
> > Fediverse/ActivityPub instance on fly.io...
>
> Do you mean to open this to everybody who has an @apache.org account?
>
> Or just for a few official handles like announce@, TheASF@ ?
>
> If the latter, the moderation work might be much lower.
>
> Or maybe setting up *two* services makes sense, people.s.a.o and
> foundation.s.a.o, with the latter being more critical but less costly
> to operate from a moderation point of view.
I don't want this to be me driving the social requirements. I want
comdev and/or M&P (and ideally both) coming to an agreement on what is
best.
I'm merely offering to make the technical and hosting parts happen.
I'm OK with experiments (let's try this... no that didn't work, how
about that). Preferably ones with clear exit criteria (example:
moderators don't show up and the instance gets shut down).
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
- Sam Ruby
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Re: [Proposal] ASF Fediverse/ActivityPub instance
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Dec 2, 2022, at 10:49, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>>
>> TL;DR: given a set of moderation guidelines and volunteers to
>> administer them, I'm willing to set up and host an ASF
>> Fediverse/ActivityPub instance on fly.io...
>
> Do you mean to open this to everybody who has an @apache.org account?
>
> Or just for a few official handles like announce@, TheASF@ ?
>
> If the latter, the moderation work might be much lower.
I was thinking the same. If the latter, I can also try to help with moderation. Never did that before, but I can give it a go.
Also, I can help with crafting privacy policy.
I just checked, there is the domain asf.social which costs 45€ a year. Could be nice to have that.
Kind regards,
Christian
>
> Or maybe setting up *two* services makes sense, people.s.a.o and
> foundation.s.a.o, with the latter being more critical but less costly
> to operate from a moderation point of view.
>
> -Bertrand
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
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Re: [Proposal] ASF Fediverse/ActivityPub instance
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>
> TL;DR: given a set of moderation guidelines and volunteers to
> administer them, I'm willing to set up and host an ASF
> Fediverse/ActivityPub instance on fly.io...
Do you mean to open this to everybody who has an @apache.org account?
Or just for a few official handles like announce@, TheASF@ ?
If the latter, the moderation work might be much lower.
Or maybe setting up *two* services makes sense, people.s.a.o and
foundation.s.a.o, with the latter being more critical but less costly
to operate from a moderation point of view.
-Bertrand
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