Podling Lifecycle Management in Whimsy

["John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>]

I've been trying to come up with ways to port the Incubator website.  I
always get stuck on the podling status pages/podlings.xml.  When it comes
to the incubator, vs the podlings status, I feel like these are two
different concerns.

With some recent enhancements that have gone into whimsy, I'm wondering if
it makes sense to move podling management into Whimsy outright.  IPMC
members could login to a web interface, create a podling, PPMC members can
update their podlings.  We can track all of the dates from the status file
in a web form.

Thoughts?

John

Re: Podling Lifecycle Management in Whimsy

[sebb <se...@gmail.com>]

On 5 June 2017 at 11:17, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
> On 2017-06-05 04:09 (-0400), sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5 June 2017 at 00:46, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 7:34 PM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 4:36 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > I've been trying to come up with ways to port the Incubator website.  I
>> >> > always get stuck on the podling status pages/podlings.xml.  When it comes
>> >> > to the incubator, vs the podlings status, I feel like these are two
>> >> > different concerns.
>> >> >
>> >> > With some recent enhancements that have gone into whimsy, I'm wondering
>> >> if
>> >> > it makes sense to move podling management into Whimsy outright.  IPMC
>> >> > members could login to a web interface, create a podling, PPMC members
>> >> can
>> >> > update their podlings.  We can track all of the dates from the status
>> >> file
>> >> > in a web form.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thoughts?
>> >>
>> >> I'm not sure I understand the question.
>> >>
>> >> Things like podlings.xml are places where data is stored.
>> >>
>> >> Whimsy tools can be used to update data whereever it may be.  In fact,
>> >> it can co-exist nicely with other tools that update the same data.
>> >> Including text editors.
>> >>
>> >> Whimsy tools can also update information in multiple places.  Adding a
>> >> mentor to a podling using the roster tool updates both LDAP and
>> >> podlings.xml.
>> >>
>> >> The content in
>> >> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/projects
>> >> is an entirely different matter.  Looking at a few case, it appears to
>> >> be nearly but not accurately parseable.  If those files could be
>> >> converted to something more semantic (ideally JSON or YAML), and a
>> >> tool written which converts that data into HTML, then text editors and
>> >> web interfaces alike could be used to update this data.
>>
>> JSON does not allow comments, so I don't think that's ideal.
>
> What kinds of comments were you thinking of?

The sort of comments that are in the existing XML files.

Hints as to how to fill in the blanks (for direct SVN editting).

etc.

>>
>> Why not XML as is used for podlings.xml?
>> That has a DTD which can be used for validation.
>>
>> >>
>> >
>> > This description is basically the problem I'm addressing.  The format of
>> > the status file is some kind of XML/HTML hybrid.  The only tools that can
>> > parse it is a retired velocity library.
>> >
>> > The status file is better served in a structured format, filling out a
>> > static website template, rather than mixing HTML with XML to get the
>> > desired format. It's error prone.
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps you are suggesting that instead of static webpage generation
>> >> from the underlying data source that a whimsy tool could be used to
>> >> render this information dynamically?  If that's what you mean, that's
>> >> definitely possible.  And isn't mutually exclusive with other tools
>> >> generating pages from this same data.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Pretty much.  I also believe we can aggregate data together from reporter,
>> > whimsy board reports, to fill in the rest.  I may put together a prototype
>> > in a few days and see what others think.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Either way, the roster tool could still be used to add a mentor.  It
>> >> just would update this information in three places (podlings.xml,
>> >> LDAP, and status file).
>> >>
>> >> > John
>> >>
>> >> - Sam Ruby
>> >>
>>

Re: Podling Lifecycle Management in Whimsy

["John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>]

On 2017-06-05 04:09 (-0400), sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> On 5 June 2017 at 00:46, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 7:34 PM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 4:36 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> > I've been trying to come up with ways to port the Incubator website.  I
> >> > always get stuck on the podling status pages/podlings.xml.  When it comes
> >> > to the incubator, vs the podlings status, I feel like these are two
> >> > different concerns.
> >> >
> >> > With some recent enhancements that have gone into whimsy, I'm wondering
> >> if
> >> > it makes sense to move podling management into Whimsy outright.  IPMC
> >> > members could login to a web interface, create a podling, PPMC members
> >> can
> >> > update their podlings.  We can track all of the dates from the status
> >> file
> >> > in a web form.
> >> >
> >> > Thoughts?
> >>
> >> I'm not sure I understand the question.
> >>
> >> Things like podlings.xml are places where data is stored.
> >>
> >> Whimsy tools can be used to update data whereever it may be.  In fact,
> >> it can co-exist nicely with other tools that update the same data.
> >> Including text editors.
> >>
> >> Whimsy tools can also update information in multiple places.  Adding a
> >> mentor to a podling using the roster tool updates both LDAP and
> >> podlings.xml.
> >>
> >> The content in
> >> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/projects
> >> is an entirely different matter.  Looking at a few case, it appears to
> >> be nearly but not accurately parseable.  If those files could be
> >> converted to something more semantic (ideally JSON or YAML), and a
> >> tool written which converts that data into HTML, then text editors and
> >> web interfaces alike could be used to update this data.
> 
> JSON does not allow comments, so I don't think that's ideal.

What kinds of comments were you thinking of?

> 
> Why not XML as is used for podlings.xml?
> That has a DTD which can be used for validation.
> 
> >>
> >
> > This description is basically the problem I'm addressing.  The format of
> > the status file is some kind of XML/HTML hybrid.  The only tools that can
> > parse it is a retired velocity library.
> >
> > The status file is better served in a structured format, filling out a
> > static website template, rather than mixing HTML with XML to get the
> > desired format. It's error prone.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Perhaps you are suggesting that instead of static webpage generation
> >> from the underlying data source that a whimsy tool could be used to
> >> render this information dynamically?  If that's what you mean, that's
> >> definitely possible.  And isn't mutually exclusive with other tools
> >> generating pages from this same data.
> >>
> >>
> > Pretty much.  I also believe we can aggregate data together from reporter,
> > whimsy board reports, to fill in the rest.  I may put together a prototype
> > in a few days and see what others think.
> >
> >
> >> Either way, the roster tool could still be used to add a mentor.  It
> >> just would update this information in three places (podlings.xml,
> >> LDAP, and status file).
> >>
> >> > John
> >>
> >> - Sam Ruby
> >>
> 

Re: Podling Lifecycle Management in Whimsy

[sebb <se...@gmail.com>]

On 5 June 2017 at 00:46, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 7:34 PM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 4:36 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> > I've been trying to come up with ways to port the Incubator website.  I
>> > always get stuck on the podling status pages/podlings.xml.  When it comes
>> > to the incubator, vs the podlings status, I feel like these are two
>> > different concerns.
>> >
>> > With some recent enhancements that have gone into whimsy, I'm wondering
>> if
>> > it makes sense to move podling management into Whimsy outright.  IPMC
>> > members could login to a web interface, create a podling, PPMC members
>> can
>> > update their podlings.  We can track all of the dates from the status
>> file
>> > in a web form.
>> >
>> > Thoughts?
>>
>> I'm not sure I understand the question.
>>
>> Things like podlings.xml are places where data is stored.
>>
>> Whimsy tools can be used to update data whereever it may be.  In fact,
>> it can co-exist nicely with other tools that update the same data.
>> Including text editors.
>>
>> Whimsy tools can also update information in multiple places.  Adding a
>> mentor to a podling using the roster tool updates both LDAP and
>> podlings.xml.
>>
>> The content in
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/projects
>> is an entirely different matter.  Looking at a few case, it appears to
>> be nearly but not accurately parseable.  If those files could be
>> converted to something more semantic (ideally JSON or YAML), and a
>> tool written which converts that data into HTML, then text editors and
>> web interfaces alike could be used to update this data.

JSON does not allow comments, so I don't think that's ideal.

Why not XML as is used for podlings.xml?
That has a DTD which can be used for validation.

>>
>
> This description is basically the problem I'm addressing.  The format of
> the status file is some kind of XML/HTML hybrid.  The only tools that can
> parse it is a retired velocity library.
>
> The status file is better served in a structured format, filling out a
> static website template, rather than mixing HTML with XML to get the
> desired format. It's error prone.
>
>
>>
>> Perhaps you are suggesting that instead of static webpage generation
>> from the underlying data source that a whimsy tool could be used to
>> render this information dynamically?  If that's what you mean, that's
>> definitely possible.  And isn't mutually exclusive with other tools
>> generating pages from this same data.
>>
>>
> Pretty much.  I also believe we can aggregate data together from reporter,
> whimsy board reports, to fill in the rest.  I may put together a prototype
> in a few days and see what others think.
>
>
>> Either way, the roster tool could still be used to add a mentor.  It
>> just would update this information in three places (podlings.xml,
>> LDAP, and status file).
>>
>> > John
>>
>> - Sam Ruby
>>

Re: Podling Lifecycle Management in Whimsy

["John D. Ament" <jo...@apache.org>]

On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 7:34 PM Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 4:36 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > I've been trying to come up with ways to port the Incubator website.  I
> > always get stuck on the podling status pages/podlings.xml.  When it comes
> > to the incubator, vs the podlings status, I feel like these are two
> > different concerns.
> >
> > With some recent enhancements that have gone into whimsy, I'm wondering
> if
> > it makes sense to move podling management into Whimsy outright.  IPMC
> > members could login to a web interface, create a podling, PPMC members
> can
> > update their podlings.  We can track all of the dates from the status
> file
> > in a web form.
> >
> > Thoughts?
>
> I'm not sure I understand the question.
>
> Things like podlings.xml are places where data is stored.
>
> Whimsy tools can be used to update data whereever it may be.  In fact,
> it can co-exist nicely with other tools that update the same data.
> Including text editors.
>
> Whimsy tools can also update information in multiple places.  Adding a
> mentor to a podling using the roster tool updates both LDAP and
> podlings.xml.
>
> The content in
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/projects
> is an entirely different matter.  Looking at a few case, it appears to
> be nearly but not accurately parseable.  If those files could be
> converted to something more semantic (ideally JSON or YAML), and a
> tool written which converts that data into HTML, then text editors and
> web interfaces alike could be used to update this data.
>

This description is basically the problem I'm addressing.  The format of
the status file is some kind of XML/HTML hybrid.  The only tools that can
parse it is a retired velocity library.

The status file is better served in a structured format, filling out a
static website template, rather than mixing HTML with XML to get the
desired format. It's error prone.


>
> Perhaps you are suggesting that instead of static webpage generation
> from the underlying data source that a whimsy tool could be used to
> render this information dynamically?  If that's what you mean, that's
> definitely possible.  And isn't mutually exclusive with other tools
> generating pages from this same data.
>
>
Pretty much.  I also believe we can aggregate data together from reporter,
whimsy board reports, to fill in the rest.  I may put together a prototype
in a few days and see what others think.


> Either way, the roster tool could still be used to add a mentor.  It
> just would update this information in three places (podlings.xml,
> LDAP, and status file).
>
> > John
>
> - Sam Ruby
>

Re: Podling Lifecycle Management in Whimsy

[Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>]

On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 4:36 PM, John D. Ament <jo...@apache.org> wrote:
> I've been trying to come up with ways to port the Incubator website.  I
> always get stuck on the podling status pages/podlings.xml.  When it comes
> to the incubator, vs the podlings status, I feel like these are two
> different concerns.
>
> With some recent enhancements that have gone into whimsy, I'm wondering if
> it makes sense to move podling management into Whimsy outright.  IPMC
> members could login to a web interface, create a podling, PPMC members can
> update their podlings.  We can track all of the dates from the status file
> in a web form.
>
> Thoughts?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

Things like podlings.xml are places where data is stored.

Whimsy tools can be used to update data whereever it may be.  In fact,
it can co-exist nicely with other tools that update the same data.
Including text editors.

Whimsy tools can also update information in multiple places.  Adding a
mentor to a podling using the roster tool updates both LDAP and
podlings.xml.

The content in https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/projects
is an entirely different matter.  Looking at a few case, it appears to
be nearly but not accurately parseable.  If those files could be
converted to something more semantic (ideally JSON or YAML), and a
tool written which converts that data into HTML, then text editors and
web interfaces alike could be used to update this data.

Perhaps you are suggesting that instead of static webpage generation
from the underlying data source that a whimsy tool could be used to
render this information dynamically?  If that's what you mean, that's
definitely possible.  And isn't mutually exclusive with other tools
generating pages from this same data.

Either way, the roster tool could still be used to add a mentor.  It
just would update this information in three places (podlings.xml,
LDAP, and status file).

> John

- Sam Ruby