You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@struts.apache.org by Nicolas De Loof <ni...@capgemini.com> on 2005/06/03 09:49:59 UTC
proposal : weekly / snapshot / milestone builds
Hello,
as a Struts user, I'd like to test Struts 1.3-dev. The current build
process based on "nightly builds", but IMHO it is too "fine-grained" for
lot's of user.
Eclipse uses "Milestones" to drop technology preview and get users
feedback. It would be great to get such previews from struts dev team.
This could simply consist on marking a nightly as "struts-1.3.0-Mx" when
any commiter consider it to include significant updates.
I don't expect such Milestones to have any test/release lifecycle, just
to deliver easy and attractive access to in-development Struts. Such
milestones may be annonced only on developper list, to avoid users to
consider them as "alpha", and warning this milestones beeing technology
preview without any garanty.
Nico.
This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
Re: proposal : weekly / snapshot / milestone builds
Posted by Ted Husted <te...@gmail.com>.
On 6/3/05, Nicolas De Loof <ni...@capgemini.com> wrote:
> Eclipse uses "Milestones" to drop technology preview and get users
> feedback. It would be great to get such previews from struts dev team.
> This could simply consist on marking a nightly as "struts-1.3.0-Mx" when
> any commiter consider it to include significant updates.
The real problem is not systemic. As others have mentioned, we can
release milestones as often as we like. Each non-nightly build uses a
three part integer. When someone is ready, we can roll a 1.3.0
milestone build, and then decide on the build's quality:
test/milestone, alpha, beta, or General Release. Regardless of what
happens with that milestone, we can go on to roll a 1.3.1 milestone
build, whenever anyone is ready.
The problem is this: Despite being the world's most popular Java web
application framework, we have zero full-time Struts developers on the
team. Each and every one of us has another full-time job. All we have
to devote to Struts is whatever volunteer hours we can squeeze in
between work and family. So things are moving very, very slowly.
If there are any realistic and pragmatic project managers out there
eager to use a stable Struts 1.3.x release, then I'd suggest tasking
some able bodies to pitch in and help out.
* http://struts.apache.org/faqs/helping.html
Otherwise, the milestones will continue to come in dribs and drabs, as
they do now.
Many Apache projects have developers on the team who work on the
project as part of their daytime job. But, oddly, not Struts. :?
-Ted.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
Re: proposal : weekly / snapshot / milestone builds
Posted by Nicolas De Loof <ni...@capgemini.com>.
I've made some early test using a nightly. I just don't like using them
for some reasons :
- nobody knows what's the status of a nightly. It has been automatically
built (perhaps it has lot's of bugs) and I cannot easily know if it is
"more" stable or as new fonctionnalities compare to other earlier nightlies.
- it may be difficult to describe a bug on the dev list refering to a
specific nightly, that no-one else may use.
- I cannot ask my boss to start coding a (long term) project using a
nightly, as he likes roadmaps and full explicit version numbers.
I my mind, a Milestone is a development stream drop (like maven
SNAPSHOT) that *someone* in dev team has successfully used without
unknown bug. This may sound like a "works for me".
About releasing such a milestone, I just expected a nightly to be
renamed/copied "struts-1.3.0-Mx.jar" in apache nightlies repository and
an unofficial annoncement on dev-list. The Milestone process could be
based on a period between milestone, let's say every month, and any
commiter just asking on dev list "is anybody doing some hard changes ?
Do someone veto a new Milestone ?" before setting a new milestone.
Nico.
Joe Germuska a écrit :
> At 9:49 AM +0200 6/3/05, Nicolas De Loof wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> as a Struts user, I'd like to test Struts 1.3-dev. The current build
>> process based on "nightly builds", but IMHO it is too "fine-grained"
>> for lot's of user.
>>
>> Eclipse uses "Milestones" to drop technology preview and get users
>> feedback. It would be great to get such previews from struts dev
>> team. This could simply consist on marking a nightly as
>> "struts-1.3.0-Mx" when any commiter consider it to include
>> significant updates.
>>
>> I don't expect such Milestones to have any test/release lifecycle,
>> just to deliver easy and attractive access to in-development Struts.
>> Such milestones may be annonced only on developper list, to avoid
>> users to consider them as "alpha", and warning this milestones beeing
>> technology preview without any garanty.
>
>
> I'm sympathetic to this, particularly because I'd like to see more
> people starting to use Struts 1.3. It seems relatively low-cost as
> you describe it. With the adoption of the "httpd-style" release
> numbering, we should be more free to cut numbered releases with only
> slightly more formality than you describe, while not being heavily
> burdened with testing before the release; however, we haven't seen a
> lot of committers finding the time to cut releases.
>
> I'm crunching on deadline right now, so it would be probably a month
> or more before I'd be ready to even try cutting a 1.3.0 release.
>
> Are you waiting to use a 1.3-dev nightly build until something like
> this can be established? Or do you just think it would make things
> easier? There has not been a whole lot of development activity, so I
> think it's safe to take the latest build; my current project is
> running on a build from around May 12th right now, but I don't think
> there have been any changes to the 1.3 head since then, or at least
> nothing major.
>
> Joe
>
This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
Re: proposal : weekly / snapshot / milestone builds
Posted by Joe Germuska <Jo...@Germuska.com>.
>One thing I would like to see, though, before we cut even a test
>build, is the removal of all of the stuff that's deprecated that we
>said we'd remove after 1.2.x, along with anything that hasn't been in
>a release yet that we don't want to make it into a release. (Joe, I
>think you have a couple of things in mind here.) We should clean up
>the cruft so that people know what won't be there in 1.3.x, before
>they start depending on it.
Yes, in fact I've been thinking about this. Just to put it out there
(and to help my memory) the key thing I'd like to review before a
1.3.0 release is how the process-action subchain works. As was
discussed recently on the user list (and also a few months back),
it's kind of awkward to have several of the commands paying attention
to the "valid" status of the form. That violates the kind of
encapsulation that commands should have.
There are a few things about how chain execution works that make this
a little clumsy, but I have some idea of how we could do it; the idea
is that the chain which processes and validates the form should end
naturally after validation. Then there could be subsequent
ConditionalLookupCommands which execute subchains in specific
conditions. This would make the main chain look like this:
preprocess
process-form
if (form_valid) { process-action }
if (!form_valid) { process-invalid-form}
process-view
process-form would the the first part of what's now process-action;
process-action would be the remainder, with the checks for
form-validity removed.
process-invalid-form would be only "select input"
process-view would be unchanged
I wouldn't necessarily say this should block a 1.3.0 release -- but
for people who use chain like I do, with considerable modifications
of the base chain-config.xml, it would be awkward to change that
between releases. However, I am going on vacation in a couple of
weeks, and I'm on deadline now, so I'm not sure I'll be able to do
anything about it before late June.
It would be kind of cool for Struts 1.3.0 to be fully released by
JavaOne, no? I am definitely ready to call it "beta" based on the
amount of development I've been doing upon it already.
Joe
--
Joe Germuska
Joe@Germuska.com
http://blog.germuska.com
"Narrow minds are weapons made for mass destruction" -The Ex
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
Re: proposal : weekly / snapshot / milestone builds
Posted by Martin Cooper <mf...@gmail.com>.
On 6/3/05, Joe Germuska <Jo...@germuska.com> wrote:
> At 9:49 AM +0200 6/3/05, Nicolas De Loof wrote:
> >Hello,
> >
> >as a Struts user, I'd like to test Struts 1.3-dev. The current build
> >process based on "nightly builds", but IMHO it is too "fine-grained"
> >for lot's of user.
> >
> >Eclipse uses "Milestones" to drop technology preview and get users
> >feedback. It would be great to get such previews from struts dev
> >team. This could simply consist on marking a nightly as
> >"struts-1.3.0-Mx" when any commiter consider it to include
> >significant updates.
> >
> >I don't expect such Milestones to have any test/release lifecycle,
> >just to deliver easy and attractive access to in-development Struts.
> >Such milestones may be annonced only on developper list, to avoid
> >users to consider them as "alpha", and warning this milestones
> >beeing technology preview without any garanty.
>
> I'm sympathetic to this, particularly because I'd like to see more
> people starting to use Struts 1.3. It seems relatively low-cost as
> you describe it. With the adoption of the "httpd-style" release
> numbering, we should be more free to cut numbered releases with only
> slightly more formality than you describe, while not being heavily
> burdened with testing before the release; however, we haven't seen a
> lot of committers finding the time to cut releases.
I've been pretty swamped for a while now, but I'm expecting to free up
a bit in a few days. I would also like to see a 1.3.0 test build, so I
might even try to get that done. ;-) I would not be in favour of
adding a "milestone" designation, since we already have "test build"
which is effectively the same thing. But I think that's where you're
at too, Joe.
One thing I would like to see, though, before we cut even a test
build, is the removal of all of the stuff that's deprecated that we
said we'd remove after 1.2.x, along with anything that hasn't been in
a release yet that we don't want to make it into a release. (Joe, I
think you have a couple of things in mind here.) We should clean up
the cruft so that people know what won't be there in 1.3.x, before
they start depending on it.
--
Martin Cooper
> I'm crunching on deadline right now, so it would be probably a month
> or more before I'd be ready to even try cutting a 1.3.0 release.
>
> Are you waiting to use a 1.3-dev nightly build until something like
> this can be established? Or do you just think it would make things
> easier? There has not been a whole lot of development activity, so I
> think it's safe to take the latest build; my current project is
> running on a build from around May 12th right now, but I don't think
> there have been any changes to the 1.3 head since then, or at least
> nothing major.
>
> Joe
>
> --
> Joe Germuska
> Joe@Germuska.com
> http://blog.germuska.com
> "Narrow minds are weapons made for mass destruction" -The Ex
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
Re: proposal : weekly / snapshot / milestone builds
Posted by Joe Germuska <Jo...@Germuska.com>.
At 9:49 AM +0200 6/3/05, Nicolas De Loof wrote:
>Hello,
>
>as a Struts user, I'd like to test Struts 1.3-dev. The current build
>process based on "nightly builds", but IMHO it is too "fine-grained"
>for lot's of user.
>
>Eclipse uses "Milestones" to drop technology preview and get users
>feedback. It would be great to get such previews from struts dev
>team. This could simply consist on marking a nightly as
>"struts-1.3.0-Mx" when any commiter consider it to include
>significant updates.
>
>I don't expect such Milestones to have any test/release lifecycle,
>just to deliver easy and attractive access to in-development Struts.
>Such milestones may be annonced only on developper list, to avoid
>users to consider them as "alpha", and warning this milestones
>beeing technology preview without any garanty.
I'm sympathetic to this, particularly because I'd like to see more
people starting to use Struts 1.3. It seems relatively low-cost as
you describe it. With the adoption of the "httpd-style" release
numbering, we should be more free to cut numbered releases with only
slightly more formality than you describe, while not being heavily
burdened with testing before the release; however, we haven't seen a
lot of committers finding the time to cut releases.
I'm crunching on deadline right now, so it would be probably a month
or more before I'd be ready to even try cutting a 1.3.0 release.
Are you waiting to use a 1.3-dev nightly build until something like
this can be established? Or do you just think it would make things
easier? There has not been a whole lot of development activity, so I
think it's safe to take the latest build; my current project is
running on a build from around May 12th right now, but I don't think
there have been any changes to the 1.3 head since then, or at least
nothing major.
Joe
--
Joe Germuska
Joe@Germuska.com
http://blog.germuska.com
"Narrow minds are weapons made for mass destruction" -The Ex
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org