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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by Jim Blandy <ji...@zwingli.cygnus.com> on 2001/02/01 21:38:36 UTC
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
pete collins <pe...@collab.net> writes:
> I installed db3 and it now compiles fine.
> That seemed to be the problem.
> Configure did fail when checking for db3 however, it still tried to
> build libsvn_fs.
Okay --- could you uninstall db3 and fix ac-helpers/berkeley-db.m4 so
that SVN_LIB_BERKELEY_DB works as documented on your system? I can't
reproduce your problem, so I can't fix it myself. You're our only
hope.
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@newton.collab.net>.
Brian Behlendorf <br...@collab.net> writes:
> On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Sam TH wrote:
>
> Actually, RMS now doesn't have an issue with clause 3, because someone who
> satisfies the GPL in redistributing Apache code is also satisfying clause
> 3.
>
> Anyways, I've got some homework to do to make this all official.
>
Whatever it takes, Brian. This is really fantastic political work
you're doing. I can't wait for a breakthrough. :)
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by Brian Behlendorf <br...@collab.net>.
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Sam TH wrote:
> The incompatibility is exactly the same sort as the old BSD
> advertising clause. The additional restrictions (that you have to
> credit the ASF, or whomever, and that you can't use the Apache name,
> or whatever name the package has) are "additional restrictions" that
> violates clause 6 of the GPL [1]
Actually, RMS now doesn't have an issue with clause 3, because someone who
satisfies the GPL in redistributing Apache code is also satisfying clause
3.
Anyways, I've got some homework to do to make this all official.
Brian
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by Sam TH <sa...@uchicago.edu>.
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 12:51:04PM -0800, Greg Stein wrote:
> [ moved to dev@apr.apache.org ]
>
> On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 02:35:35PM -0600, Sam TH wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 12:31:33PM -0800, Greg Stein wrote:
> >...
> > > > that in AbiWord, keeping things working across platforms would be
> > > > nearly impossible without the help of Tinderbox. APR makes that
> > > > easier here (insert license whine) but it's still a good idea.
> > >
> > > What's wrong with the license?
> >
> > if(license1 == apache && license2 == gpl)
> > gratuitousIncompatibility = true;
>
> RMS_posits_incompatibility_without_explanation = true
The incompatibility is exactly the same sort as the old BSD
advertising clause. The additional restrictions (that you have to
credit the ASF, or whomever, and that you can't use the Apache name,
or whatever name the package has) are "additional restrictions" that
violates clause 6 of the GPL [1]
>
> > Supposedly RMS and Brian Behlendorf are working to resolve this.
>
> Brian is asking his reasoning, RMS isn't responding.
>
> In the past, I believe he has stated that clause (4) is an "additional
> restriction" which violates some clause in the GPL. But he continues to be
> mum on the situation.
>
See:
http://mail.conecta.it/pipermail/freesw/2000-December/000729.html
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html
<quote src="RMS">
However, the current Apache license has a substantive incompatibility
which won't go away. It says, in various ways, that modified versions
can't be called "Apache". That is a requirement which is not in the
GPL; there are no two ways about it--and it is not a trivial one.
Thus, while GPL version 2.1 would make some additional licenses
compatible, the present Apache license is not one of them.
</quote>
The most annoying thing about this is this message to debian-legal,
from Brian Behlendorf:
<quote src="http://www.geocrawler.com/mail/msg.php3?msg_id=3907426&list=208">
That`s why both clauses contain the word "please", and don`t say the
word "must". Trademark protection is beyond the scope of a copyright
license, and protection of the Apache name is very important to us -
we`d be pretty pissed by someone releasing a product called
"ApachePro", "Apache++", etc, even if it was open source. Yet we do
allow it to be used from time to time, basically by those who are
solid contributors to the code base.
</quote>
Unfortunately, that's not actually what the license says.
> The ASF is going to rewrite clause 4 and 5 so that we don't have to
> search/replace every copy of the license that we attach to the software.
> That should coincidentally remove his perceived incompatibility.
>
Wonderful. That will make me very happy. What can I do to make this
happen sooner? (kidding about the last one)
> Note that you are in charge of the GPL'd software, it is always your right
> to make an allowance *if* this perceived incompatibility bothers you.
> ("nothing in this license [the GPL] should be construed as interfering with
> the inclusion of the APR project.")
Well, it would be that easy, if there weren't over 100 copyright
holders.
[1] "You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients'
exercise of the rights granted herein."
sam th
sam@uchicago.edu
http://www.abisource.com/~sam/
GnuPG Key:
http://www.abisource.com/~sam/key
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by Brian Behlendorf <br...@collab.net>.
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Greg Stein wrote:
> > Supposedly RMS and Brian Behlendorf are working to resolve this.
>
> Brian is asking his reasoning, RMS isn't responding.
He has been, we've been talking, slowly as we're both real busy,
but I think I've closed down to something I can reasonably propose to the
ASF once I get some headspace.
> The ASF is going to rewrite clause 4 and 5 so that we don't have to
> search/replace every copy of the license that we attach to the software.
> That should coincidentally remove his perceived incompatibility.
If we do it right. =)
When that happens, I'll have no issue with moving the tigris.org copyright
to match it.
Brian
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>.
[ moved to dev@apr.apache.org ]
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 02:35:35PM -0600, Sam TH wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 12:31:33PM -0800, Greg Stein wrote:
>...
> > > that in AbiWord, keeping things working across platforms would be
> > > nearly impossible without the help of Tinderbox. APR makes that
> > > easier here (insert license whine) but it's still a good idea.
> >
> > What's wrong with the license?
>
> if(license1 == apache && license2 == gpl)
> gratuitousIncompatibility = true;
RMS_posits_incompatibility_without_explanation = true
> Supposedly RMS and Brian Behlendorf are working to resolve this.
Brian is asking his reasoning, RMS isn't responding.
In the past, I believe he has stated that clause (4) is an "additional
restriction" which violates some clause in the GPL. But he continues to be
mum on the situation.
The ASF is going to rewrite clause 4 and 5 so that we don't have to
search/replace every copy of the license that we attach to the software.
That should coincidentally remove his perceived incompatibility.
Note that you are in charge of the GPL'd software, it is always your right
to make an allowance *if* this perceived incompatibility bothers you.
("nothing in this license [the GPL] should be construed as interfering with
the inclusion of the APR project.")
Cheers,
-g
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by Sam TH <sa...@uchicago.edu>.
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 12:31:33PM -0800, Greg Stein wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 02:26:09PM -0600, Sam TH wrote:
> >...
> > And I can't reccomend Tinderbox highly enough for Subversion. I know
>
> Branko has periodically done a number of compiles on different platforms. It
> would be nice to use a Tinderbox, but somebody also has to take the time to
> do so.
Yes, certainly, and I periodically compile on Be. But big animated
flames have a way of moving people to action. And they let you know
much quicker that you screwed up.
>
> > that in AbiWord, keeping things working across platforms would be
> > nearly impossible without the help of Tinderbox. APR makes that
> > easier here (insert license whine) but it's still a good idea.
>
> What's wrong with the license?
if(license1 == apache && license2 == gpl)
gratuitousIncompatibility = true;
Supposedly RMS and Brian Behlendorf are working to resolve this. I
sure hope so, because APR is quite a nice library, and I wish I could
use it more.
sam th
sam@uchicago.edu
http://www.abisource.com/~sam/
GnuPG Key:
http://www.abisource.com/~sam/key
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by Sam TH <sa...@uchicago.edu>.
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 09:36:04PM +0100, Branko ?ibej wrote:
> Greg Stein wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 02:26:09PM -0600, Sam TH wrote:
> >
> >> ...
> >> And I can't reccomend Tinderbox highly enough for Subversion. I know
> >
> >
> > Branko has periodically done a number of compiles on different platforms.
>
> Still do, but you'd notice it's periodical only if you did a Fourier
> transform and counted the non-zero parameters. :-)
Well, it has been my experience that massive flaming compile death
tends to come in cycles. But then, I never was a numerical analysis
kind of guy. :-)
sam th
sam@uchicago.edu
http://www.abisource.com/~sam/
GnuPG Key:
http://www.abisource.com/~sam/key
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@xbc.nu>.
Greg Stein wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 02:26:09PM -0600, Sam TH wrote:
>
>> ...
>> And I can't reccomend Tinderbox highly enough for Subversion. I know
>
>
> Branko has periodically done a number of compiles on different platforms.
Still do, but you'd notice it's periodical only if you did a Fourier
transform and counted the non-zero parameters. :-)
--
Brane �ibej
home: <br...@xbc.nu> http://www.xbc.nu/brane/
work: <br...@hermes.si> http://www.hermes-softlab.com/
ACM: <br...@acm.org> http://www.acm.org/
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>.
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 02:26:09PM -0600, Sam TH wrote:
>...
> And I can't reccomend Tinderbox highly enough for Subversion. I know
Branko has periodically done a number of compiles on different platforms. It
would be nice to use a Tinderbox, but somebody also has to take the time to
do so.
> that in AbiWord, keeping things working across platforms would be
> nearly impossible without the help of Tinderbox. APR makes that
> easier here (insert license whine) but it's still a good idea.
What's wrong with the license?
Cheers,
-g
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by Sam TH <sa...@uchicago.edu>.
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 03:46:11PM -0500, pete collins wrote:
> > Is there a web site for this (or any such thing)? As a fellow
> > tinderbox admin, I'm quite curious.
>
>
> Yea, eazel is running the new tinderbox.
>
> http://tinderbox.eazel.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi
>
> Ironically, mozilla hasn't switched over yet.
>
Looks neat. I'll have to check it out.
And I can't reccomend Tinderbox highly enough for Subversion. I know
that in AbiWord, keeping things working across platforms would be
nearly impossible without the help of Tinderbox. APR makes that
easier here (insert license whine) but it's still a good idea.
sam th
sam@uchicago.edu
http://www.abisource.com/~sam/
GnuPG Key:
http://www.abisource.com/~sam/key
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by pete collins <pe...@collab.net>.
> Is there a web site for this (or any such thing)? As a fellow
> tinderbox admin, I'm quite curious.
Yea, eazel is running the new tinderbox.
http://tinderbox.eazel.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi
Ironically, mozilla hasn't switched over yet.
--pete
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by Sam TH <sa...@uchicago.edu>.
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 03:25:33PM -0500, pete collins wrote:
> Karl Fogel wrote:
> >
> > Awesome, thanks for checking up on this!
> >
> > -K
>
> Anytime.
>
> Did you guys ever think of running TinderBox 2?
> I was talking to the author Ken Estes Monday and it is very cool rewrite
> of tinderbox.
>
> It is a very handy tool to have around.
Is there a web site for this (or any such thing)? As a fellow
tinderbox admin, I'm quite curious.
sam th
sam@uchicago.edu
http://www.abisource.com/~sam/
GnuPG Key:
http://www.abisource.com/~sam/key
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by Karl Fogel <kf...@galois.collab.net>.
pete collins <pe...@collab.net> writes:
> Anytime.
>
> Did you guys ever think of running TinderBox 2?
> I was talking to the author Ken Estes Monday and it is very cool rewrite
> of tinderbox.
>
> It is a very handy tool to have around.
Anybody who wants to set that up is welcome! :-)
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by pete collins <pe...@collab.net>.
Karl Fogel wrote:
>
> Awesome, thanks for checking up on this!
>
> -K
Anytime.
Did you guys ever think of running TinderBox 2?
I was talking to the author Ken Estes Monday and it is very cool rewrite
of tinderbox.
It is a very handy tool to have around.
--pete
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by Karl Fogel <kf...@galois.collab.net>.
Awesome, thanks for checking up on this!
-K
pete collins <pe...@collab.net> writes:
> killed the tree on the linux (i686-pc-linux-gnu) laptop and pulled
> fresh.
> Builds fine.
>
> The *original* FreeBSD box (i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.1) where i now have
> uninstalled libdb3.
>
> config.log:
> /usr/libexec/elf/ld: cannot find -ldb
> configure: failed program was:
> #line 2011 "configure"
> #include "confdefs.h"
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ GOOD
>
> $ gmake
> $ ./svn --help
> usage: svn <subcommand> [options] [args]
> Type "svn help <subcommand>" for help on a specific subcommand.
>
> Most subcommands take file and/or directory arguments, recursing
> on the directories. If no arguments are supplied to such a
> command, it will recurse on the current directory (inclusive) by
> default.
>
> Available subcommands:
> add (ad, new)
> checkout (co)
> commit (ci)
> delete (del, remove, rm)
> help (?, h)
> proplist (plist, pl)
> propget (pget, pg)
> propset (pset, ps)
> status (stat, st)
> diff (df)
> update (up)
>
>
> It all looks good to me.
>
> So i now have 2 FreeBSD boxes and a linux machine building fine w/out
> libdb3
>
> Thanks
>
> --pete
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by pete collins <pe...@collab.net>.
killed the tree on the linux (i686-pc-linux-gnu) laptop and pulled
fresh.
Builds fine.
The *original* FreeBSD box (i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.1) where i now have
uninstalled libdb3.
config.log:
/usr/libexec/elf/ld: cannot find -ldb
configure: failed program was:
#line 2011 "configure"
#include "confdefs.h"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ GOOD
$ gmake
$ ./svn --help
usage: svn <subcommand> [options] [args]
Type "svn help <subcommand>" for help on a specific subcommand.
Most subcommands take file and/or directory arguments, recursing
on the directories. If no arguments are supplied to such a
command, it will recurse on the current directory (inclusive) by
default.
Available subcommands:
add (ad, new)
checkout (co)
commit (ci)
delete (del, remove, rm)
help (?, h)
proplist (plist, pl)
propget (pget, pg)
propset (pset, ps)
status (stat, st)
diff (df)
update (up)
It all looks good to me.
So i now have 2 FreeBSD boxes and a linux machine building fine w/out
libdb3
Thanks
--pete
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by pete collins <pe...@collab.net>.
> I'm sorry to be such a hardass about this, especially since I've never
> as much as said hello to you before jumping on you to fix something.
> But when someone is able to reproduce a problem I suspect is there but
> can't reproduce myself, I want to pounce on it.
Wait, i was under the impression that this was addressed and the fix was
checked in the other day and i was just *verifying* that we are no
longer trying to link to db3 when builing on systems less that library.
I'll try it on this FreeBSD box that failed as well as my linux laptop
which also failed the other day.
Thanks
--pete
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by Jim Blandy <ji...@zwingli.cygnus.com>.
>Hence, everything seems to be in order now as i just stated in the
>previous email.
No, things are not in order. We don't know what went wrong the first
time.
I understand the impulse to say, "Okay, I've gotten past that, gotta
get back to what I originally came here for." But keep in mind that
other users are going to have the same experience you did initially.
Just because it builds for you now doesn't mean the job is done. We
need to find out why it didn't work, and fix it --- now.
I'm sorry to be such a hardass about this, especially since I've never
as much as said hello to you before jumping on you to fix something.
But when someone is able to reproduce a problem I suspect is there but
can't reproduce myself, I want to pounce on it.
Please try uninstalling DB3 on your box at work, and see if you can
reproduce the problem you had initially.
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by pete collins <pe...@collab.net>.
> So if you've
> got time to kill, do a `make uninstall' of db3 and see if libsvn_fs is
> still attempted.
Dude, this is result of that . . .
My home box DOESN'T have db3 installed on it. (Thats why i used it
instead)
Hence, everything seems to be in order now as i just stated in the
previous email.
Thanks
--pete
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@newton.collab.net>.
pete collins <pe...@collab.net> writes:
> > Okay --- could you uninstall db3 and fix ac-helpers/berkeley-db.m4 so
> > that SVN_LIB_BERKELEY_DB works as documented on your system? I can't
> > reproduce your problem, so I can't fix it myself. You're our only
> > hope.
>
> Instead of uninstalling, i'm using my box at home:
> `i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.0'
>
> After installing automake and pulling the cvs and all dependencies.
>
> Everything seems fine.
I build on FreeBSD 4.0, 4.1, and 4.2 almost every day... if you've
installed /usr/ports/databases/db3, then Jim's auto-db3-finding-macro
should work fine. And as you said in a previous mail, it did work for
you, as we would expect.
But if I recall, the original problem you mentioned was that our build
system attempted to build libsvn_fs when it *couldn't* find db3. This
is an error, and this is the bug Jim is referring to. So if you've
got time to kill, do a `make uninstall' of db3 and see if libsvn_fs is
still attempted.
Re: Build bustage on FreeBSD and Linux
Posted by pete collins <pe...@collab.net>.
> Okay --- could you uninstall db3 and fix ac-helpers/berkeley-db.m4 so
> that SVN_LIB_BERKELEY_DB works as documented on your system? I can't
> reproduce your problem, so I can't fix it myself. You're our only
> hope.
Instead of uninstalling, i'm using my box at home:
`i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.0'
After installing automake and pulling the cvs and all dependencies.
Everything seems fine.
$ ./autogen.sh
$ ./configure --with-maintainer-mode --disable-shared
$ gmake
$ cd subversion/client
$ ./svn --help
usage: svn <subcommand> [options] [args]
Type "svn help <subcommand>" for help on a specific subcommand.
Most subcommands take file and/or directory arguments, recursing
on the directories. If no arguments are supplied to such a
command, it will recurse on the current directory (inclusive) by
default.
Available subcommands:
add (ad, new)
checkout (co)
commit (ci)
delete (del, remove, rm)
help (?, h)
proplist (plist, pl)
propget (pget, pg)
propset (pset, ps)
status (stat, st)
diff (df)
update (up)
When i get a chance, i'll do this on the 4.1 box again and see how it
goes.
Thanks
--pete