You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@joshua.apache.org by Tom Barber <to...@spicule.co.uk> on 2018/02/02 03:22:30 UTC
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
I'd just like to dig this one back. Seeing how Matt accepted the
proposal and there is action from Tommaso and Lewis to get stuff
merged, it seems like there is general consensus to get Joshua out of
the incubator.
Tom
On 06/10/17 06:03, Matt Post wrote:
> Thanks Tommaso. Though, I should say, initial thanks goes to Zhifei Li. I just took it over.
>
> I think I can stick around in the capacity Chris suggests. Thanks, all.
>
> matt
>
>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Tommaso Teofili <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> +1 to Chris's proposal.
>>
>> Let me also add my thanks to you Matt for making Joshua happen in first
>> place and for bringing it to the ASF and involving me and the rest of the
>> team in such an interesting piece of sw and to machine translation in
>> general. I do understand the need for you to move into the NMT stuff but at
>> the same time I think Joshua is a very good resource (given also the so
>> many language packs available) for people and / or projects that want to
>> start with MT having reasonably good results so I can still see its value.
>>
>> My 2 cents,
>> Tommaso
>>
>>
>>
>> Il giorno mar 26 set 2017 alle ore 18:57 Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>
>> ha scritto:
>>
>>> Thanks Matt. My feeling is that if you are willing to make you the chair
>>> of the project,
>>> which is really an administrative role if you are willing and willingness
>>> to submit a board
>>> report once monthly, and then quarterly after 3 months. This is to
>>> recognize your contributions
>>> and merit to the project, which will never expire. Even if you are not
>>> actively developing, I think
>>> you would make a great chair.
>>>
>>> Apache Joshua works, has a release, and has a good community around it of
>>> people like Lewis,
>>> Tommaso, and others that I think it would withstand even your development
>>> departure. It could
>>> also make a good academic/learning tool and could be something we could
>>> focus on getting new
>>> GSOC projects to add in the NeuralMT stuff.
>>>
>>> If you are OK with that I think we should proceed. Let me know and thanks.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/25/17, 11:24 PM, "Matt Post" <po...@cs.jhu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I think now is as good time a time as any to mention my feelings about
>>> Joshua. You may have noticed that I haven't done much active development
>>> over the past year; you likely also know that the reason is that the
>>> research community has shifted entirely from work on statistical models to
>>> work on neural machine translation. On the research side, neural models now
>>> consistently outperform phrase-based systems on BLEU score on language
>>> pairs where there is enough data (roughly, around 15 million words of
>>> training), and work there has injected a lot of new life into a field that
>>> many had felt was starting to stagnate. From a production standpoint,
>>> neural systems are also a big win: the models do best with a GPU and take
>>> some time to train, but the architecture and pipeline are simpler, and the
>>> resulting models are constant-sized and on the order of a few gigabytes at
>>> most, instead of scaling with training data into the tens of gigabytes, as
>>> statistical systems do. Test-time inference can also be run fairly
>>> efficiently on CPUs where throughput demands are low enough. All commercial
>>> systems are now neural or are quickly moving in that direction, including
>>> relatively surprising places like Systran, which until recently was known
>>> as the world's best-known rule-based system. As GPUs become more ubiquitous
>>> and cheap, this situation is only going to get better, even for the end
>>> user. There is little doubt that neural MT has supplanted statistical
>>> approaches to machine translation, across both academic research and
>>> industry. And it is still in its relative infancy, with lots of interesting
>>> research problems and engineering issues to investigate and resolve.
>>>
>>> It's somewhat sad for me because I've been working on or with Joshua
>>> for almost seven years, but I also find my feelings here interesting in
>>> contrast to a previous time I've felt tugged away from Joshua. As many of
>>> you know, Philipp Koehn joined JHU a few years ago, which brought some
>>> tension to JHU with respect to collaborating on research. There was
>>> pressure for me to switch. Moses had a much bigger development community
>>> and was much more feature rich, but despite this, I was reluctant to let go
>>> of Joshua, for a number of reasons. Java is nicer to work with than C++
>>> (and not really that much slower); our code is better written, IMO; jar
>>> files are easier to distribute than C++ in compiled or source form; and, of
>>> course, I had much more familiarity with the codebase, not to mention
>>> something of a personal stake in Joshua. But with neural MT, I have none of
>>> these reservations. It's nice for one to have the Moses/Joshua tension
>>> resolved (sometimes, ignoring a problem does make it go away!), but for all
>>> the reasons I listed in the opening paragraph, NMT is now the clear way to
>>> go. And the bottom line for me is that I can no longer justify spending
>>> time on Joshua during my working hours, and with a young family and other
>>> interests that I want to pursue, I don't have time for it outside of work.
>>> I am happy to still linger on the project, but am unlikely to be much of an
>>> active participant unless I'm explicitly asked for something.
>>>
>>> As I've written before here, I think there may still some role for
>>> statistical systems, and therefore, for Joshua. In low-resource situations,
>>> StatMT may still be the right approach overall, or even simply the best way
>>> to quickly build up a working system. There is some promise I think in
>>> deploying models easily on older hardware that people have, and perhaps
>>> getting people to hep contribute translations and translation memories that
>>> could be used to build and improve systems. There are surely more good
>>> ideas in this space in the vein of providing a good tool to users.
>>>
>>> It's been a great experience for me working with the Apache community
>>> on Joshua. I am grateful to Chris for convincing us to make Joshua an
>>> Apache incubator project, which put a lot of new life into the project.
>>> Lewis has been a lot of help throughout helping smooth over the transition;
>>> Tommaso has repeatedly helped with tasks large and small; and that is just
>>> three of you. It's too bad therefore that the timing just didn't work out,
>>> but neural MT ascended very rapidly. I know there are other members here
>>> who are also thinking along these lines. At the same time, I hope my
>>> departure from active development doesn’t mean the end of the project for
>>> those of you who wish to keep working on it.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> matt
>>>
>>>
>>>> Le 25 sept. 2017 à 23:10, Tommaso Teofili <to...@gmail.com>
>>> a écrit :
>>>> I would also think we're ready for graduation.
>>>> My only concern relates to how many of the current committers are
>>> willing
>>>> to keep contributing to the project, basically if we have a PMC
>>> which is
>>>> big enough for the graduation.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Tommaso
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Il giorno sab 23 set 2017 alle ore 01:21 Chris Mattmann <
>>> mattmann@apache.org>
>>>> ha scritto:
>>>>
>>>>> Tom, glad you raised this issue, IMO, Joshua is ready for TLP.
>>>>>
>>>>> We’ve:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Added new PPMC/committers
>>>>> 2. Made a release
>>>>> 3. Been friendly and cordial and welcoming on the lists
>>>>> 4. Vetted the software
>>>>> 5. Have some decent, emerging docs
>>>>>
>>>>> Graduation time…Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S. Subject line change to officially turn this into a [DISCUSS]
>>> and
>>>>> hopefully
>>>>> a [VOTE]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/22/17, 4:19 PM, "Tom Barber" <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So I've not checked against the checklist on the podling page
>>> yet, but
>>>>> what
>>>>> do people feel is missing from Joshua prior to graduation?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd like to see some non mentors ship a release so we know we've
>>> got
>>>>> the
>>>>> docs right, but of course it doesn't have to be a major release.
>>>>> Similarly
>>>>> was all the licensing stuff resolved etc?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm curious as its not a very fast paced project and it feels
>>> like ones
>>>>> like Joshua could sit in the incubator for years without causing
>>> much
>>>>> trouble but also not graduating. I'm not in any great rush, but
>>> what do
>>>>> people feel about it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
--
Spicule Limited is registered in England & Wales. Company Number: 09954122.
Registered office: First Floor, Telecom House, 125-135 Preston Road,
Brighton, England, BN1 6AF. VAT No. 251478891.
All engagements are subject to Spicule Terms and Conditions of Business.
This email and its contents are intended solely for the individual to whom
it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential,
privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure, distributing or copying.
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent those of Spicule Limited. The
company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted
by this email. If you have received this message in error, please notify us
immediately by reply email before deleting it from your system. Service of
legal notice cannot be effected on Spicule Limited by email.
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
Posted by Tommaso Teofili <to...@gmail.com>.
cool, thanks Chris!
Il giorno ven 2 feb 2018 alle ore 04:48 Mattmann, Chris A (1761) <
chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> ha scritto:
> +1 I’ll draft the resolution and send shortly for community vote
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 1, 2018, at 7:22 PM, Tom Barber <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > I'd just like to dig this one back. Seeing how Matt accepted the
> proposal and there is action from Tommaso and Lewis to get stuff merged,
> it seems like there is general consensus to get Joshua out of the incubator.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >> On 06/10/17 06:03, Matt Post wrote:
> >> Thanks Tommaso. Though, I should say, initial thanks goes to Zhifei Li.
> I just took it over.
> >>
> >> I think I can stick around in the capacity Chris suggests. Thanks, all.
> >>
> >> matt
> >>
> >>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Tommaso Teofili <
> tommaso.teofili@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> +1 to Chris's proposal.
> >>>
> >>> Let me also add my thanks to you Matt for making Joshua happen in first
> >>> place and for bringing it to the ASF and involving me and the rest of
> the
> >>> team in such an interesting piece of sw and to machine translation in
> >>> general. I do understand the need for you to move into the NMT stuff
> but at
> >>> the same time I think Joshua is a very good resource (given also the so
> >>> many language packs available) for people and / or projects that want
> to
> >>> start with MT having reasonably good results so I can still see its
> value.
> >>>
> >>> My 2 cents,
> >>> Tommaso
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Il giorno mar 26 set 2017 alle ore 18:57 Chris Mattmann <
> mattmann@apache.org>
> >>> ha scritto:
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks Matt. My feeling is that if you are willing to make you the
> chair
> >>>> of the project,
> >>>> which is really an administrative role if you are willing and
> willingness
> >>>> to submit a board
> >>>> report once monthly, and then quarterly after 3 months. This is to
> >>>> recognize your contributions
> >>>> and merit to the project, which will never expire. Even if you are not
> >>>> actively developing, I think
> >>>> you would make a great chair.
> >>>>
> >>>> Apache Joshua works, has a release, and has a good community around
> it of
> >>>> people like Lewis,
> >>>> Tommaso, and others that I think it would withstand even your
> development
> >>>> departure. It could
> >>>> also make a good academic/learning tool and could be something we
> could
> >>>> focus on getting new
> >>>> GSOC projects to add in the NeuralMT stuff.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you are OK with that I think we should proceed. Let me know and
> thanks.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> Chris
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 9/25/17, 11:24 PM, "Matt Post" <po...@cs.jhu.edu> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi everyone,
> >>>>
> >>>> I think now is as good time a time as any to mention my feelings
> about
> >>>> Joshua. You may have noticed that I haven't done much active
> development
> >>>> over the past year; you likely also know that the reason is that the
> >>>> research community has shifted entirely from work on statistical
> models to
> >>>> work on neural machine translation. On the research side, neural
> models now
> >>>> consistently outperform phrase-based systems on BLEU score on language
> >>>> pairs where there is enough data (roughly, around 15 million words of
> >>>> training), and work there has injected a lot of new life into a field
> that
> >>>> many had felt was starting to stagnate. From a production standpoint,
> >>>> neural systems are also a big win: the models do best with a GPU and
> take
> >>>> some time to train, but the architecture and pipeline are simpler,
> and the
> >>>> resulting models are constant-sized and on the order of a few
> gigabytes at
> >>>> most, instead of scaling with training data into the tens of
> gigabytes, as
> >>>> statistical systems do. Test-time inference can also be run fairly
> >>>> efficiently on CPUs where throughput demands are low enough. All
> commercial
> >>>> systems are now neural or are quickly moving in that direction,
> including
> >>>> relatively surprising places like Systran, which until recently was
> known
> >>>> as the world's best-known rule-based system. As GPUs become more
> ubiquitous
> >>>> and cheap, this situation is only going to get better, even for the
> end
> >>>> user. There is little doubt that neural MT has supplanted statistical
> >>>> approaches to machine translation, across both academic research and
> >>>> industry. And it is still in its relative infancy, with lots of
> interesting
> >>>> research problems and engineering issues to investigate and resolve.
> >>>>
> >>>> It's somewhat sad for me because I've been working on or with
> Joshua
> >>>> for almost seven years, but I also find my feelings here interesting
> in
> >>>> contrast to a previous time I've felt tugged away from Joshua. As
> many of
> >>>> you know, Philipp Koehn joined JHU a few years ago, which brought some
> >>>> tension to JHU with respect to collaborating on research. There was
> >>>> pressure for me to switch. Moses had a much bigger development
> community
> >>>> and was much more feature rich, but despite this, I was reluctant to
> let go
> >>>> of Joshua, for a number of reasons. Java is nicer to work with than
> C++
> >>>> (and not really that much slower); our code is better written, IMO;
> jar
> >>>> files are easier to distribute than C++ in compiled or source form;
> and, of
> >>>> course, I had much more familiarity with the codebase, not to mention
> >>>> something of a personal stake in Joshua. But with neural MT, I have
> none of
> >>>> these reservations. It's nice for one to have the Moses/Joshua tension
> >>>> resolved (sometimes, ignoring a problem does make it go away!), but
> for all
> >>>> the reasons I listed in the opening paragraph, NMT is now the clear
> way to
> >>>> go. And the bottom line for me is that I can no longer justify
> spending
> >>>> time on Joshua during my working hours, and with a young family and
> other
> >>>> interests that I want to pursue, I don't have time for it outside of
> work.
> >>>> I am happy to still linger on the project, but am unlikely to be much
> of an
> >>>> active participant unless I'm explicitly asked for something.
> >>>>
> >>>> As I've written before here, I think there may still some role for
> >>>> statistical systems, and therefore, for Joshua. In low-resource
> situations,
> >>>> StatMT may still be the right approach overall, or even simply the
> best way
> >>>> to quickly build up a working system. There is some promise I think in
> >>>> deploying models easily on older hardware that people have, and
> perhaps
> >>>> getting people to hep contribute translations and translation
> memories that
> >>>> could be used to build and improve systems. There are surely more good
> >>>> ideas in this space in the vein of providing a good tool to users.
> >>>>
> >>>> It's been a great experience for me working with the Apache
> community
> >>>> on Joshua. I am grateful to Chris for convincing us to make Joshua an
> >>>> Apache incubator project, which put a lot of new life into the
> project.
> >>>> Lewis has been a lot of help throughout helping smooth over the
> transition;
> >>>> Tommaso has repeatedly helped with tasks large and small; and that is
> just
> >>>> three of you. It's too bad therefore that the timing just didn't work
> out,
> >>>> but neural MT ascended very rapidly. I know there are other members
> here
> >>>> who are also thinking along these lines. At the same time, I hope my
> >>>> departure from active development doesn’t mean the end of the project
> for
> >>>> those of you who wish to keep working on it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sincerely,
> >>>> matt
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Le 25 sept. 2017 à 23:10, Tommaso Teofili <tommaso.teofili@gmail.com
> >
> >>>> a écrit :
> >>>>> I would also think we're ready for graduation.
> >>>>> My only concern relates to how many of the current committers are
> >>>> willing
> >>>>> to keep contributing to the project, basically if we have a PMC
> >>>> which is
> >>>>> big enough for the graduation.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>> Tommaso
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Il giorno sab 23 set 2017 alle ore 01:21 Chris Mattmann <
> >>>> mattmann@apache.org>
> >>>>> ha scritto:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Tom, glad you raised this issue, IMO, Joshua is ready for TLP.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We’ve:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1. Added new PPMC/committers
> >>>>>> 2. Made a release
> >>>>>> 3. Been friendly and cordial and welcoming on the lists
> >>>>>> 4. Vetted the software
> >>>>>> 5. Have some decent, emerging docs
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Graduation time…Thoughts?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>> Chris
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> P.S. Subject line change to officially turn this into a [DISCUSS]
> >>>> and
> >>>>>> hopefully
> >>>>>> a [VOTE]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 9/22/17, 4:19 PM, "Tom Barber" <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So I've not checked against the checklist on the podling page
> >>>> yet, but
> >>>>>> what
> >>>>>> do people feel is missing from Joshua prior to graduation?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'd like to see some non mentors ship a release so we know we've
> >>>> got
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> docs right, but of course it doesn't have to be a major release.
> >>>>>> Similarly
> >>>>>> was all the licensing stuff resolved etc?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm curious as its not a very fast paced project and it feels
> >>>> like ones
> >>>>>> like Joshua could sit in the incubator for years without causing
> >>>> much
> >>>>>> trouble but also not graduating. I'm not in any great rush, but
> >>>> what do
> >>>>>> people feel about it?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Tom
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Spicule Limited is registered in England & Wales. Company Number:
> 09954122 <099%2054122>. Registered office: First Floor, Telecom House,
> 125-135 Preston Road, Brighton, England, BN1 6AF. VAT No. 251478891.
> >
> >
> > All engagements are subject to Spicule Terms and Conditions of Business.
> This email and its contents are intended solely for the individual to whom
> it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential,
> privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure, distributing or copying.
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
> author and do not necessarily represent those of Spicule Limited. The
> company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted
> by this email. If you have received this message in error, please notify us
> immediately by reply email before deleting it from your system. Service of
> legal notice cannot be effected on Spicule Limited by email.
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
Posted by Tommaso Teofili <to...@gmail.com>.
thanks Chris, it looks good to me.
Shall we take it to the Incubator list ?
Il giorno ven 7 set 2018 alle ore 00:06 Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>
ha scritto:
> OK, I think Tommaso would make a great chair. Here’s a revised resolution:
>
>
>
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>
> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>
> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>
> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>
> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
>
> the public, related to statistical and other forms of machine
>
> translation.
>
>
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>
> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Joshua Project",
>
> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>
> Foundation; and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Joshua Project be and hereby is
>
> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>
> related to statistical and other forms of machine translation;
>
> and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Joshua" be
>
> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
>
> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
>
> of the Apache Joshua Project, and to have primary responsibility
>
> for management of the projects within the scope of
>
> responsibility of the Apache Joshua Project; and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>
> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>
> Apache Joshua Project:
>
>
>
> * Tom Barber <ma...@apache.org>
>
> * Thamme Gowda <th...@apache.org>
>
> * Felix Hieber <fh...@apache.org>
>
> * Lewis John McGibbney <le...@apache.org>
>
> * Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>
>
> * Matt Post <mj...@apache.org>
>
> * Paul Ramirez <pr...@apache.org>
>
> * Henry Saputra <hs...@apache.org>
>
> * Kellen Sunderland <ke...@apache.org>
>
> * Tommaso Teofili <to...@apache.org>
>
>
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Tommaso Teofili
>
> be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Joshua to
>
> serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the
>
> Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
>
> death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
>
> or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Joshua PMC be and hereby is
>
> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>
> encourage open development and increased participation in the
>
> Apache Joshua Project; and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Joshua Project be and hereby
>
> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
>
> Incubator Joshua podling; and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>
> Incubator Joshua podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
>
> Project are hereafter discharged.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Tommaso Teofili <to...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <
> dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
> Date: Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 2:37 PM
> To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <de...@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
>
>
>
> that would be fine for me, unless anyone else is willing to take over.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Tommaso
>
>
>
> Il giorno gio 6 set 2018 alle ore 17:56 Chris Mattmann <
> mattmann@apache.org>
>
> ha scritto:
>
>
>
> Matt,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for following up here. I understand.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tommaso, would you be interested in being the chair of the project?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Matt Post <po...@cs.jhu.edu>
>
> Reply-To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <
>
> dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
>
> Date: Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 8:41 AM
>
> To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <de...@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
>
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It is fine with me if you want to move to graduation, but at this point I
>
> will assert that I don't have the time to contribute, and do not wish to be
>
> involved as a committee member once that threshold is crossed. It has been
>
> a good run and I have only fond associations with the project, but it is
>
> time for me to move on, and I wish you all the best.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2018, at 11:36 AM, Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Coming back to this.
>
>
>
> Sorry it took so long :/
>
>
>
> Here is a proposed graduation template. I will call for a VOTE on it
>
>
>
> by mid-next week once the discussion comes to consensus.
>
>
>
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>
>
>
> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>
>
>
> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>
>
>
> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>
>
>
> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
>
>
>
> the public, related to statistical and other forms of machine
>
>
>
> translation.
>
>
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>
>
>
> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Joshua Project",
>
>
>
> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>
>
>
> Foundation; and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Joshua Project be and hereby is
>
>
>
> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>
>
>
> related to statistical and other forms of machine translation;
>
>
>
> and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Joshua" be
>
>
>
> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
>
>
>
> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
>
>
>
> of the Apache Joshua Project, and to have primary responsibility
>
>
>
> for management of the projects within the scope of
>
>
>
> responsibility of the Apache Joshua Project; and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>
>
>
> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>
>
>
> Apache Joshua Project:
>
>
>
> * Tom Barber <ma...@apache.org>
>
>
>
> * Thamme Gowda <th...@apache.org>
>
>
>
> * Felix Hieber <fh...@apache.org>
>
>
>
> * Lewis John McGibbney <le...@apache.org>
>
>
>
> * Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>
>
>
>
> * Matt Post <mj...@apache.org>
>
>
>
> * Paul Ramirez <pr...@apache.org>
>
>
>
> * Henry Saputra <hs...@apache.org>
>
>
>
> * Kellen Sunderland <ke...@apache.org>
>
>
>
> * Tommaso Teofili <to...@apache.org>
>
>
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Matt Post
>
>
>
> be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Joshua to
>
>
>
> serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the
>
>
>
> Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
>
>
>
> death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
>
>
>
> or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Joshua PMC be and hereby is
>
>
>
> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>
>
>
> encourage open development and increased participation in the
>
>
>
> Apache Joshua Project; and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Joshua Project be and hereby
>
>
>
> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
>
>
>
> Incubator Joshua podling; and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>
>
>
> Incubator Joshua podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
>
>
>
> Project are hereafter discharged.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> From: Thamme Gowda <tg...@gmail.com>
>
>
>
> Reply-To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <
>
> dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
>
>
>
> Date: Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 7:51 PM
>
>
>
> To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <de...@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
>
>
>
> Great news!
>
>
>
> 2018-02-01 19:48 GMT-08:00 Mattmann, Chris A (1761) <
>
>
>
> chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>:
>
>
>
> +1 I’ll draft the resolution and send shortly for community vote
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Feb 1, 2018, at 7:22 PM, Tom Barber <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> I'd just like to dig this one back. Seeing how Matt accepted the
>
>
>
> proposal and there is action from Tommaso and Lewis to get stuff merged,
>
>
>
> it seems like there is general consensus to get Joshua out of the
>
> incubator.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> On 06/10/17 06:03, Matt Post wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks Tommaso. Though, I should say, initial thanks goes to Zhifei Li.
>
>
>
> I just took it over.
>
>
>
> I think I can stick around in the capacity Chris suggests. Thanks, all.
>
>
>
> matt
>
>
>
> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Tommaso Teofili <
>
>
>
> tommaso.teofili@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> +1 to Chris's proposal.
>
>
>
> Let me also add my thanks to you Matt for making Joshua happen in first
>
>
>
> place and for bringing it to the ASF and involving me and the rest of
>
>
>
> the
>
>
>
> team in such an interesting piece of sw and to machine translation in
>
>
>
> general. I do understand the need for you to move into the NMT stuff
>
>
>
> but at
>
>
>
> the same time I think Joshua is a very good resource (given also the so
>
>
>
> many language packs available) for people and / or projects that want
>
>
>
> to
>
>
>
> start with MT having reasonably good results so I can still see its
>
>
>
> value.
>
>
>
> My 2 cents,
>
>
>
> Tommaso
>
>
>
> Il giorno mar 26 set 2017 alle ore 18:57 Chris Mattmann <
>
>
>
> mattmann@apache.org>
>
>
>
> ha scritto:
>
>
>
> Thanks Matt. My feeling is that if you are willing to make you the
>
>
>
> chair
>
>
>
> of the project,
>
>
>
> which is really an administrative role if you are willing and
>
>
>
> willingness
>
>
>
> to submit a board
>
>
>
> report once monthly, and then quarterly after 3 months. This is to
>
>
>
> recognize your contributions
>
>
>
> and merit to the project, which will never expire. Even if you are not
>
>
>
> actively developing, I think
>
>
>
> you would make a great chair.
>
>
>
> Apache Joshua works, has a release, and has a good community around
>
>
>
> it of
>
>
>
> people like Lewis,
>
>
>
> Tommaso, and others that I think it would withstand even your
>
>
>
> development
>
>
>
> departure. It could
>
>
>
> also make a good academic/learning tool and could be something we
>
>
>
> could
>
>
>
> focus on getting new
>
>
>
> GSOC projects to add in the NeuralMT stuff.
>
>
>
> If you are OK with that I think we should proceed. Let me know and
>
>
>
> thanks.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> On 9/25/17, 11:24 PM, "Matt Post" <po...@cs.jhu.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> I think now is as good time a time as any to mention my feelings
>
>
>
> about
>
>
>
> Joshua. You may have noticed that I haven't done much active
>
>
>
> development
>
>
>
> over the past year; you likely also know that the reason is that the
>
>
>
> research community has shifted entirely from work on statistical
>
>
>
> models to
>
>
>
> work on neural machine translation. On the research side, neural
>
>
>
> models now
>
>
>
> consistently outperform phrase-based systems on BLEU score on language
>
>
>
> pairs where there is enough data (roughly, around 15 million words of
>
>
>
> training), and work there has injected a lot of new life into a field
>
>
>
> that
>
>
>
> many had felt was starting to stagnate. From a production standpoint,
>
>
>
> neural systems are also a big win: the models do best with a GPU and
>
>
>
> take
>
>
>
> some time to train, but the architecture and pipeline are simpler,
>
>
>
> and the
>
>
>
> resulting models are constant-sized and on the order of a few
>
>
>
> gigabytes at
>
>
>
> most, instead of scaling with training data into the tens of
>
>
>
> gigabytes, as
>
>
>
> statistical systems do. Test-time inference can also be run fairly
>
>
>
> efficiently on CPUs where throughput demands are low enough. All
>
>
>
> commercial
>
>
>
> systems are now neural or are quickly moving in that direction,
>
>
>
> including
>
>
>
> relatively surprising places like Systran, which until recently was
>
>
>
> known
>
>
>
> as the world's best-known rule-based system. As GPUs become more
>
>
>
> ubiquitous
>
>
>
> and cheap, this situation is only going to get better, even for the
>
>
>
> end
>
>
>
> user. There is little doubt that neural MT has supplanted statistical
>
>
>
> approaches to machine translation, across both academic research and
>
>
>
> industry. And it is still in its relative infancy, with lots of
>
>
>
> interesting
>
>
>
> research problems and engineering issues to investigate and resolve.
>
>
>
> It's somewhat sad for me because I've been working on or with
>
>
>
> Joshua
>
>
>
> for almost seven years, but I also find my feelings here interesting
>
>
>
> in
>
>
>
> contrast to a previous time I've felt tugged away from Joshua. As
>
>
>
> many of
>
>
>
> you know, Philipp Koehn joined JHU a few years ago, which brought some
>
>
>
> tension to JHU with respect to collaborating on research. There was
>
>
>
> pressure for me to switch. Moses had a much bigger development
>
>
>
> community
>
>
>
> and was much more feature rich, but despite this, I was reluctant to
>
>
>
> let go
>
>
>
> of Joshua, for a number of reasons. Java is nicer to work with than
>
>
>
> C++
>
>
>
> (and not really that much slower); our code is better written, IMO;
>
>
>
> jar
>
>
>
> files are easier to distribute than C++ in compiled or source form;
>
>
>
> and, of
>
>
>
> course, I had much more familiarity with the codebase, not to mention
>
>
>
> something of a personal stake in Joshua. But with neural MT, I have
>
>
>
> none of
>
>
>
> these reservations. It's nice for one to have the Moses/Joshua tension
>
>
>
> resolved (sometimes, ignoring a problem does make it go away!), but
>
>
>
> for all
>
>
>
> the reasons I listed in the opening paragraph, NMT is now the clear
>
>
>
> way to
>
>
>
> go. And the bottom line for me is that I can no longer justify
>
>
>
> spending
>
>
>
> time on Joshua during my working hours, and with a young family and
>
>
>
> other
>
>
>
> interests that I want to pursue, I don't have time for it outside of
>
>
>
> work.
>
>
>
> I am happy to still linger on the project, but am unlikely to be much
>
>
>
> of an
>
>
>
> active participant unless I'm explicitly asked for something.
>
>
>
> As I've written before here, I think there may still some role for
>
>
>
> statistical systems, and therefore, for Joshua. In low-resource
>
>
>
> situations,
>
>
>
> StatMT may still be the right approach overall, or even simply the
>
>
>
> best way
>
>
>
> to quickly build up a working system. There is some promise I think in
>
>
>
> deploying models easily on older hardware that people have, and
>
>
>
> perhaps
>
>
>
> getting people to hep contribute translations and translation
>
>
>
> memories that
>
>
>
> could be used to build and improve systems. There are surely more good
>
>
>
> ideas in this space in the vein of providing a good tool to users.
>
>
>
> It's been a great experience for me working with the Apache
>
>
>
> community
>
>
>
> on Joshua. I am grateful to Chris for convincing us to make Joshua an
>
>
>
> Apache incubator project, which put a lot of new life into the
>
>
>
> project.
>
>
>
> Lewis has been a lot of help throughout helping smooth over the
>
>
>
> transition;
>
>
>
> Tommaso has repeatedly helped with tasks large and small; and that is
>
>
>
> just
>
>
>
> three of you. It's too bad therefore that the timing just didn't work
>
>
>
> out,
>
>
>
> but neural MT ascended very rapidly. I know there are other members
>
>
>
> here
>
>
>
> who are also thinking along these lines. At the same time, I hope my
>
>
>
> departure from active development doesn’t mean the end of the project
>
>
>
> for
>
>
>
> those of you who wish to keep working on it.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> matt
>
>
>
> Le 25 sept. 2017 à 23:10, Tommaso Teofili <tommaso.teofili@gmail.com
>
>
>
> a écrit :
>
>
>
> I would also think we're ready for graduation.
>
>
>
> My only concern relates to how many of the current committers are
>
>
>
> willing
>
>
>
> to keep contributing to the project, basically if we have a PMC
>
>
>
> which is
>
>
>
> big enough for the graduation.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Tommaso
>
>
>
> Il giorno sab 23 set 2017 alle ore 01:21 Chris Mattmann <
>
>
>
> mattmann@apache.org>
>
>
>
> ha scritto:
>
>
>
> Tom, glad you raised this issue, IMO, Joshua is ready for TLP.
>
>
>
> We’ve:
>
>
>
> 1. Added new PPMC/committers
>
>
>
> 2. Made a release
>
>
>
> 3. Been friendly and cordial and welcoming on the lists
>
>
>
> 4. Vetted the software
>
>
>
> 5. Have some decent, emerging docs
>
>
>
> Graduation time…Thoughts?
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> P.S. Subject line change to officially turn this into a [DISCUSS]
>
>
>
> and
>
>
>
> hopefully
>
>
>
> a [VOTE]
>
>
>
> On 9/22/17, 4:19 PM, "Tom Barber" <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> So I've not checked against the checklist on the podling page
>
>
>
> yet, but
>
>
>
> what
>
>
>
> do people feel is missing from Joshua prior to graduation?
>
>
>
> I'd like to see some non mentors ship a release so we know we've
>
>
>
> got
>
>
>
> the
>
>
>
> docs right, but of course it doesn't have to be a major release.
>
>
>
> Similarly
>
>
>
> was all the licensing stuff resolved etc?
>
>
>
> I'm curious as its not a very fast paced project and it feels
>
>
>
> like ones
>
>
>
> like Joshua could sit in the incubator for years without causing
>
>
>
> much
>
>
>
> trouble but also not graduating. I'm not in any great rush, but
>
>
>
> what do
>
>
>
> people feel about it?
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Spicule Limited is registered in England & Wales. Company Number:
>
>
>
> 09954122. Registered office: First Floor, Telecom House, 125-135 Preston
>
>
>
> Road, Brighton, England, BN1 6AF. VAT No. 251478891.
>
>
>
> All engagements are subject to Spicule Terms and Conditions of Business.
>
>
>
> This email and its contents are intended solely for the individual to whom
>
>
>
> it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential,
>
>
>
> privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure, distributing or copying.
>
>
>
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
>
>
>
> author and do not necessarily represent those of Spicule Limited. The
>
>
>
> company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted
>
>
>
> by this email. If you have received this message in error, please notify us
>
>
>
> immediately by reply email before deleting it from your system. Service of
>
>
>
> legal notice cannot be effected on Spicule Limited by email.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
Posted by Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>.
OK, I think Tommaso would make a great chair. Here’s a revised resolution:
WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
the public, related to statistical and other forms of machine
translation.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Joshua Project",
be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
Foundation; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Joshua Project be and hereby is
responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
related to statistical and other forms of machine translation;
and be it further
RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Joshua" be
and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
of the Apache Joshua Project, and to have primary responsibility
for management of the projects within the scope of
responsibility of the Apache Joshua Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
Apache Joshua Project:
* Tom Barber <ma...@apache.org>
* Thamme Gowda <th...@apache.org>
* Felix Hieber <fh...@apache.org>
* Lewis John McGibbney <le...@apache.org>
* Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>
* Matt Post <mj...@apache.org>
* Paul Ramirez <pr...@apache.org>
* Henry Saputra <hs...@apache.org>
* Kellen Sunderland <ke...@apache.org>
* Tommaso Teofili <to...@apache.org>
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Tommaso Teofili
be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Joshua to
serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the
Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Joshua PMC be and hereby is
tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
encourage open development and increased participation in the
Apache Joshua Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Joshua Project be and hereby
is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
Incubator Joshua podling; and be it further
RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
Incubator Joshua podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
Project are hereafter discharged.
From: Tommaso Teofili <to...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <de...@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
Date: Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 2:37 PM
To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <de...@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
that would be fine for me, unless anyone else is willing to take over.
Regards,
Tommaso
Il giorno gio 6 set 2018 alle ore 17:56 Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>
ha scritto:
Matt,
Thanks for following up here. I understand.
Tommaso, would you be interested in being the chair of the project?
Cheers,
Chris
From: Matt Post <po...@cs.jhu.edu>
Reply-To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <
dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
Date: Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 8:41 AM
To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <de...@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
Hi folks,
It is fine with me if you want to move to graduation, but at this point I
will assert that I don't have the time to contribute, and do not wish to be
involved as a committee member once that threshold is crossed. It has been
a good run and I have only fond associations with the project, but it is
time for me to move on, and I wish you all the best.
Sincerely,
Matt
On Sep 6, 2018, at 11:36 AM, Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
Coming back to this.
Sorry it took so long :/
Here is a proposed graduation template. I will call for a VOTE on it
by mid-next week once the discussion comes to consensus.
WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
the public, related to statistical and other forms of machine
translation.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Joshua Project",
be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
Foundation; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Joshua Project be and hereby is
responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
related to statistical and other forms of machine translation;
and be it further
RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Joshua" be
and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
of the Apache Joshua Project, and to have primary responsibility
for management of the projects within the scope of
responsibility of the Apache Joshua Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
Apache Joshua Project:
* Tom Barber <ma...@apache.org>
* Thamme Gowda <th...@apache.org>
* Felix Hieber <fh...@apache.org>
* Lewis John McGibbney <le...@apache.org>
* Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>
* Matt Post <mj...@apache.org>
* Paul Ramirez <pr...@apache.org>
* Henry Saputra <hs...@apache.org>
* Kellen Sunderland <ke...@apache.org>
* Tommaso Teofili <to...@apache.org>
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Matt Post
be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Joshua to
serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the
Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Joshua PMC be and hereby is
tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
encourage open development and increased participation in the
Apache Joshua Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Joshua Project be and hereby
is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
Incubator Joshua podling; and be it further
RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
Incubator Joshua podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
Project are hereafter discharged.
Cheers,
Chris
From: Thamme Gowda <tg...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <
dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
Date: Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 7:51 PM
To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <de...@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
Great news!
2018-02-01 19:48 GMT-08:00 Mattmann, Chris A (1761) <
chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>:
+1 I’ll draft the resolution and send shortly for community vote
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 1, 2018, at 7:22 PM, Tom Barber <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
I'd just like to dig this one back. Seeing how Matt accepted the
proposal and there is action from Tommaso and Lewis to get stuff merged,
it seems like there is general consensus to get Joshua out of the
incubator.
Tom
On 06/10/17 06:03, Matt Post wrote:
Thanks Tommaso. Though, I should say, initial thanks goes to Zhifei Li.
I just took it over.
I think I can stick around in the capacity Chris suggests. Thanks, all.
matt
On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Tommaso Teofili <
tommaso.teofili@gmail.com> wrote:
+1 to Chris's proposal.
Let me also add my thanks to you Matt for making Joshua happen in first
place and for bringing it to the ASF and involving me and the rest of
the
team in such an interesting piece of sw and to machine translation in
general. I do understand the need for you to move into the NMT stuff
but at
the same time I think Joshua is a very good resource (given also the so
many language packs available) for people and / or projects that want
to
start with MT having reasonably good results so I can still see its
value.
My 2 cents,
Tommaso
Il giorno mar 26 set 2017 alle ore 18:57 Chris Mattmann <
mattmann@apache.org>
ha scritto:
Thanks Matt. My feeling is that if you are willing to make you the
chair
of the project,
which is really an administrative role if you are willing and
willingness
to submit a board
report once monthly, and then quarterly after 3 months. This is to
recognize your contributions
and merit to the project, which will never expire. Even if you are not
actively developing, I think
you would make a great chair.
Apache Joshua works, has a release, and has a good community around
it of
people like Lewis,
Tommaso, and others that I think it would withstand even your
development
departure. It could
also make a good academic/learning tool and could be something we
could
focus on getting new
GSOC projects to add in the NeuralMT stuff.
If you are OK with that I think we should proceed. Let me know and
thanks.
Cheers,
Chris
On 9/25/17, 11:24 PM, "Matt Post" <po...@cs.jhu.edu> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I think now is as good time a time as any to mention my feelings
about
Joshua. You may have noticed that I haven't done much active
development
over the past year; you likely also know that the reason is that the
research community has shifted entirely from work on statistical
models to
work on neural machine translation. On the research side, neural
models now
consistently outperform phrase-based systems on BLEU score on language
pairs where there is enough data (roughly, around 15 million words of
training), and work there has injected a lot of new life into a field
that
many had felt was starting to stagnate. From a production standpoint,
neural systems are also a big win: the models do best with a GPU and
take
some time to train, but the architecture and pipeline are simpler,
and the
resulting models are constant-sized and on the order of a few
gigabytes at
most, instead of scaling with training data into the tens of
gigabytes, as
statistical systems do. Test-time inference can also be run fairly
efficiently on CPUs where throughput demands are low enough. All
commercial
systems are now neural or are quickly moving in that direction,
including
relatively surprising places like Systran, which until recently was
known
as the world's best-known rule-based system. As GPUs become more
ubiquitous
and cheap, this situation is only going to get better, even for the
end
user. There is little doubt that neural MT has supplanted statistical
approaches to machine translation, across both academic research and
industry. And it is still in its relative infancy, with lots of
interesting
research problems and engineering issues to investigate and resolve.
It's somewhat sad for me because I've been working on or with
Joshua
for almost seven years, but I also find my feelings here interesting
in
contrast to a previous time I've felt tugged away from Joshua. As
many of
you know, Philipp Koehn joined JHU a few years ago, which brought some
tension to JHU with respect to collaborating on research. There was
pressure for me to switch. Moses had a much bigger development
community
and was much more feature rich, but despite this, I was reluctant to
let go
of Joshua, for a number of reasons. Java is nicer to work with than
C++
(and not really that much slower); our code is better written, IMO;
jar
files are easier to distribute than C++ in compiled or source form;
and, of
course, I had much more familiarity with the codebase, not to mention
something of a personal stake in Joshua. But with neural MT, I have
none of
these reservations. It's nice for one to have the Moses/Joshua tension
resolved (sometimes, ignoring a problem does make it go away!), but
for all
the reasons I listed in the opening paragraph, NMT is now the clear
way to
go. And the bottom line for me is that I can no longer justify
spending
time on Joshua during my working hours, and with a young family and
other
interests that I want to pursue, I don't have time for it outside of
work.
I am happy to still linger on the project, but am unlikely to be much
of an
active participant unless I'm explicitly asked for something.
As I've written before here, I think there may still some role for
statistical systems, and therefore, for Joshua. In low-resource
situations,
StatMT may still be the right approach overall, or even simply the
best way
to quickly build up a working system. There is some promise I think in
deploying models easily on older hardware that people have, and
perhaps
getting people to hep contribute translations and translation
memories that
could be used to build and improve systems. There are surely more good
ideas in this space in the vein of providing a good tool to users.
It's been a great experience for me working with the Apache
community
on Joshua. I am grateful to Chris for convincing us to make Joshua an
Apache incubator project, which put a lot of new life into the
project.
Lewis has been a lot of help throughout helping smooth over the
transition;
Tommaso has repeatedly helped with tasks large and small; and that is
just
three of you. It's too bad therefore that the timing just didn't work
out,
but neural MT ascended very rapidly. I know there are other members
here
who are also thinking along these lines. At the same time, I hope my
departure from active development doesn’t mean the end of the project
for
those of you who wish to keep working on it.
Sincerely,
matt
Le 25 sept. 2017 à 23:10, Tommaso Teofili <tommaso.teofili@gmail.com
a écrit :
I would also think we're ready for graduation.
My only concern relates to how many of the current committers are
willing
to keep contributing to the project, basically if we have a PMC
which is
big enough for the graduation.
Regards,
Tommaso
Il giorno sab 23 set 2017 alle ore 01:21 Chris Mattmann <
mattmann@apache.org>
ha scritto:
Tom, glad you raised this issue, IMO, Joshua is ready for TLP.
We’ve:
1. Added new PPMC/committers
2. Made a release
3. Been friendly and cordial and welcoming on the lists
4. Vetted the software
5. Have some decent, emerging docs
Graduation time…Thoughts?
Cheers,
Chris
P.S. Subject line change to officially turn this into a [DISCUSS]
and
hopefully
a [VOTE]
On 9/22/17, 4:19 PM, "Tom Barber" <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
So I've not checked against the checklist on the podling page
yet, but
what
do people feel is missing from Joshua prior to graduation?
I'd like to see some non mentors ship a release so we know we've
got
the
docs right, but of course it doesn't have to be a major release.
Similarly
was all the licensing stuff resolved etc?
I'm curious as its not a very fast paced project and it feels
like ones
like Joshua could sit in the incubator for years without causing
much
trouble but also not graduating. I'm not in any great rush, but
what do
people feel about it?
Tom
--
Spicule Limited is registered in England & Wales. Company Number:
09954122. Registered office: First Floor, Telecom House, 125-135 Preston
Road, Brighton, England, BN1 6AF. VAT No. 251478891.
All engagements are subject to Spicule Terms and Conditions of Business.
This email and its contents are intended solely for the individual to whom
it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential,
privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure, distributing or copying.
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent those of Spicule Limited. The
company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted
by this email. If you have received this message in error, please notify us
immediately by reply email before deleting it from your system. Service of
legal notice cannot be effected on Spicule Limited by email.
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
Posted by Tommaso Teofili <to...@gmail.com>.
that would be fine for me, unless anyone else is willing to take over.
Regards,
Tommaso
Il giorno gio 6 set 2018 alle ore 17:56 Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>
ha scritto:
> Matt,
>
>
>
> Thanks for following up here. I understand.
>
>
>
> Tommaso, would you be interested in being the chair of the project?
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Matt Post <po...@cs.jhu.edu>
> Reply-To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <
> dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
> Date: Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 8:41 AM
> To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <de...@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
>
>
> It is fine with me if you want to move to graduation, but at this point I
> will assert that I don't have the time to contribute, and do not wish to be
> involved as a committee member once that threshold is crossed. It has been
> a good run and I have only fond associations with the project, but it is
> time for me to move on, and I wish you all the best.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2018, at 11:36 AM, Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Coming back to this.
>
> Sorry it took so long :/
>
> Here is a proposed graduation template. I will call for a VOTE on it
>
> by mid-next week once the discussion comes to consensus.
>
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>
> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>
> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>
> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>
> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
>
> the public, related to statistical and other forms of machine
>
> translation.
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>
> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Joshua Project",
>
> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>
> Foundation; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Joshua Project be and hereby is
>
> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>
> related to statistical and other forms of machine translation;
>
> and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Joshua" be
>
> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
>
> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
>
> of the Apache Joshua Project, and to have primary responsibility
>
> for management of the projects within the scope of
>
> responsibility of the Apache Joshua Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>
> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>
> Apache Joshua Project:
>
> * Tom Barber <ma...@apache.org>
>
> * Thamme Gowda <th...@apache.org>
>
> * Felix Hieber <fh...@apache.org>
>
> * Lewis John McGibbney <le...@apache.org>
>
> * Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>
>
> * Matt Post <mj...@apache.org>
>
> * Paul Ramirez <pr...@apache.org>
>
> * Henry Saputra <hs...@apache.org>
>
> * Kellen Sunderland <ke...@apache.org>
>
> * Tommaso Teofili <to...@apache.org>
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Matt Post
>
> be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Joshua to
>
> serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the
>
> Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
>
> death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
>
> or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Joshua PMC be and hereby is
>
> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>
> encourage open development and increased participation in the
>
> Apache Joshua Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Joshua Project be and hereby
>
> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
>
> Incubator Joshua podling; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>
> Incubator Joshua podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
>
> Project are hereafter discharged.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris
>
> From: Thamme Gowda <tg...@gmail.com>
>
> Reply-To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <
> dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
>
> Date: Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 7:51 PM
>
> To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <de...@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
>
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
>
> Great news!
>
> 2018-02-01 19:48 GMT-08:00 Mattmann, Chris A (1761) <
>
> chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>:
>
> +1 I’ll draft the resolution and send shortly for community vote
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 1, 2018, at 7:22 PM, Tom Barber <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I'd just like to dig this one back. Seeing how Matt accepted the
>
> proposal and there is action from Tommaso and Lewis to get stuff merged,
>
> it seems like there is general consensus to get Joshua out of the
> incubator.
>
> Tom
>
> On 06/10/17 06:03, Matt Post wrote:
>
> Thanks Tommaso. Though, I should say, initial thanks goes to Zhifei Li.
>
> I just took it over.
>
> I think I can stick around in the capacity Chris suggests. Thanks, all.
>
> matt
>
> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Tommaso Teofili <
>
> tommaso.teofili@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> +1 to Chris's proposal.
>
> Let me also add my thanks to you Matt for making Joshua happen in first
>
> place and for bringing it to the ASF and involving me and the rest of
>
> the
>
> team in such an interesting piece of sw and to machine translation in
>
> general. I do understand the need for you to move into the NMT stuff
>
> but at
>
> the same time I think Joshua is a very good resource (given also the so
>
> many language packs available) for people and / or projects that want
>
> to
>
> start with MT having reasonably good results so I can still see its
>
> value.
>
> My 2 cents,
>
> Tommaso
>
> Il giorno mar 26 set 2017 alle ore 18:57 Chris Mattmann <
>
> mattmann@apache.org>
>
> ha scritto:
>
> Thanks Matt. My feeling is that if you are willing to make you the
>
> chair
>
> of the project,
>
> which is really an administrative role if you are willing and
>
> willingness
>
> to submit a board
>
> report once monthly, and then quarterly after 3 months. This is to
>
> recognize your contributions
>
> and merit to the project, which will never expire. Even if you are not
>
> actively developing, I think
>
> you would make a great chair.
>
> Apache Joshua works, has a release, and has a good community around
>
> it of
>
> people like Lewis,
>
> Tommaso, and others that I think it would withstand even your
>
> development
>
> departure. It could
>
> also make a good academic/learning tool and could be something we
>
> could
>
> focus on getting new
>
> GSOC projects to add in the NeuralMT stuff.
>
> If you are OK with that I think we should proceed. Let me know and
>
> thanks.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris
>
> On 9/25/17, 11:24 PM, "Matt Post" <po...@cs.jhu.edu> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I think now is as good time a time as any to mention my feelings
>
> about
>
> Joshua. You may have noticed that I haven't done much active
>
> development
>
> over the past year; you likely also know that the reason is that the
>
> research community has shifted entirely from work on statistical
>
> models to
>
> work on neural machine translation. On the research side, neural
>
> models now
>
> consistently outperform phrase-based systems on BLEU score on language
>
> pairs where there is enough data (roughly, around 15 million words of
>
> training), and work there has injected a lot of new life into a field
>
> that
>
> many had felt was starting to stagnate. From a production standpoint,
>
> neural systems are also a big win: the models do best with a GPU and
>
> take
>
> some time to train, but the architecture and pipeline are simpler,
>
> and the
>
> resulting models are constant-sized and on the order of a few
>
> gigabytes at
>
> most, instead of scaling with training data into the tens of
>
> gigabytes, as
>
> statistical systems do. Test-time inference can also be run fairly
>
> efficiently on CPUs where throughput demands are low enough. All
>
> commercial
>
> systems are now neural or are quickly moving in that direction,
>
> including
>
> relatively surprising places like Systran, which until recently was
>
> known
>
> as the world's best-known rule-based system. As GPUs become more
>
> ubiquitous
>
> and cheap, this situation is only going to get better, even for the
>
> end
>
> user. There is little doubt that neural MT has supplanted statistical
>
> approaches to machine translation, across both academic research and
>
> industry. And it is still in its relative infancy, with lots of
>
> interesting
>
> research problems and engineering issues to investigate and resolve.
>
> It's somewhat sad for me because I've been working on or with
>
> Joshua
>
> for almost seven years, but I also find my feelings here interesting
>
> in
>
> contrast to a previous time I've felt tugged away from Joshua. As
>
> many of
>
> you know, Philipp Koehn joined JHU a few years ago, which brought some
>
> tension to JHU with respect to collaborating on research. There was
>
> pressure for me to switch. Moses had a much bigger development
>
> community
>
> and was much more feature rich, but despite this, I was reluctant to
>
> let go
>
> of Joshua, for a number of reasons. Java is nicer to work with than
>
> C++
>
> (and not really that much slower); our code is better written, IMO;
>
> jar
>
> files are easier to distribute than C++ in compiled or source form;
>
> and, of
>
> course, I had much more familiarity with the codebase, not to mention
>
> something of a personal stake in Joshua. But with neural MT, I have
>
> none of
>
> these reservations. It's nice for one to have the Moses/Joshua tension
>
> resolved (sometimes, ignoring a problem does make it go away!), but
>
> for all
>
> the reasons I listed in the opening paragraph, NMT is now the clear
>
> way to
>
> go. And the bottom line for me is that I can no longer justify
>
> spending
>
> time on Joshua during my working hours, and with a young family and
>
> other
>
> interests that I want to pursue, I don't have time for it outside of
>
> work.
>
> I am happy to still linger on the project, but am unlikely to be much
>
> of an
>
> active participant unless I'm explicitly asked for something.
>
> As I've written before here, I think there may still some role for
>
> statistical systems, and therefore, for Joshua. In low-resource
>
> situations,
>
> StatMT may still be the right approach overall, or even simply the
>
> best way
>
> to quickly build up a working system. There is some promise I think in
>
> deploying models easily on older hardware that people have, and
>
> perhaps
>
> getting people to hep contribute translations and translation
>
> memories that
>
> could be used to build and improve systems. There are surely more good
>
> ideas in this space in the vein of providing a good tool to users.
>
> It's been a great experience for me working with the Apache
>
> community
>
> on Joshua. I am grateful to Chris for convincing us to make Joshua an
>
> Apache incubator project, which put a lot of new life into the
>
> project.
>
> Lewis has been a lot of help throughout helping smooth over the
>
> transition;
>
> Tommaso has repeatedly helped with tasks large and small; and that is
>
> just
>
> three of you. It's too bad therefore that the timing just didn't work
>
> out,
>
> but neural MT ascended very rapidly. I know there are other members
>
> here
>
> who are also thinking along these lines. At the same time, I hope my
>
> departure from active development doesn’t mean the end of the project
>
> for
>
> those of you who wish to keep working on it.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> matt
>
> Le 25 sept. 2017 à 23:10, Tommaso Teofili <tommaso.teofili@gmail.com
>
> a écrit :
>
> I would also think we're ready for graduation.
>
> My only concern relates to how many of the current committers are
>
> willing
>
> to keep contributing to the project, basically if we have a PMC
>
> which is
>
> big enough for the graduation.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tommaso
>
> Il giorno sab 23 set 2017 alle ore 01:21 Chris Mattmann <
>
> mattmann@apache.org>
>
> ha scritto:
>
> Tom, glad you raised this issue, IMO, Joshua is ready for TLP.
>
> We’ve:
>
> 1. Added new PPMC/committers
>
> 2. Made a release
>
> 3. Been friendly and cordial and welcoming on the lists
>
> 4. Vetted the software
>
> 5. Have some decent, emerging docs
>
> Graduation time…Thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris
>
> P.S. Subject line change to officially turn this into a [DISCUSS]
>
> and
>
> hopefully
>
> a [VOTE]
>
> On 9/22/17, 4:19 PM, "Tom Barber" <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
>
> So I've not checked against the checklist on the podling page
>
> yet, but
>
> what
>
> do people feel is missing from Joshua prior to graduation?
>
> I'd like to see some non mentors ship a release so we know we've
>
> got
>
> the
>
> docs right, but of course it doesn't have to be a major release.
>
> Similarly
>
> was all the licensing stuff resolved etc?
>
> I'm curious as its not a very fast paced project and it feels
>
> like ones
>
> like Joshua could sit in the incubator for years without causing
>
> much
>
> trouble but also not graduating. I'm not in any great rush, but
>
> what do
>
> people feel about it?
>
> Tom
>
> --
>
> Spicule Limited is registered in England & Wales. Company Number:
>
> 09954122. Registered office: First Floor, Telecom House, 125-135 Preston
>
> Road, Brighton, England, BN1 6AF. VAT No. 251478891.
>
> All engagements are subject to Spicule Terms and Conditions of Business.
>
> This email and its contents are intended solely for the individual to whom
>
> it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential,
>
> privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure, distributing or copying.
>
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
>
> author and do not necessarily represent those of Spicule Limited. The
>
> company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted
>
> by this email. If you have received this message in error, please notify us
>
> immediately by reply email before deleting it from your system. Service of
>
> legal notice cannot be effected on Spicule Limited by email.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
Posted by Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>.
Matt,
Thanks for following up here. I understand.
Tommaso, would you be interested in being the chair of the project?
Cheers,
Chris
From: Matt Post <po...@cs.jhu.edu>
Reply-To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <de...@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
Date: Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 8:41 AM
To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <de...@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
Hi folks,
It is fine with me if you want to move to graduation, but at this point I will assert that I don't have the time to contribute, and do not wish to be involved as a committee member once that threshold is crossed. It has been a good run and I have only fond associations with the project, but it is time for me to move on, and I wish you all the best.
Sincerely,
Matt
On Sep 6, 2018, at 11:36 AM, Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
Coming back to this.
Sorry it took so long :/
Here is a proposed graduation template. I will call for a VOTE on it
by mid-next week once the discussion comes to consensus.
WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
the public, related to statistical and other forms of machine
translation.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Joshua Project",
be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
Foundation; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Joshua Project be and hereby is
responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
related to statistical and other forms of machine translation;
and be it further
RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Joshua" be
and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
of the Apache Joshua Project, and to have primary responsibility
for management of the projects within the scope of
responsibility of the Apache Joshua Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
Apache Joshua Project:
* Tom Barber <ma...@apache.org>
* Thamme Gowda <th...@apache.org>
* Felix Hieber <fh...@apache.org>
* Lewis John McGibbney <le...@apache.org>
* Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>
* Matt Post <mj...@apache.org>
* Paul Ramirez <pr...@apache.org>
* Henry Saputra <hs...@apache.org>
* Kellen Sunderland <ke...@apache.org>
* Tommaso Teofili <to...@apache.org>
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Matt Post
be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Joshua to
serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the
Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Joshua PMC be and hereby is
tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
encourage open development and increased participation in the
Apache Joshua Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Joshua Project be and hereby
is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
Incubator Joshua podling; and be it further
RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
Incubator Joshua podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
Project are hereafter discharged.
Cheers,
Chris
From: Thamme Gowda <tg...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <de...@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
Date: Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 7:51 PM
To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <de...@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
Great news!
2018-02-01 19:48 GMT-08:00 Mattmann, Chris A (1761) <
chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>:
+1 I’ll draft the resolution and send shortly for community vote
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 1, 2018, at 7:22 PM, Tom Barber <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
I'd just like to dig this one back. Seeing how Matt accepted the
proposal and there is action from Tommaso and Lewis to get stuff merged,
it seems like there is general consensus to get Joshua out of the incubator.
Tom
On 06/10/17 06:03, Matt Post wrote:
Thanks Tommaso. Though, I should say, initial thanks goes to Zhifei Li.
I just took it over.
I think I can stick around in the capacity Chris suggests. Thanks, all.
matt
On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Tommaso Teofili <
tommaso.teofili@gmail.com> wrote:
+1 to Chris's proposal.
Let me also add my thanks to you Matt for making Joshua happen in first
place and for bringing it to the ASF and involving me and the rest of
the
team in such an interesting piece of sw and to machine translation in
general. I do understand the need for you to move into the NMT stuff
but at
the same time I think Joshua is a very good resource (given also the so
many language packs available) for people and / or projects that want
to
start with MT having reasonably good results so I can still see its
value.
My 2 cents,
Tommaso
Il giorno mar 26 set 2017 alle ore 18:57 Chris Mattmann <
mattmann@apache.org>
ha scritto:
Thanks Matt. My feeling is that if you are willing to make you the
chair
of the project,
which is really an administrative role if you are willing and
willingness
to submit a board
report once monthly, and then quarterly after 3 months. This is to
recognize your contributions
and merit to the project, which will never expire. Even if you are not
actively developing, I think
you would make a great chair.
Apache Joshua works, has a release, and has a good community around
it of
people like Lewis,
Tommaso, and others that I think it would withstand even your
development
departure. It could
also make a good academic/learning tool and could be something we
could
focus on getting new
GSOC projects to add in the NeuralMT stuff.
If you are OK with that I think we should proceed. Let me know and
thanks.
Cheers,
Chris
On 9/25/17, 11:24 PM, "Matt Post" <po...@cs.jhu.edu> wrote:
Hi everyone,
I think now is as good time a time as any to mention my feelings
about
Joshua. You may have noticed that I haven't done much active
development
over the past year; you likely also know that the reason is that the
research community has shifted entirely from work on statistical
models to
work on neural machine translation. On the research side, neural
models now
consistently outperform phrase-based systems on BLEU score on language
pairs where there is enough data (roughly, around 15 million words of
training), and work there has injected a lot of new life into a field
that
many had felt was starting to stagnate. From a production standpoint,
neural systems are also a big win: the models do best with a GPU and
take
some time to train, but the architecture and pipeline are simpler,
and the
resulting models are constant-sized and on the order of a few
gigabytes at
most, instead of scaling with training data into the tens of
gigabytes, as
statistical systems do. Test-time inference can also be run fairly
efficiently on CPUs where throughput demands are low enough. All
commercial
systems are now neural or are quickly moving in that direction,
including
relatively surprising places like Systran, which until recently was
known
as the world's best-known rule-based system. As GPUs become more
ubiquitous
and cheap, this situation is only going to get better, even for the
end
user. There is little doubt that neural MT has supplanted statistical
approaches to machine translation, across both academic research and
industry. And it is still in its relative infancy, with lots of
interesting
research problems and engineering issues to investigate and resolve.
It's somewhat sad for me because I've been working on or with
Joshua
for almost seven years, but I also find my feelings here interesting
in
contrast to a previous time I've felt tugged away from Joshua. As
many of
you know, Philipp Koehn joined JHU a few years ago, which brought some
tension to JHU with respect to collaborating on research. There was
pressure for me to switch. Moses had a much bigger development
community
and was much more feature rich, but despite this, I was reluctant to
let go
of Joshua, for a number of reasons. Java is nicer to work with than
C++
(and not really that much slower); our code is better written, IMO;
jar
files are easier to distribute than C++ in compiled or source form;
and, of
course, I had much more familiarity with the codebase, not to mention
something of a personal stake in Joshua. But with neural MT, I have
none of
these reservations. It's nice for one to have the Moses/Joshua tension
resolved (sometimes, ignoring a problem does make it go away!), but
for all
the reasons I listed in the opening paragraph, NMT is now the clear
way to
go. And the bottom line for me is that I can no longer justify
spending
time on Joshua during my working hours, and with a young family and
other
interests that I want to pursue, I don't have time for it outside of
work.
I am happy to still linger on the project, but am unlikely to be much
of an
active participant unless I'm explicitly asked for something.
As I've written before here, I think there may still some role for
statistical systems, and therefore, for Joshua. In low-resource
situations,
StatMT may still be the right approach overall, or even simply the
best way
to quickly build up a working system. There is some promise I think in
deploying models easily on older hardware that people have, and
perhaps
getting people to hep contribute translations and translation
memories that
could be used to build and improve systems. There are surely more good
ideas in this space in the vein of providing a good tool to users.
It's been a great experience for me working with the Apache
community
on Joshua. I am grateful to Chris for convincing us to make Joshua an
Apache incubator project, which put a lot of new life into the
project.
Lewis has been a lot of help throughout helping smooth over the
transition;
Tommaso has repeatedly helped with tasks large and small; and that is
just
three of you. It's too bad therefore that the timing just didn't work
out,
but neural MT ascended very rapidly. I know there are other members
here
who are also thinking along these lines. At the same time, I hope my
departure from active development doesn’t mean the end of the project
for
those of you who wish to keep working on it.
Sincerely,
matt
Le 25 sept. 2017 à 23:10, Tommaso Teofili <tommaso.teofili@gmail.com
a écrit :
I would also think we're ready for graduation.
My only concern relates to how many of the current committers are
willing
to keep contributing to the project, basically if we have a PMC
which is
big enough for the graduation.
Regards,
Tommaso
Il giorno sab 23 set 2017 alle ore 01:21 Chris Mattmann <
mattmann@apache.org>
ha scritto:
Tom, glad you raised this issue, IMO, Joshua is ready for TLP.
We’ve:
1. Added new PPMC/committers
2. Made a release
3. Been friendly and cordial and welcoming on the lists
4. Vetted the software
5. Have some decent, emerging docs
Graduation time…Thoughts?
Cheers,
Chris
P.S. Subject line change to officially turn this into a [DISCUSS]
and
hopefully
a [VOTE]
On 9/22/17, 4:19 PM, "Tom Barber" <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
So I've not checked against the checklist on the podling page
yet, but
what
do people feel is missing from Joshua prior to graduation?
I'd like to see some non mentors ship a release so we know we've
got
the
docs right, but of course it doesn't have to be a major release.
Similarly
was all the licensing stuff resolved etc?
I'm curious as its not a very fast paced project and it feels
like ones
like Joshua could sit in the incubator for years without causing
much
trouble but also not graduating. I'm not in any great rush, but
what do
people feel about it?
Tom
--
Spicule Limited is registered in England & Wales. Company Number:
09954122. Registered office: First Floor, Telecom House, 125-135 Preston
Road, Brighton, England, BN1 6AF. VAT No. 251478891.
All engagements are subject to Spicule Terms and Conditions of Business.
This email and its contents are intended solely for the individual to whom
it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential,
privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure, distributing or copying.
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent those of Spicule Limited. The
company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted
by this email. If you have received this message in error, please notify us
immediately by reply email before deleting it from your system. Service of
legal notice cannot be effected on Spicule Limited by email.
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
Posted by Matt Post <po...@cs.jhu.edu>.
Hi folks,
It is fine with me if you want to move to graduation, but at this point I will assert that I don't have the time to contribute, and do not wish to be involved as a committee member once that threshold is crossed. It has been a good run and I have only fond associations with the project, but it is time for me to move on, and I wish you all the best.
Sincerely,
Matt
> On Sep 6, 2018, at 11:36 AM, Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Coming back to this.
>
>
>
> Sorry it took so long :/
>
>
>
> Here is a proposed graduation template. I will call for a VOTE on it
> by mid-next week once the discussion comes to consensus.
>
>
>
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>
> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>
> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>
> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>
> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
>
> the public, related to statistical and other forms of machine
> translation.
>
>
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>
> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Joshua Project",
>
> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>
> Foundation; and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Joshua Project be and hereby is
>
> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>
> related to statistical and other forms of machine translation;
>
> and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Joshua" be
>
> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
>
> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
>
> of the Apache Joshua Project, and to have primary responsibility
>
> for management of the projects within the scope of
>
> responsibility of the Apache Joshua Project; and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>
> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>
> Apache Joshua Project:
>
>
>
> * Tom Barber <ma...@apache.org>
>
> * Thamme Gowda <th...@apache.org>
>
> * Felix Hieber <fh...@apache.org>
>
> * Lewis John McGibbney <le...@apache.org>
>
> * Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>
>
> * Matt Post <mj...@apache.org>
>
> * Paul Ramirez <pr...@apache.org>
>
> * Henry Saputra <hs...@apache.org>
>
> * Kellen Sunderland <ke...@apache.org>
>
> * Tommaso Teofili <to...@apache.org>
>
>
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Matt Post
>
> be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Joshua to
>
> serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the
>
> Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
>
> death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
>
> or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Joshua PMC be and hereby is
>
> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>
> encourage open development and increased participation in the
>
> Apache Joshua Project; and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Joshua Project be and hereby
>
> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
>
> Incubator Joshua podling; and be it further
>
>
>
> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>
> Incubator Joshua podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
>
> Project are hereafter discharged.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Thamme Gowda <tg...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <de...@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
> Date: Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 7:51 PM
> To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <de...@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
>
>
>
> Great news!
>
>
>
> 2018-02-01 19:48 GMT-08:00 Mattmann, Chris A (1761) <
>
> chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>:
>
>
>
> +1 I’ll draft the resolution and send shortly for community vote
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>> On Feb 1, 2018, at 7:22 PM, Tom Barber <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>
>> I'd just like to dig this one back. Seeing how Matt accepted the
>
> proposal and there is action from Tommaso and Lewis to get stuff merged,
>
> it seems like there is general consensus to get Joshua out of the incubator.
>
>>
>
>> Tom
>
>>
>
>>> On 06/10/17 06:03, Matt Post wrote:
>
>>> Thanks Tommaso. Though, I should say, initial thanks goes to Zhifei Li.
>
> I just took it over.
>
>>>
>
>>> I think I can stick around in the capacity Chris suggests. Thanks, all.
>
>>>
>
>>> matt
>
>>>
>
>>>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Tommaso Teofili <
>
> tommaso.teofili@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>
>
>>>> +1 to Chris's proposal.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Let me also add my thanks to you Matt for making Joshua happen in first
>
>>>> place and for bringing it to the ASF and involving me and the rest of
>
> the
>
>>>> team in such an interesting piece of sw and to machine translation in
>
>>>> general. I do understand the need for you to move into the NMT stuff
>
> but at
>
>>>> the same time I think Joshua is a very good resource (given also the so
>
>>>> many language packs available) for people and / or projects that want
>
> to
>
>>>> start with MT having reasonably good results so I can still see its
>
> value.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> My 2 cents,
>
>>>> Tommaso
>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Il giorno mar 26 set 2017 alle ore 18:57 Chris Mattmann <
>
> mattmann@apache.org>
>
>>>> ha scritto:
>
>>>>
>
>>>>> Thanks Matt. My feeling is that if you are willing to make you the
>
> chair
>
>>>>> of the project,
>
>>>>> which is really an administrative role if you are willing and
>
> willingness
>
>>>>> to submit a board
>
>>>>> report once monthly, and then quarterly after 3 months. This is to
>
>>>>> recognize your contributions
>
>>>>> and merit to the project, which will never expire. Even if you are not
>
>>>>> actively developing, I think
>
>>>>> you would make a great chair.
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>> Apache Joshua works, has a release, and has a good community around
>
> it of
>
>>>>> people like Lewis,
>
>>>>> Tommaso, and others that I think it would withstand even your
>
> development
>
>>>>> departure. It could
>
>>>>> also make a good academic/learning tool and could be something we
>
> could
>
>>>>> focus on getting new
>
>>>>> GSOC projects to add in the NeuralMT stuff.
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>> If you are OK with that I think we should proceed. Let me know and
>
> thanks.
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>> Cheers,
>
>>>>> Chris
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>> On 9/25/17, 11:24 PM, "Matt Post" <po...@cs.jhu.edu> wrote:
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>> I think now is as good time a time as any to mention my feelings
>
> about
>
>>>>> Joshua. You may have noticed that I haven't done much active
>
> development
>
>>>>> over the past year; you likely also know that the reason is that the
>
>>>>> research community has shifted entirely from work on statistical
>
> models to
>
>>>>> work on neural machine translation. On the research side, neural
>
> models now
>
>>>>> consistently outperform phrase-based systems on BLEU score on language
>
>>>>> pairs where there is enough data (roughly, around 15 million words of
>
>>>>> training), and work there has injected a lot of new life into a field
>
> that
>
>>>>> many had felt was starting to stagnate. From a production standpoint,
>
>>>>> neural systems are also a big win: the models do best with a GPU and
>
> take
>
>>>>> some time to train, but the architecture and pipeline are simpler,
>
> and the
>
>>>>> resulting models are constant-sized and on the order of a few
>
> gigabytes at
>
>>>>> most, instead of scaling with training data into the tens of
>
> gigabytes, as
>
>>>>> statistical systems do. Test-time inference can also be run fairly
>
>>>>> efficiently on CPUs where throughput demands are low enough. All
>
> commercial
>
>>>>> systems are now neural or are quickly moving in that direction,
>
> including
>
>>>>> relatively surprising places like Systran, which until recently was
>
> known
>
>>>>> as the world's best-known rule-based system. As GPUs become more
>
> ubiquitous
>
>>>>> and cheap, this situation is only going to get better, even for the
>
> end
>
>>>>> user. There is little doubt that neural MT has supplanted statistical
>
>>>>> approaches to machine translation, across both academic research and
>
>>>>> industry. And it is still in its relative infancy, with lots of
>
> interesting
>
>>>>> research problems and engineering issues to investigate and resolve.
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>> It's somewhat sad for me because I've been working on or with
>
> Joshua
>
>>>>> for almost seven years, but I also find my feelings here interesting
>
> in
>
>>>>> contrast to a previous time I've felt tugged away from Joshua. As
>
> many of
>
>>>>> you know, Philipp Koehn joined JHU a few years ago, which brought some
>
>>>>> tension to JHU with respect to collaborating on research. There was
>
>>>>> pressure for me to switch. Moses had a much bigger development
>
> community
>
>>>>> and was much more feature rich, but despite this, I was reluctant to
>
> let go
>
>>>>> of Joshua, for a number of reasons. Java is nicer to work with than
>
> C++
>
>>>>> (and not really that much slower); our code is better written, IMO;
>
> jar
>
>>>>> files are easier to distribute than C++ in compiled or source form;
>
> and, of
>
>>>>> course, I had much more familiarity with the codebase, not to mention
>
>>>>> something of a personal stake in Joshua. But with neural MT, I have
>
> none of
>
>>>>> these reservations. It's nice for one to have the Moses/Joshua tension
>
>>>>> resolved (sometimes, ignoring a problem does make it go away!), but
>
> for all
>
>>>>> the reasons I listed in the opening paragraph, NMT is now the clear
>
> way to
>
>>>>> go. And the bottom line for me is that I can no longer justify
>
> spending
>
>>>>> time on Joshua during my working hours, and with a young family and
>
> other
>
>>>>> interests that I want to pursue, I don't have time for it outside of
>
> work.
>
>>>>> I am happy to still linger on the project, but am unlikely to be much
>
> of an
>
>>>>> active participant unless I'm explicitly asked for something.
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>> As I've written before here, I think there may still some role for
>
>>>>> statistical systems, and therefore, for Joshua. In low-resource
>
> situations,
>
>>>>> StatMT may still be the right approach overall, or even simply the
>
> best way
>
>>>>> to quickly build up a working system. There is some promise I think in
>
>>>>> deploying models easily on older hardware that people have, and
>
> perhaps
>
>>>>> getting people to hep contribute translations and translation
>
> memories that
>
>>>>> could be used to build and improve systems. There are surely more good
>
>>>>> ideas in this space in the vein of providing a good tool to users.
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>> It's been a great experience for me working with the Apache
>
> community
>
>>>>> on Joshua. I am grateful to Chris for convincing us to make Joshua an
>
>>>>> Apache incubator project, which put a lot of new life into the
>
> project.
>
>>>>> Lewis has been a lot of help throughout helping smooth over the
>
> transition;
>
>>>>> Tommaso has repeatedly helped with tasks large and small; and that is
>
> just
>
>>>>> three of you. It's too bad therefore that the timing just didn't work
>
> out,
>
>>>>> but neural MT ascended very rapidly. I know there are other members
>
> here
>
>>>>> who are also thinking along these lines. At the same time, I hope my
>
>>>>> departure from active development doesn’t mean the end of the project
>
> for
>
>>>>> those of you who wish to keep working on it.
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>
>>>>> matt
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>>> Le 25 sept. 2017 à 23:10, Tommaso Teofili <tommaso.teofili@gmail.com
>
>>
>
>>>>> a écrit :
>
>>>>>> I would also think we're ready for graduation.
>
>>>>>> My only concern relates to how many of the current committers are
>
>>>>> willing
>
>>>>>> to keep contributing to the project, basically if we have a PMC
>
>>>>> which is
>
>>>>>> big enough for the graduation.
>
>>>>>>
>
>>>>>> Regards,
>
>>>>>> Tommaso
>
>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>
>
>>>>>> Il giorno sab 23 set 2017 alle ore 01:21 Chris Mattmann <
>
>>>>> mattmann@apache.org>
>
>>>>>> ha scritto:
>
>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>> Tom, glad you raised this issue, IMO, Joshua is ready for TLP.
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>> We’ve:
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>> 1. Added new PPMC/committers
>
>>>>>>> 2. Made a release
>
>>>>>>> 3. Been friendly and cordial and welcoming on the lists
>
>>>>>>> 4. Vetted the software
>
>>>>>>> 5. Have some decent, emerging docs
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>> Graduation time…Thoughts?
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>
>>>>>>> Chris
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>> P.S. Subject line change to officially turn this into a [DISCUSS]
>
>>>>> and
>
>>>>>>> hopefully
>
>>>>>>> a [VOTE]
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>> On 9/22/17, 4:19 PM, "Tom Barber" <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>> So I've not checked against the checklist on the podling page
>
>>>>> yet, but
>
>>>>>>> what
>
>>>>>>> do people feel is missing from Joshua prior to graduation?
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>> I'd like to see some non mentors ship a release so we know we've
>
>>>>> got
>
>>>>>>> the
>
>>>>>>> docs right, but of course it doesn't have to be a major release.
>
>>>>>>> Similarly
>
>>>>>>> was all the licensing stuff resolved etc?
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>> I'm curious as its not a very fast paced project and it feels
>
>>>>> like ones
>
>>>>>>> like Joshua could sit in the incubator for years without causing
>
>>>>> much
>
>>>>>>> trouble but also not graduating. I'm not in any great rush, but
>
>>>>> what do
>
>>>>>>> people feel about it?
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>> Tom
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> --
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Spicule Limited is registered in England & Wales. Company Number:
>
> 09954122. Registered office: First Floor, Telecom House, 125-135 Preston
>
> Road, Brighton, England, BN1 6AF. VAT No. 251478891.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> All engagements are subject to Spicule Terms and Conditions of Business.
>
> This email and its contents are intended solely for the individual to whom
>
> it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential,
>
> privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure, distributing or copying.
>
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
>
> author and do not necessarily represent those of Spicule Limited. The
>
> company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted
>
> by this email. If you have received this message in error, please notify us
>
> immediately by reply email before deleting it from your system. Service of
>
> legal notice cannot be effected on Spicule Limited by email.
>
>
>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
Posted by Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>.
Coming back to this.
Sorry it took so long :/
Here is a proposed graduation template. I will call for a VOTE on it
by mid-next week once the discussion comes to consensus.
WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
the public, related to statistical and other forms of machine
translation.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Joshua Project",
be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
Foundation; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Joshua Project be and hereby is
responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
related to statistical and other forms of machine translation;
and be it further
RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Joshua" be
and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
of the Apache Joshua Project, and to have primary responsibility
for management of the projects within the scope of
responsibility of the Apache Joshua Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
Apache Joshua Project:
* Tom Barber <ma...@apache.org>
* Thamme Gowda <th...@apache.org>
* Felix Hieber <fh...@apache.org>
* Lewis John McGibbney <le...@apache.org>
* Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>
* Matt Post <mj...@apache.org>
* Paul Ramirez <pr...@apache.org>
* Henry Saputra <hs...@apache.org>
* Kellen Sunderland <ke...@apache.org>
* Tommaso Teofili <to...@apache.org>
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Matt Post
be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Joshua to
serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the
Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Joshua PMC be and hereby is
tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
encourage open development and increased participation in the
Apache Joshua Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Joshua Project be and hereby
is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
Incubator Joshua podling; and be it further
RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
Incubator Joshua podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
Project are hereafter discharged.
Cheers,
Chris
From: Thamme Gowda <tg...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <de...@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
Date: Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 7:51 PM
To: "dev@joshua.incubator.apache.org" <de...@joshua.incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
Great news!
2018-02-01 19:48 GMT-08:00 Mattmann, Chris A (1761) <
chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>:
+1 I’ll draft the resolution and send shortly for community vote
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 1, 2018, at 7:22 PM, Tom Barber <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I'd just like to dig this one back. Seeing how Matt accepted the
proposal and there is action from Tommaso and Lewis to get stuff merged,
it seems like there is general consensus to get Joshua out of the incubator.
>
> Tom
>
>> On 06/10/17 06:03, Matt Post wrote:
>> Thanks Tommaso. Though, I should say, initial thanks goes to Zhifei Li.
I just took it over.
>>
>> I think I can stick around in the capacity Chris suggests. Thanks, all.
>>
>> matt
>>
>>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Tommaso Teofili <
tommaso.teofili@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1 to Chris's proposal.
>>>
>>> Let me also add my thanks to you Matt for making Joshua happen in first
>>> place and for bringing it to the ASF and involving me and the rest of
the
>>> team in such an interesting piece of sw and to machine translation in
>>> general. I do understand the need for you to move into the NMT stuff
but at
>>> the same time I think Joshua is a very good resource (given also the so
>>> many language packs available) for people and / or projects that want
to
>>> start with MT having reasonably good results so I can still see its
value.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents,
>>> Tommaso
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Il giorno mar 26 set 2017 alle ore 18:57 Chris Mattmann <
mattmann@apache.org>
>>> ha scritto:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Matt. My feeling is that if you are willing to make you the
chair
>>>> of the project,
>>>> which is really an administrative role if you are willing and
willingness
>>>> to submit a board
>>>> report once monthly, and then quarterly after 3 months. This is to
>>>> recognize your contributions
>>>> and merit to the project, which will never expire. Even if you are not
>>>> actively developing, I think
>>>> you would make a great chair.
>>>>
>>>> Apache Joshua works, has a release, and has a good community around
it of
>>>> people like Lewis,
>>>> Tommaso, and others that I think it would withstand even your
development
>>>> departure. It could
>>>> also make a good academic/learning tool and could be something we
could
>>>> focus on getting new
>>>> GSOC projects to add in the NeuralMT stuff.
>>>>
>>>> If you are OK with that I think we should proceed. Let me know and
thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/25/17, 11:24 PM, "Matt Post" <po...@cs.jhu.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I think now is as good time a time as any to mention my feelings
about
>>>> Joshua. You may have noticed that I haven't done much active
development
>>>> over the past year; you likely also know that the reason is that the
>>>> research community has shifted entirely from work on statistical
models to
>>>> work on neural machine translation. On the research side, neural
models now
>>>> consistently outperform phrase-based systems on BLEU score on language
>>>> pairs where there is enough data (roughly, around 15 million words of
>>>> training), and work there has injected a lot of new life into a field
that
>>>> many had felt was starting to stagnate. From a production standpoint,
>>>> neural systems are also a big win: the models do best with a GPU and
take
>>>> some time to train, but the architecture and pipeline are simpler,
and the
>>>> resulting models are constant-sized and on the order of a few
gigabytes at
>>>> most, instead of scaling with training data into the tens of
gigabytes, as
>>>> statistical systems do. Test-time inference can also be run fairly
>>>> efficiently on CPUs where throughput demands are low enough. All
commercial
>>>> systems are now neural or are quickly moving in that direction,
including
>>>> relatively surprising places like Systran, which until recently was
known
>>>> as the world's best-known rule-based system. As GPUs become more
ubiquitous
>>>> and cheap, this situation is only going to get better, even for the
end
>>>> user. There is little doubt that neural MT has supplanted statistical
>>>> approaches to machine translation, across both academic research and
>>>> industry. And it is still in its relative infancy, with lots of
interesting
>>>> research problems and engineering issues to investigate and resolve.
>>>>
>>>> It's somewhat sad for me because I've been working on or with
Joshua
>>>> for almost seven years, but I also find my feelings here interesting
in
>>>> contrast to a previous time I've felt tugged away from Joshua. As
many of
>>>> you know, Philipp Koehn joined JHU a few years ago, which brought some
>>>> tension to JHU with respect to collaborating on research. There was
>>>> pressure for me to switch. Moses had a much bigger development
community
>>>> and was much more feature rich, but despite this, I was reluctant to
let go
>>>> of Joshua, for a number of reasons. Java is nicer to work with than
C++
>>>> (and not really that much slower); our code is better written, IMO;
jar
>>>> files are easier to distribute than C++ in compiled or source form;
and, of
>>>> course, I had much more familiarity with the codebase, not to mention
>>>> something of a personal stake in Joshua. But with neural MT, I have
none of
>>>> these reservations. It's nice for one to have the Moses/Joshua tension
>>>> resolved (sometimes, ignoring a problem does make it go away!), but
for all
>>>> the reasons I listed in the opening paragraph, NMT is now the clear
way to
>>>> go. And the bottom line for me is that I can no longer justify
spending
>>>> time on Joshua during my working hours, and with a young family and
other
>>>> interests that I want to pursue, I don't have time for it outside of
work.
>>>> I am happy to still linger on the project, but am unlikely to be much
of an
>>>> active participant unless I'm explicitly asked for something.
>>>>
>>>> As I've written before here, I think there may still some role for
>>>> statistical systems, and therefore, for Joshua. In low-resource
situations,
>>>> StatMT may still be the right approach overall, or even simply the
best way
>>>> to quickly build up a working system. There is some promise I think in
>>>> deploying models easily on older hardware that people have, and
perhaps
>>>> getting people to hep contribute translations and translation
memories that
>>>> could be used to build and improve systems. There are surely more good
>>>> ideas in this space in the vein of providing a good tool to users.
>>>>
>>>> It's been a great experience for me working with the Apache
community
>>>> on Joshua. I am grateful to Chris for convincing us to make Joshua an
>>>> Apache incubator project, which put a lot of new life into the
project.
>>>> Lewis has been a lot of help throughout helping smooth over the
transition;
>>>> Tommaso has repeatedly helped with tasks large and small; and that is
just
>>>> three of you. It's too bad therefore that the timing just didn't work
out,
>>>> but neural MT ascended very rapidly. I know there are other members
here
>>>> who are also thinking along these lines. At the same time, I hope my
>>>> departure from active development doesn’t mean the end of the project
for
>>>> those of you who wish to keep working on it.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> matt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Le 25 sept. 2017 à 23:10, Tommaso Teofili <tommaso.teofili@gmail.com
>
>>>> a écrit :
>>>>> I would also think we're ready for graduation.
>>>>> My only concern relates to how many of the current committers are
>>>> willing
>>>>> to keep contributing to the project, basically if we have a PMC
>>>> which is
>>>>> big enough for the graduation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Tommaso
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Il giorno sab 23 set 2017 alle ore 01:21 Chris Mattmann <
>>>> mattmann@apache.org>
>>>>> ha scritto:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom, glad you raised this issue, IMO, Joshua is ready for TLP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We’ve:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Added new PPMC/committers
>>>>>> 2. Made a release
>>>>>> 3. Been friendly and cordial and welcoming on the lists
>>>>>> 4. Vetted the software
>>>>>> 5. Have some decent, emerging docs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Graduation time…Thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> P.S. Subject line change to officially turn this into a [DISCUSS]
>>>> and
>>>>>> hopefully
>>>>>> a [VOTE]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/22/17, 4:19 PM, "Tom Barber" <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I've not checked against the checklist on the podling page
>>>> yet, but
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> do people feel is missing from Joshua prior to graduation?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like to see some non mentors ship a release so we know we've
>>>> got
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> docs right, but of course it doesn't have to be a major release.
>>>>>> Similarly
>>>>>> was all the licensing stuff resolved etc?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm curious as its not a very fast paced project and it feels
>>>> like ones
>>>>>> like Joshua could sit in the incubator for years without causing
>>>> much
>>>>>> trouble but also not graduating. I'm not in any great rush, but
>>>> what do
>>>>>> people feel about it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Spicule Limited is registered in England & Wales. Company Number:
09954122. Registered office: First Floor, Telecom House, 125-135 Preston
Road, Brighton, England, BN1 6AF. VAT No. 251478891.
>
>
> All engagements are subject to Spicule Terms and Conditions of Business.
This email and its contents are intended solely for the individual to whom
it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential,
privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure, distributing or copying.
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent those of Spicule Limited. The
company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted
by this email. If you have received this message in error, please notify us
immediately by reply email before deleting it from your system. Service of
legal notice cannot be effected on Spicule Limited by email.
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
Posted by Thamme Gowda <tg...@gmail.com>.
Great news!
2018-02-01 19:48 GMT-08:00 Mattmann, Chris A (1761) <
chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>:
> +1 I’ll draft the resolution and send shortly for community vote
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 1, 2018, at 7:22 PM, Tom Barber <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > I'd just like to dig this one back. Seeing how Matt accepted the
> proposal and there is action from Tommaso and Lewis to get stuff merged,
> it seems like there is general consensus to get Joshua out of the incubator.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >> On 06/10/17 06:03, Matt Post wrote:
> >> Thanks Tommaso. Though, I should say, initial thanks goes to Zhifei Li.
> I just took it over.
> >>
> >> I think I can stick around in the capacity Chris suggests. Thanks, all.
> >>
> >> matt
> >>
> >>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Tommaso Teofili <
> tommaso.teofili@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> +1 to Chris's proposal.
> >>>
> >>> Let me also add my thanks to you Matt for making Joshua happen in first
> >>> place and for bringing it to the ASF and involving me and the rest of
> the
> >>> team in such an interesting piece of sw and to machine translation in
> >>> general. I do understand the need for you to move into the NMT stuff
> but at
> >>> the same time I think Joshua is a very good resource (given also the so
> >>> many language packs available) for people and / or projects that want
> to
> >>> start with MT having reasonably good results so I can still see its
> value.
> >>>
> >>> My 2 cents,
> >>> Tommaso
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Il giorno mar 26 set 2017 alle ore 18:57 Chris Mattmann <
> mattmann@apache.org>
> >>> ha scritto:
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks Matt. My feeling is that if you are willing to make you the
> chair
> >>>> of the project,
> >>>> which is really an administrative role if you are willing and
> willingness
> >>>> to submit a board
> >>>> report once monthly, and then quarterly after 3 months. This is to
> >>>> recognize your contributions
> >>>> and merit to the project, which will never expire. Even if you are not
> >>>> actively developing, I think
> >>>> you would make a great chair.
> >>>>
> >>>> Apache Joshua works, has a release, and has a good community around
> it of
> >>>> people like Lewis,
> >>>> Tommaso, and others that I think it would withstand even your
> development
> >>>> departure. It could
> >>>> also make a good academic/learning tool and could be something we
> could
> >>>> focus on getting new
> >>>> GSOC projects to add in the NeuralMT stuff.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you are OK with that I think we should proceed. Let me know and
> thanks.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> Chris
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 9/25/17, 11:24 PM, "Matt Post" <po...@cs.jhu.edu> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi everyone,
> >>>>
> >>>> I think now is as good time a time as any to mention my feelings
> about
> >>>> Joshua. You may have noticed that I haven't done much active
> development
> >>>> over the past year; you likely also know that the reason is that the
> >>>> research community has shifted entirely from work on statistical
> models to
> >>>> work on neural machine translation. On the research side, neural
> models now
> >>>> consistently outperform phrase-based systems on BLEU score on language
> >>>> pairs where there is enough data (roughly, around 15 million words of
> >>>> training), and work there has injected a lot of new life into a field
> that
> >>>> many had felt was starting to stagnate. From a production standpoint,
> >>>> neural systems are also a big win: the models do best with a GPU and
> take
> >>>> some time to train, but the architecture and pipeline are simpler,
> and the
> >>>> resulting models are constant-sized and on the order of a few
> gigabytes at
> >>>> most, instead of scaling with training data into the tens of
> gigabytes, as
> >>>> statistical systems do. Test-time inference can also be run fairly
> >>>> efficiently on CPUs where throughput demands are low enough. All
> commercial
> >>>> systems are now neural or are quickly moving in that direction,
> including
> >>>> relatively surprising places like Systran, which until recently was
> known
> >>>> as the world's best-known rule-based system. As GPUs become more
> ubiquitous
> >>>> and cheap, this situation is only going to get better, even for the
> end
> >>>> user. There is little doubt that neural MT has supplanted statistical
> >>>> approaches to machine translation, across both academic research and
> >>>> industry. And it is still in its relative infancy, with lots of
> interesting
> >>>> research problems and engineering issues to investigate and resolve.
> >>>>
> >>>> It's somewhat sad for me because I've been working on or with
> Joshua
> >>>> for almost seven years, but I also find my feelings here interesting
> in
> >>>> contrast to a previous time I've felt tugged away from Joshua. As
> many of
> >>>> you know, Philipp Koehn joined JHU a few years ago, which brought some
> >>>> tension to JHU with respect to collaborating on research. There was
> >>>> pressure for me to switch. Moses had a much bigger development
> community
> >>>> and was much more feature rich, but despite this, I was reluctant to
> let go
> >>>> of Joshua, for a number of reasons. Java is nicer to work with than
> C++
> >>>> (and not really that much slower); our code is better written, IMO;
> jar
> >>>> files are easier to distribute than C++ in compiled or source form;
> and, of
> >>>> course, I had much more familiarity with the codebase, not to mention
> >>>> something of a personal stake in Joshua. But with neural MT, I have
> none of
> >>>> these reservations. It's nice for one to have the Moses/Joshua tension
> >>>> resolved (sometimes, ignoring a problem does make it go away!), but
> for all
> >>>> the reasons I listed in the opening paragraph, NMT is now the clear
> way to
> >>>> go. And the bottom line for me is that I can no longer justify
> spending
> >>>> time on Joshua during my working hours, and with a young family and
> other
> >>>> interests that I want to pursue, I don't have time for it outside of
> work.
> >>>> I am happy to still linger on the project, but am unlikely to be much
> of an
> >>>> active participant unless I'm explicitly asked for something.
> >>>>
> >>>> As I've written before here, I think there may still some role for
> >>>> statistical systems, and therefore, for Joshua. In low-resource
> situations,
> >>>> StatMT may still be the right approach overall, or even simply the
> best way
> >>>> to quickly build up a working system. There is some promise I think in
> >>>> deploying models easily on older hardware that people have, and
> perhaps
> >>>> getting people to hep contribute translations and translation
> memories that
> >>>> could be used to build and improve systems. There are surely more good
> >>>> ideas in this space in the vein of providing a good tool to users.
> >>>>
> >>>> It's been a great experience for me working with the Apache
> community
> >>>> on Joshua. I am grateful to Chris for convincing us to make Joshua an
> >>>> Apache incubator project, which put a lot of new life into the
> project.
> >>>> Lewis has been a lot of help throughout helping smooth over the
> transition;
> >>>> Tommaso has repeatedly helped with tasks large and small; and that is
> just
> >>>> three of you. It's too bad therefore that the timing just didn't work
> out,
> >>>> but neural MT ascended very rapidly. I know there are other members
> here
> >>>> who are also thinking along these lines. At the same time, I hope my
> >>>> departure from active development doesn’t mean the end of the project
> for
> >>>> those of you who wish to keep working on it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sincerely,
> >>>> matt
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Le 25 sept. 2017 à 23:10, Tommaso Teofili <tommaso.teofili@gmail.com
> >
> >>>> a écrit :
> >>>>> I would also think we're ready for graduation.
> >>>>> My only concern relates to how many of the current committers are
> >>>> willing
> >>>>> to keep contributing to the project, basically if we have a PMC
> >>>> which is
> >>>>> big enough for the graduation.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>> Tommaso
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Il giorno sab 23 set 2017 alle ore 01:21 Chris Mattmann <
> >>>> mattmann@apache.org>
> >>>>> ha scritto:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Tom, glad you raised this issue, IMO, Joshua is ready for TLP.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We’ve:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1. Added new PPMC/committers
> >>>>>> 2. Made a release
> >>>>>> 3. Been friendly and cordial and welcoming on the lists
> >>>>>> 4. Vetted the software
> >>>>>> 5. Have some decent, emerging docs
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Graduation time…Thoughts?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>> Chris
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> P.S. Subject line change to officially turn this into a [DISCUSS]
> >>>> and
> >>>>>> hopefully
> >>>>>> a [VOTE]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 9/22/17, 4:19 PM, "Tom Barber" <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So I've not checked against the checklist on the podling page
> >>>> yet, but
> >>>>>> what
> >>>>>> do people feel is missing from Joshua prior to graduation?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'd like to see some non mentors ship a release so we know we've
> >>>> got
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> docs right, but of course it doesn't have to be a major release.
> >>>>>> Similarly
> >>>>>> was all the licensing stuff resolved etc?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm curious as its not a very fast paced project and it feels
> >>>> like ones
> >>>>>> like Joshua could sit in the incubator for years without causing
> >>>> much
> >>>>>> trouble but also not graduating. I'm not in any great rush, but
> >>>> what do
> >>>>>> people feel about it?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Tom
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Spicule Limited is registered in England & Wales. Company Number:
> 09954122. Registered office: First Floor, Telecom House, 125-135 Preston
> Road, Brighton, England, BN1 6AF. VAT No. 251478891.
> >
> >
> > All engagements are subject to Spicule Terms and Conditions of Business.
> This email and its contents are intended solely for the individual to whom
> it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential,
> privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure, distributing or copying.
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
> author and do not necessarily represent those of Spicule Limited. The
> company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted
> by this email. If you have received this message in error, please notify us
> immediately by reply email before deleting it from your system. Service of
> legal notice cannot be effected on Spicule Limited by email.
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation (was Re: Path to TLP)
Posted by "Mattmann, Chris A (1761)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>.
+1 I’ll draft the resolution and send shortly for community vote
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 1, 2018, at 7:22 PM, Tom Barber <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I'd just like to dig this one back. Seeing how Matt accepted the proposal and there is action from Tommaso and Lewis to get stuff merged, it seems like there is general consensus to get Joshua out of the incubator.
>
> Tom
>
>> On 06/10/17 06:03, Matt Post wrote:
>> Thanks Tommaso. Though, I should say, initial thanks goes to Zhifei Li. I just took it over.
>>
>> I think I can stick around in the capacity Chris suggests. Thanks, all.
>>
>> matt
>>
>>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Tommaso Teofili <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1 to Chris's proposal.
>>>
>>> Let me also add my thanks to you Matt for making Joshua happen in first
>>> place and for bringing it to the ASF and involving me and the rest of the
>>> team in such an interesting piece of sw and to machine translation in
>>> general. I do understand the need for you to move into the NMT stuff but at
>>> the same time I think Joshua is a very good resource (given also the so
>>> many language packs available) for people and / or projects that want to
>>> start with MT having reasonably good results so I can still see its value.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents,
>>> Tommaso
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Il giorno mar 26 set 2017 alle ore 18:57 Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>
>>> ha scritto:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Matt. My feeling is that if you are willing to make you the chair
>>>> of the project,
>>>> which is really an administrative role if you are willing and willingness
>>>> to submit a board
>>>> report once monthly, and then quarterly after 3 months. This is to
>>>> recognize your contributions
>>>> and merit to the project, which will never expire. Even if you are not
>>>> actively developing, I think
>>>> you would make a great chair.
>>>>
>>>> Apache Joshua works, has a release, and has a good community around it of
>>>> people like Lewis,
>>>> Tommaso, and others that I think it would withstand even your development
>>>> departure. It could
>>>> also make a good academic/learning tool and could be something we could
>>>> focus on getting new
>>>> GSOC projects to add in the NeuralMT stuff.
>>>>
>>>> If you are OK with that I think we should proceed. Let me know and thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/25/17, 11:24 PM, "Matt Post" <po...@cs.jhu.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I think now is as good time a time as any to mention my feelings about
>>>> Joshua. You may have noticed that I haven't done much active development
>>>> over the past year; you likely also know that the reason is that the
>>>> research community has shifted entirely from work on statistical models to
>>>> work on neural machine translation. On the research side, neural models now
>>>> consistently outperform phrase-based systems on BLEU score on language
>>>> pairs where there is enough data (roughly, around 15 million words of
>>>> training), and work there has injected a lot of new life into a field that
>>>> many had felt was starting to stagnate. From a production standpoint,
>>>> neural systems are also a big win: the models do best with a GPU and take
>>>> some time to train, but the architecture and pipeline are simpler, and the
>>>> resulting models are constant-sized and on the order of a few gigabytes at
>>>> most, instead of scaling with training data into the tens of gigabytes, as
>>>> statistical systems do. Test-time inference can also be run fairly
>>>> efficiently on CPUs where throughput demands are low enough. All commercial
>>>> systems are now neural or are quickly moving in that direction, including
>>>> relatively surprising places like Systran, which until recently was known
>>>> as the world's best-known rule-based system. As GPUs become more ubiquitous
>>>> and cheap, this situation is only going to get better, even for the end
>>>> user. There is little doubt that neural MT has supplanted statistical
>>>> approaches to machine translation, across both academic research and
>>>> industry. And it is still in its relative infancy, with lots of interesting
>>>> research problems and engineering issues to investigate and resolve.
>>>>
>>>> It's somewhat sad for me because I've been working on or with Joshua
>>>> for almost seven years, but I also find my feelings here interesting in
>>>> contrast to a previous time I've felt tugged away from Joshua. As many of
>>>> you know, Philipp Koehn joined JHU a few years ago, which brought some
>>>> tension to JHU with respect to collaborating on research. There was
>>>> pressure for me to switch. Moses had a much bigger development community
>>>> and was much more feature rich, but despite this, I was reluctant to let go
>>>> of Joshua, for a number of reasons. Java is nicer to work with than C++
>>>> (and not really that much slower); our code is better written, IMO; jar
>>>> files are easier to distribute than C++ in compiled or source form; and, of
>>>> course, I had much more familiarity with the codebase, not to mention
>>>> something of a personal stake in Joshua. But with neural MT, I have none of
>>>> these reservations. It's nice for one to have the Moses/Joshua tension
>>>> resolved (sometimes, ignoring a problem does make it go away!), but for all
>>>> the reasons I listed in the opening paragraph, NMT is now the clear way to
>>>> go. And the bottom line for me is that I can no longer justify spending
>>>> time on Joshua during my working hours, and with a young family and other
>>>> interests that I want to pursue, I don't have time for it outside of work.
>>>> I am happy to still linger on the project, but am unlikely to be much of an
>>>> active participant unless I'm explicitly asked for something.
>>>>
>>>> As I've written before here, I think there may still some role for
>>>> statistical systems, and therefore, for Joshua. In low-resource situations,
>>>> StatMT may still be the right approach overall, or even simply the best way
>>>> to quickly build up a working system. There is some promise I think in
>>>> deploying models easily on older hardware that people have, and perhaps
>>>> getting people to hep contribute translations and translation memories that
>>>> could be used to build and improve systems. There are surely more good
>>>> ideas in this space in the vein of providing a good tool to users.
>>>>
>>>> It's been a great experience for me working with the Apache community
>>>> on Joshua. I am grateful to Chris for convincing us to make Joshua an
>>>> Apache incubator project, which put a lot of new life into the project.
>>>> Lewis has been a lot of help throughout helping smooth over the transition;
>>>> Tommaso has repeatedly helped with tasks large and small; and that is just
>>>> three of you. It's too bad therefore that the timing just didn't work out,
>>>> but neural MT ascended very rapidly. I know there are other members here
>>>> who are also thinking along these lines. At the same time, I hope my
>>>> departure from active development doesn’t mean the end of the project for
>>>> those of you who wish to keep working on it.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> matt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Le 25 sept. 2017 à 23:10, Tommaso Teofili <to...@gmail.com>
>>>> a écrit :
>>>>> I would also think we're ready for graduation.
>>>>> My only concern relates to how many of the current committers are
>>>> willing
>>>>> to keep contributing to the project, basically if we have a PMC
>>>> which is
>>>>> big enough for the graduation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Tommaso
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Il giorno sab 23 set 2017 alle ore 01:21 Chris Mattmann <
>>>> mattmann@apache.org>
>>>>> ha scritto:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom, glad you raised this issue, IMO, Joshua is ready for TLP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We’ve:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Added new PPMC/committers
>>>>>> 2. Made a release
>>>>>> 3. Been friendly and cordial and welcoming on the lists
>>>>>> 4. Vetted the software
>>>>>> 5. Have some decent, emerging docs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Graduation time…Thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> P.S. Subject line change to officially turn this into a [DISCUSS]
>>>> and
>>>>>> hopefully
>>>>>> a [VOTE]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/22/17, 4:19 PM, "Tom Barber" <to...@spicule.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I've not checked against the checklist on the podling page
>>>> yet, but
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> do people feel is missing from Joshua prior to graduation?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like to see some non mentors ship a release so we know we've
>>>> got
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> docs right, but of course it doesn't have to be a major release.
>>>>>> Similarly
>>>>>> was all the licensing stuff resolved etc?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm curious as its not a very fast paced project and it feels
>>>> like ones
>>>>>> like Joshua could sit in the incubator for years without causing
>>>> much
>>>>>> trouble but also not graduating. I'm not in any great rush, but
>>>> what do
>>>>>> people feel about it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Spicule Limited is registered in England & Wales. Company Number: 09954122. Registered office: First Floor, Telecom House, 125-135 Preston Road, Brighton, England, BN1 6AF. VAT No. 251478891.
>
>
> All engagements are subject to Spicule Terms and Conditions of Business. This email and its contents are intended solely for the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure, distributing or copying. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Spicule Limited. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by reply email before deleting it from your system. Service of legal notice cannot be effected on Spicule Limited by email.