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Posted to users@httpd.apache.org by Margus Pärt <ma...@tione.eu> on 2011/02/06 14:25:44 UTC
[users@httpd] SSL offload and load balancing with Apache2's mod_proxy and mod_balancer
for Weblogic, Tomcat and Apache2
Hello!
I had an idea, how to SSL offload and Load balance with Apache2 a bit
differently, and I implemented it also.
Basically there 2 Apache instances running on the same machine with
different configurations, one for SSL offload, other for balancing -
client -> SSL offload -> Balancer -> backend server.
If anyone would give feedback, just in form: "I like it" or "it's
useless", I'd be glad. More detailed and constructive feedback would be
even more appreciated.
Project homepage and referrals to .pdf and .odf files are:
https://code.google.com/p/apache2-ssloffload-and-loadbalance/
Best regards,
Margus Pärt
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Re: [users@httpd] SSL offload and load balancing with Apache2's mod_proxy
and mod_balancer for Weblogic, Tomcat and Apache2
Posted by Margus Pärt <ma...@tione.eu>.
Ok, you just read the text was sent to list, but not the documentation?
https://code.google.com/p/apache2-ssloffload-and-loadbalance/ :)
On 02/07/2011 12:04 AM, Liam O'Boyle wrote:
> Hi Margus,
>
> Yes, from your description "there 2 Apache instances running on the
> same machine" I took it that these were running on the same machine.
> Actually, I had assumed you were running ssl termination + load
> balancer + destination web server all on the same box, and I was
> wondering what the point was :)
>
> If you are actually putting the different parts on different machines,
> then this sounds fine. The best configuration will depend on the load
> in the different parts of your system.
>
> Liam
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Margus Pärt<ma...@tione.eu> wrote:
>> Hello!
>>
>> Thank you for your response!
>>
>> True, the load would be twice as high, but my tests showed, that even with
>> that setup, in front of multiple webservers (with a simple php page) which
>> load with tests went to sky high turing load tests, one balancer in Vmware
>> with this config and 512MB RAM& one 1Ghz proccessor was enough and it's
>> load was between 4-12. So, I think that load should not be issue, also its
>> possible to add more than one SSL offloader and balancer with same
>> configuration.
>>
>> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but by any change, did you think, that my
>> applications are on the same server also? Or did you suggest, that I should
>> have SSL terminating and balancing on separate machines?
>>
>> Br,
>> Margus
>>
>>
>>
>> On 02/06/2011 11:00 PM, Liam O'Boyle wrote:
>>> Hi Margus,
>>>
>>> The point of these things (SSL termination and load balancing) is to
>>> generally distribute the workload across multiple machines, allowing a
>>> site to scale to a larger number of visitors. If you're doing them
>>> all on one machine, it's actually worse, as now you have all the same
>>> work being done on one machine, but you have the overhead of multiple
>>> apache instances and a more complex setup as well.
>>>
>>> Liam
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 12:25 AM, Margus Pärt<ma...@tione.eu> wrote:
>>>> Hello!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I had an idea, how to SSL offload and Load balance with Apache2 a bit
>>>> differently, and I implemented it also.
>>>>
>>>> Basically there 2 Apache instances running on the same machine with
>>>> different configurations, one for SSL offload, other for balancing -
>>>> client
>>>> -> SSL offload -> Balancer -> backend server.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If anyone would give feedback, just in form: "I like it" or "it's
>>>> useless",
>>>> I'd be glad. More detailed and constructive feedback would be even more
>>>> appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Project homepage and referrals to .pdf and .odf files are:
>>>> https://code.google.com/p/apache2-ssloffload-and-loadbalance/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Margus Pärt
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server
>>>> Project.
>>>> See<URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
>>>> " from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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Re: [users@httpd] SSL offload and load balancing with Apache2's
mod_proxy and mod_balancer for Weblogic, Tomcat and Apache2
Posted by Liam O'Boyle <li...@intelligencebank.com>.
Hi Margus,
Yes, from your description "there 2 Apache instances running on the
same machine" I took it that these were running on the same machine.
Actually, I had assumed you were running ssl termination + load
balancer + destination web server all on the same box, and I was
wondering what the point was :)
If you are actually putting the different parts on different machines,
then this sounds fine. The best configuration will depend on the load
in the different parts of your system.
Liam
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Margus Pärt <ma...@tione.eu> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> Thank you for your response!
>
> True, the load would be twice as high, but my tests showed, that even with
> that setup, in front of multiple webservers (with a simple php page) which
> load with tests went to sky high turing load tests, one balancer in Vmware
> with this config and 512MB RAM & one 1Ghz proccessor was enough and it's
> load was between 4-12. So, I think that load should not be issue, also its
> possible to add more than one SSL offloader and balancer with same
> configuration.
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but by any change, did you think, that my
> applications are on the same server also? Or did you suggest, that I should
> have SSL terminating and balancing on separate machines?
>
> Br,
> Margus
>
>
>
> On 02/06/2011 11:00 PM, Liam O'Boyle wrote:
>>
>> Hi Margus,
>>
>> The point of these things (SSL termination and load balancing) is to
>> generally distribute the workload across multiple machines, allowing a
>> site to scale to a larger number of visitors. If you're doing them
>> all on one machine, it's actually worse, as now you have all the same
>> work being done on one machine, but you have the overhead of multiple
>> apache instances and a more complex setup as well.
>>
>> Liam
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 12:25 AM, Margus Pärt<ma...@tione.eu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello!
>>>
>>>
>>> I had an idea, how to SSL offload and Load balance with Apache2 a bit
>>> differently, and I implemented it also.
>>>
>>> Basically there 2 Apache instances running on the same machine with
>>> different configurations, one for SSL offload, other for balancing -
>>> client
>>> -> SSL offload -> Balancer -> backend server.
>>>
>>>
>>> If anyone would give feedback, just in form: "I like it" or "it's
>>> useless",
>>> I'd be glad. More detailed and constructive feedback would be even more
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Project homepage and referrals to .pdf and .odf files are:
>>> https://code.google.com/p/apache2-ssloffload-and-loadbalance/
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Margus Pärt
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server
>>> Project.
>>> See<URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
>>> " from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> See<URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
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>>
>
>
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--
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Re: [users@httpd] SSL offload and load balancing with Apache2's
mod_proxy and mod_balancer for Weblogic, Tomcat and Apache2
Posted by Eric Covener <co...@gmail.com>.
> one 1Ghz proccessor was enough and it's
> load was between 4-12.
That's a successful test?
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Re: [users@httpd] SSL offload and load balancing with Apache2's mod_proxy
and mod_balancer for Weblogic, Tomcat and Apache2
Posted by Margus Pärt <ma...@tione.eu>.
Hello!
Thank you for your response!
True, the load would be twice as high, but my tests showed, that even
with that setup, in front of multiple webservers (with a simple php
page) which load with tests went to sky high turing load tests, one
balancer in Vmware with this config and 512MB RAM & one 1Ghz proccessor
was enough and it's load was between 4-12. So, I think that load should
not be issue, also its possible to add more than one SSL offloader and
balancer with same configuration.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but by any change, did you think, that
my applications are on the same server also? Or did you suggest, that I
should have SSL terminating and balancing on separate machines?
Br,
Margus
On 02/06/2011 11:00 PM, Liam O'Boyle wrote:
> Hi Margus,
>
> The point of these things (SSL termination and load balancing) is to
> generally distribute the workload across multiple machines, allowing a
> site to scale to a larger number of visitors. If you're doing them
> all on one machine, it's actually worse, as now you have all the same
> work being done on one machine, but you have the overhead of multiple
> apache instances and a more complex setup as well.
>
> Liam
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 12:25 AM, Margus Pärt<ma...@tione.eu> wrote:
>> Hello!
>>
>>
>> I had an idea, how to SSL offload and Load balance with Apache2 a bit
>> differently, and I implemented it also.
>>
>> Basically there 2 Apache instances running on the same machine with
>> different configurations, one for SSL offload, other for balancing - client
>> -> SSL offload -> Balancer -> backend server.
>>
>>
>> If anyone would give feedback, just in form: "I like it" or "it's useless",
>> I'd be glad. More detailed and constructive feedback would be even more
>> appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Project homepage and referrals to .pdf and .odf files are:
>> https://code.google.com/p/apache2-ssloffload-and-loadbalance/
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Margus Pärt
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
>> See<URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
>> " from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
>>
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [users@httpd] SSL offload and load balancing with Apache2's
mod_proxy and mod_balancer for Weblogic, Tomcat and Apache2
Posted by Liam O'Boyle <li...@elyobo.net>.
Hi Margus,
The point of these things (SSL termination and load balancing) is to
generally distribute the workload across multiple machines, allowing a
site to scale to a larger number of visitors. If you're doing them
all on one machine, it's actually worse, as now you have all the same
work being done on one machine, but you have the overhead of multiple
apache instances and a more complex setup as well.
Liam
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 12:25 AM, Margus Pärt <ma...@tione.eu> wrote:
> Hello!
>
>
> I had an idea, how to SSL offload and Load balance with Apache2 a bit
> differently, and I implemented it also.
>
> Basically there 2 Apache instances running on the same machine with
> different configurations, one for SSL offload, other for balancing - client
> -> SSL offload -> Balancer -> backend server.
>
>
> If anyone would give feedback, just in form: "I like it" or "it's useless",
> I'd be glad. More detailed and constructive feedback would be even more
> appreciated.
>
>
>
>
> Project homepage and referrals to .pdf and .odf files are:
> https://code.google.com/p/apache2-ssloffload-and-loadbalance/
>
>
> Best regards,
> Margus Pärt
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
> See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> " from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
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>
>
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Re: [users@httpd] SSL offload and load balancing with Apache2's mod_proxy
and mod_balancer for Weblogic, Tomcat and Apache2
Posted by Margus Pärt <ma...@tione.eu>.
Hey!
Sorry, I did not explain detailed enough - I'm not using mod-itk in
balancer, but in backend server.
I made few line of corrections, but will describe more detailed later
and add some more configuration examples and compare to what if orginal
apache logic would be used for SSL offload and load balancing.
Thanks a lot for your responses, I got few new ideas, how to make my
solution better. :)
Margus Pärt
On 02/07/2011 02:29 PM, Tom Evans wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Margus Pärt<ma...@tione.eu> wrote:
>> Hello!
>>
>> Thank you for your response! Glad to hear that I am not the only, who has
>> thought that this solution would make life easier.
>>
>> Taking Apache-Event into use in our case is not an option, as
>> Apache2-mpm-itk is used (proccesses running in different user rights) and
>> new TCP connection has to be started for new client - it would be possible
>> to assign different IP-s for different hosts, but named hosting is much
>> easier to configure.
>>
>> If you would be so kind and take a look at the documentation also and give
>> your oppinion:
>> https://apache2-ssloffload-and-loadbalance.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Documentation/apache2_ssloffload_and_loadbalance.pdf
>>
>> Page 3 contains summary - how it works - and most of it is automatic install
>> + configuration by copy-paste to bash.
>>
>>
>>
> mpm-itk is to allow dynamic components to run as the appropriate user
> isn't it? Why would you run your ssl offload and proxy server with
> specific uids? Backends, sure, but everything at this tier should be
> generic and scalable - thats the point of offload.
>
> I had a quick look at the docs:
>
> There is a lot of distro-specific and site-specific configuration in
> there, that probably wouldn't be pertinent to most users. For
> instance, most users setting up an SSL site have no interest in client
> certificates, they simply want to secure comms. If you are producing a
> 'this is how we set up servers' for $JOB, then great, but I don't see
> how sharing this with the world at large helps them or you.
>
> There is also little or no explanation of how/why you have chosen this
> configuration, which makes it difficult to see why to use this.
>
> Think of Apache as the world's most configurable Leatherman's multi
> tool (use google if you don't know what one is :). You've produced a
> configuration that works great for you, it's an amazing 'corkscrew'.
> Other people don't need 'corkscrew's, they need 'knife' or 'toothpick'
> or 'toothpick-corkscrew'. For those people, even the one who needs
> something very similar to what you have, your doc doesn't really help
> much, as it isn't what they need, and doesn't explain the choices that
> they have.
>
> For instance, your choice of mpm-itk is exceedingly rare for this sort
> of use case. To someone who doesn't have your requirements, it is
> almost certainly an incorrect choice, but no-where in your docs do you
> go into your choice of MPM, etc.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tom
>
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Re: [users@httpd] SSL offload and load balancing with Apache2's
mod_proxy and mod_balancer for Weblogic, Tomcat and Apache2
Posted by Tom Evans <te...@googlemail.com>.
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Margus Pärt <ma...@tione.eu> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> Thank you for your response! Glad to hear that I am not the only, who has
> thought that this solution would make life easier.
>
> Taking Apache-Event into use in our case is not an option, as
> Apache2-mpm-itk is used (proccesses running in different user rights) and
> new TCP connection has to be started for new client - it would be possible
> to assign different IP-s for different hosts, but named hosting is much
> easier to configure.
>
> If you would be so kind and take a look at the documentation also and give
> your oppinion:
> https://apache2-ssloffload-and-loadbalance.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Documentation/apache2_ssloffload_and_loadbalance.pdf
>
> Page 3 contains summary - how it works - and most of it is automatic install
> + configuration by copy-paste to bash.
>
>
>
mpm-itk is to allow dynamic components to run as the appropriate user
isn't it? Why would you run your ssl offload and proxy server with
specific uids? Backends, sure, but everything at this tier should be
generic and scalable - thats the point of offload.
I had a quick look at the docs:
There is a lot of distro-specific and site-specific configuration in
there, that probably wouldn't be pertinent to most users. For
instance, most users setting up an SSL site have no interest in client
certificates, they simply want to secure comms. If you are producing a
'this is how we set up servers' for $JOB, then great, but I don't see
how sharing this with the world at large helps them or you.
There is also little or no explanation of how/why you have chosen this
configuration, which makes it difficult to see why to use this.
Think of Apache as the world's most configurable Leatherman's multi
tool (use google if you don't know what one is :). You've produced a
configuration that works great for you, it's an amazing 'corkscrew'.
Other people don't need 'corkscrew's, they need 'knife' or 'toothpick'
or 'toothpick-corkscrew'. For those people, even the one who needs
something very similar to what you have, your doc doesn't really help
much, as it isn't what they need, and doesn't explain the choices that
they have.
For instance, your choice of mpm-itk is exceedingly rare for this sort
of use case. To someone who doesn't have your requirements, it is
almost certainly an incorrect choice, but no-where in your docs do you
go into your choice of MPM, etc.
Cheers
Tom
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Re: [users@httpd] SSL offload and load balancing with Apache2's mod_proxy
and mod_balancer for Weblogic, Tomcat and Apache2
Posted by Margus Pärt <ma...@tione.eu>.
Hello!
Thank you for your response! Glad to hear that I am not the only, who
has thought that this solution would make life easier.
Taking Apache-Event into use in our case is not an option, as
Apache2-mpm-itk is used (proccesses running in different user rights)
and new TCP connection has to be started for new client - it would be
possible to assign different IP-s for different hosts, but named hosting
is much easier to configure.
If you would be so kind and take a look at the documentation also and
give your oppinion:
https://apache2-ssloffload-and-loadbalance.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Documentation/apache2_ssloffload_and_loadbalance.pdf
Page 3 contains summary - how it works - and most of it is automatic
install + configuration by copy-paste to bash.
On 02/07/2011 11:36 AM, Tom Evans wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Margus Pärt<ma...@tione.eu> wrote:
>> Hello!
>>
>>
>> I had an idea, how to SSL offload and Load balance with Apache2 a bit
>> differently, and I implemented it also.
>>
>> Basically there 2 Apache instances running on the same machine with
>> different configurations, one for SSL offload, other for balancing - client
>> -> SSL offload -> Balancer -> backend server.
>>
>>
>> If anyone would give feedback, just in form: "I like it" or "it's useless",
>> I'd be glad. More detailed and constructive feedback would be even more
>> appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Project homepage and referrals to .pdf and .odf files are:
>> https://code.google.com/p/apache2-ssloffload-and-loadbalance/
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Margus Pärt
>>
> I didn't read any of your docs, but this is effectively how we have
> been hosting our websites for about the last 3-4 years.
>
> We have a pair of routers, which round-robin balances (with state)
> each http requests onto one of a pair (or more, but currently a pair)
> of boxes. These boxes all have the appropriate IPs of the hosted sites
> assigned to their loopback (so that each machine can handle any
> correctly routed request).
> Each box has a pair of apache instances running on it, one running
> apache-worker and doing SSL termination and proxying to the second
> instance, running apache-event. The second instance serves all static
> files, and proxys content from the application servers.
> Each application is then split into a number of backends, and we use
> mod_proxy_balancer on the proxies to manage which ones are active.
>
>> one 1Ghz proccessor was enough and it's load was between 4-12
> That's successful? If I look at graphs of our load average, it never
> goes above 1.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tom
>
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Re: [users@httpd] SSL offload and load balancing with Apache2's
mod_proxy and mod_balancer for Weblogic, Tomcat and Apache2
Posted by Tom Evans <te...@googlemail.com>.
On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Margus Pärt <ma...@tione.eu> wrote:
> Hello!
>
>
> I had an idea, how to SSL offload and Load balance with Apache2 a bit
> differently, and I implemented it also.
>
> Basically there 2 Apache instances running on the same machine with
> different configurations, one for SSL offload, other for balancing - client
> -> SSL offload -> Balancer -> backend server.
>
>
> If anyone would give feedback, just in form: "I like it" or "it's useless",
> I'd be glad. More detailed and constructive feedback would be even more
> appreciated.
>
>
>
>
> Project homepage and referrals to .pdf and .odf files are:
> https://code.google.com/p/apache2-ssloffload-and-loadbalance/
>
>
> Best regards,
> Margus Pärt
>
I didn't read any of your docs, but this is effectively how we have
been hosting our websites for about the last 3-4 years.
We have a pair of routers, which round-robin balances (with state)
each http requests onto one of a pair (or more, but currently a pair)
of boxes. These boxes all have the appropriate IPs of the hosted sites
assigned to their loopback (so that each machine can handle any
correctly routed request).
Each box has a pair of apache instances running on it, one running
apache-worker and doing SSL termination and proxying to the second
instance, running apache-event. The second instance serves all static
files, and proxys content from the application servers.
Each application is then split into a number of backends, and we use
mod_proxy_balancer on the proxies to manage which ones are active.
> one 1Ghz proccessor was enough and it's load was between 4-12
That's successful? If I look at graphs of our load average, it never
goes above 1.
Cheers
Tom
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