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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by Marc Strapetz <ma...@smartsvn.com> on 2005/02/18 14:02:08 UTC
SmartSVN - a new Subversion client.
Hi All,
we have started Early Access Program for SmartSVN, a new Subversion client
which is based on TMate's JavaSVN. The current version supports the basic
Subversion commands. For more details -- planned features, downloads,
mailing list -- please refer to http://www.smartsvn.com/smartsvn/index.html.
--
Best regards,
Marc Strapetz.
_______________
smartsvn.com
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Re: SmartSVN - a new Subversion client.
Posted by Simon Perreault <no...@nomis80.org>.
On February 24, 2005 00:35, Brian Behlendorf wrote:
> To illustrate I'll create a fake example far worse than the current one,
> to make clear my concern. Imagine a company who noticed the great press
> and word-of-mouth Subversion was getting, and decided to release a product
> called "SubversionPro".
If this is a concern to you, then why aren't Subversion and SVN trademarked?
Isn't that the usual way to protect a product name from such abuse?
--
Simon Perreault <no...@nomis80.org> -- http://nomis80.org
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Re: SmartSVN - a new Subversion client.
Posted by Thomas Singer <su...@smartcvs.com>.
Brian,
Our intention is NOT to create a derivate of Subversion, we are creating a
powerful Subversion client, which will communicate with your Subversion
server. I know, what I'm talking about, because we need to handle the
diversion of CVSNT and GNU CVS in our SmartCVS and this is a very hard job.
We definitely hope, that you can ensure for the future the one and only
Subversion-standard. Unfortunately you've choosen a license, which makes it
quite impossible to enforce this.
BTW, our SmartCVS users asked us approximately one year ago, "when SmartSVN
will be available". To this time we neither have decided to create SmartSVN
nor registered the smartsvn.com domain. But of course it was the most
natural thing to name our Subversion client "SmartSVN" - everybody would
have done in our situation.
--
Best regards,
Thomas Singer
_____________
smartsvn.com
Brian Behlendorf schrieb:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2005 kfogel@collab.net wrote:
>
>> Brian Behlendorf <br...@collab.net> writes:
>>
>>> Any particular reason you are using the "SVN" abbreviation in the name
>>> of a product that isn't part of the Subversion project, or even open
>>> source?
>>>
>>> I guess the rest of us will keep using "DumbSVN"...
>>
>>
>> Marc, just to clarify:
>>
>> I think what Brian's objecting to is not the mere presence of the
>> string "SVN" in your product's name. Plenty of Subversion-related
>> projects already have that, as a glance at our Links page will show.
>> The issue is more the *combination* of that name, "SVN", with the fact
>> that you're offering something that takes the place of the 'svn'
>> client already offered by the Subversion project.
>
>
> Well, no, that's not quite accurate.
>
> I think this community should be more protective than it is about the
> Subversion name, and its SVN contraction. I think it would be a
> disaster if it ended up like the Linux community, where the confusion
> over what-is-Linux has opened the door to FUD storms by competitors and
> confusion by people outside the circle of Slashdot readers and others in
> the know.
>
> To illustrate I'll create a fake example far worse than the current one,
> to make clear my concern. Imagine a company who noticed the great press
> and word-of-mouth Subversion was getting, and decided to release a
> product called "SubversionPro". Let's say such a company has never so
> much as submitted a bug report or comment on the users list, let alone
> fixed bugs or added new features. Let's say they got smart and
> purchased the Subversion keyword at Google and other search engines,
> obtained subversion.com[1], paid for a positive review in some tech rag
> that didn't make it clear that the "Subversion project" is an open
> source project but instead linked to "SubversionPro", etc. How would it
> make the people here who contribute to the project feel to have our
> public image essentially hijacked out from under us?
>
> I've tried *extremely* hard to fight back the impulses within CollabNet
> to pull a JBoss on Subversion, because I've always felt that doing so
> would disincent other contributors, and disincent other companies from
> also incorporating Subversion into their products. I *want* to see the
> community of core developers be much, much more than CollabNet's own
> contributions. That's why we chose a very easygoing license, and kept
> the CollabNet imprimatuer to a minimum. I want a large number of
> developers to feel a sense of ownership over the name "Subversion"
> because they've contributed to it; I don't want them to feel like that
> investment (in code or street cred) enriches just one particular vendor.
>
> The point made last week about thinking about _Crossing the Chasm_ and
> thinking about the "whole product" resonated deeply with me. All these
> disparate projects using the SVN name really should be thought of as
> part of this "project", speaking broadly. This list has so far limited
> itself to core libraries, the server, and the command line client, but
> it's also the most logical place to start thinking about coordinating
> the "whole product" as Subversion is know to the wider user community,
> the same way that other aggregate projects coordinate. If there are
> lots of deriviate works that carry the SVN or Subversion name but are
> outside of the sphere of the "whole product", that makes managing a
> positive "whole product" experience much, much tougher.
>
> This is why, for example, the Apache Software Foundation is pretty
> fierce about protecting the use of its name - they don't want to see
> people releasing products called "ApachePro" or "Apache++" or "MS
> Apache", because of that confusion, but also because it's using someone
> else's name without having earned the right to it. Even if "SmartSVN"
> isn't too far from other examples we've allowed, and even if I can trust
> that the intentions of the SmartSVN developers are to contribute back
> from time to time, I worry that we're slipping down a slope in a
> direction we don't want to head in.
>
> To be clear, I've got *no* problem with companies building commercial
> and/or proprietary derivative works from Subversion source code. The
> more, the merrier, because that should lead (in theory) to more
> developers and more development across the board.
>
> To date, seeing examples of this have just been somewhat annoying to me,
> but I've held my tongue on the basis of "let's see where it goes". I
> hoped the community would feel the same kind of urge and eventually
> someone would say something. Maybe that conversation has already been
> had, and I missed it. Or, maybe people are *expecting* CollabNet to
> provide some sort of leadership here. I'm sorry to pick on SmartSVN and
> Marc, and do admit that it was the end of a long week and it was more an
> accumulation of events rather than specifically SmartSVN. But am I the
> only one who feels this way?
>
> Brian
>
>
> [1] - check it out. turns out not to be such a hypothetical example.
>
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Re: 'SVN' in client names (was Re: SmartSVN - a new Subversion client.)
Posted by Ryan Bloom <rb...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:17:37 -0800 (PST), Brian Behlendorf
<br...@collab.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2005, SteveKing wrote:
> > Ok, I admit I didn't ask first if I can name my project "Tortoise_SVN_" or
> > not. In fact, when I started it already was a registered project at
> > tigris.org. And AFAIK, projects registered there have to be approved by
> > tigris.org people before it goes online? So I thought the name was ok.
>
> Yep, and in my opinion it is fine - other open source projects, "close by"
> in spirit and URL and license, are OK by me. And if we get a "whole
> product" effort underway, that would provide another clear demarcation.
I am a lurker, and you all are free to ignore my opinion, but I take a
little exception to this. The beauty of the Apache and Subversions
licenses, are that they don't play favorites between open source and
commercial projects. Most of you guys know that I was very active in
Apache for a while, and I worked for two companies that released
Apache based products. I also worked on some very minor open source
projects that extended Apache.
I was never comfortable with calling either commercial product Apache,
and we were always careful to say "XXXX, based on Apache". I felt the
same way about my open source work. I would never have called an open
source module "XXXApache", instead, I would have used a name like "XXX
for Apache". I would have done that, because the Apache license
requires that I not use the Apache name directly without prior
approval.
By allowing open source projects to use the SVN name, but not
commercial projects, you cross the line about why you are writing open
source projects, IMHO. Instead of using open source to create
communities and high quality software, you are using your open source
project to "suggest" that others write open source software.
I would much rather see a single rule about when and how you can use
"SVN" in your project names, rather than one rule that is for open
source projects and another that is for commercial projects. This
puts everybody on equal footing, and helps to promote a community
around the project, because everybody is playing by the same rules.
Changing the rules for commercial projects means that they are
essentially second-class citizens, which doesn't promote community.
Now, having said all of that, I don't have an opinion on using SVN in
a project name. I see positives and negatives to both sides.
However, based on how long the SVN project has been around and the
number of other projects using SVN in their names, I'm not sure how
you can stop new projects from doing the same thing.
Ryan
--
Ryan Bloom
rbb@apache.org
rbb@rkbloom.net
rbloom@gmail.com
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Re: 'SVN' in client names (was Re: SmartSVN - a new Subversion client.)
Posted by SteveKing <st...@gmx.ch>.
Brian Behlendorf wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2005, SteveKing wrote:
>
>> Ok, I admit I didn't ask first if I can name my project
>> "Tortoise_SVN_" or not. In fact, when I started it already was a
>> registered project at tigris.org. And AFAIK, projects registered there
>> have to be approved by tigris.org people before it goes online? So I
>> thought the name was ok.
>
> Yep, and in my opinion it is fine - other open source projects, "close
> by" in spirit and URL and license, are OK by me. And if we get a "whole
> product" effort underway, that would provide another clear demarcation.
I think the first step in that "whole product" effort should be a main
website which serves as a portal to all the sub-projects and clients. If
you look at the openoffice.org site (which also is "powered by
collab.net") this could be a start. They too have some sub-projects (ok,
they're all included in the openoffice package, but still). A user going
to that site first sees everything about openoffice. Then, at the top
there's a tab "projects" which will then lead to all the sub-projects.
Subversion could do the same, but instead of "projects" provide tabs for
"clients" and "bindings".
(and maybe this would be finally the day where the mailing list archives
_on that site_ will work and we won't have to use other archives ;) -
btw: anyone knows when tigris.org gets updated?)
>> But if you guys are uncomfortable with a project using the "SVN" in
>> its name, I have no problem renaming TortoiseSVN to something else.
>> Just drop me a note (and give me some time to find another name, it
>> surely won't happen overnight).
>
>
> No! Please, keep using it. I'd rather adjust the policy and our
> approach to include you than piss you off. :)
Ok, thanks. I'll keep the name then.
Stefan
--
___
oo // \\ "De Chelonian Mobile"
(_,\/ \_/ \ TortoiseSVN
\ \_/_\_/> The coolest Interface to (Sub)Version Control
/_/ \_\ http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org
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Re: 'SVN' in client names (was Re: SmartSVN - a new Subversion
client.)
Posted by Brian Behlendorf <br...@collab.net>.
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005, SteveKing wrote:
> Ok, I admit I didn't ask first if I can name my project "Tortoise_SVN_" or
> not. In fact, when I started it already was a registered project at
> tigris.org. And AFAIK, projects registered there have to be approved by
> tigris.org people before it goes online? So I thought the name was ok.
Yep, and in my opinion it is fine - other open source projects, "close by"
in spirit and URL and license, are OK by me. And if we get a "whole
product" effort underway, that would provide another clear demarcation.
> (and your LICENCE file only forbids the use of the "tigris" name, not "SVN"
> or even "Subversion" - maybe you guys should change that!)
Yep.
> But if you guys are uncomfortable with a project using the "SVN" in its name,
> I have no problem renaming TortoiseSVN to something else. Just drop me a note
> (and give me some time to find another name, it surely won't happen
> overnight).
No! Please, keep using it. I'd rather adjust the policy and our approach
to include you than piss you off. :)
Brian
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'SVN' in client names (was Re: SmartSVN - a new Subversion client.)
Posted by SteveKing <st...@gmx.ch>.
Brian Behlendorf wrote:
[snip]
> To date, seeing examples of this have just been somewhat annoying to me,
> but I've held my tongue on the basis of "let's see where it goes". I
> hoped the community would feel the same kind of urge and eventually
> someone would say something. Maybe that conversation has already been
> had, and I missed it. Or, maybe people are *expecting* CollabNet to
> provide some sort of leadership here. I'm sorry to pick on SmartSVN and
> Marc, and do admit that it was the end of a long week and it was more an
> accumulation of events rather than specifically SmartSVN. But am I the
> only one who feels this way?
Ok, I admit I didn't ask first if I can name my project "Tortoise_SVN_"
or not. In fact, when I started it already was a registered project at
tigris.org. And AFAIK, projects registered there have to be approved by
tigris.org people before it goes online? So I thought the name was ok.
(and your LICENCE file only forbids the use of the "tigris" name, not
"SVN" or even "Subversion" - maybe you guys should change that!)
But if you guys are uncomfortable with a project using the "SVN" in its
name, I have no problem renaming TortoiseSVN to something else. Just
drop me a note (and give me some time to find another name, it surely
won't happen overnight).
Stefan
--
___
oo // \\ "De Chelonian Mobile"
(_,\/ \_/ \ TortoiseSVN
\ \_/_\_/> The coolest Interface to (Sub)Version Control
/_/ \_\ http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org
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Re: SmartSVN - a new Subversion client.
Posted by Brian Behlendorf <br...@collab.net>.
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005, Martin Tomes wrote:
> The current structure of the Subversion web presence is as a project among
> many other projects in the tigris system, and it is collab.net branded. I
> know projects are grouped but it doesn't hit you in the face.
>
> If you visit apache.org you don't arrive at the web server page with links to
> other projects, you end up at a 'whole product' site and the http server is a
> part of it. It is also Apache branded.
>
> If you want to promote the whole Subversion ecosystem then you need to
> present it in a coherent way. I have tried to make a start with my Wiki at
> www.subversionary.org but my attempts so far are woefully inadequate because
> of a lack of time. I see Karl owns the subversion.org domain, making good
> use of this would help enormously.
All very good points. We never really had the time to make the "tigris"
meme work out the way originally planned, but in the intervening time it's
become a useful home for a large number of research projects in the
software engineering space. There have been some thoughts to give
Subversion a better "home" so to speak, or make it its own. More thoughts
to come...
Brian
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Re: SmartSVN - a new Subversion client.
Posted by kf...@collab.net.
Ben Reser <be...@reser.org> writes:
> Now as far as the other comments on making a "Subversion portal" where
> we can point to all the other projects in a nice concise way, I'll agree
> that should be done. I presume that's Karl's plan for subversion.org.
Actually, my plan is just to have it forwarding to
subversion.tigris.org -- which is what it currently does.
To be more precise:
With certain restrictions, I informally consider subversion.org to be
owned by all Subversion full committers who have been such for more
than three years (or something roughly like that). The only reason I
haven't formalized this is lack of time to do the paperwork, etc.
Been a bit swamped lately.
The restrictions are merely that I don't want it to detract from
Subversion's home URL as provided by CollabNet. So as long as
Subversion *has* a home URL provided by CollabNet, and CollabNet's
relationship with Subversion remains more or less what it currently
is, I just plan to forward subversion.org to that URL. If those
circumstances ever changed, then I would consult the above-described
group of committers for what to do with subversion.org.
The important thing is for the Subversion project to have a single,
clear home site. We have that right now. These discussions of what
"the project" comprises might change how we arrange that home site,
but they won't change the fact of its existence or its uniqueness.
(That's why the subversion.com thing is so annoying -- what they're
doing is impersonation, beyond the point of plausible deniability
IMHO. Fortunately, I don't think they've gotten much traction on the
Net with it, at least so far.)
Hope this helps,
-Karl
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Re: SmartSVN - a new Subversion client.
Posted by Ben Reser <be...@reser.org>.
On Thu, Feb 24, 2005 at 09:41:26AM +0000, Martin Tomes wrote:
> On a similar note my personal opinion is that the TortoiseSVN and
> Subversion teams should work together to provide a single binary
> download for the Windows platform. Like it or not the Windows platform
> will be the major client for Subversion and making it simple to install
> and maintain on that platform will help promote Subversion more than
> anything else. Also, Subversion on Windows *is* TortoiseSVN for most
> users, I am a command line type of person and I rarely use the command
> line client on Windows. In fact I can't remember the last time I used
> it on Windows.
Not to be antagonistic here. But Steve King won't even agree to use our
libraries and simply bind to them. He ships his own separate set. This
has created issues in the past (that were resolved). Somehow I don't
see one Windows binary download happening. First we'd have to agree
that the command line client and TSVN would have to live with the same
libraries, because it would be absurd to install the libraries twice out
of the same binary package.
Further, to be honest, I'm not sure what the gain here is with one
binary package? A lot of users simply don't want or need the command
line client or vice versa. What's so much harder about downloading two
installers?
Throw in the fact that our releases are not cordinated. And I don't
really see the point. It's better to have separate packages.
Now as far as the other comments on making a "Subversion portal" where
we can point to all the other projects in a nice concise way, I'll agree
that should be done. I presume that's Karl's plan for subversion.org.
--
Ben Reser <be...@reser.org>
http://ben.reser.org
"Conscience is the inner voice which warns us somebody may be looking."
- H.L. Mencken
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Re: SmartSVN - a new Subversion client.
Posted by Martin Tomes <li...@tomes.org>.
Brian Behlendorf wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2005 kfogel@collab.net wrote:
>
>> Brian Behlendorf <br...@collab.net> writes:
>>
>>> Any particular reason you are using the "SVN" abbreviation in the name
>>> of a product that isn't part of the Subversion project, or even open
>>> source?
>>>
>>> I guess the rest of us will keep using "DumbSVN"...
>>
>> Marc, just to clarify:
>>
>> I think what Brian's objecting to is not the mere presence of the
>> string "SVN" in your product's name.
>
> The point made last week about thinking about _Crossing the Chasm_ and
> thinking about the "whole product" resonated deeply with me.
You gave Apache as an example and I think Subversion could learn from
Apache.
The current structure of the Subversion web presence is as a project
among many other projects in the tigris system, and it is collab.net
branded. I know projects are grouped but it doesn't hit you in the face.
If you visit apache.org you don't arrive at the web server page with
links to other projects, you end up at a 'whole product' site and the
http server is a part of it. It is also Apache branded.
If you want to promote the whole Subversion ecosystem then you need to
present it in a coherent way. I have tried to make a start with my Wiki
at www.subversionary.org but my attempts so far are woefully inadequate
because of a lack of time. I see Karl owns the subversion.org domain,
making good use of this would help enormously.
On a similar note my personal opinion is that the TortoiseSVN and
Subversion teams should work together to provide a single binary
download for the Windows platform. Like it or not the Windows platform
will be the major client for Subversion and making it simple to install
and maintain on that platform will help promote Subversion more than
anything else. Also, Subversion on Windows *is* TortoiseSVN for most
users, I am a command line type of person and I rarely use the command
line client on Windows. In fact I can't remember the last time I used
it on Windows.
Perhaps once version 1.2 is out the core developers could devote a few
hours to working out how some of this could be achieved, it would be
time well spent. Certain large software companies have proved that it's
marketing which gets your software used and not quality, Subversion
could have both!
Meanwhile there's always my Wiki;-)
--
Martin Tomes
echo 'martin at tomes x org x uk'\
| sed -e 's/ x /\./g' -e 's/ at /@/'
The Subversion Wiki is at http://www.subversionary.org/
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Re: SmartSVN - a new Subversion client.
Posted by Brian Behlendorf <br...@collab.net>.
On Sat, 20 Feb 2005 kfogel@collab.net wrote:
> Brian Behlendorf <br...@collab.net> writes:
>> Any particular reason you are using the "SVN" abbreviation in the name
>> of a product that isn't part of the Subversion project, or even open
>> source?
>>
>> I guess the rest of us will keep using "DumbSVN"...
>
> Marc, just to clarify:
>
> I think what Brian's objecting to is not the mere presence of the
> string "SVN" in your product's name. Plenty of Subversion-related
> projects already have that, as a glance at our Links page will show.
> The issue is more the *combination* of that name, "SVN", with the fact
> that you're offering something that takes the place of the 'svn'
> client already offered by the Subversion project.
Well, no, that's not quite accurate.
I think this community should be more protective than it is about the
Subversion name, and its SVN contraction. I think it would be a disaster
if it ended up like the Linux community, where the confusion over
what-is-Linux has opened the door to FUD storms by competitors and
confusion by people outside the circle of Slashdot readers and others in
the know.
To illustrate I'll create a fake example far worse than the current one,
to make clear my concern. Imagine a company who noticed the great press
and word-of-mouth Subversion was getting, and decided to release a product
called "SubversionPro". Let's say such a company has never so much as
submitted a bug report or comment on the users list, let alone fixed bugs
or added new features. Let's say they got smart and purchased the
Subversion keyword at Google and other search engines, obtained
subversion.com[1], paid for a positive review in some tech rag that didn't
make it clear that the "Subversion project" is an open source project but
instead linked to "SubversionPro", etc. How would it make the people here
who contribute to the project feel to have our public image essentially
hijacked out from under us?
I've tried *extremely* hard to fight back the impulses within CollabNet to
pull a JBoss on Subversion, because I've always felt that doing so would
disincent other contributors, and disincent other companies from also
incorporating Subversion into their products. I *want* to see the
community of core developers be much, much more than CollabNet's own
contributions. That's why we chose a very easygoing license, and kept the
CollabNet imprimatuer to a minimum. I want a large number of developers
to feel a sense of ownership over the name "Subversion" because they've
contributed to it; I don't want them to feel like that investment (in code
or street cred) enriches just one particular vendor.
The point made last week about thinking about _Crossing the Chasm_ and
thinking about the "whole product" resonated deeply with me. All these
disparate projects using the SVN name really should be thought of as part
of this "project", speaking broadly. This list has so far limited itself
to core libraries, the server, and the command line client, but it's also
the most logical place to start thinking about coordinating the "whole
product" as Subversion is know to the wider user community, the same way
that other aggregate projects coordinate. If there are lots of deriviate
works that carry the SVN or Subversion name but are outside of the sphere
of the "whole product", that makes managing a positive "whole product"
experience much, much tougher.
This is why, for example, the Apache Software Foundation is pretty fierce
about protecting the use of its name - they don't want to see people
releasing products called "ApachePro" or "Apache++" or "MS Apache",
because of that confusion, but also because it's using someone else's name
without having earned the right to it. Even if "SmartSVN" isn't too far
from other examples we've allowed, and even if I can trust that the
intentions of the SmartSVN developers are to contribute back from time to
time, I worry that we're slipping down a slope in a direction we don't
want to head in.
To be clear, I've got *no* problem with companies building commercial
and/or proprietary derivative works from Subversion source code. The
more, the merrier, because that should lead (in theory) to more developers
and more development across the board.
To date, seeing examples of this have just been somewhat annoying to me,
but I've held my tongue on the basis of "let's see where it goes". I
hoped the community would feel the same kind of urge and eventually
someone would say something. Maybe that conversation has already been
had, and I missed it. Or, maybe people are *expecting* CollabNet to
provide some sort of leadership here. I'm sorry to pick on SmartSVN and
Marc, and do admit that it was the end of a long week and it was more an
accumulation of events rather than specifically SmartSVN. But am I the
only one who feels this way?
Brian
[1] - check it out. turns out not to be such a hypothetical example.
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Re: SmartSVN - a new Subversion client.
Posted by kf...@collab.net.
Brian Behlendorf <br...@collab.net> writes:
> Any particular reason you are using the "SVN" abbreviation in the name
> of a product that isn't part of the Subversion project, or even open
> source?
>
> I guess the rest of us will keep using "DumbSVN"...
Marc, just to clarify:
I think what Brian's objecting to is not the mere presence of the
string "SVN" in your product's name. Plenty of Subversion-related
projects already have that, as a glance at our Links page will show.
The issue is more the *combination* of that name, "SVN", with the fact
that you're offering something that takes the place of the 'svn'
client already offered by the Subversion project.
Now, we have no objection to people offering alternative clients --
unsolicited competition is the norm in open source, no problem there.
But there is a potential for identity confusion here: the prefix
"Smart" is fairly generic (unlike, say, "Tortoise"), and since the
product is not open-source, it would be difficult to integrate it into
Subversion's loosely-organized support community. For example, bug
reports could not be responded to with fixes, nor even with pointers
as to how to make fixes.
Thus the software doesn't distinguish itself from mainline Subversion
with complete clarity (although the prefix "Smart" does have some
distinguishing effect, I admit), and may surprise some users by not
being open source (since most things which bear the string "SVN" are
open source).
I realize you're building on the earlier name "SmartCVS", just as
"TortoiseSVN" did on "TortoiseCVS"; and that all the objections I
mention above could equally be applied to "SmartCVS". Personally, I'm
not sure how worried I am about the situation -- but I did want to try
to clarify Brian's comments, since they might have seemed surprising,
given the number of other projects that contain "SVN" in their name.
His point is subtle, but not without merit.
Hope this helps,
-Karl
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Re: SmartSVN - a new Subversion client.
Posted by Brian Behlendorf <br...@collab.net>.
Any particular reason you are using the "SVN" abbreviation in the name of
a product that isn't part of the Subversion project, or even open source?
I guess the rest of us will keep using "DumbSVN"...
Brian
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005, Marc Strapetz wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> we have started Early Access Program for SmartSVN, a new Subversion client
> which is based on TMate's JavaSVN. The current version supports the basic
> Subversion commands. For more details -- planned features, downloads,
> mailing list -- please refer to http://www.smartsvn.com/smartsvn/index.html.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Marc Strapetz.
> _______________
> smartsvn.com
>
>
>
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