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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> on 2011/08/21 04:06:03 UTC
Websites of retired podlings (was Re: Retired podlings with RW SVN
access)
On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 05:25:00PM -0400, Benson Margulies wrote:
> >> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 02:59:33PM +0300, Daniel Shahaf wrote:
> >> > Gavin McDonald wrote on Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 16:35:47 +1000:
> >> > > The retirement guide [1] makes no mention of removing podling
> >> > > websites but I think they should all be removed at retirement,
> >> > > thoughts?
> >> >
> >> > This doesn't need to be on private@...
> >>
> >> Good catch, Daniel. My preference would be to avoid erasing podling web
> >> presences on retirement,
>
> If an RO svn is retained, some sort of web presence explaining it
> makes sense to me. But I agree that a pseudo-active-project web site
> is not the right sort of web presence.
Yes, I also agree that a site which misleads visitors into thinking that a
retired podling is active is not desirable.
When a top-level project enters the Attic, its website gets updated to reflect
the fact that it has been retired. For instance, all of Hivemind's web pages
have a big red banner alerting visitors to the project's status:
http://hivemind.apache.org/
http://hivemind.apache.org/download.html
Provided that someone is willing to do that work, that there is zero ongoing
maintenance burden, and that there are no practical or legal difficulties, I
think something similar would also be OK for a retired podling -- however,
that's not necessarily my preferred approach.
Another option which might be cleaner and less burdensome to administer would
be to create a boilerplate "Retired Podling" static html page which would
replace the website for any podling which does not graduate. This page would
give a brief explanation of the project's history and status and point at any
remaining resources, such as read-only SVN if the podling completed a
successful code grant.
If there is interest in that idea, I volunteer to help create the template for
the "Retired Podling" page.
I have two objectives with this proposal. The first is practical: we should aid
users who may come looking for a project to learn what happened to it with
minimal effort.
The other goal is to help podlings retire with dignity. Every software project
has a life cycle, there are many reasons why a podling might not make it
to graduation, and a lot may have been accomplished during an attempt at
incubation. I think our default policy should be to recognize and celebrate
the contributions that a podling's volunteers made while it was active.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Websites of retired podlings (was Re: Retired podlings with RW
SVN access)
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 07:04:31PM -0700, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 10:26:24AM +0200, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
> > > Another option which might be cleaner and less burdensome to administer would
> > > be to create a boilerplate "Retired Podling" static html page which would
> > > replace the website for any podling which does not graduate. This page would
> > > give a brief explanation of the project's history and status and point at any
> > > remaining resources, such as read-only SVN if the podling completed a
> > > successful code grant.
> > >
> > > If there is interest in that idea, I volunteer to help create the template for
> > > the "Retired Podling" page.
> >
> > I like that idea. But we should the folder i.a.o/retiredpodling
> > not simply have a httpd redirect rule pointing to the incubator status page?
> > The state of the podling is reflected there very well and there is
> > even a chance to send a personal message
>
> That also sounds like a decent way of handling things.
>
> My preference is still to create dedicated pages, if such pages can be made to
> look respectable and can be put into place with minimal effort by the person
> performing the retirement. If a template contribution does not materialize in
> the next few days from me, though, redirecting to the status page seems like
> an OK fallback.
More than a week has passed and I have not managed to get a template
contribution submitted. It's time to get out of Gavin's way and say thanks to
him for taking the initiative.
I withdraw my own proposal and endorse Christian's proposal.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Websites of retired podlings (was Re: Retired podlings with RW
SVN access)
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 10:26:24AM +0200, Christian Grobmeier wrote:
> > Another option which might be cleaner and less burdensome to administer would
> > be to create a boilerplate "Retired Podling" static html page which would
> > replace the website for any podling which does not graduate. This page would
> > give a brief explanation of the project's history and status and point at any
> > remaining resources, such as read-only SVN if the podling completed a
> > successful code grant.
> >
> > If there is interest in that idea, I volunteer to help create the template for
> > the "Retired Podling" page.
>
> I like that idea. But we should the folder i.a.o/retiredpodling
> not simply have a httpd redirect rule pointing to the incubator status page?
> The state of the podling is reflected there very well and there is
> even a chance to send a personal message
That also sounds like a decent way of handling things.
My preference is still to create dedicated pages, if such pages can be made to
look respectable and can be put into place with minimal effort by the person
performing the retirement. If a template contribution does not materialize in
the next few days from me, though, redirecting to the status page seems like
an OK fallback.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Websites of retired podlings (was Re: Retired podlings with RW
SVN access)
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
> Another option which might be cleaner and less burdensome to administer would
> be to create a boilerplate "Retired Podling" static html page which would
> replace the website for any podling which does not graduate. This page would
> give a brief explanation of the project's history and status and point at any
> remaining resources, such as read-only SVN if the podling completed a
> successful code grant.
>
> If there is interest in that idea, I volunteer to help create the template for
> the "Retired Podling" page.
I like that idea. But we should the folder i.a.o/retiredpodling
not simply have a httpd redirect rule pointing to the incubator status page?
The state of the podling is reflected there very well and there is
even a chance to send a personal message
Christian
>
> I have two objectives with this proposal. The first is practical: we should aid
> users who may come looking for a project to learn what happened to it with
> minimal effort.
>
> The other goal is to help podlings retire with dignity. Every software project
> has a life cycle, there are many reasons why a podling might not make it
> to graduation, and a lot may have been accomplished during an attempt at
> incubation. I think our default policy should be to recognize and celebrate
> the contributions that a podling's volunteers made while it was active.
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
http://www.grobmeier.de
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Re: Websites of retired podlings (was Re: Retired podlings with RW
SVN access)
Posted by Mohammad Nour El-Din <no...@gmail.com>.
On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 4:06 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 05:25:00PM -0400, Benson Margulies wrote:
>> >> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 02:59:33PM +0300, Daniel Shahaf wrote:
>> >> > Gavin McDonald wrote on Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 16:35:47 +1000:
>> >> > > The retirement guide [1] makes no mention of removing podling
>> >> > > websites but I think they should all be removed at retirement,
>> >> > > thoughts?
>> >> >
>> >> > This doesn't need to be on private@...
>> >>
>> >> Good catch, Daniel. My preference would be to avoid erasing podling web
>> >> presences on retirement,
>>
>> If an RO svn is retained, some sort of web presence explaining it
>> makes sense to me. But I agree that a pseudo-active-project web site
>> is not the right sort of web presence.
>
> Yes, I also agree that a site which misleads visitors into thinking that a
> retired podling is active is not desirable.
>
> When a top-level project enters the Attic, its website gets updated to reflect
> the fact that it has been retired. For instance, all of Hivemind's web pages
> have a big red banner alerting visitors to the project's status:
>
> http://hivemind.apache.org/
> http://hivemind.apache.org/download.html
>
> Provided that someone is willing to do that work, that there is zero ongoing
> maintenance burden, and that there are no practical or legal difficulties, I
> think something similar would also be OK for a retired podling -- however,
> that's not necessarily my preferred approach.
>
> Another option which might be cleaner and less burdensome to administer would
> be to create a boilerplate "Retired Podling" static html page which would
> replace the website for any podling which does not graduate. This page would
> give a brief explanation of the project's history and status and point at any
> remaining resources, such as read-only SVN if the podling completed a
> successful code grant.
>
> If there is interest in that idea, I volunteer to help create the template for
> the "Retired Podling" page.
+1
>
> I have two objectives with this proposal. The first is practical: we should aid
> users who may come looking for a project to learn what happened to it with
> minimal effort.
>
> The other goal is to help podlings retire with dignity. Every software project
> has a life cycle, there are many reasons why a podling might not make it
> to graduation, and a lot may have been accomplished during an attempt at
> incubation. I think our default policy should be to recognize and celebrate
> the contributions that a podling's volunteers made while it was active.
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Thanks
- Mohammad Nour
----
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
- Albert Einstein
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Re: Websites of retired podlings (was Re: Retired podlings with RW
SVN access)
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 10:32:10AM -0700, Henri Yandell wrote:
> Btw, the work is a search and replace on the <body... > tag. I
> generally find one that works on the site content but fails on javadoc
> (as inserting a header into a <frame> system is painful).
I'm glad to hear that munging a TLP website doesn't typically require
extravagant effort. Nevertheless, tidying up after retired podlings isn't
the most glamourous work, and I think we would do well to minimize the burden
on the valuable volunteers who are willing to step up. ;)
Performing a search and replace isn't a big deal for one page, but doing it
for a lot of pages is a pain, and then the real deal killer is that someone
has to assess whether the result is acceptable and troubleshoot it if it's
not. What if the podling didn't have it's act together and it turns out that
the existing site had problems? We wouldn't expect a TLP to be in that
situation under ordinary circumstances, but podlings have problems --
otherwise they'd be TLPs. :)
All in all, I think that it's best if the person doing the retirement doesn't
have to perform any inspection of existing website material. It's less work
to wipe the site and swap in some sort of known-safe replacement.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Websites of retired podlings (was Re: Retired podlings with RW
SVN access)
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 7:06 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 05:25:00PM -0400, Benson Margulies wrote:
>> >> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 02:59:33PM +0300, Daniel Shahaf wrote:
>> >> > Gavin McDonald wrote on Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 16:35:47 +1000:
>> >> > > The retirement guide [1] makes no mention of removing podling
>> >> > > websites but I think they should all be removed at retirement,
>> >> > > thoughts?
>> >> >
>> >> > This doesn't need to be on private@...
>> >>
>> >> Good catch, Daniel. My preference would be to avoid erasing podling web
>> >> presences on retirement,
>>
>> If an RO svn is retained, some sort of web presence explaining it
>> makes sense to me. But I agree that a pseudo-active-project web site
>> is not the right sort of web presence.
>
> Yes, I also agree that a site which misleads visitors into thinking that a
> retired podling is active is not desirable.
>
> When a top-level project enters the Attic, its website gets updated to reflect
> the fact that it has been retired. For instance, all of Hivemind's web pages
> have a big red banner alerting visitors to the project's status:
>
> http://hivemind.apache.org/
> http://hivemind.apache.org/download.html
>
> Provided that someone is willing to do that work, that there is zero ongoing
> maintenance burden, and that there are no practical or legal difficulties, I
> think something similar would also be OK for a retired podling -- however,
> that's not necessarily my preferred approach.
Btw, the work is a search and replace on the <body... > tag. I
generally find one that works on the site content but fails on javadoc
(as inserting a header into a <frame> system is painful).
Hen
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