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Posted to dev@maven.apache.org by dr2238 <re...@gmail.com> on 2008/10/24 19:07:47 UTC
Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference bwteen ant and maven?
I have knowledge on ant, but doesn't have any knowledge on
maven. I heard other say ant is kind of procedural language , while maven
is an objected oriented language.
Is that true? Could anyone explain it to me a little bit? It would be
great if you can show me some small examples to let me understand what is
the difference between them.
thanks a lot for your help
Daniel
Re: Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference bwteen ant and maven?
Posted by Gilles Scokart <gs...@gmail.com>.
You could also ask the same question on the ant user list. You may
have a quiet different answer.
;-)
2008/10/24 Oleg Gusakov <ol...@gmail.com>:
> Daniel,
>
> The difference if that with Ant you write an Assembler-like program: you can
> do a lot, but maintainability is like current economy - very low. And here
> you always have to write what to do and how to do it, like for <javac/> you
> have to tell it where the sources are, where the output should go.
>
> With Maven - you write a SQL statement: you don't tell it how to do things,
> just say what needs to be done, and maven will figure out the way to do it.
> If you compile java classes - you don't even have to mention the compiler -
> Maven defalts will take care of that.
>
> For examples - you can check the book: http://www.sonatype.com/book
>
> I think that if there is more that one person working on a project - Ant is
> a dead end for a build system.
>
> Overall - please ask these kind of questions on the user list, this one is
> mainly for developing maven itself.
>
> dr2238 wrote:
>>
>> I have knowledge on ant, but doesn't have any knowledge on
>> maven. I heard other say ant is kind of procedural language , while
>> maven
>> is an objected oriented language.
>>
>> Is that true? Could anyone explain it to me a little bit? It would be
>> great if you can show me some small examples to let me understand what is
>> the difference between them.
>>
>>
>> thanks a lot for your help
>>
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
--
Gilles Scokart
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RE: Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference bwteen ant and maven?
Posted by Jeff Jensen <je...@upstairstechnology.com>.
I like your analogy Brian.
Additionally, I think the Sonatype Maven book has a nice comparison:
http://www.sonatype.com/book/reference/introduction.html#sect-compare-ant-maven
(and I think this is a User-list question, not a Developer-list one?)
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian E. Fox [mailto:brianf@reply.infinity.nu]
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 8:21 PM
To: Maven Developers List
Cc: raiello@acm.org
Subject: RE: Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference bwteen ant and maven?
Na, ant is the hammer and the wrench where you fix it yourself. Maven is the contractor you hire and tell him what to build.
-----Original Message-----
From: Oleg Gusakov [mailto:oleg.subscriptions@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 9:03 PM
To: Maven Developers List
Cc: raiello@acm.org
Subject: Re: Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference bwteen ant and maven?
I hope we are both on the same page that assembler, like ant, is a
procedural language, while both Maven and SQL could be characterized as
non-procedural, a.k.a. declarative.
Ant is a good OS-independent shell, while Maven is "code comprehension"
tool, that also happens to be a superior build system. They are
different is this respect: one can use a wrench on the nails, but hammer
is a way more efficient. I argue that Maven is that hammer :)
Bob Aiello wrote:
> um er - I don't agree with the characterization that Ant is
> "Assembler"-like.
> The term procedural might be a better choice, but I would prefer to not
> get into a religious debate. I had shared a few of my experiences with
> Ant and Maven in a couple of my articles on CM Crossroads
> (www.cmcrossroads.com).
> Here is one where I try to draw a distinction between Ant and Maven.
> http://www.cmcrossroads.com/content/view/10027/174/
>
> I am looking for a few writers to submit articles for CM Basics next
> week. Writing about your practical experiences is an amazing way to
> share best practices. (I will help you with the editing so don't worry
> if you are new to writing :-)
>
> Bob Aiello
> Editor in Chief
> CM Crossroads
> email raiello [at] acm.org
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/BobAiello
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oleg Gusakov"
> <ol...@gmail.com>
> To: "Maven Developers List" <de...@maven.apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference
> bwteen ant and maven?
>
>
>> Daniel,
>>
>> The difference if that with Ant you write an Assembler-like program:
>> you can do a lot, but maintainability is like current economy - very
>> low. And here you always have to write what to do and how to do it,
>> like for <javac/> you have to tell it where the sources are, where
>> the output should go.
>>
>> With Maven - you write a SQL statement: you don't tell it how to do
>> things, just say what needs to be done, and maven will figure out the
>> way to do it. If you compile java classes - you don't even have to
>> mention the compiler - Maven defalts will take care of that.
>>
>> For examples - you can check the book: http://www.sonatype.com/book
>>
>> I think that if there is more that one person working on a project -
>> Ant is a dead end for a build system.
>>
>> Overall - please ask these kind of questions on the user list, this
>> one is mainly for developing maven itself.
>>
>> dr2238 wrote:
>>> I have knowledge on ant, but doesn't have any
>>> knowledge on
>>> maven. I heard other say ant is kind of procedural language ,
>>> while maven
>>> is an objected oriented language.
>>>
>>> Is that true? Could anyone explain it to me a little bit? It
>>> would be
>>> great if you can show me some small examples to let me understand
>>> what is
>>> the difference between them.
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks a lot for your help
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference bwteen ant and maven?
Posted by "Brian E. Fox" <br...@reply.infinity.nu>.
Na, ant is the hammer and the wrench where you fix it yourself. Maven is the contractor you hire and tell him what to build.
-----Original Message-----
From: Oleg Gusakov [mailto:oleg.subscriptions@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 9:03 PM
To: Maven Developers List
Cc: raiello@acm.org
Subject: Re: Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference bwteen ant and maven?
I hope we are both on the same page that assembler, like ant, is a
procedural language, while both Maven and SQL could be characterized as
non-procedural, a.k.a. declarative.
Ant is a good OS-independent shell, while Maven is "code comprehension"
tool, that also happens to be a superior build system. They are
different is this respect: one can use a wrench on the nails, but hammer
is a way more efficient. I argue that Maven is that hammer :)
Bob Aiello wrote:
> um er - I don't agree with the characterization that Ant is
> "Assembler"-like.
> The term procedural might be a better choice, but I would prefer to not
> get into a religious debate. I had shared a few of my experiences with
> Ant and Maven in a couple of my articles on CM Crossroads
> (www.cmcrossroads.com).
> Here is one where I try to draw a distinction between Ant and Maven.
> http://www.cmcrossroads.com/content/view/10027/174/
>
> I am looking for a few writers to submit articles for CM Basics next
> week. Writing about your practical experiences is an amazing way to
> share best practices. (I will help you with the editing so don't worry
> if you are new to writing :-)
>
> Bob Aiello
> Editor in Chief
> CM Crossroads
> email raiello [at] acm.org
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/BobAiello
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oleg Gusakov"
> <ol...@gmail.com>
> To: "Maven Developers List" <de...@maven.apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference
> bwteen ant and maven?
>
>
>> Daniel,
>>
>> The difference if that with Ant you write an Assembler-like program:
>> you can do a lot, but maintainability is like current economy - very
>> low. And here you always have to write what to do and how to do it,
>> like for <javac/> you have to tell it where the sources are, where
>> the output should go.
>>
>> With Maven - you write a SQL statement: you don't tell it how to do
>> things, just say what needs to be done, and maven will figure out the
>> way to do it. If you compile java classes - you don't even have to
>> mention the compiler - Maven defalts will take care of that.
>>
>> For examples - you can check the book: http://www.sonatype.com/book
>>
>> I think that if there is more that one person working on a project -
>> Ant is a dead end for a build system.
>>
>> Overall - please ask these kind of questions on the user list, this
>> one is mainly for developing maven itself.
>>
>> dr2238 wrote:
>>> I have knowledge on ant, but doesn't have any
>>> knowledge on
>>> maven. I heard other say ant is kind of procedural language ,
>>> while maven
>>> is an objected oriented language.
>>>
>>> Is that true? Could anyone explain it to me a little bit? It
>>> would be
>>> great if you can show me some small examples to let me understand
>>> what is
>>> the difference between them.
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks a lot for your help
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
Re: Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference bwteen
ant and maven?
Posted by Oleg Gusakov <ol...@gmail.com>.
I hope we are both on the same page that assembler, like ant, is a
procedural language, while both Maven and SQL could be characterized as
non-procedural, a.k.a. declarative.
Ant is a good OS-independent shell, while Maven is "code comprehension"
tool, that also happens to be a superior build system. They are
different is this respect: one can use a wrench on the nails, but hammer
is a way more efficient. I argue that Maven is that hammer :)
Bob Aiello wrote:
> um er - I don't agree with the characterization that Ant is
> "Assembler"-like.
> The term procedural might be a better choice, but I would prefer to not
> get into a religious debate. I had shared a few of my experiences with
> Ant and Maven in a couple of my articles on CM Crossroads
> (www.cmcrossroads.com).
> Here is one where I try to draw a distinction between Ant and Maven.
> http://www.cmcrossroads.com/content/view/10027/174/
>
> I am looking for a few writers to submit articles for CM Basics next
> week. Writing about your practical experiences is an amazing way to
> share best practices. (I will help you with the editing so don't worry
> if you are new to writing :-)
>
> Bob Aiello
> Editor in Chief
> CM Crossroads
> email raiello [at] acm.org
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/BobAiello
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oleg Gusakov"
> <ol...@gmail.com>
> To: "Maven Developers List" <de...@maven.apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference
> bwteen ant and maven?
>
>
>> Daniel,
>>
>> The difference if that with Ant you write an Assembler-like program:
>> you can do a lot, but maintainability is like current economy - very
>> low. And here you always have to write what to do and how to do it,
>> like for <javac/> you have to tell it where the sources are, where
>> the output should go.
>>
>> With Maven - you write a SQL statement: you don't tell it how to do
>> things, just say what needs to be done, and maven will figure out the
>> way to do it. If you compile java classes - you don't even have to
>> mention the compiler - Maven defalts will take care of that.
>>
>> For examples - you can check the book: http://www.sonatype.com/book
>>
>> I think that if there is more that one person working on a project -
>> Ant is a dead end for a build system.
>>
>> Overall - please ask these kind of questions on the user list, this
>> one is mainly for developing maven itself.
>>
>> dr2238 wrote:
>>> I have knowledge on ant, but doesn't have any
>>> knowledge on
>>> maven. I heard other say ant is kind of procedural language ,
>>> while maven
>>> is an objected oriented language.
>>>
>>> Is that true? Could anyone explain it to me a little bit? It
>>> would be
>>> great if you can show me some small examples to let me understand
>>> what is
>>> the difference between them.
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks a lot for your help
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
Re: Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference bwteen ant
and maven?
Posted by Bob Aiello <ra...@acm.org>.
um er - I don't agree with the characterization that Ant is
"Assembler"-like.
The term procedural might be a better choice, but I would prefer to not
get into a religious debate. I had shared a few of my experiences with
Ant and Maven in a couple of my articles on CM Crossroads
(www.cmcrossroads.com).
Here is one where I try to draw a distinction between Ant and Maven.
http://www.cmcrossroads.com/content/view/10027/174/
I am looking for a few writers to submit articles for CM Basics next
week. Writing about your practical experiences is an amazing way to
share best practices. (I will help you with the editing so don't worry
if you are new to writing :-)
Bob Aiello
Editor in Chief
CM Crossroads
email raiello [at] acm.org
http://www.linkedin.com/in/BobAiello
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oleg Gusakov" <ol...@gmail.com>
To: "Maven Developers List" <de...@maven.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference bwteen
ant and maven?
> Daniel,
>
> The difference if that with Ant you write an Assembler-like program: you
> can do a lot, but maintainability is like current economy - very low. And
> here you always have to write what to do and how to do it, like for
> <javac/> you have to tell it where the sources are, where the output
> should go.
>
> With Maven - you write a SQL statement: you don't tell it how to do
> things, just say what needs to be done, and maven will figure out the way
> to do it. If you compile java classes - you don't even have to mention the
> compiler - Maven defalts will take care of that.
>
> For examples - you can check the book: http://www.sonatype.com/book
>
> I think that if there is more that one person working on a project - Ant
> is a dead end for a build system.
>
> Overall - please ask these kind of questions on the user list, this one is
> mainly for developing maven itself.
>
> dr2238 wrote:
>> I have knowledge on ant, but doesn't have any knowledge on
>> maven. I heard other say ant is kind of procedural language , while
>> maven
>> is an objected oriented language.
>>
>> Is that true? Could anyone explain it to me a little bit? It would
>> be
>> great if you can show me some small examples to let me understand what is
>> the difference between them.
>>
>>
>> thanks a lot for your help
>>
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
Re: Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference bwteen
ant and maven?
Posted by Oleg Gusakov <ol...@gmail.com>.
Daniel,
The difference if that with Ant you write an Assembler-like program: you
can do a lot, but maintainability is like current economy - very low.
And here you always have to write what to do and how to do it, like for
<javac/> you have to tell it where the sources are, where the output
should go.
With Maven - you write a SQL statement: you don't tell it how to do
things, just say what needs to be done, and maven will figure out the
way to do it. If you compile java classes - you don't even have to
mention the compiler - Maven defalts will take care of that.
For examples - you can check the book: http://www.sonatype.com/book
I think that if there is more that one person working on a project - Ant
is a dead end for a build system.
Overall - please ask these kind of questions on the user list, this one
is mainly for developing maven itself.
dr2238 wrote:
> I have knowledge on ant, but doesn't have any knowledge on
> maven. I heard other say ant is kind of procedural language , while maven
> is an objected oriented language.
>
> Is that true? Could anyone explain it to me a little bit? It would be
> great if you can show me some small examples to let me understand what is
> the difference between them.
>
>
> thanks a lot for your help
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
RE: Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference bwteen
ant and maven?
Posted by Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com>.
Great question btw!
Ant is xml-based target driven build environment
each task(s) corresponds to a particular piece of build functionality such as jsp-compile,compile,jar,war or ear
which must be completed in order so that the web-application (war) or application enterprise app (ear) can deploy
Currently ant has no capability (and just as soon as I say this someone could release a new jar with these functions) to
define repositories (offline/online)
no ability to interface to 'the build system' thru a predefined plugin interface
The biggest challenge i found with ant is no ability to handle version specific build environment configurations
e.g.
fu.jar needs to be 1.0
bar.jar needs to be 1.1
fubar.jar needs fu.jar (1.0 version) and bar.jar (1.1 version) to work properly..
Anyone?
Martin
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> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:28:13 -0500
> From: ren99daniel@gmail.com
> To: users@maven.apache.org
> Subject: Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference bwteen ant and maven?
>
> I have knowledge on ant, but doesn't have any knowledge on
> maven. I heard other say ant is kind of procedural language , while maven
> is an objected oriented language.
>
> Is that true? Could anyone explain it to me a little bit? It would be
> great if you can show me some small examples to let me understand what is
> the difference between them.
>
>
> thanks a lot for your help
>
>
> Daniel
_________________________________________________________________
Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how.
http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008
Re: Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference bwteen
ant and maven?
Posted by "David C. Hicks" <dh...@i-hicks.org>.
I would suggest you do a Google search using "ant maven compare" and
choose any one of the myriad links that appear. Some will be slanted
one way or the other.
Neither Ant nor Maven are "languages" in the traditional sense. They
could be considered DSL's (domain specific languages) whose purpose is
to configure and execute the building of software and/or related tasks.
That's pretty much where the similarities end, IMO.
Dave
dr2238 wrote:
> I have knowledge on ant, but doesn't have any knowledge on
> maven. I heard other say ant is kind of procedural language , while maven
> is an objected oriented language.
>
> Is that true? Could anyone explain it to me a little bit? It would be
> great if you can show me some small examples to let me understand what is
> the difference between them.
>
>
> thanks a lot for your help
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
Re: Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference bwteen
ant and maven?
Posted by Graham Leggett <mi...@sharp.fm>.
dr2238 wrote:
> I have knowledge on ant, but doesn't have any knowledge on
> maven. I heard other say ant is kind of procedural language , while maven
> is an objected oriented language.
> Is that true? Could anyone explain it to me a little bit? It would be
> great if you can show me some small examples to let me understand what is
> the difference between them.
They are very different from one another.
Ant is effectively a scripting language: you give ant a sequence of
tasks to do, and ant will go off and do those tasks for you.
Like any scripting language, ant is entirely useless without a script to
run (aka the build.xml file).
And the ant script has to be written by you: ant isn't going to do
anything unless you tell ant how to do it.
Way back when, people realised that people were writing the same ant
scripts, doing very similar things, over and over again, resulting in
incompatible and incomplete behaviour.
Surely if someone wrote just one ant script, and everyone used the same
script, life would be much easier for everybody. In fact, life would be
even easier if we could write the script in java directly and release it
like we do any other java code.
And so maven was born.
Maven is not a scripting language. Maven is not a language at all.
Maven is like a butler: it knows how to do stuff.
"Maven, build my jar file and run the tests."
"Certainly sir."
Of course, in order to do useful stuff for you, maven needs to know a
few details about your project. Before it can build your jar file, it
needs to know your project's name and the current version so that it can
give your jar file a sensible name.
This is where pom.xml comes in.
The POM is the place where everything maven needs to know is stored.
The more information you add to your POM file, the more maven can do for
you, without expecting you to tell maven how to do it, like you have to
do with ant.
If you tell maven what jars your project depends on, maven can
automatically download those jars for you. When your project depends on
50 jars, that is one serious timesaver, and 50 less things you have to
care about.
Tell maven what kind of test library you use, and maven can run your
tests for you as part of the build (mvn test).
If you tell maven that you use eclipse, maven can set up your eclipse
environment for you. Getting up and running in your IDE becomes a single
simple command, instead of 45 minutes of clicking the mouse (mvn
eclipse:eclipse).
You can ask maven to build your javadocs for you. You already told maven
where your source was, so maven has everything it needs to build the
javadocs, without you having to tell it how (mvn javadoc).
In fact, maven knows how to build lots of different kinds of
autogenerated documentation, and package them together into an
autogenerated website for you with helpful menu navigation (mvn site).
And if you tell maven where the documentation should be uploaded to,
maven can upload your site to your documentation webserver automatically
(mvn site:deploy).
At this point you're probably wondering how you will remember all these
different maven commands when the time comes to tag a release of your code.
Surely there must be a simple way for maven to sanity check your code to
check whether it is properly checked in, test that your test suite runs
correctly, tag your release, bump up the version numbers on all the
files in source control to the next version number, check out a pristine
copy of your tag, build the code, deploy the code to your release
repository, build the documentation, upload the documentation for your
release to your documentation website, all in one easy and pain free step?
There is:
mvn release:prepare release:perform
That's it.
Seriously.
You might start wondering what would happen if you had to tell maven
about each and every detail about your project: wouldn't it get out of hand?
Of course it would, which is why maven introduces the concept of
sensible defaults.
Some information, like the project name, is mandatory. But other
information, like where your source code lives, has a sensible default.
Put your source code where maven expects to find it (src/main/java) and
you no longer have to tell maven where your source code is, maven
already knows.
And if maven already knows where your source code is, then your fellow
developers know where your source code is, without them having to look
it up.
By sticking to the maven standard way of laying out your project, there
is lots of information that you no longer need to tell maven about, or
your fellow developers about. That means less work, less confusion, and
less documentation.
You have just downloaded a project you have never seen before in your
life. The project builds using maven. That means "mvn install" will
build and install your code. You didn't need to read any documentation
or instructions, you already knew how to build the project, just because
it followed the maven standard.
Can maven do absolutely everything you might need it to do?
No: but that is why maven can include snippets of ant scripts in the
configuration, to allow you to script up any special behaviour you like.
Or you could write a new maven plugin that does what you need for you,
and in so doing teach maven how to do more stuff.
To sum up: ant is a scripting language, but maven is a butler. If given
the choice, choose the butler.
Regards,
Graham
--
Could anyone give me some idea what is the difference bwteen ant and maven?
Posted by dr2238 <re...@gmail.com>.
I have knowledge on ant, but doesn't have any knowledge on
maven. I heard other say ant is kind of procedural language , while maven
is an objected oriented language.
Is that true? Could anyone explain it to me a little bit? It would be
great if you can show me some small examples to let me understand what is
the difference between them.
thanks a lot for your help
Daniel