Re: Radical revamp

[Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>]

On 17/08/2010 03:00, Noel J. Bergman wrote:

> I think that it is a very interesting proposal, that could work very well in
> specific circumstances, and I'd be willing to see it tried as an experiment,
> if the Board buys into it.  Do we have any such projects pending or already
> in the Incubator?

I'd be up for trying this, or whatever the board and IPMC approve, with 
the project I mentioned in the other thread. Problem there is that we 
don't know how long the legal stuff will be "in progress" or that the 
proposal will even be accepted.

Anything from a couple of weeks to a few months would be my guess at 
this point.

Ross

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Re: Radical revamp

[Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>]

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 22:07, Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 17/08/2010 03:00, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>
>> I think that it is a very interesting proposal, that could work very well
>> in
>> specific circumstances, and I'd be willing to see it tried as an
>> experiment,
>> if the Board buys into it.  Do we have any such projects pending or
>> already
>> in the Incubator?
>
> I'd be up for trying this, or whatever the board and IPMC approve, with the
> project I mentioned in the other thread. Problem there is that we don't know
> how long the legal stuff will be "in progress" or that the proposal will
> even be accepted.
>
> Anything from a couple of weeks to a few months would be my guess at this
> point.

This raises some interesting points to refine my blue-sky proposal.

First, the IPMC wouldn't be approving the project's incubation. It
would be the Board setting up the TLP to hold the podling. I'm not
sure how many proposals a month we get at the Incubator... 2 per
month? I think the Board could handle that, but ... with all that
said, it may still want to delegate an "initial discussion/evaluation"
to the Incubator PMC first to weed out noise and refine the proposal.
Then again, given the 3+ Member bar that must be reached... there
won't be many arriving at the ASF with that kind of built-in backing.
This alternate approach will only be available to a subset, I believe.

If the stuff sits in "legal review" for a while, then no big deal. The
Board can still construct an (empty) TLP that will manage the receipt
and review of the software grant. If the originators bail out, then
the TLP just gets shut down. I certainly don't see a big issue here.

Cheers,
-g

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Re: Radical revamp

[Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>]

On 17 Aug 2010, at 03:29, "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> wrote:

> Ross Gardler wrote:
> 
>> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>> I think that it is a very interesting proposal, that could work very
> well in
>>> specific circumstances, and I'd be willing to see it tried as an
> experiment,
>>> if the Board buys into it.  Do we have any such projects pending or
> already
>>> in the Incubator?
> 
>> I'd be up for trying this, or whatever the board and IPMC approve, with
>> the project I mentioned in the other thread.
> 
> You also wrote:
> 
> "Unlike Subversion there are no pre-existing members on the commit list
> and thus noone to shelter the project team from the peanut gallery here
> in general@."

I didn't say there wouldn't be 3+ member mentors though. 

> 
Ross

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RE: Radical revamp

["Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>]

Ross Gardler wrote:

> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > I think that it is a very interesting proposal, that could work very
well in
> > specific circumstances, and I'd be willing to see it tried as an
experiment,
> > if the Board buys into it.  Do we have any such projects pending or
already
> > in the Incubator?

> I'd be up for trying this, or whatever the board and IPMC approve, with
> the project I mentioned in the other thread.

You also wrote:

"Unlike Subversion there are no pre-existing members on the commit list
and thus noone to shelter the project team from the peanut gallery here
in general@."

We need to deal with the negative aspects of the peanut gallery issue, but
we also need to provide oversight and positive, beneficial, guidance.  As
you say, unlike Subversion, this project doesn't have any existing ASF
folks, which means that it likely needs more community work.

In addition to Greg's structural partitioning, perhaps we need to work on
Incubation Etiquette, and get people to voluntarily stop doing drive-bys?

	--- Noel



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