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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by RBS100 <rb...@gmx.com> on 2009/03/09 07:53:26 UTC
Max Number of users
Hi,
Can any tell the maximum number of users can login into tomcat at the same
time?
Can I use tomcat to run in an online internet application used by n number
of users and the application runs for 24*7?
Is it reliable?
Thanks
RBS
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Re: Max Number of users
Posted by Gregor Schneider <rc...@googlemail.com>.
Well, maybe this list helps to answer the question about Tomcat's reliablity:
http://wiki.apache.org/tomcat/PoweredBy
Besides, I guess a lot of companies (like us) don't advertise using
Tomcat due to security-concerns.
I'm just wondering if the OP could digest any information from those
answers now ;)
Rgds
Gregor
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RE: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: Gregor Schneider [mailto:rc46fi@googlemail.com]
> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
> I guess you should apply at the NSA or similar.
National Seafood Agency?
> I'm afraid the beer will go to André then :)
I'm sure he'll appreciate it. Have fun there.
- Chuck
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Gregor Schneider <rc...@googlemail.com>.
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 10:24 AM, André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com> wrote:
>
> You might want to send him a bar of dark chocolate instead.
>
Chuck's a sweettooth? Hm, ok, then I'll have to do some clandestine
work and will try to find his adress.
Since I don't want to post his private adress on this list, I'm gonna
send my results to Chuck privately. If my spywork was successful,
he'll get his bar
Cheers!
Gregor
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com>.
Gregor Schneider wrote:
> Chuck,
>
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:52 AM, Caldarale, Charles R
> <Ch...@unisys.com> wrote:
>> Unfortunately, I don't drink beer, and I'm not likely to get to Amsterdam in two weeks (although it is tempting - more so if it were a bit warmer :-).
>>
>
> Hm, I guess you'll be missing quite something. I'm afraid the beer
> will go to André then :)
>
I'll happily act as Chuck's stand-in, or proxy, for the beer.
You might want to send him a bar of dark chocolate instead.
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Gregor Schneider <rc...@googlemail.com>.
Chuck,
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:52 AM, Caldarale, Charles R
<Ch...@unisys.com> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, I don't drink beer, and I'm not likely to get to Amsterdam in two weeks (although it is tempting - more so if it were a bit warmer :-).
>
Hm, I guess you'll be missing quite something. I'm afraid the beer
will go to André then :)
Gregor
--
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Gregor Schneider <rc...@googlemail.com>.
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 10:15 PM, André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com> wrote:
> Gregor Schneider wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:09 PM, André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Jeppesen GmbH ?
>>
>> Nope :)
>>
> Nokia ?
>
Would I be using an iPhone then?
Besides, Nokia closed down all German locations moving them to *sic*
Eastern Europe. Well, now they're closing down in Eastern Europe...
Come on, André, can't be all that difficult to earn your free beer ;)
Gregor
PS.: That was a *nope*
--
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Gregor Schneider <rc...@googlemail.com>.
Chris,
On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Christopher Schultz
<ch...@christopherschultz.net> wrote:
>
> Generator: 10 fingers and some brain
>
> Cute.
>
I do have the copyright on that one, however, I put it under the GPL -
ooops - did I say GPL? I mean Apache License 2.0 ;)
Regds
Gregor
--
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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Gregor,
On 3/12/2009 11:24 AM, Gregor Schneider wrote:
> www.tele-underwriting.de
Aw, you don't even give major version number for Apache httpd. Netcraft
will be so sad :(
Generator: 10 fingers and some brain
Cute.
- -chris
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Gregor Schneider <rc...@googlemail.com>.
Chris,
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Christopher Schultz
<ch...@christopherschultz.net> wrote:
>>
>> Kölnische Rückversicherungs-Gesellschaft AG, part of Gen Re, part of one of Jimmy Buffett's relative's companies.
>
> ...and they're running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on their web server ;)
>
That's our coroporate website - not my baby. If it was my baby, I'd
just dump and re-develop.
Just to give you one site (a smaller one) which is within our
responsibility - and to increase the number of backlinks for Google:
www.tele-underwriting.de
or, an older website, which soon will be renewed:
www.compass-webdemo.com
Those sites are using OpenSource-components only - and this won't
change unless somebody else gets in charge - which might take quite a
while *cough*
cheers
Gregor
--
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Gregor <rc...@googlemail.com>.
Chuck,
I guess you should apply at the NSA or similar.
The beer's yours :)
Gregor
Am 10.03.2009 um 00:05 schrieb "Caldarale, Charles R" <Chuck.Caldarale@unisys.com
>:
>> From: Gregor Schneider [mailto:rc46fi@googlemail.com]
>> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
>>
>> I'll provide my business-card in Amsterdam so that you believe me
>> that
>> it's *not* Jeppesen
>
> Kölnische Rückversicherungs-Gesellschaft AG, part of Gen Re, part of
> one of Jimmy Buffett's relative's companies.
>
> Your motorcycle gave you away.
>
> - Chuck
>
>
> THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE
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> recipient. If you received this in error, please contact the sender
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RE: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: Rainer Jung [mailto:rainer.jung@kippdata.de]
> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
>
> Uh-oh, if things haven't changed, it seems you won the prize - and
> Gregor lost his privacy ;)
Unfortunately, I don't drink beer, and I'm not likely to get to Amsterdam in two weeks (although it is tempting - more so if it were a bit warmer :-).
- Chuck
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Gregor <rc...@googlemail.com>.
well, again learned something:
never mess with Chuck :)
will keep that in mind
cheers
gregor
Am 10.03.2009 um 00:31 schrieb Rainer Jung <ra...@kippdata.de>:
> On 10.03.2009 00:05, Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
>>> From: Gregor Schneider [mailto:rc46fi@googlemail.com] Subject: Re:
>>> [OT] RE: Max Number of users
>>>
>>> I'll provide my business-card in Amsterdam so that you believe me
>>> that it's *not* Jeppesen
>>
>> Kölnische Rückversicherungs-Gesellschaft AG, part of Gen Re, part
>> of
>> one of Jimmy Buffett's relative's companies.
>>
>> Your motorcycle gave you away.
>
> Uh-oh, if things haven't changed, it seems you won the prize - and
> Gregor lost his privacy ;)
>
> Rainer
>
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RE: Tracking down OOM - PermGen using jmap and jhat
Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: Darryl Pentz [mailto:djpentz@yahoo.com]
> Subject: Re: Tracking down OOM - PermGen using jmap and jhat
>
> I found this thread:
> http://forum.springframework.org/printthread.php?t=21383&pp=40
There's a lot of real BS in that thread. There is one accurate and useful statement:
"What it boils down to is Tomcat's classloader not releasing objects that CGLIB holds in ThreadLocal variables during redeployment"
The classloader cannot, of course, release such objects - it has no knowledge of them. It really is a CGLIB problem, since it's failing to null out ThreadLocal values at the end of processing each request; such behavior is antisocial, at best.
Solving this problem would be difficult in any container using thread pooling. If CGLIB provides some means of cleaning up after itself, you might be able to write a filter that runs at the end of each request to make the necessary calls.
- Chuck
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Re: Tracking down OOM - PermGen using jmap and jhat
Posted by Darryl Pentz <dj...@yahoo.com>.
Hi Chuck,
Thanks. I read that tutorial as you suggested. Very useful information. I think I understand the gist of it. After further reading it seems like there are some issues w.r.t. the use of Spring(and/or)Hibernate together with CGLib that particularly affect Tomcat. I found this thread: http://forum.springframework.org/printthread.php?t=21383&pp=40 which seems to try and point the finger at Tomcat. Does anybody concur with these findings or have you found ways around using Spring/Hibernate/CGLib/Tomcat so that they all get along? It's a bit late in the game for me to be making any major architectural changes and Tomcat has worked well for us in all other respects.
Thanks again,
Darryl
----- Original Message ----
From: "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>
To: Tomcat Users List <us...@tomcat.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:52:29 PM
Subject: RE: Tracking down OOM - PermGen using jmap and jhat
> From: Darryl Pentz [mailto:djpentz@yahoo.com]
> Subject: Re: Tracking down OOM - PermGen using jmap and jhat
>
> I tried using JConsole's GC button, but
> clearly this didn't do the trick.
Did clicking the button run a major GC (aka PS MarkSweep)?
Are any classes at all being unloaded? (Look at the Classes tab in JConsole.)
> -XX:MaxPermSize=128m
That's actually not very big.
> So the issue right now is a plan of attack to properly unload
> classes in order to expose the likely culprit.
The culprit is what's keeping the classes from being unloaded.
Here's a short tutorial you might want to look at:
http://java.sun.com/javase/6/webnotes/trouble/TSG-VM/html/memleaks.html
- Chuck
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RE: Tracking down OOM - PermGen using jmap and jhat
Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: Darryl Pentz [mailto:djpentz@yahoo.com]
> Subject: Re: Tracking down OOM - PermGen using jmap and jhat
>
> I tried using JConsole's GC button, but
> clearly this didn't do the trick.
Did clicking the button run a major GC (aka PS MarkSweep)?
Are any classes at all being unloaded? (Look at the Classes tab in JConsole.)
> -XX:MaxPermSize=128m
That's actually not very big.
> So the issue right now is a plan of attack to properly unload
> classes in order to expose the likely culprit.
The culprit is what's keeping the classes from being unloaded.
Here's a short tutorial you might want to look at:
http://java.sun.com/javase/6/webnotes/trouble/TSG-VM/html/memleaks.html
- Chuck
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Re: Tracking down OOM - PermGen using jmap and jhat
Posted by Darryl Pentz <dj...@yahoo.com>.
Hi Charles,
Thanks for the info. I recall a post of yours I read on the Nabble list related to this stuff so I appreciate and value your feedback.
I think I misspoke earlier. When I said the memory is still littered with the application classes, I mean virtually everything, thousands of dynamic Proxy classes that seemed to be generated by Hibernate, all the Hibernate classes, the Spring classes, it was virtually the entire application. What I suspect I saw was the memory prior to GC. I had used the TC manager app to both stop the app and to undeploy. How do I force a GC though? I tried using JConsole's GC button, but clearly this didn't do the trick. Do I just leave Tomcat running for some period of time?
As to the other info:
Other information you need to supply on your next posting:
1) Tomcat version
Tomcat 6.0.18
2) JRE/JDK version (including 32- or 64-bit)
JRE 1.6.0 Update 12 32 bit
3) platform you're running on
Windows 2003 R2
4) JVM command-line options used when starting Tomcat
-Xms512
-Xmx1024
-XX:MaxPermSize=128m
The permsize was bumped up a long time ago because Tomcat runs both a pure Java app and a Grails application which generates a lot of dynamic classes, and Hibernate and Spring are used in both. Some other info on the application itself is that the customer instances where we're experiencing problems also have a high client load (we have client apps that connect to our pure Java server app) and they maintain long-lived socket connections to the server that ping every 30s on the socket as a heartbeat. I don't think the Grails application is causing a problem as the issue occurs even when the Grails app is not (or is hardly) used. So the main activity would be the N clients pinging away with each ping causing a DB roundtrip. At the moment the problem instances have 1800 and 2700 concurrent client connections to the server. So the leak is a LOT more noticeable than some of our customer instances where the client count is much lower.
So the issue right now is a plan of attack to properly unload classes in order to expose the likely culprit.
Many thanks,
Darryl Pentz
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RE: Tracking down OOM - PermGen using jmap and jhat
Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: Darryl Po force a entz [mailto:djpentz@yahoo.com]
> Subject: Tracking down OOM - PermGen using jmap and jhat
>
> in both cases when I run jmap/jhat the resulting output shows
> the memory to still be littered with the application classes.
Which is likely the exact memory leak you're looking for. However, you do need to force two full GCs to insure that unreferenced Class objects are scavenged. If you've done the GCs, then look for where the references to the classes are coming from; that's the cause of the leak.
> Is there another way to 'unload' an app such that it will
> force TC to also unload all of its associated classes?
TC does not unload classes, a full GC by the JVM does - but only when all references to the Class objects have been cleared.
Other information you need to supply on your next posting:
1) Tomcat version
2) JRE/JDK version (including 32- or 64-bit)
3) platform you're running on
4) JVM command-line options used when starting Tomcat
- Chuck
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Tracking down OOM - PermGen using jmap and jhat
Posted by Darryl Pentz <dj...@yahoo.com>.
I'm using this article: http://blogs.sun.com/fkieviet/entry/how_to_fix_the_dreaded to try and isolate an apparent memory leak in our web application. It has been functioning fine until a new release which we deployed over this last weekend. Now suddenly we're hitting PermGen OOM's within the first day.
According to the article above, I should be able to deploy my application, then undeploy it, and be able to then use the combination of jmap and jhat to identify classes that are hanging around in the VM when they should have been unloaded. I'm not having much success with this.
My first question is, how do I 'unload' a web application from a running Tomcat instance. I have used the manager app to stop and undeploy the app, but in both cases when I run jmap/jhat the resulting output shows the memory to still be littered with the application classes. Is there another way to 'unload' an app such that it will force TC to also unload all of its associated classes?
So that's possibly the second question, assuming I use the correct manager option, how will I know when it's classes have been unloaded as well?
Thanks,
Darryl
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Rainer Jung <ra...@kippdata.de>.
On 10.03.2009 00:05, Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
>> From: Gregor Schneider [mailto:rc46fi@googlemail.com] Subject: Re:
>> [OT] RE: Max Number of users
>>
>> I'll provide my business-card in Amsterdam so that you believe me
>> that it's *not* Jeppesen
>
> Kölnische Rückversicherungs-Gesellschaft AG, part of Gen Re, part of
> one of Jimmy Buffett's relative's companies.
>
> Your motorcycle gave you away.
Uh-oh, if things haven't changed, it seems you won the prize - and
Gregor lost his privacy ;)
Rainer
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Ken Bowen <kb...@als.com>.
BigBrother will be calling at: +49-221-9738-982
On Mar 9, 2009, at 7:05 PM, Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
> Kölnische Rückversicherungs-Gesellschaft
Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Chuck,
On 3/9/2009 7:05 PM, Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
>> From: Gregor Schneider [mailto:rc46fi@googlemail.com]
>> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
>>
>> I'll provide my business-card in Amsterdam so that you believe me that
>> it's *not* Jeppesen
>
> Kölnische Rückversicherungs-Gesellschaft AG, part of Gen Re, part of one of Jimmy Buffett's relative's companies.
...and they're running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on their web server ;)
- -chris
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RE: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: Gregor Schneider [mailto:rc46fi@googlemail.com]
> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
>
> I'll provide my business-card in Amsterdam so that you believe me that
> it's *not* Jeppesen
Kölnische Rückversicherungs-Gesellschaft AG, part of Gen Re, part of one of Jimmy Buffett's relative's companies.
Your motorcycle gave you away.
- Chuck
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Gregor Schneider <rc...@googlemail.com>.
To be fair:
I'll provide my business-card in Amsterdam so that you believe me that
it's *not* Jeppesen
Biiiiig grin
Gregor
--
just because your paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you...
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com>.
Gregor Schneider wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:09 PM, André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com> wrote:
>> Jeppesen GmbH ?
>
> Nope :)
>
Nokia ?
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Gregor Schneider <rc...@googlemail.com>.
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 9:09 PM, André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com> wrote:
> Jeppesen GmbH ?
Nope :)
--
just because your paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you...
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RE: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: Gregor Schneider [mailto:rc46fi@googlemail.com]
> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
>
> Are you able to name the company I'm working for?
Jeppesen?
(I have used Jepp Charts when flying IFR, but not lately.)
- Chuck
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com>.
Jeppesen GmbH ?
Gregor Schneider wrote:
> Chuck,
>
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Caldarale, Charles R
> <Ch...@unisys.com> wrote:
>> Nah, you just think you do... we know where you are. BBIWY.
>>
> No way - let's do a little bet:
>
> Are you able to name the company I'm working for?
>
> I've just checked it:
>
> I've you google my name combined with the city I'm living, chances are
> you find my profile and within that profile you find the company.
>
> First one naming the company gets a free beer on the ApacheCon Europe.
>
> Dislaimer:
>
> That does not go for Rainer since I've visited one of his trainings -
> so he might remember me ;)
>
> First one means the first one who's entry shows up in this list
>
> Have fun :)
>
> Gregor
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Gregor Schneider <rc...@googlemail.com>.
Chuck,
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Caldarale, Charles R
<Ch...@unisys.com> wrote:
>
> Nah, you just think you do... we know where you are. BBIWY.
>
No way - let's do a little bet:
Are you able to name the company I'm working for?
I've just checked it:
I've you google my name combined with the city I'm living, chances are
you find my profile and within that profile you find the company.
First one naming the company gets a free beer on the ApacheCon Europe.
Dislaimer:
That does not go for Rainer since I've visited one of his trainings -
so he might remember me ;)
First one means the first one who's entry shows up in this list
Have fun :)
Gregor
--
just because your paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you...
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RE: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: Gregor Schneider [mailto:rc46fi@googlemail.com]
> Subject: Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
>
> That means even in times of Web 2.0
> I've got my sweet own privacy ;)
Nah, you just think you do... we know where you are. BBIWY.
> just because your paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you...
Heed your own sig line :-)
Also watch "The President's Analyst", if you can find a copy of the movie.
- Chuck
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Gregor Schneider <rc...@googlemail.com>.
Ken,
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Ken Bowen <kb...@als.com> wrote:
> Ah, too bad...here I thought were going to get a really artistic visual
> presentation of the data (http://www.gregorschneider.de/ :-)
Unfortunately, this guy is quite a famous artist, however, he has
occupied all domains I might think of containg my name - that's the
bad side.
The good side is: If you're googeling my name, you'll hardly find
useful information about me - except if you know what to look for
(i.e. combination with tomcat etc.). That means even in times of Web
2.0 I've got my sweet own privacy ;)
Cheers
Gregor
--
just because your paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you...
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Ken Bowen <kb...@als.com>.
Ah, too bad...here I thought were going to get a really artistic
visual presentation of the data (http://www.gregorschneider.de/ :-)
Cheers...Ken
On Mar 9, 2009, at 12:45 PM, Gregor Schneider wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 4:55 PM, André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com> wrote:
>
> [ tons of statistic analysis]
>
> whew, a lot of stuff to read - any management-summary available?
>
> TIA
>
> Gregor ;)
> --
> just because your paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you...
> gpgp-fp: 79A84FA526807026795E4209D3B3FE028B3170B2
> gpgp-key available @ http://pgpkeys.pca.dfn.de:11371
>
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Gregor Schneider <rc...@googlemail.com>.
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 4:55 PM, André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com> wrote:
[ tons of statistic analysis]
whew, a lot of stuff to read - any management-summary available?
TIA
Gregor ;)
--
just because your paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you...
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com>.
Ken Bowen wrote:
>>
> All,
>
> Being bored and trying to avoid starting any real work on a slushy snowy
> morning, I organized the discussion for inclusion on Andre's list
> (below). BTW, GIF/WIF:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics ::
> "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is part of a phrase attributed to
> Benjamin Disraeli and popularised in the United States by Mark Twain
>
> Cheers...Ken
>
> From: rbs100@gmx.com
> Subject: Max Number of users
> Date: March 9, 2009 2:53:26 AM EDT
> To: users@tomcat.apache.org
> Reply-To: users@tomcat.apache.org
>
> Hi,
> Can any tell the maximum number of users can login into tomcat at the same
> time?
> Can I use tomcat to run in an online internet application used by n number
> of users and the application runs for 24*7?
> Is it reliable?
> Thanks
> RBS
> --------------
> From: rc46fi@googlemail.com
> Subject: Re: Max Number of users
> Date: March 9, 2009 5:24:08 AM EDT
>
> All depends on your configuration, directly porpotional to "n".
>
> And no, Tomcat is not reliable at all, it's more kinda toy for bored
> developers such as me.
>
> That's why we are using Tomcat in a 24/7-environment with a couple of
> 1000 users, never had any unscheduled dropouts.
>
> Rgds
>
> Gregor
>
> PS.:http://wiki.apache.org/tomcat/FAQ/Performance_and_Monitoring
> --------------
> From: rainer.jung@kippdata.de
> Subject: Re: Max Number of users
> Date: March 9, 2009 6:37:57 AM EDT
>
> On 09.03.2009 10:24, Gregor Schneider wrote:
> And no, Tomcat is not reliable at all, it's more kinda toy for bored
> developers such as me.
>
> :)
> --------------
> From: aw@ice-sa.com
> Subject: Re: Max Number of users
> Date: March 9, 2009 8:40:23 AM EDT
>
> Rainer Jung wrote:
> On 09.03.2009 10:24, Gregor Schneider wrote:
> And no, Tomcat is not reliable at all, it's more kinda toy for bored
> developers such as me.
> :)
> A statistical answer :
> - searching Google for "tomcat problems" gives approximately 2,730,000
> links.
> - searching Google for "Tomcat works" gives 5,070,000 links.
> - 2,730,000 + 5,070,000 = 7,800,000 links
> - 5,070,000 / 7,800,000 = 0.65
> 65% reliability is not bad for a free product.
> --------------
> From: rosenberg.leon@googlemail.com
> Subject: Re: Max Number of users
> Date: March 9, 2009 8:52:54 AM EDT
>
> what a glorious example of self cozenage.
> Why do you assume that "tomcat works" is not included in the "tomcat
> problems" result?
> +tomcat +problems -works -> 1,830,000 results.
> +tomcat -problems +works -> 227,000
>
> 227/(227+1830) -> 11% Reliability ... :-)
>
> of course this statement is as un-serious as yours :-)
> --------------
> From: aw@ice-sa.com
> Subject: Re: Max Number of users
> Date: March 9, 2009 9:20:39 AM EDT
>
> I must admit that my first statistical analysis was flawed, and
> furthermore lacked an element of comparison.
> So I refined it and created this table, applying the same objective
> meta-analysis criteria to a range of products :
>
> Product problems works total reliability %
>
> Apache (httpd) 647,000 857,000 1,504,000 81
> IIS 6,530,000 5,900,000 12,430,000 47
> Tomcat 2,730,000 5,070,000 7,800,000 65
> Jboss 967,000 1,050,000 2,017,000 52
> Glassfish 125,000 155,000 280,000 55
> Windows 37,500,000 44,300,000 81,800,000 54
>
> From this, we can draw a number of conclusions :
> a) there are a lot more Windows users than anything else
> b) there are about 5 times more Tomcat users than Apache httpd users
> c) Apache httpd is at least 15% more reliable than any servlet server
> d) Tomcat is the most reliable servlet server
> e) Most IIS users have problems
> f) on a price/reliability ratio, Apache httpd and Tomcat win hands down
> --------------
> From: rc46fi@googlemail.com
> Subject: Re: Max Number of users
> Date: March 9, 2009 9:36:00 AM EDT
>
> Well, maybe this list helps to answer the question about Tomcat's
> reliablity:
> http://wiki.apache.org/tomcat/PoweredBy
>
> Besides, I guess a lot of companies (like us) don't advertise using
> Tomcat due to security-concerns.
>
> I'm just wondering if the OP could digest any information from those
> answers now ;)
>
> Rgds
>
> Gregor
> --------------
> From: Chuck.Caldarale@unisys.com
> Subject: RE: Max Number of users
> Date: March 9, 2009 9:40:33 AM EDT
>
> From: André Warnier [mailto:aw@ice-sa.com]
> Subject: Re: Max Number of users
>
> From this, we can draw a number of conclusions :
>
> "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -
> Benjamin Disraeli (maybe)
>
> - Chuck
> --------------
> From: aw@ice-sa.com
> Subject: Re: Max Number of users
> Date: March 9, 2009 9:50:14 AM EDT
>
> Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
> From: André Warnier [mailto:aw@ice-sa.com] Subject: Re: Max Number of
> users
>
> From this, we can draw a number of conclusions :
> "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -
> Benjamin Disraeli (maybe)
> A statistician is a person who can affirm that another person having one
> foot caught in ice and the other foot in a bucket of boiling water, is
> on average in a comfortable position.
> --------------
> From: Peter.Crowther@melandra.com
> Subject: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
> Date: March 9, 2009 10:02:56 AM EDT
> From: André Warnier [mailto:aw@ice-sa.com]
> A statistician is a person who can affirm that another person
> having one
> foot caught in ice and the other foot in a bucket of boiling water, is
> on average in a comfortable position.
>
> ... but only if they're feeling mean.
>
> - Peter
> --------------
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics ::
> "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is part of a phrase attributed to
> Benjamin Disraeli and popularised in the United States by Mark Twain
>
Thanks to Ken for bringing a bit of order into this statistical chaos.
With the idea of refining the very rough analysis and table above, I
tried to check if there would be any cultural bias in the results as
provided by www.google.com, by crosschecking them by language.
I thus called up www.google.es (spanish), and searched for respectively
"Tomcat problemas" (2,850,000 hits) and "Tomcat funciona" (only 88,000
hits), for a total thus of 2,938,000 hits, which by the same calculation
would give us a Spanish reliability ratio for Tomcat of only a dismal
2.9 %. The reality is in fact even worse, because the search on "Tomcat
funciona" generates a substantial number of hits on "Tomcat no
funciona", so the 88,000 hits do not even represent the real total of
satisfied users.
We would thus have to assume either that Spanish-speaking users,
culturally, are less grateful and much more likely to post messages when
things do not work than when they do work, or else have to admit that
Tomcat is somehow incompatible with the Spanish language.
Would any of the committers know if there is substance to either one of
the previous suspicions, or dispose of a statistical technique allowing
to overcome this possibly cultural bias ?
As a control, I performed the same analysis on IIS, with the following
results :
IIS problemas : 6,730,000
IIS funciona : 165,000
total : 6,895,000
reliability ratio : 2.3 %
which would tend to indicate that the bias, if any, also applies to
other software products, even non-free.
To remove any high-technology related effect, I also tried to apply the
same analysis to themes unrelated to Tomcat, such as "coche" (car)
(4,850,000/2,200,000), "mujer" (woman) (15,900,000/10,200,000), and
"hombre" (man) (17,200,000/11,300,000) and so far it seems to lead to
the conclusion that Spanish-speaking people, independently of sex, are
rather grouchy, although less so on these other kinds of products than
on web software.
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Re: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Ken Bowen <kb...@als.com>.
>
All,
Being bored and trying to avoid starting any real work on a slushy
snowy morning, I organized the discussion for inclusion on Andre's
list (below). BTW, GIF/WIF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics
::
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is part of a phrase attributed to
Benjamin Disraeli and popularised in the United States by Mark Twain
Cheers...Ken
From: rbs100@gmx.com
Subject: Max Number of users
Date: March 9, 2009 2:53:26 AM EDT
To: users@tomcat.apache.org
Reply-To: users@tomcat.apache.org
Hi,
Can any tell the maximum number of users can login into tomcat at the
same
time?
Can I use tomcat to run in an online internet application used by n
number
of users and the application runs for 24*7?
Is it reliable?
Thanks
RBS
--------------
From: rc46fi@googlemail.com
Subject: Re: Max Number of users
Date: March 9, 2009 5:24:08 AM EDT
All depends on your configuration, directly porpotional to "n".
And no, Tomcat is not reliable at all, it's more kinda toy for bored
developers such as me.
That's why we are using Tomcat in a 24/7-environment with a couple of
1000 users, never had any unscheduled dropouts.
Rgds
Gregor
PS.:http://wiki.apache.org/tomcat/FAQ/Performance_and_Monitoring
--------------
From: rainer.jung@kippdata.de
Subject: Re: Max Number of users
Date: March 9, 2009 6:37:57 AM EDT
On 09.03.2009 10:24, Gregor Schneider wrote:
And no, Tomcat is not reliable at all, it's more kinda toy for bored
developers such as me.
:)
--------------
From: aw@ice-sa.com
Subject: Re: Max Number of users
Date: March 9, 2009 8:40:23 AM EDT
Rainer Jung wrote:
On 09.03.2009 10:24, Gregor Schneider wrote:
And no, Tomcat is not reliable at all, it's more kinda toy for bored
developers such as me.
:)
A statistical answer :
- searching Google for "tomcat problems" gives approximately
2,730,000 links.
- searching Google for "Tomcat works" gives 5,070,000 links.
- 2,730,000 + 5,070,000 = 7,800,000 links
- 5,070,000 / 7,800,000 = 0.65
65% reliability is not bad for a free product.
--------------
From: rosenberg.leon@googlemail.com
Subject: Re: Max Number of users
Date: March 9, 2009 8:52:54 AM EDT
what a glorious example of self cozenage.
Why do you assume that "tomcat works" is not included in the "tomcat
problems" result?
+tomcat +problems -works -> 1,830,000 results.
+tomcat -problems +works -> 227,000
227/(227+1830) -> 11% Reliability ... :-)
of course this statement is as un-serious as yours :-)
--------------
From: aw@ice-sa.com
Subject: Re: Max Number of users
Date: March 9, 2009 9:20:39 AM EDT
I must admit that my first statistical analysis was flawed, and
furthermore lacked an element of comparison.
So I refined it and created this table, applying the same objective
meta-analysis criteria to a range of products :
Product problems works total reliability %
Apache (httpd) 647,000 857,000 1,504,000 81
IIS 6,530,000 5,900,000 12,430,000 47
Tomcat 2,730,000 5,070,000 7,800,000 65
Jboss 967,000 1,050,000 2,017,000 52
Glassfish 125,000 155,000 280,000 55
Windows 37,500,000 44,300,000 81,800,000 54
From this, we can draw a number of conclusions :
a) there are a lot more Windows users than anything else
b) there are about 5 times more Tomcat users than Apache httpd users
c) Apache httpd is at least 15% more reliable than any servlet server
d) Tomcat is the most reliable servlet server
e) Most IIS users have problems
f) on a price/reliability ratio, Apache httpd and Tomcat win hands down
--------------
From: rc46fi@googlemail.com
Subject: Re: Max Number of users
Date: March 9, 2009 9:36:00 AM EDT
Well, maybe this list helps to answer the question about Tomcat's
reliablity:
http://wiki.apache.org/tomcat/PoweredBy
Besides, I guess a lot of companies (like us) don't advertise using
Tomcat due to security-concerns.
I'm just wondering if the OP could digest any information from those
answers now ;)
Rgds
Gregor
--------------
From: Chuck.Caldarale@unisys.com
Subject: RE: Max Number of users
Date: March 9, 2009 9:40:33 AM EDT
From: André Warnier [mailto:aw@ice-sa.com]
Subject: Re: Max Number of users
From this, we can draw a number of conclusions :
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -
Benjamin Disraeli (maybe)
- Chuck
--------------
From: aw@ice-sa.com
Subject: Re: Max Number of users
Date: March 9, 2009 9:50:14 AM EDT
Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
From: André Warnier [mailto:aw@ice-sa.com] Subject: Re: Max Number
of users
From this, we can draw a number of conclusions :
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -
Benjamin Disraeli (maybe)
A statistician is a person who can affirm that another person having
one foot caught in ice and the other foot in a bucket of boiling
water, is on average in a comfortable position.
--------------
From: Peter.Crowther@melandra.com
Subject: [OT] RE: Max Number of users
Date: March 9, 2009 10:02:56 AM EDT
From: André Warnier [mailto:aw@ice-sa.com]
A statistician is a person who can affirm that another person
having one
foot caught in ice and the other foot in a bucket of boiling water, is
on average in a comfortable position.
... but only if they're feeling mean.
- Peter
--------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics ::
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is part of a phrase attributed to
Benjamin Disraeli and popularised in the United States by Mark Twain
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[OT] RE: Max Number of users
Posted by Peter Crowther <Pe...@melandra.com>.
> From: André Warnier [mailto:aw@ice-sa.com]
> A statistician is a person who can affirm that another person
> having one
> foot caught in ice and the other foot in a bucket of boiling water, is
> on average in a comfortable position.
... but only if they're feeling mean.
- Peter
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Re: Max Number of users
Posted by André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com>.
Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
>> From: André Warnier [mailto:aw@ice-sa.com]
>> Subject: Re: Max Number of users
>>
>> From this, we can draw a number of conclusions :
>
> "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli (maybe)
>
A statistician is a person who can affirm that another person having one
foot caught in ice and the other foot in a bucket of boiling water, is
on average in a comfortable position.
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RE: Max Number of users
Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: André Warnier [mailto:aw@ice-sa.com]
> Subject: Re: Max Number of users
>
> From this, we can draw a number of conclusions :
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli (maybe)
- Chuck
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Re: Max Number of users
Posted by André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com>.
I must admit that my first statistical analysis was flawed, and
furthermore lacked an element of comparison.
So I refined it and created this table, applying the same objective
meta-analysis criteria to a range of products :
Product problems works total reliability %
Apache (httpd) 647,000 857,000 1,504,000 81
IIS 6,530,000 5,900,000 12,430,000 47
Tomcat 2,730,000 5,070,000 7,800,000 65
Jboss 967,000 1,050,000 2,017,000 52
Glassfish 125,000 155,000 280,000 55
Windows 37,500,000 44,300,000 81,800,000 54
From this, we can draw a number of conclusions :
a) there are a lot more Windows users than anything else
b) there are about 5 times more Tomcat users than Apache httpd users
c) Apache httpd is at least 15% more reliable than any servlet server
d) Tomcat is the most reliable servlet server
e) Most IIS users have problems
f) on a price/reliability ratio, Apache httpd and Tomcat win hands down
Leon Rosenberg wrote:
> what a glorious example of self cozenage.
> Why do you assume that "tomcat works" is not included in the "tomcat
> problems" result?
> +tomcat +problems -works -> 1,830,000 results.
> +tomcat -problems +works -> 227,000
>
> 227/(227+1830) -> 11% Reliability ... :-)
>
> of course this statement is as un-serious as yours :-)
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 1:40 PM, André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com> wrote:
>> Rainer Jung wrote:
>>> On 09.03.2009 10:24, Gregor Schneider wrote:
>>>> And no, Tomcat is not reliable at all, it's more kinda toy for bored
>>>> developers such as me.
>>> :)
>>>
>> A statistical answer :
>> - searching Google for "tomcat problems" gives approximately 2,730,000
>> links.
>> - searching Google for "Tomcat works" gives 5,070,000 links.
>> - 2,730,000 + 5,070,000 = 7,800,000 links
>> - 5,070,000 / 7,800,000 = 0.65
>> 65% reliability is not bad for a free product.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: Max Number of users
Posted by Leon Rosenberg <ro...@googlemail.com>.
what a glorious example of self cozenage.
Why do you assume that "tomcat works" is not included in the "tomcat
problems" result?
+tomcat +problems -works -> 1,830,000 results.
+tomcat -problems +works -> 227,000
227/(227+1830) -> 11% Reliability ... :-)
of course this statement is as un-serious as yours :-)
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 1:40 PM, André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com> wrote:
> Rainer Jung wrote:
>>
>> On 09.03.2009 10:24, Gregor Schneider wrote:
>>>
>>> And no, Tomcat is not reliable at all, it's more kinda toy for bored
>>> developers such as me.
>>
>> :)
>>
> A statistical answer :
> - searching Google for "tomcat problems" gives approximately 2,730,000
> links.
> - searching Google for "Tomcat works" gives 5,070,000 links.
> - 2,730,000 + 5,070,000 = 7,800,000 links
> - 5,070,000 / 7,800,000 = 0.65
> 65% reliability is not bad for a free product.
>
>
>
>
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Re: Max Number of users
Posted by André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com>.
Rainer Jung wrote:
> On 09.03.2009 10:24, Gregor Schneider wrote:
>> And no, Tomcat is not reliable at all, it's more kinda toy for bored
>> developers such as me.
>
> :)
>
A statistical answer :
- searching Google for "tomcat problems" gives approximately
2,730,000 links.
- searching Google for "Tomcat works" gives 5,070,000 links.
- 2,730,000 + 5,070,000 = 7,800,000 links
- 5,070,000 / 7,800,000 = 0.65
65% reliability is not bad for a free product.
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Re: Max Number of users
Posted by Rainer Jung <ra...@kippdata.de>.
On 09.03.2009 10:24, Gregor Schneider wrote:
> And no, Tomcat is not reliable at all, it's more kinda toy for bored
> developers such as me.
:)
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Re: Max Number of users
Posted by Gregor Schneider <rc...@googlemail.com>.
All depends on your configuration, directly porpotional to "n".
And no, Tomcat is not reliable at all, it's more kinda toy for bored
developers such as me.
That's why we are using Tomcat in a 24/7-environment with a couple of
1000 users, never had any unscheduled dropouts.
Rgds
Gregor
PS.:http://wiki.apache.org/tomcat/FAQ/Performance_and_Monitoring
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