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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org> on 2003/07/20 12:19:47 UTC
mail2.html -> mail.html
Hi all,
I am wondering how it might be if deleting
jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html and putting all
the contents to jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html
All the Apache TLPs (Top Level Projects) do not separate
the mail list explanation pages like jakarta, AFAICS.
cf. http://ant.apache.org/mail.html
http://httpd.apache.org/lists.html
I think that each subprojects can indicate the direct/appropriate
subscribe/unscribe section from each subprojects' pages.
(Now: e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html#tomcat
future: e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html#tomcat)
Any thoughts?
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
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Re: mail2.html -> mail.html
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 06:21:13 -0400
"Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net> wrote:
> > I think that each subprojects can indicate the direct/appropriate
> > subscribe/unscribe section from each subprojects' pages.
> > (Now: e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html#tomcat
> > future: e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html#tomcat)
> >
> > Any thoughts?
>
> I think the motivation is to force people to read the first page before
> they get to the second.
Yes, I think so. However, there are many many mailing list in
mail2.html and we did not point out the *appropriate* mail
list in the past, it seems.
(We often use this phrase, "subscribe to the *appropriate* lists"
... not user-friendly phrase...)
Promoting to point out directly the *appropriate* mail lists
(e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html#tomcat
or http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html#tomcat) might
be better than now, I think.
If httpd, ant or whatever in apache.org had failed to let people read
the MailList *guideline*, I am willing to withdraw my proposal.
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
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Re: mail2.html -> mail.html
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 18:48:16 +0100
(Subject: Re: mail2.html -> mail.html)
Michael Davey <Mi...@coderage.org> wrote:
> Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>
> >No, my original intention was derived from just this simple question:
> >"Why doesn't each subprojects' left-side navi point to the *appropriate*
> >section in mail2.html?"
> I was dead against this when Tetsuya first raised the issue, but I think
> I am coming round to Tetsuya's way of thinking. Perhaps ezmlm could be
> changed so that the confirm subscription and welcome email messages
> start with some text similar to that used on the mail.html page.
> Additionally, the -dev lists could warn that -user should be used for
> questions including developer questions, where appropriate. Some Apache
> lists already do one or both of these, but many don't do either.
Thank you. I think so. If possible, additional mail trailer (footer)
might be preferable.
These below are *sample* of the mail (message) trailers.
Any comments, improvements are welcomed :D
e.g. Jakarta-General
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The Apache Jakarta Website http://jakarta.apache.org/
e.g. Jakarta-Tomcat-Dev
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Mailing List Guidelines :http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html
e.g. Jakarta-Tomcat-User
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Jakarta Tomcat Website http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/
> In any case, I don't think we can protect ourselves completely from
> fools ;)
Ditto :D
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
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Re: move user lists to mail.html from mail2.html?
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:49:37 +0100
robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> i've been thinking about this and i think that maybe there's a way to
> change the pages that will improving things for users whilst still
> preventing problems with people not reading the rules. this is really only
> a major problem for developer lists.
> maybe we could try moving the user lists to the bottom of the first page
> and then leave the link to the developer lists on the second page. maybe
> the extra space could be used to add some links that of interest for
> potential contributors.
I made many changes to mail.html and mail2.html the other day.
Now, each subprojects can point out
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html#(projectname/acronym)
directly.
I do not think separating the intro page of userlist from
that of devlist is a good idea (sorry). I am afraid it might cause
confusions to the users/developers.
Rather, I would like to prompt each projects to
1. change left-side navi of each projects
2. change message trailer (footer of each mails)
#1:
please see the sample of this: http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/
#2:
The Apache Jakarta POI Project will use these message trailers below,
((Jakarta POI-dev list))
=====================(CUT HERE)======================================
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Mailing List: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html#poi
The Apache Jakarta POI Project: http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/
=====================(E N D)=======================================
((Jakarta Poi-user list))
=====================(CUT HERE)======================================
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Mailing List: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html#poi
The Apache Jakarta Poi Project: http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/
=====================(E N D)=======================================
--
I think these above are enough.
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
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move user lists to mail.html from mail2.html? [WAS Re: mail2.html -> mail.html]
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 02:15 AM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
> Thank you for the comment, Robert.
>
>
> TO tell the truth, my original motivation to arise this
> issue was concering to the upcoming newsletter.
>
> I published the final "Jakarta Newsletter" in early
> this month and I found I made some mistakes. Also,
> there was something which I got aware:
>
> <<1>>
>
> I've forgot to append the URL of Apache Ant. There might
> be someone who came to jakarta-general, not knowing
> that Ant had been separated and have own mailng lists.
>
> <<2>>
>
> I wrote:
> 'If you would like to comment further on any of the highlighted
> discussions then please do so on the appropriate list [4],
> ................................................
> [4] - http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html'
>
> However, at the same time I felt guilty about this .. thinking
> "Oh, how user unfriendly I am!"
i've been thinking about this and i think that maybe there's a way to
change the pages that will improving things for users whilst still
preventing problems with people not reading the rules. this is really only
a major problem for developer lists.
maybe we could try moving the user lists to the bottom of the first page
and then leave the link to the developer lists on the second page. maybe
the extra space could be used to add some links that of interest for
potential contributors.
- robert
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Re: mail2.html -> mail.html
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
Thank you for the comment, Robert.
TO tell the truth, my original motivation to arise this
issue was concering to the upcoming newsletter.
I published the final "Jakarta Newsletter" in early
this month and I found I made some mistakes. Also,
there was something which I got aware:
<<1>>
I've forgot to append the URL of Apache Ant. There might
be someone who came to jakarta-general, not knowing
that Ant had been separated and have own mailng lists.
<<2>>
I wrote:
'If you would like to comment further on any of the highlighted
discussions then please do so on the appropriate list [4],
................................................
[4] - http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html'
However, at the same time I felt guilty about this .. thinking
"Oh, how user unfriendly I am!"
<<3>>
I have felt the mail trailer (can be seen at the bottom of each mails)
can be improved in the future. I was getting too nervous on the
next Newsletter (ASF-wide) and thought "before it is too late"...
--
Anyway, I will perform the improvements gradually... There
seem many rooms for improvements even in the current site/mail2.html.
Thank you all who participated in this issue for the comments!
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:17:40 +0100
(Subject: Re: mail2.html -> mail.html)
robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> jakarta came round to having two pages for mail subscriptions after
> having years of regular problems with people joining the lists who
> had no idea about how to behave. the pages are user unfriendly but
> the old solution (ie publically and vocally humiliating posters on
> list) was worse (since it discouraged many lurkers with valuable
> opinions from speaking out for fear of being shot down in flames).
>
> i don't think that reading through a page of instructions is too much
> to ask for the benefit of the community not having to waste time and
> energy shooting down ignorant and disruptive posters. one proof that
> this policy works is that the last occasion that i can remember this
> being necessary was with somebody who'd subscribed via news.
>
> i would support a move of the other information on the deeper page
> (about the archives, for example) to a better location. i'd also be
> happy to support some alternative system (maybe using ezmlm) which
> was equally effective. i'd also support any sub-project who was happy
> about being listed on the front page being moved there.
>
> - robert
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Re: mail2.html -> mail.html
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
jakarta came round to having two pages for mail subscriptions after having
years of regular problems with people joining the lists who had no idea
about how to behave. the pages are user unfriendly but the old solution
(ie publically and vocally humiliating posters on list) was worse (since
it discouraged many lurkers with valuable opinions from speaking out for
fear of being shot down in flames).
i don't think that reading through a page of instructions is too much to
ask for the benefit of the community not having to waste time and energy
shooting down ignorant and disruptive posters. one proof that this policy
works is that the last occasion that i can remember this being necessary
was with somebody who'd subscribed via news.
i would support a move of the other information on the deeper page (about
the archives, for example) to a better location. i'd also be happy to
support some alternative system (maybe using ezmlm) which was equally
effective. i'd also support any sub-project who was happy about being
listed on the front page being moved there.
- robert
On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 10:50 AM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:02:57 +0100
> "Danny Angus" <da...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>>> I was dead against this when Tetsuya first raised the issue,
>> I'm still dead against this, and likely to remain so until someone
>> can explain to me why it would be better than what we currently have.
>
> 1.
>
> Current pages are user-*un*friendly:
> My proposal is user-friendly:
>
> *user* means "future developer", who might devote to the
> jakarta activities and the ASF activities in the future.
>
> I can not find any good reasons to keep current pages unchanged,
> in other words.
>
> 2.
>
> Please see Andrew and Henri's comments. These implied the *reason*
> what you wanted, I think.
>
>> What we have is (as far as I'm aware) the result of responding to the
>> actions of people in respect of the mailing lists, and intended to reduce
>> the amount of brain-dead misuse. I'd worrry that changing it would
>> re-introduce problems.
>
> I am not sure whether all the subscribers have read the guideline
> completely and have respect to mailing lists.
>
> If they are wise enough and given that people had read mail.html page,
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/micromail.html
> would not have dead linked pages * at all*, I think.
> (This page is now linked by site/mail.html, as you all can see.
> And .. sorry I do not use any mail clients/ servers created by MS, so
> I won't/can't apply any changes to this page)
>
> Also, I am not sure whether it would re-introduce problems. Aren't
> there any alternative method which fulfill these two? :
> 1. Keep User-Friendli-ness
> 2. Avoid Trouble
> I suggested various approaching methods in the past. Probably,
> there might be much *better* way.
>
>> If there is an issue with lists being hard to find, or instructions
>> unclear lets hear it.
>
> *chicken* and *egg*. Who felt hardness to find *appropriate list*
> won't come to this list and can not comment to your line. You'll
> not be able to hear their voices.
>
> Also,
> it takes at least 10-30 seconds to find the *appropriate*
> lists out even though using *Ctrl+F* at current site/mail2.html.
> What would happen after directly, simply indicating the *appropriate*
> lists??? (again)
> e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html#general
>
> --
>
> I think the policy of Apache (Jakarta) might have had "A Patchy"
> spirits, providing experimental space for all the people.
>
> There are no reason for letting the beginners feel unease, enforce
> them to wander off and get lost in the jakarta desert.
> Why not adopting "Easy to entry: Learn more here" approaching method??
>
>
>
> I am trying to reduce the user-*un*friendli-ness from jakarta gradually..
> .
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> -- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
>
>
>
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Re: mail2.html -> mail.html
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:02:57 +0100
"Danny Angus" <da...@apache.org> wrote:
> > I was dead against this when Tetsuya first raised the issue,
> I'm still dead against this, and likely to remain so until someone
> can explain to me why it would be better than what we currently have.
1.
Current pages are user-*un*friendly:
My proposal is user-friendly:
*user* means "future developer", who might devote to the
jakarta activities and the ASF activities in the future.
I can not find any good reasons to keep current pages unchanged,
in other words.
2.
Please see Andrew and Henri's comments. These implied the *reason*
what you wanted, I think.
> What we have is (as far as I'm aware) the result of responding to the
> actions of people in respect of the mailing lists, and intended to reduce
> the amount of brain-dead misuse. I'd worrry that changing it would
> re-introduce problems.
I am not sure whether all the subscribers have read the guideline
completely and have respect to mailing lists.
If they are wise enough and given that people had read mail.html page,
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/micromail.html
would not have dead linked pages * at all*, I think.
(This page is now linked by site/mail.html, as you all can see.
And .. sorry I do not use any mail clients/ servers created by MS, so
I won't/can't apply any changes to this page)
Also, I am not sure whether it would re-introduce problems. Aren't
there any alternative method which fulfill these two? :
1. Keep User-Friendli-ness
2. Avoid Trouble
I suggested various approaching methods in the past. Probably,
there might be much *better* way.
> If there is an issue with lists being hard to find, or instructions
> unclear lets hear it.
*chicken* and *egg*. Who felt hardness to find *appropriate list*
won't come to this list and can not comment to your line. You'll
not be able to hear their voices.
Also,
it takes at least 10-30 seconds to find the *appropriate*
lists out even though using *Ctrl+F* at current site/mail2.html.
What would happen after directly, simply indicating the *appropriate*
lists??? (again)
e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html#general
--
I think the policy of Apache (Jakarta) might have had "A Patchy"
spirits, providing experimental space for all the people.
There are no reason for letting the beginners feel unease, enforce
them to wander off and get lost in the jakarta desert.
Why not adopting "Easy to entry: Learn more here" approaching method??
I am trying to reduce the user-*un*friendli-ness from jakarta gradually...
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
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Re: mail2.html -> mail.html
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003, Michael Davey wrote:
> Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>
> >No, my original intention was derived from just this simple question:
> >"Why doesn't each subprojects' left-side navi point to the *appropriate*
> >section in mail2.html?"
> >
> >
> I was dead against this when Tetsuya first raised the issue, but I think
Like Danny, I still am.
> I am coming round to Tetsuya's way of thinking. Perhaps ezmlm could be
> changed so that the confirm subscription and welcome email messages
> start with some text similar to that used on the mail.html page.
I'm sure it could. But people would completely ignore that text. That's
exactly the point of having mail and mail2 separated as they are.
> Additionally, the -dev lists could warn that -user should be used for
> questions including developer questions, where appropriate. Some Apache
> lists already do one or both of these, but many don't do either.
You mean the lists themselves, or the people on them? The struts-dev list
gets a fair number of messages that should have been sent to struts-user
instead, and it's really pretty annoying. The more we can do to get people
to use the right list in the first place, the better.
>
> Hopefully few novices will be inclined to post to a list without first
> subscribing
They may subscribe, but they are also likely to ignore any instructions
they are given, even if those instructions are repeated at the end of
every message to the list. How many times have you seen "unsubscribe"
messages on lists whose message footers include the instructions?
> (I know that many here do post to lists to which they aren't
> subscribed, which is fine as they aren't new to the community, so they
> know what to do and what not to do).
> In any case, I don't think we can
> protect ourselves completely from fools ;)
Sad but true. ;-(
--
Martin Cooper
>
> --
> Michael
>
>
>
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>
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RE: mail2.html -> mail.html
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
> I was dead against this when Tetsuya first raised the issue,
I'm still dead against this, and likely to remain so until someone can
explain to me why it would be better than what we currently have.
What we have is (as far as I'm aware) the result of responding to the
actions of people in respect of the mailing lists, and intended to reduce
the amount of brain-dead misuse. I'd worrry that changing it would
re-introduce problems.
If there is an issue with lists being hard to find, or instructions unclear
lets hear it.
d.
but I think
> I am coming round to Tetsuya's way of thinking. Perhaps ezmlm could be
> changed so that the confirm subscription and welcome email messages
> start with some text similar to that used on the mail.html page.
> Additionally, the -dev lists could warn that -user should be used for
> questions including developer questions, where appropriate. Some Apache
> lists already do one or both of these, but many don't do either.
>
> Hopefully few novices will be inclined to post to a list without first
> subscribing (I know that many here do post to lists to which they aren't
> subscribed, which is fine as they aren't new to the community, so they
> know what to do and what not to do). In any case, I don't think we can
> protect ourselves completely from fools ;)
>
> --
> Michael
>
>
>
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Re: mail2.html -> mail.html
Posted by Michael Davey <Mi...@coderage.org>.
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>No, my original intention was derived from just this simple question:
>"Why doesn't each subprojects' left-side navi point to the *appropriate*
>section in mail2.html?"
>
>
I was dead against this when Tetsuya first raised the issue, but I think
I am coming round to Tetsuya's way of thinking. Perhaps ezmlm could be
changed so that the confirm subscription and welcome email messages
start with some text similar to that used on the mail.html page.
Additionally, the -dev lists could warn that -user should be used for
questions including developer questions, where appropriate. Some Apache
lists already do one or both of these, but many don't do either.
Hopefully few novices will be inclined to post to a list without first
subscribing (I know that many here do post to lists to which they aren't
subscribed, which is fine as they aren't new to the community, so they
know what to do and what not to do). In any case, I don't think we can
protect ourselves completely from fools ;)
--
Michael
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Re: mail2.html -> mail.html
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:57:10 -0400
(Subject: Re: mail2.html -> mail.html)
"Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net> wrote:
> The nice thing about the current approach is that you can't get to see
> the links w/o having to have read enough of the first page to
> understand that you have to click through to the next page.
>
> Otherwise, people will just skip down until they find what they want
> and then have missed what is some good prelim info for our community.
> It's not much of a burden on people, as once you've done it, you just
> know to skip to bottom and go to the mail for new lists...
>
> geir
No, my original intention was derived from just this simple question:
"Why doesn't each subprojects' left-side navi point to the *appropriate*
section in mail2.html?"
For example, if Jakarta-Poi's website have the direct link
(http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html#poi) in its' left
side navigator, people will not wander the mail.html/mail2.html
and be satisfied surely.
Next, in this situation, I thought the current mail.html
is meaningless, so why not conjoin mail.html and mail2.html?
(Also, please see the sample below)
For me, subscribe/unsubscribe is very easy, because
I remember *-subscribe*/*-unsubscribe* suffix :D
However,
there are many people who can not find the way to
unsubscribe each mailing lists :D, even though
each mails has *appripriate* mail trailer (signature).
Things might be better to become simpler.
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
> On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 11:48 AM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:33:20 -0400
> > "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >
> >>> I believe the idea is to make people read the rules first, I wouldn't
> >>> advise
> >>> changing it unless you have a good reason to, if it ain't broke don't
> >>> fix
> >>> it.
> >> Yes, that's what i was trying to hint at :)
> >
> > I know this and the purpose.
> >
> > Alternatively,
> >
> > --------------------e.g.---------site/mail.html
> > GUIDELINE(#guideline)
> > ................
> > ................(brief description)
> > .................
> > Tomcat
> > User List
> > Subscribe Unsubscribe Archive Guideline(jump to
> > #guideline)
> > Dev List
> > Subscribe Unsubscribe Archive Guideline
> > ..................
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > This might be enough, I think.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > -- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
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Re: mail2.html -> mail.html
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Presently they give up reading it and email me personally.
-Andy
On 7/20/03 11:57 AM, "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net> wrote:
> The nice thing about the current approach is that you can't get to see
> the links w/o having to have read enough of the first page to
> understand that you have to click through to the next page.
>
> Otherwise, people will just skip down until they find what they want
> and then have missed what is some good prelim info for our community.
> It's not much of a burden on people, as once you've done it, you just
> know to skip to bottom and go to the mail for new lists...
>
> geir
>
> On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 11:48 AM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:33:20 -0400
>> "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> I believe the idea is to make people read the rules first, I wouldn't
>>>> advise
>>>> changing it unless you have a good reason to, if it ain't broke don't
>>>> fix
>>>> it.
>>> Yes, that's what i was trying to hint at :)
>>
>> I know this and the purpose.
>>
>> Alternatively,
>>
>> --------------------e.g.---------site/mail.html
>> GUIDELINE(#guideline)
>> ................
>> ................(brief description)
>> .................
>> Tomcat
>> User List
>> Subscribe Unsubscribe Archive Guideline(jump to
>> #guideline)
>> Dev List
>> Subscribe Unsubscribe Archive Guideline
>> ..................
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> This might be enough, I think.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> -- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>
--
Andrew C. Oliver
http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp
Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI
http://jakarta.apache.org/poi
For Java and Excel, Got POI?
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Re: mail2.html -> mail.html
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
The nice thing about the current approach is that you can't get to see
the links w/o having to have read enough of the first page to
understand that you have to click through to the next page.
Otherwise, people will just skip down until they find what they want
and then have missed what is some good prelim info for our community.
It's not much of a burden on people, as once you've done it, you just
know to skip to bottom and go to the mail for new lists...
geir
On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 11:48 AM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:33:20 -0400
> "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>> I believe the idea is to make people read the rules first, I wouldn't
>>> advise
>>> changing it unless you have a good reason to, if it ain't broke don't
>>> fix
>>> it.
>> Yes, that's what i was trying to hint at :)
>
> I know this and the purpose.
>
> Alternatively,
>
> --------------------e.g.---------site/mail.html
> GUIDELINE(#guideline)
> ................
> ................(brief description)
> .................
> Tomcat
> User List
> Subscribe Unsubscribe Archive Guideline(jump to
> #guideline)
> Dev List
> Subscribe Unsubscribe Archive Guideline
> ..................
> ------------------------------------
>
> This might be enough, I think.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> -- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-956-2604(w)
Adeptra, Inc. 203-434-2093(m)
geirm@adeptra.com 203-247-1713(m)
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Re: mail2.html -> mail.html
Posted by Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:33:20 -0400
"Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net> wrote:
> > I believe the idea is to make people read the rules first, I wouldn't
> > advise
> > changing it unless you have a good reason to, if it ain't broke don't
> > fix
> > it.
> Yes, that's what i was trying to hint at :)
I know this and the purpose.
Alternatively,
--------------------e.g.---------site/mail.html
GUIDELINE(#guideline)
................
................(brief description)
.................
Tomcat
User List
Subscribe Unsubscribe Archive Guideline(jump to #guideline)
Dev List
Subscribe Unsubscribe Archive Guideline
..................
------------------------------------
This might be enough, I think.
Sincerely,
-- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
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Re: mail2.html -> mail.html
Posted by Erik Price <ep...@ptc.com>.
Henri Yandell wrote:
> That's all very well and good. But why do I have to read the rules to go
> look at the archives?
>
> That frustrates me every time I want to search the archives.
Remember two simple hyperlinks:
http://mail-archive.com/
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/
I like the second one better, it goes to a big page listing all mailing
lists, and I just use my browser's search feature to jump to the
appropriate mailing list hyperlink ("search 'log4j', etc").
Erik
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RE: mail2.html -> mail.html
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
That's all very well and good. But why do I have to read the rules to go
look at the archives?
That frustrates me every time I want to search the archives.
Hen
On Sun, 20 Jul 2003, Danny Angus wrote:
> I believe the idea is to make people read the rules first, I wouldn't advise
> changing it unless you have a good reason to, if it ain't broke don't fix
> it.
>
> d.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tetsuya Kitahata [mailto:tetsuya@apache.org]
> > Sent: 20 July 2003 11:20
> > To: general@jakarta.apache.org
> > Subject: mail2.html -> mail.html
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am wondering how it might be if deleting
> > jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html and putting all
> > the contents to jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html
> >
> > All the Apache TLPs (Top Level Projects) do not separate
> > the mail list explanation pages like jakarta, AFAICS.
> > cf. http://ant.apache.org/mail.html
> > http://httpd.apache.org/lists.html
> >
> > I think that each subprojects can indicate the direct/appropriate
> > subscribe/unscribe section from each subprojects' pages.
> > (Now: e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html#tomcat
> > future: e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html#tomcat)
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > -- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: mail2.html -> mail.html
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 11:19 AM, Danny Angus wrote:
> I believe the idea is to make people read the rules first, I wouldn't
> advise
> changing it unless you have a good reason to, if it ain't broke don't
> fix
> it.
Yes, that's what i was trying to hint at :)
+1
>
> d.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tetsuya Kitahata [mailto:tetsuya@apache.org]
>> Sent: 20 July 2003 11:20
>> To: general@jakarta.apache.org
>> Subject: mail2.html -> mail.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am wondering how it might be if deleting
>> jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html and putting all
>> the contents to jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html
>>
>> All the Apache TLPs (Top Level Projects) do not separate
>> the mail list explanation pages like jakarta, AFAICS.
>> cf. http://ant.apache.org/mail.html
>> http://httpd.apache.org/lists.html
>>
>> I think that each subprojects can indicate the direct/appropriate
>> subscribe/unscribe section from each subprojects' pages.
>> (Now: e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html#tomcat
>> future: e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html#tomcat)
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> -- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-956-2604(w)
Adeptra, Inc. 203-434-2093(m)
geirm@adeptra.com 203-247-1713(m)
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RE: mail2.html -> mail.html
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
I believe the idea is to make people read the rules first, I wouldn't advise
changing it unless you have a good reason to, if it ain't broke don't fix
it.
d.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tetsuya Kitahata [mailto:tetsuya@apache.org]
> Sent: 20 July 2003 11:20
> To: general@jakarta.apache.org
> Subject: mail2.html -> mail.html
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am wondering how it might be if deleting
> jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html and putting all
> the contents to jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html
>
> All the Apache TLPs (Top Level Projects) do not separate
> the mail list explanation pages like jakarta, AFAICS.
> cf. http://ant.apache.org/mail.html
> http://httpd.apache.org/lists.html
>
> I think that each subprojects can indicate the direct/appropriate
> subscribe/unscribe section from each subprojects' pages.
> (Now: e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html#tomcat
> future: e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html#tomcat)
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> -- Tetsuya (tetsuya@apache.org)
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
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Re: mail2.html -> mail.html
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 06:19 AM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am wondering how it might be if deleting
> jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html and putting all
> the contents to jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html
>
> All the Apache TLPs (Top Level Projects) do not separate
> the mail list explanation pages like jakarta, AFAICS.
> cf. http://ant.apache.org/mail.html
> http://httpd.apache.org/lists.html
>
> I think that each subprojects can indicate the direct/appropriate
> subscribe/unscribe section from each subprojects' pages.
> (Now: e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html#tomcat
> future: e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail.html#tomcat)
>
> Any thoughts?
I think the motivation is to force people to read the first page before
they get to the second.
geir
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-956-2604(w)
Adeptra, Inc. 203-434-2093(m)
geirm@adeptra.com 203-247-1713(m)
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