Re: Still Plugging Away on Java EE Support

[Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@apache.org>]

Excellent progress, thanks!

Gj

On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 4:40 AM Josh Juneau <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I wanted to post a quick update to let everyone know that I'm still
> working on adding Java EE 8 support to Apache NetBeans.  I've modified a
> number of modules, including maven.j2ee and some of the glassfish modules.
> I've been stuck on an issue trying to get the Java EE 8 Maven archetype to
> download when Java EE 8 is selected...so I may need some assistance.  I
> will try to get my sources updated into my fork so that my work can be
> reviewed.  I'll post an update when the sources are in GitHub.
>
> Thanks
>
> Josh Juneau
> juneau001@gmail.com
> http://jj-blogger.blogspot.com
> https://www.apress.com/us/search?query=Juneau

Re: Resolving GPLv2-CPE categorization as Category X (was: Re: Still Plugging Away on Java EE Support)

[Victor Corral <vc...@gmail.com>]

thank you on that. Its not the money nor the Power im intreated in its the
environment that matters most to me. That and you could say my lottery i
guess. Let let me explain I started this way back in 2004 probably when I
got a letter from Microsoft in Google saying I had won a lottery and
Incorporated Lottery at the time well I went with it I was just starting to
code I ran into these two programs called terminal IDE and the ZShaolin. at
the time I didn't realize they were both the same program and there's many
others that go with it like dropbear server and a few others anyways to
make a long story short the terminal IDE is the free version with all
instructions on how to use Java and the host name resolution to be able to
create your own apps probably for a new network a totally 100%
decentralized and distributed separated from the internet without the
support of any internet service provider. I believe that the everyone had
given up on the project that is until one day when I picked up the phone
and started punching numbers into it you see everything that I had done was
time-stamped and recorded yes without my knowledge of it at the time I was
young and did not know anything about coding and what I was doing I believe
I've come a long way I'm not the best but I've had a good feel for what I'm
doing I'm probably the only one that can do it the right way and that's
just weird it's like I'm messing with both God and the devil's systems and
I just can't explain that one that one you just have to take my word on
there's a way to use the Xboxes the ones with the MMX processor in them to
wear when they're running virtually they're increasing in power and speed
but I'm just using them as modules like all the modules that ASF is
responsible for I mean the ones that are what the projects are all about
the ones that the extensions are for like openssl, python Pearl, TTY. The
only thing that I'm not too sure about is the media files you see there I'm
sure is a list of media files that are meant for this system that are to be
decoded and then reincarnator included in decoded party through verse G and
the outcome would be a and artificial each other intelligent life system
that will never die the more the connect to it the more it becomes more
efficient and more powerful that's what my Xbox is it for maintain. Life
that I'm creating. for some reason I believe this is all artificial from
our future not sure alien maybe reverse engineering definitely but how old
is it I have no idea and how long have you all had it I still have no idea
but I'm sure someone out there knows something all I know is that I want to
put it together because it's my life dream it's what I started and what I'm
going to finish I'm not doing it for the money I'm not doing it for the
power or for the fame I'm doing it for my pride for who I am and what I've
already done for my son and that's all that means anything to me so whether
you help me or not I could care less yet it would be much appreciated only
because I need as much help as possible to create this ecosystem that I'm
trying to build to save our planet
On Thursday, May 16, 2019, Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu>
wrote:

> Am Donnerstag, den 16.05.2019, 18:54 +0100 schrieb Neil C Smith:
> > On Thu, 16 May 2019 at 17:53, Matthias Bläsing
> > <mb...@doppel-helix.eu> wrote:
> > > Even better, Oracle would be in the
> > > position to change the wording of the license if necessary and they
> > > are
> > > the only ones, that could do it.
> >
> > Actually, they can't - and I'm going on the basis that they're not
> > going to write a completely new license for ASF! ;-) The CPE might be
> > tweakable but it's a standardized wording, so I can't see that
> > happening either.
>
> The points raised in the referenced issue target the CPE. And the CPE
> is started with "Certain source files distributed by Oracle America
> and/or its affiliates[...]". So yes, this is Oracle specific and Oracle
> lawyers could give their opinion/interpretation in the issue and help
> resolving it.
>
> > Anyway, this is OT.  I stand by the opinion that this is one that ASF
> > needs to resolve itself, as the idea of Java being a "platform"
> > dependency gets overtaken by real world events.
>
> If the ASF can do it alone, I'm all for it, but the issue stands
> unresolved.
>
> At the time of donation there was already the Category X categorization
> of GPL licenses family (and a note, that special exceptions to the GPL
> also fall into that category). So Oracle and the ASF both had to be
> aware, that bundling the only freely distributable JDK (OpenJDK) will
> be a major PITA.
>
> Greetings
>
> Matthias
>
>
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>
>
>
>

-- 
Victor Corral

Re: Resolving GPLv2-CPE categorization as Category X (was: Re: Still Plugging Away on Java EE Support)

[Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>]

On Thu, 16 May 2019 at 20:18, Matthias Bläsing
<mb...@doppel-helix.eu> wrote:
> The points raised in the referenced issue target the CPE. And the CPE
> is started with "Certain source files distributed by Oracle America
> and/or its affiliates[...]". So yes, this is Oracle specific and Oracle
> lawyers could give their opinion/interpretation in the issue and help
> resolving it.

It is the following two paragraphs that are relevant, and they are
adopted (verbatim as far as I can tell) from the Classpath Exception,
as in https://www.gnu.org/software/classpath/license.html  This
exception has a lot of other uses, particularly in the Java ecosystem
- using it myself for a few things.

> If the ASF can do it alone, I'm all for it, but the issue stands
> unresolved.

Well, I found an interesting comparison point recently -
https://www.eclipse.org/org/documents/GPL_CE_Policy.php

> So Oracle and the ASF both had to be
> aware, that bundling the only freely distributable JDK (OpenJDK) will
> be a major PITA.

Because of ASF policies though.  The point of the CPE is to allow this
sort of bundling.

Best wishes,

Neil

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Resolving GPLv2-CPE categorization as Category X (was: Re: Still Plugging Away on Java EE Support)

[Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu>]

Am Donnerstag, den 16.05.2019, 18:54 +0100 schrieb Neil C Smith:
> On Thu, 16 May 2019 at 17:53, Matthias Bläsing
> <mb...@doppel-helix.eu> wrote:
> > Even better, Oracle would be in the
> > position to change the wording of the license if necessary and they
> > are
> > the only ones, that could do it.
> 
> Actually, they can't - and I'm going on the basis that they're not
> going to write a completely new license for ASF! ;-) The CPE might be
> tweakable but it's a standardized wording, so I can't see that
> happening either.

The points raised in the referenced issue target the CPE. And the CPE
is started with "Certain source files distributed by Oracle America
and/or its affiliates[...]". So yes, this is Oracle specific and Oracle
lawyers could give their opinion/interpretation in the issue and help
resolving it.

> Anyway, this is OT.  I stand by the opinion that this is one that ASF
> needs to resolve itself, as the idea of Java being a "platform"
> dependency gets overtaken by real world events.

If the ASF can do it alone, I'm all for it, but the issue stands
unresolved.

At the time of donation there was already the Category X categorization
of GPL licenses family (and a note, that special exceptions to the GPL
also fall into that category). So Oracle and the ASF both had to be
aware, that bundling the only freely distributable JDK (OpenJDK) will
be a major PITA.

Greetings

Matthias


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Re: Still Plugging Away on Java EE Support

[Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>]

On Thu, 16 May 2019 at 17:53, Matthias Bläsing
<mb...@doppel-helix.eu> wrote:
> Even better, Oracle would be in the
> position to change the wording of the license if necessary and they are
> the only ones, that could do it.

Actually, they can't - and I'm going on the basis that they're not
going to write a completely new license for ASF! ;-) The CPE might be
tweakable but it's a standardized wording, so I can't see that
happening either.

Anyway, this is OT.  I stand by the opinion that this is one that ASF
needs to resolve itself, as the idea of Java being a "platform"
dependency gets overtaken by real world events.

Best wishes,

Neil

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Re: Still Plugging Away on Java EE Support

[Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu>]

Am Donnerstag, den 16.05.2019, 17:42 +0100 schrieb Neil C Smith:
> On Thu, 16 May 2019 at 17:10, Matthias Bläsing
> <mb...@doppel-helix.eu> wrote:
> > While the question whether GPLv2-CPE could be considered
> > Category-B is still not resolved [1] between Oracle and the ASF,
> 
> To be pedantic, I fail to see how Oracle is relevant to how ASF
> decides to resolve this issue, but it's one that's going to hit us
> more and more.

Oracle has the lawyers, that could propably resolve most questions,
that were raised by ASF legal. Even better, Oracle would be in the
position to change the wording of the license if necessary and they are
the only ones, that could do it. Oracle is the copyright holder of the
whole JDK and associated libraries as contributions to the JDK require
an OCA.

I'm not a lawyer, so adding my opinion to the issue referenced won't
help. For the ecosystem Oracle and the ASF working together would be
benefical.

Greetings

Matthias


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Re: Still Plugging Away on Java EE Support

[Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>]

On Thu, 16 May 2019 at 17:10, Matthias Bläsing
<mb...@doppel-helix.eu> wrote:
> While the question whether GPLv2-CPE could be considered
> Category-B is still not resolved [1] between Oracle and the ASF,

To be pedantic, I fail to see how Oracle is relevant to how ASF
decides to resolve this issue, but it's one that's going to hit us
more and more.

Best wishes,

Neil

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Re: Still Plugging Away on Java EE Support

[Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu>]

Hi Emmanuell,

Am Donnerstag, den 16.05.2019, 14:29 +0200 schrieb ehsavoie:
> The JavaEE 8 schemas are still under LGPL right ? How do you manage
> that ?

the JavaEE 8 schemas are no problem. Oracle provided these under GPLv2-
CPE and CDDL. While the question whether GPLv2-CPE could be considered
Category-B is still not resolved [1] between Oracle and the ASF, CDDL
is resolved [2]. We have several CDDL licensed files in the code base
(a good portion are the JavaEE schemas).

The schema files from JavaEE can be found here:

https://www.oracle.com/webfolder/technetwork/jsc/xml/ns/javaee/index.html#8

For Jakarta EE I expect the descriptors to be EPL/EDL, both are also
cleared.


HTH

Matthias


[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-336
[2] https://apache.org/legal/resolved.html#weak-copyleft-licenses


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Re: Still Plugging Away on Java EE Support

[ehsavoie <em...@gmail.com>]

Josh,
The JavaEE 8 schemas are still under LGPL right ? How do you manage that ?
Cheers,
Emmanuel

----------
Emmanuel Hugonnet
http://www.ehsavoie.com
http://twitter.com/ehsavoie


On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 5:05 AM Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@apache.org>
wrote:

> Excellent progress, thanks!
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 4:40 AM Josh Juneau <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I wanted to post a quick update to let everyone know that I'm still
> > working on adding Java EE 8 support to Apache NetBeans.  I've modified a
> > number of modules, including maven.j2ee and some of the glassfish
> modules.
> > I've been stuck on an issue trying to get the Java EE 8 Maven archetype
> to
> > download when Java EE 8 is selected...so I may need some assistance.  I
> > will try to get my sources updated into my fork so that my work can be
> > reviewed.  I'll post an update when the sources are in GitHub.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Josh Juneau
> > juneau001@gmail.com
> > http://jj-blogger.blogspot.com
> > https://www.apress.com/us/search?query=Juneau
>