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Posted to dev@flex.apache.org by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl> on 2015/03/17 07:31:09 UTC
[4.14.1] no help, no release
Hi,
This message is meant for everyone who thinks that if they wait long
enough, a release will spontaneously materialize. Or worse, that
someone else picks up the effort and it will get done anyway. That is
not how Open Source works. You have to help out if you want to move a
project forward...
I don't have the cycles to do much of the release work (update docs,
test builds, fix regressions etc.) myself, so if no-one moves, nothing
will happen.
EdB
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
AW: [4.14.1] no help, no release
Posted by Krüger,
Olaf <OK...@edscha.com>.
> This message is meant for everyone who thinks that if they wait long enough, a release will spontaneously materialize...
> If half of the folks on this list each found 30 minutes a month to work on FlexJS... that would result in 200 person-hours per month, which easily exceeds my total monthly output
I'm sure that there're a lot of people including me who always had a guilty conscience cause of only consuming new stuff without contributing anything.
But I'm also sure that there're a lot of people who are willing to contribute and if 30min per month would help to really move on any kind of Flex project even more.
I think the thing is that the hurdle before entering new stuff is always high... much more than 30 minutes ;-) Also I think a lot of us see themselves as application developer using an given Framework instead of developing it. This is another challenge.
Perhaps we could collect some ideas how to encourage the community to contribute and ideas how to scale down the hurdles?
To reach most of us my first idea is to send regular 'contribute invitation' emails to the dev AND users group. This email could contain all existing Flex projects with an extract of concrete upcoming tasks. Perhaps this makes it easier to all of us to find a concrete starting point to contribute?
Thanks,
Olaf
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 18. März 2015 07:12
An: dev@flex.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [4.14.1] no help, no release
On 3/17/15, 10:28 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@codeoscopic.com>
wrote:
>I think FlexJS has it own reason to live and could be a great option
>for people out there, but it need a muscle and union of mind that we
>don't have today. So it's difficult. It would need real investment of
>resources and some top companies pushing it forward. I don't think in
>Adobe, since it's not anymore the kind of company it used to be, and
>nowadays for me does not have any interest at all, at least for me.
Yes, finding some money and resources would help, but I think one of the reasons Flex is at Apache is to find out if the “Apache Way” can also produce the same or even better results. As most of you learned, relying on a corporation to create and maintain a project is only good until that corporation changes its mind. A major principle behind Apache projects is to be free of corporate decision making. Adobe can stop paying me to work on Flex, but it can’t stop me from working on Flex.
So, as I understand it, the Apache Way would be that the 800 or so folks on this mailing list all try to find even a little bit of time to work on FlexJS. I’ve purposefully set up a programming pattern in FlexJS called beads that tries to encapsulate functionality into small classes so that folks working in their spare time can have a better chance at succeeding quickly than trying to change a 13,000 line class and run all of its tests. If half of the folks on this list each found 30 minutes a month to work on FlexJS by contributing a single unit or feature test, or ASDoc comment, or a small feature, that would result in 200 person-hours per month, which easily exceeds my total monthly output.
I’d say we don’t even need union of mind. FlexJS isn’t supposed to have one component set, it is supposed to have many. Folks who want low-level components can provide those, folks who want a more Spark-like API can write those. You can wrap, hopefully, any procedurally-written JS UI toolkit and use that. See the version of FlexJSStore that has a few Jquery components in it.
Now for sure, if you start in now, you’re going to have to be patient as there are plenty of rough spots and you may not get a lot done in your 30 minutes, but I will try to prioritize unblocking new contributors, so if you don’t give up and keep finding another 30 minutes in the future, hopefully you will eventually start getting this ball rolling.
So, the muscle can be one corporation that can push really hard and then decide to stop pushing, or it can be several people just leaning in.
Can you be one of those people?
-Alex
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Re: [4.14.1] no help, no release
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 3/17/15, 10:28 PM, "Carlos Rovira" <ca...@codeoscopic.com>
wrote:
>I think FlexJS has it own reason to live and could be a great option for
>people out there, but it need a muscle and union of mind that we don't
>have
>today. So it's difficult. It would need real investment of resources and
>some top companies pushing it forward. I don't think in Adobe, since it's
>not anymore the kind of company it used to be, and nowadays for me does
>not
>have any interest at all, at least for me.
Yes, finding some money and resources would help, but I think one of the
reasons Flex is at Apache is to find out if the “Apache Way” can also
produce the same or even better results. As most of you learned, relying
on a corporation to create and maintain a project is only good until that
corporation changes its mind. A major principle behind Apache projects is
to be free of corporate decision making. Adobe can stop paying me to work
on Flex, but it can’t stop me from working on Flex.
So, as I understand it, the Apache Way would be that the 800 or so folks
on this mailing list all try to find even a little bit of time to work on
FlexJS. I’ve purposefully set up a programming pattern in FlexJS called
beads that tries to encapsulate functionality into small classes so that
folks working in their spare time can have a better chance at succeeding
quickly than trying to change a 13,000 line class and run all of its
tests. If half of the folks on this list each found 30 minutes a month to
work on FlexJS by contributing a single unit or feature test, or ASDoc
comment, or a small feature, that would result in 200 person-hours per
month, which easily exceeds my total monthly output.
I’d say we don’t even need union of mind. FlexJS isn’t supposed to have
one component set, it is supposed to have many. Folks who want low-level
components can provide those, folks who want a more Spark-like API can
write those. You can wrap, hopefully, any procedurally-written JS UI
toolkit and use that. See the version of FlexJSStore that has a few
Jquery components in it.
Now for sure, if you start in now, you’re going to have to be patient as
there are plenty of rough spots and you may not get a lot done in your 30
minutes, but I will try to prioritize unblocking new contributors, so if
you don’t give up and keep finding another 30 minutes in the future,
hopefully you will eventually start getting this ball rolling.
So, the muscle can be one corporation that can push really hard and then
decide to stop pushing, or it can be several people just leaning in.
Can you be one of those people?
-Alex
Re: [4.14.1] no help, no release
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@codeoscopic.com>.
About JS frameworks, The only option I've been looking recently that makes
make think "this could be something like flex" (but it's not today), is
Google Dart + Polymer Dart. I think Dart is a cool technology and seems
google is pushing it, but in the background behind AngularJS. But there's
OOP, classes, development without (that's one of the coolest features).
Here's a PDF about it if you're interested:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8496144/dart-and-web-components-javazone-2013.pdf
The weak part is the state of Polymer Dart as a web component standard
implementation I think they need get a bit far. (For example, for what I
see, there's no a list component like in Flex, and If you want to select an
item, you need to manualy refresh the drawing of the list and manage all
the internal things. I see a friend of mine implementing a polymer
component set ala Flex style in this technology and he's getting something
cool between the two worlds, but again a single person effort that doesn't
follow a global and trending path in this nightmare we are living this
days, without doubt, for me, the darkest hours of web development era).
I think FlexJS has it own reason to live and could be a great option for
people out there, but it need a muscle and union of mind that we don't have
today. So it's difficult. It would need real investment of resources and
some top companies pushing it forward. I don't think in Adobe, since it's
not anymore the kind of company it used to be, and nowadays for me does not
have any interest at all, at least for me.
We have a marketing problem? for sure, but it's difficult in the actual
state of the art make people join the technology. I think it could happen
eventually near a 1.0, as technology could make several kind of things.
Maybe this cool FlexJS technology could be rebranded or live outside the
Flex ecosystem and be revamped so people could see it as something new and
fresh.
If you ask me about what to spend the time...well, my vote is for FlexJS,
since it's the future and Flex (traditional) is enough robust and always
will have issues to spend time and fix, but FlexJS is a baby that is in
incubation and could not survive without intervention.
Best,
Carlos
2015-03-18 5:49 GMT+01:00 Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>:
>
>
> On 3/17/15, 8:19 PM, "kevin.godell" <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >When the 4.14.1 RC became available, I noticed that the 4.15 nightly is no
> >longer available in the windows apache flex installer. Is that the way it
> >is
> >supposed to work? Is 4.14.1 made from the nightly? Forgive my ignorance,
> >but
> >I am trying to follow along and stay up to date with the latest
> >developments.
>
> Yes 4.14.1 == nightly. They nightly build is built off the develop branch
> instead of a release branch so it can sometimes contain a change we don’t
> want in the the next release, but most of the time all changes are in both
> branches.
>
> -Alex
>
>
--
Carlos Rovira
Director General
M: +34 607 22 60 05
http://www.codeoscopic.com
http://www.avant2.es
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Re: [4.14.1] no help, no release
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 3/17/15, 8:19 PM, "kevin.godell" <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>When the 4.14.1 RC became available, I noticed that the 4.15 nightly is no
>longer available in the windows apache flex installer. Is that the way it
>is
>supposed to work? Is 4.14.1 made from the nightly? Forgive my ignorance,
>but
>I am trying to follow along and stay up to date with the latest
>developments.
Yes 4.14.1 == nightly. They nightly build is built off the develop branch
instead of a release branch so it can sometimes contain a change we don’t
want in the the next release, but most of the time all changes are in both
branches.
-Alex
Re: [4.14.1] no help, no release
Posted by "kevin.godell" <ke...@gmail.com>.
When the 4.14.1 RC became available, I noticed that the 4.15 nightly is no
longer available in the windows apache flex installer. Is that the way it is
supposed to work? Is 4.14.1 made from the nightly? Forgive my ignorance, but
I am trying to follow along and stay up to date with the latest
developments.
--
View this message in context: http://apache-flex-development.2333347.n4.nabble.com/4-14-1-no-help-no-release-tp45567p45598.html
Sent from the Apache Flex Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [4.14.1] no help, no release
Posted by OmPrakash Muppirala <bi...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
> >> What needs to be done for the SDK (at least):
> >> - the docs need updating/completing
> >>
> > If I understand correct, that means the README and RELEASE_NOTES. I can
> > start working on this right away. Are there any other docs to be
> updated?
>
> CONTRIBUTORS?
>
Okay. Updated RELEASE_NOTES and CONTRIBUTORS. README looks fine as it is.
Also updated the relevant JIRA tickets.
>
> >> What needs to be done for the Installer (at least):
> >> - final commits to solve the most pressing problems need to land
> >> - a JIRA with subs for the release steps needs to be created
> >> - the docs need updating
> >> - the legal stuff needs an OK (which may already have happened, I may
> >> of missed that)
> >> - testing in the wild will surely help, given the fickle nature of the
> >> stuff we're trying to solve...
> >>
> >
> > The subject of this email says 4.14.1. I don't think we need to release
> > both at the same time, right?
>
> One of the points of the point update was to have a simultaneous
> release of the SDK and Installer. This in case the Installer needed
> changes made to the SDK.
>
> > Please point to the JIRA tickets? If you have sent an email out before,
> > send a link to that one.
>
> http://markmail.org/message/7yhvomyildk46phj
>
> EdB
>
>
>
Thanks,
Om
>
> --
> Ix Multimedia Software
>
> Jan Luykenstraat 27
> 3521 VB Utrecht
>
> T. 06-51952295
> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
>
Re: [4.14.1] no help, no release
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
>> What needs to be done for the SDK (at least):
>> - the docs need updating/completing
>>
> If I understand correct, that means the README and RELEASE_NOTES. I can
> start working on this right away. Are there any other docs to be updated?
CONTRIBUTORS?
>> What needs to be done for the Installer (at least):
>> - final commits to solve the most pressing problems need to land
>> - a JIRA with subs for the release steps needs to be created
>> - the docs need updating
>> - the legal stuff needs an OK (which may already have happened, I may
>> of missed that)
>> - testing in the wild will surely help, given the fickle nature of the
>> stuff we're trying to solve...
>>
>
> The subject of this email says 4.14.1. I don't think we need to release
> both at the same time, right?
One of the points of the point update was to have a simultaneous
release of the SDK and Installer. This in case the Installer needed
changes made to the SDK.
> Please point to the JIRA tickets? If you have sent an email out before,
> send a link to that one.
http://markmail.org/message/7yhvomyildk46phj
EdB
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
Re: [4.14.1] no help, no release
Posted by OmPrakash Muppirala <bi...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
> Wow, does GMail not like two threads with the same subject on
> different mailing lists... :-)
>
> Anyway, back on dev@:
>
> The release process is where it was when it was started:
>
> - the branches are cut
> - the tests are running on those branches
> - the JIRA for the SDK release is created and updated
> - the nightly builds for both branches are running
>
> What needs to be done for the SDK (at least):
> - the docs need updating/completing
>
If I understand correct, that means the README and RELEASE_NOTES. I can
start working on this right away. Are there any other docs to be updated?
>
> What needs to be done for the Installer (at least):
> - final commits to solve the most pressing problems need to land
> - a JIRA with subs for the release steps needs to be created
> - the docs need updating
> - the legal stuff needs an OK (which may already have happened, I may
> of missed that)
> - testing in the wild will surely help, given the fickle nature of the
> stuff we're trying to solve...
>
The subject of this email says 4.14.1. I don't think we need to release
both at the same time, right?
>
> The above is a summary, the JIRA tickets (should) have all the details.
>
Please point to the JIRA tickets? If you have sent an email out before,
send a link to that one.
Thanks,
Om
>
> Thanks,
>
> EdB
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
> > We are were we started: the branches are cut, the builds are running,
> > the SDK release JIRA is created and updated, and... nothing.
> >
> > Let's take this back to dev@
> >
> > EdB
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 5:16 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala
> > <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Mar 16, 2015 11:33 PM, "Erik de Bruin" <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> This message is meant for everyone who thinks that if they wait long
> >>> enough, a release will spontaneously materialize. Or worse, that
> >>> someone else picks up the effort and it will get done anyway. That is
> >>> not how Open Source works. You have to help out if you want to move a
> >>> project forward...
> >>>
> >>> I don't have the cycles to do much of the release work (update docs,
> >>> test builds, fix regressions etc.) myself, so if no-one moves, nothing
> >>> will happen.
> >>
> >> Can you give an update as to where things are with the release process?
> >> What can I do to help?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Om
> >>
> >>>
> >>> EdB
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Ix Multimedia Software
> >>>
> >>> Jan Luykenstraat 27
> >>> 3521 VB Utrecht
> >>>
> >>> T. 06-51952295
> >>> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ix Multimedia Software
> >
> > Jan Luykenstraat 27
> > 3521 VB Utrecht
> >
> > T. 06-51952295
> > I. www.ixsoftware.nl
>
>
>
> --
> Ix Multimedia Software
>
> Jan Luykenstraat 27
> 3521 VB Utrecht
>
> T. 06-51952295
> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
>
Re: [4.14.1] no help, no release
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
Wow, does GMail not like two threads with the same subject on
different mailing lists... :-)
Anyway, back on dev@:
The release process is where it was when it was started:
- the branches are cut
- the tests are running on those branches
- the JIRA for the SDK release is created and updated
- the nightly builds for both branches are running
What needs to be done for the SDK (at least):
- the docs need updating/completing
What needs to be done for the Installer (at least):
- final commits to solve the most pressing problems need to land
- a JIRA with subs for the release steps needs to be created
- the docs need updating
- the legal stuff needs an OK (which may already have happened, I may
of missed that)
- testing in the wild will surely help, given the fickle nature of the
stuff we're trying to solve...
The above is a summary, the JIRA tickets (should) have all the details.
Thanks,
EdB
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
> We are were we started: the branches are cut, the builds are running,
> the SDK release JIRA is created and updated, and... nothing.
>
> Let's take this back to dev@
>
> EdB
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 5:16 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala
> <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mar 16, 2015 11:33 PM, "Erik de Bruin" <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> This message is meant for everyone who thinks that if they wait long
>>> enough, a release will spontaneously materialize. Or worse, that
>>> someone else picks up the effort and it will get done anyway. That is
>>> not how Open Source works. You have to help out if you want to move a
>>> project forward...
>>>
>>> I don't have the cycles to do much of the release work (update docs,
>>> test builds, fix regressions etc.) myself, so if no-one moves, nothing
>>> will happen.
>>
>> Can you give an update as to where things are with the release process?
>> What can I do to help?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Om
>>
>>>
>>> EdB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ix Multimedia Software
>>>
>>> Jan Luykenstraat 27
>>> 3521 VB Utrecht
>>>
>>> T. 06-51952295
>>> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
>
>
>
> --
> Ix Multimedia Software
>
> Jan Luykenstraat 27
> 3521 VB Utrecht
>
> T. 06-51952295
> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
Re: [4.14.1] no help, no release
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
> Okay, let me rephrase my question. What needs to be done next? I am still
> not clear how the less-RC process is supposed to progress.
LessRC is easy:
1. develop
2. cut branch
3. stabilize/prepare/test
4. create RC
5. vote
6. release
We are now, for both projects, in step 3. We can only progress to 4
when I (the RM) am satisfied that the quality of the branch is
sufficient to warrant a release.
The idea behind 'less-RC' is to make sure that the nightly artifacts
are of sufficient quality that an RC has no remaining issues and only
needs to be tested for release criteria (sigs etc.).
HTH,
EdB
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
Re: [4.14.1] no help, no release
Posted by OmPrakash Muppirala <bi...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
> We are were we started: the branches are cut, the builds are running,
> the SDK release JIRA is created and updated, and... nothing.
>
> Let's take this back to dev@
>
We are in dev@ :-)
Okay, let me rephrase my question. What needs to be done next? I am still
not clear how the less-RC process is supposed to progress.
Thanks,
Om
>
> EdB
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 5:16 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala
> <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mar 16, 2015 11:33 PM, "Erik de Bruin" <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> This message is meant for everyone who thinks that if they wait long
> >> enough, a release will spontaneously materialize. Or worse, that
> >> someone else picks up the effort and it will get done anyway. That is
> >> not how Open Source works. You have to help out if you want to move a
> >> project forward...
> >>
> >> I don't have the cycles to do much of the release work (update docs,
> >> test builds, fix regressions etc.) myself, so if no-one moves, nothing
> >> will happen.
> >
> > Can you give an update as to where things are with the release process?
> > What can I do to help?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Om
> >
> >>
> >> EdB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ix Multimedia Software
> >>
> >> Jan Luykenstraat 27
> >> 3521 VB Utrecht
> >>
> >> T. 06-51952295
> >> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
>
>
>
> --
> Ix Multimedia Software
>
> Jan Luykenstraat 27
> 3521 VB Utrecht
>
> T. 06-51952295
> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
>
Re: [4.14.1] no help, no release
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
We are were we started: the branches are cut, the builds are running,
the SDK release JIRA is created and updated, and... nothing.
Let's take this back to dev@
EdB
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 5:16 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala
<bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 16, 2015 11:33 PM, "Erik de Bruin" <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This message is meant for everyone who thinks that if they wait long
>> enough, a release will spontaneously materialize. Or worse, that
>> someone else picks up the effort and it will get done anyway. That is
>> not how Open Source works. You have to help out if you want to move a
>> project forward...
>>
>> I don't have the cycles to do much of the release work (update docs,
>> test builds, fix regressions etc.) myself, so if no-one moves, nothing
>> will happen.
>
> Can you give an update as to where things are with the release process?
> What can I do to help?
>
> Thanks,
> Om
>
>>
>> EdB
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ix Multimedia Software
>>
>> Jan Luykenstraat 27
>> 3521 VB Utrecht
>>
>> T. 06-51952295
>> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
Re: [4.14.1] no help, no release
Posted by OmPrakash Muppirala <bi...@gmail.com>.
On Mar 16, 2015 11:33 PM, "Erik de Bruin" <er...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> This message is meant for everyone who thinks that if they wait long
> enough, a release will spontaneously materialize. Or worse, that
> someone else picks up the effort and it will get done anyway. That is
> not how Open Source works. You have to help out if you want to move a
> project forward...
>
> I don't have the cycles to do much of the release work (update docs,
> test builds, fix regressions etc.) myself, so if no-one moves, nothing
> will happen.
Can you give an update as to where things are with the release process?
What can I do to help?
Thanks,
Om
>
> EdB
>
>
>
> --
> Ix Multimedia Software
>
> Jan Luykenstraat 27
> 3521 VB Utrecht
>
> T. 06-51952295
> I. www.ixsoftware.nl