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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Christian Lenz <el...@gmx.de> on 2017/10/12 21:40:44 UTC
NetBeans 9 release date
Often People ask for NetBeans 9 and yes we already know that, because geertjan often said that it is up to all of us 😉. But often People only want to be users as I say it often. They want to use NetBeans. Ok anyway but the Thing is, do we have a specific date like a release Roadmap for NB 9.0 for the first release? If not, then we should have one. The old Roadmap from Oracle is now obsolete, right? So we should think about it.
Cheers
Chris
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 3:15 AM, Javier Ortiz <ja...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> If NetBeans was unique there would be more help since there were no other
> options. But if your time is limited and not available or buggy on NetBeans
> you just look around and there are other options.
>
> Personally the open source project I got deeply evolved were unique in one
> way or another or I created myself due to the same reason. That's why I
> believe we don't see the other millions of users.
For all these use cases, NetBeans is completely unique and the developers
working on these projects are going to be -- and are already -- a key
demographic that will be driving NetBeans forward:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/on+top+of+NetBeans
Thanks,
Gj
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>
> wrote:
>
>> ➢ Where exactly would you like to see information on netbeans.org re
>> Apache?
>> ➢ I can see it already myself, it's been there for months -- but where
>> would
>> ➢ you like to see it, where are you looking and not finding the
>> Information
>> ➢ about NetBeans being at Apache?
>>
>> Where are the Information about it on netbeans.org? Only when you click
>> on community. On the main page it says it is Oracle no Apache info at all.
>> Maybe a link to the new one and to more info, right on the main page, which
>> should be more attractive, should be there.
>>
>
>
> OK, will work on the main page, to add that info more explicitly -- do we
> have a central page at Apache we should point to from there? E.g., maybe we
> should point here from various places on the front page of netbeans.org:
> cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS Or is there a different
> place to point to? Which page would be most effective?
>
On the front page of netbeans.org, I think this text:
"NetBeans IDE is FREE, open source, and has a worldwide community of users
and developers.”
...should be changed to this text:
“NetBeans IDE is free, open source, and is moving to Apache!”
And there should be a link connected to that sentence, pointing to
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS.
Would that help? Or what/where specifically on the front page of
netbeans.org should there be info about Apache? I think the above would be
a simple start -- though any other ideas are welcome.
Gj
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Antonio <an...@vieiro.net> wrote:
>
>
> On 13/10/17 10:19, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>
>>
>> OK, will work on the main page, to add that info more explicitly -- do we
>> have a central page at Apache we should point to from there? E.g., maybe
>> we
>> should point here from various places on the front page of netbeans.org:
>> cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS Or is there a different
>> place
>> to point to? Which page would be most effective?
>>
>
> I think it's important to think how we're going to transfer good Google
> positioning of tutorials, etc. i.e., have a good SEO transition.
>
>
Great point, can you add this info and other ideas to this part of the Wiki:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetBeans+Site
That way we have a central place where all related details can be
centralized.
Gj
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Antonio <an...@vieiro.net>.
On 13/10/17 10:19, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>
> OK, will work on the main page, to add that info more explicitly -- do we
> have a central page at Apache we should point to from there? E.g., maybe we
> should point here from various places on the front page of netbeans.org:
> cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS Or is there a different place
> to point to? Which page would be most effective?
I think it's important to think how we're going to transfer good Google
positioning of tutorials, etc. i.e., have a good SEO transition.
"Relaunching Your Site? Don’t Even Think About It Without A Solid SEO
Game Plan!" [1] is probably worth a read.
It's the first thing I found in Google, but it has the basics of a
transition plan.
Cheers,
Antonio
[1]
https://searchengineland.com/relaunching-site-dont-even-think-without-solid-seo-game-plan-231315
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>
wrote:
> ➢ Where exactly would you like to see information on netbeans.org re
> Apache?
> ➢ I can see it already myself, it's been there for months -- but where
> would
> ➢ you like to see it, where are you looking and not finding the Information
> ➢ about NetBeans being at Apache?
>
> Where are the Information about it on netbeans.org? Only when you click
> on community. On the main page it says it is Oracle no Apache info at all.
> Maybe a link to the new one and to more info, right on the main page, which
> should be more attractive, should be there.
>
OK, will work on the main page, to add that info more explicitly -- do we
have a central page at Apache we should point to from there? E.g., maybe we
should point here from various places on the front page of netbeans.org:
cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS Or is there a different place
to point to? Which page would be most effective?
>
> > What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things, for
> > others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you can
> > play in this project.
>
> I will add more and more tickets from time to time. The thing is, when
> NetBeans was under Oracle and Java EE too, NB Should be the best IDE for
> Java at all. But all the handy, little Features that intelliJ has for Java
> developers and for all others, are so great and amazing, I created a lot of
> tickets where I mentioned those IDEs and I will do more. Only to let you
> know that.
>
>
I don't think it's a question of adding more and more tickets.
Instead, start a new mail thread with a specific missing feature, something
small -- and let's discuss that feature via a mail thread, first. Then, at
some point in the discussion, someone will say, let's create an issue
around this feature, now that we've discussed it, and someone else will
say, hey I think I know how to fix that, let me try and then I'll send a
pull request for others to review.
This more interactive way of discussing missing features might work better
than filing an issue and hoping someone will look at it.
If you find this idea useful, we could experiment with one small feature or
aspect of usability, e.g., someone starts a thread with a tag
[ENHANCEMENT-REQUEST] and explains clearly some small aspect of NetBeans
that is simply annoying and shouldn't be hard to fix. Then we discuss that
as a community and you'll probably find that once that has been clearly
discussed and we all know what we're talking about, that someone will step
forward to fix it.
Gj
AW: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
➢ Where exactly would you like to see information on netbeans.org re Apache?
➢ I can see it already myself, it's been there for months -- but where would
➢ you like to see it, where are you looking and not finding the Information
➢ about NetBeans being at Apache?
Where are the Information about it on netbeans.org? Only when you click on community. On the main page it says it is Oracle no Apache info at all. Maybe a link to the new one and to more info, right on the main page, which should be more attractive, should be there.
> What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things, for
> others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you can
> play in this project.
I will add more and more tickets from time to time. The thing is, when NetBeans was under Oracle and Java EE too, NB Should be the best IDE for Java at all. But all the handy, little Features that intelliJ has for Java developers and for all others, are so great and amazing, I created a lot of tickets where I mentioned those IDEs and I will do more. Only to let you know that.
Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Oktober 2017 10:00
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans 9 release date
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 6:08 AM, Peter Steele <st...@gmail.com> wrote:
> - netbeans.org is totally void of any Apache information, if you want more
> people involved then communication should be updated there.
>
Where exactly would you like to see information on netbeans.org re Apache?
I can see it already myself, it's been there for months -- but where would
you like to see it, where are you looking and not finding the information
about NetBeans being at Apache?
> - some sort of date or regularly updated checklist to show what needs to be
> done before the next release is sorely being missed
>
Here it is:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/List+of+Modules+to+Review
> - I am a big netbeans fan but moved over to the intellij community edition
> because I didn't see oracle really investing much in making netbeans
> "modern".
What do you mean by that? Modern in terms of user interface? Modern in
terms of features -- which features are needed to making NetBeans modern?
> I'd love to move back because I think as a community driven
> project it can bridge the difference in feature gaps that exist. I far
> prefer core netbeans as an ide to intellij or eclipse but it's the many
> small things that are missing that makes it hard to beat those other
> platforms in terms of every day usability.
>
What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things, for
others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you can
play in this project.
Thanks,
Gj
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 12:04 AM, Martin Dindoffer <md...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Sure, I was just trying to explain myself, and also the opinions of others
> around me. Of course Netbeans has many positives, otherwise I wouldn't use
> it. But we need to take a sober realistic look at it if we want to move it
> forward and make it a top notch IDE it once was.
>
> I actually have to endure a lot of jokes and questions like "when will you
> use a real IDE?" from my colleagues and friends. Believe it or not, there
> is a reason why NB has such a bad reputation among devs.
> I very much believe my lone continued usage of NB is a good way of
> advocating for NB.
>
> Martin
Sure, but you also need to stop this -- NetBeans has a great reputation,
too.
Much appreciate your continuing usage and support and so on, however,
there's no need to excuse yourself to anyone about usage of NetBeans.
Here's something you can refer to, i.e., NetBeans usage in real large
enterprises, e.g., Boeing, NASA, and so on:
https://dzone.com/articles/five-favorite-netbeans-features
Gj
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Martin Dindoffer <md...@gmail.com>.
Sure, I was just trying to explain myself, and also the opinions of others
around me. Of course Netbeans has many positives, otherwise I wouldn't use
it. But we need to take a sober realistic look at it if we want to move it
forward and make it a top notch IDE it once was.
I actually have to endure a lot of jokes and questions like "when will you
use a real IDE?" from my colleagues and friends. Believe it or not, there
is a reason why NB has such a bad reputation among devs.
I very much believe my lone continued usage of NB is a good way of
advocating for NB.
Martin
Dňa 13.10.2017 22:51 používateľ "Geertjan Wielenga" <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> napísal:
> On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 at 22:10, Martin Dindoffer <md...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Maven, just like everything else, lacks some of the refinements that can
> be
> > found in other IDEs.
>
>
> Other IDEs let you point to any folder containing a POM and let you open it
> without any import process? Without adding any IDE-specific files to the
> project? That's what the previous mail in this thread is about. And do
> other IDEs let you map a target in your POM to a keyboard shortcut?
>
> Sure, let's work on making Maven in NetBeans even better. But let's
> appreciate its unique and special features, too. NetBeans is a GUI around
> the Maven command line. Sure, it can be even better, but let's stop this
> 'lacks some of the refinements' angle while we know that NetBeans is more
> refined in several areas, too.
>
> Gj
>
> >
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 at 22:10, Martin Dindoffer <md...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Maven, just like everything else, lacks some of the refinements that can be
> found in other IDEs.
Other IDEs let you point to any folder containing a POM and let you open it
without any import process? Without adding any IDE-specific files to the
project? That's what the previous mail in this thread is about. And do
other IDEs let you map a target in your POM to a keyboard shortcut?
Sure, let's work on making Maven in NetBeans even better. But let's
appreciate its unique and special features, too. NetBeans is a GUI around
the Maven command line. Sure, it can be even better, but let's stop this
'lacks some of the refinements' angle while we know that NetBeans is more
refined in several areas, too.
Gj
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net>.
Hi Martin,
Thanks for your feedback. Good to know you’re still using NetBeans. By “Eclipse’s dependency tree tool” what do you mean? Something like [1] or like [2]?
Should we move these kind of emails to the user list?
Thanks,
Antonio
[1] https://books.sonatype.com/m2eclipse-book/reference/figs/web/eclipse_pom-editor-graph-radial.png
[2] https://books.sonatype.com/m2eclipse-book/reference/figs/web/eclipse_pom-editor-depend-tree.png
> El 13 oct 2017, a las 22:10, Martin Dindoffer <md...@gmail.com> escribió:
>
> Maven, just like everything else, lacks some of the refinements that can be
> found in other IDEs.
>
> For example, you can't "ctrl+click" through the remote parent references in
> the poms.
> And that's a pita in large projects where parents are often only in some
> remote repos.
>
> Also, what if you generate sources with a maven plugin into a folder
> different from "/target/generated-sources/" ?
> As always - other IDEs handle it with no problems, but Netbeans does not
> recognize them and you can't do nothing about it.
> There was an issue for this way back then. It was closed as won't fix IIRC.
>
> Also, take a look at Eclipse's dependency tree tool. Compared to that
> Netbeans has only the "graph" that
>
> 1. looks outdated,
> 2. has visual glitches on newer systems
> 3. quickly becomes a slow mess in large projects
> 4. does not show you the actual tree hierarchy (unbelievably useful, again
> in big projects with many parents)
>
> Martin
>
> 2017-10-13 19:03 GMT+02:00 Ciprian Ciubotariu <ch...@gmx.net>:
>
>> The netbeans-maven integration is waaa...aay better than what I found in
>> eclipse and intellij. Maven projects are basically native netbeans
>> projects -
>> no extra files necessary. Unless you want to do something in your IDE that
>> you
>> don't want to write in pom.xml, I guess...
>>
>> On Friday, 13 October 2017 13:41:34 EEST Martin Dindoffer wrote:
>>>> What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things,
>> for
>>>> others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you
>> can
>>>> play in this project.
>>>
>>> Hi there, fellow Java developer here.
>>> The thing is, as others have pointed out, Netbeans is quite behind other
>>> major IDEs and the list of the small things would be really huge.
>>> Also, you already have a list. A bug list. And a big one. Do you think
>>> those hundreds of bugs are not relevant anymore because they are old?
>>> Absolutely not.
>>> If you'd like to know about some specific issues I'm dealing with:
>>> * Maven integration is bad. Compared to competition it is slow, the
>>> periodic indexing is painful. The dependency graph generator is unusable
>> on
>>> large projects.
>>> * JavaFX support is almost non-existent.
>>> * The Java refactorings lack many of the features intellij has.
>>> * Some lesser known languages do not have any plugin/support. (Yang
>> anyone?)
>>> * When an external changes happen to a larger codebase, NB takes up to a
>>> minute or two to cope with it and reopen everything or whatever it does.
>> *
>>> Those little mising features everyone speaks about are everywhere from
>>> lacking colors in maven terminal output to javadoc popups not parsing
>> html.
>>>
>>> I use Netbeans at work for regular development. The amount of exceptions
>> I
>>> receive from the IDE varies from 3 - 12 every day.
>>> There's a plethora of visual glitches and errors. Sometimes it even likes
>>> to crash.
>>> Is the exception reporter tool still being used by the devs? Or should
>>> everything be reported via a ticket manually.
>>>
>>>> Instead, start a new mail thread with a specific missing feature,
>>>
>>> something
>>>
>>>> small -- and let's discuss that feature via a mail thread, first.
>> Then, at
>>>> some point in the discussion, someone will say, let's create an issue
>>>> around this feature, now that we've discussed it, and someone else will
>>>> say, hey I think I know how to fix that, let me try and then I'll send
>> a
>>>> pull request for others to review.
>>>
>>> I really do not think a mail thread for each little change is a good
>> idea.
>>> Just because of the sheer amount of bugs and features.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Martin Dindoffer <md...@gmail.com>.
Maven, just like everything else, lacks some of the refinements that can be
found in other IDEs.
For example, you can't "ctrl+click" through the remote parent references in
the poms.
And that's a pita in large projects where parents are often only in some
remote repos.
Also, what if you generate sources with a maven plugin into a folder
different from "/target/generated-sources/" ?
As always - other IDEs handle it with no problems, but Netbeans does not
recognize them and you can't do nothing about it.
There was an issue for this way back then. It was closed as won't fix IIRC.
Also, take a look at Eclipse's dependency tree tool. Compared to that
Netbeans has only the "graph" that
1. looks outdated,
2. has visual glitches on newer systems
3. quickly becomes a slow mess in large projects
4. does not show you the actual tree hierarchy (unbelievably useful, again
in big projects with many parents)
Martin
2017-10-13 19:03 GMT+02:00 Ciprian Ciubotariu <ch...@gmx.net>:
> The netbeans-maven integration is waaa...aay better than what I found in
> eclipse and intellij. Maven projects are basically native netbeans
> projects -
> no extra files necessary. Unless you want to do something in your IDE that
> you
> don't want to write in pom.xml, I guess...
>
> On Friday, 13 October 2017 13:41:34 EEST Martin Dindoffer wrote:
> > > What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things,
> for
> > > others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you
> can
> > > play in this project.
> >
> > Hi there, fellow Java developer here.
> > The thing is, as others have pointed out, Netbeans is quite behind other
> > major IDEs and the list of the small things would be really huge.
> > Also, you already have a list. A bug list. And a big one. Do you think
> > those hundreds of bugs are not relevant anymore because they are old?
> > Absolutely not.
> > If you'd like to know about some specific issues I'm dealing with:
> > * Maven integration is bad. Compared to competition it is slow, the
> > periodic indexing is painful. The dependency graph generator is unusable
> on
> > large projects.
> > * JavaFX support is almost non-existent.
> > * The Java refactorings lack many of the features intellij has.
> > * Some lesser known languages do not have any plugin/support. (Yang
> anyone?)
> > * When an external changes happen to a larger codebase, NB takes up to a
> > minute or two to cope with it and reopen everything or whatever it does.
> *
> > Those little mising features everyone speaks about are everywhere from
> > lacking colors in maven terminal output to javadoc popups not parsing
> html.
> >
> > I use Netbeans at work for regular development. The amount of exceptions
> I
> > receive from the IDE varies from 3 - 12 every day.
> > There's a plethora of visual glitches and errors. Sometimes it even likes
> > to crash.
> > Is the exception reporter tool still being used by the devs? Or should
> > everything be reported via a ticket manually.
> >
> > > Instead, start a new mail thread with a specific missing feature,
> >
> > something
> >
> > > small -- and let's discuss that feature via a mail thread, first.
> Then, at
> > > some point in the discussion, someone will say, let's create an issue
> > > around this feature, now that we've discussed it, and someone else will
> > > say, hey I think I know how to fix that, let me try and then I'll send
> a
> > > pull request for others to review.
> >
> > I really do not think a mail thread for each little change is a good
> idea.
> > Just because of the sheer amount of bugs and features.
> >
> > Martin
>
>
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Ciprian Ciubotariu <ch...@gmx.net>.
The netbeans-maven integration is waaa...aay better than what I found in
eclipse and intellij. Maven projects are basically native netbeans projects -
no extra files necessary. Unless you want to do something in your IDE that you
don't want to write in pom.xml, I guess...
On Friday, 13 October 2017 13:41:34 EEST Martin Dindoffer wrote:
> > What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things, for
> > others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you can
> > play in this project.
>
> Hi there, fellow Java developer here.
> The thing is, as others have pointed out, Netbeans is quite behind other
> major IDEs and the list of the small things would be really huge.
> Also, you already have a list. A bug list. And a big one. Do you think
> those hundreds of bugs are not relevant anymore because they are old?
> Absolutely not.
> If you'd like to know about some specific issues I'm dealing with:
> * Maven integration is bad. Compared to competition it is slow, the
> periodic indexing is painful. The dependency graph generator is unusable on
> large projects.
> * JavaFX support is almost non-existent.
> * The Java refactorings lack many of the features intellij has.
> * Some lesser known languages do not have any plugin/support. (Yang anyone?)
> * When an external changes happen to a larger codebase, NB takes up to a
> minute or two to cope with it and reopen everything or whatever it does. *
> Those little mising features everyone speaks about are everywhere from
> lacking colors in maven terminal output to javadoc popups not parsing html.
>
> I use Netbeans at work for regular development. The amount of exceptions I
> receive from the IDE varies from 3 - 12 every day.
> There's a plethora of visual glitches and errors. Sometimes it even likes
> to crash.
> Is the exception reporter tool still being used by the devs? Or should
> everything be reported via a ticket manually.
>
> > Instead, start a new mail thread with a specific missing feature,
>
> something
>
> > small -- and let's discuss that feature via a mail thread, first. Then, at
> > some point in the discussion, someone will say, let's create an issue
> > around this feature, now that we've discussed it, and someone else will
> > say, hey I think I know how to fix that, let me try and then I'll send a
> > pull request for others to review.
>
> I really do not think a mail thread for each little change is a good idea.
> Just because of the sheer amount of bugs and features.
>
> Martin
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Martin Dindoffer <md...@gmail.com>.
> For the specific issue you mention -- would this help:
> https://jaxenter.com/netbeans/keep-netbeans-nimble-with-
maven-remote-search
> I.e., if this were to be integrated into Apache NetBeans, I'm sure Emilian
> would be interested in doing that, would that solve the problem?
I will try that and report later if it helps, thanks Geertjan.
Martin
2017-10-13 12:59 GMT+02:00 Neil C Smith <ne...@googlemail.com>:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 11:00 AM Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think it would be great to have Darcula be one of the standard look and
> > feels in NetBeans, have contacted the plugin author about this, though
> also
> > probably there'll be licensing concerns and other issues since this comes
> > from a look and feel created at JetBrains.
> >
>
> The Darcula LAF is Apache licensed [1]. In fact, if anything our license
> change makes things better as the current NB plugin has more licensing
> issues as it mixes code from NetBeans and from the original LAF.
>
> For that matter, the whole core of Intellij is also Apache licensed [2] -
> one thing I'm hoping is that with our licensing change there might be some
> scope for useful collaboration on some things. In particular, it's no
> secret I think JavaFX is a dead-end. I'm not sure I foresee a time when
> either project moves UI to JavaFX - maybe I'm wrong. In the meantime,
> while we're both using a UI toolkit that is semi-deprecated, maybe there is
> useful collaboration to be done around Swing?
>
> Interestingly, given all the work / posts I've done around dark custom
> themes, and that I use a fork of Darcula for the Praxis LIVE UI, my
> NetBeans install proudly displays stock Nimbus on all 3 OS, and has done
> for years! ;-)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> [1] - https://github.com/bulenkov/Darcula
> [2] - https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community
> --
> Neil C Smith
> Artist & Technologist
> www.neilcsmith.net
>
> Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org>.
On Oct 13, 2017 05:59, "Neil C Smith" <ne...@googlemail.com> wrote:
In particular, it's no
secret I think JavaFX is a dead-end. I'm not sure I foresee a time when
either project moves UI to JavaFX - maybe I'm wrong.
I have been pondering this as well, but I think that is for old projects
like both IntelliJ and NB, but views in them, sounds very reasonable to me.
It may be possible over time if we focus on a base platform set of changes
while supporting Swing too, but not sure it would be worth changing the IDE
itself over.
In the meantime,
while we're both using a UI toolkit that is semi-deprecated, maybe there is
useful collaboration to be done around Swing?
Yes; agree! I have also mentioned this in the NB community. I think we need
to contribute to Swing at OpenJDK. It seems more logical than not to me.
Thanks
Wade
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@googlemail.com>.
Hi,
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 11:00 AM Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I think it would be great to have Darcula be one of the standard look and
> feels in NetBeans, have contacted the plugin author about this, though also
> probably there'll be licensing concerns and other issues since this comes
> from a look and feel created at JetBrains.
>
The Darcula LAF is Apache licensed [1]. In fact, if anything our license
change makes things better as the current NB plugin has more licensing
issues as it mixes code from NetBeans and from the original LAF.
For that matter, the whole core of Intellij is also Apache licensed [2] -
one thing I'm hoping is that with our licensing change there might be some
scope for useful collaboration on some things. In particular, it's no
secret I think JavaFX is a dead-end. I'm not sure I foresee a time when
either project moves UI to JavaFX - maybe I'm wrong. In the meantime,
while we're both using a UI toolkit that is semi-deprecated, maybe there is
useful collaboration to be done around Swing?
Interestingly, given all the work / posts I've done around dark custom
themes, and that I use a fork of Darcula for the Praxis LIVE UI, my
NetBeans install proudly displays stock Nimbus on all 3 OS, and has done
for years! ;-)
Best wishes,
Neil
[1] - https://github.com/bulenkov/Darcula
[2] - https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community
--
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net
Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@googlemail.com>.
Hi,
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:35 PM Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> We could move all issues over.
>
> Many of the issues are old or out of date or irrelevant, i.e., for features
> that are no longer there, etc. It would be a massive task for someone to,
> once the issues are moved, evaluate all of them.
>
>
Do we have to take an all or nothing approach? What about auto-closing
everything before a certain date (~6 months?) / milestone (8.2?) with a
message to re-report in Apache, but copying forward the more recent open
stuff for evaluation?
Best wishes,
Neil
--
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net
Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Martin Dindoffer <md...@gmail.com>.
> We could back up the Bugzilla issues somewhere and refer to them or link
to
> them as needed in Apache NetBeans JIRA.
This could be good enough.
But what is going to happen with the exception reporter tool? Will it be
linked to Jira for automatic ticket creation? Will apache host the
statistics/exceptions tracker DB ?
In other words, what happens with stuff like this:
http://statistics.netbeans.org/analytics/detail.do?id=228820 ?
Martin
2017-10-13 13:55 GMT+02:00 Cezariusz Marek <ce...@comarch.pl>:
> I think it would be way more work to copy all valid issues by hand than
> just import all *open* issues from Bugzilla to JIRA and evaluate them
> later. Moving manually will probably lose votes, comments, and maybe other
> valuable information.
>
> --
> Cezariusz Marek
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geertjan Wielenga [mailto:geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 1:36 PM
> To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: NetBeans 9 release date
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > BTW, will all the issues at netbeans.org be migrated to JIRA?
> >
>
> There are various schools of thought on this question.
>
> We could move all issues over.
>
> Many of the issues are old or out of date or irrelevant, i.e., for
> features that are no longer there, etc. It would be a massive task for
> someone to, once the issues are moved, evaluate all of them.
>
> It's certainly doable.
>
> A different approach is to create issues from scratch, i.e., the issues we
> create in Apache NetBeans JIRA from scratch will be issues that the Apache
> NetBeans community cares about, versus heaps of issues in the Oracle
> NetBeans Bugzilla that maybe no one in Apache NetBeans will be concerned
> about but that would need to be evaluated anyway if we were to migrate
> everything over to Apache NetBeans JIRA.
>
> We could back up the Bugzilla issues somewhere and refer to them or link
> to them as needed in Apache NetBeans JIRA.
>
> Anyway, multiple approaches and if we can't agree on a specific way
> forward we could vote on it.
>
> Gj
>
>
RE: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Cezariusz Marek <ce...@comarch.pl>.
I think it would be way more work to copy all valid issues by hand than just import all *open* issues from Bugzilla to JIRA and evaluate them later. Moving manually will probably lose votes, comments, and maybe other valuable information.
--
Cezariusz Marek
-----Original Message-----
From: Geertjan Wielenga [mailto:geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 1:36 PM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: NetBeans 9 release date
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net> wrote:
>
> BTW, will all the issues at netbeans.org be migrated to JIRA?
>
There are various schools of thought on this question.
We could move all issues over.
Many of the issues are old or out of date or irrelevant, i.e., for features that are no longer there, etc. It would be a massive task for someone to, once the issues are moved, evaluate all of them.
It's certainly doable.
A different approach is to create issues from scratch, i.e., the issues we create in Apache NetBeans JIRA from scratch will be issues that the Apache NetBeans community cares about, versus heaps of issues in the Oracle NetBeans Bugzilla that maybe no one in Apache NetBeans will be concerned about but that would need to be evaluated anyway if we were to migrate everything over to Apache NetBeans JIRA.
We could back up the Bugzilla issues somewhere and refer to them or link to them as needed in Apache NetBeans JIRA.
Anyway, multiple approaches and if we can't agree on a specific way forward we could vote on it.
Gj
Re: Idiots guy to making a change for a module code change
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
OK, I have taken the 'performance' module.
Gj
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 4:34 PM, mark stephens <
markstephens@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
>
>
> > On 31 Oct 2017, at 14:41, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > No worries at all!
> >
> > So, can we take your name off and have someone else do those assigned to
> > you?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Gj
>
> Yes please.
>
> MArk
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:36 PM, mark stephens <
> > markstephens@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 31 Oct 2017, at 12:56, Geertjan Wielenga <
> >> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Mark,
> >>>
> >>> If you don't have the bandwidth for reviewing the module, please let us
> >>> know, so we can complete this one.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Gj
> >>
> >> I did not have time to complete. It just needs the header file adding to
> >> the zipped dir in test_docs.
> >>
> >> Apologies for holding up the process.
> >>
> >> MArk
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 1:11 PM, mark stephens <
> >>> markstephens@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Thank-you. Just what I was looking for….
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> MArk
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 27 Oct 2017, at 11:20, Eric Barboni <Er...@irit.fr> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>> WIP for an idiot guide https://cwiki.apache.org/
> >>>> confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=74681408
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards
> >>>>> Eric (less idiot but still not fluent :^p )
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Message d'origine-----
> >>>>> De : Geertjan Wielenga [mailto:geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com]
> >>>>> Envoyé : vendredi 27 octobre 2017 12:12
> >>>>> À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>>>> Objet : Re: Idiots guy to making a change for a module code change
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you commit changes to the same branch in your fork, that should
> work
> >>>> fine.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Gj
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:09 PM, mark stephens <
> >>>> markstephens@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> In reviewing the modules, I have one which needs a change (adding a
> >>>>>> header). Is there an idiots guide so I can follow the steps to
> >>>>>> submitting a change for the first time.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Kind Regards,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> MArk
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
>
>
Re: Idiots guy to making a change for a module code change
Posted by mark stephens <ma...@idrsolutions.com>.
> On 31 Oct 2017, at 14:41, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> No worries at all!
>
> So, can we take your name off and have someone else do those assigned to
> you?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj
Yes please.
MArk
>
> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:36 PM, mark stephens <
> markstephens@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>> On 31 Oct 2017, at 12:56, Geertjan Wielenga <
>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Mark,
>>>
>>> If you don't have the bandwidth for reviewing the module, please let us
>>> know, so we can complete this one.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Gj
>>
>> I did not have time to complete. It just needs the header file adding to
>> the zipped dir in test_docs.
>>
>> Apologies for holding up the process.
>>
>> MArk
>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 1:11 PM, mark stephens <
>>> markstephens@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank-you. Just what I was looking for….
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> MArk
>>>>
>>>>> On 27 Oct 2017, at 11:20, Eric Barboni <Er...@irit.fr> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> WIP for an idiot guide https://cwiki.apache.org/
>>>> confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=74681408
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Eric (less idiot but still not fluent :^p )
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Message d'origine-----
>>>>> De : Geertjan Wielenga [mailto:geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com]
>>>>> Envoyé : vendredi 27 octobre 2017 12:12
>>>>> À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>>>> Objet : Re: Idiots guy to making a change for a module code change
>>>>>
>>>>> If you commit changes to the same branch in your fork, that should work
>>>> fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gj
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:09 PM, mark stephens <
>>>> markstephens@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In reviewing the modules, I have one which needs a change (adding a
>>>>>> header). Is there an idiots guide so I can follow the steps to
>>>>>> submitting a change for the first time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MArk
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
Re: Idiots guy to making a change for a module code change
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
No worries at all!
So, can we take your name off and have someone else do those assigned to
you?
Thanks,
Gj
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:36 PM, mark stephens <
markstephens@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
>
>
> > On 31 Oct 2017, at 12:56, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mark,
> >
> > If you don't have the bandwidth for reviewing the module, please let us
> > know, so we can complete this one.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Gj
>
> I did not have time to complete. It just needs the header file adding to
> the zipped dir in test_docs.
>
> Apologies for holding up the process.
>
> MArk
>
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 1:11 PM, mark stephens <
> > markstephens@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Thank-you. Just what I was looking for….
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> MArk
> >>
> >>> On 27 Oct 2017, at 11:20, Eric Barboni <Er...@irit.fr> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>> WIP for an idiot guide https://cwiki.apache.org/
> >> confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=74681408
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> Eric (less idiot but still not fluent :^p )
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Message d'origine-----
> >>> De : Geertjan Wielenga [mailto:geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com]
> >>> Envoyé : vendredi 27 octobre 2017 12:12
> >>> À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>> Objet : Re: Idiots guy to making a change for a module code change
> >>>
> >>> If you commit changes to the same branch in your fork, that should work
> >> fine.
> >>>
> >>> Gj
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:09 PM, mark stephens <
> >> markstephens@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In reviewing the modules, I have one which needs a change (adding a
> >>>> header). Is there an idiots guide so I can follow the steps to
> >>>> submitting a change for the first time.
> >>>>
> >>>> Kind Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> MArk
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>
>
Re: Idiots guy to making a change for a module code change
Posted by mark stephens <ma...@idrsolutions.com>.
> On 31 Oct 2017, at 12:56, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> If you don't have the bandwidth for reviewing the module, please let us
> know, so we can complete this one.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj
I did not have time to complete. It just needs the header file adding to the zipped dir in test_docs.
Apologies for holding up the process.
MArk
>
> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 1:11 PM, mark stephens <
> markstephens@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
>
>> Thank-you. Just what I was looking for….
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> MArk
>>
>>> On 27 Oct 2017, at 11:20, Eric Barboni <Er...@irit.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> WIP for an idiot guide https://cwiki.apache.org/
>> confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=74681408
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Eric (less idiot but still not fluent :^p )
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Message d'origine-----
>>> De : Geertjan Wielenga [mailto:geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com]
>>> Envoyé : vendredi 27 octobre 2017 12:12
>>> À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>> Objet : Re: Idiots guy to making a change for a module code change
>>>
>>> If you commit changes to the same branch in your fork, that should work
>> fine.
>>>
>>> Gj
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:09 PM, mark stephens <
>> markstephens@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In reviewing the modules, I have one which needs a change (adding a
>>>> header). Is there an idiots guide so I can follow the steps to
>>>> submitting a change for the first time.
>>>>
>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>>
>>>> MArk
>>>
>>
>>
Re: Idiots guy to making a change for a module code change
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Hi Mark,
If you don't have the bandwidth for reviewing the module, please let us
know, so we can complete this one.
Thanks,
Gj
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 1:11 PM, mark stephens <
markstephens@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
> Thank-you. Just what I was looking for….
>
> Regards,
>
> MArk
>
> > On 27 Oct 2017, at 11:20, Eric Barboni <Er...@irit.fr> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > WIP for an idiot guide https://cwiki.apache.org/
> confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=74681408
> >
> > Regards
> > Eric (less idiot but still not fluent :^p )
> >
> >
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Geertjan Wielenga [mailto:geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com]
> > Envoyé : vendredi 27 octobre 2017 12:12
> > À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > Objet : Re: Idiots guy to making a change for a module code change
> >
> > If you commit changes to the same branch in your fork, that should work
> fine.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:09 PM, mark stephens <
> markstephens@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In reviewing the modules, I have one which needs a change (adding a
> >> header). Is there an idiots guide so I can follow the steps to
> >> submitting a change for the first time.
> >>
> >> Kind Regards,
> >>
> >> MArk
> >
>
>
Re: Idiots guy to making a change for a module code change
Posted by mark stephens <ma...@idrsolutions.com>.
Thank-you. Just what I was looking for….
Regards,
MArk
> On 27 Oct 2017, at 11:20, Eric Barboni <Er...@irit.fr> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> WIP for an idiot guide https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=74681408
>
> Regards
> Eric (less idiot but still not fluent :^p )
>
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Geertjan Wielenga [mailto:geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com]
> Envoyé : vendredi 27 octobre 2017 12:12
> À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Objet : Re: Idiots guy to making a change for a module code change
>
> If you commit changes to the same branch in your fork, that should work fine.
>
> Gj
>
> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:09 PM, mark stephens < markstephens@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
>
>> In reviewing the modules, I have one which needs a change (adding a
>> header). Is there an idiots guide so I can follow the steps to
>> submitting a change for the first time.
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>>
>> MArk
>
RE: Idiots guy to making a change for a module code change
Posted by Eric Barboni <Er...@irit.fr>.
Hi,
WIP for an idiot guide https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=74681408
Regards
Eric (less idiot but still not fluent :^p )
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Geertjan Wielenga [mailto:geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com]
Envoyé : vendredi 27 octobre 2017 12:12
À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Objet : Re: Idiots guy to making a change for a module code change
If you commit changes to the same branch in your fork, that should work fine.
Gj
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:09 PM, mark stephens < markstephens@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
> In reviewing the modules, I have one which needs a change (adding a
> header). Is there an idiots guide so I can follow the steps to
> submitting a change for the first time.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> MArk
Re: Idiots guy to making a change for a module code change
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
If you commit changes to the same branch in your fork, that should work
fine.
Gj
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:09 PM, mark stephens <
markstephens@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
> In reviewing the modules, I have one which needs a change (adding a
> header). Is there an idiots guide so I can follow the steps to submitting a
> change for the first time.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> MArk
Idiots guy to making a change for a module code change
Posted by mark stephens <ma...@idrsolutions.com>.
In reviewing the modules, I have one which needs a change (adding a header). Is there an idiots guide so I can follow the steps to submitting a change for the first time.
Kind Regards,
MArk
Re: Request for clarification on review process on NetBeans with pngs
and other odd files found
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
That's an ArgoUML file most likely. Don't unzip and attach headers to
it. We wouldn't do the same for .odt files, no? (which are also zip
files)
--emi
On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 5:12 PM, mark stephens
<ma...@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
>
>
>> On 13 Oct 2017, at 15:46, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> - Just ignore image files (png/jpg/gif).
>> - Add a comment to the xml files (you can copy it from nproject/project.xml).
>>
>> Greetings & thanks,
>> Antonio
>
> It is actually a zip file (TwoWaySupport.zargo) containing some xml and pgml files in doc-files. Should this be deleted or unzipped and rezipped with headers attached?
>
> MArk
>>
>>
>>> El 13 oct 2017, a las 16:15, mark stephens <ma...@idrsolutions.com> escribió:
>>>
>>> I have reviewed my first module (performance), and found some pngs and xml files in a package without headers in src/threaddemo/util/doc-files
>>>
>>> What is the correct way to handle these?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> MArk
>>
>
Re: Request for clarification on review process on NetBeans with pngs
and other odd files found
Posted by mark stephens <ma...@idrsolutions.com>.
> On 13 Oct 2017, at 15:46, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> - Just ignore image files (png/jpg/gif).
> - Add a comment to the xml files (you can copy it from nproject/project.xml).
>
> Greetings & thanks,
> Antonio
It is actually a zip file (TwoWaySupport.zargo) containing some xml and pgml files in doc-files. Should this be deleted or unzipped and rezipped with headers attached?
MArk
>
>
>> El 13 oct 2017, a las 16:15, mark stephens <ma...@idrsolutions.com> escribió:
>>
>> I have reviewed my first module (performance), and found some pngs and xml files in a package without headers in src/threaddemo/util/doc-files
>>
>> What is the correct way to handle these?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> MArk
>
Re: Request for clarification on review process on NetBeans with pngs
and other odd files found
Posted by Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net>.
Hi,
- Just ignore image files (png/jpg/gif).
- Add a comment to the xml files (you can copy it from nproject/project.xml).
Greetings & thanks,
Antonio
> El 13 oct 2017, a las 16:15, mark stephens <ma...@idrsolutions.com> escribió:
>
> I have reviewed my first module (performance), and found some pngs and xml files in a package without headers in src/threaddemo/util/doc-files
>
> What is the correct way to handle these?
>
> Regards,
>
> MArk
Request for clarification on review process on NetBeans with pngs and
other odd files found
Posted by mark stephens <ma...@idrsolutions.com>.
I have reviewed my first module (performance), and found some pngs and xml files in a package without headers in src/threaddemo/util/doc-files
What is the correct way to handle these?
Regards,
MArk
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Martin Dindoffer <md...@gmail.com>.
Yeah a notification would be great.
Thanks Emilian
Martin
2017-10-13 16:15 GMT+02:00 Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>:
> I'll look into caching and push an update to the plugin, hopefully
> this month. Should I ping you when I have new binaries?
>
> I assume it might not be only about the size, but about the sudden
> burst of requests during the initial load.
>
> --emi
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Martin Dindoffer <md...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > @Emilian Bold - Well I am working on a quite large multimodule project.
> > So that could be it. The pom file I've been working on during the
> > exceptions was quite small with only a few dependencies.
> > However, it has a few "type:pom,scope:import" dependencies too, so that
> may
> > inflate the number of requests, don't know.
> >
> > Martin
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
I'll look into caching and push an update to the plugin, hopefully
this month. Should I ping you when I have new binaries?
I assume it might not be only about the size, but about the sudden
burst of requests during the initial load.
--emi
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Martin Dindoffer <md...@gmail.com> wrote:
> @Emilian Bold - Well I am working on a quite large multimodule project.
> So that could be it. The pom file I've been working on during the
> exceptions was quite small with only a few dependencies.
> However, it has a few "type:pom,scope:import" dependencies too, so that may
> inflate the number of requests, don't know.
>
> Martin
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Martin Dindoffer <md...@gmail.com>.
@Emilian Bold - Well I am working on a quite large multimodule project.
So that could be it. The pom file I've been working on during the
exceptions was quite small with only a few dependencies.
However, it has a few "type:pom,scope:import" dependencies too, so that may
inflate the number of requests, don't know.
Martin
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
@Martin Dindoffer: I'm the author of that plugin. My guess is you have
been hitting search.maven.org too often and they are rate limiting
you. Do you have lots and lots of dependencies or some other reason
the plugin could be queries a lot?
One thing I'm not doing in the plugin is caching. I didn't need it for
small projects but it might add up for larger (or different) projects
since I wouldn't have to query search.maven.org so often.
--emi
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 4:33 PM, Martin Dindoffer <md...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > For the specific issue you mention -- would this help:
>> > https://jaxenter.com/netbeans/keep-netbeans-nimble-with-mave
> n-remote-search
>> > I.e., if this were to be integrated into Apache NetBeans, I'm sure
> Emilian
>> > would be interested in doing that, would that solve the problem?
>>
>> I will try that and report later if it helps, thanks Geertjan.
>
> Well the plugin seems to work. At least it seems to connect to central for
> artifacts' version autocomplete.
> But also gives me even more exceptions (https://pastebin.com/mw7jzrNw) than
> I already have to deal with, so I think I'll uninstall it for now.
>
> Martin
>
> 2017-10-13 14:42 GMT+02:00 Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>:
>
>> I started to migrate my Bugs to Apache. They are still valid over the
>> years. About 180 or so (more/less). So to migrate others will take users
>> care that NetBeans moves to Apache and they will see it in JIRA or
>> wherever. It will be good, if this could Combine with github issue tracker,
>> because not everyone has an Apache account or want one, but most of the
>> developers, thats my opinion, have a github account and want to create
>> tickets there, this is more transparent for all of us.
>>
>> I have things at my daily work, which are pain in the asses, like the
>> update functionality of NPM packages per Project, or the search to adding a
>> new one, or the biggesete Problem is to have multiple files which Points to
>> different Project types in one Project. Which Project will win? I had a
>> html5 project with a package json, now we added a pom file to it because we
>> needed it for Nexus and now it is a maven Project…so my stuff like build
>> theHTML5 project, run grunt or gulp or npm or the other Options made only
>> for the HTML5 project, doesn’t work anymore.
>>
>> And and and. Had long discussions about that but in the and, if we want to
>> let the community be a part of it, we should spread it more widely and not
>> only over Mailing lists. Often People uses what is new and fancy, yeah that
>> is not the Apache way but we should not force that People that they Need
>> this stuff.
>>
>> Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
>>
>> Von: Geertjan Wielenga
>> Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Oktober 2017 13:35
>> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> Betreff: Re: NetBeans 9 release date
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > BTW, will all the issues at netbeans.org be migrated to JIRA?
>> >
>>
>> There are various schools of thought on this question.
>>
>> We could move all issues over.
>>
>> Many of the issues are old or out of date or irrelevant, i.e., for features
>> that are no longer there, etc. It would be a massive task for someone to,
>> once the issues are moved, evaluate all of them.
>>
>> It's certainly doable.
>>
>> A different approach is to create issues from scratch, i.e., the issues we
>> create in Apache NetBeans JIRA from scratch will be issues that the Apache
>> NetBeans community cares about, versus heaps of issues in the Oracle
>> NetBeans Bugzilla that maybe no one in Apache NetBeans will be concerned
>> about but that would need to be evaluated anyway if we were to migrate
>> everything over to Apache NetBeans JIRA.
>>
>> We could back up the Bugzilla issues somewhere and refer to them or link to
>> them as needed in Apache NetBeans JIRA.
>>
>> Anyway, multiple approaches and if we can't agree on a specific way forward
>> we could vote on it.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Martin Dindoffer <md...@gmail.com>.
> > For the specific issue you mention -- would this help:
> > https://jaxenter.com/netbeans/keep-netbeans-nimble-with-mave
n-remote-search
> > I.e., if this were to be integrated into Apache NetBeans, I'm sure
Emilian
> > would be interested in doing that, would that solve the problem?
>
> I will try that and report later if it helps, thanks Geertjan.
Well the plugin seems to work. At least it seems to connect to central for
artifacts' version autocomplete.
But also gives me even more exceptions (https://pastebin.com/mw7jzrNw) than
I already have to deal with, so I think I'll uninstall it for now.
Martin
2017-10-13 14:42 GMT+02:00 Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>:
> I started to migrate my Bugs to Apache. They are still valid over the
> years. About 180 or so (more/less). So to migrate others will take users
> care that NetBeans moves to Apache and they will see it in JIRA or
> wherever. It will be good, if this could Combine with github issue tracker,
> because not everyone has an Apache account or want one, but most of the
> developers, thats my opinion, have a github account and want to create
> tickets there, this is more transparent for all of us.
>
> I have things at my daily work, which are pain in the asses, like the
> update functionality of NPM packages per Project, or the search to adding a
> new one, or the biggesete Problem is to have multiple files which Points to
> different Project types in one Project. Which Project will win? I had a
> html5 project with a package json, now we added a pom file to it because we
> needed it for Nexus and now it is a maven Project…so my stuff like build
> theHTML5 project, run grunt or gulp or npm or the other Options made only
> for the HTML5 project, doesn’t work anymore.
>
> And and and. Had long discussions about that but in the and, if we want to
> let the community be a part of it, we should spread it more widely and not
> only over Mailing lists. Often People uses what is new and fancy, yeah that
> is not the Apache way but we should not force that People that they Need
> this stuff.
>
> Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
>
> Von: Geertjan Wielenga
> Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Oktober 2017 13:35
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: NetBeans 9 release date
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > BTW, will all the issues at netbeans.org be migrated to JIRA?
> >
>
> There are various schools of thought on this question.
>
> We could move all issues over.
>
> Many of the issues are old or out of date or irrelevant, i.e., for features
> that are no longer there, etc. It would be a massive task for someone to,
> once the issues are moved, evaluate all of them.
>
> It's certainly doable.
>
> A different approach is to create issues from scratch, i.e., the issues we
> create in Apache NetBeans JIRA from scratch will be issues that the Apache
> NetBeans community cares about, versus heaps of issues in the Oracle
> NetBeans Bugzilla that maybe no one in Apache NetBeans will be concerned
> about but that would need to be evaluated anyway if we were to migrate
> everything over to Apache NetBeans JIRA.
>
> We could back up the Bugzilla issues somewhere and refer to them or link to
> them as needed in Apache NetBeans JIRA.
>
> Anyway, multiple approaches and if we can't agree on a specific way forward
> we could vote on it.
>
> Gj
>
>
AW: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
I started to migrate my Bugs to Apache. They are still valid over the years. About 180 or so (more/less). So to migrate others will take users care that NetBeans moves to Apache and they will see it in JIRA or wherever. It will be good, if this could Combine with github issue tracker, because not everyone has an Apache account or want one, but most of the developers, thats my opinion, have a github account and want to create tickets there, this is more transparent for all of us.
I have things at my daily work, which are pain in the asses, like the update functionality of NPM packages per Project, or the search to adding a new one, or the biggesete Problem is to have multiple files which Points to different Project types in one Project. Which Project will win? I had a html5 project with a package json, now we added a pom file to it because we needed it for Nexus and now it is a maven Project…so my stuff like build theHTML5 project, run grunt or gulp or npm or the other Options made only for the HTML5 project, doesn’t work anymore.
And and and. Had long discussions about that but in the and, if we want to let the community be a part of it, we should spread it more widely and not only over Mailing lists. Often People uses what is new and fancy, yeah that is not the Apache way but we should not force that People that they Need this stuff.
Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Oktober 2017 13:35
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans 9 release date
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net> wrote:
>
> BTW, will all the issues at netbeans.org be migrated to JIRA?
>
There are various schools of thought on this question.
We could move all issues over.
Many of the issues are old or out of date or irrelevant, i.e., for features
that are no longer there, etc. It would be a massive task for someone to,
once the issues are moved, evaluate all of them.
It's certainly doable.
A different approach is to create issues from scratch, i.e., the issues we
create in Apache NetBeans JIRA from scratch will be issues that the Apache
NetBeans community cares about, versus heaps of issues in the Oracle
NetBeans Bugzilla that maybe no one in Apache NetBeans will be concerned
about but that would need to be evaluated anyway if we were to migrate
everything over to Apache NetBeans JIRA.
We could back up the Bugzilla issues somewhere and refer to them or link to
them as needed in Apache NetBeans JIRA.
Anyway, multiple approaches and if we can't agree on a specific way forward
we could vote on it.
Gj
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net> wrote:
>
> BTW, will all the issues at netbeans.org be migrated to JIRA?
>
There are various schools of thought on this question.
We could move all issues over.
Many of the issues are old or out of date or irrelevant, i.e., for features
that are no longer there, etc. It would be a massive task for someone to,
once the issues are moved, evaluate all of them.
It's certainly doable.
A different approach is to create issues from scratch, i.e., the issues we
create in Apache NetBeans JIRA from scratch will be issues that the Apache
NetBeans community cares about, versus heaps of issues in the Oracle
NetBeans Bugzilla that maybe no one in Apache NetBeans will be concerned
about but that would need to be evaluated anyway if we were to migrate
everything over to Apache NetBeans JIRA.
We could back up the Bugzilla issues somewhere and refer to them or link to
them as needed in Apache NetBeans JIRA.
Anyway, multiple approaches and if we can't agree on a specific way forward
we could vote on it.
Gj
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net>.
> El 13 oct 2017, a las 12:41, Martin Dindoffer <md...@gmail.com> escribió:
>
>> What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things, for
>> others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you can
>> play in this project.
>
> Hi there, fellow Java developer here.
Hi Martin, thanks for all that feedback.
I think we should be adding this to the bug tracking system. This is valuable feedback from a daily user that, despite of daily exceptions and periodic hangs, keeps on using the IDE at work.
I was wondering if JIRA is here to stay, if so we should think how well it fits the project (priorities, votes, components, etc.) and if it does fit then start writing down all this requests for features.
BTW, will all the issues at netbeans.org be migrated to JIRA?
Cheers,
Antonio
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:41 PM, Martin Dindoffer <md...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> * Maven integration is bad. Compared to competition it is slow, the
> periodic indexing is painful. The dependency graph generator is unusable on
> large projects.
>
That's an interesting observation because for most people a key reason to
switch to NetBeans is the Maven support.
I.e., any folder with a POM is automatically a Maven project and NetBeans
parses the POM and builds the project structure in NetBeans from that,
among other nice integrations between Maven and NetBeans.
For the specific issue you mention -- would this help:
https://jaxenter.com/netbeans/keep-netbeans-nimble-with-maven-remote-search
I.e., if this were to be integrated into Apache NetBeans, I'm sure Emilian
would be interested in doing that, would that solve the problem?
Gj
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Martin Dindoffer <md...@gmail.com>.
> What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things, for
> others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you can
> play in this project.
Hi there, fellow Java developer here.
The thing is, as others have pointed out, Netbeans is quite behind other
major IDEs and the list of the small things would be really huge.
Also, you already have a list. A bug list. And a big one. Do you think
those hundreds of bugs are not relevant anymore because they are old?
Absolutely not.
If you'd like to know about some specific issues I'm dealing with:
* Maven integration is bad. Compared to competition it is slow, the
periodic indexing is painful. The dependency graph generator is unusable on
large projects.
* JavaFX support is almost non-existent.
* The Java refactorings lack many of the features intellij has.
* Some lesser known languages do not have any plugin/support. (Yang anyone?)
* When an external changes happen to a larger codebase, NB takes up to a
minute or two to cope with it and reopen everything or whatever it does.
* Those little mising features everyone speaks about are everywhere from
lacking colors in maven terminal output to javadoc popups not parsing html.
I use Netbeans at work for regular development. The amount of exceptions I
receive from the IDE varies from 3 - 12 every day.
There's a plethora of visual glitches and errors. Sometimes it even likes
to crash.
Is the exception reporter tool still being used by the devs? Or should
everything be reported via a ticket manually.
> Instead, start a new mail thread with a specific missing feature,
something
> small -- and let's discuss that feature via a mail thread, first. Then, at
> some point in the discussion, someone will say, let's create an issue
> around this feature, now that we've discussed it, and someone else will
> say, hey I think I know how to fix that, let me try and then I'll send a
> pull request for others to review.
I really do not think a mail thread for each little change is a good idea.
Just because of the sheer amount of bugs and features.
Martin
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Peter Steele <st...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Have you tried this plugin:
> >plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/62424/darcula-laf-for-netbeans
> >
> >Would be great to have that as part of Apache NetBeans.
>
> I use this, it's definitely the best look and feel that you can choose
> from. But the font used is something that puts me off.
>
>
Then change the font, or mention this in the comments here
http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/62424/darcula-laf-for-netbeans, or
contribute to the project here https://github.com/Revivius/nb-darcula.
I think it would be great to have Darcula be one of the standard look and
feels in NetBeans, have contacted the plugin author about this, though also
probably there'll be licensing concerns and other issues since this comes
from a look and feel created at JetBrains.
Gj
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Peter Steele <st...@gmail.com>.
>Have you tried this plugin:
>plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/62424/darcula-laf-for-netbeans
>
>Would be great to have that as part of Apache NetBeans.
I use this, it's definitely the best look and feel that you can choose
from. But the font used is something that puts me off.
On 13 Oct 2017 10:18, "Geertjan Wielenga" <ge...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Peter Steele <st...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Apache integration should be very prominent on the main page, it
should
> link to all the relevant Apache pages and should ask for volunteers etc.
> The Apache wiki is ok, but most people know about netbeans.org.
>
> In terms of my comments on "modern" and small things. I can't think of too
> many specific things off hand but what I would say is
>
> - I think a subset of the modules you can download should become core
> - the look at feel of netbeans puts me off a bit, I like the intellij dark
> look and feel (the font is much nicer to work with)
>
Have you tried this plugin:
plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/62424/darcula-laf-for-netbeans
Would be great to have that as part of Apache NetBeans.
> - having moved over to gradle I find the gradle integration in netbeans
not
> as good good as it's competitors. I think netbeans should divorce the
build
> system from the project choice so I could (as a basic example) choose
maven
> html5 or gradle html5 or maven basic java as a project choice.
>
I think the Gradle plugin should be a standard part of Apache NetBeans,
though that is a decision that Attila Kelemen, the creator of the plugin,
needs to make:
https://github.com/kelemen/netbeans-gradle-project
> - android integration is important to me, would be good to have some
> standard support.
>
Yes, https://bitbucket.org/nbandroid/nbandroid/wiki/Installation is another
one that could be part of Apache NetBeans, depending on the developer who
created it, so that everyone can get involved in getting it to the next
level.
>
> Btw I like the fact netbeans has moved to Apache, netbeans has a lot going
> for it that is better than other ides. Hopefully the Apache integration
> will help it move quickly to a better place.
>
Yup.
> Step one though is making it clearer to users of netbeans that the
> integration is happening and progress is being made to get a new release
> out.
>
>
Well, step one was making sure we would succeed in getting the code out of
Oracle into Apache. That has recently succeeded, only over the past month
or so, with at least half more still to come.
So, we really needed there to be code in the Apache NetBeans Git repo
before we could start actively thinking about moving NetBeans users over to
Apache NetBeans.
Gj
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Peter Steele <st...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Apache integration should be very prominent on the main page, it should
> link to all the relevant Apache pages and should ask for volunteers etc.
> The Apache wiki is ok, but most people know about netbeans.org.
>
> In terms of my comments on "modern" and small things. I can't think of too
> many specific things off hand but what I would say is
>
> - I think a subset of the modules you can download should become core
> - the look at feel of netbeans puts me off a bit, I like the intellij dark
> look and feel (the font is much nicer to work with)
>
Have you tried this plugin:
plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/62424/darcula-laf-for-netbeans
Would be great to have that as part of Apache NetBeans.
> - having moved over to gradle I find the gradle integration in netbeans not
> as good good as it's competitors. I think netbeans should divorce the build
> system from the project choice so I could (as a basic example) choose maven
> html5 or gradle html5 or maven basic java as a project choice.
>
I think the Gradle plugin should be a standard part of Apache NetBeans,
though that is a decision that Attila Kelemen, the creator of the plugin,
needs to make:
https://github.com/kelemen/netbeans-gradle-project
> - android integration is important to me, would be good to have some
> standard support.
>
Yes, https://bitbucket.org/nbandroid/nbandroid/wiki/Installation is another
one that could be part of Apache NetBeans, depending on the developer who
created it, so that everyone can get involved in getting it to the next
level.
>
> Btw I like the fact netbeans has moved to Apache, netbeans has a lot going
> for it that is better than other ides. Hopefully the Apache integration
> will help it move quickly to a better place.
>
Yup.
> Step one though is making it clearer to users of netbeans that the
> integration is happening and progress is being made to get a new release
> out.
>
>
Well, step one was making sure we would succeed in getting the code out of
Oracle into Apache. That has recently succeeded, only over the past month
or so, with at least half more still to come.
So, we really needed there to be code in the Apache NetBeans Git repo
before we could start actively thinking about moving NetBeans users over to
Apache NetBeans.
Gj
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Antonio <an...@vieiro.net> wrote:
>
>
> On 13/10/17 10:49, Peter Steele wrote:
>
>> The Apache integration should be very prominent on the main page, it
>> should
>> link to all the relevant Apache pages and should ask for volunteers etc.
>> The Apache wiki is ok, but most people know about netbeans.org.
>>
>>
> Exactly. We should plan the announcement of Apache NetBeans very
> carefully. Some key messages I'd suggest: "We're kicking butt again", "Come
> and participate" and "How can we help you today?".
Note that, until very recently, though we have announced the move to Apache
all over the place, we -- at netbeans.org -- didn't yet want to make any
changes there since no actual code was yet in Apache NetBeans Git.
Since part of it is there now, since the past month or so, we should look
at this (aside from the task of moving it all to Apache and so on):
We now, since the last 5 minutes, have on the front page, i.e., netbeans.org,
the clear statement "NetBeans IDE is free, open source, and is moving to
Apache!".
Do you see it now, on netbeans.org, together with a link (when you move
over it and we had to make it white otherwise the blue of the link would
make it invisible against the background).
Should anything else be put there, happy to do anything to make it all
clearer, now that we have code in Apache NetBeans Git.
Gj
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Antonio <an...@vieiro.net>.
On 13/10/17 10:49, Peter Steele wrote:
> The Apache integration should be very prominent on the main page, it should
> link to all the relevant Apache pages and should ask for volunteers etc.
> The Apache wiki is ok, but most people know about netbeans.org.
>
Exactly. We should plan the announcement of Apache NetBeans very
carefully. Some key messages I'd suggest: "We're kicking butt again",
"Come and participate" and "How can we help you today?".
> In terms of my comments on "modern" and small things. I can't think of too
> many specific things off hand but what I would say is
>
> - I think a subset of the modules you can download should become core
> - the look at feel of netbeans puts me off a bit, I like the intellij dark
> look and feel (the font is much nicer to work with)
Good point as well. We can't launch NetBeans on Unixes without the
-J-Dsun.java2d.dpiaware=true and without using the GTK Look and Feel as
a default option. The Swing Look and Feel was good in the nineties.
> - having moved over to gradle I find the gradle integration in netbeans not
> as good good as it's competitors. I think netbeans should divorce the build
> system from the project choice so I could (as a basic example) choose maven
> html5 or gradle html5 or maven basic java as a project choice.
We should start adding feature requirements to JIRA.
> - android integration is important to me, would be good to have some
> standard support.
Android has been missing for ages. And Google is desperate looking for a
good Android IDE. Is there any funding here?
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Peter Steele <st...@gmail.com>.
The Apache integration should be very prominent on the main page, it should
link to all the relevant Apache pages and should ask for volunteers etc.
The Apache wiki is ok, but most people know about netbeans.org.
In terms of my comments on "modern" and small things. I can't think of too
many specific things off hand but what I would say is
- I think a subset of the modules you can download should become core
- the look at feel of netbeans puts me off a bit, I like the intellij dark
look and feel (the font is much nicer to work with)
- I don't like having to download and reinstall for each major version. I
should just be able to use the already good updater to do this.
- having moved over to gradle I find the gradle integration in netbeans not
as good good as it's competitors. I think netbeans should divorce the build
system from the project choice so I could (as a basic example) choose maven
html5 or gradle html5 or maven basic java as a project choice.
- android integration is important to me, would be good to have some
standard support.
Btw I like the fact netbeans has moved to Apache, netbeans has a lot going
for it that is better than other ides. Hopefully the Apache integration
will help it move quickly to a better place.
Step one though is making it clearer to users of netbeans that the
integration is happening and progress is being made to get a new release
out.
On 13 Oct 2017 09:00, "Geertjan Wielenga" <ge...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 6:08 AM, Peter Steele <st...@gmail.com> wrote:
> - netbeans.org is totally void of any Apache information, if you want more
> people involved then communication should be updated there.
>
Where exactly would you like to see information on netbeans.org re Apache?
I can see it already myself, it's been there for months -- but where would
you like to see it, where are you looking and not finding the information
about NetBeans being at Apache?
> - some sort of date or regularly updated checklist to show what needs to
be
> done before the next release is sorely being missed
>
Here it is:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/
List+of+Modules+to+Review
> - I am a big netbeans fan but moved over to the intellij community edition
> because I didn't see oracle really investing much in making netbeans
> "modern".
What do you mean by that? Modern in terms of user interface? Modern in
terms of features -- which features are needed to making NetBeans modern?
> I'd love to move back because I think as a community driven
> project it can bridge the difference in feature gaps that exist. I far
> prefer core netbeans as an ide to intellij or eclipse but it's the many
> small things that are missing that makes it hard to beat those other
> platforms in terms of every day usability.
>
What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things, for
others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you can
play in this project.
Thanks,
Gj
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 6:08 AM, Peter Steele <st...@gmail.com> wrote:
> - netbeans.org is totally void of any Apache information, if you want more
> people involved then communication should be updated there.
>
Where exactly would you like to see information on netbeans.org re Apache?
I can see it already myself, it's been there for months -- but where would
you like to see it, where are you looking and not finding the information
about NetBeans being at Apache?
> - some sort of date or regularly updated checklist to show what needs to be
> done before the next release is sorely being missed
>
Here it is:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/List+of+Modules+to+Review
> - I am a big netbeans fan but moved over to the intellij community edition
> because I didn't see oracle really investing much in making netbeans
> "modern".
What do you mean by that? Modern in terms of user interface? Modern in
terms of features -- which features are needed to making NetBeans modern?
> I'd love to move back because I think as a community driven
> project it can bridge the difference in feature gaps that exist. I far
> prefer core netbeans as an ide to intellij or eclipse but it's the many
> small things that are missing that makes it hard to beat those other
> platforms in terms of every day usability.
>
What are those small things? Providing a list of those small things, for
others to implement, is precisely the very significant role that you can
play in this project.
Thanks,
Gj
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Peter Steele <st...@gmail.com>.
As one of those "netbeans users" I would agree with both sides of what
people have been saying.
I joined this and the user mailing list to find out a bit more about what
is happening, I would love to contribute at some point but because of the
little time I can give currently I wanted to wait for the Apache migration
to stabilise first.
As a current neutral observer I would say a few things.
- netbeans.org is totally void of any Apache information, if you want more
people involved then communication should be updated there.
- without seeing the project updates here, it looks to be a "dead" project
to the outside world so again, communication is key. To be fair netbeans.org
was never really good at this either.
- some sort of date or regularly updated checklist to show what needs to be
done before the next release is sorely being missed
- I am a big netbeans fan but moved over to the intellij community edition
because I didn't see oracle really investing much in making netbeans
"modern". I'd love to move back because I think as a community driven
project it can bridge the difference in feature gaps that exist. I far
prefer core netbeans as an ide to intellij or eclipse but it's the many
small things that are missing that makes it hard to beat those other
platforms in terms of every day usability.
I'm definitely looking forward to the integration in to Apache to be more
complete and for the project to continue moving in a positive way forwards.
On 13 Oct 2017 02:15, "Javier Ortiz" <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
NetBeans is a huge scary code to most people including myself. Others just
don't feel or plain lack the skill/knowledge to help, or at least that's
what they feel.
Takes lots of time just to get used to the concepts, structure and
peculiarities of it.
As with many other open source tools I contribute to it comes down to need,
and effort needed.
If NetBeans was unique there would be more help since there were no other
options. But if your time is limited and not available or buggy on NetBeans
you just look around and there are other options.
Personally the open source project I got deeply evolved were unique in one
way or another or I created myself due to the same reason. That's why I
believe we don't see the other millions of users.
On Oct 12, 2017 6:26 PM, "Geertjan Wielenga" <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Agree completely. And note that the NetBeans Governance is everyone here
on
> the mailing list, i.e., we decide together what should be in a release of
> NetBeans.
>
> There's something in Apache called the PMC (
> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#what-is-a-pmc) which in its simplest
> form is everyone who is a committer of an Apache project.
>
> Together, the committers, in discussion with the community at large,
> decides what each release should consist of, its roadmap, etc.
>
> Gj
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > > El 12 oct 2017, a las 23:56, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>
> > escribió:
> > >
> > >> I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
> > NetBeans
> > > and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively
> > move
> > > away from.
> > >
> > > As a counterpart to this, I don't know where the millions of NetBeans
> > users
> > > are.
> >
> > Those millions of users are waiting for you to ask them what they want.
> > It’s exactly the same Emilian did with yameter.com a few days after the
> > release:
> >
> > https://twitter.com/emilianbold/status/916775452714336256
> >
> > Should NetBeans support Apache Spark? Tomcat? The Go programming
> language?
> > R? Whatever? Just find a big pool of developers and ask them what to do
> > next, what they need, what they want. There’s no Oracle direction now
(or
> > if there’s then it’s just a direction, not all direction), nobody is
> > deciding what the future will be. So the NetBeans CEO (CEOs) must start
> > asking customers what they want.
> >
> > Hint: Apache has a big pool of developers.
> > Hint 2: Ernie’s vi emulator should be included in NetBeans 9.
> >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:46 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> > > geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> We could then focus on releasing that -- i.e., the first release
would
> > >> consist of all the new JDK 9 features (Jigsaw, JShell, etc), together
> > with
> > >> then relicensed source code.
> >
> > There’re no Oracle deadlines now. So the NetBeans Governance (or
whatever
> > is called, why am I asking this? Not clear enough?) should set a roadmap
> > ASAP and start blogging about it in the net. Many users will appreciate
a
> > public roadmap. It gives us a sense of confidence on what to expect.
> >
> > And if this roadmap is decided by the NetBeans Governance _and_ the
> users,
> > the better.
> >
> > In fact a lack of roadmap can be seen as a competitive advantage, a
blank
> > sheet for users deciding the NetBeans future.
> >
> > >>
> > >> I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
> > NetBeans
> > >> and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively
> > move
> > >> away from.
> >
> > “Build it, and they will come”
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Antonio
> >
> >
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Javier Ortiz <ja...@gmail.com>.
NetBeans is a huge scary code to most people including myself. Others just
don't feel or plain lack the skill/knowledge to help, or at least that's
what they feel.
Takes lots of time just to get used to the concepts, structure and
peculiarities of it.
As with many other open source tools I contribute to it comes down to need,
and effort needed.
If NetBeans was unique there would be more help since there were no other
options. But if your time is limited and not available or buggy on NetBeans
you just look around and there are other options.
Personally the open source project I got deeply evolved were unique in one
way or another or I created myself due to the same reason. That's why I
believe we don't see the other millions of users.
On Oct 12, 2017 6:26 PM, "Geertjan Wielenga" <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Agree completely. And note that the NetBeans Governance is everyone here on
> the mailing list, i.e., we decide together what should be in a release of
> NetBeans.
>
> There's something in Apache called the PMC (
> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#what-is-a-pmc) which in its simplest
> form is everyone who is a committer of an Apache project.
>
> Together, the committers, in discussion with the community at large,
> decides what each release should consist of, its roadmap, etc.
>
> Gj
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > > El 12 oct 2017, a las 23:56, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>
> > escribió:
> > >
> > >> I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
> > NetBeans
> > > and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively
> > move
> > > away from.
> > >
> > > As a counterpart to this, I don't know where the millions of NetBeans
> > users
> > > are.
> >
> > Those millions of users are waiting for you to ask them what they want.
> > It’s exactly the same Emilian did with yameter.com a few days after the
> > release:
> >
> > https://twitter.com/emilianbold/status/916775452714336256
> >
> > Should NetBeans support Apache Spark? Tomcat? The Go programming
> language?
> > R? Whatever? Just find a big pool of developers and ask them what to do
> > next, what they need, what they want. There’s no Oracle direction now (or
> > if there’s then it’s just a direction, not all direction), nobody is
> > deciding what the future will be. So the NetBeans CEO (CEOs) must start
> > asking customers what they want.
> >
> > Hint: Apache has a big pool of developers.
> > Hint 2: Ernie’s vi emulator should be included in NetBeans 9.
> >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:46 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> > > geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> We could then focus on releasing that -- i.e., the first release would
> > >> consist of all the new JDK 9 features (Jigsaw, JShell, etc), together
> > with
> > >> then relicensed source code.
> >
> > There’re no Oracle deadlines now. So the NetBeans Governance (or whatever
> > is called, why am I asking this? Not clear enough?) should set a roadmap
> > ASAP and start blogging about it in the net. Many users will appreciate a
> > public roadmap. It gives us a sense of confidence on what to expect.
> >
> > And if this roadmap is decided by the NetBeans Governance _and_ the
> users,
> > the better.
> >
> > In fact a lack of roadmap can be seen as a competitive advantage, a blank
> > sheet for users deciding the NetBeans future.
> >
> > >>
> > >> I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
> > NetBeans
> > >> and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively
> > move
> > >> away from.
> >
> > “Build it, and they will come”
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Antonio
> >
> >
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Agree completely. And note that the NetBeans Governance is everyone here on
the mailing list, i.e., we decide together what should be in a release of
NetBeans.
There's something in Apache called the PMC (
http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#what-is-a-pmc) which in its simplest
form is everyone who is a committer of an Apache project.
Together, the committers, in discussion with the community at large,
decides what each release should consist of, its roadmap, etc.
Gj
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net> wrote:
>
> > El 12 oct 2017, a las 23:56, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>
> escribió:
> >
> >> I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
> NetBeans
> > and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively
> move
> > away from.
> >
> > As a counterpart to this, I don't know where the millions of NetBeans
> users
> > are.
>
> Those millions of users are waiting for you to ask them what they want.
> It’s exactly the same Emilian did with yameter.com a few days after the
> release:
>
> https://twitter.com/emilianbold/status/916775452714336256
>
> Should NetBeans support Apache Spark? Tomcat? The Go programming language?
> R? Whatever? Just find a big pool of developers and ask them what to do
> next, what they need, what they want. There’s no Oracle direction now (or
> if there’s then it’s just a direction, not all direction), nobody is
> deciding what the future will be. So the NetBeans CEO (CEOs) must start
> asking customers what they want.
>
> Hint: Apache has a big pool of developers.
> Hint 2: Ernie’s vi emulator should be included in NetBeans 9.
>
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:46 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> > geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> We could then focus on releasing that -- i.e., the first release would
> >> consist of all the new JDK 9 features (Jigsaw, JShell, etc), together
> with
> >> then relicensed source code.
>
> There’re no Oracle deadlines now. So the NetBeans Governance (or whatever
> is called, why am I asking this? Not clear enough?) should set a roadmap
> ASAP and start blogging about it in the net. Many users will appreciate a
> public roadmap. It gives us a sense of confidence on what to expect.
>
> And if this roadmap is decided by the NetBeans Governance _and_ the users,
> the better.
>
> In fact a lack of roadmap can be seen as a competitive advantage, a blank
> sheet for users deciding the NetBeans future.
>
> >>
> >> I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
> NetBeans
> >> and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively
> move
> >> away from.
>
> “Build it, and they will come”
>
> Cheers,
> Antonio
>
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
PS: See
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/on+top+of+NetBeans for
a list, this is the updated version, with more info being added, of
https://platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html.
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 11:09 AM, Antonio <an...@vieiro.net> wrote:
>
>
> On 13/10/17 09:49, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ...Should NetBeans support Apache Spark? Tomcat? The Go programming
>>> language? R? Whatever? Just find a big pool of developers and ask them
>>> what to do next, what they need, what they want...
>>>
>>
>> However I think NetBeans is more an end-user tool. I use it myself but
>> don't really care how it's built, and learning that would not help me
>> progress much in my careeer where I'm doing other things - with
>> similar technologies but other things.
>>
>
> It's important to know that the NetBeans user base is. Maybe we should
> start by defining that. I distinguish these two sets:
>
> - One part of the NetBeans user base is formed by (or was formed by) big
> companies and organizations such as NATO, The US Navy, the European Union,
> Boeing, NASA, ESA, UNESCO, and many other companies, big and small. See
> [1] for a list. These companies and organizations may be interested in some
> sort of support, or may provide funding through sponshorships, so that the
> project is kept alive and up to date with new platforms and technologies.
> By listening to these user base we may learn how to improve the platform
> and understand what their problems are (installers?, UI improvements?, geo
> and map support?). And they may even want to donate code they built over
> the years.
>
> - Another part of the NetBeans user base is formed by Java
> (C/C++/Ruby/PHP) developers that prefer to use NetBeans as their IDE.
> NetBeans is well positioned as an IDE for PHP and C/C++ in Unix
> environments. I don't know what funding could be in these, maybe
> crowfunding is an option, as you say. Another option (a difficult one) is
> forking commercial products that concentrate in specific areas/requirements
> (say an IDE for R projects?) and that is funded by subscriptions, much like
> IntelliJ is doing.
>
> [1] https://platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html
>
>
AW: AW: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
And I think this is a big Topic, the HTML, js community, because this is the fastests growing community with lots of new Frameworks etc.
Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
Von: Antonio
Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Oktober 2017 11:29
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: NetBeans 9 release date
On 13/10/17 11:24, Christian Lenz wrote:
> The best IDE for Android is coming from Google and called Android Studio, which is based on Intellij 😉. https://developer.android.com/studio/index.html I think they canceled the Support for the plugin for eclipse, for doing this.
Yes, I know, but "best IDE" should be "existing IDE". I mean, Android
Studio just sucks (with all respect due). I was wondering how much
Google is paying Intellij guys for doing this.
>
>
> Please don’t Forget all the webdevelopers like me, who are developing with AngularJS and Angular + TypeScript or React or Vue or whatever. Node, express Less, Sass, (Whish is not part of NetBeans, which is strange) and Scss (Which is part of NetBeans).
Agreed. That's a third user base.
Re: AW: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Antonio <an...@vieiro.net>.
On 13/10/17 11:24, Christian Lenz wrote:
> The best IDE for Android is coming from Google and called Android Studio, which is based on Intellij 😉. https://developer.android.com/studio/index.html I think they canceled the Support for the plugin for eclipse, for doing this.
Yes, I know, but "best IDE" should be "existing IDE". I mean, Android
Studio just sucks (with all respect due). I was wondering how much
Google is paying Intellij guys for doing this.
>
>
> Please don’t Forget all the webdevelopers like me, who are developing with AngularJS and Angular + TypeScript or React or Vue or whatever. Node, express Less, Sass, (Whish is not part of NetBeans, which is strange) and Scss (Which is part of NetBeans).
Agreed. That's a third user base.
AW: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
The best IDE for Android is coming from Google and called Android Studio, which is based on Intellij 😉. https://developer.android.com/studio/index.html I think they canceled the Support for the plugin for eclipse, for doing this.
Please don’t Forget all the webdevelopers like me, who are developing with AngularJS and Angular + TypeScript or React or Vue or whatever. Node, express Less, Sass, (Whish is not part of NetBeans, which is strange) and Scss (Which is part of NetBeans).
Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
Von: Antonio
Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Oktober 2017 11:18
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans 9 release date
On 13/10/17 09:49, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net> wrote:
>> ...Should NetBeans support Apache Spark? Tomcat? The Go programming
>> language? R? Whatever? Just find a big pool of developers and ask them
>> what to do next, what they need, what they want...
>
> However I think NetBeans is more an end-user tool. I use it myself but
> don't really care how it's built, and learning that would not help me
> progress much in my careeer where I'm doing other things - with
> similar technologies but other things.
It's important to know that the NetBeans user base is. Maybe we should
start by defining that. I distinguish these two sets:
- One part of the NetBeans user base is formed by (or was formed by) big
companies and organizations such as NATO, The US Navy, the European
Union, Boeing, NASA, ESA, UNESCO, and many other companies, big and
small. See [1] for a list. These companies and organizations may be
interested in some sort of support, or may provide funding through
sponshorships, so that the project is kept alive and up to date with new
platforms and technologies. By listening to these user base we may learn
how to improve the platform and understand what their problems are
(installers?, UI improvements?, geo and map support?). And they may even
want to donate code they built over the years.
- Another part of the NetBeans user base is formed by Java
(C/C++/Ruby/PHP) developers that prefer to use NetBeans as their IDE.
NetBeans is well positioned as an IDE for PHP and C/C++ in Unix
environments. I don't know what funding could be in these, maybe
crowfunding is an option, as you say. Another option (a difficult one)
is forking commercial products that concentrate in specific
areas/requirements (say an IDE for R projects?) and that is funded by
subscriptions, much like IntelliJ is doing.
[1] https://platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Antonio <an...@vieiro.net>.
On 13/10/17 09:49, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net> wrote:
>> ...Should NetBeans support Apache Spark? Tomcat? The Go programming
>> language? R? Whatever? Just find a big pool of developers and ask them
>> what to do next, what they need, what they want...
>
> However I think NetBeans is more an end-user tool. I use it myself but
> don't really care how it's built, and learning that would not help me
> progress much in my careeer where I'm doing other things - with
> similar technologies but other things.
It's important to know that the NetBeans user base is. Maybe we should
start by defining that. I distinguish these two sets:
- One part of the NetBeans user base is formed by (or was formed by) big
companies and organizations such as NATO, The US Navy, the European
Union, Boeing, NASA, ESA, UNESCO, and many other companies, big and
small. See [1] for a list. These companies and organizations may be
interested in some sort of support, or may provide funding through
sponshorships, so that the project is kept alive and up to date with new
platforms and technologies. By listening to these user base we may learn
how to improve the platform and understand what their problems are
(installers?, UI improvements?, geo and map support?). And they may even
want to donate code they built over the years.
- Another part of the NetBeans user base is formed by Java
(C/C++/Ruby/PHP) developers that prefer to use NetBeans as their IDE.
NetBeans is well positioned as an IDE for PHP and C/C++ in Unix
environments. I don't know what funding could be in these, maybe
crowfunding is an option, as you say. Another option (a difficult one)
is forking commercial products that concentrate in specific
areas/requirements (say an IDE for R projects?) and that is funded by
subscriptions, much like IntelliJ is doing.
[1] https://platform.netbeans.org/screenshots.html
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>
wrote:
> Yeah they started and then they cancled it. The go plugins, are far away
> of usable. I talked to the devs, because you can see no source Code in the
> plugin Portal. One Project is at github now, the other one, I’m waiting for
> the Code. And there are Features missing to implement it as a plugin for
> NetBeans like the Options for indentation, you can’t do it. The Problem
> still exists for the TypeScript Editor: https://github.com/Everlaw/
> nbts/issues/81
That was not the question. The question was "WHY would someone work on a Go
plugin for free?"
And, clearly, people HAVE been working on various Go plugins, for free, for
whatever reason.
The next, and a totally separate question, is about the stability and
completeness of those plugins. I think, under Apache, the chances are much
bigger that people will not work on their own, so that the chance of
continued development is much larger than in the past.
Gj
AW: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
Yeah they started and then they cancled it. The go plugins, are far away of usable. I talked to the devs, because you can see no source Code in the plugin Portal. One Project is at github now, the other one, I’m waiting for the Code. And there are Features missing to implement it as a plugin for NetBeans like the Options for indentation, you can’t do it. The Problem still exists for the TypeScript Editor: https://github.com/Everlaw/nbts/issues/81
Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Oktober 2017 10:10
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans 9 release date
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 9:49 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bdelacretaz@apache.org
> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net>
> wrote:
> > ...Should NetBeans support Apache Spark? Tomcat? The Go programming
> > language? R? Whatever? Just find a big pool of developers and ask them
> > what to do next, what they need, what they want...
>
> Funding such work is a problem - I could tell you guys that I want to
> use NetBeans for Go, but why would someone work for free on
> implementing that?
Someone has already been working for free on implementing that:
http://tunnelvisionlabs.com/products/demo/goworks
Here's another one:
http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/62162/go-project
Here's another one:
http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/25606/go
And there's probably more, in various states of usefulness and stability.
Under Apache, what we'll be able to have is a central place where everyone
working on Go can work together. We've never had such a central neutral
place before, it's always been various people working on their own outside
Sun or Oracle and never without an organized structure for interacting and
co-operating with each other.
There's very few technologies and languages for which some kind of support
doesn't already exist for NetBeans over the years -- all created for free
by enthusiastic supporters of one technology or another. In answer to your
question -- people work for free to create tooling for a technology, such
as Go, in order to promote that technology, for whatever reason.
Gj
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Antonio <an...@vieiro.net>.
I will print this and then hang it here for all to see.
Thanks for this, Wade.
On 14/10/17 15:51, Wade Chandler wrote:
> Posting on top here. Regardless of an NB 9 release date, I think 2 things
> can be huge factors.
>
> 1) That not everything we give users comes from Apache NetBeans, but
> instead we make it super easy to link to projects build artifacts from the
> idea of the plugin center. IMO, Visual Studio Code is rocking that out.
>
> 2) We have a good cadence to our releases and updates at some point. I
> think we have to get much further to do it simply because of where we are
> in this process, but the pieces we maintain as the core of NB needs to be
> releasing fixes and features often. Those things should then better support
> #1 which makes it easier for other languages and features to be available
> for users without us having to care about the projects specific license,
> nor the people writing it needing to buy in fully to our base processes.
>
> I think once we get moved over, and get to where we can release, addressing
> some big points first, such as indexing or lockups and slow downs, along
> with agreeing on the above or it's alternatives, then we can really move
> forward in some great ways. But, we have to do innovative things, and
> support others doing them too without our overhead if they perceive things
> that way.
>
> We can really start to look at those innovative and better ways to do
> things once moved over. It is a definite prerequisite that I think we
> cannot worry about, but just do. A new version of NB is important, but
> let's not let that get in the way of where we are trying to get to to move
> to Apache. Things can and will come roaring back, but only if we get there.
>
> I think the folks already in the queue can make the above a reality, and
> IMO the end users will come, come back, or stay. I say this as someone who
> uses NB daily to build software other than NB, and as a contributor.
>
> If the contributors are making the IDE and platform awesome, then it will
> continue to exist, and get better, and then the user problem will solve
> itself even if we have a perceived bump in the road; it really will. The
> beauty is there is no company to stop supporting it, so if contributors
> keep contributing, it has only an upside. Without that, nothing but a down
> side, so let's just keep rallying around it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Wade
>
>
> On Oct 13, 2017 03:09, "Geertjan Wielenga" <ge...@googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 9:49 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
>> bdelacretaz@apache.org
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> ...Should NetBeans support Apache Spark? Tomcat? The Go programming
>>>> language? R? Whatever? Just find a big pool of developers and ask them
>>>> what to do next, what they need, what they want...
>>>
>>> Funding such work is a problem - I could tell you guys that I want to
>>> use NetBeans for Go, but why would someone work for free on
>>> implementing that?
>>
>>
>>
>> Someone has already been working for free on implementing that:
>>
>> http://tunnelvisionlabs.com/products/demo/goworks
>>
>> Here's another one:
>>
>> http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/62162/go-project
>>
>> Here's another one:
>>
>> http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/25606/go
>>
>> And there's probably more, in various states of usefulness and stability.
>>
>> Under Apache, what we'll be able to have is a central place where everyone
>> working on Go can work together. We've never had such a central neutral
>> place before, it's always been various people working on their own outside
>> Sun or Oracle and never without an organized structure for interacting and
>> co-operating with each other.
>>
>> There's very few technologies and languages for which some kind of support
>> doesn't already exist for NetBeans over the years -- all created for free
>> by enthusiastic supporters of one technology or another. In answer to your
>> question -- people work for free to create tooling for a technology, such
>> as Go, in order to promote that technology, for whatever reason.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Wade Chandler <wa...@apache.org>.
Posting on top here. Regardless of an NB 9 release date, I think 2 things
can be huge factors.
1) That not everything we give users comes from Apache NetBeans, but
instead we make it super easy to link to projects build artifacts from the
idea of the plugin center. IMO, Visual Studio Code is rocking that out.
2) We have a good cadence to our releases and updates at some point. I
think we have to get much further to do it simply because of where we are
in this process, but the pieces we maintain as the core of NB needs to be
releasing fixes and features often. Those things should then better support
#1 which makes it easier for other languages and features to be available
for users without us having to care about the projects specific license,
nor the people writing it needing to buy in fully to our base processes.
I think once we get moved over, and get to where we can release, addressing
some big points first, such as indexing or lockups and slow downs, along
with agreeing on the above or it's alternatives, then we can really move
forward in some great ways. But, we have to do innovative things, and
support others doing them too without our overhead if they perceive things
that way.
We can really start to look at those innovative and better ways to do
things once moved over. It is a definite prerequisite that I think we
cannot worry about, but just do. A new version of NB is important, but
let's not let that get in the way of where we are trying to get to to move
to Apache. Things can and will come roaring back, but only if we get there.
I think the folks already in the queue can make the above a reality, and
IMO the end users will come, come back, or stay. I say this as someone who
uses NB daily to build software other than NB, and as a contributor.
If the contributors are making the IDE and platform awesome, then it will
continue to exist, and get better, and then the user problem will solve
itself even if we have a perceived bump in the road; it really will. The
beauty is there is no company to stop supporting it, so if contributors
keep contributing, it has only an upside. Without that, nothing but a down
side, so let's just keep rallying around it.
Thanks
Wade
On Oct 13, 2017 03:09, "Geertjan Wielenga" <ge...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 9:49 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
> bdelacretaz@apache.org
> > wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net>
> > wrote:
> > > ...Should NetBeans support Apache Spark? Tomcat? The Go programming
> > > language? R? Whatever? Just find a big pool of developers and ask them
> > > what to do next, what they need, what they want...
> >
> > Funding such work is a problem - I could tell you guys that I want to
> > use NetBeans for Go, but why would someone work for free on
> > implementing that?
>
>
>
> Someone has already been working for free on implementing that:
>
> http://tunnelvisionlabs.com/products/demo/goworks
>
> Here's another one:
>
> http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/62162/go-project
>
> Here's another one:
>
> http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/25606/go
>
> And there's probably more, in various states of usefulness and stability.
>
> Under Apache, what we'll be able to have is a central place where everyone
> working on Go can work together. We've never had such a central neutral
> place before, it's always been various people working on their own outside
> Sun or Oracle and never without an organized structure for interacting and
> co-operating with each other.
>
> There's very few technologies and languages for which some kind of support
> doesn't already exist for NetBeans over the years -- all created for free
> by enthusiastic supporters of one technology or another. In answer to your
> question -- people work for free to create tooling for a technology, such
> as Go, in order to promote that technology, for whatever reason.
>
> Gj
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 9:49 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bdelacretaz@apache.org
> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net>
> wrote:
> > ...Should NetBeans support Apache Spark? Tomcat? The Go programming
> > language? R? Whatever? Just find a big pool of developers and ask them
> > what to do next, what they need, what they want...
>
> Funding such work is a problem - I could tell you guys that I want to
> use NetBeans for Go, but why would someone work for free on
> implementing that?
Someone has already been working for free on implementing that:
http://tunnelvisionlabs.com/products/demo/goworks
Here's another one:
http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/62162/go-project
Here's another one:
http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/25606/go
And there's probably more, in various states of usefulness and stability.
Under Apache, what we'll be able to have is a central place where everyone
working on Go can work together. We've never had such a central neutral
place before, it's always been various people working on their own outside
Sun or Oracle and never without an organized structure for interacting and
co-operating with each other.
There's very few technologies and languages for which some kind of support
doesn't already exist for NetBeans over the years -- all created for free
by enthusiastic supporters of one technology or another. In answer to your
question -- people work for free to create tooling for a technology, such
as Go, in order to promote that technology, for whatever reason.
Gj
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net> wrote:
> ...Should NetBeans support Apache Spark? Tomcat? The Go programming
> language? R? Whatever? Just find a big pool of developers and ask them
> what to do next, what they need, what they want...
Funding such work is a problem - I could tell you guys that I want to
use NetBeans for Go, but why would someone work for free on
implementing that?
If you're a consultant (I used to) it's not really "for free" as that
work is also your marketing and might lead to you getting gigs because
you know the thing inside out. That can work well for programming
tools where expert users can quickly become active contributors.
People can also contribute as a great way to learn new things, of
course.
However I think NetBeans is more an end-user tool. I use it myself but
don't really care how it's built, and learning that would not help me
progress much in my careeer where I'm doing other things - with
similar technologies but other things.
What I'm trying to say is that it's harder for "end user tools" than
for "programming libraries and tools" to find active contributors
willing to work "for free" to improve the product (all quoted things
mean "ok not really but you see what I mean"). And I think NetBeans is
closer to an end user tool than programming libraries and tools.
So it might be worth experimenting with other models than the usual
"hey guys can you do this please" one, for a tool such as NetBeans.
The ASF itself does not fund developers, but independent crowdfunding
campaigns are possible, see
https://community.apache.org/committers/funding-disclaimer.html for an
example that I think worked.
-Bertrand
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Antonio Vieiro <an...@vieiro.net>.
> El 12 oct 2017, a las 23:56, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com> escribió:
>
>> I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using NetBeans
> and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively move
> away from.
>
> As a counterpart to this, I don't know where the millions of NetBeans users
> are.
Those millions of users are waiting for you to ask them what they want. It’s exactly the same Emilian did with yameter.com a few days after the release:
https://twitter.com/emilianbold/status/916775452714336256
Should NetBeans support Apache Spark? Tomcat? The Go programming language? R? Whatever? Just find a big pool of developers and ask them what to do next, what they need, what they want. There’s no Oracle direction now (or if there’s then it’s just a direction, not all direction), nobody is deciding what the future will be. So the NetBeans CEO (CEOs) must start asking customers what they want.
Hint: Apache has a big pool of developers.
Hint 2: Ernie’s vi emulator should be included in NetBeans 9.
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:46 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> We could then focus on releasing that -- i.e., the first release would
>> consist of all the new JDK 9 features (Jigsaw, JShell, etc), together with
>> then relicensed source code.
There’re no Oracle deadlines now. So the NetBeans Governance (or whatever is called, why am I asking this? Not clear enough?) should set a roadmap ASAP and start blogging about it in the net. Many users will appreciate a public roadmap. It gives us a sense of confidence on what to expect.
And if this roadmap is decided by the NetBeans Governance _and_ the users, the better.
In fact a lack of roadmap can be seen as a competitive advantage, a blank sheet for users deciding the NetBeans future.
>>
>> I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using NetBeans
>> and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively move
>> away from.
“Build it, and they will come”
Cheers,
Antonio
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
I must say there are already way more people sending in pull requests to
Apache NetBeans, right now, than I had anticipated at this point. Plus,
Emilian's amazing army of contributors that we had never heard of before,
etc.
I think that that is how we're going to be moving forward -- via code
contributions that those able to spare the time can make, together with
sudden surprises by groups we had no idea would be interested in
participating.
Gj
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:10 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:08 AM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/13/2017 12:05 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>> > Sorry, there are no millions of NetBeans users.
>>
>> And who cares if there are millions or thousands.
>> As long as _WE_ find it worthwhile to develop, it will have a home at
>> Apache :)
>>
>> This shouldn't be a popularity contest. Apache is about fostering and
>> helping communities who are passionate about a project - whether they
>> consist of 5 people or 5 million doesn't matter.
>>
>>
> Exactly.
>
> Gj
>
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:08 AM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 10/13/2017 12:05 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> > Sorry, there are no millions of NetBeans users.
>
> And who cares if there are millions or thousands.
> As long as _WE_ find it worthwhile to develop, it will have a home at
> Apache :)
>
> This shouldn't be a popularity contest. Apache is about fostering and
> helping communities who are passionate about a project - whether they
> consist of 5 people or 5 million doesn't matter.
>
>
Exactly.
Gj
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 10/13/2017 12:05 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> Sorry, there are no millions of NetBeans users.
And who cares if there are millions or thousands.
As long as _WE_ find it worthwhile to develop, it will have a home at
Apache :)
This shouldn't be a popularity contest. Apache is about fostering and
helping communities who are passionate about a project - whether they
consist of 5 people or 5 million doesn't matter.
>
> Also think about something else -- there are supposedly 9 million or so
> Java developers in the world. Whenever ZeroTurnaround puts together a
> survey, they have a massive struggle to even get 2000 people (of 9
> million!) to fill in their survey.
>
> So, it's not about NetBeans but about the fact that, indeed, the vast
> majority are simply users. The excellent thing about the Apache Foundation
> is that once something is in Apache, it is clear that involvement and
> engagement is needed and I think -- as we're already seeing -- that
> involvement will increase.
>
> Gj
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:01 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> There's already several people involved in Apache NetBeans that weren't
>> involved at all before.
>>
>> And, no one has ever said that there are "millions of NetBeans users". At
>> its height, NetBeans has been in use by about 1.5 million people -- i.e.,
>> that's measured per month and the most popular months have always been the
>> first months of the school/college/university year, i.e., a large subset of
>> NetBeans users are students studying Java. In time, a segment of that group
>> could also become involved, e.g., by contributing code or fixing bugs, etc,
>> i.e., not beginner students but maybe in their 2nd or 3rd year or so, or
>> maybe students doing their thesis, etc.
>>
>> But, no, there definitely are not millions of NetBeans users, no one has
>> ever claimed that.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
>>> NetBeans
>>> and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively move
>>> away from.
>>>
>>> As a counterpart to this, I don't know where the millions of NetBeans
>>> users
>>> are.
>>>
>>> I don't see them in real life, not on social media, not on issues, wiki,
>>> anywhere!
>>>
>>> We should be flooded, no?
>>>
>>> So, the plain answer is that most of the people use something free without
>>> giving anything back. Moving away from this will be harmful to the
>>> project.
>>>
>>> The question then is how to grow the involved *and* the silent user base.
>>> My impression is that it also involves money.
>>>
>>> --emi
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:46 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
>>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, we're working right now on changing the licenses to Apache. Hard to
>>>> know when that will be done, but it should be within this month, I
>>> think.
>>>>
>>>> We could then focus on releasing that -- i.e., the first release would
>>>> consist of all the new JDK 9 features (Jigsaw, JShell, etc), together
>>> with
>>>> then relicensed source code.
>>>>
>>>> And, in terms of people only wanting to be users -- I think that time is
>>>> coming to an end. People will need to contribute -- whether it is
>>> answers
>>>> to questions on the mailing list, new FAQs, blog entries, Twitter,
>>> code, or
>>>> whatever -- everyone that uses NetBeans will need to become actively
>>>> involved in the community, which doesn't take much time at all -- a nice
>>>> tweet about NetBeans takes about 5 seconds to write.
>>>>
>>>> I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
>>> NetBeans
>>>> and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively
>>> move
>>>> away from.
>>>>
>>>> Gj
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:40 PM, Christian Lenz <el...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Often People ask for NetBeans 9 and yes we already know that, because
>>>>> geertjan often said that it is up to all of us 😉. But often People
>>> only
>>>>> want to be users as I say it often. They want to use NetBeans. Ok
>>> anyway
>>>>> but the Thing is, do we have a specific date like a release Roadmap
>>> for
>>>> NB
>>>>> 9.0 for the first release? If not, then we should have one. The old
>>>> Roadmap
>>>>> from Oracle is now obsolete, right? So we should think about it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Yes, we have a dedicated team in Oracle in India working on NetBeans. And,
no, that is not how Apache NetBeans is going to be driven -- by a team of
developers in Oracle in India. :-) It is going to be driven by all of us,
together.
Gj
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:07 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> No, that's not the same. When you say there are "millions of NetBeans
> users", that's not the same as "one million NetBeans users" and, again,
> that number is the absolute peak -- that's not necessarily the most
> consistent number, just its absolute height, in one particular month over a
> particular year.
>
> Gj
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:05 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Sorry, there are no millions of NetBeans users.
>>
>> Also think about something else -- there are supposedly 9 million or so
>> Java developers in the world. Whenever ZeroTurnaround puts together a
>> survey, they have a massive struggle to even get 2000 people (of 9
>> million!) to fill in their survey.
>>
>> So, it's not about NetBeans but about the fact that, indeed, the vast
>> majority are simply users. The excellent thing about the Apache Foundation
>> is that once something is in Apache, it is clear that involvement and
>> engagement is needed and I think -- as we're already seeing -- that
>> involvement will increase.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:01 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> There's already several people involved in Apache NetBeans that weren't
>>> involved at all before.
>>>
>>> And, no one has ever said that there are "millions of NetBeans users".
>>> At its height, NetBeans has been in use by about 1.5 million people --
>>> i.e., that's measured per month and the most popular months have always
>>> been the first months of the school/college/university year, i.e., a large
>>> subset of NetBeans users are students studying Java. In time, a segment of
>>> that group could also become involved, e.g., by contributing code or fixing
>>> bugs, etc, i.e., not beginner students but maybe in their 2nd or 3rd year
>>> or so, or maybe students doing their thesis, etc.
>>>
>>> But, no, there definitely are not millions of NetBeans users, no one has
>>> ever claimed that.
>>>
>>> Gj
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
>>>> NetBeans
>>>> and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively
>>>> move
>>>> away from.
>>>>
>>>> As a counterpart to this, I don't know where the millions of NetBeans
>>>> users
>>>> are.
>>>>
>>>> I don't see them in real life, not on social media, not on issues, wiki,
>>>> anywhere!
>>>>
>>>> We should be flooded, no?
>>>>
>>>> So, the plain answer is that most of the people use something free
>>>> without
>>>> giving anything back. Moving away from this will be harmful to the
>>>> project.
>>>>
>>>> The question then is how to grow the involved *and* the silent user
>>>> base.
>>>> My impression is that it also involves money.
>>>>
>>>> --emi
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:46 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
>>>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Yes, we're working right now on changing the licenses to Apache. Hard
>>>> to
>>>> > know when that will be done, but it should be within this month, I
>>>> think.
>>>> >
>>>> > We could then focus on releasing that -- i.e., the first release would
>>>> > consist of all the new JDK 9 features (Jigsaw, JShell, etc), together
>>>> with
>>>> > then relicensed source code.
>>>> >
>>>> > And, in terms of people only wanting to be users -- I think that time
>>>> is
>>>> > coming to an end. People will need to contribute -- whether it is
>>>> answers
>>>> > to questions on the mailing list, new FAQs, blog entries, Twitter,
>>>> code, or
>>>> > whatever -- everyone that uses NetBeans will need to become actively
>>>> > involved in the community, which doesn't take much time at all -- a
>>>> nice
>>>> > tweet about NetBeans takes about 5 seconds to write.
>>>> >
>>>> > I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
>>>> NetBeans
>>>> > and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively
>>>> move
>>>> > away from.
>>>> >
>>>> > Gj
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:40 PM, Christian Lenz <el...@gmx.de>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > Often People ask for NetBeans 9 and yes we already know that,
>>>> because
>>>> > > geertjan often said that it is up to all of us 😉. But often People
>>>> only
>>>> > > want to be users as I say it often. They want to use NetBeans. Ok
>>>> anyway
>>>> > > but the Thing is, do we have a specific date like a release Roadmap
>>>> for
>>>> > NB
>>>> > > 9.0 for the first release? If not, then we should have one. The old
>>>> > Roadmap
>>>> > > from Oracle is now obsolete, right? So we should think about it.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Cheers
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Chris
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
No, that's not the same. When you say there are "millions of NetBeans
users", that's not the same as "one million NetBeans users" and, again,
that number is the absolute peak -- that's not necessarily the most
consistent number, just its absolute height, in one particular month over a
particular year.
Gj
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:05 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Sorry, there are no millions of NetBeans users.
>
> Also think about something else -- there are supposedly 9 million or so
> Java developers in the world. Whenever ZeroTurnaround puts together a
> survey, they have a massive struggle to even get 2000 people (of 9
> million!) to fill in their survey.
>
> So, it's not about NetBeans but about the fact that, indeed, the vast
> majority are simply users. The excellent thing about the Apache Foundation
> is that once something is in Apache, it is clear that involvement and
> engagement is needed and I think -- as we're already seeing -- that
> involvement will increase.
>
> Gj
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:01 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> There's already several people involved in Apache NetBeans that weren't
>> involved at all before.
>>
>> And, no one has ever said that there are "millions of NetBeans users". At
>> its height, NetBeans has been in use by about 1.5 million people -- i.e.,
>> that's measured per month and the most popular months have always been the
>> first months of the school/college/university year, i.e., a large subset of
>> NetBeans users are students studying Java. In time, a segment of that group
>> could also become involved, e.g., by contributing code or fixing bugs, etc,
>> i.e., not beginner students but maybe in their 2nd or 3rd year or so, or
>> maybe students doing their thesis, etc.
>>
>> But, no, there definitely are not millions of NetBeans users, no one has
>> ever claimed that.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> > I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
>>> NetBeans
>>> and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively
>>> move
>>> away from.
>>>
>>> As a counterpart to this, I don't know where the millions of NetBeans
>>> users
>>> are.
>>>
>>> I don't see them in real life, not on social media, not on issues, wiki,
>>> anywhere!
>>>
>>> We should be flooded, no?
>>>
>>> So, the plain answer is that most of the people use something free
>>> without
>>> giving anything back. Moving away from this will be harmful to the
>>> project.
>>>
>>> The question then is how to grow the involved *and* the silent user base.
>>> My impression is that it also involves money.
>>>
>>> --emi
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:46 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
>>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Yes, we're working right now on changing the licenses to Apache. Hard
>>> to
>>> > know when that will be done, but it should be within this month, I
>>> think.
>>> >
>>> > We could then focus on releasing that -- i.e., the first release would
>>> > consist of all the new JDK 9 features (Jigsaw, JShell, etc), together
>>> with
>>> > then relicensed source code.
>>> >
>>> > And, in terms of people only wanting to be users -- I think that time
>>> is
>>> > coming to an end. People will need to contribute -- whether it is
>>> answers
>>> > to questions on the mailing list, new FAQs, blog entries, Twitter,
>>> code, or
>>> > whatever -- everyone that uses NetBeans will need to become actively
>>> > involved in the community, which doesn't take much time at all -- a
>>> nice
>>> > tweet about NetBeans takes about 5 seconds to write.
>>> >
>>> > I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
>>> NetBeans
>>> > and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively
>>> move
>>> > away from.
>>> >
>>> > Gj
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:40 PM, Christian Lenz <el...@gmx.de>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Often People ask for NetBeans 9 and yes we already know that, because
>>> > > geertjan often said that it is up to all of us 😉. But often People
>>> only
>>> > > want to be users as I say it often. They want to use NetBeans. Ok
>>> anyway
>>> > > but the Thing is, do we have a specific date like a release Roadmap
>>> for
>>> > NB
>>> > > 9.0 for the first release? If not, then we should have one. The old
>>> > Roadmap
>>> > > from Oracle is now obsolete, right? So we should think about it.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Cheers
>>> > >
>>> > > Chris
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Sorry, there are no millions of NetBeans users.
Also think about something else -- there are supposedly 9 million or so
Java developers in the world. Whenever ZeroTurnaround puts together a
survey, they have a massive struggle to even get 2000 people (of 9
million!) to fill in their survey.
So, it's not about NetBeans but about the fact that, indeed, the vast
majority are simply users. The excellent thing about the Apache Foundation
is that once something is in Apache, it is clear that involvement and
engagement is needed and I think -- as we're already seeing -- that
involvement will increase.
Gj
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:01 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> There's already several people involved in Apache NetBeans that weren't
> involved at all before.
>
> And, no one has ever said that there are "millions of NetBeans users". At
> its height, NetBeans has been in use by about 1.5 million people -- i.e.,
> that's measured per month and the most popular months have always been the
> first months of the school/college/university year, i.e., a large subset of
> NetBeans users are students studying Java. In time, a segment of that group
> could also become involved, e.g., by contributing code or fixing bugs, etc,
> i.e., not beginner students but maybe in their 2nd or 3rd year or so, or
> maybe students doing their thesis, etc.
>
> But, no, there definitely are not millions of NetBeans users, no one has
> ever claimed that.
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> > I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
>> NetBeans
>> and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively move
>> away from.
>>
>> As a counterpart to this, I don't know where the millions of NetBeans
>> users
>> are.
>>
>> I don't see them in real life, not on social media, not on issues, wiki,
>> anywhere!
>>
>> We should be flooded, no?
>>
>> So, the plain answer is that most of the people use something free without
>> giving anything back. Moving away from this will be harmful to the
>> project.
>>
>> The question then is how to grow the involved *and* the silent user base.
>> My impression is that it also involves money.
>>
>> --emi
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:46 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
>> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Yes, we're working right now on changing the licenses to Apache. Hard to
>> > know when that will be done, but it should be within this month, I
>> think.
>> >
>> > We could then focus on releasing that -- i.e., the first release would
>> > consist of all the new JDK 9 features (Jigsaw, JShell, etc), together
>> with
>> > then relicensed source code.
>> >
>> > And, in terms of people only wanting to be users -- I think that time is
>> > coming to an end. People will need to contribute -- whether it is
>> answers
>> > to questions on the mailing list, new FAQs, blog entries, Twitter,
>> code, or
>> > whatever -- everyone that uses NetBeans will need to become actively
>> > involved in the community, which doesn't take much time at all -- a nice
>> > tweet about NetBeans takes about 5 seconds to write.
>> >
>> > I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
>> NetBeans
>> > and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively
>> move
>> > away from.
>> >
>> > Gj
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:40 PM, Christian Lenz <el...@gmx.de> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Often People ask for NetBeans 9 and yes we already know that, because
>> > > geertjan often said that it is up to all of us 😉. But often People
>> only
>> > > want to be users as I say it often. They want to use NetBeans. Ok
>> anyway
>> > > but the Thing is, do we have a specific date like a release Roadmap
>> for
>> > NB
>> > > 9.0 for the first release? If not, then we should have one. The old
>> > Roadmap
>> > > from Oracle is now obsolete, right? So we should think about it.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Cheers
>> > >
>> > > Chris
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>
AW: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
NetBeans has about 1M users or it is used by about 1M people, isn’t that the same?
Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Oktober 2017 00:02
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans 9 release date
There's already several people involved in Apache NetBeans that weren't
involved at all before.
And, no one has ever said that there are "millions of NetBeans users". At
its height, NetBeans has been in use by about 1.5 million people -- i.e.,
that's measured per month and the most popular months have always been the
first months of the school/college/university year, i.e., a large subset of
NetBeans users are students studying Java. In time, a segment of that group
could also become involved, e.g., by contributing code or fixing bugs, etc,
i.e., not beginner students but maybe in their 2nd or 3rd year or so, or
maybe students doing their thesis, etc.
But, no, there definitely are not millions of NetBeans users, no one has
ever claimed that.
Gj
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
> NetBeans
> and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively move
> away from.
>
> As a counterpart to this, I don't know where the millions of NetBeans users
> are.
>
> I don't see them in real life, not on social media, not on issues, wiki,
> anywhere!
>
> We should be flooded, no?
>
> So, the plain answer is that most of the people use something free without
> giving anything back. Moving away from this will be harmful to the project.
>
> The question then is how to grow the involved *and* the silent user base.
> My impression is that it also involves money.
>
> --emi
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:46 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, we're working right now on changing the licenses to Apache. Hard to
> > know when that will be done, but it should be within this month, I think.
> >
> > We could then focus on releasing that -- i.e., the first release would
> > consist of all the new JDK 9 features (Jigsaw, JShell, etc), together
> with
> > then relicensed source code.
> >
> > And, in terms of people only wanting to be users -- I think that time is
> > coming to an end. People will need to contribute -- whether it is answers
> > to questions on the mailing list, new FAQs, blog entries, Twitter, code,
> or
> > whatever -- everyone that uses NetBeans will need to become actively
> > involved in the community, which doesn't take much time at all -- a nice
> > tweet about NetBeans takes about 5 seconds to write.
> >
> > I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
> NetBeans
> > and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively
> move
> > away from.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:40 PM, Christian Lenz <el...@gmx.de> wrote:
> >
> > > Often People ask for NetBeans 9 and yes we already know that, because
> > > geertjan often said that it is up to all of us 😉. But often People
> only
> > > want to be users as I say it often. They want to use NetBeans. Ok
> anyway
> > > but the Thing is, do we have a specific date like a release Roadmap for
> > NB
> > > 9.0 for the first release? If not, then we should have one. The old
> > Roadmap
> > > from Oracle is now obsolete, right? So we should think about it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
There's already several people involved in Apache NetBeans that weren't
involved at all before.
And, no one has ever said that there are "millions of NetBeans users". At
its height, NetBeans has been in use by about 1.5 million people -- i.e.,
that's measured per month and the most popular months have always been the
first months of the school/college/university year, i.e., a large subset of
NetBeans users are students studying Java. In time, a segment of that group
could also become involved, e.g., by contributing code or fixing bugs, etc,
i.e., not beginner students but maybe in their 2nd or 3rd year or so, or
maybe students doing their thesis, etc.
But, no, there definitely are not millions of NetBeans users, no one has
ever claimed that.
Gj
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
> NetBeans
> and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively move
> away from.
>
> As a counterpart to this, I don't know where the millions of NetBeans users
> are.
>
> I don't see them in real life, not on social media, not on issues, wiki,
> anywhere!
>
> We should be flooded, no?
>
> So, the plain answer is that most of the people use something free without
> giving anything back. Moving away from this will be harmful to the project.
>
> The question then is how to grow the involved *and* the silent user base.
> My impression is that it also involves money.
>
> --emi
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:46 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, we're working right now on changing the licenses to Apache. Hard to
> > know when that will be done, but it should be within this month, I think.
> >
> > We could then focus on releasing that -- i.e., the first release would
> > consist of all the new JDK 9 features (Jigsaw, JShell, etc), together
> with
> > then relicensed source code.
> >
> > And, in terms of people only wanting to be users -- I think that time is
> > coming to an end. People will need to contribute -- whether it is answers
> > to questions on the mailing list, new FAQs, blog entries, Twitter, code,
> or
> > whatever -- everyone that uses NetBeans will need to become actively
> > involved in the community, which doesn't take much time at all -- a nice
> > tweet about NetBeans takes about 5 seconds to write.
> >
> > I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
> NetBeans
> > and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively
> move
> > away from.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:40 PM, Christian Lenz <el...@gmx.de> wrote:
> >
> > > Often People ask for NetBeans 9 and yes we already know that, because
> > > geertjan often said that it is up to all of us 😉. But often People
> only
> > > want to be users as I say it often. They want to use NetBeans. Ok
> anyway
> > > but the Thing is, do we have a specific date like a release Roadmap for
> > NB
> > > 9.0 for the first release? If not, then we should have one. The old
> > Roadmap
> > > from Oracle is now obsolete, right? So we should think about it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> >
>
AW: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
Exactly, where are the millions of users of netbeans? We have more or less 300 users in slack, ONLY users. Maybe 20 or so will work on the Code too. We have 180 stars at Github, more likes on Twitter but that numbers are senseless. Yeah a lot of People will use a free Service and will never give something back. So it is as it is and we shouldn’t avoid that.
Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
Von: Emilian Bold
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. Oktober 2017 23:56
An: NetBeans Dev@
Betreff: Re: NetBeans 9 release date
> I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using NetBeans
and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively move
away from.
As a counterpart to this, I don't know where the millions of NetBeans users
are.
I don't see them in real life, not on social media, not on issues, wiki,
anywhere!
We should be flooded, no?
So, the plain answer is that most of the people use something free without
giving anything back. Moving away from this will be harmful to the project.
The question then is how to grow the involved *and* the silent user base.
My impression is that it also involves money.
--emi
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:46 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Yes, we're working right now on changing the licenses to Apache. Hard to
> know when that will be done, but it should be within this month, I think.
>
> We could then focus on releasing that -- i.e., the first release would
> consist of all the new JDK 9 features (Jigsaw, JShell, etc), together with
> then relicensed source code.
>
> And, in terms of people only wanting to be users -- I think that time is
> coming to an end. People will need to contribute -- whether it is answers
> to questions on the mailing list, new FAQs, blog entries, Twitter, code, or
> whatever -- everyone that uses NetBeans will need to become actively
> involved in the community, which doesn't take much time at all -- a nice
> tweet about NetBeans takes about 5 seconds to write.
>
> I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using NetBeans
> and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively move
> away from.
>
> Gj
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:40 PM, Christian Lenz <el...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > Often People ask for NetBeans 9 and yes we already know that, because
> > geertjan often said that it is up to all of us 😉. But often People only
> > want to be users as I say it often. They want to use NetBeans. Ok anyway
> > but the Thing is, do we have a specific date like a release Roadmap for
> NB
> > 9.0 for the first release? If not, then we should have one. The old
> Roadmap
> > from Oracle is now obsolete, right? So we should think about it.
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Ciprian Ciubotariu <ch...@gmx.net>
wrote:
> Making a project free software does not automatically migrate all users of
> the
> project to become contributors to the project.
PS: NetBeans has always been free software. The difference is that under
Apache, it's not only free software, but also open governance. That does
bring with it some responsibility to everyone in the community. If we end
up only having users and no committers, NetBeans is dead, of course.
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Described here:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/How+to+Participate
Indeed, a lot has still to be done, it's too early for anyone to contribute
anything other than what's described on this page at this point:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/List+of+Modules+to+Review
I agree with you -- and with Chris and Emilian -- of course there will be
many people who will 'simply' be users.
However, the more we can shift perspective from simply using to
contributing something back, however small, would be good, and fits into
the Apache approach as well.
Gj
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Ciprian Ciubotariu <ch...@gmx.net>
wrote:
> Making a project free software does not automatically migrate all users of
> the
> project to become contributors to the project. This takes time, because the
> task is to shift the mindset of the community of users being driven to
> users
> driving. Most won't shift simply because they want to be users, not
> contributors.
>
> But why would you want to reject the community of plain users that don't
> contribute back? How many users would httpd or nginx have if it would only
> be
> available to those that have contributed back to the project? I think such
> a
> policy would be far worse for httpd and for the devs that build it than
> having
> a large user base.
>
> The documentation for netbeans is still confusing. I know the process is
> slow,
> but the "community" link on netbeans.apache.org still points users to the
> mercurial repository, which is confusing for people trying to get started.
>
> What is the process a new user would have to go through to start
> contributing
> to netbeans?
>
> On Friday, 13 October 2017 00:56:06 EEST Emilian Bold wrote:
> > > I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
> NetBeans
> >
> > and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively
> move
> > away from.
> >
> > As a counterpart to this, I don't know where the millions of NetBeans
> users
> > are.
> >
> > I don't see them in real life, not on social media, not on issues, wiki,
> > anywhere!
> >
> > We should be flooded, no?
> >
> > So, the plain answer is that most of the people use something free
> without
> > giving anything back. Moving away from this will be harmful to the
> project.
> >
> > The question then is how to grow the involved *and* the silent user base.
> > My impression is that it also involves money.
> >
> > --emi
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:46 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> >
> > geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > Yes, we're working right now on changing the licenses to Apache. Hard
> to
> > > know when that will be done, but it should be within this month, I
> think.
> > >
> > > We could then focus on releasing that -- i.e., the first release would
> > > consist of all the new JDK 9 features (Jigsaw, JShell, etc), together
> with
> > > then relicensed source code.
> > >
> > > And, in terms of people only wanting to be users -- I think that time
> is
> > > coming to an end. People will need to contribute -- whether it is
> answers
> > > to questions on the mailing list, new FAQs, blog entries, Twitter,
> code,
> > > or
> > > whatever -- everyone that uses NetBeans will need to become actively
> > > involved in the community, which doesn't take much time at all -- a
> nice
> > > tweet about NetBeans takes about 5 seconds to write.
> > >
> > > I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using
> NetBeans
> > > and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively
> move
> > > away from.
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:40 PM, Christian Lenz <el...@gmx.de>
> wrote:
> > > > Often People ask for NetBeans 9 and yes we already know that, because
> > > > geertjan often said that it is up to all of us 😉. But often People
> only
> > > > want to be users as I say it often. They want to use NetBeans. Ok
> anyway
> > > > but the Thing is, do we have a specific date like a release Roadmap
> for
> > >
> > > NB
> > >
> > > > 9.0 for the first release? If not, then we should have one. The old
> > >
> > > Roadmap
> > >
> > > > from Oracle is now obsolete, right? So we should think about it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > >
> > > > Chris
>
>
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Ciprian Ciubotariu <ch...@gmx.net>.
Making a project free software does not automatically migrate all users of the
project to become contributors to the project. This takes time, because the
task is to shift the mindset of the community of users being driven to users
driving. Most won't shift simply because they want to be users, not
contributors.
But why would you want to reject the community of plain users that don't
contribute back? How many users would httpd or nginx have if it would only be
available to those that have contributed back to the project? I think such a
policy would be far worse for httpd and for the devs that build it than having
a large user base.
The documentation for netbeans is still confusing. I know the process is slow,
but the "community" link on netbeans.apache.org still points users to the
mercurial repository, which is confusing for people trying to get started.
What is the process a new user would have to go through to start contributing
to netbeans?
On Friday, 13 October 2017 00:56:06 EEST Emilian Bold wrote:
> > I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using NetBeans
>
> and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively move
> away from.
>
> As a counterpart to this, I don't know where the millions of NetBeans users
> are.
>
> I don't see them in real life, not on social media, not on issues, wiki,
> anywhere!
>
> We should be flooded, no?
>
> So, the plain answer is that most of the people use something free without
> giving anything back. Moving away from this will be harmful to the project.
>
> The question then is how to grow the involved *and* the silent user base.
> My impression is that it also involves money.
>
> --emi
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:46 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
>
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Yes, we're working right now on changing the licenses to Apache. Hard to
> > know when that will be done, but it should be within this month, I think.
> >
> > We could then focus on releasing that -- i.e., the first release would
> > consist of all the new JDK 9 features (Jigsaw, JShell, etc), together with
> > then relicensed source code.
> >
> > And, in terms of people only wanting to be users -- I think that time is
> > coming to an end. People will need to contribute -- whether it is answers
> > to questions on the mailing list, new FAQs, blog entries, Twitter, code,
> > or
> > whatever -- everyone that uses NetBeans will need to become actively
> > involved in the community, which doesn't take much time at all -- a nice
> > tweet about NetBeans takes about 5 seconds to write.
> >
> > I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using NetBeans
> > and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively move
> > away from.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:40 PM, Christian Lenz <el...@gmx.de> wrote:
> > > Often People ask for NetBeans 9 and yes we already know that, because
> > > geertjan often said that it is up to all of us 😉. But often People only
> > > want to be users as I say it often. They want to use NetBeans. Ok anyway
> > > but the Thing is, do we have a specific date like a release Roadmap for
> >
> > NB
> >
> > > 9.0 for the first release? If not, then we should have one. The old
> >
> > Roadmap
> >
> > > from Oracle is now obsolete, right? So we should think about it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Chris
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
> I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using NetBeans
and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively move
away from.
As a counterpart to this, I don't know where the millions of NetBeans users
are.
I don't see them in real life, not on social media, not on issues, wiki,
anywhere!
We should be flooded, no?
So, the plain answer is that most of the people use something free without
giving anything back. Moving away from this will be harmful to the project.
The question then is how to grow the involved *and* the silent user base.
My impression is that it also involves money.
--emi
On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:46 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Yes, we're working right now on changing the licenses to Apache. Hard to
> know when that will be done, but it should be within this month, I think.
>
> We could then focus on releasing that -- i.e., the first release would
> consist of all the new JDK 9 features (Jigsaw, JShell, etc), together with
> then relicensed source code.
>
> And, in terms of people only wanting to be users -- I think that time is
> coming to an end. People will need to contribute -- whether it is answers
> to questions on the mailing list, new FAQs, blog entries, Twitter, code, or
> whatever -- everyone that uses NetBeans will need to become actively
> involved in the community, which doesn't take much time at all -- a nice
> tweet about NetBeans takes about 5 seconds to write.
>
> I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using NetBeans
> and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively move
> away from.
>
> Gj
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:40 PM, Christian Lenz <el...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > Often People ask for NetBeans 9 and yes we already know that, because
> > geertjan often said that it is up to all of us 😉. But often People only
> > want to be users as I say it often. They want to use NetBeans. Ok anyway
> > but the Thing is, do we have a specific date like a release Roadmap for
> NB
> > 9.0 for the first release? If not, then we should have one. The old
> Roadmap
> > from Oracle is now obsolete, right? So we should think about it.
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
>
AW: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
I totally aggree with Emilian, yeah I mean we have a dedicated Team in india which is working full time on netbeans right? Geertjan said that, or did I misundestood smth?
Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
Von: Christian Lenz
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. Oktober 2017 23:58
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: AW: NetBeans 9 release date
Yeah sure, but this is more about communicating. I mean not everyone is willing to create a plugin or Change Code of the netbeans core as it is. Because if you see to other Projects like VS Code or other OSS maybe 1M People are users and from them 1% or less, are actively contributors and I think that will not come to an end anyway. Not all of us have full time to work on that Feature request or bug, that we created to fix it by our own. So all of my 200 tickets I can’t fix by my own, because lack of time and Knowledge. I will fix of Course soem, but not all.
Cheers
Chris
Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. Oktober 2017 23:46
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Yes, we're working right now on changing the licenses to Apache. Hard to
know when that will be done, but it should be within this month, I think.
We could then focus on releasing that -- i.e., the first release would
consist of all the new JDK 9 features (Jigsaw, JShell, etc), together with
then relicensed source code.
And, in terms of people only wanting to be users -- I think that time is
coming to an end. People will need to contribute -- whether it is answers
to questions on the mailing list, new FAQs, blog entries, Twitter, code, or
whatever -- everyone that uses NetBeans will need to become actively
involved in the community, which doesn't take much time at all -- a nice
tweet about NetBeans takes about 5 seconds to write.
I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using NetBeans
and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively move
away from.
Gj
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:40 PM, Christian Lenz <el...@gmx.de> wrote:
> Often People ask for NetBeans 9 and yes we already know that, because
> geertjan often said that it is up to all of us 😉. But often People only
> want to be users as I say it often. They want to use NetBeans. Ok anyway
> but the Thing is, do we have a specific date like a release Roadmap for NB
> 9.0 for the first release? If not, then we should have one. The old Roadmap
> from Oracle is now obsolete, right? So we should think about it.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>
AW: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Christian Lenz <ch...@gmx.net>.
Yeah sure, but this is more about communicating. I mean not everyone is willing to create a plugin or Change Code of the netbeans core as it is. Because if you see to other Projects like VS Code or other OSS maybe 1M People are users and from them 1% or less, are actively contributors and I think that will not come to an end anyway. Not all of us have full time to work on that Feature request or bug, that we created to fix it by our own. So all of my 200 tickets I can’t fix by my own, because lack of time and Knowledge. I will fix of Course soem, but not all.
Cheers
Chris
Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. Oktober 2017 23:46
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Yes, we're working right now on changing the licenses to Apache. Hard to
know when that will be done, but it should be within this month, I think.
We could then focus on releasing that -- i.e., the first release would
consist of all the new JDK 9 features (Jigsaw, JShell, etc), together with
then relicensed source code.
And, in terms of people only wanting to be users -- I think that time is
coming to an end. People will need to contribute -- whether it is answers
to questions on the mailing list, new FAQs, blog entries, Twitter, code, or
whatever -- everyone that uses NetBeans will need to become actively
involved in the community, which doesn't take much time at all -- a nice
tweet about NetBeans takes about 5 seconds to write.
I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using NetBeans
and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively move
away from.
Gj
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:40 PM, Christian Lenz <el...@gmx.de> wrote:
> Often People ask for NetBeans 9 and yes we already know that, because
> geertjan often said that it is up to all of us 😉. But often People only
> want to be users as I say it often. They want to use NetBeans. Ok anyway
> but the Thing is, do we have a specific date like a release Roadmap for NB
> 9.0 for the first release? If not, then we should have one. The old Roadmap
> from Oracle is now obsolete, right? So we should think about it.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>
Re: NetBeans 9 release date
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Yes, we're working right now on changing the licenses to Apache. Hard to
know when that will be done, but it should be within this month, I think.
We could then focus on releasing that -- i.e., the first release would
consist of all the new JDK 9 features (Jigsaw, JShell, etc), together with
then relicensed source code.
And, in terms of people only wanting to be users -- I think that time is
coming to an end. People will need to contribute -- whether it is answers
to questions on the mailing list, new FAQs, blog entries, Twitter, code, or
whatever -- everyone that uses NetBeans will need to become actively
involved in the community, which doesn't take much time at all -- a nice
tweet about NetBeans takes about 5 seconds to write.
I think, though this is just my opinion, that people simply using NetBeans
and not giving anything back at all, is something we need to actively move
away from.
Gj
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:40 PM, Christian Lenz <el...@gmx.de> wrote:
> Often People ask for NetBeans 9 and yes we already know that, because
> geertjan often said that it is up to all of us 😉. But often People only
> want to be users as I say it often. They want to use NetBeans. Ok anyway
> but the Thing is, do we have a specific date like a release Roadmap for NB
> 9.0 for the first release? If not, then we should have one. The old Roadmap
> from Oracle is now obsolete, right? So we should think about it.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>