[OT] Learning Curve Management or Confusions of a Newbie

[Jeff Smith <je...@centralscheduling.net>]

I have to confess, I'm a newbie. I've been a C/C++ programmer for 20 years, but after dinking around for a few months with ASP, VBScript, PHP and a few other technologies, I decided that Java was the language to build my web apps in.

A month ago I was completely cold. Didn't know the first thing about any of this stuff. But I knew I wanted to learn it, so off I went, marching into the high weeds. First I had to learn Java. Then came servlets and JSPs and Tomcat. And along that path I also had to absorb Ant. And JUnit. And Log4J. And then there was a bunch of time lost exploring NetBeans/Eclipse/WebSphere before settling on JEdit as my environment of choice.

Then came Struts, and all the various taglibs. An experiment with Cayenne. And Cactus. And god-knows what else I've explored.

And through it all, I am continually amazed at the strength and breadth of the resources and support available. And equally frustrated by it. I can never remember where I saw a particular bit of information. So when I finally learn enough to understand what Ted was talking about in his monograph on Connection Pooling, I can't remember where I saw it.

And when I want to learn enough about EJBs to figure out if I need to care about them, or if they are relevant to my planned project, I have to wade through another day of voluminous coverage before I have enough of a handle on what they are to make some intelligent guesses about where to look next.

My point is that I believe the Apache/Java/Struts/... universe is quickly reaching a point where its very breadth is becoming a barrier to entry for people who don't have a couple of months to devote to bootstrapping themselves.

Is there any thought being given to creating a higher-level resource interface that could serve as a single point of reference for all things Apache? (I realize that "all things java" would be going way too far.) As a simple solution, if every document in the Apache infrastructure had a meta tag that listed the questions answered by the document, then a very powerful, automated FAQ could be maintained. And such a system would make it much easier (I believe) to find things quickly than simply searching the site for key words.

This may not be the best (or only) solution, but I do believe that for all the very specific support and discussions there are, there is really very little over-view material to assist newcomers or people looking for information outside of their core area.

Or maybe I'm the only one who feels overwhelmed by it all. :-)

Jefficus

Re: [OT] Learning Curve Management or Confusions of a Newbie

[Jeff Smith <je...@centralscheduling.net>]

I understand the problem of volume. I'm not suggesting that we try to index
the entire internet for all apache-related information.

I'm suggesting that we explore a mechanism that ensures that everything
hosted directly in the apache infrastructure be tagged at creation/posting
time so that an automated FAQ engine can index it on a more meaningful level
than a simple key-word search. I call it a key-question search.

Imagine the difference between searching the apache site for all documents
containing the words "logging", "ant" and "config". You would get spanked by
the number of hits.

But now consider how many responses you would get if you were searching the
site for all the QUESTIONS (in that "what questions are answered by what
documents" index) that contained those words. Suddenly your response volumes
go way down.

Furthermore, the site could tag each document with a "Add another question
answered by this document" feature that would allow people to log the
questions they are finding usefully answered by particular documents.

Such a system is not particularly complex. And it relies on existing
"business" processes to populate and manage the index, once the
comparatively simple engine is integrated.

I have created similar systems in the past for integration with help systems
in desktop software packages. It allows a corporate user to develop
context-specific help for their staff that is more directly relevant to
their business and job functions than a developer can possibly hope to
anticipate at help-writing time.

And when you think about it, one way to view the apache site infrastructure
is as a giant help system.

Jefficus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Kelly" <ke...@ipe.fzk.de>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 2:01 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] Learning Curve Management or Confusions of a Newbie


> Jeff you are not alone in this.  I've been at this for six months and have
> gone through pretty much the same set of problems.  The thing with what
you
> are suggesting (and this is only my opinion) is, "Who will do it *AND*
look
> after it?".  The trouble is (and I have found this through searching the
> net) the shear volume of papers, documents, examples and postings (150+
per
> day) that would have to be referenced and collected to make this of any
use
> to people.  And I have to say, I DO NOT want the job :-)
>
> Cheers
>
> Simon
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Smith" <je...@centralscheduling.net>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 9:05 AM
> Subject: [OT] Learning Curve Management or Confusions of a Newbie
>
>
> I have to confess, I'm a newbie. I've been a C/C++ programmer for 20
years,
> but after dinking around for a few months with ASP, VBScript, PHP and a
few
> other technologies, I decided that Java was the language to build my web
> apps in.
>
> A month ago I was completely cold. Didn't know the first thing about any
of
> this stuff. But I knew I wanted to learn it, so off I went, marching into
> the high weeds. First I had to learn Java. Then came servlets and JSPs and
> Tomcat. And along that path I also had to absorb Ant. And JUnit. And
Log4J.
> And then there was a bunch of time lost exploring
NetBeans/Eclipse/WebSphere
> before settling on JEdit as my environment of choice.
>
> Then came Struts, and all the various taglibs. An experiment with Cayenne.
> And Cactus. And god-knows what else I've explored.
>
> And through it all, I am continually amazed at the strength and breadth of
> the resources and support available. And equally frustrated by it. I can
> never remember where I saw a particular bit of information. So when I
> finally learn enough to understand what Ted was talking about in his
> monograph on Connection Pooling, I can't remember where I saw it.
>
> And when I want to learn enough about EJBs to figure out if I need to care
> about them, or if they are relevant to my planned project, I have to wade
> through another day of voluminous coverage before I have enough of a
handle
> on what they are to make some intelligent guesses about where to look
next.
>
> My point is that I believe the Apache/Java/Struts/... universe is quickly
> reaching a point where its very breadth is becoming a barrier to entry for
> people who don't have a couple of months to devote to bootstrapping
> themselves.
>
> Is there any thought being given to creating a higher-level resource
> interface that could serve as a single point of reference for all things
> Apache? (I realize that "all things java" would be going way too far.) As
a
> simple solution, if every document in the Apache infrastructure had a meta
> tag that listed the questions answered by the document, then a very
> powerful, automated FAQ could be maintained. And such a system would make
it
> much easier (I believe) to find things quickly than simply searching the
> site for key words.
>
> This may not be the best (or only) solution, but I do believe that for all
> the very specific support and discussions there are, there is really very
> little over-view material to assist newcomers or people looking for
> information outside of their core area.
>
> Or maybe I'm the only one who feels overwhelmed by it all. :-)
>
> Jefficus
>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
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Dynamic clientside validation checks?

[Gunter D' Hondt <gu...@sofico.be>]

Hi,

We are generating our formbeans dynamically which results that the
regular way of clientside validation checks doesn't work anymore since
our validation.xml should only contain one form but we don't know which
formfields it will have.

Is there a way how we can dynamically send the xml stream (so not from
an xml file but built at runtime) and let the client validation get
imported to the JSP page? Or just another way of making the
validation.xml somewhere dynamic?

Any help is welcome!

Greetings,
Gunter D'Hondt.
 


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Re: [OT] Learning Curve Management or Confusions of a Newbie

[Simon Kelly <ke...@ipe.fzk.de>]

Jeff you are not alone in this.  I've been at this for six months and have
gone through pretty much the same set of problems.  The thing with what you
are suggesting (and this is only my opinion) is, "Who will do it *AND* look
after it?".  The trouble is (and I have found this through searching the
net) the shear volume of papers, documents, examples and postings (150+ per
day) that would have to be referenced and collected to make this of any use
to people.  And I have to say, I DO NOT want the job :-)

Cheers

Simon


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Smith" <je...@centralscheduling.net>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 9:05 AM
Subject: [OT] Learning Curve Management or Confusions of a Newbie


I have to confess, I'm a newbie. I've been a C/C++ programmer for 20 years,
but after dinking around for a few months with ASP, VBScript, PHP and a few
other technologies, I decided that Java was the language to build my web
apps in.

A month ago I was completely cold. Didn't know the first thing about any of
this stuff. But I knew I wanted to learn it, so off I went, marching into
the high weeds. First I had to learn Java. Then came servlets and JSPs and
Tomcat. And along that path I also had to absorb Ant. And JUnit. And Log4J.
And then there was a bunch of time lost exploring NetBeans/Eclipse/WebSphere
before settling on JEdit as my environment of choice.

Then came Struts, and all the various taglibs. An experiment with Cayenne.
And Cactus. And god-knows what else I've explored.

And through it all, I am continually amazed at the strength and breadth of
the resources and support available. And equally frustrated by it. I can
never remember where I saw a particular bit of information. So when I
finally learn enough to understand what Ted was talking about in his
monograph on Connection Pooling, I can't remember where I saw it.

And when I want to learn enough about EJBs to figure out if I need to care
about them, or if they are relevant to my planned project, I have to wade
through another day of voluminous coverage before I have enough of a handle
on what they are to make some intelligent guesses about where to look next.

My point is that I believe the Apache/Java/Struts/... universe is quickly
reaching a point where its very breadth is becoming a barrier to entry for
people who don't have a couple of months to devote to bootstrapping
themselves.

Is there any thought being given to creating a higher-level resource
interface that could serve as a single point of reference for all things
Apache? (I realize that "all things java" would be going way too far.) As a
simple solution, if every document in the Apache infrastructure had a meta
tag that listed the questions answered by the document, then a very
powerful, automated FAQ could be maintained. And such a system would make it
much easier (I believe) to find things quickly than simply searching the
site for key words.

This may not be the best (or only) solution, but I do believe that for all
the very specific support and discussions there are, there is really very
little over-view material to assist newcomers or people looking for
information outside of their core area.

Or maybe I'm the only one who feels overwhelmed by it all. :-)

Jefficus



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Re: [OT] Learning Curve Management or Confusions of a Newbie

[Micael <ca...@harbornet.com>]

No, you are right.  This is an ongoing problem.  The truth is, however, I 
think, that there is no easy solution.  Java is easy enough to learn and 
open enough to all that there is just a lot there.  No way to change that.

At 01:05 AM 3/7/03 -0700, you wrote:
>I have to confess, I'm a newbie. I've been a C/C++ programmer for 20 
>years, but after dinking around for a few months with ASP, VBScript, PHP 
>and a few other technologies, I decided that Java was the language to 
>build my web apps in.
>
>A month ago I was completely cold. Didn't know the first thing about any 
>of this stuff. But I knew I wanted to learn it, so off I went, marching 
>into the high weeds. First I had to learn Java. Then came servlets and 
>JSPs and Tomcat. And along that path I also had to absorb Ant. And JUnit. 
>And Log4J. And then there was a bunch of time lost exploring 
>NetBeans/Eclipse/WebSphere before settling on JEdit as my environment of 
>choice.
>
>Then came Struts, and all the various taglibs. An experiment with Cayenne. 
>And Cactus. And god-knows what else I've explored.
>
>And through it all, I am continually amazed at the strength and breadth of 
>the resources and support available. And equally frustrated by it. I can 
>never remember where I saw a particular bit of information. So when I 
>finally learn enough to understand what Ted was talking about in his 
>monograph on Connection Pooling, I can't remember where I saw it.
>
>And when I want to learn enough about EJBs to figure out if I need to care 
>about them, or if they are relevant to my planned project, I have to wade 
>through another day of voluminous coverage before I have enough of a 
>handle on what they are to make some intelligent guesses about where to 
>look next.
>
>My point is that I believe the Apache/Java/Struts/... universe is quickly 
>reaching a point where its very breadth is becoming a barrier to entry for 
>people who don't have a couple of months to devote to bootstrapping themselves.
>
>Is there any thought being given to creating a higher-level resource 
>interface that could serve as a single point of reference for all things 
>Apache? (I realize that "all things java" would be going way too far.) As 
>a simple solution, if every document in the Apache infrastructure had a 
>meta tag that listed the questions answered by the document, then a very 
>powerful, automated FAQ could be maintained. And such a system would make 
>it much easier (I believe) to find things quickly than simply searching 
>the site for key words.
>
>This may not be the best (or only) solution, but I do believe that for all 
>the very specific support and discussions there are, there is really very 
>little over-view material to assist newcomers or people looking for 
>information outside of their core area.
>
>Or maybe I'm the only one who feels overwhelmed by it all. :-)
>
>Jefficus



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