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Posted to dev@trafficserver.apache.org by Leif Hedstrom <zw...@apache.org> on 2010/03/15 20:17:54 UTC
[discuss] Graduation?
Hi everyone,
I'd like to open up the discussion around our graduation. In particular,
I'd like to ask for our Mentors to let us know if there are any
remaining issues that we need to resolve before we can graduate? Or if
anyone else has any issues or concerns about graduation, please discuss
here.
For more details about the graduation process, please see
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
(NOTE: This is not a vote, yet!!!)
Thanks,
-- leif
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
On 03/18/2010 03:35 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>
> Can all the people who are no Yahoo's let me know which company
> affiliation(s) they have? I had no idea we had to track what company
> contributors / PMC members work for, that honestly seems a little bit
> odd to me, but if it's the "way", I'm fine with it. I'd assume this is
> "voluntary" information though, or is it required for every member to
> disclose any and all company affiliations?
>
Although nowhere explicitly written, IIRC there was a
requirement that PMC consists of members from at least three
different companies(affiliations).
Jim will know better if that still stands.
Regards
--
^TM
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
On 03/18/2010 04:11 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> On 03/18/2010 09:04 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
>> On 03/18/2010 03:35 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>>
>>> Can all the people who are no Yahoo's let me know which company
>>> affiliation(s) they have? I had no idea we had to track what company
>>> contributors / PMC members work for, that honestly seems a little bit
>>> odd to me, but if it's the "way", I'm fine with it. I'd assume this is
>>> "voluntary" information though, or is it required for every member to
>>> disclose any and all company affiliations?
>>>
>>
>> Found it:
>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ExitingIncubator
>>
>> "No single organization supplies more than 50% of
>> the active committers (must be at least 3 independent committers)"
>
> Ah, bummer, yeah, that disqualifies us immediately. Even if you look at
> "active committers", there are 6 Yahoos (including the two doc people)
> and only 4 non-Yahoo's.
>
> Sounds like we can't graduate any time soon.
>
Well I'm not sure if this falls in formal or informal
section, so doesn't have to be the case.
The worse thing would be that you cut number
of Yahoo committers just to satisfy the rule.
> Here's the current PMC list that I got:
>
Dunno if the 50% rule applies to the PMC, but
at least there is enough diversity.
Regards
--
^TM
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
On Mar 18, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> On 03/18/2010 09:04 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
>> On 03/18/2010 03:35 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>>
>>> Can all the people who are no Yahoo's let me know which company
>>> affiliation(s) they have? I had no idea we had to track what company
>>> contributors / PMC members work for, that honestly seems a little bit
>>> odd to me, but if it's the "way", I'm fine with it. I'd assume this is
>>> "voluntary" information though, or is it required for every member to
>>> disclose any and all company affiliations?
>>>
>>
>> Found it:
>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ExitingIncubator
>>
>> "No single organization supplies more than 50% of
>> the active committers (must be at least 3 independent committers)"
>
> Ah, bummer, yeah, that disqualifies us immediately. Even if you look at "active committers", there are 6 Yahoos (including the two doc people) and only 4 non-Yahoo's.
>
> Sounds like we can't graduate any time soon.
>
Even though I brought up the issue of diversity, I did so only because
it *is* a topic that needs to be brought up and will be a question
that the board (and Incubator) has as we get closer.
But I do not feel, personally, that it is a deal breaker for us, and
I'll explain why.
First of all, let's look at the reasons why we added that criteria.
It's because we wanted to ensure a healthy and diverse community
such that, should a company back away from the projects, there would
be enough people to continue the effort. We also did it to avoid the
potential that a single entity would wield undue influence on the
development or "path" of a project.
Now let's see how this relates to TS and way, imo, it's a non-issue.
First of all, it is obvious that Y! has "backed away" from TS. Instead of
creating a project that they can leverage and make money off of, they
have done the exact opposite, and taken proprietary code, that they
could have kept to themselves, and opened it up, with the express wish
that others use it. So the idea that Y! would try to leverage it's
percentage is non-sensical...
Also, in many ways, Y! itself *has* backed away from TS. They want
TS to succeed, which is obvious, but again it is not the same to
them as what it was, which was an internal project with schedules,
etc... Finally, I am confident that those Y! people who are working
the project also have a deep, individual commitment to the project,
not as Y! employees, but as ASF committers.
One thing I suggested to the other mentors is that maybe one of
us be PMC chair for the initial time-frame (at most, 12 months),
as a recognition that there is the *potential* for the lack of
diversity to be a factor, and even though we don't feel it is a
blocker for graduation, we are taking this action pro-actively.
In summary, I feel that we have enough in our favor to convince both
the Incubator and the (rest of the) board, that as far as the letter
of the "requirements" we don't "pass" the diversity restriction, but
we do pass the spirit of it, which should be sufficient.
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Jason Giedymin <ja...@gmail.com>.
I'm dedicated to the project indefinitely. Not going anywhere :-)
-Jason
On Mar 18, 2010, at 11:59 AM, Leif Hedstrom <le...@ogre.com> wrote:
> On 03/18/2010 09:43 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
>> On 03/18/2010 04:34 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>> On 03/18/2010 09:11 AM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ah, bummer, yeah, that disqualifies us immediately. Even if you
>>>> look
>>>> at "active committers", there are 6 Yahoos (including the two doc
>>>> people) and only 4 non-Yahoo's.
>>>
>>> So, after talking with Anirban, he's willing to make some
>>> compromises
>>> here to allow us to graduate. A couple of suggestions (depends on
>>> how
>>> you define "active committers"):
>>>
>>> 1) We remove Yahoos from the membership to reduce the ratio to
>>> exactly 50%.
>>>
>>
>> Like said, IMHO this would not be fair.
>>
>> What I'm pleased of is that this community has proven that
>> its not so hard to get the committership status.
>
> Yeah, we have one more contributor that I fully expect will become a
> committer in the next 3-6 months (assuming he keeps working with
> us). A few other companies / people are showing interest too, but
> nothing near term. I'll "prod" Dima, and see what the status is of
> his commits, but even so, to reach the 50/50 restrictions, we would
> have to make cuts :-/.
>
> Lets see if Doug or Jim or anyone else has some good insight as to
> what our options are here.
>
> -- leif
>
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Leif Hedstrom <le...@ogre.com>.
On 03/18/2010 09:43 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
> On 03/18/2010 04:34 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>> On 03/18/2010 09:11 AM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>>
>>> Ah, bummer, yeah, that disqualifies us immediately. Even if you look
>>> at "active committers", there are 6 Yahoos (including the two doc
>>> people) and only 4 non-Yahoo's.
>>
>> So, after talking with Anirban, he's willing to make some compromises
>> here to allow us to graduate. A couple of suggestions (depends on how
>> you define "active committers"):
>>
>> 1) We remove Yahoos from the membership to reduce the ratio to
>> exactly 50%.
>>
>
> Like said, IMHO this would not be fair.
>
> What I'm pleased of is that this community has proven that
> its not so hard to get the committership status.
Yeah, we have one more contributor that I fully expect will become a
committer in the next 3-6 months (assuming he keeps working with us). A
few other companies / people are showing interest too, but nothing near
term. I'll "prod" Dima, and see what the status is of his commits, but
even so, to reach the 50/50 restrictions, we would have to make cuts :-/.
Lets see if Doug or Jim or anyone else has some good insight as to what
our options are here.
-- leif
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
On Mar 26, 2010, at 10:47 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> On 03/26/2010 08:47 AM, jean-frederic clere wrote:
>>
>>> Seems we stalled on this "discussion" a little bit. What do we do next?
>>>
>> Well wait... Members meeting, Eastern holidays and the week after the
>> Apacheretreat and that also gives time to improve the diversity.
>>
>> The other option is to go on with the graduation and argue that a lot of
>> projects in ASF also have more 50% of the activity coming from one
>> company that is a non-issue.
>>
>
>
> Is the general consensus that we should postpone graduation until later? The additional diversity I can think of for the next few months would be adding Jason Giedymin as a committer. He will inevitably be voted in I think (he's extremely active), so I think we could be a little more lenient and vote him in sooner rather than later? :)
>
> in any, I think I'm OK with delaying graduation if necessary, but I'd like to ask for our mentors to keep up the activity / momentum we got going right now, particularly helpful is active participation in the votes here and on the IPMC. It has honestly been pretty rough getting important things voted on at times (particularly in the IPMC).
>
I see no reason to delay. Any possible reasons/rationale against it have
been discussed and dismissed.
> Also, did we get a final vote and decision on a PMC chair person?
I'm +1 for Leif. Never had any doubts or issues with that, despite
any clueless assertions from self-appointed experts to the contrary.
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@apache.org>.
On Mar 30, 2010, at 10:36 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
> On 03/30/2010 04:03 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>
>> On Mar 29, 2010, at 6:46 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/29/2010 10:07 AM, jean-frederic clere wrote:
>>>> On 03/27/2010 03:47 AM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, did we get a final vote and decision on a PMC chair person?
>>>>
>>>> According to Roy's comment on our we should go on with the graduation,
>>>> let's do it :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'd still like to hear Jim's opinion weather his diversity
>>> concern still stands, cause he was the one that suggested the
>>> PMC chair switch by one of the mentors.
>>> This all ended up with Roy declaring me as a thief and a liar,
>>> which really hurts :(
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim?
>>
>> Addressed in the "Changing PMC chair" thread.
>>
>
> Ack.
>
> So we are fine to proceed.
+1
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
On 03/30/2010 04:03 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>
> On Mar 29, 2010, at 6:46 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
>
>> On 03/29/2010 10:07 AM, jean-frederic clere wrote:
>>> On 03/27/2010 03:47 AM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Also, did we get a final vote and decision on a PMC chair person?
>>>
>>> According to Roy's comment on our we should go on with the graduation,
>>> let's do it :-)
>>>
>>
>> I'd still like to hear Jim's opinion weather his diversity
>> concern still stands, cause he was the one that suggested the
>> PMC chair switch by one of the mentors.
>> This all ended up with Roy declaring me as a thief and a liar,
>> which really hurts :(
>>
>>
>> Jim?
>
> Addressed in the "Changing PMC chair" thread.
>
Ack.
So we are fine to proceed.
Cheers
--
^TM
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com>.
On Mar 30, 2010, at 7:03 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> On Mar 29, 2010, at 6:46 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
>
>> On 03/29/2010 10:07 AM, jean-frederic clere wrote:
>>> On 03/27/2010 03:47 AM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Also, did we get a final vote and decision on a PMC chair person?
>>>
>>> According to Roy's comment on our we should go on with the graduation,
>>> let's do it :-)
>>>
>>
>> I'd still like to hear Jim's opinion weather his diversity
>> concern still stands, cause he was the one that suggested the
>> PMC chair switch by one of the mentors.
>> This all ended up with Roy declaring me as a thief and a liar,
>> which really hurts :(
>>
>>
>> Jim?
>
> Addressed in the "Changing PMC chair" thread.
>
> Synopsis: never had a concern regarding diversity (as noted
> numerous times), but offered a suggestion should the PPMC
> think it would be an issue that would prevent graduation.
> As far as what Roy blathered is concerned, ignore it. His
> points would be right on the mark if only the basis on which
> he crafted them, and the assumptions on which they were based,
> were founded in reality.
Yes, by all means, go ahead and blame it on me and my
crankiness as a new Dad. It is certainly far more convenient
than me trying to explain again why imposing a chair is contrary
to the goal of incubation for teaching a project how to govern itself.
....Roy
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
On Mar 29, 2010, at 6:46 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
> On 03/29/2010 10:07 AM, jean-frederic clere wrote:
>> On 03/27/2010 03:47 AM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>>
>>> Also, did we get a final vote and decision on a PMC chair person?
>>
>> According to Roy's comment on our we should go on with the graduation,
>> let's do it :-)
>>
>
> I'd still like to hear Jim's opinion weather his diversity
> concern still stands, cause he was the one that suggested the
> PMC chair switch by one of the mentors.
> This all ended up with Roy declaring me as a thief and a liar,
> which really hurts :(
>
>
> Jim?
Addressed in the "Changing PMC chair" thread.
Synopsis: never had a concern regarding diversity (as noted
numerous times), but offered a suggestion should the PPMC
think it would be an issue that would prevent graduation.
As far as what Roy blathered is concerned, ignore it. His
points would be right on the mark if only the basis on which
he crafted them, and the assumptions on which they were based,
were founded in reality.
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
On 03/29/2010 10:07 AM, jean-frederic clere wrote:
> On 03/27/2010 03:47 AM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>
>> Also, did we get a final vote and decision on a PMC chair person?
>
> According to Roy's comment on our we should go on with the graduation,
> let's do it :-)
>
I'd still like to hear Jim's opinion weather his diversity
concern still stands, cause he was the one that suggested the
PMC chair switch by one of the mentors.
This all ended up with Roy declaring me as a thief and a liar,
which really hurts :(
Jim?
Regards
--
^TM
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by jean-frederic clere <jf...@gmail.com>.
On 03/27/2010 03:47 AM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> On 03/26/2010 08:47 AM, jean-frederic clere wrote:
>>
>>> Seems we stalled on this "discussion" a little bit. What do we do next?
>>>
>> Well wait... Members meeting, Eastern holidays and the week after the
>> Apacheretreat and that also gives time to improve the diversity.
>>
>> The other option is to go on with the graduation and argue that a lot of
>> projects in ASF also have more 50% of the activity coming from one
>> company that is a non-issue.
>>
>
>
> Is the general consensus that we should postpone graduation until later?
> The additional diversity I can think of for the next few months would be
> adding Jason Giedymin as a committer. He will inevitably be voted in I
> think (he's extremely active), so I think we could be a little more
> lenient and vote him in sooner rather than later? :)
+1.
>
> in any, I think I'm OK with delaying graduation if necessary, but I'd
> like to ask for our mentors to keep up the activity / momentum we got
> going right now, particularly helpful is active participation in the
> votes here and on the IPMC. It has honestly been pretty rough getting
> important things voted on at times (particularly in the IPMC).
>
> Also, did we get a final vote and decision on a PMC chair person?
According to Roy's comment on our we should go on with the graduation,
let's do it :-)
Cheers
Jean-Frederic
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Leif Hedstrom <zw...@apache.org>.
On 03/26/2010 08:47 AM, jean-frederic clere wrote:
>
>> Seems we stalled on this "discussion" a little bit. What do we do next?
>>
> Well wait... Members meeting, Eastern holidays and the week after the
> Apacheretreat and that also gives time to improve the diversity.
>
> The other option is to go on with the graduation and argue that a lot of
> projects in ASF also have more 50% of the activity coming from one
> company that is a non-issue.
>
Is the general consensus that we should postpone graduation until later?
The additional diversity I can think of for the next few months would be
adding Jason Giedymin as a committer. He will inevitably be voted in I
think (he's extremely active), so I think we could be a little more
lenient and vote him in sooner rather than later? :)
in any, I think I'm OK with delaying graduation if necessary, but I'd
like to ask for our mentors to keep up the activity / momentum we got
going right now, particularly helpful is active participation in the
votes here and on the IPMC. It has honestly been pretty rough getting
important things voted on at times (particularly in the IPMC).
Also, did we get a final vote and decision on a PMC chair person?
Thanks,
-- leif
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by jean-frederic clere <jf...@gmail.com>.
On 03/25/2010 05:57 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> On 03/20/2010 09:35 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>> I whipped something together, and we now have the following
>> "statistics" available. I'll try to keep them updated at least weekly:
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/~zwoop/Mail-stats/
>> http://people.apache.org/~zwoop/IRC-stats/
>> http://people.apache.org/~zwoop/SVN-stats/
>>
>>
>> I've also added links for these to our incubator pages. The Mail stats
>> is in "development", I couldn't find anything good available, so I
>> took the layout from the IRC logs and created that page.
>>
>> I'm guessing we'll also need to publish a list of the Yahoo people
>> available somewhere as well, so people can verify who are Yahoos and
>> who are not?
>
> Seems we stalled on this "discussion" a little bit. What do we do next?
Well wait... Members meeting, Eastern holidays and the week after the
Apacheretreat and that also gives time to improve the diversity.
The other option is to go on with the graduation and argue that a lot of
projects in ASF also have more 50% of the activity coming from one
company that is a non-issue.
Cheers
Jean-Frederic
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Leif Hedstrom <zw...@apache.org>.
On 03/20/2010 09:35 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> I whipped something together, and we now have the following
> "statistics" available. I'll try to keep them updated at least weekly:
>
> http://people.apache.org/~zwoop/Mail-stats/
> http://people.apache.org/~zwoop/IRC-stats/
> http://people.apache.org/~zwoop/SVN-stats/
>
>
> I've also added links for these to our incubator pages. The Mail stats
> is in "development", I couldn't find anything good available, so I
> took the layout from the IRC logs and created that page.
>
> I'm guessing we'll also need to publish a list of the Yahoo people
> available somewhere as well, so people can verify who are Yahoos and
> who are not?
Seems we stalled on this "discussion" a little bit. What do we do next?
-- Leif
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Leif Hedstrom <zw...@apache.org>.
I whipped something together, and we now have the following "statistics"
available. I'll try to keep them updated at least weekly:
http://people.apache.org/~zwoop/Mail-stats/
http://people.apache.org/~zwoop/IRC-stats/
http://people.apache.org/~zwoop/SVN-stats/
I've also added links for these to our incubator pages. The Mail stats
is in "development", I couldn't find anything good available, so I took
the layout from the IRC logs and created that page.
I'm guessing we'll also need to publish a list of the Yahoo people
available somewhere as well, so people can verify who are Yahoos and who
are not?
Thanks,
-- leif
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Leif Hedstrom <zw...@apache.org>.
On 03/20/2010 04:12 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> (I'm moving the "discussions" about activity etc. back to this thread,
> I didn't mean to hijack the PMC chair vote thread the way I did, lets
> keep that one clean to make sure the vote progresses in a timely manner.)
>
> This is in response to Jean-Frederic: I'm working on figuring out some
> email stats, but below are the stats from the IRC chat room. Most of
> the names are obvious, but here's a deciphering key for a few:
I haven't had time to find any neat program to make stats on mbox files,
but below is a "count" on all From: addresses used in all email on
trafficserver-dev@ since we started incubation. This does include all
the Jira emails as well, since we do a lot of discussions on the Jira
tickets, I thought it was appropriate to keep those in this report.
Out of the top-25 here (including the "duplicates" due to Jira), there
are 13 Yahoos and 12 non-yahoos. That now includes a fair amount of Jira
emails for documentation (Miles and Diane), which the other SVN report
"excluded" (since the doc tree is not in the same SVN directory as the
source).
Thanks,
-- Leif
406 "Leif Hedstrom (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
247 "George Paul (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
186 "John Plevyak (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
97 "Bryan Call (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
80 Leif Hedstrom<zw...@apache.org>
70 "Jason Giedymin (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
55 John Plevyak<jp...@acm.org>
49 "Manjesh Nilange (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
33 "Miles Libbey (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
31 Bryan Call<bc...@yahoo-inc.com>
24 "Wendy Huang (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
24 "Steve Jiang (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
24 Leif Hedstrom<le...@ogre.com>
17 "Sean Cosgrave (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
17 Paul Querna<pa...@querna.org>
15 "Andrew Hsu (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
12 "Diane Smith (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
11 Mladen Turk<mt...@apache.org>
10 "Eric Balsa (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
10 "Belmon, Stephane"<sb...@websense.com>
9 Leif Hedstrom<le...@yahoo-inc.com>
8 "Paul Querna (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
8 Nick Kew<ni...@apache.org>
8 George Paul<ge...@apache.org>
7 John Scharber<jo...@ban.io>
7 Jim Jagielski<ji...@jaguNET.com>
6 "Zhao Yongming (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
6 "Raghav Jeyaraman (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
5 "Tom Melendez (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
5 Tin Zaw<tz...@yahoo.com>
5 "Stephane Belmon (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
5 "Geoff Greer (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
5 "Gavin (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
5 "Chintana Wilamuna (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
4 "vijaya bhaskar mamidi (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
4 Theo Schlossnagle<je...@omniti.com>
4 "Nick Kew (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
4 John Plevyak [mailto
4 Jason Giedymin<ja...@gmail.com>
4 George Paul<ge...@yahoo.com>
4 "Erik Eldridge (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
4 "D.J. Stachniak"<dj...@yahoo.com>
4 Andrew Hsu<an...@apache.org>
3 "Wenjing Huang (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
3 "Roy T. Fielding (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
3 "Nuno Fernandes (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
3 "Marcus Clyne (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
3 Leif Hedstrom [mailto
3 jean-frederic clere<jf...@gmail.com>
3 Jason<ja...@gmail.com>
3 Geoff Greer<ge...@greer.fm>
3 Eric Balsa<er...@apache.org>
3 Dossy Shiobara<do...@panoptic.com>
2 =?utf-8?Q?Micha=C5=82_Szklarzewicz_=28JIRA=29?=<ji...@apache.org>
2 Steve Jiang<sj...@apache.org>
2 "Photobucket Operations (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
2 "Mladen Turk (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
2 Miles Libbey<ml...@apache.org>
2 Miles Libbey<mi...@yahoo-inc.com>
2 "Manjesh Nilange"<ma...@yahoo-inc.com>
2 "Li Yu (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
2 "James Henderson (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
2 Eric Balsa<er...@ericbalsa.com>
2 Anirban Kundu<ak...@yahoo-inc.com>
2 "Anirban (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
1 =?UTF-8?B?5LqO5L2z5Y2O?=<fl...@gmail.com>
1 "Tsunayoshi Egawa (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
1 "Tin Zaw"<tz...@attinteractive.com>
1 "Roy T. Fielding"<fi...@gbiv.com>
1 "Qinghong Zhang (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
1 Niclas Hedhman<ni...@hedhman.org>
1 Miles Libbey<ml...@yahoo.com>
1 Marvin<ma...@apache.org>
1 Mark Nottingham<mn...@yahoo-inc.com>
1 "Manish (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
1 Leif Hedstrom [leif@ogre.com]
1 "J. Scott Evans"<js...@yahoo.com>
1 "John Scharber (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
1 John Plevyak<jp...@apache.org>
1 John Jason Brzozowski<jj...@gmail.com>
1 Jim Tosh<ji...@authentic8.com>
1 Jean-frederic Clere<jf...@gmail.com>
1 ios firefox<fi...@gmail.com>
1 Greg Stein<gs...@gmail.com>
1 George Paul<ge...@yahoo.com>
1 George Fawcett<gr...@gmail.com>
1 Erik Eldridge<el...@yahoo-inc.com>
1 Dossy Shiobara [mailto
1 "Dossy Shiobara (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
1 "Dima Ruban (JIRA)"<ji...@apache.org>
1 Dima Ruban<di...@yahoo-inc.com>
1 Belmon, Stephane [mailto
1 Andrus Adamchik<an...@objectstyle.org>
1 Andrew Hsu<an...@yahoo-inc.com>
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Leif Hedstrom <zw...@apache.org>.
(I'm moving the "discussions" about activity etc. back to this thread, I
didn't mean to hijack the PMC chair vote thread the way I did, lets keep
that one clean to make sure the vote progresses in a timely manner.)
This is in response to Jean-Frederic: I'm working on figuring out some
email stats, but below are the stats from the IRC chat room. Most of the
names are obvious, but here's a deciphering key for a few:
zwoop - Leif Hedstrom
jumby - Eric Balsa
http://people.apache.org/~zwoop/IRC-stats.html
I guess in pure "yacking numbers", it looks bad, but of the active
top-20, only 3 people are Yahoos (me, Bryan and Andrew). Note that the
'stats' in this page are a bit hacky, there was no Pisg parser for the
client I use, so I had to hack up something "basic".
I'll send another message when I have some mailing list statistics as well.
Thanks,
-- leif
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Leif Hedstrom <zw...@apache.org>.
On 03/18/2010 03:48 PM, Nick Kew wrote:
>
>> 2) We keep the bare minimum Yahoo members (we'd have to decide who, but most likely only 2 people would stay), and then proceed with the incubation process, and the Yahoos who wish to come back will go through the normal process.
>>
> There might be mileage in going through all initial committers to evaluate who among them
> has been making significant contributions, just to identify whether there's someone at Yahoo
> who was formerly active on the project but has moved on. But it would be perverse to drop
> active folks just to meet some formal hurdle.
>
> FWIW, I was concerned about (low) diversity, but our chat yesterday reassured me when
> you identified some of the most active contributors as non-yahoos.
>
That's been my assumption too, I felt we'd built a very active and
diverse community, but apparently not so. I followed the guidelines at
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#community
which does not specify any requirements for 50% etc., I'm not sure how
or why there are two different graduation guidelines, the other being
the Wiki page Mladen showed, which I hadn't seen until now (and I
apologize for that).
For those who haven't looked at the "contributions" statistics, I'd say
it's fair to say that >50% of all contributions are from non-yahoo
employeed people, and this the the documentation changes (which is 100%
yahoo). Taking documentation out of the equation, the ratio is much higher.
What is skewed is the ratio of Yahoo committers and PMC members, which I
think we are willing to eliminate. I'm just not sure how to do that
fairly... :/
>> As for option #2, the Yahoo people would decide together who should stay,
>>
> That would be a backward step too. Decisions happen on-list at apache.
>
Agreed. I think in this very special case, so if it comes to stepping
down, it ought to be up to us to decide who has to do it? I'd obviously
volunteer and step down here, to let the project progress, and I think
several of us are willing to do the same, to get the ratio of Y! vs
non-yahoo down.
I heard there might be a third option in the makings with a different
PMC chair, which I of course won't oppose. My concern would be how that
solution affects the community as a whole, but that is obviously up to
the community to decide. And whatever we decide, I'll support.
Thanks,
-- leif
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Nick Kew <ni...@apache.org>.
On 18 Mar 2010, at 17:18, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> Two more suggestions, that are somewhat more fair:
>
> 1) We pull all Yahoos from the PMC / committers list, and proceed with graduation without us. Those of us who want to come back will go through the normal process of becoming committers / PMC members.
-1. 'nuff said. However:
> 2) We keep the bare minimum Yahoo members (we'd have to decide who, but most likely only 2 people would stay), and then proceed with the incubation process, and the Yahoos who wish to come back will go through the normal process.
There might be mileage in going through all initial committers to evaluate who among them
has been making significant contributions, just to identify whether there's someone at Yahoo
who was formerly active on the project but has moved on. But it would be perverse to drop
active folks just to meet some formal hurdle.
FWIW, I was concerned about (low) diversity, but our chat yesterday reassured me when
you identified some of the most active contributors as non-yahoos.
> As for option #2, the Yahoo people would decide together who should stay,
That would be a backward step too. Decisions happen on-list at apache.
--
Nick Kew
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by George Paul <ge...@apache.org>.
Looking at the following contribution page
https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ConfigureReport.jspa?versionId=-1&issueStatus=all&selectedProjectId=12310963&reportKey=com.sourcelabs.jira.plugin.report.contributions%3Acontributionreport&Next=Next
Quite a bit of the contribution during incubation to the project has
been external even though the committers list has one org providing >50%
of the membership. If the rule is formal vs informal is it possible to
get an exemption?
cheers,
-George
On 3/18/10 10:18 AM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> On 03/18/2010 09:43 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
>> On 03/18/2010 04:34 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>> On 03/18/2010 09:11 AM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ah, bummer, yeah, that disqualifies us immediately. Even if you look
>>>> at "active committers", there are 6 Yahoos (including the two doc
>>>> people) and only 4 non-Yahoo's.
>>>
>>> So, after talking with Anirban, he's willing to make some compromises
>>> here to allow us to graduate. A couple of suggestions (depends on how
>>> you define "active committers"):
>>>
>>> 1) We remove Yahoos from the membership to reduce the ratio to
>>> exactly 50%.
>>>
>>
>> Like said, IMHO this would not be fair.
>
>
> Two more suggestions, that are somewhat more fair:
>
> 1) We pull all Yahoos from the PMC / committers list, and proceed with
> graduation without us. Those of us who want to come back will go through
> the normal process of becoming committers / PMC members.
>
> 2) We keep the bare minimum Yahoo members (we'd have to decide who, but
> most likely only 2 people would stay), and then proceed with the
> incubation process, and the Yahoos who wish to come back will go through
> the normal process.
>
>
> As for option #2, the Yahoo people would decide together who should
> stay, but the idea to keep it at a bare minimum is to make is as little
> unfair as possible, while still have enough to form a graduated PMC.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -- leif
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Leif Hedstrom <zw...@apache.org>.
On 03/18/2010 09:43 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
> On 03/18/2010 04:34 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>> On 03/18/2010 09:11 AM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>>
>>> Ah, bummer, yeah, that disqualifies us immediately. Even if you look
>>> at "active committers", there are 6 Yahoos (including the two doc
>>> people) and only 4 non-Yahoo's.
>>
>> So, after talking with Anirban, he's willing to make some compromises
>> here to allow us to graduate. A couple of suggestions (depends on how
>> you define "active committers"):
>>
>> 1) We remove Yahoos from the membership to reduce the ratio to
>> exactly 50%.
>>
>
> Like said, IMHO this would not be fair.
Two more suggestions, that are somewhat more fair:
1) We pull all Yahoos from the PMC / committers list, and proceed with
graduation without us. Those of us who want to come back will go through
the normal process of becoming committers / PMC members.
2) We keep the bare minimum Yahoo members (we'd have to decide who, but
most likely only 2 people would stay), and then proceed with the
incubation process, and the Yahoos who wish to come back will go through
the normal process.
As for option #2, the Yahoo people would decide together who should
stay, but the idea to keep it at a bare minimum is to make is as little
unfair as possible, while still have enough to form a graduated PMC.
Thoughts?
-- leif
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
On 03/18/2010 04:34 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> On 03/18/2010 09:11 AM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>
>> Ah, bummer, yeah, that disqualifies us immediately. Even if you look
>> at "active committers", there are 6 Yahoos (including the two doc
>> people) and only 4 non-Yahoo's.
>
> So, after talking with Anirban, he's willing to make some compromises
> here to allow us to graduate. A couple of suggestions (depends on how
> you define "active committers"):
>
> 1) We remove Yahoos from the membership to reduce the ratio to exactly 50%.
>
Like said, IMHO this would not be fair.
What I'm pleased of is that this community has proven that
its not so hard to get the committership status.
Being such a complex project, it's not easy to find
one either. Whether those facts will be enough to
satisfy the community diversity requirement not sure.
Lets wait a bit and perhaps someone will have the
right answer or solution.
Regards
--
^TM
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Leif Hedstrom <zw...@apache.org>.
On 03/18/2010 09:11 AM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>
> Ah, bummer, yeah, that disqualifies us immediately. Even if you look
> at "active committers", there are 6 Yahoos (including the two doc
> people) and only 4 non-Yahoo's.
So, after talking with Anirban, he's willing to make some compromises
here to allow us to graduate. A couple of suggestions (depends on how
you define "active committers"):
1) We remove Yahoos from the membership to reduce the ratio to exactly 50%.
2) If allowed, we keep people from Yahoo on the PMC list, but mark them
as "inactive" in the committers list.
Neither is particularly attractive to me. If I count Mladen Turk as
active (since he has contributed several patches etc.), and possibly
Dima Ruban as active (he has changes that he's made, but not committed
yet), we have at the most 6 but probably only 5 active non-yahoo
committers. So, we'd have to remove 4 or 5 Yahoos from the list.
One suggestion would be to reduce the number of docs committers to one,
and then we could reduce the active Yahoos to 5 a little easier. This
seems really unfair to me, since both Miles and Diane has done a
tremendous job doing documentation, and we have no reason to think that
anyone in the community outside of Yahoo would do such documentation
work any time soon.
There are no contributors at this point that would be "ready" to become
committers.
I'm open for ideas here.
-- Leif
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Leif Hedstrom <zw...@apache.org>.
On 03/18/2010 09:04 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
> On 03/18/2010 03:35 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>
>> Can all the people who are no Yahoo's let me know which company
>> affiliation(s) they have? I had no idea we had to track what company
>> contributors / PMC members work for, that honestly seems a little bit
>> odd to me, but if it's the "way", I'm fine with it. I'd assume this is
>> "voluntary" information though, or is it required for every member to
>> disclose any and all company affiliations?
>>
>
> Found it:
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ExitingIncubator
>
> "No single organization supplies more than 50% of
> the active committers (must be at least 3 independent committers)"
Ah, bummer, yeah, that disqualifies us immediately. Even if you look at
"active committers", there are 6 Yahoos (including the two doc people)
and only 4 non-Yahoo's.
Sounds like we can't graduate any time soon.
-- leif
Here's the current PMC list that I got:
* Andrew Hsu <an...@apache.org> [Yahoo!]
* Anirban Kundu <ak...@apache.org> [Yahoo!]
* Bryan Call <bc...@apache.org> [Yahoo!]
* Diane Smith <di...@apache.org> [Yahoo!]
* Eric Balsa <er...@apache.org> [RDN, Inc]
* George Paul <ge...@apache.org> [Xcel Labs]
* Jim Jagielski <ji...@apache.org> [VMWare]
* John Plevyak <jp...@apache.org> [independent contractor]
* Leif Hedstrom <zw...@apache.org> [Yahoo!]
* Manjesh Nilange <ma...@apache.org> [Yahoo!]
* Miles Libbey <ml...@apache.org> [Yahoo!]
* Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org> [RedHat]
* Paul Querna <pq...@apache.org> [CloudKick]
* Ray Rivera <ra...@apache.org> [Yahoo!]
* Steve Jiang <sj...@apache.org> [Yahoo!]
* Vijaya Bhaskar Mamidi <vm...@apache.org> [Yahoo!]
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com>.
On Mar 18, 2010, at 8:04 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
> On 03/18/2010 03:35 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>
>> Can all the people who are no Yahoo's let me know which company
>> affiliation(s) they have? I had no idea we had to track what company
>> contributors / PMC members work for, that honestly seems a little bit
>> odd to me, but if it's the "way", I'm fine with it. I'd assume this is
>> "voluntary" information though, or is it required for every member to
>> disclose any and all company affiliations?
>>
>
> Found it:
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ExitingIncubator
>
> "No single organization supplies more than 50% of
> the active committers (must be at least 3 independent committers)"
WTF? That is an ancient wiki page created as a proposal in 2003
and long since forgotten by the incubator. Ignore it (or delete it).
> So this implies you'll need some knowledge on the affiliation.
> I'm more concerned about the 50% rule, since there are
> at least 4 PMC members with different affiliation.
There is no %50 rule. The only thing that matters is how the
project is being run (on the dev list), and the only diversity
requirement is that the PMC actively seeks diversity (not that
any fixed quota be achieved prior to graduation).
....Roy
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
On 03/18/2010 03:35 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>
> Can all the people who are no Yahoo's let me know which company
> affiliation(s) they have? I had no idea we had to track what company
> contributors / PMC members work for, that honestly seems a little bit
> odd to me, but if it's the "way", I'm fine with it. I'd assume this is
> "voluntary" information though, or is it required for every member to
> disclose any and all company affiliations?
>
Found it:
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ExitingIncubator
"No single organization supplies more than 50% of
the active committers (must be at least 3 independent committers)"
So this implies you'll need some knowledge on the affiliation.
I'm more concerned about the 50% rule, since there are
at least 4 PMC members with different affiliation.
Regards
--
^TM
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Leif Hedstrom <le...@ogre.com>.
On 03/18/2010 08:16 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
>
>>>> The only thing I think would be useful to discuss is the diversity
>>>> requirement...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right, didn't found that info. Perhaps a company affiliation next to
>>> the members list
>>
>> Definitely, here is the current PMC list:
>>
>
>
> Not quite correct. Suppose you should ask
> the one noted as independent about their company affiliation.
> I know that Jim works for VMware and I'm with Red Hat.
Can all the people who are no Yahoo's let me know which company
affiliation(s) they have? I had no idea we had to track what company
contributors / PMC members work for, that honestly seems a little bit
odd to me, but if it's the "way", I'm fine with it. I'd assume this is
"voluntary" information though, or is it required for every member to
disclose any and all company affiliations?
Cheers,
-- Leif
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
On 03/18/2010 03:04 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> On 03/18/2010 06:37 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
>> On 03/18/2010 01:32 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>> The only thing I think would be useful to discuss is the diversity
>>> requirement...
>>>
>>
>> Right, didn't found that info. Perhaps a company affiliation next to
>> the members list
>
> Definitely, here is the current PMC list:
>
Not quite correct. Suppose you should ask
the one noted as independent about their company affiliation.
I know that Jim works for VMware and I'm with Red Hat.
Regards
--
^TM
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Leif Hedstrom <zw...@apache.org>.
On 03/18/2010 06:37 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
> On 03/18/2010 01:32 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> The only thing I think would be useful to discuss is the diversity
>> requirement...
>>
>
> Right, didn't found that info. Perhaps a company affiliation next to
> the members list
Definitely, here is the current PMC list:
* Andrew Hsu <an...@apache.org> Yahoo
* Anirban Kundu <ak...@apache.org> Yahoo
* Bryan Call <bc...@apache.org> Yahoo
* Diane Smith <di...@apache.org> Yahoo
* Diane Smith <di...@apache.org> Yahoo
* Eric Balsa <er...@apache.org> independent
* George Paul <ge...@apache.org> independent
* Jim Jagielski <ji...@apache.org> independent
* John Plevyak <jp...@apache.org> independent
* Leif Hedstrom <zw...@apache.org> Yahoo
* Manjesh Nilange <ma...@apache.org> Yahoo
* Miles Libbey <ml...@apache.org> Yahoo
* Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org> independent
* Paul Querna <pq...@apache.org> independent/CloudKick
* Ray Rivera <ra...@apache.org> Yahoo
* Steve Jiang <sj...@apache.org> Yahoo
* Vijaya Bhaskar Mamidi <vm...@apache.org> Yahoo
Diane and Miles are primarily working on documentation, we've had no
"luck" getting outside volunteers for that so far. In addition, Dima
Ruban, one of the initial committers, and a non-Yahoo, has expressed
interest to stay as a committer, but not a PMC member.
Looking at "recent" activity, John, George, Eric, Paul, Bryan, Steve,
Manjesh and me are the most active. Meaning, the active "community" is
at least 50% non-yahoo at this point, and on IRC, it's even more
non-yahoo centric (and I think we'll have at least a couple more
non-Yahoo committers in the next 6 months).
I don't know how diverse the community has to be, but I definitely don't
feel that this is a "Yahoo project", it really has become an Apache
community project.
Thanks!
-- Leif
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
On 03/18/2010 01:32 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> The only thing I think would be useful to discuss is the diversity
> requirement...
>
Right, didn't found that info. Perhaps a company affiliation next to
the members list
Regards
--
^TM
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
The only thing I think would be useful to discuss is the diversity
requirement...
On Mar 15, 2010, at 3:17 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'd like to open up the discussion around our graduation. In particular, I'd like to ask for our Mentors to let us know if there are any remaining issues that we need to resolve before we can graduate? Or if anyone else has any issues or concerns about graduation, please discuss here.
>
> For more details about the graduation process, please see
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
>
>
> (NOTE: This is not a vote, yet!!!)
>
> Thanks,
>
> -- leif
>
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Leif Hedstrom <le...@ogre.com>.
On 03/17/2010 10:27 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
> On 03/17/2010 05:14 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>> On 03/15/2010 01:17 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>>
>>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
>>
>> I haven't heard anything here, can I assume the silence means all
>> mentors are OK with us starting the graduation process?
>>
>
> Well, it would be nice to create a simple temporary GRADUATION.status
> or something somewhere in the svn with each item notified as
> [X] solved or with link to the required data.
Isn't that what
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/trafficserver.html
is supposed to be for? I've tried to keep it up-to-date as we progress,
but I might have missed something? If you prefer a GRADUATION.status
file in SVN, I can certainly do that, not sure what to put in there
though so would need some assistance :).
Thanks!
-- Leif
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Leif Hedstrom <zw...@apache.org>.
On 03/17/2010 11:44 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
> On 03/17/2010 06:32 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>> I wanted to make sure we're "ready to go" from the
>> Mentors first, before we actually start the voting process.
>>
>
Attached below is the proposed Resolution text. Please let me know what
needs to be changed or added. In particular, if any of the names or
email addresses are wrong, or outright missing, let me know asap. I'm
still waiting for some responses for who are staying with us after
graduation, so the PMC list will still change.
Thanks!
-- leif
X. Establish the Apache Traffic Server Project
WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
open-source software related to proxying and caching of HTTP
and other related network services for distribution at no
charge to the public.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Traffic Server Project",
be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
Foundation; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Traffic Server Project be and hereby is
responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
related to proxying and caching of HTTP and other related network
services and be it further
RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Traffic Server be
and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
of the Apache Traffic Server Project, and to have primary responsibility
for management of the projects within the scope of
responsibility of the Apache Traffic Server Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
Apache Traffic Server Project:
* Andrew Hsu<an...@apache.org>
* Anirban Kundu<ak...@apache.org>
* Bryan Call<bc...@apache.org>
* Diane Smith<di...@apache.org>
* Eric Balsa<er...@apache.org>
* George Paul<ge...@apache.org>
* John Plevyak<jp...@apache.org>
* Leif Hedstrom<zw...@apache.org>
* Manjesh Nilange<ma...@apache.org>
* Miles Libbey<ml...@apache.org>
* Mladen Turk<mt...@apache.org>
* Paul Querna<pq...@apache.org>
* Ray Rivera<ra...@apache.org>
* Steve Jiang<sj...@apache.org>
* Vijaya Bhaskar Mamidi<vm...@apache.org>
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Leif Hedstrom
be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Traffic Server, to
serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the
Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Traffic Server PMC be and hereby is
tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
encourage open development and increased participation in the
Apache Traffic Server Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Traffic Server Project be and hereby
is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
Incubator Traffic Server podling; and be it further
RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
Incubator Traffic Server podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
Project are hereafter discharged.
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
On 03/17/2010 06:32 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> I wanted to make sure we're "ready to go" from the
> Mentors first, before we actually start the voting process.
>
Unless I'm not seeing something so obvious,
think we are fine to proceed.
> Let me get that prepared for the discussion as well, I'll have it ready
> later today.
>
Cool.
Regards
--
^TM
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Leif Hedstrom <le...@ogre.com>.
On 03/17/2010 11:21 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
> On 03/17/2010 05:58 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>> On 03/17/2010 10:27 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
>>
>> Also, I should point out this
>>
>> http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html
>>
>>
>> According to this, we have a "check mark" for every required item (as
>> far as I can tell).
>>
>
> Sure, that fine. However dunno if the board will
> accept the: "Hey guys, here are the links" approach :)
>
> I was thinking more to the working Charter document,
> but this can probably wait.
Yeah, I was going to prepare the Charter/Resolution document proposal
before the vote (we've already 'solved' a bunch of that), there is a
template for this.. I wanted to make sure we're "ready to go" from the
Mentors first, before we actually start the voting process.
Let me get that prepared for the discussion as well, I'll have it ready
later today.
> However IMHO its should be there before graduation vote,
> since this will be actually the document to vote for.
Fair enough.
-- leif
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
On 03/17/2010 05:58 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> On 03/17/2010 10:27 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
>
> Also, I should point out this
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html
>
>
> According to this, we have a "check mark" for every required item (as
> far as I can tell).
>
Sure, that fine. However dunno if the board will
accept the: "Hey guys, here are the links" approach :)
I was thinking more to the working Charter document,
but this can probably wait.
However IMHO its should be there before graduation vote,
since this will be actually the document to vote for.
Regards
--
^TM
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Leif Hedstrom <le...@ogre.com>.
On 03/17/2010 10:27 AM, Mladen Turk wrote:
> On 03/17/2010 05:14 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>> On 03/15/2010 01:17 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>>
>>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
>>
>> I haven't heard anything here, can I assume the silence means all
>> mentors are OK with us starting the graduation process?
>>
>
> Well, it would be nice to create a simple temporary GRADUATION.status
> or something somewhere in the svn with each item notified as
> [X] solved or with link to the required data.
Also, I should point out this
http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html
According to this, we have a "check mark" for every required item (as
far as I can tell).
-- leif
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>.
On 03/17/2010 05:14 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> On 03/15/2010 01:17 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
>>
>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
>
> I haven't heard anything here, can I assume the silence means all
> mentors are OK with us starting the graduation process?
>
Well, it would be nice to create a simple temporary GRADUATION.status
or something somewhere in the svn with each item notified as
[X] solved or with link to the required data.
It would simplify the review.
I'm currently trying to check the complete source codebase
and docs for eventual left overs (just in case :)
Regards
--
^TM
Re: [discuss] Graduation?
Posted by Leif Hedstrom <zw...@apache.org>.
On 03/15/2010 01:17 PM, Leif Hedstrom wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'd like to open up the discussion around our graduation. In
> particular, I'd like to ask for our Mentors to let us know if there
> are any remaining issues that we need to resolve before we can
> graduate? Or if anyone else has any issues or concerns about
> graduation, please discuss here.
>
> For more details about the graduation process, please see
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
I haven't heard anything here, can I assume the silence means all
mentors are OK with us starting the graduation process?
Cheers,
-- leif