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Posted to users@spamassassin.apache.org by Sebastian Arcus <s....@open-t.co.uk> on 2017/09/19 06:25:02 UTC

OT - Hotmail/Outlook.com marking most of our email as Junk

This is a bit off topic as it is not directly related to SA, but I'm 
hoping that with the email and spam expertise on this group, someone 
might throw in a useful idea - which would be much appreciated.

I have this problem on one site where most emails we send to 
Hotmail/Outlook.com/Live.com email addresses end up in Junk at the 
recipient's end. Things I have tried:

1. I've setup SPF, DKIM, DMARC (and set it to 'reject').

2. We used to smart relay outbound email through the hosting provider 
(1and1), but now changed to send directly from our own IP address, so 
that we can control the reputation of the sending IP - no change.

3. I've checked our public IP and the domain name at mxtoolbox.com - all 
tests pass (the public IP has been delisted from the Spamhaus 
non-MX/end-user IP database).

4. I've setup forward and reverse DNS entries for our IP address.

5. I've checked with all DNS blocklists/blacklists I could find - our 
domain or IP address is not flagged up anywhere.

6. This is a small network which I've been managing for years - the 
domain name has not been used to send marketing/lists email of any sort 
- so the historic reputation should be fine.

7. I've setup a monitor and block on port 25 outbound on the network 
firewall - in case there is a trojan on a machine on the network sending 
out spam and ruining the reputation of our IP - it's never been triggered.

8. I've checked the contents of outgoing emails - this is an accountants 
practice - the email content is standard, there is nothing there which 
should trigger bayesian filters.

9. I've sent emails to other servers under my control running SA - the 
scores come out perfect at the receiving end.

10. The emails we send are operational and notices emails to customers - 
who need them. They call on the phone and complain they haven't received 
them - just to discover they were sent, but ended up in the junk.

11. Emails we send to any other domains are never a problem spam-wise.

I can't really think of anything else to try - have I missed anything? 
Are Hotmail/Outlook.com spam filters a complete lottery?

Re: OT - Hotmail/Outlook.com marking most of our email as Junk

Posted by Rupert Gallagher <ru...@protonmail.com>.
Allow incoming to postmaster@ and abuse@.

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 8:25 AM, Sebastian Arcus <s....@open-t.co.uk> wrote:

> This is a bit off topic as it is not directly related to SA, but I'm hoping that with the email and spam expertise on this group, someone might throw in a useful idea - which would be much appreciated. I have this problem on one site where most emails we send to Hotmail/Outlook.com/Live.com email addresses end up in Junk at the recipient's end. Things I have tried: 1. I've setup SPF, DKIM, DMARC (and set it to 'reject'). 2. We used to smart relay outbound email through the hosting provider (1and1), but now changed to send directly from our own IP address, so that we can control the reputation of the sending IP - no change. 3. I've checked our public IP and the domain name at mxtoolbox.com - all tests pass (the public IP has been delisted from the Spamhaus non-MX/end-user IP database). 4. I've setup forward and reverse DNS entries for our IP address. 5. I've checked with all DNS blocklists/blacklists I could find - our domain or IP address is not flagged up anywhere. 6. This is a small network which I've been managing for years - the domain name has not been used to send marketing/lists email of any sort - so the historic reputation should be fine. 7. I've setup a monitor and block on port 25 outbound on the network firewall - in case there is a trojan on a machine on the network sending out spam and ruining the reputation of our IP - it's never been triggered. 8. I've checked the contents of outgoing emails - this is an accountants practice - the email content is standard, there is nothing there which should trigger bayesian filters. 9. I've sent emails to other servers under my control running SA - the scores come out perfect at the receiving end. 10. The emails we send are operational and notices emails to customers - who need them. They call on the phone and complain they haven't received them - just to discover they were sent, but ended up in the junk. 11. Emails we send to any other domains are never a problem spam-wise. I can't really think of anything else to try - have I missed anything? Are Hotmail/Outlook.com spam filters a complete lottery?

Re: OT - Hotmail/Outlook.com marking most of our email as Junk

Posted by David B Funk <db...@engineering.uiowa.edu>.
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017, Rupert Gallagher wrote:

> > 10. The emails we send are operational and notices emails to customers - 
> who need them. They call on the phone and complain they haven't received 
> them - just to discover they were sent, but ended up in the junk. 
> 
> Tell them to send you a copy of the header, then look for clues in their anti-spam report. 

Good luck with that.
Have you ever seen the kind of stuff that M$ adds to 
Hotmail/Outlook.com/Office365 etc.. messages?

Then when you try to track down any info on how to iterpret the dense pile of 
stuff in a 'x-forefront-antispam-report' header you run into this page:
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn205071(v=exchg.150).aspx

Note the paragraph:

  After accessing the message header information, search for
  X-Forefront-Antispam-Report and then look for these fields. Other fields in
  this header are used exclusively by the Microsoft anti-spam team for diagnostic
  purposes.

IE, we're not tellin..

Having been in the same situation as the OP (Done the full Monty monkey dance, 
MX, DKIM, SPF, abuse@, etc) the only thing that I can say is it's all VouDoo.


-- 
Dave Funk                                  University of Iowa
<dbfunk (at) engineering.uiowa.edu>        College of Engineering
319/335-5751   FAX: 319/384-0549           1256 Seamans Center
Sys_admin/Postmaster/cell_admin            Iowa City, IA 52242-1527
#include <std_disclaimer.h>
Better is not better, 'standard' is better. B{

Re: OT - Hotmail/Outlook.com marking most of our email as Junk

Posted by Rupert Gallagher <ru...@protonmail.com>.
> 10. The emails we send are operational and notices emails to customers -
who need them. They call on the phone and complain they haven't received
them - just to discover they were sent, but ended up in the junk.

Tell them to send you a copy of the header, then look for clues in their anti-spam report.

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

Re: OT - Hotmail/Outlook.com marking most of our email as Junk

Posted by Sebastian Arcus <s....@open-t.co.uk>.
On 19/09/17 17:17, Jerry Malcolm wrote:
> My recommendation as a first step is to go to mail-tester.com. They will 
> tell you to send an email to a temp email address, and they will analyze 
> and grade your email as to 'spamy-ness'. Outlook, gmail, etc were 
> flagging a lot of my emails.  After I finally fixed everything and got 
> mail-tester.com to give me a perfect score, I haven't had any problem 
> with getting flagged.

Hi - and thanks for the suggestion. I've tried in the past another 
similar service - and now I've tried mail-tester.com - it returned a 
score of 10/10



> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> On 9/19/2017 1:44 AM, G Roach wrote:
>> Microsoft use their own methods of detection including based on 
>> reputation and 'length of service' - ie, if you have only just started 
>> sending emails out from your own address (which you have) then they 
>> may well consider you suspicious. Theres not much yo can do about it. 
>>   More info here: https://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19/09/2017 07:25, Sebastian Arcus wrote:
>>> This is a bit off topic as it is not directly related to SA, but I'm 
>>> hoping that with the email and spam expertise on this group, someone 
>>> might throw in a useful idea - which would be much appreciated.
>>>
>>> I have this problem on one site where most emails we send to 
>>> Hotmail/Outlook.com/Live.com email addresses end up in Junk at the 
>>> recipient's end. Things I have tried:
>>>
>>> 1. I've setup SPF, DKIM, DMARC (and set it to 'reject').
>>>
>>> 2. We used to smart relay outbound email through the hosting provider 
>>> (1and1), but now changed to send directly from our own IP address, so 
>>> that we can control the reputation of the sending IP - no change.
>>>
>>> 3. I've checked our public IP and the domain name at mxtoolbox.com - 
>>> all tests pass (the public IP has been delisted from the Spamhaus 
>>> non-MX/end-user IP database).
>>>
>>> 4. I've setup forward and reverse DNS entries for our IP address.
>>>
>>> 5. I've checked with all DNS blocklists/blacklists I could find - our 
>>> domain or IP address is not flagged up anywhere.
>>>
>>> 6. This is a small network which I've been managing for years - the 
>>> domain name has not been used to send marketing/lists email of any 
>>> sort - so the historic reputation should be fine.
>>>
>>> 7. I've setup a monitor and block on port 25 outbound on the network 
>>> firewall - in case there is a trojan on a machine on the network 
>>> sending out spam and ruining the reputation of our IP - it's never 
>>> been triggered.
>>>
>>> 8. I've checked the contents of outgoing emails - this is an 
>>> accountants practice - the email content is standard, there is 
>>> nothing there which should trigger bayesian filters.
>>>
>>> 9. I've sent emails to other servers under my control running SA - 
>>> the scores come out perfect at the receiving end.
>>>
>>> 10. The emails we send are operational and notices emails to 
>>> customers - who need them. They call on the phone and complain they 
>>> haven't received them - just to discover they were sent, but ended up 
>>> in the junk.
>>>
>>> 11. Emails we send to any other domains are never a problem spam-wise.
>>>
>>> I can't really think of anything else to try - have I missed 
>>> anything? Are Hotmail/Outlook.com spam filters a complete lottery?
>>
> 

Re: OT - Hotmail/Outlook.com marking most of our email as Junk

Posted by Jerry Malcolm <te...@malcolms.com>.
My recommendation as a first step is to go to mail-tester.com. They will 
tell you to send an email to a temp email address, and they will analyze 
and grade your email as to 'spamy-ness'. Outlook, gmail, etc were 
flagging a lot of my emails.  After I finally fixed everything and got 
mail-tester.com to give me a perfect score, I haven't had any problem 
with getting flagged.

Jerry


On 9/19/2017 1:44 AM, G Roach wrote:
> Microsoft use their own methods of detection including based on 
> reputation and 'length of service' - ie, if you have only just started 
> sending emails out from your own address (which you have) then they 
> may well consider you suspicious. Theres not much yo can do about it. 
>   More info here: https://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx
>
>
>
> On 19/09/2017 07:25, Sebastian Arcus wrote:
>> This is a bit off topic as it is not directly related to SA, but I'm 
>> hoping that with the email and spam expertise on this group, someone 
>> might throw in a useful idea - which would be much appreciated.
>>
>> I have this problem on one site where most emails we send to 
>> Hotmail/Outlook.com/Live.com email addresses end up in Junk at the 
>> recipient's end. Things I have tried:
>>
>> 1. I've setup SPF, DKIM, DMARC (and set it to 'reject').
>>
>> 2. We used to smart relay outbound email through the hosting provider 
>> (1and1), but now changed to send directly from our own IP address, so 
>> that we can control the reputation of the sending IP - no change.
>>
>> 3. I've checked our public IP and the domain name at mxtoolbox.com - 
>> all tests pass (the public IP has been delisted from the Spamhaus 
>> non-MX/end-user IP database).
>>
>> 4. I've setup forward and reverse DNS entries for our IP address.
>>
>> 5. I've checked with all DNS blocklists/blacklists I could find - our 
>> domain or IP address is not flagged up anywhere.
>>
>> 6. This is a small network which I've been managing for years - the 
>> domain name has not been used to send marketing/lists email of any 
>> sort - so the historic reputation should be fine.
>>
>> 7. I've setup a monitor and block on port 25 outbound on the network 
>> firewall - in case there is a trojan on a machine on the network 
>> sending out spam and ruining the reputation of our IP - it's never 
>> been triggered.
>>
>> 8. I've checked the contents of outgoing emails - this is an 
>> accountants practice - the email content is standard, there is 
>> nothing there which should trigger bayesian filters.
>>
>> 9. I've sent emails to other servers under my control running SA - 
>> the scores come out perfect at the receiving end.
>>
>> 10. The emails we send are operational and notices emails to 
>> customers - who need them. They call on the phone and complain they 
>> haven't received them - just to discover they were sent, but ended up 
>> in the junk.
>>
>> 11. Emails we send to any other domains are never a problem spam-wise.
>>
>> I can't really think of anything else to try - have I missed 
>> anything? Are Hotmail/Outlook.com spam filters a complete lottery?
>


Re: OT - Hotmail/Outlook.com marking most of our email as Junk

Posted by G Roach <gr...@yahoo.com>.
Microsoft use their own methods of detection including based on 
reputation and 'length of service' - ie, if you have only just started 
sending emails out from your own address (which you have) then they may 
well consider you suspicious. Theres not much yo can do about it.   More 
info here: https://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx



On 19/09/2017 07:25, Sebastian Arcus wrote:
> This is a bit off topic as it is not directly related to SA, but I'm 
> hoping that with the email and spam expertise on this group, someone 
> might throw in a useful idea - which would be much appreciated.
>
> I have this problem on one site where most emails we send to 
> Hotmail/Outlook.com/Live.com email addresses end up in Junk at the 
> recipient's end. Things I have tried:
>
> 1. I've setup SPF, DKIM, DMARC (and set it to 'reject').
>
> 2. We used to smart relay outbound email through the hosting provider 
> (1and1), but now changed to send directly from our own IP address, so 
> that we can control the reputation of the sending IP - no change.
>
> 3. I've checked our public IP and the domain name at mxtoolbox.com - 
> all tests pass (the public IP has been delisted from the Spamhaus 
> non-MX/end-user IP database).
>
> 4. I've setup forward and reverse DNS entries for our IP address.
>
> 5. I've checked with all DNS blocklists/blacklists I could find - our 
> domain or IP address is not flagged up anywhere.
>
> 6. This is a small network which I've been managing for years - the 
> domain name has not been used to send marketing/lists email of any 
> sort - so the historic reputation should be fine.
>
> 7. I've setup a monitor and block on port 25 outbound on the network 
> firewall - in case there is a trojan on a machine on the network 
> sending out spam and ruining the reputation of our IP - it's never 
> been triggered.
>
> 8. I've checked the contents of outgoing emails - this is an 
> accountants practice - the email content is standard, there is nothing 
> there which should trigger bayesian filters.
>
> 9. I've sent emails to other servers under my control running SA - the 
> scores come out perfect at the receiving end.
>
> 10. The emails we send are operational and notices emails to customers 
> - who need them. They call on the phone and complain they haven't 
> received them - just to discover they were sent, but ended up in the 
> junk.
>
> 11. Emails we send to any other domains are never a problem spam-wise.
>
> I can't really think of anything else to try - have I missed anything? 
> Are Hotmail/Outlook.com spam filters a complete lottery?


Re: OT - Hotmail/Outlook.com marking most of our email as Junk

Posted by David Jones <dj...@ena.com>.
On 09/19/2017 01:25 AM, Sebastian Arcus wrote:
> This is a bit off topic as it is not directly related to SA, but I'm 
> hoping that with the email and spam expertise on this group, someone 
> might throw in a useful idea - which would be much appreciated.
> 
> I have this problem on one site where most emails we send to 
> Hotmail/Outlook.com/Live.com email addresses end up in Junk at the 
> recipient's end. Things I have tried:
> 
> 1. I've setup SPF, DKIM, DMARC (and set it to 'reject').
> 
> 2. We used to smart relay outbound email through the hosting provider 
> (1and1), but now changed to send directly from our own IP address, so 
> that we can control the reputation of the sending IP - no change.
> 
> 3. I've checked our public IP and the domain name at mxtoolbox.com - all 
> tests pass (the public IP has been delisted from the Spamhaus 
> non-MX/end-user IP database).
> 
> 4. I've setup forward and reverse DNS entries for our IP address.
> 
> 5. I've checked with all DNS blocklists/blacklists I could find - our 
> domain or IP address is not flagged up anywhere.
> 
> 6. This is a small network which I've been managing for years - the 
> domain name has not been used to send marketing/lists email of any sort 
> - so the historic reputation should be fine.
> 
> 7. I've setup a monitor and block on port 25 outbound on the network 
> firewall - in case there is a trojan on a machine on the network sending 
> out spam and ruining the reputation of our IP - it's never been triggered.
> 
> 8. I've checked the contents of outgoing emails - this is an accountants 
> practice - the email content is standard, there is nothing there which 
> should trigger bayesian filters.
> 
> 9. I've sent emails to other servers under my control running SA - the 
> scores come out perfect at the receiving end.
> 
> 10. The emails we send are operational and notices emails to customers - 
> who need them. They call on the phone and complain they haven't received 
> them - just to discover they were sent, but ended up in the junk.
> 
> 11. Emails we send to any other domains are never a problem spam-wise.
> 
> I can't really think of anything else to try - have I missed anything? 
> Are Hotmail/Outlook.com spam filters a complete lottery?

It would help to see an example of this email in pastbin.  I beleive you 
when you say you have everything setup correctly but seeing an example 
may trigger an idea.

Also, you should try to send an email to https://www.mail-tester.com and 
see how it's scored.  This is an easy way to check everything above from 
a receiver's perspective.  From everything you have said above, you 
should get a score of 10 with a good/normal subject and message body.

-- 
David Jones

Re: OT - Hotmail/Outlook.com marking most of our email as Junk

Posted by Benny Pedersen <me...@junc.eu>.
John Hardin skrev den 2017-09-21 17:06:

>> and just received an email saying that the IP address doesn't qualify 
>> for mitigation. I'm not
>> sure if that means that the IP address is already clean at their end, 
>> or it is blacklisted
>> or greylisted, but they don't want to unblock it.
> Or perhaps "you're too small for us to care."

or to big to solve

Re: OT - Hotmail/Outlook.com marking most of our email as Junk

Posted by John Hardin <jh...@impsec.org>.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Sebastian Arcus wrote:

> and just received an email saying that the IP address doesn't qualify 
> for mitigation. I'm not sure if that means that the IP address is 
> already clean at their end, or it is blacklisted or greylisted, but they 
> don't want to unblock it.

Or perhaps "you're too small for us to care."


-- 
  John Hardin KA7OHZ                    http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/
  jhardin@impsec.org    FALaholic #11174     pgpk -a jhardin@impsec.org
  key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C  AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
   Where We Want You To Go Today 09/13/07: Microsoft patents in-OS
   adware architecture that incorporates monitoring and analysis of
   user actions and interrupting the user to display apparently
   relevant advertisements (U.S. Patent #20070214042)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  175 days since the first commercial re-flight of an orbital booster (SpaceX)

Re: OT - Hotmail/Outlook.com marking most of our email as Junk

Posted by Rupert Gallagher <ru...@protonmail.com>.
You need to learn from the feedback you received. Your server is still rejecting mail to postmaster@open-t.co.uk and abuse@open-t.co.uk, no wonder you are blacklisted!

Re: OT - Hotmail/Outlook.com marking most of our email as Junk

Posted by Groach <gr...@yahoo.com>.
On 26/09/2017 20:08, David Jones wrote:
> There is the possibility that Hotmail doesn't like our IP address 
> because it is a consumer/ADSL/end-user IP - although I've removed it 
> from the Spamhaus PBL database. I guess Hotmail must be using an 
> internal database

I would put money on this being the cause.  If you are on a domestic 
line then you have no chance on being seen and accepted by Hotmail 
without problems.  (Im surprised some of the other big players dont 
cause you problems too).

Also, Hotmail use symantec as part of their spam checking: 
http://ipremoval.sms.symantec.com/lookup/ FYI check your ip on that.

Re: OT - Hotmail/Outlook.com marking most of our email as Junk

Posted by David Jones <dj...@ena.com>.
On 09/26/2017 04:03 AM, Sebastian Arcus wrote:
> On 21/09/17 11:13, Zulma Pape wrote:
>> It means that your ip is greylisted in their end. There are many 
>> solutions to fix this issue, but the easiest and cheapest one is the 
>> get a new ip, and refill the form and see their feedback about it. If 
>> it qualifies for mitigation then you'll start friendly with them, then 
>> they'll build a new reputation on your historic. If not, you can get a 
>> new ip and do the same steps until you get a friendly IP.
> Thank you for the suggestions. I'm afraid we can't just keep on changing 
> IP addresses, as there is other infrastructure tied to this IP address 
> (vpn, external laptops etc.) - so it would involve quite a bit of 
> reconfiguration. Also, I doubt that it would do much good, as we've had 
> this IP address for 5 years - so it is clean. There is the possibility 
> that Hotmail doesn't like our IP address because it is a 
> consumer/ADSL/end-user IP - although I've removed it from the Spamhaus 
> PBL database. I guess Hotmail must be using an internal database. In 
> this case changing to another end-user IP wouldn't do much good.
> 
>>
>> Another solution is, since your volume is very low at the moment, it 
>> should be quite easy for you to ask from your list to add your Sender 
>> to their contact list. This will prevent your emails from going to 
>> junk folder, and at the same time this will increase the reputation of 
>> your IP.
> 
> I will ask a number of contacts to mark our emails as safe - who knows, 
> maybe it will help. Thank you.
> 

You shouldn't have to ask recipient mail server admins to whitelist 
anything if everything is setup correctly.  Did you send test emails to 
the https://www.mail-tester.com/ site and get a high score?  Your FCrDNS 
looks correct, SPF is good and passing, IP 195.166.150.162 is not on any 
major RBLs.  Senderscore.org doesn't have a score yet due to 
insufficient email seen from it.

Sign up for https://www.dnswl.org/selfservice/ and get your IP address 
listed with them.  This could only help.

 From my experience, you don't have to accept mail on postmaster or 
abuse to be a trusted sender.  Since IPs can't be spoofed in an SMTP 
(TCP 25) session, your ISP based on ASN information needs to accept mail 
on postmaster or abuse.  It looks like your ISP of PlusNet does have a 
good abuse@plus.net contact setup so that should be fine.

-- 
David Jones

Re: OT - Hotmail/Outlook.com marking most of our email as Junk

Posted by Sebastian Arcus <s....@open-t.co.uk>.
On 21/09/17 11:13, Zulma Pape wrote:
> It means that your ip is greylisted in their end. There are many 
> solutions to fix this issue, but the easiest and cheapest one is the get 
> a new ip, and refill the form and see their feedback about it. If it 
> qualifies for mitigation then you'll start friendly with them, then 
> they'll build a new reputation on your historic. If not, you can get a 
> new ip and do the same steps until you get a friendly IP.
Thank you for the suggestions. I'm afraid we can't just keep on changing 
IP addresses, as there is other infrastructure tied to this IP address 
(vpn, external laptops etc.) - so it would involve quite a bit of 
reconfiguration. Also, I doubt that it would do much good, as we've had 
this IP address for 5 years - so it is clean. There is the possibility 
that Hotmail doesn't like our IP address because it is a 
consumer/ADSL/end-user IP - although I've removed it from the Spamhaus 
PBL database. I guess Hotmail must be using an internal database. In 
this case changing to another end-user IP wouldn't do much good.

> 
> Another solution is, since your volume is very low at the moment, it 
> should be quite easy for you to ask from your list to add your Sender to 
> their contact list. This will prevent your emails from going to junk 
> folder, and at the same time this will increase the reputation of your IP.

I will ask a number of contacts to mark our emails as safe - who knows, 
maybe it will help. Thank you.


Re: OT - Hotmail/Outlook.com marking most of our email as Junk

Posted by Sebastian Arcus <s....@open-t.co.uk>.
On 21/09/17 10:28, Zulma Pape wrote:
> 
> Here is the link to the forms I talked about. Good luck !
> 
> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/getsupport?oaspworkflow=start_1.0.0.0&wfname=capsub&productkey=edfsmsbl3&locale=en-us&ccsid=635622755123113400

Thank you for that - I've just managed to find that form in the maize of 
MS website about an hour ago. I've filled it out and submitted it - and 
just received an email saying that the IP address doesn't qualify for 
mitigation. I'm not sure if that means that the IP address is already 
clean at their end, or it is blacklisted or greylisted, but they don't 
want to unblock it.



> 
> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Sebastian Arcus <s.arcus@open-t.co.uk 
> <ma...@open-t.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
>     On 19/09/17 10:29, Zulma Pape wrote:
> 
>         There are tons of ways to get your IP a good reputation with
>         Hotmail.
> 
>         Start setting up the SNDS, this will help you monitor your
>         reputation directly with Microsoft.
> 
> 
>     Hi - thank you for the suggestions. I have signed up for the SNDS
>     programme - which looks potentially useful. Unfortunately, SNDS does
>     not show mail and spam traffic stats for IP addresses sending less
>     than 100 mails per day - which seems to be the case of this
>     particular site. The IP Status page lists our IP as having normal
>     status - so I guess it's all good there.
> 
> 
>         You should also try filling their support forms, they will check
>         your IP's historic reputation and act accordingly to it, and
>         since your background is good, the feedback should be positive
>         for you.
> 
> 
>     I have seen references to this form on various historic forum posts
>     - but the links I followed are all dead. Has this form been removed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>         On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 7:25 AM, Sebastian Arcus
>         <s.arcus@open-t.co.uk <ma...@open-t.co.uk>
>         <mailto:s.arcus@open-t.co.uk <ma...@open-t.co.uk>>> wrote:
> 
>              This is a bit off topic as it is not directly related to
>         SA, but I'm
>              hoping that with the email and spam expertise on this
>         group, someone
>              might throw in a useful idea - which would be much appreciated.
> 
>              I have this problem on one site where most emails we send to
>              Hotmail/Outlook.com/Live.com email addresses end up in Junk
>         at the
>              recipient's end. Things I have tried:
> 
>              1. I've setup SPF, DKIM, DMARC (and set it to 'reject').
> 
>              2. We used to smart relay outbound email through the hosting
>              provider (1and1), but now changed to send directly from our
>         own IP
>              address, so that we can control the reputation of the
>         sending IP -
>              no change.
> 
>              3. I've checked our public IP and the domain name at
>         mxtoolbox.com <http://mxtoolbox.com>
>              <http://mxtoolbox.com> - all tests pass (the public IP has been
>              delisted from the Spamhaus non-MX/end-user IP database).
> 
>              4. I've setup forward and reverse DNS entries for our IP
>         address.
> 
>              5. I've checked with all DNS blocklists/blacklists I could
>         find -
>              our domain or IP address is not flagged up anywhere.
> 
>              6. This is a small network which I've been managing for
>         years - the
>              domain name has not been used to send marketing/lists email
>         of any
>              sort - so the historic reputation should be fine.
> 
>              7. I've setup a monitor and block on port 25 outbound on
>         the network
>              firewall - in case there is a trojan on a machine on the
>         network
>              sending out spam and ruining the reputation of our IP -
>         it's never
>              been triggered.
> 
>              8. I've checked the contents of outgoing emails - this is an
>              accountants practice - the email content is standard, there is
>              nothing there which should trigger bayesian filters.
> 
>              9. I've sent emails to other servers under my control
>         running SA -
>              the scores come out perfect at the receiving end.
> 
>              10. The emails we send are operational and notices emails to
>              customers - who need them. They call on the phone and
>         complain they
>              haven't received them - just to discover they were sent,
>         but ended
>              up in the junk.
> 
>              11. Emails we send to any other domains are never a problem
>         spam-wise.
> 
>              I can't really think of anything else to try - have I missed
>              anything? Are Hotmail/Outlook.com spam filters a complete
>         lottery?
> 
> 
> 

Re: OT - Hotmail/Outlook.com marking most of our email as Junk

Posted by Sebastian Arcus <s....@open-t.co.uk>.
On 19/09/17 10:29, Zulma Pape wrote:
> There are tons of ways to get your IP a good reputation with Hotmail.
> 
> Start setting up the SNDS, this will help you monitor your reputation 
> directly with Microsoft.

Hi - thank you for the suggestions. I have signed up for the SNDS 
programme - which looks potentially useful. Unfortunately, SNDS does not 
show mail and spam traffic stats for IP addresses sending less than 100 
mails per day - which seems to be the case of this particular site. The 
IP Status page lists our IP as having normal status - so I guess it's 
all good there.

> 
> You should also try filling their support forms, they will check your 
> IP's historic reputation and act accordingly to it, and since your 
> background is good, the feedback should be positive for you.

I have seen references to this form on various historic forum posts - 
but the links I followed are all dead. Has this form been removed?




> 
> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 7:25 AM, Sebastian Arcus <s.arcus@open-t.co.uk 
> <ma...@open-t.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
>     This is a bit off topic as it is not directly related to SA, but I'm
>     hoping that with the email and spam expertise on this group, someone
>     might throw in a useful idea - which would be much appreciated.
> 
>     I have this problem on one site where most emails we send to
>     Hotmail/Outlook.com/Live.com email addresses end up in Junk at the
>     recipient's end. Things I have tried:
> 
>     1. I've setup SPF, DKIM, DMARC (and set it to 'reject').
> 
>     2. We used to smart relay outbound email through the hosting
>     provider (1and1), but now changed to send directly from our own IP
>     address, so that we can control the reputation of the sending IP -
>     no change.
> 
>     3. I've checked our public IP and the domain name at mxtoolbox.com
>     <http://mxtoolbox.com> - all tests pass (the public IP has been
>     delisted from the Spamhaus non-MX/end-user IP database).
> 
>     4. I've setup forward and reverse DNS entries for our IP address.
> 
>     5. I've checked with all DNS blocklists/blacklists I could find -
>     our domain or IP address is not flagged up anywhere.
> 
>     6. This is a small network which I've been managing for years - the
>     domain name has not been used to send marketing/lists email of any
>     sort - so the historic reputation should be fine.
> 
>     7. I've setup a monitor and block on port 25 outbound on the network
>     firewall - in case there is a trojan on a machine on the network
>     sending out spam and ruining the reputation of our IP - it's never
>     been triggered.
> 
>     8. I've checked the contents of outgoing emails - this is an
>     accountants practice - the email content is standard, there is
>     nothing there which should trigger bayesian filters.
> 
>     9. I've sent emails to other servers under my control running SA -
>     the scores come out perfect at the receiving end.
> 
>     10. The emails we send are operational and notices emails to
>     customers - who need them. They call on the phone and complain they
>     haven't received them - just to discover they were sent, but ended
>     up in the junk.
> 
>     11. Emails we send to any other domains are never a problem spam-wise.
> 
>     I can't really think of anything else to try - have I missed
>     anything? Are Hotmail/Outlook.com spam filters a complete lottery?
> 
>