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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> on 2003/11/15 19:53:30 UTC
RE: [Website] Project homepage
> Can someone update the maven generated website?
> Also can the comitters recreate the website at
> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/geronimo?
Please see
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?listName=general@incubator.apache
.org&msgNo=2586
AFAICS, this needs to be addressed for most of the incubator projects, with
the rare exception of Lenya, which has a URI,
http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/, outside of the incubator domain.
Anyone who wants to help resolve this is welcome to join the discussion.
--- Noel
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RE: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> It would also be extremely handy to be able to start putting Geronimo
> snapshot distributions on the site too then folks could just download
> builds & play with it without doing the whole CVS / Maven thing.
See http://cvs.apache.org/snapshots/incubator-geronimo/ for source
snapshots. As for a binary build, I would prefer to see the IP issues out
of the way, but otherwise, it should be the same (policy-wise) as for any
incubator project.
--- Noel
RE: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> It would also be extremely handy to be able to start putting Geronimo
> snapshot distributions on the site too then folks could just download
> builds & play with it without doing the whole CVS / Maven thing.
See http://cvs.apache.org/snapshots/incubator-geronimo/ for source
snapshots. As for a binary build, I would prefer to see the IP issues out
of the way, but otherwise, it should be the same (policy-wise) as for any
incubator project.
--- Noel
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Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@yahoo.co.uk>.
On 15 Nov 2003, at 14:15, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>> AFAICS, this needs to be addressed for most of the incubator
>>> projects,
>>> with the rare exception of Lenya, which has a URI,
>>> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/, outside of the incubator domain.
>
>> Hmmm, how come Lenya got a URI? Can we have one too? I guess so if
>> Lenya already has?
>
> I would guess that because it already has a TLP location. I suppose
> that we
> could have incubator.apache.org/$project for those that don't have a
> place.
> That would not conflict with incubator.apache.org/projects/$project*,
> which
> is where the status material lives. We just need a consensus on how to
> organize the material.
+1
It would also be extremely handy to be able to start putting Geronimo
snapshot distributions on the site too then folks could just download
builds & play with it without doing the whole CVS / Maven thing.
James
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Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@yahoo.co.uk>.
On 15 Nov 2003, at 14:15, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>> AFAICS, this needs to be addressed for most of the incubator
>>> projects,
>>> with the rare exception of Lenya, which has a URI,
>>> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/, outside of the incubator domain.
>
>> Hmmm, how come Lenya got a URI? Can we have one too? I guess so if
>> Lenya already has?
>
> I would guess that because it already has a TLP location. I suppose
> that we
> could have incubator.apache.org/$project for those that don't have a
> place.
> That would not conflict with incubator.apache.org/projects/$project*,
> which
> is where the status material lives. We just need a consensus on how to
> organize the material.
+1
It would also be extremely handy to be able to start putting Geronimo
snapshot distributions on the site too then folks could just download
builds & play with it without doing the whole CVS / Maven thing.
James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
RE: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> > AFAICS, this needs to be addressed for most of the incubator projects,
> > with the rare exception of Lenya, which has a URI,
> > http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/, outside of the incubator domain.
> Hmmm, how come Lenya got a URI? Can we have one too? I guess so if
> Lenya already has?
I would guess that because it already has a TLP location. I suppose that we
could have incubator.apache.org/$project for those that don't have a place.
That would not conflict with incubator.apache.org/projects/$project*, which
is where the status material lives. We just need a consensus on how to
organize the material.
--- Noel
RE: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> 1) do a transparent rewrite of incubator.apache.org/lenya
> to cocoon.apache.org/lenya (ie, not a redirect)
We can just use RedirectMatch instead of Redirect. And the point is to make
the process transparent, so I would not make any edit change to their site
at all.
> assert* whether lenya incubation is progressing properly
Far as I know, it is. What is remains for them to graduate?
> This is a small issue, don't blow it up. Let's be pragmatic and
> Just Get Things Done.
Amen.
--- Noel
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Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> What do others think?
Two options:
1) do a transparent rewrite of incubator.apache.org/lenya
to cocoon.apache.org/lenya (ie, not a redirect)
2) search-and-replace to replace links to cocoon.apache.org/lenya
with incubator.apache.org/lenya
or
assert* whether lenya incubation is progressing properly (aside
from relatively small details such as what logo is on the website;
we're not incubating a website, but a community), and if so,
don't bother with (2), and make the rewrite into a redirect.
---
This is a small issue, don't blow it up. Let's be pragmatic and
Just Get Things Done.
cheers!
- LSD
* I had best leave it to others to make that assertion.
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Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
...
> The process is simple, yes, but it would break all the links to Lenya.
>
> When we started lenya, the rules of the incubator were not there yet, so
> we took lenya closer to the community that it depends on.
>
> Before breaking all the links, I would like to know if the above is just
> a suggestion or a rule that incubated projects have to follow.
We have decided that this is the policy that has to be used for all
projects that still have to setup a website. We have not decided what to
do with current projects, although we would certainly appreciate if
something like this can be done.
As for the implementation of it for projects that already have a site,
Noel's was just an example of what can be done, not of what has to be
done. More sophisticated things can be done with mod_rewrite:
http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/misc/rewriteguide.html
Practically publishing under the incubator rather than under Cocoon is
really trivial, it just needs to do the CVS update from the incubator
dir on the web server, but the problem is with legacy links, and AFAIK
it can be solved.
What do others think?
I'm personally fine with either solution for projects in the same
situation as Lenya (ie publishing under incubator or current place and
redirecting from the other site), as long as the logo is changed to be
the one of the Incubator Project and not that of the final proposed
destination.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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RE: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> The process is simple, yes, but it would break all the links to Lenya.
Why? This is the same process we've been using in Jakarta whenever a
project moves. How does the following break any existing links to lenya?
RedirectMatch Permanent /lenya/(.*) http://incubator.apache.org/lenya/$1
> When we started lenya, the rules of the incubator were not there yet,
> so we took lenya closer to the community that it depends on.
> Before breaking all the links, I would like to know if the above is
> just a suggestion or a rule that incubated projects have to follow.
As Nicola Ken said, it is what we would like for projects in the incubator.
But we're not trying to break any existing ones. I proposed this solution
because it appears to be a win-win. If not, I think that Lenya has
performed in good faith, and no one is trying to make a problem for the
group.
--- Noel
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RE: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> The process is simple, yes, but it would break all the links to Lenya.
Why? This is the same process we've been using in Jakarta whenever a
project moves. How does the following break any existing links to lenya?
RedirectMatch Permanent /lenya/(.*) http://incubator.apache.org/lenya/$1
> When we started lenya, the rules of the incubator were not there yet,
> so we took lenya closer to the community that it depends on.
> Before breaking all the links, I would like to know if the above is
> just a suggestion or a rule that incubated projects have to follow.
As Nicola Ken said, it is what we would like for projects in the incubator.
But we're not trying to break any existing ones. I proposed this solution
because it appears to be a win-win. If not, I think that Lenya has
performed in good faith, and no one is trying to make a problem for the
group.
--- Noel
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Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
On 18 Nov 2003, at 10:15, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Dion Gillard wrote:
>> James Strachan wrote:
>>>> Lenya, which has a URI, http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/,
>>>> outside of the incubator domain.
>>> Hmmm, how come Lenya got a URI? Can we have one too? I guess so if
>>> Lenya already has?
>> As an outsider, this is very confusing. Lenya 'is not an ASF
>> project', as
>> it's being incubated, but the URL sure makes it seem like it is a sub
>> project of cocoon.
>
> In total fairness to Lenya, the first paragraph of their home page
> talks
> about incubation. However, I agree as a policy matter that the site
> should
> be moved, with a redirect put in place, as described below. After a
> project
> leaves the incubator, a redirect can be put in the incubator's
> .htaccess to
> reference its new location.
>
> To demonstrate the technique, and further illustrating why web-sites
> should
> be maintained in CVS (as Lenya's is :-)), I just issued the following
> command:
>
> cvs -d :pserver:anoncvs@cvs.apache.org:/home/cvspublic \
> checkout -d lenya cocoon-site/site/lenya
>
> from /www/incubator.apache.org. You will notice that a copy of the
> lenya
> site is now at http://incubator.apache.org/lenya. All that is left
> for the
> Cocoon project to do now is to place:
>
> Redirect Permanent /lenya http://incubator.apache.org/lenya
>
> in .htaccess in their site root, and the location change should be
> transparent to all. I won't do that, though. That is a change for
> them to
> make.
>
> When the lenya site is updated, someone just needs to do:
>
> cd /www/incubator.apache.org/lenya
> cvs update -Pd
>
> rather than doing the exact same thing in /www/cocoon.apache.org/lenya.
>
> The process is simple, and should not be disruptive to their progress
> at
> all. It is actually rather cool that things can be this simple.
>
> --- Noel
>
> cc: lenya-dev@
The process is simple, yes, but it would break all the links to Lenya.
When we started lenya, the rules of the incubator were not there yet,
so we took lenya closer to the community that it depends on.
Before breaking all the links, I would like to know if the above is
just a suggestion or a rule that incubated projects have to follow.
NOTE: I'm just wondering. I'm not criticizing or anything, just curious.
--
Stefano.
Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
On 18 Nov 2003, at 10:15, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Dion Gillard wrote:
>> James Strachan wrote:
>>>> Lenya, which has a URI, http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/,
>>>> outside of the incubator domain.
>>> Hmmm, how come Lenya got a URI? Can we have one too? I guess so if
>>> Lenya already has?
>> As an outsider, this is very confusing. Lenya 'is not an ASF
>> project', as
>> it's being incubated, but the URL sure makes it seem like it is a sub
>> project of cocoon.
>
> In total fairness to Lenya, the first paragraph of their home page
> talks
> about incubation. However, I agree as a policy matter that the site
> should
> be moved, with a redirect put in place, as described below. After a
> project
> leaves the incubator, a redirect can be put in the incubator's
> .htaccess to
> reference its new location.
>
> To demonstrate the technique, and further illustrating why web-sites
> should
> be maintained in CVS (as Lenya's is :-)), I just issued the following
> command:
>
> cvs -d :pserver:anoncvs@cvs.apache.org:/home/cvspublic \
> checkout -d lenya cocoon-site/site/lenya
>
> from /www/incubator.apache.org. You will notice that a copy of the
> lenya
> site is now at http://incubator.apache.org/lenya. All that is left
> for the
> Cocoon project to do now is to place:
>
> Redirect Permanent /lenya http://incubator.apache.org/lenya
>
> in .htaccess in their site root, and the location change should be
> transparent to all. I won't do that, though. That is a change for
> them to
> make.
>
> When the lenya site is updated, someone just needs to do:
>
> cd /www/incubator.apache.org/lenya
> cvs update -Pd
>
> rather than doing the exact same thing in /www/cocoon.apache.org/lenya.
>
> The process is simple, and should not be disruptive to their progress
> at
> all. It is actually rather cool that things can be this simple.
>
> --- Noel
>
> cc: lenya-dev@
The process is simple, yes, but it would break all the links to Lenya.
When we started lenya, the rules of the incubator were not there yet,
so we took lenya closer to the community that it depends on.
Before breaking all the links, I would like to know if the above is
just a suggestion or a rule that incubated projects have to follow.
NOTE: I'm just wondering. I'm not criticizing or anything, just curious.
--
Stefano.
Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
I have stopped reading the Apache Incubator mailing list some time ago due
to such debates.
If you think that it is important to create new senseless rules for new
projects - do so. But please do not create new useless work for those
projects which already exist in the Incubator.
Thanks,
Andreas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>
To: <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
Cc: <le...@cocoon.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: [Website] Project homepage
> Dion Gillard wrote:
> > James Strachan wrote:
> > > > Lenya, which has a URI, http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/,
> > > > outside of the incubator domain.
> > > Hmmm, how come Lenya got a URI? Can we have one too? I guess so if
> > > Lenya already has?
> > As an outsider, this is very confusing. Lenya 'is not an ASF project',
as
> > it's being incubated, but the URL sure makes it seem like it is a sub
> > project of cocoon.
>
> In total fairness to Lenya, the first paragraph of their home page talks
> about incubation. However, I agree as a policy matter that the site
should
> be moved, with a redirect put in place, as described below. After a
project
> leaves the incubator, a redirect can be put in the incubator's .htaccess
to
> reference its new location.
>
> To demonstrate the technique, and further illustrating why web-sites
should
> be maintained in CVS (as Lenya's is :-)), I just issued the following
> command:
>
> cvs -d :pserver:anoncvs@cvs.apache.org:/home/cvspublic \
> checkout -d lenya cocoon-site/site/lenya
>
> from /www/incubator.apache.org. You will notice that a copy of the lenya
> site is now at http://incubator.apache.org/lenya. All that is left for
the
> Cocoon project to do now is to place:
>
> Redirect Permanent /lenya http://incubator.apache.org/lenya
>
> in .htaccess in their site root, and the location change should be
> transparent to all. I won't do that, though. That is a change for them
to
> make.
>
> When the lenya site is updated, someone just needs to do:
>
> cd /www/incubator.apache.org/lenya
> cvs update -Pd
>
> rather than doing the exact same thing in /www/cocoon.apache.org/lenya.
>
> The process is simple, and should not be disruptive to their progress at
> all. It is actually rather cool that things can be this simple.
>
> --- Noel
>
> cc: lenya-dev@
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by Andreas Kuckartz <A....@ping.de>.
I have stopped reading the Apache Incubator mailing list some time ago due
to such debates.
If you think that it is important to create new senseless rules for new
projects - do so. But please do not create new useless work for those
projects which already exist in the Incubator.
Thanks,
Andreas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>
To: <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
Cc: <le...@cocoon.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: [Website] Project homepage
> Dion Gillard wrote:
> > James Strachan wrote:
> > > > Lenya, which has a URI, http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/,
> > > > outside of the incubator domain.
> > > Hmmm, how come Lenya got a URI? Can we have one too? I guess so if
> > > Lenya already has?
> > As an outsider, this is very confusing. Lenya 'is not an ASF project',
as
> > it's being incubated, but the URL sure makes it seem like it is a sub
> > project of cocoon.
>
> In total fairness to Lenya, the first paragraph of their home page talks
> about incubation. However, I agree as a policy matter that the site
should
> be moved, with a redirect put in place, as described below. After a
project
> leaves the incubator, a redirect can be put in the incubator's .htaccess
to
> reference its new location.
>
> To demonstrate the technique, and further illustrating why web-sites
should
> be maintained in CVS (as Lenya's is :-)), I just issued the following
> command:
>
> cvs -d :pserver:anoncvs@cvs.apache.org:/home/cvspublic \
> checkout -d lenya cocoon-site/site/lenya
>
> from /www/incubator.apache.org. You will notice that a copy of the lenya
> site is now at http://incubator.apache.org/lenya. All that is left for
the
> Cocoon project to do now is to place:
>
> Redirect Permanent /lenya http://incubator.apache.org/lenya
>
> in .htaccess in their site root, and the location change should be
> transparent to all. I won't do that, though. That is a change for them
to
> make.
>
> When the lenya site is updated, someone just needs to do:
>
> cd /www/incubator.apache.org/lenya
> cvs update -Pd
>
> rather than doing the exact same thing in /www/cocoon.apache.org/lenya.
>
> The process is simple, and should not be disruptive to their progress at
> all. It is actually rather cool that things can be this simple.
>
> --- Noel
>
> cc: lenya-dev@
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Steven Noels wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>> For now, just change the project logo with the incubator one
>> http://cvs.apache.org/~nicolaken/whiteboard/apachelogos/ and decide
>> what Lenya wants to do.
>
> Why the fuzz about the logos? I think projects should be allowed to list
> themselves under the destination PMC *or* under the incubator PMC, as
> long as they make the point of incubation clear on their homepage, and
> link to the incubator website.
Gosh, sometimes it seems that people don't read this mailing list but
just post ;-P
Incubated projects are under the Incubator Project group.
+
Projects have the group project logo on their pages.
=
Incubated projects have the Incubator project logo on their pages.
It's the same thing about publishing the website under the incubator
URL. We use the destination name for cvs and mailing lists *only* to
help the infrastructure guys.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> For now, just change the project logo with the incubator one
> http://cvs.apache.org/~nicolaken/whiteboard/apachelogos/ and decide what
> Lenya wants to do.
Why the fuzz about the logos? I think projects should be allowed to list
themselves under the destination PMC *or* under the incubator PMC, as
long as they make the point of incubation clear on their homepage, and
link to the incubator website.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source Java & XML An Orixo Member
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
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Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> For now, just change the project logo with the incubator one
> http://cvs.apache.org/~nicolaken/whiteboard/apachelogos/ and decide what
> Lenya wants to do.
Why the fuzz about the logos? I think projects should be allowed to list
themselves under the destination PMC *or* under the incubator PMC, as
long as they make the point of incubation clear on their homepage, and
link to the incubator website.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source Java & XML An Orixo Member
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
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Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>> Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
>>
>>> I have stopped reading the Apache Incubator mailing list some time
>>> ago due
>>> to such debates.
>>>
>>> If you think that it is important to create new senseless rules for new
>>> projects - do so. But please do not create new useless work for those
>>> projects which already exist in the Incubator.
>>
>> These rules are not senseless or useless, they come out of *real*
>> issues that we had to deal with. Probably they seem senseless as the
>> issues that have made us come up with them have been discussed on the
>> project mailing list or on the PMC mailing list. This is something
>> that is now changing, and I'm confident that in the future the reasons
>> of these discussions will be more clear to all.
>
> What are rules are we actually refering to which would apply
> to Lenya? Moving the site to incubator.apache.org/lenya/ ?
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Website
Specifically this point:
"
* every project has this URL space where to publish the site:
http://incubator.apache.org/projectname/
"
These are *new* rules, so they do not automatically apply as-is to all
existing projects, as I have explained in other mails.
As Noel explained, it's possible to make deep redirects from existing
URLs to the incubator ones, so links would not break.
For now, just change the project logo with the incubator one
http://cvs.apache.org/~nicolaken/whiteboard/apachelogos/ and decide what
Lenya wants to do.
If Lenya wants to comply with the new rule or simply decide to redirect
from the incubator site to the current one, it's now up to you guys,
both are ok. The first option favors consistency (incubated project
under incubator), the other minimizes change. Your choice :-)
> Anyway, I think it makes sense to dicuss such issues on the
> incubator list.
+1
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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RE: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
> > What are rules are we actually refering to which would apply
> > to Lenya?
> These are *new* rules, so they do not automatically apply as-is to all
> existing projects, as I have explained in other mails.
> > Moving the site to incubator.apache.org/lenya/?
> As Noel explained, it's possible to make deep redirects from existing
> URLs to the incubator ones, so links would not break.
Literally, the only changes required would be:
1. Run cvs up -Pd in /www/incubator.apache.org/lenya
instead of in /www/cocoon.apache.org/lenya.
2. Add one line to a .htaccess file in the cocoon site root.
If it were any more trivial than this, I would not have bothered to suggest
it for an existing site. To demonstrate that it works, I have temporarily
added the following to .htaccess[*] for the incubator site:
RedirectMatch Permanent /lenya/(.*) http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/$1
That causes any reference to lenya website in the incubator's URL space to
redirect to the real web-site, including deep links. This is the reverse of
what would be nice to have now, and is precisely what we would do when lenya
graduates, to keep any bookmarks to the incubator location working.
--- Noel
[*] Nicola, where do you want a .htaccess file checked in: incubator/site/
or incubator-site/build/site? Based upon the presence of favicon.ico
uniquely in the latter, that is where I am assuming you want .htaccess, but
I do want to verify.
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Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>> Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
>>
>>> I have stopped reading the Apache Incubator mailing list some time
>>> ago due
>>> to such debates.
>>>
>>> If you think that it is important to create new senseless rules for new
>>> projects - do so. But please do not create new useless work for those
>>> projects which already exist in the Incubator.
>>
>> These rules are not senseless or useless, they come out of *real*
>> issues that we had to deal with. Probably they seem senseless as the
>> issues that have made us come up with them have been discussed on the
>> project mailing list or on the PMC mailing list. This is something
>> that is now changing, and I'm confident that in the future the reasons
>> of these discussions will be more clear to all.
>
> What are rules are we actually refering to which would apply
> to Lenya? Moving the site to incubator.apache.org/lenya/ ?
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Website
Specifically this point:
"
* every project has this URL space where to publish the site:
http://incubator.apache.org/projectname/
"
These are *new* rules, so they do not automatically apply as-is to all
existing projects, as I have explained in other mails.
As Noel explained, it's possible to make deep redirects from existing
URLs to the incubator ones, so links would not break.
For now, just change the project logo with the incubator one
http://cvs.apache.org/~nicolaken/whiteboard/apachelogos/ and decide what
Lenya wants to do.
If Lenya wants to comply with the new rule or simply decide to redirect
from the incubator site to the current one, it's now up to you guys,
both are ok. The first option favors consistency (incubated project
under incubator), the other minimizes change. Your choice :-)
> Anyway, I think it makes sense to dicuss such issues on the
> incubator list.
+1
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
>
>> I have stopped reading the Apache Incubator mailing list some time
>> ago due
>> to such debates.
>>
>> If you think that it is important to create new senseless rules for new
>> projects - do so. But please do not create new useless work for those
>> projects which already exist in the Incubator.
>
>
> These rules are not senseless or useless, they come out of *real*
> issues that we had to deal with. Probably they seem senseless as the
> issues that have made us come up with them have been discussed on the
> project mailing list or on the PMC mailing list. This is something
> that is now changing, and I'm confident that in the future the reasons
> of these discussions will be more clear to all.
What are rules are we actually refering to which would apply
to Lenya? Moving the site to incubator.apache.org/lenya/ ?
Anyway, I think it makes sense to dicuss such issues on the
incubator list.
Thanks
Michi
>
>
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Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
> I have stopped reading the Apache Incubator mailing list some time ago due
> to such debates.
>
> If you think that it is important to create new senseless rules for new
> projects - do so. But please do not create new useless work for those
> projects which already exist in the Incubator.
These rules are not senseless or useless, they come out of *real* issues
that we had to deal with. Probably they seem senseless as the issues
that have made us come up with them have been discussed on the project
mailing list or on the PMC mailing list. This is something that is now
changing, and I'm confident that in the future the reasons of these
discussions will be more clear to all.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
> I have stopped reading the Apache Incubator mailing list some time ago due
> to such debates.
>
> If you think that it is important to create new senseless rules for new
> projects - do so. But please do not create new useless work for those
> projects which already exist in the Incubator.
These rules are not senseless or useless, they come out of *real* issues
that we had to deal with. Probably they seem senseless as the issues
that have made us come up with them have been discussed on the project
mailing list or on the PMC mailing list. This is something that is now
changing, and I'm confident that in the future the reasons of these
discussions will be more clear to all.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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RE: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Dion Gillard wrote:
> James Strachan wrote:
> > > Lenya, which has a URI, http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/,
> > > outside of the incubator domain.
> > Hmmm, how come Lenya got a URI? Can we have one too? I guess so if
> > Lenya already has?
> As an outsider, this is very confusing. Lenya 'is not an ASF project', as
> it's being incubated, but the URL sure makes it seem like it is a sub
> project of cocoon.
In total fairness to Lenya, the first paragraph of their home page talks
about incubation. However, I agree as a policy matter that the site should
be moved, with a redirect put in place, as described below. After a project
leaves the incubator, a redirect can be put in the incubator's .htaccess to
reference its new location.
To demonstrate the technique, and further illustrating why web-sites should
be maintained in CVS (as Lenya's is :-)), I just issued the following
command:
cvs -d :pserver:anoncvs@cvs.apache.org:/home/cvspublic \
checkout -d lenya cocoon-site/site/lenya
from /www/incubator.apache.org. You will notice that a copy of the lenya
site is now at http://incubator.apache.org/lenya. All that is left for the
Cocoon project to do now is to place:
Redirect Permanent /lenya http://incubator.apache.org/lenya
in .htaccess in their site root, and the location change should be
transparent to all. I won't do that, though. That is a change for them to
make.
When the lenya site is updated, someone just needs to do:
cd /www/incubator.apache.org/lenya
cvs update -Pd
rather than doing the exact same thing in /www/cocoon.apache.org/lenya.
The process is simple, and should not be disruptive to their progress at
all. It is actually rather cool that things can be this simple.
--- Noel
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RE: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Dion Gillard wrote:
> James Strachan wrote:
> > > Lenya, which has a URI, http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/,
> > > outside of the incubator domain.
> > Hmmm, how come Lenya got a URI? Can we have one too? I guess so if
> > Lenya already has?
> As an outsider, this is very confusing. Lenya 'is not an ASF project', as
> it's being incubated, but the URL sure makes it seem like it is a sub
> project of cocoon.
In total fairness to Lenya, the first paragraph of their home page talks
about incubation. However, I agree as a policy matter that the site should
be moved, with a redirect put in place, as described below. After a project
leaves the incubator, a redirect can be put in the incubator's .htaccess to
reference its new location.
To demonstrate the technique, and further illustrating why web-sites should
be maintained in CVS (as Lenya's is :-)), I just issued the following
command:
cvs -d :pserver:anoncvs@cvs.apache.org:/home/cvspublic \
checkout -d lenya cocoon-site/site/lenya
from /www/incubator.apache.org. You will notice that a copy of the lenya
site is now at http://incubator.apache.org/lenya. All that is left for the
Cocoon project to do now is to place:
Redirect Permanent /lenya http://incubator.apache.org/lenya
in .htaccess in their site root, and the location change should be
transparent to all. I won't do that, though. That is a change for them to
make.
When the lenya site is updated, someone just needs to do:
cd /www/incubator.apache.org/lenya
cvs update -Pd
rather than doing the exact same thing in /www/cocoon.apache.org/lenya.
The process is simple, and should not be disruptive to their progress at
all. It is actually rather cool that things can be this simple.
--- Noel
cc: lenya-dev@
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Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by di...@multitask.com.au.
James Strachan <ja...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote on 16/11/2003 06:10:19
AM:
> On 15 Nov 2003, at 10:53, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> >> Can someone update the maven generated website?
> >
> >> Also can the comitters recreate the website at
> >> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/geronimo?
> >
> > Please see
> > http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?
> > listName=general@incubator.apache
> > .org&msgNo=2586
> >
> > AFAICS, this needs to be addressed for most of the incubator projects,
> > with
> > the rare exception of Lenya, which has a URI,
> > http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/, outside of the incubator domain.
>
> Hmmm, how come Lenya got a URI? Can we have one too? I guess so if
> Lenya already has?
>
As an outsider, this is very confusing. Lenya 'is not an ASF project', as
it's being incubated, but the URL sure makes it seem like it is a sub
project of cocoon.
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Blog: http://blogs.codehaus.org/people/dion/
Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by di...@multitask.com.au.
James Strachan <ja...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote on 16/11/2003 06:10:19
AM:
> On 15 Nov 2003, at 10:53, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> >> Can someone update the maven generated website?
> >
> >> Also can the comitters recreate the website at
> >> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/geronimo?
> >
> > Please see
> > http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?
> > listName=general@incubator.apache
> > .org&msgNo=2586
> >
> > AFAICS, this needs to be addressed for most of the incubator projects,
> > with
> > the rare exception of Lenya, which has a URI,
> > http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/, outside of the incubator domain.
>
> Hmmm, how come Lenya got a URI? Can we have one too? I guess so if
> Lenya already has?
>
As an outsider, this is very confusing. Lenya 'is not an ASF project', as
it's being incubated, but the URL sure makes it seem like it is a sub
project of cocoon.
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Blog: http://blogs.codehaus.org/people/dion/
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RE: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> > AFAICS, this needs to be addressed for most of the incubator projects,
> > with the rare exception of Lenya, which has a URI,
> > http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/, outside of the incubator domain.
> Hmmm, how come Lenya got a URI? Can we have one too? I guess so if
> Lenya already has?
I would guess that because it already has a TLP location. I suppose that we
could have incubator.apache.org/$project for those that don't have a place.
That would not conflict with incubator.apache.org/projects/$project*, which
is where the status material lives. We just need a consensus on how to
organize the material.
--- Noel
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Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@yahoo.co.uk>.
On 15 Nov 2003, at 10:53, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>> Can someone update the maven generated website?
>
>> Also can the comitters recreate the website at
>> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/geronimo?
>
> Please see
> http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?
> listName=general@incubator.apache
> .org&msgNo=2586
>
> AFAICS, this needs to be addressed for most of the incubator projects,
> with
> the rare exception of Lenya, which has a URI,
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/, outside of the incubator domain.
Hmmm, how come Lenya got a URI? Can we have one too? I guess so if
Lenya already has?
James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
Re: [Website] Project homepage
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@yahoo.co.uk>.
On 15 Nov 2003, at 10:53, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>> Can someone update the maven generated website?
>
>> Also can the comitters recreate the website at
>> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/geronimo?
>
> Please see
> http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?
> listName=general@incubator.apache
> .org&msgNo=2586
>
> AFAICS, this needs to be addressed for most of the incubator projects,
> with
> the rare exception of Lenya, which has a URI,
> http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/, outside of the incubator domain.
Hmmm, how come Lenya got a URI? Can we have one too? I guess so if
Lenya already has?
James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
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