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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by "Perry E. Metzger" <pe...@piermont.com> on 2004/04/12 16:45:13 UTC

wacky/disturbing error message

One of my users complained about an odd error message when attempting
to set up a branch. I tried it myself, and sure enough:

perry@hackworth$ svn cp svn+ssh://svn/svn/trunk/svn-tools svn+ssh://svn/svn/branches/perry/test/svn-tools        
svn: Out of date: 'branches/perry' in transaction '1o'
svn: Your commit message was left in a temporary file:
svn:    'svn-commit.3.tmp'

Now, what seems to be going on here is that branches/perry/test
doesn't exist and it is unhappy about that. Fair enough (although I
would have thought that it would have created the path in the way
import does). However, at the very least, the error message is
extremely confusing to a naive user -- it should not be saying "out of
date blah in transaction foo", it should say that the directory does
not exist.

Thoughts?

-- 
Perry E. Metzger		perry@piermont.com

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Re: wacky/disturbing error message

Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
On Tue, 2004-04-13 at 13:53, Perry E. Metzger wrote:

> > We're collecting these in issue 1254.  Can you add this to that issue?
> 
> I feel thick. I can't figure out how to add to the issue.

Nonsense.  You're just being exposed to our custom issuezilla for the
first time.  The symptoms are temporary and will pass.  :-)

First create yourself an account on tigris.org.  Then log in to the
site, and request an "observer" role on the Subversion project, and
we'll approve it.  Then you can annotate issues all you like.



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Re: wacky/disturbing error message

Posted by "Perry E. Metzger" <pe...@piermont.com>.
Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net> writes:
> Perry E. Metzger wrote:
>> One of my users complained about an odd error message when attempting
>> to set up a branch. I tried it myself, and sure enough:
>> perry@hackworth$ svn cp svn+ssh://svn/svn/trunk/svn-tools
>> svn+ssh://svn/svn/branches/perry/test/svn-tools        svn: Out of
>> date: 'branches/perry' in transaction '1o'
>
> We're collecting these in issue 1254.  Can you add this to that issue?

I feel thick. I can't figure out how to add to the issue.

Perry

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Re: wacky/disturbing error message

Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
Perry E. Metzger wrote:
> One of my users complained about an odd error message when attempting
> to set up a branch. I tried it myself, and sure enough:
> 
> perry@hackworth$ svn cp svn+ssh://svn/svn/trunk/svn-tools svn+ssh://svn/svn/branches/perry/test/svn-tools        
> svn: Out of date: 'branches/perry' in transaction '1o'

We're collecting these in issue 1254.  Can you add this to that issue?

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Re: mail archives (was Re: wacky/disturbing error message)

Posted by John Peacock <jp...@rowman.com>.
Daniel Stenberg wrote:
> Then how come the search form I just added there works? (Admittedly not with
> the most recent posting searchable, but anyway...)
> 

That's excellent!  I know that I tried that exact query in the past and Google 
had nothing.  How did you get Google to spider the site if there are no links to 
the archives from the main www.contactor.se page (that I can see)?

John

-- 
John Peacock
Director of Information Research and Technology
Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group
4720 Boston Way
Lanham, MD 20706
301-459-3366 x.5010
fax 301-429-5747

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Re: mail archives (was Re: wacky/disturbing error message)

Posted by Daniel Stenberg <da...@haxx.se>.
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, John Peacock wrote:

> Sadly, the fact that your archive is not a top level link (or mentioned at
> the top level) means that it is impossible for (e.g.) Google to spider it
> for searching.  Using "site:blah search terms" only works if it has been
> spidered from the top.

Then how come the search form I just added there works? (Admittedly not with
the most recent posting searchable, but anyway...)

-- 
         -=- Daniel Stenberg -=- http://daniel.haxx.se -=-
  ech`echo xiun|tr nu oc|sed 'sx\([sx]\)\([xoi]\)xo un\2\1 is xg'`ol

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Re: mail archives (was Re: wacky/disturbing error message)

Posted by John Peacock <jp...@rowman.com>.
Daniel Stenberg wrote:
> I've always disliked the tigris.org way of archiving the mails (or rather its
> way of presenting the archives), so I setup and provide my own archive:
> http://www.contactor.se/~dast/svnusers/

And I used your archive to research his issues. ;~)

> 
> If you want better search, feel free to setup a search engine software that
> indexes this regularly. 

Sadly, the fact that your archive is not a top level link (or mentioned at the 
top level) means that it is impossible for (e.g.) Google to spider it for 
searching.  Using "site:blah search terms" only works if it has been spidered 
from the top.

John

-- 
John Peacock
Director of Information Research and Technology
Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group
4720 Boston Way
Lanham, MD 20706
301-459-3366 x.5010
fax 301-429-5747

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mail archives (was Re: wacky/disturbing error message)

Posted by Daniel Stenberg <da...@haxx.se>.
On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, John Peacock wrote:

> I wish someone would just admit that the current list archive software was
> nonfunctional and replace it with something with a decent search interface.

I've always disliked the tigris.org way of archiving the mails (or rather its
way of presenting the archives), so I setup and provide my own archive:
http://www.contactor.se/~dast/svnusers/

If you want better search, feel free to setup a search engine software that
indexes this regularly. I also offer mbox versions:

	http://www.contactor.se/~dast/svnusers/mbox.cgi
	http://www.contactor.se/~dast/svn/mbox.cgi

I hope this helps.

-- 
         -=- Daniel Stenberg -=- http://daniel.haxx.se -=-
  ech`echo xiun|tr nu oc|sed 'sx\([sx]\)\([xoi]\)xo un\2\1 is xg'`ol

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Re: wacky/disturbing error message

Posted by John Peacock <jp...@rowman.com>.
Glenn Maynard wrote:
> http://lists.debian.org/google.html
> 
> Picking a random Message-ID:
> 
>  20030508072203.GA759@fistandantilus.takhisis.org
> 
> and entering it into the form gives me the message and its two replies,
> with no false positives, which is incredibly useful.

Google is starting to scare me. ;~)  I still stand by my original assertion that 
Message-ID is not terribly useful to humans.  And the Message-ID is certainly 
useless on the Subversion lists, isn't it?

If you want to cite a previous discussion, you should either find it in the list 
archives and insert a link to it, or at least provide a context (Subject and 
Date), so that someone else can find it in the archive.

I believe the issue with the main User/Dev lists at tigris.org being so lame was 
that the site couldn't be updated to the newest release of Collabnet's 
distribution software before 1.0 was released.  I don't know what the problem is 
now.  I wish someone would just admit that the current list archive software was 
nonfunctional and replace it with something with a decent search interface.

John

-- 
John Peacock
Director of Information Research and Technology
Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group
4720 Boston Way
Lanham, MD 20706
301-459-3366 x.5010
fax 301-429-5747

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Re: wacky/disturbing error message

Posted by Glenn Maynard <g_...@zewt.org>.
On Mon, Apr 12, 2004 at 10:29:31PM -0400, John Peacock wrote:
> Not for humans, they aren't.  Show me how to search on Message-ID, in any 
> mail
> archive, either for this project or any other list.  They are only useful 

http://lists.debian.org/google.html

Picking a random Message-ID:

 20030508072203.GA759@fistandantilus.takhisis.org

and entering it into the form gives me the message and its two replies,
with no false positives, which is incredibly useful.

> Bitching that "Fixing poor error messages doesn't seem to be a priority." 
> is unfair at best.  This is an open-source project; if that error message 
> bothers you that much, fix the code.

Ramping up on a project enough to fix problems correctly requires a significant
time investment, so saying "fix it yourself" isn't very interesting.  (I don't
consider an observation of apparent priorities to be "bitching", but I'm not
interested in arguing about it.)

-- 
Glenn Maynard

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Re: wacky/disturbing error message

Posted by John Peacock <jp...@rowman.com>.
Glenn Maynard wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2004 at 08:44:21PM -0400, John Peacock wrote:
> 
>> You do know that a Message-ID is not useful _in any way_ towards tracking 
>> that message in the list archives, don't you?
> 
> 
> Message-IDs are a fundamental means of referencing a message.

Not for humans, they aren't.  Show me how to search on Message-ID, in any mail
archive, either for this project or any other list.  They are only useful for
mail client to thread messages (by creating the References: header).  There is
no guarantee even that the originating MTA will create one, to quote RFC-2822:

3.6.4 Identification fields

     Though optional, every message SHOULD have a "Message-ID:" field. 
Furthermore, reply messages SHOULD have "In-Reply-To:" and "References:" fields 
as appropriate, as described below.

> If you find messages like "REPORT request failed on '/svn/!svn/vcc/default'" 
> and "Invalid editor anchoring" pretty clear, then you're ahead of me.

I read your original report backwards; at first glance I didn't realize you were
complaining about the second error, not the first.  I agree that the 'svn
merge' message reveals too much of the implementation details, and not enough of 
the human interface side.  But "at least one of the input paths is not a
directory" seems like a good place to start figuring out the problem.

Bitching that "Fixing poor error messages doesn't seem to be a priority." is 
unfair at best.  This is an open-source project; if that error message bothers 
you that much, fix the code.

John

-- 
John Peacock
Director of Information Research and Technology
Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group
4720 Boston Way
Lanham, MD 20706
301-459-3366 x.5010
fax 301-429-5747

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Re: wacky/disturbing error message

Posted by Jeremy Pereira <je...@jeremyp.net>.
On Apr 13, 2004, at 02:07, Glenn Maynard wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 12, 2004 at 08:44:21PM -0400, John Peacock wrote:
>> You do know that a Message-ID is not useful _in any way_ towards 
>> tracking
>> that message in the list archives, don't you?
>
> Message-IDs are a fundamental means of referencing a message.
>
>

The subversion message archives do not include message id as an index - 
perhaps they should, but for the moment,  it is pretty useless for 
those of us who do not keep copies of all user group messages in our 
mailboxes or who joined the list after the message was posted.

--
Jeremy Pereira
http://www.jeremyp.net


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Re: wacky/disturbing error message

Posted by Glenn Maynard <g_...@zewt.org>.
On Mon, Apr 12, 2004 at 08:44:21PM -0400, John Peacock wrote:
> You do know that a Message-ID is not useful _in any way_ towards tracking 
> that message in the list archives, don't you? 

Message-IDs are a fundamental means of referencing a message.

> I'm guessing you mean this:
> 
> 	http://www.contactor.se/~dast/svnusers/archive-2004-03/1928.shtml
> 
> which I have to say /I/ find pretty clear.

If you find messages like "REPORT request failed on '/svn/!svn/vcc/default'"
and "Invalid editor anchoring" pretty clear, then you're ahead of me.  I
find the message "'https://zewt.org/svn/vendor/foo' was not found in the
repository" to be immediately and obviously meaningful.

-- 
Glenn Maynard

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Re: wacky/disturbing error message

Posted by John Peacock <jp...@rowman.com>.
Glenn Maynard wrote:
> Fixing poor error messages doesn't seem to be a priority.  I pointed out
> one (Message-ID: <20...@zewt.org>) that took me an
> hour or so to figure out, and didn't get any response ...
> 

You do know that a Message-ID is not useful _in any way_ towards tracking that 
message in the list archives, don't you?  The attitude is also suprisingly 
unhelpful.

I'm guessing you mean this:

	http://www.contactor.se/~dast/svnusers/archive-2004-03/1928.shtml

which I have to say /I/ find pretty clear.  The appropriate response to the 
first error should have been

	svn ls https://zewt.org/svn/vendor

to see that you had forgotten to commit foo.  The first error message correctly 
states the obvious (that the destination path doesn't exist).

John

-- 
John Peacock
Director of Information Research and Technology
Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group
4720 Boston Way
Lanham, MD 20706
301-459-3366 x.5010
fax 301-429-5747

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Re: wacky/disturbing error message

Posted by Glenn Maynard <g_...@zewt.org>.
On Mon, Apr 12, 2004 at 12:45:13PM -0400, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
> One of my users complained about an odd error message when attempting
> to set up a branch. I tried it myself, and sure enough:

Fixing poor error messages doesn't seem to be a priority.  I pointed out
one (Message-ID: <20...@zewt.org>) that took me an
hour or so to figure out, and didn't get any response ...

-- 
Glenn Maynard

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