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Posted to general@xml.apache.org by Ted Leung <tw...@sauria.com> on 2003/06/02 19:58:31 UTC
Back to the charter
Hello all,
It's been some time since we had any discussion on the charter, and we
really should get this all taken care of. Here's a proposal for getting
this done.
1. Let's take between now and Monday June 9 for any addtional wording
changes that people feel are necessary
2. If possible let's have a vote on the new charter between June 9 and 16.
We also need to elect a new PMC chair, so here's a parallel proposal for
doing that:
1. Let's take between now and Monday June 9 for nominations for the chair
2. Let's have a vote between June 9 and 16.
The current members of the XML PMC are:
Scott Boag
Andy Clark
Shane Curcuru
Christian Geuer-Pollmann
Neil Graham
Kip Hampton
Vincent Hardy
Berin Lautenbach
Ted Leung
Jeremias Maerki
Steven Noels
Santiago Pericas-Geertsen
Gareth Reakes
Gianugo Rabellino
Sam Ruby
Matt Sergeant
Ilene Seelemann
Kimbro Staken
Jason Stewart
Jeff Turner
Dirk-Willem van Gulik
Peter B. West
PeiYong Zhang
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Re: Back to the charter
Posted by "Peter B. West" <pb...@powerup.com.au>.
Ted,
Pardon my ignorance, but where is the current working version of the new
charter?
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://www.powerup.com.au/~pbwest/resume.html
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Re: Back to the charter
Posted by Ted Leung <tw...@sauria.com>.
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
> Ted,
>
> There was also a broader list of issues you sent out sometime back.
> It included these items + some others (Xerces1, PGP, Infrastructure
> etc.) Should we also be going back over that?
I believe this is the list you are referring to (removed stuff that's
either done or covered by the original message in this thread). I'd be
happy to see us pursue them if people think that they are important...
o Encourage projects to start using the ASF mirroring guidelines
o Encourage PGP signing of releases and improvement of the PGP web of trust
o Update the main web site
o Participate in new jar repository effort being discussed on community
o Figure out what to do about Xang, Crimson, Xerces1
o One or more PMC reps to be part of infrastructure@ w/ concomitant root
privs
>
> Cheers,
> Berin
>
>
> Ted Leung wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> It's been some time since we had any discussion on the charter, and
>> we really should get this all taken care of. Here's a proposal for
>> getting this done.
>>
>> 1. Let's take between now and Monday June 9 for any addtional wording
>> changes that people feel are necessary
>> 2. If possible let's have a vote on the new charter between June 9
>> and 16.
>>
>> We also need to elect a new PMC chair, so here's a parallel proposal
>> for doing that:
>>
>> 1. Let's take between now and Monday June 9 for nominations for the
>> chair
>> 2. Let's have a vote between June 9 and 16.
>>
>> The current members of the XML PMC are:
>>
>> Scott Boag
>> Andy Clark
>> Shane Curcuru
>> Christian Geuer-Pollmann
>> Neil Graham
>> Kip Hampton
>> Vincent Hardy
>> Berin Lautenbach
>> Ted Leung
>> Jeremias Maerki
>> Steven Noels
>> Santiago Pericas-Geertsen
>> Gareth Reakes
>> Gianugo Rabellino
>> Sam Ruby
>> Matt Sergeant
>> Ilene Seelemann
>> Kimbro Staken
>> Jason Stewart
>> Jeff Turner
>> Dirk-Willem van Gulik
>> Peter B. West
>> PeiYong Zhang
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> In case of troubles, e-mail: webmaster@xml.apache.org
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@xml.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: Back to the charter
Posted by Berin Lautenbach <be...@ozemail.com.au>.
Ted,
There was also a broader list of issues you sent out sometime back. It
included these items + some others (Xerces1, PGP, Infrastructure etc.)
Should we also be going back over that?
Cheers,
Berin
Ted Leung wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> It's been some time since we had any discussion on the charter, and we
> really should get this all taken care of. Here's a proposal for getting
> this done.
>
> 1. Let's take between now and Monday June 9 for any addtional wording
> changes that people feel are necessary
> 2. If possible let's have a vote on the new charter between June 9 and 16.
>
> We also need to elect a new PMC chair, so here's a parallel proposal for
> doing that:
>
> 1. Let's take between now and Monday June 9 for nominations for the chair
> 2. Let's have a vote between June 9 and 16.
>
> The current members of the XML PMC are:
>
> Scott Boag
> Andy Clark
> Shane Curcuru
> Christian Geuer-Pollmann
> Neil Graham
> Kip Hampton
> Vincent Hardy
> Berin Lautenbach
> Ted Leung
> Jeremias Maerki
> Steven Noels
> Santiago Pericas-Geertsen
> Gareth Reakes
> Gianugo Rabellino
> Sam Ruby
> Matt Sergeant
> Ilene Seelemann
> Kimbro Staken
> Jason Stewart
> Jeff Turner
> Dirk-Willem van Gulik
> Peter B. West
> PeiYong Zhang
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> In case of troubles, e-mail: webmaster@xml.apache.org
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@xml.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Back to the charter
Posted by Ted Leung <tw...@sauria.com>.
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
> Ted,
>
> Had another read.
>
> 1. Would anyone have any objections to me running through the document
> and adding numbers to the headings (x) and paragraphs (x.y)? I find
> it easier to comment and work on documents with numbers.
Please do
>
> 2. We are talking about electing a chairperson of the PMC. I assume
> this will then be a recommendation to the Board, so the board can then
> appoint the person as a officer of the corporation (if necessary) as
> per 6.3 of the bylaws? (Forgive me if I have this wrong - I'm not
> clear on exactly how it all hangs together.)
>
> If this is the process we wish to follow within the PMC from here on
> (it seems like a good one to me :>), then we should "enshrine" it in
> the charter, rather than just say "...must have at least one officer
> from the Apache board who will be the Chairperson....". At the moment
> we are going to hold an election, but without any clear directive as
> to why or what it means. (Again - forgive me if I have this up wrong,
> there is more than likely something of which I am not aware?)
The PMC elects its own chair. That chairperson becomes an ASF vice
president for the duration of their term (which has been unspecified
until we modified the charter). The reason for the election is that I
have been chair for more than 2 years, and we amended the charter to
specify a one year term. If we want to have term limits, that's fine too.
>
> 3. The process for electing representatives to the PMC appears to be
> totally different to what is in the charter. It is clear that the
> board expects each sub-project to have direct representation on the
> PMC if possible (reference recent e-mail on Batik). This is not
> reflected in the charter process for electing reps. Neither is the
> process of having each sub-comittee elect their own reps.
>
> I know there was some reservation about this process when it was
> raised previously. I _think_ (long time back) Dirk had reservations
> about this possibly creating a situation where we are not necessarily
> getting the best people with a good strategic outlook on the project.
This all came about because the ASF board is trying to increase the
level of oversight over the various ASF projects. One way to do this
is for each xml.apache.org project to become a top level project with
its own PMC, but not many projects seemed interested in that. Given
that, I exercised my ability as the chair to hold a special election and
add people to the PMC so that we could get a better handle on what's
going on in the subprojects. We should probably codify the
per-subproject representation in the charter.
> So again - maybe we should document what is being done and properly
> grapple with how we want to handle the strategic outlook issue?
>
> I've done a _very_ rough and quick hack at the current section on the
> PMC to try to illustrate 2&3 above (I couldn't resist :>), but I have
> not tried to factor in the strategic piece, or a previous discussion
> that was had around rotating PMC membership. It's more to put a stake
> in the ground.
Could you check your version in -- it's easier to look at the diffs...
>
> 4. Gump (second last section) is not really appropriate for everyone
> - not really aimed at C++ libraries. (Xerces-C, Xalan-X,
> XML-Security-C). Maybe this should either mention Java or "where
> appropriate"
Yes
>
>
>
>
> THE PROJECT MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE
> ================================
> The xml.apache.org project is managed by a core group of
> contributors known as the Project Management Committee [PMC]. The PMC
> must have at least one officer from the Apache Board, who will be the
> Chairperson and report to the Apache Board. See
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html for reference. The
> Chairperson will serve a term of one calendar year.
>
> Once per year, the PMC will provide a recommendation to the Apache
> Board for the position of Chairperson of the PMC. This recommendation
> will be made on the basis of an election held within the project.
> All members of the PMC at the time of the election will be eligable
> for nominations to the position of Chairperson, and the project will
> vote from those nominated,
> to select the PMC representative to be recommended to the Apache Board
> as the Chairperson for the next 12 months.
>
> (** Who nominates, and who votes? **)
>
> The PMC has the following responsibilities:
>
> 1) Accepting new subproject proposals, formally submitting these
> proposals for xml.apache.org committer vote, and creating the
> subproject (see SUBPROJECTS below). This is done in collaboration
> with the Incubator.
> 2) Facilitating code or other donations by individuals or companies,
> in collaboration with the Incubator.
> 3) Resolving license issues and other legal issues in conjunction with
> the ASF board
> 4) Ensuring that administrative and infrastructure work is completed.
> 5) Facilitating relationships among projects and subprojects.
> 6) Facilitating relationships between xml.apache.org and the external
> world.
> 7) Overseeing xml.apache.org to ensure that the mission defined in
> this document is being fulfilled.
> 8) Resolving conflicts within the project.
>
> Every 12 months, each subproject of xml.apache.org will nominate 1-2
> individuals to represent them on the PMC. To become a sub-project's
> representative on the PMC, an individual must be nominated by a
> contributor, unanimously approved by all PMC members, and approved by
> a two-thirds majority of the sub-project's active committers. In most
> cases, developers will have actively contributed to development for
> at least six months before being considered for membership on the PMC.
>
> In cases where the sub-project is unable to directly provide a
> representative on the PMC, another member of the PMC will be required
> to represent that sub-project on the PMC.
>
> In the unlikely event that a member of the PMC becomes disruptive to
> the process or ceases to make codebase contributions for an extended
> period, said member may be removed by unanimous vote of remaining PMC
> members.
>
> The PMC is responsible for maintaining and updating this
> charter. Development must follow the process outlined below, so any
> change to the development process necessitates a change to the
> charter. Changes must be unanimously approved by all members of the
> PMC. A contributor may challenge a change to the charter at any time
> and ask for a vote of all xml.apache.org active committers, in which
> case a two-thirds majority must approve the change.
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Berin
>
>
>
>
> Ted Leung wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> It's been some time since we had any discussion on the charter, and
>> we really should get this all taken care of. Here's a proposal for
>> getting this done.
>>
>> 1. Let's take between now and Monday June 9 for any addtional wording
>> changes that people feel are necessary
>> 2. If possible let's have a vote on the new charter between June 9
>> and 16.
>>
>> We also need to elect a new PMC chair, so here's a parallel proposal
>> for doing that:
>>
>> 1. Let's take between now and Monday June 9 for nominations for the
>> chair
>> 2. Let's have a vote between June 9 and 16.
>>
>> The current members of the XML PMC are:
>>
>> Scott Boag
>> Andy Clark
>> Shane Curcuru
>> Christian Geuer-Pollmann
>> Neil Graham
>> Kip Hampton
>> Vincent Hardy
>> Berin Lautenbach
>> Ted Leung
>> Jeremias Maerki
>> Steven Noels
>> Santiago Pericas-Geertsen
>> Gareth Reakes
>> Gianugo Rabellino
>> Sam Ruby
>> Matt Sergeant
>> Ilene Seelemann
>> Kimbro Staken
>> Jason Stewart
>> Jeff Turner
>> Dirk-Willem van Gulik
>> Peter B. West
>> PeiYong Zhang
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> In case of troubles, e-mail: webmaster@xml.apache.org
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@xml.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> In case of troubles, e-mail: webmaster@xml.apache.org
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@xml.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Back to the charter
Posted by Berin Lautenbach <be...@ozemail.com.au>.
Ted,
Had another read.
1. Would anyone have any objections to me running through the document
and adding numbers to the headings (x) and paragraphs (x.y)? I find it
easier to comment and work on documents with numbers.
2. We are talking about electing a chairperson of the PMC. I assume
this will then be a recommendation to the Board, so the board can then
appoint the person as a officer of the corporation (if necessary) as per
6.3 of the bylaws? (Forgive me if I have this wrong - I'm not clear on
exactly how it all hangs together.)
If this is the process we wish to follow within the PMC from here on (it
seems like a good one to me :>), then we should "enshrine" it in the
charter, rather than just say "...must have at least one officer from
the Apache board who will be the Chairperson....". At the moment we are
going to hold an election, but without any clear directive as to why or
what it means. (Again - forgive me if I have this up wrong, there is
more than likely something of which I am not aware?)
3. The process for electing representatives to the PMC appears to be
totally different to what is in the charter. It is clear that the board
expects each sub-project to have direct representation on the PMC if
possible (reference recent e-mail on Batik). This is not reflected in
the charter process for electing reps. Neither is the process of having
each sub-comittee elect their own reps.
I know there was some reservation about this process when it was raised
previously. I _think_ (long time back) Dirk had reservations about this
possibly creating a situation where we are not necessarily getting the
best people with a good strategic outlook on the project.
So again - maybe we should document what is being done and properly
grapple with how we want to handle the strategic outlook issue?
I've done a _very_ rough and quick hack at the current section on the
PMC to try to illustrate 2&3 above (I couldn't resist :>), but I have
not tried to factor in the strategic piece, or a previous discussion
that was had around rotating PMC membership. It's more to put a stake
in the ground.
4. Gump (second last section) is not really appropriate for everyone -
not really aimed at C++ libraries. (Xerces-C, Xalan-X, XML-Security-C).
Maybe this should either mention Java or "where appropriate"
THE PROJECT MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE
================================
The xml.apache.org project is managed by a core group of
contributors known as the Project Management Committee [PMC]. The PMC
must have at least one officer from the Apache Board, who will be the
Chairperson and report to the Apache Board. See
http://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html for reference. The
Chairperson will serve a term of one calendar year.
Once per year, the PMC will provide a recommendation to the Apache
Board for the position of Chairperson of the PMC. This recommendation
will be made on the basis of an election held within the project.
All members of the PMC at the time of the election will be eligable for
nominations to the position of Chairperson, and the project will vote
from those nominated,
to select the PMC representative to be recommended to the Apache Board
as the Chairperson for the next 12 months.
(** Who nominates, and who votes? **)
The PMC has the following responsibilities:
1) Accepting new subproject proposals, formally submitting these
proposals for xml.apache.org committer vote, and creating the
subproject (see SUBPROJECTS below). This is done in collaboration
with the Incubator.
2) Facilitating code or other donations by individuals or companies,
in collaboration with the Incubator.
3) Resolving license issues and other legal issues in conjunction with
the ASF board
4) Ensuring that administrative and infrastructure work is completed.
5) Facilitating relationships among projects and subprojects.
6) Facilitating relationships between xml.apache.org and the external
world.
7) Overseeing xml.apache.org to ensure that the mission defined in
this document is being fulfilled.
8) Resolving conflicts within the project.
Every 12 months, each subproject of xml.apache.org will nominate 1-2
individuals to represent them on the PMC. To become a sub-project's
representative on the PMC, an individual must be nominated by a
contributor, unanimously approved by all PMC members, and approved by
a two-thirds majority of the sub-project's active committers. In most
cases, developers will have actively contributed to development for
at least six months before being considered for membership on the PMC.
In cases where the sub-project is unable to directly provide a
representative on the PMC, another member of the PMC will be required to
represent that sub-project on the PMC.
In the unlikely event that a member of the PMC becomes disruptive to
the process or ceases to make codebase contributions for an extended
period, said member may be removed by unanimous vote of remaining PMC
members.
The PMC is responsible for maintaining and updating this
charter. Development must follow the process outlined below, so any
change to the development process necessitates a change to the
charter. Changes must be unanimously approved by all members of the
PMC. A contributor may challenge a change to the charter at any time
and ask for a vote of all xml.apache.org active committers, in which
case a two-thirds majority must approve the change.
Cheers,
Berin
Ted Leung wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> It's been some time since we had any discussion on the charter, and we
> really should get this all taken care of. Here's a proposal for getting
> this done.
>
> 1. Let's take between now and Monday June 9 for any addtional wording
> changes that people feel are necessary
> 2. If possible let's have a vote on the new charter between June 9 and 16.
>
> We also need to elect a new PMC chair, so here's a parallel proposal for
> doing that:
>
> 1. Let's take between now and Monday June 9 for nominations for the chair
> 2. Let's have a vote between June 9 and 16.
>
> The current members of the XML PMC are:
>
> Scott Boag
> Andy Clark
> Shane Curcuru
> Christian Geuer-Pollmann
> Neil Graham
> Kip Hampton
> Vincent Hardy
> Berin Lautenbach
> Ted Leung
> Jeremias Maerki
> Steven Noels
> Santiago Pericas-Geertsen
> Gareth Reakes
> Gianugo Rabellino
> Sam Ruby
> Matt Sergeant
> Ilene Seelemann
> Kimbro Staken
> Jason Stewart
> Jeff Turner
> Dirk-Willem van Gulik
> Peter B. West
> PeiYong Zhang
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> In case of troubles, e-mail: webmaster@xml.apache.org
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@xml.apache.org
>
>
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