72 hours rule.

[jan i <ja...@apache.org>]

Hi.

I am not sure if this is the right place for such a question/suggestion,
but better here than nowhere :-)

I have lately been meet with confusion in 2 situations, both at ASF
community level (at least if you look from a distance).

Lazy consensus defines "silence is consensus", but projects (like e.g.
labs) tends to redefine this rule:

"Every ASF committer can ask for one or more labs. The creation of the lab
requires a PMC lazy consensus vote (at least three +1 and no -1, 72 hours)"

In my mind this sentence is hard to understand, does it mean:
a) PMC who dont send an explicit +1/-1 cast a +1 == "silence is concensus"
or
b) 3 +1 pmc votes is needed, so the rules of  "lazy consensus" does not
apply

The people who wrote the lines I quote are all much more experienced in
"the apache way" than I am, but I believe its important that newcomers
(like myself) can read and understand what is written, without having to
read "between the lines".

I suggest, that we make an effort to at least at ASF community level, not
to confuse, but to be precise. I believe it would be correct to append [1]
with:

"Lazy consensus cannot be used, if the project requires a minimum number of
+1 for the proposal to be accepted"

@labs, please dont feel targeted, I am not picking on your project (which I
happen to believe is VERY important, and much too unknown"), but allowing
myself to use your good website as documentation for my point.

rgds
jan I.


[1] http://community.apache.org/committers/lazyConsensus.html<http://community.apache.org/committers/lazyConsensus.html>

Re: 72 hours rule.

[sebb <se...@gmail.com>]

The foundation glossary is here

http://www.apache.org/foundation/glossary.html


On 15 December 2013 20:29, Tim Williams <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Like most things around here, it's best to ask in the specific
> community where you find the confusion.  In the case of Labs, it's a
> known issue[1].  If you want to help us (labs) improve the situation,
> that'd be great.  There's history in our mail archives.
>
> Thanks,
> --tim
>
> [1] - https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LABS-512
>
> On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 10:21 AM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Hi.
>>
>> I am not sure if this is the right place for such a question/suggestion, but
>> better here than nowhere :-)
>>
>> I have lately been meet with confusion in 2 situations, both at ASF
>> community level (at least if you look from a distance).
>>
>> Lazy consensus defines "silence is consensus", but projects (like e.g. labs)
>> tends to redefine this rule:
>>
>> "Every ASF committer can ask for one or more labs. The creation of the lab
>> requires a PMC lazy consensus vote (at least three +1 and no -1, 72 hours)"
>>
>> In my mind this sentence is hard to understand, does it mean:
>> a) PMC who dont send an explicit +1/-1 cast a +1 == "silence is concensus"
>> or
>> b) 3 +1 pmc votes is needed, so the rules of  "lazy consensus" does not
>> apply
>>
>> The people who wrote the lines I quote are all much more experienced in "the
>> apache way" than I am, but I believe its important that newcomers (like
>> myself) can read and understand what is written, without having to read
>> "between the lines".
>>
>> I suggest, that we make an effort to at least at ASF community level, not to
>> confuse, but to be precise. I believe it would be correct to append [1]
>> with:
>>
>> "Lazy consensus cannot be used, if the project requires a minimum number of
>> +1 for the proposal to be accepted"
>>
>> @labs, please dont feel targeted, I am not picking on your project (which I
>> happen to believe is VERY important, and much too unknown"), but allowing
>> myself to use your good website as documentation for my point.
>>
>> rgds
>> jan I.
>>
>>
>> [1] http://community.apache.org/committers/lazyConsensus.html
>>
>
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