Re: Playboy mirror logo?

[James Mitchell <jm...@apache.org>]

How do you propose we do that?  How do you define "large segment of our
users"?

Is it:
 * The people who download the software.
 * The people who install the software.
 * The people who make the decisions that allow us
   to download and install the software.
 * The people who are stupid enough to believe what the
   Microsoft sales force tells them about Open Source
   software and what sites The Apache Software Foundation
   links to.

I fear that you will _never_ be able to poll the "large segment of our
users".

I don't claim to speak for this large segment.  I am only one business
owner/developer who happens to monitor these discussions and participate
(time permitting) in this community.

For what it's worth, I've already gotten feedback from an existing client of
mine who has several of Apache subproject's "powered by" icons on their site
(they provide Financial Services).  The are concerned about this and they
want me to keep them posted with a decision.  Funny, the IT guy said this
would probably hit the media and have a positive effect for the
anti-Microsoft camp simply by boosting exposure for Apache.  On the flip
side though, it will affect the decision makers who let us put "powered by"
links on their application.

Anyway, I'm sure there is no right or wrong answer to this and I'll support
whatever decision is made.  Even if is the wrong one :P


--
James Mitchell
Software Engineer / Open Source Evangelist
EdgeTech, Inc.
678.910.8017
AIM: jmitchtx

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Slive" <jo...@slive.ca>
To: "Martin Kraemer" <ma...@apache.org>
Cc: "Apache Infrastructure" <in...@apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: Playboy mirror logo?


>
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Martin Kraemer wrote:
> > Many companies (mine included) block *.playboy.com, and being
> > redirected to it is not a choice of the end user (but the
> > geo/randomizer in closer.cgi!).
> > Many end users may then be redirected to a URL that results in a
> > [403 Forbidden] page. I wonder if that is a good decision, and we
> > should IMHO ask for a mirror URL that does not end in playboy.com
> >
> > Opinions?
>
> If anyone can provide a concrete number (or at least guestimate) showing
> that this will affect a large segment of our users, or if we get more than
> one or two complaints about it from our users, I'll pull the mirror for
> pragmatic technical reasons.
>
> I just don't want to do it because of some hypothetical issue.
>
> And also note that, while the mirror system provides a suggested mirror by
> default, there is always the opportunity to choose another mirror from the
> list.  (But I agree that some segment of our users will be confused and
> won't figure this out.)
>
> Joshua.
>



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RE: Playboy mirror logo?

["Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>]

I'm curious if the people whose firewalls block *.playboy.com and
*.playboyenterprises.com are able to access http://216.163.142.135/ at all.

	--- Noel


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RE: Playboy mirror logo?

["William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>]

At 08:16 PM 8/26/2004, Noel J. Bergman wrote:

>I'm not quite sure how you interpreted my question to be a demand that
>someone change a domain name.  However, if they want to be a mirror and *IF*
>their domain is widely blocked, thereby rendering the service ineffective,
>they might well be willing to add an entry into their DNS, so that
>mirrors.playboy.com and mirrors.playboyenterprises.com are the same place.

This makes perfect sense.

Caviat - search google (with content filtering off) for any
site:mirrors.playboy.com

--- it doesn't seem anyone links to them (yet.)

Bill



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Re: Playboy mirror logo?

[Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>]

--On Thursday, August 26, 2004 3:37 PM +1000 Ian Holsman <li...@holsman.net> 
wrote:

> mirror.au.apache.org or something which just does a round robin on available
> mirrors in the 'au' region.. that the downloader only sees
> a 'apache' domain. but this would should be a 'global' change.. not just
> for the mirrors some people don't like.

IMHO, DNS-based round-robin makes it harder to provide the ability to route 
around broken mirrors for three reasons:

1) harder to insert/remove them dynamically: mirrors.cgi can use our freshness 
metrics gathered by mirmon to only show mirrors that have updated since a 
particular time (we want this for sec releases)

2) we'd have to update DNS on every status change: mirrors go stale and we 
take them out of active list and insert them when the problem is fixed (this 
is automated right now by mirmon)

3) doesn't allow the user to avoid a mirror that is broken (but we haven't 
noticed yet); additionally, it provides the user the ability to select a 
mirror that they know is close to them or have a particularly good connection 
to.

My $.02.  -- justin

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RE: Playboy mirror logo?

["Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>]

Ian Holsman wrote:
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>> I am talking purely about the technical issue of people being
>>> unable to download the software from mirrors.playboy.com.  I
>>> am not talking about the logo/link to playboyenterprises.com.
>> Would a mirrors.playboyenterprises.com domain be less technically
>> problematic?  Is that also widely blocked, or just *.playboy.com?
> why should we force a dontator to change their domain for us?

I'm not quite sure how you interpreted my question to be a demand that
someone change a domain name.  However, if they want to be a mirror and *IF*
their domain is widely blocked, thereby rendering the service ineffective,
they might well be willing to add an entry into their DNS, so that
mirrors.playboy.com and mirrors.playboyenterprises.com are the same place.

> we could always create a set of DNS names which we use to refer to our
> mirrors like kde

We could use CNAME RR so that we don't have to change our zone whenever
someone's IP changes, but Justin has explained some of the downsides.  And
it won't help if they are blocked by IP (firewall) instead of domain name
(DNS).

	--- Noel


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Re: Playboy mirror logo?

[Ian Holsman <li...@holsman.net>]

Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>I am talking purely about the technical issue of people being
>>unable to download the software from mirrors.playboy.com.  I
>>am not talking about the logo/link to playboyenterprises.com.
> 
> 
> Would a mirrors.playboyenterprises.com domain be less technically
> problematic?  Is that also widely blocked, or just *.playboy.com?

why should we force a dontator to change their domain for us?

If we want to take his bandwidth, we should be willing to take his 
domain/logo as well.

off-topic..
we could always create a set of DNS names which we use to refer to our
mirrors like kde

mirror.au.apache.org or something which just does a round robin on 
available mirrors in the 'au' region.. that the downloader only sees
a 'apache' domain. but this would should be a 'global' change.. not just
for the mirrors some people don't like.

--Ian
> 
> 	--- Noel
> 
> 
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> 


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RE: Playboy mirror logo?

["Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>]

> I am talking purely about the technical issue of people being
> unable to download the software from mirrors.playboy.com.  I
> am not talking about the logo/link to playboyenterprises.com.

Would a mirrors.playboyenterprises.com domain be less technically
problematic?  Is that also widely blocked, or just *.playboy.com?

	--- Noel


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Re: Playboy mirror logo?

[Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>]

Please stop copying board on every message.


On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, James Mitchell wrote:

> How do you propose we do that?  How do you define "large segment of our
> users"?

My email has nothing to do with your complaint.  I am talking purely about 
the technical issue of people being unable to download the software from 
mirrors.playboy.com.  I am not talking about the logo/link to 
playboyenterprises.com.

Joshua.

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