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Posted to users@spamassassin.apache.org by spectacularstuff <we...@spectacularstuff.com> on 2006/06/03 05:44:42 UTC
Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
We already have SA setup and working with Smartermail.
We would like to hire someone that is familiar with SpamAssassin and a
Windows 2003 server system in order to come set this thing up so that our
own emails are not being detected as SPAM.
Is anyone interested in this?
If you are interested leave me a way to get in contact with you.
Thanks,
Wayne
-------------------------------------------
We already have Spam Assassin set up and working. I have done as much as I
can figure out how to do and am capable of and I still cannot get these
errors gone. I am done trying. (If anyone didn't see my previous post, I
was interested in help with removing the NO_DNS_FOR_FROM DNS:
Envelope sender has no MX or A DNS records.
I have checked, we have MX and A DNS, it is set up correctly, I have our
emails on whitelist received from, I have our IPs on Whitelist Froms and
Trusted Networks. I still cannot get rid of SA reporting that we do not
have that and tacking on 2.6 points onto our emails because of it.
--
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Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by WFGB Team <we...@spectacularstuff.com>.
Hi Stephanie,
You kind of lost me there. If all emails were going through SMFilter
whether they were our emails or not, wouldn't all emails, including SPAM
have those headers in them and therefore receive a negative score?
Thanks for the reply,
Wayne
-------Original Message-------
From: Stephen Sloan
Date: 06/03/06 13:20:48
To: WFGB Team
Cc: users@spamassassin.apache.org
Subject: Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
If SMFilter adds its own headers, couldn't you just write a custom rule for
SA that gives any message with those headers a negative score?
----- Original Message -----
From: WFGB Team
To: Sanford Whiteman
Cc: users@spamassassin.apache.org
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Wow Thanks Sandy,
I have talked to the SM tech support and have searched through their forum
but they believe this is SA issue.
That makes a lot of sense. Yes, I am familiar with writing batch files. I
am not a god at writing them but I can read and write them.
Yes we do use SMFilter but we call the spamassassin.bat from it. (I didn't
know we could compile an exe file)
Now, here is the issue I see with the bat file.
There are millions of key phrases. Is there a way in the bat file to point
it to some type of a list such as the one spam assassin already has or some
type of a database.
If I utilize: head -10 %1 | find /I /c "string" then this is going to
require me to enter each string on a separate line.
If I can utilize that from the SA database that already has these items then
it will never go into SA?
Then that brings me to a point of asking, If I can utilize the SA Database
using that method, then what good is SA?
Thanks again for the advice on that. I will check into the SM forums to ask
about that.
Wayne
-------Original Message-------
From: Sanford Whiteman
Date: 06/03/06 04:51:00
To: spectacularstuff; users@spamassassin.apache.org
Subject: Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
> We already have SA setup and working with Smartermail.
Well, not really. I'd say part and parcel of any SA-MTA integration is
finding a way to whitelist messages _before SA is launched_, thus (a)
saving you SA's CPU and disk time (esp. since you're using
process-based spamassassin and not client/server spamc/spamd), and (b)
eliminating problems like this caused when DNS and/or local content
issues force SA to judge your messages as spammy. SA itself is not the
place for true whitelisting; you really want to do this pre-SA.
Anyway, SmarterMail shells to the external command-line you specify --
you may be calling SMFilter (a tiny wrapper for Clam and
SpamAssassin), or calling spamassassin.bat or compiled
spamassassin.exe directly -- passing the body file name as last
argument. You can thus retrieve the body file name from within a batch
file as %1, if you've ever worked with batch file syntax.
Within the first couple of headers added by SmarterMail, you'll see
whether the mail was submitted by an authenticated user or not. I
don't know their exact syntax offhand, but I know that SM does pass
the authentication info to external apps. Ask on the SM forum what the
exact string'll be. Then I'd suggest writing a batch file that, at the
very top before calling spamassassin, uses a text search/replace
utility to search only the first, say, 10 lines for a known string and
skips calling SA if the string is found. Pseudo-batch:
head -10 %1 | find /i /c "string"
if %ERRORLEVEL%==0
(exit from batch file and return to smartermail, mail was auth'd)
else
(scan with SA, since authentication string was not found)
This example uses the unxtools version of head.exe, which you can get
from http://gnuwin.epfl.ch/apps/unxutils/en/index.html.
While you may not be comfortable with this course of action either, it
does tap into a different skill set that may be more familiar to you
than DNS. You should have a way going forward of excluding mail from
being even touched by SA.
BTW, I consider this a SmarterMail issue as much as an SA one, and as
such I hope you have been thorough enough to ask on their forum, or at
least you will now.
--Sandy
.
Re[2]: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by Sanford Whiteman <sw...@cypressintegrated.com>.
> If SMFilter adds its own headers, couldn't you just write a custom
> rule for SA that gives any message with those headers a negative
> score?
SMFilter doesn't add anything; SM does add an "authenticated" header.
But rather than plunge Wayne into SA rules -- which are still the
wrong place to bypass SA, and where he is clearly less comfortable --
I am encouraging a solution at his wrapper/caller layer that will both
save considerable resources and possibly be more in his comfort zone.
--Sandy
Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by Stephen Sloan <ss...@mincocorp.com>.
If SMFilter adds its own headers, couldn't you just write a custom rule for
SA that gives any message with those headers a negative score?
----- Original Message -----
From: WFGB Team
To: Sanford Whiteman
Cc: users@spamassassin.apache.org
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Wow Thanks Sandy,
I have talked to the SM tech support and have searched through their forum
but they believe this is SA issue.
That makes a lot of sense. Yes, I am familiar with writing batch files. I
am not a god at writing them but I can read and write them.
Yes we do use SMFilter but we call the spamassassin.bat from it. (I didn't
know we could compile an exe file)
Now, here is the issue I see with the bat file.
There are millions of key phrases. Is there a way in the bat file to point
it to some type of a list such as the one spam assassin already has or some
type of a database.
If I utilize: head -10 %1 | find /I /c "string" then this is going to
require me to enter each string on a separate line.
If I can utilize that from the SA database that already has these items then
it will never go into SA?
Then that brings me to a point of asking, If I can utilize the SA Database
using that method, then what good is SA?
Thanks again for the advice on that. I will check into the SM forums to ask
about that.
Wayne
-------Original Message-------
From: Sanford Whiteman
Date: 06/03/06 04:51:00
To: spectacularstuff; users@spamassassin.apache.org
Subject: Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
> We already have SA setup and working with Smartermail.
Well, not really. I'd say part and parcel of any SA-MTA integration is
finding a way to whitelist messages _before SA is launched_, thus (a)
saving you SA's CPU and disk time (esp. since you're using
process-based spamassassin and not client/server spamc/spamd), and (b)
eliminating problems like this caused when DNS and/or local content
issues force SA to judge your messages as spammy. SA itself is not the
place for true whitelisting; you really want to do this pre-SA.
Anyway, SmarterMail shells to the external command-line you specify --
you may be calling SMFilter (a tiny wrapper for Clam and
SpamAssassin), or calling spamassassin.bat or compiled
spamassassin.exe directly -- passing the body file name as last
argument. You can thus retrieve the body file name from within a batch
file as %1, if you've ever worked with batch file syntax.
Within the first couple of headers added by SmarterMail, you'll see
whether the mail was submitted by an authenticated user or not. I
don't know their exact syntax offhand, but I know that SM does pass
the authentication info to external apps. Ask on the SM forum what the
exact string'll be. Then I'd suggest writing a batch file that, at the
very top before calling spamassassin, uses a text search/replace
utility to search only the first, say, 10 lines for a known string and
skips calling SA if the string is found. Pseudo-batch:
head -10 %1 | find /i /c "string"
if %ERRORLEVEL%==0
(exit from batch file and return to smartermail, mail was auth'd)
else
(scan with SA, since authentication string was not found)
This example uses the unxtools version of head.exe, which you can get
from http://gnuwin.epfl.ch/apps/unxutils/en/index.html.
While you may not be comfortable with this course of action either, it
does tap into a different skill set that may be more familiar to you
than DNS. You should have a way going forward of excluding mail from
being even touched by SA.
BTW, I consider this a SmarterMail issue as much as an SA one, and as
such I hope you have been thorough enough to ask on their forum, or at
least you will now.
--Sandy
Re[2]: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by Sanford Whiteman <sw...@cypressintegrated.com>.
> I have talked to the SM tech support and have searched through their
> forum but they believe this is SA issue.
P.S. You didn't start *a new thread* on their forum, which is as much
community-supported as vendor-supported. This is not being thorough,
for what seems like an urgent issue.
--Sandy
Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by WFGB Team <we...@spectacularstuff.com>.
Thanks for setting that straight. I was confused on what we were searching
for. I didn't realize I was searching the header. I thought I was
searching the body of the document for spamming keywords.
Wayne
-------Original Message-------
From: Sanford Whiteman
Date: 06/03/06 13:47:18
To: WFGB Team; users@spamassassin.apache.org
Subject: Re[2]: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
> I have talked to the SM tech support and have searched through their
> forum but they believe this is SA issue.
It is and it isn't. The fact that they don't have a simple way of
skipping their external test (and they have had many, many bugs over
the past few years relating to incomplete bypassing of auth'd or
whitelist'd mails) is an essential design flaw. That they are pushing
back at you like that, instead of at least saying they'll add the
feature in the future, is typical of their developers... and is the
reason I never adopted SM.
> That makes a lot of sense. Yes, I am familiar with writing batch
> files. I am not a god at writing them but I can read and write them.
Okay, you should be off to the races.
> Yes we do use SMFilter but we call the spamassassin.bat from it. (I
> didn't know we could compile an exe file)
No matter. How you're calling SA (bat or exe), when you call it, is
pretty much immaterial now. What you need to do is insert a layer
above everything else, so that you have SM run _your batch file_,
which in turn _optionally_ runs SMFilter or whatever you want.
> Now, here is the issue I see with the bat file.
> There are millions of key phrases.
Really?
Isn't the key phrase just the "authenticated..." line? Did you ask SM
about that? _That's_ the only thing you need to search on.
> Is there a way in the bat file to point it to some type of a list
> such as the one spam assassin already has or some type of a
> database.
In a sense, yes, but you don't need to do that.
> If I utilize: head -10 %1 | find /I /c "string" then this is going
> to require me to enter each string on a separate line.
I think you're confused about what you're searching for. The idea is
to catch the header flag that means "this mail was auth'd."
> Then that brings me to a point of asking, If I can utilize the SA
> Database using that method, then what good is SA?
The answer to that is way off this topic. Using a find command against
a filter file is a tiny subset of what SA does.
--Sandy
.
Re[3]: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by Sanford Whiteman <sw...@cypressintegrated.com>.
Wayne,
Pro bono, here's the way to get SmarterMail to bypass SpamAssassin for
authenticated users.
BACKGROUND after playing around with SM for a few minutes
----------
Like many/most MTAs, SM writes two spool files for every e-mail. One
is the message header/body, the other is the message envelope. In
naming the former, SM uses a message number + the extension .EML. THe
latter uses the same message number + the extension .HDR. So for every
message, there will be two files in the spool like so:
1234545.EML
1234345.HDR
In the HDR file for SMTP AUTH-enticated e-mails -- and only in those
e-mails -- there's a line that begins with the string 'auth'. What you
need is thus for your SpamAssassin caller to quick-check the contents
of the HDR file before deciding whether or not it should call
SpamAssassin.
HOWTO
-----
(1) Go to SM Admin and choose Settings-General Settings-Spool tab.
(2) Check the value in 'Command-line file to run on new mail.' You
will see a value like
c:\progra~1\spamassassin\spamassassin.bat %filepath
or maybe
c:\smfilter\smfilter.exe %filepath
or similar.
(3) Copy the string to the left of '%filepath' to the clipboard. That
is, just the 'c:\smfilter\smfilter.exe' part in the second example.
(4) Open a new batch file. Here are the first two lines of the batch
file:
for /f %%I in ('echo %1') do find /i /c "auth" %%~dI%%~pI%%~nI.hdr
if %ERRORLEVEL%==0 exit
You must copy-and-paste or retype these lines exactly as shown.
(5) The third and final line of the batch file will be the value you
copied out in step (3) followed by the string '%1' (no quotes). If you
copied out 'c:\smfilter\smfilter.exe' in (3) then the third line of
the batch will be
c:\smfilter\smfilter.exe %1
(6) Save the three-line batch file as WLAUTH.CMD in a path you choose.
You can put it wherever SM was installed. For example, say you save it
to c:\progra~1\spamassassin\wlauth.cmd.
(7) Go back into the SM Admin page. Now replace the contents of the
'Command-line file...' box with your batch file name, followed by the
string '%filepath' (no quotes). If you saved the batch file as
c:\progra~1\spamassassin\wlauth.cmd, the value will be:
c:\progra~1\spamassassin\wlauth.cmd %filepath
(8) Save changes in SM Admin.
You now have a system that prechecks for auth'd users and doesn't run
SpamAssassin against their mail. QED.
That'll be $4500. LOL. Contact me off-list if you have probs.
--Sandy
Re[2]: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by Sanford Whiteman <sw...@cypressintegrated.com>.
> I have talked to the SM tech support and have searched through their
> forum but they believe this is SA issue.
It is and it isn't. The fact that they don't have a simple way of
skipping their external test (and they have had many, many bugs over
the past few years relating to incomplete bypassing of auth'd or
whitelist'd mails) is an essential design flaw. That they are pushing
back at you like that, instead of at least saying they'll add the
feature in the future, is typical of their developers... and is the
reason I never adopted SM.
> That makes a lot of sense. Yes, I am familiar with writing batch
> files. I am not a god at writing them but I can read and write them.
Okay, you should be off to the races.
> Yes we do use SMFilter but we call the spamassassin.bat from it. (I
> didn't know we could compile an exe file)
No matter. How you're calling SA (bat or exe), when you call it, is
pretty much immaterial now. What you need to do is insert a layer
above everything else, so that you have SM run _your batch file_,
which in turn _optionally_ runs SMFilter or whatever you want.
> Now, here is the issue I see with the bat file.
> There are millions of key phrases.
Really?
Isn't the key phrase just the "authenticated..." line? Did you ask SM
about that? _That's_ the only thing you need to search on.
> Is there a way in the bat file to point it to some type of a list
> such as the one spam assassin already has or some type of a
> database.
In a sense, yes, but you don't need to do that.
> If I utilize: head -10 %1 | find /I /c "string" then this is going
> to require me to enter each string on a separate line.
I think you're confused about what you're searching for. The idea is
to catch the header flag that means "this mail was auth'd."
> Then that brings me to a point of asking, If I can utilize the SA
> Database using that method, then what good is SA?
The answer to that is way off this topic. Using a find command against
a filter file is a tiny subset of what SA does.
--Sandy
Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by WFGB Team <we...@spectacularstuff.com>.
Wow Thanks Sandy,
I have talked to the SM tech support and have searched through their forum
but they believe this is SA issue.
That makes a lot of sense. Yes, I am familiar with writing batch files. I
am not a god at writing them but I can read and write them.
Yes we do use SMFilter but we call the spamassassin.bat from it. (I didn't
know we could compile an exe file)
Now, here is the issue I see with the bat file.
There are millions of key phrases. Is there a way in the bat file to point
it to some type of a list such as the one spam assassin already has or some
type of a database.
If I utilize: head -10 %1 | find /I /c "string" then this is going to
require me to enter each string on a separate line.
If I can utilize that from the SA database that already has these items then
it will never go into SA?
Then that brings me to a point of asking, If I can utilize the SA Database
using that method, then what good is SA?
Thanks again for the advice on that. I will check into the SM forums to ask
about that.
Wayne
-------Original Message-------
From: Sanford Whiteman
Date: 06/03/06 04:51:00
To: spectacularstuff; users@spamassassin.apache.org
Subject: Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
> We already have SA setup and working with Smartermail.
Well, not really. I'd say part and parcel of any SA-MTA integration is
finding a way to whitelist messages _before SA is launched_, thus (a)
saving you SA's CPU and disk time (esp. since you're using
process-based spamassassin and not client/server spamc/spamd), and (b)
eliminating problems like this caused when DNS and/or local content
issues force SA to judge your messages as spammy. SA itself is not the
place for true whitelisting; you really want to do this pre-SA.
Anyway, SmarterMail shells to the external command-line you specify --
you may be calling SMFilter (a tiny wrapper for Clam and
SpamAssassin), or calling spamassassin.bat or compiled
spamassassin.exe directly -- passing the body file name as last
argument. You can thus retrieve the body file name from within a batch
file as %1, if you've ever worked with batch file syntax.
Within the first couple of headers added by SmarterMail, you'll see
whether the mail was submitted by an authenticated user or not. I
don't know their exact syntax offhand, but I know that SM does pass
the authentication info to external apps. Ask on the SM forum what the
exact string'll be. Then I'd suggest writing a batch file that, at the
very top before calling spamassassin, uses a text search/replace
utility to search only the first, say, 10 lines for a known string and
skips calling SA if the string is found. Pseudo-batch:
head -10 %1 | find /i /c "string"
if %ERRORLEVEL%==0
(exit from batch file and return to smartermail, mail was auth'd)
else
(scan with SA, since authentication string was not found)
This example uses the unxtools version of head.exe, which you can get
from http://gnuwin.epfl.ch/apps/unxutils/en/index.html.
While you may not be comfortable with this course of action either, it
does tap into a different skill set that may be more familiar to you
than DNS. You should have a way going forward of excluding mail from
being even touched by SA.
BTW, I consider this a SmarterMail issue as much as an SA one, and as
such I hope you have been thorough enough to ask on their forum, or at
least you will now.
--Sandy
Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by Sanford Whiteman <sw...@cypressintegrated.com>.
> We already have SA setup and working with Smartermail.
Well, not really. I'd say part and parcel of any SA-MTA integration is
finding a way to whitelist messages _before SA is launched_, thus (a)
saving you SA's CPU and disk time (esp. since you're using
process-based spamassassin and not client/server spamc/spamd), and (b)
eliminating problems like this caused when DNS and/or local content
issues force SA to judge your messages as spammy. SA itself is not the
place for true whitelisting; you really want to do this pre-SA.
Anyway, SmarterMail shells to the external command-line you specify --
you may be calling SMFilter (a tiny wrapper for Clam and
SpamAssassin), or calling spamassassin.bat or compiled
spamassassin.exe directly -- passing the body file name as last
argument. You can thus retrieve the body file name from within a batch
file as %1, if you've ever worked with batch file syntax.
Within the first couple of headers added by SmarterMail, you'll see
whether the mail was submitted by an authenticated user or not. I
don't know their exact syntax offhand, but I know that SM does pass
the authentication info to external apps. Ask on the SM forum what the
exact string'll be. Then I'd suggest writing a batch file that, at the
very top before calling spamassassin, uses a text search/replace
utility to search only the first, say, 10 lines for a known string and
skips calling SA if the string is found. Pseudo-batch:
head -10 %1 | find /i /c "string"
if %ERRORLEVEL%==0
(exit from batch file and return to smartermail, mail was auth'd)
else
(scan with SA, since authentication string was not found)
This example uses the unxtools version of head.exe, which you can get
from http://gnuwin.epfl.ch/apps/unxutils/en/index.html.
While you may not be comfortable with this course of action either, it
does tap into a different skill set that may be more familiar to you
than DNS. You should have a way going forward of excluding mail from
being even touched by SA.
BTW, I consider this a SmarterMail issue as much as an SA one, and as
such I hope you have been thorough enough to ask on their forum, or at
least you will now.
--Sandy
Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by spectacularstuff <we...@spectacularstuff.com>.
Thank you everyone for your quotes, efforts and time involved. We actually
have this issue resolved now. Created a batch to interface in with
Smartermail to bypass the SA checking.
Wayne
--
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RE: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by spectacularstuff <we...@spectacularstuff.com>.
I understand the issue of troubleshooting and repair.
How long I have worked on it is irrelavant as I have alreayd said, I don't
know what I am doing. If I did have the knowledge I would be able to fix it
and more than likely, quickly.
I personally work in computer repair, not in Server Setup or DNS. This is
new territory to me.
The 30 minutes to 2 hours is just for checking the server DNS.
We have already had someone quote 10 or so issues above within 5 minutes.
I personally don't know how to read what he was quoting.
I asked for an hourly rate for corporate, not myself. Visa versa, Corporate
has not business relations with you, why would they pay you up front?
This is where business relations start. They have to start somewhere. We
have people that charge by the job and people that charge by the hour.
We have had a few quotes by the hour and I can bring those back to
corporate.
If you are telling me you want me to go back to corporate and say,
Well, it will be $1000.00 even though this guy doesn't need to come out, has
no overhead, and basically will look at it, figure the issue out, change
some things and wait 3 days. I can't do that. They will kick me right out
of the room and deny the request and tell me to live with it the way that it
is.
Now, if you really needed to come out, then I could get them to turn their
heads however for this issue, there is no onsite service requested nor
needed.
Wayne
--
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Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by spectacularstuff <we...@spectacularstuff.com>.
LMAO.... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..... Now that's funny!
Hey, no monkeying around... here.
--------
(|(ô)Y(ô)|) <~~~ You like my self portrait?
o
(-----)
v
Wayne
--
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Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by jdow <jd...@earthlink.net>.
The hours cost one price. The knowledge costs another.
$1.28 to kick the machine.
$19,998.72 for knowing where to kick.
This is no joke. If it saves $2e6 bucks it's a great deal, eh?
{^_-}
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Allen" <sa...@floridacpu.com>
> You say the problem is 30 min to 2 hours. But you have been working on it
> for how long and not fixed it?
>
> You are probably over-simplifying the issue (maybe, maybe not). When you
> quote a job you have to plan for worse case. Dealing with vendors, dns
> issues, propagation issues, looking at the entire email setup and then
> diagnosing and testing.
>
> Then you have the issue of you wanting to pay by the hour.
>
> Why would someone with no business relationship with you work on an hourly
> basis?
>
> How could they ensure getting paid from you in such a situation?
>
> You may have a hard time hiring someone for this. I doubt many would work
> without being paid up-front. And you appear to think it is a 30 min to 2
> hour job. So, what's that mean? You think the job is worth $30-$150? And you
> will send a check after the work if you feel like it? Or you send payment of
> $30-$150 up-front for the job and the tech finds it's a 3 day job once he
> gets into it?
>
> Just my thoughts.
>
> Good luck.
>
> I hope you find someone that can work a deal with you.
>
> This is my last post on this subject
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: spectacularstuff [mailto:webmaster@spectacularstuff.com]
>>
>> If you are going to make remarks, please state all of the facts,
>>
>> 1. We do not require onsite service.
>> 2. Guarantees are accepted.
>> 3. Trying to justify the cost because propagation will take 2-3
>> days (which
>> you and I both know, usually takes 24 hours or less in most of
>> the places.
>> 72 hours is a fail safe time frame.) is not acceptable.
>> Especially when you
>> will work for about 30 minutes - 2 hours fixing the issue and
>> then wait the
>> other 1 - 3 days for it to propagate, (not working for corporate might I
>> add). They don't mind paying for service, but they are not stupid!
>>
>> If I bring that back to corporate, they will tell me the same thing I told
>> you. No, we do not need onsite service for this. You can do it
>> remotely.
>> No, you are not approved for that.
>>
>> Wayne
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://www.nabble.com/Hiring-for-Spam-Assassin-Troubleshooting-t17
>> 26230.html#a4690812
>> Sent from the SpamAssassin - Users forum at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>>
RE: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by Greg Allen <sa...@floridacpu.com>.
You say the problem is 30 min to 2 hours. But you have been working on it
for how long and not fixed it?
You are probably over-simplifying the issue (maybe, maybe not). When you
quote a job you have to plan for worse case. Dealing with vendors, dns
issues, propagation issues, looking at the entire email setup and then
diagnosing and testing.
Then you have the issue of you wanting to pay by the hour.
Why would someone with no business relationship with you work on an hourly
basis?
How could they ensure getting paid from you in such a situation?
You may have a hard time hiring someone for this. I doubt many would work
without being paid up-front. And you appear to think it is a 30 min to 2
hour job. So, what's that mean? You think the job is worth $30-$150? And you
will send a check after the work if you feel like it? Or you send payment of
$30-$150 up-front for the job and the tech finds it's a 3 day job once he
gets into it?
Just my thoughts.
Good luck.
I hope you find someone that can work a deal with you.
This is my last post on this subject
> -----Original Message-----
> From: spectacularstuff [mailto:webmaster@spectacularstuff.com]
> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 1:43 AM
> To: users@spamassassin.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
>
>
>
> If you are going to make remarks, please state all of the facts,
>
> 1. We do not require onsite service.
> 2. Guarantees are accepted.
> 3. Trying to justify the cost because propagation will take 2-3
> days (which
> you and I both know, usually takes 24 hours or less in most of
> the places.
> 72 hours is a fail safe time frame.) is not acceptable.
> Especially when you
> will work for about 30 minutes - 2 hours fixing the issue and
> then wait the
> other 1 - 3 days for it to propagate, (not working for corporate might I
> add). They don't mind paying for service, but they are not stupid!
>
> If I bring that back to corporate, they will tell me the same thing I told
> you. No, we do not need onsite service for this. You can do it
> remotely.
> No, you are not approved for that.
>
> Wayne
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Hiring-for-Spam-Assassin-Troubleshooting-t17
> 26230.html#a4690812
> Sent from the SpamAssassin - Users forum at Nabble.com.
>
>
>
RE: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by spectacularstuff <we...@spectacularstuff.com>.
If you are going to make remarks, please state all of the facts,
1. We do not require onsite service.
2. Guarantees are accepted.
3. Trying to justify the cost because propagation will take 2-3 days (which
you and I both know, usually takes 24 hours or less in most of the places.
72 hours is a fail safe time frame.) is not acceptable. Especially when you
will work for about 30 minutes - 2 hours fixing the issue and then wait the
other 1 - 3 days for it to propagate, (not working for corporate might I
add). They don't mind paying for service, but they are not stupid!
If I bring that back to corporate, they will tell me the same thing I told
you. No, we do not need onsite service for this. You can do it remotely.
No, you are not approved for that.
Wayne
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Hiring-for-Spam-Assassin-Troubleshooting-t1726230.html#a4690812
Sent from the SpamAssassin - Users forum at Nabble.com.
RE: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by Greg Allen <sa...@floridacpu.com>.
Well, we already know you don't consider $1,000 for onsite service and a
money back guarantee reasonable.
;-)
> I would much rather fine someone to hire at a reasonable cost to
> come in and
> fix the errors that are making SA detect our own emails as SPAM.
>
> Wayne
> --
> View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Hiring-for-Spam-Assassin-Troubleshooting-t1726230.html
#a4690717
Sent from the SpamAssassin - Users forum at Nabble.com.
Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by spectacularstuff <we...@spectacularstuff.com>.
I am using the GUI interface for SA. I can also modify local.cf myself if
that is where you are talking about modifying it so the -D is in there.
Yes, our users are using their dynamic IPs from their comcast accounts, etc
etc etc.
I do understand that but what I am most interested in is the MX record being
taken away and I use an AWL so that removes some points but sometimes it
adds points to others... (I am not real sure how an AWL works when it starts
adding points to some of our emails and subtracting points to others)
Most of our users currently have a score of between 6 - 11 points for their
emails without baysean filtering. Some of the SPAMs we receive have scores
that low as well. We have 2 spam filters so I can essentially set the
points of SA to 12, let the SPAM's come through and as they do block their
subject lines with the other spam filter so it doesn't allow them to come
through. That can be cumbersome however.
I would much rather fine someone to hire at a reasonable cost to come in and
fix the errors that are making SA detect our own emails as SPAM.
Wayne
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Hiring-for-Spam-Assassin-Troubleshooting-t1726230.html#a4690717
Sent from the SpamAssassin - Users forum at Nabble.com.
Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by jdow <jd...@earthlink.net>.
OK, I take it SpamAssassin is running on Windows and not an "ix box"?
I hope you have some good luck tracking it down. Finding the expert you
need may be difficult. Can you modify whatever is running SpamAssassin
so that it adds a "-D " to the invocation of spamassassin or spamd as
appropriate? Run that REALLY briefly then go back to normal. The debug
logs might be interesting. Um, I'd not do this on a live system, either.
If you users are sending emails to your system directly from their
dynamically assigned addresses in various dialup lists I believe you
can pretty well kiss off having your system handle this without some
whitelisting which will leave you a huge spam hole.
{o.o}
----- Original Message -----
From: "spectacularstuff" <we...@spectacularstuff.com>
>
> We already have SA setup and working with Smartermail.
>
> We would like to hire someone that is familiar with SpamAssassin and a
> Windows 2003 server system in order to come set this thing up so that our
> own emails are not being detected as SPAM.
>
> Is anyone interested in this?
> If you are interested leave me a way to get in contact with you.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wayne
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> We already have Spam Assassin set up and working. I have done as much as I
> can figure out how to do and am capable of and I still cannot get these
> errors gone. I am done trying. (If anyone didn't see my previous post, I
> was interested in help with removing the NO_DNS_FOR_FROM DNS:
> Envelope sender has no MX or A DNS records.
>
> I have checked, we have MX and A DNS, it is set up correctly, I have our
> emails on whitelist received from, I have our IPs on Whitelist Froms and
> Trusted Networks. I still cannot get rid of SA reporting that we do not
> have that and tacking on 2.6 points onto our emails because of it.
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Hiring-for-Spam-Assassin-Troubleshooting-t1726230.html#a4690327
> Sent from the SpamAssassin - Users forum at Nabble.com.
>
Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by "Daryl C. W. O'Shea" <sp...@dostech.ca>.
On 6/3/2006 2:39 AM, spectacularstuff wrote:
> Hi again Daryl,
>
> I just need to know what you are asking to fix it. You know more than anyone
> what is going on with it. I can bring your bid back to corporate on Monday.
> Thanks for the reply. I was wondering if I was going to hear from you. :)
I'd have to be able to login and take a quick look around before I could
say what it's going to take to fix your issue, or if it's even possible
to fix with mail server software you are using.
Daryl
Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by spectacularstuff <we...@spectacularstuff.com>.
Hi again Daryl,
I just need to know what you are asking to fix it. You know more than anyone
what is going on with it. I can bring your bid back to corporate on Monday.
Thanks for the reply. I was wondering if I was going to hear from you. :)
Wayne
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Hiring-for-Spam-Assassin-Troubleshooting-t1726230.html#a4691040
Sent from the SpamAssassin - Users forum at Nabble.com.
Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by "Daryl C. W. O'Shea" <sp...@dostech.ca>.
On 6/2/2006 11:44 PM, spectacularstuff wrote:
> We already have SA setup and working with Smartermail. We would like to
> hire someone that is familiar with SpamAssassin and a Windows 2003
> server system in order to come set this thing up so that our own emails
> are not being detected as SPAM. Is anyone interested in this? If you are
> interested leave me a way to get in contact with you. Thanks, Wayne
> ------------------------------------------- We already have Spam
> Assassin set up and working. I have done as much as I can figure out how
> to do and am capable of and I still cannot get these errors gone. I am
> done trying. (If anyone didn't see my previous post, I was interested in
> help with removing the NO_DNS_FOR_FROM DNS: Envelope sender has no MX or
> A DNS records. I have checked, we have MX and A DNS, it is set up
> correctly, I have our emails on whitelist received from, I have our IPs
> on Whitelist Froms and Trusted Networks. I still cannot get rid of SA
> reporting that we do not have that and tacking on 2.6 points onto our
> emails because of it.
I've been known to fix people's problems after hearing from Amazon that
something (big) is on it's way or after getting an email from the fine
folks at PayPal.
Let me know what it's worth to you and I'll consider taking a look at
your setup to see if it's worth my time fixing.
Daryl
Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by WFGB Team <we...@spectacularstuff.com>.
Hi Jo,
I thank you very much for your advice and I wish I had the time to learn all
of that but the fact of the matter is I am out in the field from 10am until
around 1am, 6-7 days a week. I don't have the time. I would love to learn
all of that. It would be fantastic.
Wayne
-------Original Message-------
From: Jo
Date: 06/03/06 03:01:36
To: spectacularstuff
Cc: users@spamassassin.apache.org
Subject: Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
spectacularstuff wrote:
> We already have SA setup and working with Smartermail. We would like
> to hire someone that is familiar with SpamAssassin and a Windows 2003
> server system in order to come set this thing up so that our own
> emails are not being detected as SPAM. Is anyone interested in this?
> If you are interested leave me a way to get in contact with you.
> Thanks, Wayne ------------------------------------------- We already
> have Spam Assassin set up and working. I have done as much as I can
> figure out how to do and am capable of and I still cannot get these
> errors gone. I am done trying. (If anyone didn't see my previous post,
> I was interested in help with removing the NO_DNS_FOR_FROM DNS:
> Envelope sender has no MX or A DNS records. I have checked, we have MX
> and A DNS, it is set up correctly, I have our emails on whitelist
> received from, I have our IPs on Whitelist Froms and Trusted Networks.
> I still cannot get rid of SA reporting that we do not have that and
> tacking on 2.6 points onto our emails because of it.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> View this message in context: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
> <http://www.nabble.com/Hiring-for-Spam-Assassin-Troubleshooting-t1726230
html#a4690327>
> Sent from the SpamAssassin - Users
> <http://www.nabble.com/SpamAssassin---Users-f195.html> forum at
> Nabble.com.
Why don't you set up two mail servers? One for outgoing mail which
doesn't get checked and one for incoming mail? To do things properly I
would advise you to install Linux with Postfix. There is a wealth of
information on the internet on how to do this. It will probably take you
a month or two to set it all up, but the experience will be invaluable
and will help you for the rest of your career.
Of course for the mail filters on the other site to not flag the mails
of your users as spam, you will need to have proper DNS entries for all
your mail servers at the very least. With software like postfix it's
also possible to treat mail depending on where it comes from.
This is an article I like:
http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/netsecur/article.php/3399531
Kind regards,
Jo
Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by Jo <ml...@winfix.it>.
spectacularstuff wrote:
> We already have SA setup and working with Smartermail. We would like
> to hire someone that is familiar with SpamAssassin and a Windows 2003
> server system in order to come set this thing up so that our own
> emails are not being detected as SPAM. Is anyone interested in this?
> If you are interested leave me a way to get in contact with you.
> Thanks, Wayne ------------------------------------------- We already
> have Spam Assassin set up and working. I have done as much as I can
> figure out how to do and am capable of and I still cannot get these
> errors gone. I am done trying. (If anyone didn't see my previous post,
> I was interested in help with removing the NO_DNS_FOR_FROM DNS:
> Envelope sender has no MX or A DNS records. I have checked, we have MX
> and A DNS, it is set up correctly, I have our emails on whitelist
> received from, I have our IPs on Whitelist Froms and Trusted Networks.
> I still cannot get rid of SA reporting that we do not have that and
> tacking on 2.6 points onto our emails because of it.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> View this message in context: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
> <http://www.nabble.com/Hiring-for-Spam-Assassin-Troubleshooting-t1726230.html#a4690327>
> Sent from the SpamAssassin - Users
> <http://www.nabble.com/SpamAssassin---Users-f195.html> forum at
> Nabble.com.
Why don't you set up two mail servers? One for outgoing mail which
doesn't get checked and one for incoming mail? To do things properly I
would advise you to install Linux with Postfix. There is a wealth of
information on the internet on how to do this. It will probably take you
a month or two to set it all up, but the experience will be invaluable
and will help you for the rest of your career.
Of course for the mail filters on the other site to not flag the mails
of your users as spam, you will need to have proper DNS entries for all
your mail servers at the very least. With software like postfix it's
also possible to treat mail depending on where it comes from.
This is an article I like:
http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/netsecur/article.php/3399531
Kind regards,
Jo
Re: Hiring for Spam Assassin Troubleshooting
Posted by spectacularstuff <we...@spectacularstuff.com>.
Thanks for the reply. Most of that is greek to me. I have spent the better
part of 3 weeks not knowing what I am doing attempting to get this fixed. I
don't have anymore time left. We are looking to hire someone to come in and
do this.
This is not a very complicated setup. There is no exchange server. It is a
very basic, Windows 2003 dedicated server.
No onsite service is needed. We have remote capability.
It is already setup to work with Smartermail.
>From what I am hearing, this is a matter of setting some reverse DNS which
is set up in the control panel as supposed to be there and some of the
things that you mentioned. Daryl has also mentioned some other things to me
as well, once again, greek but I am sure they will be helpful in completing
the setup.
Wayne
--
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