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Posted to dev@tomcat.apache.org by GOMEZ Henri <hg...@slib.fr> on 2002/01/24 17:04:36 UTC
Major problem with Sun External Jar : RE: [Tomcat 4.0.2-b2] Java binaries uploaded
>> I've got a little problems with all the jars that are
>> mandatory to build TC 4.0, javamail, jta, jdbc-ext, jmxri.
>>
>> tyrex is allready packaged and JSSE is only optional.
>>
>> Could someone, may be from Sun staff, could release all of
>> them in a single tarball and put it on the download area ?
>>
>
>This isn't allowed under the license through which these JARs are
>downloaded. You can package them with your own distribution
>(as we do in
>the .tar.gz and .exe distros of Tomcat 4), but not separately.
I'd like to clarify. I could have activation, javamail, jdbc-ext,
jndi, jta, which are Sun products, included in a Tomcat tarball
but couldn't have them included in a separate tarball ?
Thanks to explain us why ?
I allready removed the problematic stuff from jpackage project
but I'd like to have a simple explanation of what to do with
Sun jars.
The question is, should Apache host projects which depend
on non OSS APIs which are entirely under Sun control (Jon/Pier ?)
We should feel much more confortable with projects like
puretls/cryptix and openjmx. Hope to see an OSS alternative
to javamail and jta....
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Re: Major problem with Sun External Jar : RE: [Tomcat 4.0.2-b2] Java binaries uploaded
Posted by Guillaume Rousse <ro...@ccr.jussieu.fr>.
Ainsi parlait Craig R. McClanahan :
> On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, GOMEZ Henri wrote:
> > Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:04:36 +0100
> > From: GOMEZ Henri <hg...@slib.fr>
> > Reply-To: Tomcat Developers List <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > To: Tomcat Developers List <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > Subject: Major problem with Sun External Jar : RE: [Tomcat 4.0.2-b2] Java
> > binaries uploaded
> >
> > >> I've got a little problems with all the jars that are
> > >> mandatory to build TC 4.0, javamail, jta, jdbc-ext, jmxri.
> > >>
> > >> tyrex is allready packaged and JSSE is only optional.
> > >>
> > >> Could someone, may be from Sun staff, could release all of
> > >> them in a single tarball and put it on the download area ?
> > >
> > >This isn't allowed under the license through which these JARs are
> > >downloaded. You can package them with your own distribution
> > >(as we do in
> > >the .tar.gz and .exe distros of Tomcat 4), but not separately.
> >
> > I'd like to clarify. I could have activation, javamail, jdbc-ext,
> > jndi, jta, which are Sun products, included in a Tomcat tarball
> > but couldn't have them included in a separate tarball ?
>
> Yes.
NetBeans distributes separatly its own source code from other binaries,
including javahelp, and they argue they do it this way precisely because of
legal consideration. So they are clearly stating the opposite of your
statement here. And NetBeans comes also from Sun...
--
Guillaume Rousse <ro...@ccr.jussieu.fr>
GPG key http://lis.snv.jussieu.fr/~rousse/gpgkey.html
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Re: Major problem with Sun External Jar : RE: [Tomcat 4.0.2-b2] Java binaries uploaded
Posted by Guillaume Rousse <ro...@ccr.jussieu.fr>.
Ainsi parlait Craig R. McClanahan :
> > I'd like to clarify. I could have activation, javamail, jdbc-ext,
> > jndi, jta, which are Sun products, included in a Tomcat tarball
> > but couldn't have them included in a separate tarball ?
>
> Yes.
>
> > Thanks to explain us why ?
>
> Because that's what the "Redistribution" paragraph of the license that you
> had to click through says you can do and not do. (See why it's a good
> idea to actually *read* these things? :-)
Craig, you've still not answered precisely to my question. Please explain us
if what we are doing violates BLC because:
1) we just allow separate download of BLC-licenced code, even if others
projects do it also.
2) we allow separate download of BLC-licenced code without having to
explicitely click on a "i agree" button, even if BLC text is included in the
release.
The first point would prevent us from any packaging of those libraries, but
the second could be solved quite easily with http download. It would prevents
us anyway of using ftp repository or automated upgrade facilities as urpmi or
apt-get, tough.
--
Guillaume Rousse <ro...@ccr.jussieu.fr>
GPG key http://lis.snv.jussieu.fr/~rousse/gpgkey.html
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Re: Major problem with Sun External Jar : RE: [Tomcat 4.0.2-b2] Java binaries uploaded
Posted by Guillaume Rousse <ro...@ccr.jussieu.fr>.
Ainsi parlait Craig R. McClanahan :
[..]
> > Thanks to explain us why ?
>
> Because that's what the "Redistribution" paragraph of the license that you
> had to click through says you can do and not do. (See why it's a good
> idea to actually *read* these things? :-)
AFAK, the part of the Sun Binary License relevant to distribution is (and
more precisely starts from (b)):
1. License to Distribute. Sun grants you a non-exclusive,
non-transferable, royalty-free, limited license to (a) use
the binary form of the Software for the sole purpose of
designing, developing and testing your JavaTM applets and
applications intended to run on a compatible Java
environment (the "Programs"), provided that the Programs
add significant and primary functionality to the Software,
and (b) reproduce and distribute the binary form of the
Software through multiple tiers of distribution provided
that you: (i) distribute the Software complete and
unmodified; (ii) do not distribute additional software
intended to supersede any component(s) of the Software;
(iii) do not remove or alter any proprietary
legends or notices contained in or on the Software; and
(iv) only distribute the Software pursuant to a license
agreement that protects Sun's interests consistent with the
terms contained in this Agreement, and provides that Sun is
a third party beneficiary to such license agreement. If you
distribute the Software pursuant to this paragraph, you
must include the following statement as part of product
documentation (whether hard copy or electronic), as a
part of a copyright page or proprietary rights notice
page, in an "About" box or in any other form reasonably
designed to make the statement visible to users of the
Software: "This product includes code licensed from
RSA Data Security".
I don't see anything concerning separate distribution here.
There are some minor points where we could be considered violating this
license:
- we don't ship redudant jars (i)
- we don't ship basic launch scripts (i)
- we replace them by complete ones (ii)
And the non-distributable section only contains package specification, not
actual code, so i guess it is not concerned here.
--
Guillaume Rousse <ro...@ccr.jussieu.fr>
GPG key http://lis.snv.jussieu.fr/~rousse/gpgkey.html
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Re: Major problem with Sun External Jar : RE: [Tomcat 4.0.2-b2] Java
binaries uploaded
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, GOMEZ Henri wrote:
> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:04:36 +0100
> From: GOMEZ Henri <hg...@slib.fr>
> Reply-To: Tomcat Developers List <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
> To: Tomcat Developers List <to...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Subject: Major problem with Sun External Jar : RE: [Tomcat 4.0.2-b2] Java
> binaries uploaded
>
> >> I've got a little problems with all the jars that are
> >> mandatory to build TC 4.0, javamail, jta, jdbc-ext, jmxri.
> >>
> >> tyrex is allready packaged and JSSE is only optional.
> >>
> >> Could someone, may be from Sun staff, could release all of
> >> them in a single tarball and put it on the download area ?
> >>
> >
> >This isn't allowed under the license through which these JARs are
> >downloaded. You can package them with your own distribution
> >(as we do in
> >the .tar.gz and .exe distros of Tomcat 4), but not separately.
>
> I'd like to clarify. I could have activation, javamail, jdbc-ext,
> jndi, jta, which are Sun products, included in a Tomcat tarball
> but couldn't have them included in a separate tarball ?
>
Yes.
> Thanks to explain us why ?
>
Because that's what the "Redistribution" paragraph of the license that you
had to click through says you can do and not do. (See why it's a good
idea to actually *read* these things? :-)
> I allready removed the problematic stuff from jpackage project
> but I'd like to have a simple explanation of what to do with
> Sun jars.
>
> The question is, should Apache host projects which depend
> on non OSS APIs which are entirely under Sun control (Jon/Pier ?)
>
> We should feel much more confortable with projects like
> puretls/cryptix and openjmx. Hope to see an OSS alternative
> to javamail and jta....
>
I'm sure Tomcat would be happy to ship with such alternatives (as we
already do for openjmx on the HEAD branch).
Craig
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