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Posted to modperl@perl.apache.org by Joe Schaefer <jo...@sunstarsys.com> on 2001/10/17 19:24:31 UTC
IBM patents Template Systems?
Has anyone else noticed this?
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=10&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ft00&s1=HTML&OS=HTML&RS=HTML
A causal reading seems to suggest that most mod_perl-based
templating systems do exactly what this patent will cover:
i.e. set up a non-HTML based website where templates
dynamically convert non-HTML files into HTML.
The patent was filed June 19, 1998: surely there must be
prior art out there?
--
Joe Schaefer
Re: IBM patents Template Systems?
Posted by Joshua Chamas <jo...@chamas.com>.
Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
> Has anyone else noticed this?
>
> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=10&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ft00&s1=HTML&OS=HTML&RS=HTML
>
> A causal reading seems to suggest that most mod_perl-based
> templating systems do exactly what this patent will cover:
> i.e. set up a non-HTML based website where templates
> dynamically convert non-HTML files into HTML.
>
> The patent was filed June 19, 1998: surely there must be
> prior art out there?
>
As Nathan suggested, this might be more relevant to a web editor
like homestead.com (online or not) than to a templating system.
If it does apply to a templating system, then certainly Embperl
has prior art, whereas Apache::ASP v.01 was released a week after
the filing of this patent, so I am not sure how prior art would
apply in the latter case.
I remember at the time of writing Apache::ASP, NetObjects Fusion
was out for quite a while, and definitely had templates to
choose from for site building, so that might establish prior
art there.
--Josh
_________________________________________________________________
Joshua Chamas Chamas Enterprises Inc.
NodeWorks Founder Huntington Beach, CA USA
http://www.nodeworks.com 1-714-625-4051
Re: IBM patents Template Systems?
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@sunstarsys.com>.
Ged Haywood <ge...@www2.jubileegroup.co.uk> writes:
> On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Nathan Torkington wrote:
>
> > Joe Schaefer writes:
> > > A causal reading seems to suggest that most mod_perl-based
> > > templating systems do exactly what this patent will cover:
> >
> > "the tool generates the customized Web site without the web site
> > creator writing any HTML or other programming code."
>
> An only slightly less casual reading indicates that anyone who writes
>
> use strict;
>
> or
>
> <html>
>
> isn't at risk of violating this patent.
s/write/must write/ and I'd agree with you. However, like the
one-click patent, it appears to stake a dubious claim that makes
me worry about content management systems that are too "user
friendly", or perhaps just not HTML-centric. From
DESCRIPTION OF THE PREFERRED EMBODIMENTS
..."The tool facilitates the creation of a customized Web site
without requiring a Web site creator to write or edit HTML code."...
IANAL, and I'm not trying to be overly alarmist, but the
listed embodiments in that section are to me quite sweeping
(apparently covering dynamic, offline, and mixed content
generation tools). The functionality described there seemingly
existed in commercial products like MS Frontpage 97, and still
the patent was granted.
I also don't know how XML fits into all this ( is it legally
considered HTML, a programming language, or a data format ?),
so I'll shut up now. I just thought people here should be
aware of the issue so perhaps the right people can do something
about it (if need be).
--
Joe Schaefer
Re: IBM patents Template Systems?
Posted by "Brett W. McCoy" <bm...@chapelperilous.net>.
On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Ged Haywood wrote:
> An only slightly less casual reading indicates that anyone who writes
>
> use strict;
>
> or
>
> <html>
>
> isn't at risk of violating this patent.
It looks to me that products like Zope or Midgard are more going to be in
violation, but since they are Python and PHP based, it is of no concern.
:-)
-- Brett
http://www.chapelperilous.net/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know you've landed gear-up when it takes full power to taxi.
Re: IBM patents Template Systems?
Posted by Ged Haywood <ge...@www2.jubileegroup.co.uk>.
Hi all,
On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Nathan Torkington wrote:
> Joe Schaefer writes:
> > A causal reading seems to suggest that most mod_perl-based
> > templating systems do exactly what this patent will cover:
>
> "the tool generates the customized Web site without the web site
> creator writing any HTML or other programming code."
An only slightly less casual reading indicates that anyone who writes
use strict;
or
<html>
isn't at risk of violating this patent.
73,
Ged.
Re: IBM patents Template Systems?
Posted by John Armstrong <si...@siberian.org>.
Is this applying to an application based tool only or does it also apply
to web based tools? We have a product that we have licensed out for 4
years or so that does exactly this via the web( approx 5000 sites are
using it now ). I am sure others do as well.
Just not sure what the scope of this lame patent is.
John-
On Wednesday, October 17, 2001, at 11:12 AM, Nathan Torkington wrote:
> Joe Schaefer writes:
>> A causal reading seems to suggest that most mod_perl-based
>> templating systems do exactly what this patent will cover:
>> i.e. set up a non-HTML based website where templates
>> dynamically convert non-HTML files into HTML.
>
> IANAL (and IVAGINAL too, but that's for a different time :-) but as
> far as I can see, the patent applies to applications that interact
> with the user to build the website. In other words, mod_perl's
> character-based DIY stuff wouldn't count.
>
> <http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-
> Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-
> bool.html&r=10&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ft00&s1=HTML&OS=HTML&RS=HTML>
>
> Abstract----------------------------
> A software tool is provided for use with a computer system for
> simplifying
> the creation of Web sites. The tool comprises a plurality of pre-stored
> templates, comprising HTML formatting code, text, fields and formulas.
> The
> templates preferably correspond to different types of Web pages and
> other
> features commonly found on or available to Web sites. Each feature may
> have
> various options. To create a web site, a Web site creator (the person
> using
> the tool to create a web site) is prompted by the tool through a series
> of
> views stored in the tool to select the features and options desired for
> the
> Web site. Based on these selections, the tool prompts the web site
> creator
> to supply data to populate fields of the templates determined by the
> tool
> to correspond to the selected features and options. Based on the
> identified
> templates and supplied data, the tool generates the customized Web site
> without the web site creator writing any HTML or other programming code.
> Based on roles-based, multi-level security, certain users of the web
> site
> may have access to certain information and others may not.
>
> Nat
>
Re: IBM patents Template Systems?
Posted by Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com>.
Joe Schaefer writes:
> A causal reading seems to suggest that most mod_perl-based
> templating systems do exactly what this patent will cover:
> i.e. set up a non-HTML based website where templates
> dynamically convert non-HTML files into HTML.
IANAL (and IVAGINAL too, but that's for a different time :-) but as
far as I can see, the patent applies to applications that interact
with the user to build the website. In other words, mod_perl's
character-based DIY stuff wouldn't count.
<http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=10&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ft00&s1=HTML&OS=HTML&RS=HTML>
Abstract----------------------------
A software tool is provided for use with a computer system for simplifying
the creation of Web sites. The tool comprises a plurality of pre-stored
templates, comprising HTML formatting code, text, fields and formulas. The
templates preferably correspond to different types of Web pages and other
features commonly found on or available to Web sites. Each feature may have
various options. To create a web site, a Web site creator (the person using
the tool to create a web site) is prompted by the tool through a series of
views stored in the tool to select the features and options desired for the
Web site. Based on these selections, the tool prompts the web site creator
to supply data to populate fields of the templates determined by the tool
to correspond to the selected features and options. Based on the identified
templates and supplied data, the tool generates the customized Web site
without the web site creator writing any HTML or other programming code.
Based on roles-based, multi-level security, certain users of the web site
may have access to certain information and others may not.
Nat