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Posted to users@tapestry.apache.org by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> on 2010/11/19 22:15:27 UTC
Tapestry Web Site Updated
We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on revising
the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web Site:
http://tapestry.apache.org/
Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with [SITE]
in the subject.
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator of Apache Tapestry
The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to learn
how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
(971) 678-5210
http://howardlewisship.com
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Andreas Andreou <an...@di.uoa.gr>.
you're right - it probably only works in chrome! Anyway, will
need to dig into confluence to see if there's a fix for this cause
i think those inner links are auto-generated there...
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 12:40, Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au> wrote:
> Firefox 3.6..
>
> the sections ie "General Questions" works fine, but the subsections ie "How
> do I get started with Tapestry?" do not.
>
> p.
>
> On 23/11/2010 8:43 PM, Andreas Andreou wrote:
>>
>> That works fine here - what browser you used?
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 11:09, Paul Stanton<pa...@mapshed.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>> The 'jump to section' links in the FAQ don't work
>>>
>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/frequently-asked-questions.html
>>>
>>> eg
>>>
>>> <A href="#FrequentlyAskedQuestions-HowdoIgetstartedwithTapestry%253F">How
>>> do
>>> I get started with Tapestry?</A>
>>> <A name="FrequentlyAskedQuestions-HowdoIgetstartedwithTapestry%3F"></A>
>>>
>>> I'm guessing it's because %253F != %3F.
>>>
>>> p.
>>>
>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>>> revising
>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
>>>> Site:
>>>>
>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>
>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>> [SITE]
>>>> in the subject.
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Andreas Andreou - andyhot@apache.org - http://blog.andyhot.gr
Tapestry PMC / Tacos developer
Open Source / JEE Consulting
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>.
Firefox 3.6..
the sections ie "General Questions" works fine, but the subsections ie
"How do I get started with Tapestry?" do not.
p.
On 23/11/2010 8:43 PM, Andreas Andreou wrote:
> That works fine here - what browser you used?
>
> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 11:09, Paul Stanton<pa...@mapshed.com.au> wrote:
>> The 'jump to section' links in the FAQ don't work
>>
>> http://tapestry.apache.org/frequently-asked-questions.html
>>
>> eg
>>
>> <A href="#FrequentlyAskedQuestions-HowdoIgetstartedwithTapestry%253F">How do
>> I get started with Tapestry?</A>
>> <A name="FrequentlyAskedQuestions-HowdoIgetstartedwithTapestry%3F"></A>
>>
>> I'm guessing it's because %253F != %3F.
>>
>> p.
>>
>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>> revising
>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
>>> Site:
>>>
>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>
>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with [SITE]
>>> in the subject.
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Andreas Andreou <an...@di.uoa.gr>.
That works fine here - what browser you used?
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 11:09, Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au> wrote:
> The 'jump to section' links in the FAQ don't work
>
> http://tapestry.apache.org/frequently-asked-questions.html
>
> eg
>
> <A href="#FrequentlyAskedQuestions-HowdoIgetstartedwithTapestry%253F">How do
> I get started with Tapestry?</A>
> <A name="FrequentlyAskedQuestions-HowdoIgetstartedwithTapestry%3F"></A>
>
> I'm guessing it's because %253F != %3F.
>
> p.
>
> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>
>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>> revising
>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
>> Site:
>>
>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>
>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with [SITE]
>> in the subject.
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Andreas Andreou - andyhot@apache.org - http://blog.andyhot.gr
Tapestry PMC / Tacos developer
Open Source / JEE Consulting
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>.
The 'jump to section' links in the FAQ don't work
http://tapestry.apache.org/frequently-asked-questions.html
eg
<A
href="#FrequentlyAskedQuestions-HowdoIgetstartedwithTapestry%253F">How
do I get started with Tapestry?</A>
<A name="FrequentlyAskedQuestions-HowdoIgetstartedwithTapestry%3F"></A>
I'm guessing it's because %253F != %3F.
p.
On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on revising
> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web Site:
>
> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>
> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with [SITE]
> in the subject.
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Ivano Luberti <lu...@archicoop.it>.
Il 23/11/2010 11.53, Blower, Andy ha scritto:
> 3) For long time developers it's useful to still have the older docs available because we know those like the back of our hands and have a lot of work to get done. Please don't make those disappear for a while.
>
+1
--
==================================================
dott. Ivano Mario Luberti
Archimede Informatica societa' cooperativa a r. l.
Sede Operativa
Via Gereschi 36 - 56126- Pisa
tel.: +39-050- 580959
tel/fax: +39-050-9711344
web: www.archicoop.it
==================================================
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RE: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by "Blower, Andy" <An...@proquest.co.uk>.
Nice to see new and improved documentation. A couple of comments:
1) I find the green to initially be nice, but overused. When I am reading a documentation page the green titles and links don't contrast enough with the white page and it's *really* hard on the eyes.
2) No navigation, just a breadcrumb trail. I quite liked the persistent nav on the left of the page.
3) For long time developers it's useful to still have the older docs available because we know those like the back of our hands and have a lot of work to get done. Please don't make those disappear for a while.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Howard Lewis Ship [mailto:hlship@gmail.com]
> Sent: 19 November 2010 21:15
> To: Tapestry users
> Subject: Tapestry Web Site Updated
>
> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
> revising
> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
> Site:
>
> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>
> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
> [SITE]
> in the subject.
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn
> how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Christophe Cordenier <ch...@gmail.com>.
Important, note that everyone can signup on confluence and post comments
directly on pages.
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/signup.action
2010/11/21 Christophe Cordenier <ch...@gmail.com>
> Right, I'll make it point to Getting started that should take less than 20
> minutes.
>
> 2010/11/21 Ivano Luberti <lu...@archicoop.it>
>
> First observation: the tutorial would take anyone much more than 20
>> minutes.
>> I think that giving a wrong introductory information to people that meet
>> Tapestry for the first time it is not a good thing
>>
>> Il 19/11/2010 22.15, Howard Lewis Ship ha scritto:
>> > We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>> revising
>> > the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
>> Site:
>> >
>> > http://tapestry.apache.org/
>> >
>> > Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>> [SITE]
>> > in the subject.
>> >
>>
>> --
>> ==================================================
>> dott. Ivano Mario Luberti
>> Archimede Informatica societa' cooperativa a r. l.
>> Sede Operativa
>> Via Gereschi 36 - 56126- Pisa
>> tel.: +39-050- 580959
>> tel/fax: +39-050-9711344
>> web: www.archicoop.it
>> ==================================================
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Christophe Cordenier.
>
> Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
> Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
>
--
Regards,
Christophe Cordenier.
Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Christophe Cordenier <ch...@gmail.com>.
Right, I'll make it point to Getting started that should take less than 20
minutes.
2010/11/21 Ivano Luberti <lu...@archicoop.it>
> First observation: the tutorial would take anyone much more than 20
> minutes.
> I think that giving a wrong introductory information to people that meet
> Tapestry for the first time it is not a good thing
>
> Il 19/11/2010 22.15, Howard Lewis Ship ha scritto:
> > We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
> revising
> > the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
> Site:
> >
> > http://tapestry.apache.org/
> >
> > Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
> [SITE]
> > in the subject.
> >
>
> --
> ==================================================
> dott. Ivano Mario Luberti
> Archimede Informatica societa' cooperativa a r. l.
> Sede Operativa
> Via Gereschi 36 - 56126- Pisa
> tel.: +39-050- 580959
> tel/fax: +39-050-9711344
> web: www.archicoop.it
> ==================================================
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Regards,
Christophe Cordenier.
Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Ivano Luberti <lu...@archicoop.it>.
First observation: the tutorial would take anyone much more than 20 minutes.
I think that giving a wrong introductory information to people that meet
Tapestry for the first time it is not a good thing
Il 19/11/2010 22.15, Howard Lewis Ship ha scritto:
> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on revising
> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web Site:
>
> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>
> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with [SITE]
> in the subject.
>
--
==================================================
dott. Ivano Mario Luberti
Archimede Informatica societa' cooperativa a r. l.
Sede Operativa
Via Gereschi 36 - 56126- Pisa
tel.: +39-050- 580959
tel/fax: +39-050-9711344
web: www.archicoop.it
==================================================
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
RE: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by "Newham, Cameron" <ca...@bl.uk>.
I think the new site is an excellent start. I agree with Javier's comments and would like to add that the red stop signs in the tutorial are a worry. For instance, the first one:
"This chapter may look long, but almost all of it is one-time setup for Maven and Eclipse. The actual Tapestry part is really small and simple. Enjoy!"
It looks like there is a problem with the page, along the lines of Wikipedia's article warnings made by those editing the text, and with a cursory glance looks more like: "This article is too long and needs cleaning up". i.e.: an instruction aimed at the authors rather than the reader. It's also rather disconcerting, in this example, that the word "enjoy" appears in a big scary warning!
There is also a problem with verbosity. I think it's great to have lengthy discussions, but possibly place some of the non-directly-related material and asides in separate boxes titled something like "Additional Information".
c.
-----Original Message-----
From: Javier Molina [mailto:javier@comunicamultimedia.com]
Sent: 22 November 2010 09:37
To: users@tapestry.apache.org
Subject: Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some comments:
- in general, the new site looks prettier
- it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled" post on
the front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to know that
it's just a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there's now a post
above that saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about the concept
of "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such visibility. Do
we want things like that to see what potential new users get on their
first visit?
- news feed titles have too large a font
- there's too much text in the left column. I know there are a lot of
benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating.
- in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don't make the
user choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the instructions
for the latest stable version. It's better to have that be out of date
when a new version comes out (because it still will work) than have the
user decide at this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId, version and
package. It's a test project the user is creating, those values are not
going to matter. Give the defaults so people can copy and paste the
command and have the project created, built and run.
- the big red scary warning about the project layout changing across
different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user has this
problem he will know how to solve it.
- after the test project has been created, give the user some pointers
on where to find things (pages go in src/main/java/com/example/pages,
page templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the tutorial but
if this first experience is too frustrating, people might not even
bother to go there.
- add something to the archetype with commented out code that the user
can uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a few lines
only, to be easily understandable, and clearly link components in the
template with their methods in the page class.
- the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about topics not
really related to me getting code running and out the door. Strip it to
the essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servlet API
compared to the tapestry way, mention them in a separate chapter so they
are easy to find / skip as needed.
- there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no indication of
how long it takes to complete.
- there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in the tutorial.
It is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to follow. It's
impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've got ahead of you.
Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the barrier to
entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry does for you
and how great a framework it is will not matter if people don't get past
the initial experience.
El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on revising
> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web Site:
>
> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>
> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with [SITE]
> in the subject.
>
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Christophe Cordenier <ch...@gmail.com>.
Good points !
2010/11/22 Javier Molina <ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>
> I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some comments:
>
> - in general, the new site looks prettier
>
> - it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled" post on the
> front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to know that it's just
> a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there's now a post above that
> saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about the concept of
> "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such visibility. Do we want
> things like that to see what potential new users get on their first visit?
>
> - news feed titles have too large a font
>
> - there's too much text in the left column. I know there are a lot of
> benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating.
>
> - in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don't make the user
> choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the instructions for the
> latest stable version. It's better to have that be out of date when a new
> version comes out (because it still will work) than have the user decide at
> this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId, version and package. It's a
> test project the user is creating, those values are not going to matter.
> Give the defaults so people can copy and paste the command and have the
> project created, built and run.
>
> - the big red scary warning about the project layout changing across
> different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user has this
> problem he will know how to solve it.
>
> - after the test project has been created, give the user some pointers on
> where to find things (pages go in src/main/java/com/example/pages, page
> templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the tutorial but if this
> first experience is too frustrating, people might not even bother to go
> there.
>
> - add something to the archetype with commented out code that the user can
> uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a few lines only, to
> be easily understandable, and clearly link components in the template with
> their methods in the page class.
>
> - the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about topics not
> really related to me getting code running and out the door. Strip it to the
> essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servlet API compared to
> the tapestry way, mention them in a separate chapter so they are easy to
> find / skip as needed.
>
> - there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no indication of how
> long it takes to complete.
>
> - there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in the tutorial. It
> is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to follow. It's
> impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've got ahead of you.
>
> Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the barrier to
> entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry does for you and
> how great a framework it is will not matter if people don't get past the
> initial experience.
>
> El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
>
> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>> revising
>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
>> Site:
>>
>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>
>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>> [SITE]
>> in the subject.
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Regards,
Christophe Cordenier.
Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com>.
Maybe it' d be best if there were no live links to Confluence, but just the
URL written as plain text? That would also help to keep spider traffic down.
On Nov 27, 2010 12:03 PM, "Christophe Cordenier" <
christophe.cordenier@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> It seems that the 'documentation' page has links on confluence
> cwiki.apache.org. And when confluence is down (at the time I write this
> mail) firefox fails to load the page fully and quickly, this is a bit
> annoying...
>
> I will look into this, but you have some hints
>
> Christophe.
>
> 2010/11/27 Juan E. Maya <ma...@gmail.com>
>
>> Katia, 'm a native spanish speaker and very interested in your idea. I
>> would really like to give back something to the Tapestry Community.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 12:54 AM, Katia Aresti <ka...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > 2010/11/26 françois facon <fr...@gmail.com>
>> >
>> >> Hi Katia,
>> >>
>> >> I would like to speak Spanish or English as well as you speak french.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Thank you François, but the french I write that you might read is
>> corrected
>> > - a lot - for several people who review my articles (technically and in
>> > order to correct my french) before publishing. I write for French
public,
>> > and I need to improve my french, so that's why I write in french.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Perhaps you will get more technical feedback, if you write your
>> >> documentation in English.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Yes, probably. You might also be aware about the fact that in France
>> books
>> > like "Spring par la pratique" are even more successful than "Spring in
>> > Action". Why ? Because people like to read in their own language. You
>> might
>> > agree or not, personally I don't care about reading english french or
>> > spanish, but that's not the way how most people work. And the best
>> > documentation will be always written in our mother tong language.
>> >
>> > Have you asked yourself why is Tapestry very successful in Germany or
>> > Austria ? Is it perhaps for the very successful German book written by
>> Igor
>> > ? Why does Thiago write a documentation in Portuguese ? Maybe Brazilian
>> and
>> > Portuguese people, for example, might appreciate this documentation ...
>> Who
>> > could be better than him writing a Portuguese Tapestry 5 book ?
>> > I'm not pretending to do something like Igor or Thiago, I'm just
thinking
>> > about a beginner tutorial.
>> > Why would be better a beginner tutorial in english ? Is it because this
>> > tutorial doesn't exist ? Are you kidding ?
>> >
>> > @All
>> > Anyway, If somebody here is Spanish or writes Spanish and is interested
>> on
>> > this project, just let me now.
>> >
>> > Katia
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2010/11/26 Katia Aresti <ka...@gmail.com>
>> >>
>> >> > Agreed, but there are quit a lot of things already published in
>> english
>> >> for
>> >> > tapestry beginners (existing tutorial, articles and so ).
>> >> > Personally I don't fell self confident enough to write a quality
>> tutorial
>> >> > in
>> >> > english, and then translate it to spanish. I mean, sometimes is not
a
>> >> > matter
>> >> > of the content iself, but just using crappy english. I write a lot
in
>> >> > french
>> >> > and the 95% corrections and feedback I get is concerning my french,
>> not
>> >> my
>> >> > technical content.
>> >> >
>> >> > If you change your mind. I know Spanish content is veeeeery (very
very
>> >> very
>> >> > ... ) appreciated and Spanish community is large enough to deserve
>> >> spanish
>> >> > content.
>> >> >
>> >> > Katia
>> >> >
>> >> > 2010/11/26 Javier Molina <ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>
>> >> >
>> >> > > IMHO, a better approach would be to write and publish everything
in
>> >> > English
>> >> > > first, then translate to Spanish if there is enough interest. That
>> way,
>> >> > > whatever material is created can reach a larger audience, and in
the
>> >> end,
>> >> > > will be of greater quality, as the translation can be done when
the
>> >> > content
>> >> > > has had some time to mature and be reviewed by the community.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > El 26/11/10 17:41, Katia Aresti escribió:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Javahispano and/or wherever it fits properly
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> 2010/11/26 Katia Aresti<ka...@gmail.com>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> @Javier,
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> Would you be interested on writing an article / tutorial /
>> something
>> >> in
>> >> > >>> binome with me and to publish it on JavaHispano ?
>> >> > >>> In Spanish :)
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> Katia
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> 2010/11/26 Javier Molina<ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> I just sent the ICLA by e-mail a few minutes ago
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> El 22/11/10 12:22, Ulrich Stärk escribió:
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> Javier,
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> you are cordially invited to help out by contributing your
>> proposed
>> >> > >>>>> changes: Please file an ICLA [1] with secretary@apache.org and
>> >> I'll
>> >> > >>>>> grant you write access to the wiki.
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> The same holds for everyone. Once your ICLA is on file you may
>> >> start
>> >> > >>>>> contributing to the documentation.
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> Uli
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> [1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> Am 22.11.2010 10:37, schrieb Javier Molina:
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some
>> >> comments:
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - in general, the new site looks prettier
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled"
>> post
>> >> > on
>> >> > >>>>>> the front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to
>> know
>> >> > that
>> >> > >>>>>> it's just a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there's
>> now
>> >> a
>> >> > >>>>>> post
>> >> > >>>>>> above that saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about
the
>> >> > concept
>> >> > >>>>>> of "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such
>> >> visibility.
>> >> > >>>>>> Do
>> >> > >>>>>> we want things like that to see what potential new users get
on
>> >> > their
>> >> > >>>>>> first visit?
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - news feed titles have too large a font
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - there's too much text in the left column. I know there are
a
>> lot
>> >> > of
>> >> > >>>>>> benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don't
>> make
>> >> > the
>> >> > >>>>>> user choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the
>> >> > instructions
>> >> > >>>>>> for the latest stable version. It's better to have that be
out
>> of
>> >> > date
>> >> > >>>>>> when a new version comes out (because it still will work)
than
>> >> have
>> >> > >>>>>> the
>> >> > >>>>>> user decide at this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId,
>> >> version
>> >> > >>>>>> and
>> >> > >>>>>> package. It's a test project the user is creating, those
values
>> >> are
>> >> > >>>>>> not
>> >> > >>>>>> going to matter. Give the defaults so people can copy and
paste
>> >> the
>> >> > >>>>>> command and have the project created, built and run.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - the big red scary warning about the project layout changing
>> >> across
>> >> > >>>>>> different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user
>> has
>> >> > this
>> >> > >>>>>> problem he will know how to solve it.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - after the test project has been created, give the user some
>> >> > pointers
>> >> > >>>>>> on where to find things (pages go in
>> >> > src/main/java/com/example/pages,
>> >> > >>>>>> page templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the
>> >> tutorial
>> >> > >>>>>> but
>> >> > >>>>>> if this first experience is too frustrating, people might not
>> even
>> >> > >>>>>> bother to go there.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - add something to the archetype with commented out code that
>> the
>> >> > user
>> >> > >>>>>> can uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a
few
>> >> > lines
>> >> > >>>>>> only, to be easily understandable, and clearly link
components
>> in
>> >> > the
>> >> > >>>>>> template with their methods in the page class.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about
>> topics
>> >> > not
>> >> > >>>>>> really related to me getting code running and out the door.
>> Strip
>> >> it
>> >> > >>>>>> to
>> >> > >>>>>> the essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servlet
>> API
>> >> > >>>>>> compared to the tapestry way, mention them in a separate
>> chapter
>> >> so
>> >> > >>>>>> they
>> >> > >>>>>> are easy to find / skip as needed.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no
>> indication
>> >> > of
>> >> > >>>>>> how long it takes to complete.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in
the
>> >> > >>>>>> tutorial.
>> >> > >>>>>> It is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to
>> follow.
>> >> > It's
>> >> > >>>>>> impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've
got
>> >> ahead
>> >> > >>>>>> of
>> >> > >>>>>> you.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the
>> >> barrier
>> >> > >>>>>> to
>> >> > >>>>>> entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry
>> does
>> >> for
>> >> > >>>>>> you
>> >> > >>>>>> and how great a framework it is will not matter if people
don't
>> >> get
>> >> > >>>>>> past
>> >> > >>>>>> the initial experience.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working
>> hard
>> >> on
>> >> > >>>>>>> revising
>> >> > >>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new
>> >> Tapestry
>> >> > >>>>>>> Web
>> >> > >>>>>>> Site:
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to
>> >> users@tapestry.apache.orgwith
>> >> > >>>>>>> [SITE]
>> >> > >>>>>>> in the subject.
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Christophe Cordenier.
>
> Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
> Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Christophe Cordenier <ch...@gmail.com>.
Hi all
It seems that the 'documentation' page has links on confluence
cwiki.apache.org. And when confluence is down (at the time I write this
mail) firefox fails to load the page fully and quickly, this is a bit
annoying...
I will look into this, but you have some hints
Christophe.
2010/11/27 Juan E. Maya <ma...@gmail.com>
> Katia, 'm a native spanish speaker and very interested in your idea. I
> would really like to give back something to the Tapestry Community.
>
> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 12:54 AM, Katia Aresti <ka...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > 2010/11/26 françois facon <fr...@gmail.com>
> >
> >> Hi Katia,
> >>
> >> I would like to speak Spanish or English as well as you speak french.
> >>
> >
> > Thank you François, but the french I write that you might read is
> corrected
> > - a lot - for several people who review my articles (technically and in
> > order to correct my french) before publishing. I write for French public,
> > and I need to improve my french, so that's why I write in french.
> >
> >
> >> Perhaps you will get more technical feedback, if you write your
> >> documentation in English.
> >>
> >
> > Yes, probably. You might also be aware about the fact that in France
> books
> > like "Spring par la pratique" are even more successful than "Spring in
> > Action". Why ? Because people like to read in their own language. You
> might
> > agree or not, personally I don't care about reading english french or
> > spanish, but that's not the way how most people work. And the best
> > documentation will be always written in our mother tong language.
> >
> > Have you asked yourself why is Tapestry very successful in Germany or
> > Austria ? Is it perhaps for the very successful German book written by
> Igor
> > ? Why does Thiago write a documentation in Portuguese ? Maybe Brazilian
> and
> > Portuguese people, for example, might appreciate this documentation ...
> Who
> > could be better than him writing a Portuguese Tapestry 5 book ?
> > I'm not pretending to do something like Igor or Thiago, I'm just thinking
> > about a beginner tutorial.
> > Why would be better a beginner tutorial in english ? Is it because this
> > tutorial doesn't exist ? Are you kidding ?
> >
> > @All
> > Anyway, If somebody here is Spanish or writes Spanish and is interested
> on
> > this project, just let me now.
> >
> > Katia
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2010/11/26 Katia Aresti <ka...@gmail.com>
> >>
> >> > Agreed, but there are quit a lot of things already published in
> english
> >> for
> >> > tapestry beginners (existing tutorial, articles and so ).
> >> > Personally I don't fell self confident enough to write a quality
> tutorial
> >> > in
> >> > english, and then translate it to spanish. I mean, sometimes is not a
> >> > matter
> >> > of the content iself, but just using crappy english. I write a lot in
> >> > french
> >> > and the 95% corrections and feedback I get is concerning my french,
> not
> >> my
> >> > technical content.
> >> >
> >> > If you change your mind. I know Spanish content is veeeeery (very very
> >> very
> >> > ... ) appreciated and Spanish community is large enough to deserve
> >> spanish
> >> > content.
> >> >
> >> > Katia
> >> >
> >> > 2010/11/26 Javier Molina <ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>
> >> >
> >> > > IMHO, a better approach would be to write and publish everything in
> >> > English
> >> > > first, then translate to Spanish if there is enough interest. That
> way,
> >> > > whatever material is created can reach a larger audience, and in the
> >> end,
> >> > > will be of greater quality, as the translation can be done when the
> >> > content
> >> > > has had some time to mature and be reviewed by the community.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > El 26/11/10 17:41, Katia Aresti escribió:
> >> > >
> >> > > Javahispano and/or wherever it fits properly
> >> > >>
> >> > >> 2010/11/26 Katia Aresti<ka...@gmail.com>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> @Javier,
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Would you be interested on writing an article / tutorial /
> something
> >> in
> >> > >>> binome with me and to publish it on JavaHispano ?
> >> > >>> In Spanish :)
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Katia
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> 2010/11/26 Javier Molina<ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> I just sent the ICLA by e-mail a few minutes ago
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> El 22/11/10 12:22, Ulrich Stärk escribió:
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> Javier,
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> you are cordially invited to help out by contributing your
> proposed
> >> > >>>>> changes: Please file an ICLA [1] with secretary@apache.org and
> >> I'll
> >> > >>>>> grant you write access to the wiki.
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> The same holds for everyone. Once your ICLA is on file you may
> >> start
> >> > >>>>> contributing to the documentation.
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> Uli
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> [1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> Am 22.11.2010 10:37, schrieb Javier Molina:
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some
> >> comments:
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> - in general, the new site looks prettier
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> - it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled"
> post
> >> > on
> >> > >>>>>> the front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to
> know
> >> > that
> >> > >>>>>> it's just a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there's
> now
> >> a
> >> > >>>>>> post
> >> > >>>>>> above that saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about the
> >> > concept
> >> > >>>>>> of "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such
> >> visibility.
> >> > >>>>>> Do
> >> > >>>>>> we want things like that to see what potential new users get on
> >> > their
> >> > >>>>>> first visit?
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> - news feed titles have too large a font
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> - there's too much text in the left column. I know there are a
> lot
> >> > of
> >> > >>>>>> benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> - in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don't
> make
> >> > the
> >> > >>>>>> user choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the
> >> > instructions
> >> > >>>>>> for the latest stable version. It's better to have that be out
> of
> >> > date
> >> > >>>>>> when a new version comes out (because it still will work) than
> >> have
> >> > >>>>>> the
> >> > >>>>>> user decide at this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId,
> >> version
> >> > >>>>>> and
> >> > >>>>>> package. It's a test project the user is creating, those values
> >> are
> >> > >>>>>> not
> >> > >>>>>> going to matter. Give the defaults so people can copy and paste
> >> the
> >> > >>>>>> command and have the project created, built and run.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> - the big red scary warning about the project layout changing
> >> across
> >> > >>>>>> different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user
> has
> >> > this
> >> > >>>>>> problem he will know how to solve it.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> - after the test project has been created, give the user some
> >> > pointers
> >> > >>>>>> on where to find things (pages go in
> >> > src/main/java/com/example/pages,
> >> > >>>>>> page templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the
> >> tutorial
> >> > >>>>>> but
> >> > >>>>>> if this first experience is too frustrating, people might not
> even
> >> > >>>>>> bother to go there.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> - add something to the archetype with commented out code that
> the
> >> > user
> >> > >>>>>> can uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a few
> >> > lines
> >> > >>>>>> only, to be easily understandable, and clearly link components
> in
> >> > the
> >> > >>>>>> template with their methods in the page class.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> - the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about
> topics
> >> > not
> >> > >>>>>> really related to me getting code running and out the door.
> Strip
> >> it
> >> > >>>>>> to
> >> > >>>>>> the essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servlet
> API
> >> > >>>>>> compared to the tapestry way, mention them in a separate
> chapter
> >> so
> >> > >>>>>> they
> >> > >>>>>> are easy to find / skip as needed.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> - there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no
> indication
> >> > of
> >> > >>>>>> how long it takes to complete.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> - there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in the
> >> > >>>>>> tutorial.
> >> > >>>>>> It is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to
> follow.
> >> > It's
> >> > >>>>>> impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've got
> >> ahead
> >> > >>>>>> of
> >> > >>>>>> you.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the
> >> barrier
> >> > >>>>>> to
> >> > >>>>>> entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry
> does
> >> for
> >> > >>>>>> you
> >> > >>>>>> and how great a framework it is will not matter if people don't
> >> get
> >> > >>>>>> past
> >> > >>>>>> the initial experience.
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working
> hard
> >> on
> >> > >>>>>>> revising
> >> > >>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new
> >> Tapestry
> >> > >>>>>>> Web
> >> > >>>>>>> Site:
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to
> >> users@tapestry.apache.orgwith
> >> > >>>>>>> [SITE]
> >> > >>>>>>> in the subject.
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Regards,
Christophe Cordenier.
Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by "Juan E. Maya" <ma...@gmail.com>.
Katia, 'm a native spanish speaker and very interested in your idea. I
would really like to give back something to the Tapestry Community.
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 12:54 AM, Katia Aresti <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2010/11/26 françois facon <fr...@gmail.com>
>
>> Hi Katia,
>>
>> I would like to speak Spanish or English as well as you speak french.
>>
>
> Thank you François, but the french I write that you might read is corrected
> - a lot - for several people who review my articles (technically and in
> order to correct my french) before publishing. I write for French public,
> and I need to improve my french, so that's why I write in french.
>
>
>> Perhaps you will get more technical feedback, if you write your
>> documentation in English.
>>
>
> Yes, probably. You might also be aware about the fact that in France books
> like "Spring par la pratique" are even more successful than "Spring in
> Action". Why ? Because people like to read in their own language. You might
> agree or not, personally I don't care about reading english french or
> spanish, but that's not the way how most people work. And the best
> documentation will be always written in our mother tong language.
>
> Have you asked yourself why is Tapestry very successful in Germany or
> Austria ? Is it perhaps for the very successful German book written by Igor
> ? Why does Thiago write a documentation in Portuguese ? Maybe Brazilian and
> Portuguese people, for example, might appreciate this documentation ... Who
> could be better than him writing a Portuguese Tapestry 5 book ?
> I'm not pretending to do something like Igor or Thiago, I'm just thinking
> about a beginner tutorial.
> Why would be better a beginner tutorial in english ? Is it because this
> tutorial doesn't exist ? Are you kidding ?
>
> @All
> Anyway, If somebody here is Spanish or writes Spanish and is interested on
> this project, just let me now.
>
> Katia
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2010/11/26 Katia Aresti <ka...@gmail.com>
>>
>> > Agreed, but there are quit a lot of things already published in english
>> for
>> > tapestry beginners (existing tutorial, articles and so ).
>> > Personally I don't fell self confident enough to write a quality tutorial
>> > in
>> > english, and then translate it to spanish. I mean, sometimes is not a
>> > matter
>> > of the content iself, but just using crappy english. I write a lot in
>> > french
>> > and the 95% corrections and feedback I get is concerning my french, not
>> my
>> > technical content.
>> >
>> > If you change your mind. I know Spanish content is veeeeery (very very
>> very
>> > ... ) appreciated and Spanish community is large enough to deserve
>> spanish
>> > content.
>> >
>> > Katia
>> >
>> > 2010/11/26 Javier Molina <ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>
>> >
>> > > IMHO, a better approach would be to write and publish everything in
>> > English
>> > > first, then translate to Spanish if there is enough interest. That way,
>> > > whatever material is created can reach a larger audience, and in the
>> end,
>> > > will be of greater quality, as the translation can be done when the
>> > content
>> > > has had some time to mature and be reviewed by the community.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > El 26/11/10 17:41, Katia Aresti escribió:
>> > >
>> > > Javahispano and/or wherever it fits properly
>> > >>
>> > >> 2010/11/26 Katia Aresti<ka...@gmail.com>
>> > >>
>> > >> @Javier,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Would you be interested on writing an article / tutorial / something
>> in
>> > >>> binome with me and to publish it on JavaHispano ?
>> > >>> In Spanish :)
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Katia
>> > >>>
>> > >>> 2010/11/26 Javier Molina<ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I just sent the ICLA by e-mail a few minutes ago
>> > >>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> El 22/11/10 12:22, Ulrich Stärk escribió:
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Javier,
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> you are cordially invited to help out by contributing your proposed
>> > >>>>> changes: Please file an ICLA [1] with secretary@apache.org and
>> I'll
>> > >>>>> grant you write access to the wiki.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> The same holds for everyone. Once your ICLA is on file you may
>> start
>> > >>>>> contributing to the documentation.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> Uli
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> [1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> Am 22.11.2010 10:37, schrieb Javier Molina:
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some
>> comments:
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> - in general, the new site looks prettier
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> - it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled" post
>> > on
>> > >>>>>> the front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to know
>> > that
>> > >>>>>> it's just a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there's now
>> a
>> > >>>>>> post
>> > >>>>>> above that saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about the
>> > concept
>> > >>>>>> of "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such
>> visibility.
>> > >>>>>> Do
>> > >>>>>> we want things like that to see what potential new users get on
>> > their
>> > >>>>>> first visit?
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> - news feed titles have too large a font
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> - there's too much text in the left column. I know there are a lot
>> > of
>> > >>>>>> benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating.
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> - in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don't make
>> > the
>> > >>>>>> user choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the
>> > instructions
>> > >>>>>> for the latest stable version. It's better to have that be out of
>> > date
>> > >>>>>> when a new version comes out (because it still will work) than
>> have
>> > >>>>>> the
>> > >>>>>> user decide at this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId,
>> version
>> > >>>>>> and
>> > >>>>>> package. It's a test project the user is creating, those values
>> are
>> > >>>>>> not
>> > >>>>>> going to matter. Give the defaults so people can copy and paste
>> the
>> > >>>>>> command and have the project created, built and run.
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> - the big red scary warning about the project layout changing
>> across
>> > >>>>>> different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user has
>> > this
>> > >>>>>> problem he will know how to solve it.
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> - after the test project has been created, give the user some
>> > pointers
>> > >>>>>> on where to find things (pages go in
>> > src/main/java/com/example/pages,
>> > >>>>>> page templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the
>> tutorial
>> > >>>>>> but
>> > >>>>>> if this first experience is too frustrating, people might not even
>> > >>>>>> bother to go there.
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> - add something to the archetype with commented out code that the
>> > user
>> > >>>>>> can uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a few
>> > lines
>> > >>>>>> only, to be easily understandable, and clearly link components in
>> > the
>> > >>>>>> template with their methods in the page class.
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> - the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about topics
>> > not
>> > >>>>>> really related to me getting code running and out the door. Strip
>> it
>> > >>>>>> to
>> > >>>>>> the essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servlet API
>> > >>>>>> compared to the tapestry way, mention them in a separate chapter
>> so
>> > >>>>>> they
>> > >>>>>> are easy to find / skip as needed.
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> - there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no indication
>> > of
>> > >>>>>> how long it takes to complete.
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> - there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in the
>> > >>>>>> tutorial.
>> > >>>>>> It is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to follow.
>> > It's
>> > >>>>>> impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've got
>> ahead
>> > >>>>>> of
>> > >>>>>> you.
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the
>> barrier
>> > >>>>>> to
>> > >>>>>> entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry does
>> for
>> > >>>>>> you
>> > >>>>>> and how great a framework it is will not matter if people don't
>> get
>> > >>>>>> past
>> > >>>>>> the initial experience.
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard
>> on
>> > >>>>>>> revising
>> > >>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new
>> Tapestry
>> > >>>>>>> Web
>> > >>>>>>> Site:
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to
>> users@tapestry.apache.orgwith
>> > >>>>>>> [SITE]
>> > >>>>>>> in the subject.
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Katia Aresti <ka...@gmail.com>.
2010/11/26 françois facon <fr...@gmail.com>
> Hi Katia,
>
> I would like to speak Spanish or English as well as you speak french.
>
Thank you François, but the french I write that you might read is corrected
- a lot - for several people who review my articles (technically and in
order to correct my french) before publishing. I write for French public,
and I need to improve my french, so that's why I write in french.
> Perhaps you will get more technical feedback, if you write your
> documentation in English.
>
Yes, probably. You might also be aware about the fact that in France books
like "Spring par la pratique" are even more successful than "Spring in
Action". Why ? Because people like to read in their own language. You might
agree or not, personally I don't care about reading english french or
spanish, but that's not the way how most people work. And the best
documentation will be always written in our mother tong language.
Have you asked yourself why is Tapestry very successful in Germany or
Austria ? Is it perhaps for the very successful German book written by Igor
? Why does Thiago write a documentation in Portuguese ? Maybe Brazilian and
Portuguese people, for example, might appreciate this documentation ... Who
could be better than him writing a Portuguese Tapestry 5 book ?
I'm not pretending to do something like Igor or Thiago, I'm just thinking
about a beginner tutorial.
Why would be better a beginner tutorial in english ? Is it because this
tutorial doesn't exist ? Are you kidding ?
@All
Anyway, If somebody here is Spanish or writes Spanish and is interested on
this project, just let me now.
Katia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2010/11/26 Katia Aresti <ka...@gmail.com>
>
> > Agreed, but there are quit a lot of things already published in english
> for
> > tapestry beginners (existing tutorial, articles and so ).
> > Personally I don't fell self confident enough to write a quality tutorial
> > in
> > english, and then translate it to spanish. I mean, sometimes is not a
> > matter
> > of the content iself, but just using crappy english. I write a lot in
> > french
> > and the 95% corrections and feedback I get is concerning my french, not
> my
> > technical content.
> >
> > If you change your mind. I know Spanish content is veeeeery (very very
> very
> > ... ) appreciated and Spanish community is large enough to deserve
> spanish
> > content.
> >
> > Katia
> >
> > 2010/11/26 Javier Molina <ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>
> >
> > > IMHO, a better approach would be to write and publish everything in
> > English
> > > first, then translate to Spanish if there is enough interest. That way,
> > > whatever material is created can reach a larger audience, and in the
> end,
> > > will be of greater quality, as the translation can be done when the
> > content
> > > has had some time to mature and be reviewed by the community.
> > >
> > >
> > > El 26/11/10 17:41, Katia Aresti escribió:
> > >
> > > Javahispano and/or wherever it fits properly
> > >>
> > >> 2010/11/26 Katia Aresti<ka...@gmail.com>
> > >>
> > >> @Javier,
> > >>>
> > >>> Would you be interested on writing an article / tutorial / something
> in
> > >>> binome with me and to publish it on JavaHispano ?
> > >>> In Spanish :)
> > >>>
> > >>> Katia
> > >>>
> > >>> 2010/11/26 Javier Molina<ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>
> > >>>
> > >>> I just sent the ICLA by e-mail a few minutes ago
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> El 22/11/10 12:22, Ulrich Stärk escribió:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Javier,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> you are cordially invited to help out by contributing your proposed
> > >>>>> changes: Please file an ICLA [1] with secretary@apache.org and
> I'll
> > >>>>> grant you write access to the wiki.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The same holds for everyone. Once your ICLA is on file you may
> start
> > >>>>> contributing to the documentation.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Uli
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> [1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Am 22.11.2010 10:37, schrieb Javier Molina:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some
> comments:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> - in general, the new site looks prettier
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> - it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled" post
> > on
> > >>>>>> the front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to know
> > that
> > >>>>>> it's just a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there's now
> a
> > >>>>>> post
> > >>>>>> above that saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about the
> > concept
> > >>>>>> of "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such
> visibility.
> > >>>>>> Do
> > >>>>>> we want things like that to see what potential new users get on
> > their
> > >>>>>> first visit?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> - news feed titles have too large a font
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> - there's too much text in the left column. I know there are a lot
> > of
> > >>>>>> benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> - in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don't make
> > the
> > >>>>>> user choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the
> > instructions
> > >>>>>> for the latest stable version. It's better to have that be out of
> > date
> > >>>>>> when a new version comes out (because it still will work) than
> have
> > >>>>>> the
> > >>>>>> user decide at this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId,
> version
> > >>>>>> and
> > >>>>>> package. It's a test project the user is creating, those values
> are
> > >>>>>> not
> > >>>>>> going to matter. Give the defaults so people can copy and paste
> the
> > >>>>>> command and have the project created, built and run.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> - the big red scary warning about the project layout changing
> across
> > >>>>>> different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user has
> > this
> > >>>>>> problem he will know how to solve it.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> - after the test project has been created, give the user some
> > pointers
> > >>>>>> on where to find things (pages go in
> > src/main/java/com/example/pages,
> > >>>>>> page templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the
> tutorial
> > >>>>>> but
> > >>>>>> if this first experience is too frustrating, people might not even
> > >>>>>> bother to go there.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> - add something to the archetype with commented out code that the
> > user
> > >>>>>> can uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a few
> > lines
> > >>>>>> only, to be easily understandable, and clearly link components in
> > the
> > >>>>>> template with their methods in the page class.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> - the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about topics
> > not
> > >>>>>> really related to me getting code running and out the door. Strip
> it
> > >>>>>> to
> > >>>>>> the essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servlet API
> > >>>>>> compared to the tapestry way, mention them in a separate chapter
> so
> > >>>>>> they
> > >>>>>> are easy to find / skip as needed.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> - there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no indication
> > of
> > >>>>>> how long it takes to complete.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> - there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in the
> > >>>>>> tutorial.
> > >>>>>> It is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to follow.
> > It's
> > >>>>>> impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've got
> ahead
> > >>>>>> of
> > >>>>>> you.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the
> barrier
> > >>>>>> to
> > >>>>>> entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry does
> for
> > >>>>>> you
> > >>>>>> and how great a framework it is will not matter if people don't
> get
> > >>>>>> past
> > >>>>>> the initial experience.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard
> on
> > >>>>>>> revising
> > >>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new
> Tapestry
> > >>>>>>> Web
> > >>>>>>> Site:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to
> users@tapestry.apache.orgwith
> > >>>>>>> [SITE]
> > >>>>>>> in the subject.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by françois facon <fr...@gmail.com>.
Hi Katia,
I would like to speak Spanish or English as well as you speak french.
Perhaps you will get more technical feedback, if you write your
documentation in English.
2010/11/26 Katia Aresti <ka...@gmail.com>
> Agreed, but there are quit a lot of things already published in english for
> tapestry beginners (existing tutorial, articles and so ).
> Personally I don't fell self confident enough to write a quality tutorial
> in
> english, and then translate it to spanish. I mean, sometimes is not a
> matter
> of the content iself, but just using crappy english. I write a lot in
> french
> and the 95% corrections and feedback I get is concerning my french, not my
> technical content.
>
> If you change your mind. I know Spanish content is veeeeery (very very very
> ... ) appreciated and Spanish community is large enough to deserve spanish
> content.
>
> Katia
>
> 2010/11/26 Javier Molina <ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>
>
> > IMHO, a better approach would be to write and publish everything in
> English
> > first, then translate to Spanish if there is enough interest. That way,
> > whatever material is created can reach a larger audience, and in the end,
> > will be of greater quality, as the translation can be done when the
> content
> > has had some time to mature and be reviewed by the community.
> >
> >
> > El 26/11/10 17:41, Katia Aresti escribió:
> >
> > Javahispano and/or wherever it fits properly
> >>
> >> 2010/11/26 Katia Aresti<ka...@gmail.com>
> >>
> >> @Javier,
> >>>
> >>> Would you be interested on writing an article / tutorial / something in
> >>> binome with me and to publish it on JavaHispano ?
> >>> In Spanish :)
> >>>
> >>> Katia
> >>>
> >>> 2010/11/26 Javier Molina<ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>
> >>>
> >>> I just sent the ICLA by e-mail a few minutes ago
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> El 22/11/10 12:22, Ulrich Stärk escribió:
> >>>>
> >>>> Javier,
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> you are cordially invited to help out by contributing your proposed
> >>>>> changes: Please file an ICLA [1] with secretary@apache.org and I'll
> >>>>> grant you write access to the wiki.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The same holds for everyone. Once your ICLA is on file you may start
> >>>>> contributing to the documentation.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Uli
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Am 22.11.2010 10:37, schrieb Javier Molina:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some comments:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - in general, the new site looks prettier
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled" post
> on
> >>>>>> the front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to know
> that
> >>>>>> it's just a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there's now a
> >>>>>> post
> >>>>>> above that saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about the
> concept
> >>>>>> of "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such visibility.
> >>>>>> Do
> >>>>>> we want things like that to see what potential new users get on
> their
> >>>>>> first visit?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - news feed titles have too large a font
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - there's too much text in the left column. I know there are a lot
> of
> >>>>>> benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don't make
> the
> >>>>>> user choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the
> instructions
> >>>>>> for the latest stable version. It's better to have that be out of
> date
> >>>>>> when a new version comes out (because it still will work) than have
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> user decide at this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId, version
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>> package. It's a test project the user is creating, those values are
> >>>>>> not
> >>>>>> going to matter. Give the defaults so people can copy and paste the
> >>>>>> command and have the project created, built and run.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - the big red scary warning about the project layout changing across
> >>>>>> different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user has
> this
> >>>>>> problem he will know how to solve it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - after the test project has been created, give the user some
> pointers
> >>>>>> on where to find things (pages go in
> src/main/java/com/example/pages,
> >>>>>> page templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the tutorial
> >>>>>> but
> >>>>>> if this first experience is too frustrating, people might not even
> >>>>>> bother to go there.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - add something to the archetype with commented out code that the
> user
> >>>>>> can uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a few
> lines
> >>>>>> only, to be easily understandable, and clearly link components in
> the
> >>>>>> template with their methods in the page class.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about topics
> not
> >>>>>> really related to me getting code running and out the door. Strip it
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> the essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servlet API
> >>>>>> compared to the tapestry way, mention them in a separate chapter so
> >>>>>> they
> >>>>>> are easy to find / skip as needed.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no indication
> of
> >>>>>> how long it takes to complete.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in the
> >>>>>> tutorial.
> >>>>>> It is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to follow.
> It's
> >>>>>> impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've got ahead
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>> you.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the barrier
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry does for
> >>>>>> you
> >>>>>> and how great a framework it is will not matter if people don't get
> >>>>>> past
> >>>>>> the initial experience.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
> >>>>>>> revising
> >>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
> >>>>>>> Web
> >>>>>>> Site:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.orgwith
> >>>>>>> [SITE]
> >>>>>>> in the subject.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Katia Aresti <ka...@gmail.com>.
Agreed, but there are quit a lot of things already published in english for
tapestry beginners (existing tutorial, articles and so ).
Personally I don't fell self confident enough to write a quality tutorial in
english, and then translate it to spanish. I mean, sometimes is not a matter
of the content iself, but just using crappy english. I write a lot in french
and the 95% corrections and feedback I get is concerning my french, not my
technical content.
If you change your mind. I know Spanish content is veeeeery (very very very
... ) appreciated and Spanish community is large enough to deserve spanish
content.
Katia
2010/11/26 Javier Molina <ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>
> IMHO, a better approach would be to write and publish everything in English
> first, then translate to Spanish if there is enough interest. That way,
> whatever material is created can reach a larger audience, and in the end,
> will be of greater quality, as the translation can be done when the content
> has had some time to mature and be reviewed by the community.
>
>
> El 26/11/10 17:41, Katia Aresti escribió:
>
> Javahispano and/or wherever it fits properly
>>
>> 2010/11/26 Katia Aresti<ka...@gmail.com>
>>
>> @Javier,
>>>
>>> Would you be interested on writing an article / tutorial / something in
>>> binome with me and to publish it on JavaHispano ?
>>> In Spanish :)
>>>
>>> Katia
>>>
>>> 2010/11/26 Javier Molina<ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>
>>>
>>> I just sent the ICLA by e-mail a few minutes ago
>>>
>>>>
>>>> El 22/11/10 12:22, Ulrich Stärk escribió:
>>>>
>>>> Javier,
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> you are cordially invited to help out by contributing your proposed
>>>>> changes: Please file an ICLA [1] with secretary@apache.org and I'll
>>>>> grant you write access to the wiki.
>>>>>
>>>>> The same holds for everyone. Once your ICLA is on file you may start
>>>>> contributing to the documentation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Uli
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 22.11.2010 10:37, schrieb Javier Molina:
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some comments:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - in general, the new site looks prettier
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled" post on
>>>>>> the front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to know that
>>>>>> it's just a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there's now a
>>>>>> post
>>>>>> above that saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about the concept
>>>>>> of "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such visibility.
>>>>>> Do
>>>>>> we want things like that to see what potential new users get on their
>>>>>> first visit?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - news feed titles have too large a font
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - there's too much text in the left column. I know there are a lot of
>>>>>> benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don't make the
>>>>>> user choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the instructions
>>>>>> for the latest stable version. It's better to have that be out of date
>>>>>> when a new version comes out (because it still will work) than have
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> user decide at this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId, version
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> package. It's a test project the user is creating, those values are
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> going to matter. Give the defaults so people can copy and paste the
>>>>>> command and have the project created, built and run.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - the big red scary warning about the project layout changing across
>>>>>> different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user has this
>>>>>> problem he will know how to solve it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - after the test project has been created, give the user some pointers
>>>>>> on where to find things (pages go in src/main/java/com/example/pages,
>>>>>> page templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the tutorial
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> if this first experience is too frustrating, people might not even
>>>>>> bother to go there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - add something to the archetype with commented out code that the user
>>>>>> can uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a few lines
>>>>>> only, to be easily understandable, and clearly link components in the
>>>>>> template with their methods in the page class.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about topics not
>>>>>> really related to me getting code running and out the door. Strip it
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> the essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servlet API
>>>>>> compared to the tapestry way, mention them in a separate chapter so
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> are easy to find / skip as needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no indication of
>>>>>> how long it takes to complete.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in the
>>>>>> tutorial.
>>>>>> It is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to follow. It's
>>>>>> impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've got ahead
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the barrier
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry does for
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> and how great a framework it is will not matter if people don't get
>>>>>> past
>>>>>> the initial experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>>>>>> revising
>>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
>>>>>>> Web
>>>>>>> Site:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Javier Molina <ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>.
IMHO, a better approach would be to write and publish everything in
English first, then translate to Spanish if there is enough interest.
That way, whatever material is created can reach a larger audience, and
in the end, will be of greater quality, as the translation can be done
when the content has had some time to mature and be reviewed by the
community.
El 26/11/10 17:41, Katia Aresti escribió:
> Javahispano and/or wherever it fits properly
>
> 2010/11/26 Katia Aresti<ka...@gmail.com>
>
>> @Javier,
>>
>> Would you be interested on writing an article / tutorial / something in
>> binome with me and to publish it on JavaHispano ?
>> In Spanish :)
>>
>> Katia
>>
>> 2010/11/26 Javier Molina<ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>
>>
>> I just sent the ICLA by e-mail a few minutes ago
>>>
>>> El 22/11/10 12:22, Ulrich Stärk escribió:
>>>
>>> Javier,
>>>>
>>>> you are cordially invited to help out by contributing your proposed
>>>> changes: Please file an ICLA [1] with secretary@apache.org and I'll
>>>> grant you write access to the wiki.
>>>>
>>>> The same holds for everyone. Once your ICLA is on file you may start
>>>> contributing to the documentation.
>>>>
>>>> Uli
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Am 22.11.2010 10:37, schrieb Javier Molina:
>>>>
>>>>> I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some comments:
>>>>>
>>>>> - in general, the new site looks prettier
>>>>>
>>>>> - it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled" post on
>>>>> the front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to know that
>>>>> it's just a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there's now a post
>>>>> above that saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about the concept
>>>>> of "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such visibility. Do
>>>>> we want things like that to see what potential new users get on their
>>>>> first visit?
>>>>>
>>>>> - news feed titles have too large a font
>>>>>
>>>>> - there's too much text in the left column. I know there are a lot of
>>>>> benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating.
>>>>>
>>>>> - in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don't make the
>>>>> user choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the instructions
>>>>> for the latest stable version. It's better to have that be out of date
>>>>> when a new version comes out (because it still will work) than have the
>>>>> user decide at this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId, version and
>>>>> package. It's a test project the user is creating, those values are not
>>>>> going to matter. Give the defaults so people can copy and paste the
>>>>> command and have the project created, built and run.
>>>>>
>>>>> - the big red scary warning about the project layout changing across
>>>>> different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user has this
>>>>> problem he will know how to solve it.
>>>>>
>>>>> - after the test project has been created, give the user some pointers
>>>>> on where to find things (pages go in src/main/java/com/example/pages,
>>>>> page templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the tutorial but
>>>>> if this first experience is too frustrating, people might not even
>>>>> bother to go there.
>>>>>
>>>>> - add something to the archetype with commented out code that the user
>>>>> can uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a few lines
>>>>> only, to be easily understandable, and clearly link components in the
>>>>> template with their methods in the page class.
>>>>>
>>>>> - the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about topics not
>>>>> really related to me getting code running and out the door. Strip it to
>>>>> the essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servlet API
>>>>> compared to the tapestry way, mention them in a separate chapter so they
>>>>> are easy to find / skip as needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> - there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no indication of
>>>>> how long it takes to complete.
>>>>>
>>>>> - there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in the tutorial.
>>>>> It is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to follow. It's
>>>>> impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've got ahead of
>>>>> you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the barrier to
>>>>> entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry does for you
>>>>> and how great a framework it is will not matter if people don't get past
>>>>> the initial experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>>>>> revising
>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
>>>>>> Site:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Katia Aresti <ka...@gmail.com>.
Javahispano and/or wherever it fits properly
2010/11/26 Katia Aresti <ka...@gmail.com>
> @Javier,
>
> Would you be interested on writing an article / tutorial / something in
> binome with me and to publish it on JavaHispano ?
> In Spanish :)
>
> Katia
>
> 2010/11/26 Javier Molina <ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>
>
> I just sent the ICLA by e-mail a few minutes ago
>>
>> El 22/11/10 12:22, Ulrich Stärk escribió:
>>
>> Javier,
>>>
>>> you are cordially invited to help out by contributing your proposed
>>> changes: Please file an ICLA [1] with secretary@apache.org and I'll
>>> grant you write access to the wiki.
>>>
>>> The same holds for everyone. Once your ICLA is on file you may start
>>> contributing to the documentation.
>>>
>>> Uli
>>>
>>> [1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf
>>>
>>> Am 22.11.2010 10:37, schrieb Javier Molina:
>>>
>>>> I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some comments:
>>>>
>>>> - in general, the new site looks prettier
>>>>
>>>> - it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled" post on
>>>> the front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to know that
>>>> it's just a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there's now a post
>>>> above that saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about the concept
>>>> of "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such visibility. Do
>>>> we want things like that to see what potential new users get on their
>>>> first visit?
>>>>
>>>> - news feed titles have too large a font
>>>>
>>>> - there's too much text in the left column. I know there are a lot of
>>>> benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating.
>>>>
>>>> - in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don't make the
>>>> user choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the instructions
>>>> for the latest stable version. It's better to have that be out of date
>>>> when a new version comes out (because it still will work) than have the
>>>> user decide at this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId, version and
>>>> package. It's a test project the user is creating, those values are not
>>>> going to matter. Give the defaults so people can copy and paste the
>>>> command and have the project created, built and run.
>>>>
>>>> - the big red scary warning about the project layout changing across
>>>> different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user has this
>>>> problem he will know how to solve it.
>>>>
>>>> - after the test project has been created, give the user some pointers
>>>> on where to find things (pages go in src/main/java/com/example/pages,
>>>> page templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the tutorial but
>>>> if this first experience is too frustrating, people might not even
>>>> bother to go there.
>>>>
>>>> - add something to the archetype with commented out code that the user
>>>> can uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a few lines
>>>> only, to be easily understandable, and clearly link components in the
>>>> template with their methods in the page class.
>>>>
>>>> - the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about topics not
>>>> really related to me getting code running and out the door. Strip it to
>>>> the essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servlet API
>>>> compared to the tapestry way, mention them in a separate chapter so they
>>>> are easy to find / skip as needed.
>>>>
>>>> - there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no indication of
>>>> how long it takes to complete.
>>>>
>>>> - there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in the tutorial.
>>>> It is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to follow. It's
>>>> impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've got ahead of
>>>> you.
>>>>
>>>> Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the barrier to
>>>> entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry does for you
>>>> and how great a framework it is will not matter if people don't get past
>>>> the initial experience.
>>>>
>>>> El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
>>>>
>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>>>> revising
>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
>>>>> Site:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Katia Aresti <ka...@gmail.com>.
@Javier,
Would you be interested on writing an article / tutorial / something in
binome with me and to publish it on JavaHispano ?
In Spanish :)
Katia
2010/11/26 Javier Molina <ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>
> I just sent the ICLA by e-mail a few minutes ago
>
> El 22/11/10 12:22, Ulrich Stärk escribió:
>
> Javier,
>>
>> you are cordially invited to help out by contributing your proposed
>> changes: Please file an ICLA [1] with secretary@apache.org and I'll
>> grant you write access to the wiki.
>>
>> The same holds for everyone. Once your ICLA is on file you may start
>> contributing to the documentation.
>>
>> Uli
>>
>> [1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf
>>
>> Am 22.11.2010 10:37, schrieb Javier Molina:
>>
>>> I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some comments:
>>>
>>> - in general, the new site looks prettier
>>>
>>> - it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled" post on
>>> the front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to know that
>>> it's just a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there's now a post
>>> above that saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about the concept
>>> of "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such visibility. Do
>>> we want things like that to see what potential new users get on their
>>> first visit?
>>>
>>> - news feed titles have too large a font
>>>
>>> - there's too much text in the left column. I know there are a lot of
>>> benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating.
>>>
>>> - in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don't make the
>>> user choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the instructions
>>> for the latest stable version. It's better to have that be out of date
>>> when a new version comes out (because it still will work) than have the
>>> user decide at this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId, version and
>>> package. It's a test project the user is creating, those values are not
>>> going to matter. Give the defaults so people can copy and paste the
>>> command and have the project created, built and run.
>>>
>>> - the big red scary warning about the project layout changing across
>>> different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user has this
>>> problem he will know how to solve it.
>>>
>>> - after the test project has been created, give the user some pointers
>>> on where to find things (pages go in src/main/java/com/example/pages,
>>> page templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the tutorial but
>>> if this first experience is too frustrating, people might not even
>>> bother to go there.
>>>
>>> - add something to the archetype with commented out code that the user
>>> can uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a few lines
>>> only, to be easily understandable, and clearly link components in the
>>> template with their methods in the page class.
>>>
>>> - the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about topics not
>>> really related to me getting code running and out the door. Strip it to
>>> the essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servlet API
>>> compared to the tapestry way, mention them in a separate chapter so they
>>> are easy to find / skip as needed.
>>>
>>> - there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no indication of
>>> how long it takes to complete.
>>>
>>> - there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in the tutorial.
>>> It is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to follow. It's
>>> impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've got ahead of
>>> you.
>>>
>>> Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the barrier to
>>> entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry does for you
>>> and how great a framework it is will not matter if people don't get past
>>> the initial experience.
>>>
>>> El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
>>>
>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>>> revising
>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
>>>> Site:
>>>>
>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>
>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>> [SITE]
>>>> in the subject.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Javier Molina <ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>.
I just sent the ICLA by e-mail a few minutes ago
El 22/11/10 12:22, Ulrich Stärk escribió:
> Javier,
>
> you are cordially invited to help out by contributing your proposed
> changes: Please file an ICLA [1] with secretary@apache.org and I'll
> grant you write access to the wiki.
>
> The same holds for everyone. Once your ICLA is on file you may start
> contributing to the documentation.
>
> Uli
>
> [1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf
>
> Am 22.11.2010 10:37, schrieb Javier Molina:
>> I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some comments:
>>
>> - in general, the new site looks prettier
>>
>> - it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled" post on
>> the front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to know that
>> it's just a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there's now a post
>> above that saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about the concept
>> of "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such visibility. Do
>> we want things like that to see what potential new users get on their
>> first visit?
>>
>> - news feed titles have too large a font
>>
>> - there's too much text in the left column. I know there are a lot of
>> benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating.
>>
>> - in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don't make the
>> user choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the instructions
>> for the latest stable version. It's better to have that be out of date
>> when a new version comes out (because it still will work) than have the
>> user decide at this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId, version and
>> package. It's a test project the user is creating, those values are not
>> going to matter. Give the defaults so people can copy and paste the
>> command and have the project created, built and run.
>>
>> - the big red scary warning about the project layout changing across
>> different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user has this
>> problem he will know how to solve it.
>>
>> - after the test project has been created, give the user some pointers
>> on where to find things (pages go in src/main/java/com/example/pages,
>> page templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the tutorial but
>> if this first experience is too frustrating, people might not even
>> bother to go there.
>>
>> - add something to the archetype with commented out code that the user
>> can uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a few lines
>> only, to be easily understandable, and clearly link components in the
>> template with their methods in the page class.
>>
>> - the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about topics not
>> really related to me getting code running and out the door. Strip it to
>> the essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servlet API
>> compared to the tapestry way, mention them in a separate chapter so they
>> are easy to find / skip as needed.
>>
>> - there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no indication of
>> how long it takes to complete.
>>
>> - there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in the tutorial.
>> It is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to follow. It's
>> impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've got ahead of
>> you.
>>
>> Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the barrier to
>> entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry does for you
>> and how great a framework it is will not matter if people don't get past
>> the initial experience.
>>
>> El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>> revising
>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
>>> Site:
>>>
>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>
>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>> [SITE]
>>> in the subject.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>.
Javier,
Please also subscribe to the dev@tapestry.apache.org mailing list.
Am 29.11.2010 um 09:14 schrieb Javier Molina <ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>:
> javier@anatomicsoft.com
>
> thanks
>
> El 29/11/10 08:41, Ulrich Stärk escribió:
>> Great! I can see it on file and I just need your confluence username now
>> to grant you access.
>>
>> Uli
>>
>> On 27.11.2010 10:43, Javier Molina wrote:
>>> I have received confirmation from Craig L Russell that my ICLA is now
>>> on file.
>>>
>>> El 22/11/10 12:22, Ulrich Stärk escribió:
>>>> Javier,
>>>>
>>>> you are cordially invited to help out by contributing your proposed
>>>> changes: Please file an ICLA [1] with secretary@apache.org and I'll
>>>> grant you write access to the wiki.
>>>>
>>>> The same holds for everyone. Once your ICLA is on file you may start
>>>> contributing to the documentation.
>>>>
>>>> Uli
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>.
Javier,
you are cordially invited to help out by contributing your proposed
changes: Please file an ICLA [1] with secretary@apache.org and I'll
grant you write access to the wiki.
The same holds for everyone. Once your ICLA is on file you may start
contributing to the documentation.
Uli
[1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf
Am 22.11.2010 10:37, schrieb Javier Molina:
> I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some comments:
>
> - in general, the new site looks prettier
>
> - it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled" post on
> the front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to know that
> it's just a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there's now a post
> above that saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about the concept
> of "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such visibility. Do
> we want things like that to see what potential new users get on their
> first visit?
>
> - news feed titles have too large a font
>
> - there's too much text in the left column. I know there are a lot of
> benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating.
>
> - in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don't make the
> user choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the instructions
> for the latest stable version. It's better to have that be out of date
> when a new version comes out (because it still will work) than have the
> user decide at this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId, version and
> package. It's a test project the user is creating, those values are not
> going to matter. Give the defaults so people can copy and paste the
> command and have the project created, built and run.
>
> - the big red scary warning about the project layout changing across
> different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user has this
> problem he will know how to solve it.
>
> - after the test project has been created, give the user some pointers
> on where to find things (pages go in src/main/java/com/example/pages,
> page templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the tutorial but
> if this first experience is too frustrating, people might not even
> bother to go there.
>
> - add something to the archetype with commented out code that the user
> can uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a few lines
> only, to be easily understandable, and clearly link components in the
> template with their methods in the page class.
>
> - the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about topics not
> really related to me getting code running and out the door. Strip it to
> the essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servlet API
> compared to the tapestry way, mention them in a separate chapter so they
> are easy to find / skip as needed.
>
> - there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no indication of
> how long it takes to complete.
>
> - there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in the tutorial.
> It is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to follow. It's
> impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've got ahead of
> you.
>
> Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the barrier to
> entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry does for you
> and how great a framework it is will not matter if people don't get past
> the initial experience.
>
> El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>> revising
>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
>> Site:
>>
>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>
>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>> [SITE]
>> in the subject.
>>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Greg Pagendam-Turner <gr...@liftyourgame.com>.
I agree. Well thought out Javier.
Regards,
Greg
On 22/11/2010, at 9:11 PM, Geoff Callender <ge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Very good observations, all of them.
>
> On 22/11/2010, at 8:37 PM, Javier Molina wrote:
>
>> I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some comments:
>>
>> - in general, the new site looks prettier
>>
>> - it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled" post on the front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to know that it's just a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there's now a post above that saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about the concept of "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such visibility. Do we want things like that to see what potential new users get on their first visit?
>>
>> - news feed titles have too large a font
>>
>> - there's too much text in the left column. I know there are a lot of benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating.
>>
>> - in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don't make the user choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the instructions for the latest stable version. It's better to have that be out of date when a new version comes out (because it still will work) than have the user decide at this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId, version and package. It's a test project the user is creating, those values are not going to matter. Give the defaults so people can copy and paste the command and have the project created, built and run.
>>
>> - the big red scary warning about the project layout changing across different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user has this problem he will know how to solve it.
>>
>> - after the test project has been created, give the user some pointers on where to find things (pages go in src/main/java/com/example/pages, page templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the tutorial but if this first experience is too frustrating, people might not even bother to go there.
>>
>> - add something to the archetype with commented out code that the user can uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a few lines only, to be easily understandable, and clearly link components in the template with their methods in the page class.
>>
>> - the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about topics not really related to me getting code running and out the door. Strip it to the essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servlet API compared to the tapestry way, mention them in a separate chapter so they are easy to find / skip as needed.
>>
>> - there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no indication of how long it takes to complete.
>>
>> - there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in the tutorial. It is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to follow. It's impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've got ahead of you.
>>
>> Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the barrier to entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry does for you and how great a framework it is will not matter if people don't get past the initial experience.
>>
>> El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on revising
>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web Site:
>>>
>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>
>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with [SITE]
>>> in the subject.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Geoff Callender <ge...@gmail.com>.
Very good observations, all of them.
On 22/11/2010, at 8:37 PM, Javier Molina wrote:
> I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some comments:
>
> - in general, the new site looks prettier
>
> - it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled" post on the front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to know that it's just a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there's now a post above that saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about the concept of "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such visibility. Do we want things like that to see what potential new users get on their first visit?
>
> - news feed titles have too large a font
>
> - there's too much text in the left column. I know there are a lot of benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating.
>
> - in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don't make the user choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the instructions for the latest stable version. It's better to have that be out of date when a new version comes out (because it still will work) than have the user decide at this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId, version and package. It's a test project the user is creating, those values are not going to matter. Give the defaults so people can copy and paste the command and have the project created, built and run.
>
> - the big red scary warning about the project layout changing across different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user has this problem he will know how to solve it.
>
> - after the test project has been created, give the user some pointers on where to find things (pages go in src/main/java/com/example/pages, page templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the tutorial but if this first experience is too frustrating, people might not even bother to go there.
>
> - add something to the archetype with commented out code that the user can uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a few lines only, to be easily understandable, and clearly link components in the template with their methods in the page class.
>
> - the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about topics not really related to me getting code running and out the door. Strip it to the essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servlet API compared to the tapestry way, mention them in a separate chapter so they are easy to find / skip as needed.
>
> - there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no indication of how long it takes to complete.
>
> - there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in the tutorial. It is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to follow. It's impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've got ahead of you.
>
> Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the barrier to entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry does for you and how great a framework it is will not matter if people don't get past the initial experience.
>
> El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on revising
>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web Site:
>>
>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>
>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with [SITE]
>> in the subject.
>>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Javier Molina <ja...@comunicamultimedia.com>.
I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some comments:
- in general, the new site looks prettier
- it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled" post on
the front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to know that
it's just a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there's now a post
above that saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about the concept
of "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such visibility. Do
we want things like that to see what potential new users get on their
first visit?
- news feed titles have too large a font
- there's too much text in the left column. I know there are a lot of
benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating.
- in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don't make the
user choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the instructions
for the latest stable version. It's better to have that be out of date
when a new version comes out (because it still will work) than have the
user decide at this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId, version and
package. It's a test project the user is creating, those values are not
going to matter. Give the defaults so people can copy and paste the
command and have the project created, built and run.
- the big red scary warning about the project layout changing across
different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user has this
problem he will know how to solve it.
- after the test project has been created, give the user some pointers
on where to find things (pages go in src/main/java/com/example/pages,
page templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the tutorial but
if this first experience is too frustrating, people might not even
bother to go there.
- add something to the archetype with commented out code that the user
can uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a few lines
only, to be easily understandable, and clearly link components in the
template with their methods in the page class.
- the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about topics not
really related to me getting code running and out the door. Strip it to
the essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servlet API
compared to the tapestry way, mention them in a separate chapter so they
are easy to find / skip as needed.
- there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no indication of
how long it takes to complete.
- there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in the tutorial.
It is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to follow. It's
impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've got ahead of you.
Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the barrier to
entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry does for you
and how great a framework it is will not matter if people don't get past
the initial experience.
El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on revising
> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web Site:
>
> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>
> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with [SITE]
> in the subject.
>
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Massimo Lusetti <ml...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Igor Drobiazko
<ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Great. Thanks to all who was involved.
Yep! ... If anyone of you will come here to Italy I owe you a bottle
of red wine! Amazing job.
Cheers
--
Massimo
http://meridio.blogspot.com
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
There's going to be a lot of little tweaks needed ... and the way we have
this cobbled together, it can be a couple of hours from the change in
Confluence to when it goes live on the tapestry.apache.org.
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Katia Aresti <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> congratulations for the website work !!!
>
> I will give you my feedback
>
> Katia
>
> 2010/11/19 Igor Drobiazko <ig...@gmail.com>
>
> > Great. Thanks to all who was involved.
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hlship@gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
> > > revising
> > > the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
> > > Site:
> > >
> > > http://tapestry.apache.org/
> > >
> > > Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
> > [SITE]
> > > in the subject.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Howard M. Lewis Ship
> > >
> > > Creator of Apache Tapestry
> > >
> > > The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> > > learn
> > > how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
> > >
> > > (971) 678-5210
> > > http://howardlewisship.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Igor Drobiazko
> > http://tapestry5.de
> >
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator of Apache Tapestry
The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to learn
how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
(971) 678-5210
http://howardlewisship.com
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Katia Aresti <ka...@gmail.com>.
congratulations for the website work !!!
I will give you my feedback
Katia
2010/11/19 Igor Drobiazko <ig...@gmail.com>
> Great. Thanks to all who was involved.
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hlship@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
> > revising
> > the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
> > Site:
> >
> > http://tapestry.apache.org/
> >
> > Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
> [SITE]
> > in the subject.
> >
> > --
> > Howard M. Lewis Ship
> >
> > Creator of Apache Tapestry
> >
> > The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> > learn
> > how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
> >
> > (971) 678-5210
> > http://howardlewisship.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Igor Drobiazko
> http://tapestry5.de
>
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Igor Drobiazko <ig...@gmail.com>.
Great. Thanks to all who was involved.
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>wrote:
> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
> revising
> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
> Site:
>
> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>
> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with [SITE]
> in the subject.
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn
> how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
--
Best regards,
Igor Drobiazko
http://tapestry5.de
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 19:15:27 -0200, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
> revising the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new
> Tapestry Web Site:
> http://tapestry.apache.org/
This is absolutely awesome. The weakest part of Tapestry has been
documentation and this is a big improvement.
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by ael <al...@dash.com.ph>.
Good Job Howard,
Another Link Tapestry Tutorial
http://tapestry.apache.org/community-contributions.html
http://lombok.demon.co.uk/tapestry5Demo/
Also it can help....
--
View this message in context: http://tapestry.1045711.n5.nabble.com/Tapestry-Web-Site-Updated-tp3273033p3274771.html
Sent from the Tapestry - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Christophe Cordenier <ch...@gmail.com>.
You're right, i will add the links to
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAP5 and
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAP5 in the About page.
2010/11/23 Borut Bolčina <bo...@gmail.com>
> I would, but there is no link to JIRA, at least I can no longer find it.
>
> -Borut
>
> 2010/11/23 Christophe Cordenier <ch...@gmail.com>
>
> > Hi
> >
> > Once again all your comments are valuable, but a mailing list is too poor
> > to
> > keep track of those, please signup to add comments where needed and/or
> use
> > JIRA with documentation task.
> >
> > 2010/11/23 Borut Bolčina <bo...@gmail.com>
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > first congratulations on a new site!
> > >
> > > Today I needed some information about how to test my services, so I
> > visited
> > > the new site and started browsing. Couldn't find the answer. Can
> someone
> > > give me some pointers here?
> > >
> > > First I looked in the FAQ and serached for "test" withing the page with
> > my
> > > browser. Found 2 irrelavant hits, so I went on to the User guide. There
> > is
> > > a
> > > section Test, but covers only testing of pages.
> > >
> > > Inspecting further to Tapestry IOC and eyeballing for something useful
> I
> > > discovered a lin to registry startup, which briefly mentions what would
> > one
> > > want to use it:
> > >
> > > "However, you may want to do some integration testing using the
> Registry
> > > from within a test case,"
> > >
> > > I know there are projects out there, so you can inspect the source code
> > to
> > > get an example of how to test the services, but I feel it should be
> > better
> > > explained right on the offical page - at least in the FAQ section. It
> is
> > > very hard to embrace testing to start with, so some guidance is much
> > > appreciated.
> > >
> > > And the red background links must go away.
> > >
> > > The download section should include maven instruction, at least the
> > > dependency section of the pom should be listed.
> > >
> > > There should be more room at the bottom between the last paragraph and
> > the
> > > footer. The header on most pages is very "white", the bottom has no
> space
> > > at
> > > all. Give it some air.
> > >
> > > Why is there a Book section in the Documentation with only one link to
> > more
> > > books? It look like an error. At least last two books (their images and
> > > caption) should be there.
> > >
> > > I like the ComponentCheetSheet! A sentance or two more on each
> annotation
> > > would be great.
> > >
> > > The tutorial Setting up your environment should be improved.
> Alternatives
> > > should be described on how to run T5 apps in the Eclipse or other IDEs,
> > but
> > > not in the text as that would make it too long. I think there should be
> > > links for alternative setups - like how to run the T5 app from a main
> > class
> > > and even start VisualVM for early debugging and optimizing (each
> > > alternative
> > > has pros and cons). There is no mention of m2eclipse plugin. Of course
> > one
> > > can use JDK 6 also - only 1.5 is there. There is a sentence: "You
> should
> > > not
> > > have to download this directly". Why are then download links on the
> > > download
> > > page and no mention of maven at the same time. It is confusing for
> newbs.
> > >
> > > The should also be a more visible link to T5 wiki somewhere.
> > >
> > > I hope I wasn't too harsh, just wanna put my perspective.
> > >
> > > -Borut
> > >
> > >
> > > 2010/11/19 Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>
> > >
> > > > We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
> > > > revising
> > > > the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
> Web
> > > > Site:
> > > >
> > > > http://tapestry.apache.org/
> > > >
> > > > Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
> > > [SITE]
> > > > in the subject.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Howard M. Lewis Ship
> > > >
> > > > Creator of Apache Tapestry
> > > >
> > > > The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me
> to
> > > > learn
> > > > how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
> > > >
> > > > (971) 678-5210
> > > > http://howardlewisship.com
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Christophe Cordenier.
> >
> > Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
> > Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
> >
>
--
Regards,
Christophe Cordenier.
Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Borut Bolčina <bo...@gmail.com>.
I would, but there is no link to JIRA, at least I can no longer find it.
-Borut
2010/11/23 Christophe Cordenier <ch...@gmail.com>
> Hi
>
> Once again all your comments are valuable, but a mailing list is too poor
> to
> keep track of those, please signup to add comments where needed and/or use
> JIRA with documentation task.
>
> 2010/11/23 Borut Bolčina <bo...@gmail.com>
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > first congratulations on a new site!
> >
> > Today I needed some information about how to test my services, so I
> visited
> > the new site and started browsing. Couldn't find the answer. Can someone
> > give me some pointers here?
> >
> > First I looked in the FAQ and serached for "test" withing the page with
> my
> > browser. Found 2 irrelavant hits, so I went on to the User guide. There
> is
> > a
> > section Test, but covers only testing of pages.
> >
> > Inspecting further to Tapestry IOC and eyeballing for something useful I
> > discovered a lin to registry startup, which briefly mentions what would
> one
> > want to use it:
> >
> > "However, you may want to do some integration testing using the Registry
> > from within a test case,"
> >
> > I know there are projects out there, so you can inspect the source code
> to
> > get an example of how to test the services, but I feel it should be
> better
> > explained right on the offical page - at least in the FAQ section. It is
> > very hard to embrace testing to start with, so some guidance is much
> > appreciated.
> >
> > And the red background links must go away.
> >
> > The download section should include maven instruction, at least the
> > dependency section of the pom should be listed.
> >
> > There should be more room at the bottom between the last paragraph and
> the
> > footer. The header on most pages is very "white", the bottom has no space
> > at
> > all. Give it some air.
> >
> > Why is there a Book section in the Documentation with only one link to
> more
> > books? It look like an error. At least last two books (their images and
> > caption) should be there.
> >
> > I like the ComponentCheetSheet! A sentance or two more on each annotation
> > would be great.
> >
> > The tutorial Setting up your environment should be improved. Alternatives
> > should be described on how to run T5 apps in the Eclipse or other IDEs,
> but
> > not in the text as that would make it too long. I think there should be
> > links for alternative setups - like how to run the T5 app from a main
> class
> > and even start VisualVM for early debugging and optimizing (each
> > alternative
> > has pros and cons). There is no mention of m2eclipse plugin. Of course
> one
> > can use JDK 6 also - only 1.5 is there. There is a sentence: "You should
> > not
> > have to download this directly". Why are then download links on the
> > download
> > page and no mention of maven at the same time. It is confusing for newbs.
> >
> > The should also be a more visible link to T5 wiki somewhere.
> >
> > I hope I wasn't too harsh, just wanna put my perspective.
> >
> > -Borut
> >
> >
> > 2010/11/19 Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>
> >
> > > We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
> > > revising
> > > the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
> > > Site:
> > >
> > > http://tapestry.apache.org/
> > >
> > > Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
> > [SITE]
> > > in the subject.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Howard M. Lewis Ship
> > >
> > > Creator of Apache Tapestry
> > >
> > > The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> > > learn
> > > how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
> > >
> > > (971) 678-5210
> > > http://howardlewisship.com
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Christophe Cordenier.
>
> Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
> Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
>
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Christophe Cordenier <ch...@gmail.com>.
Hi
Once again all your comments are valuable, but a mailing list is too poor to
keep track of those, please signup to add comments where needed and/or use
JIRA with documentation task.
2010/11/23 Borut Bolčina <bo...@gmail.com>
> Hello,
>
> first congratulations on a new site!
>
> Today I needed some information about how to test my services, so I visited
> the new site and started browsing. Couldn't find the answer. Can someone
> give me some pointers here?
>
> First I looked in the FAQ and serached for "test" withing the page with my
> browser. Found 2 irrelavant hits, so I went on to the User guide. There is
> a
> section Test, but covers only testing of pages.
>
> Inspecting further to Tapestry IOC and eyeballing for something useful I
> discovered a lin to registry startup, which briefly mentions what would one
> want to use it:
>
> "However, you may want to do some integration testing using the Registry
> from within a test case,"
>
> I know there are projects out there, so you can inspect the source code to
> get an example of how to test the services, but I feel it should be better
> explained right on the offical page - at least in the FAQ section. It is
> very hard to embrace testing to start with, so some guidance is much
> appreciated.
>
> And the red background links must go away.
>
> The download section should include maven instruction, at least the
> dependency section of the pom should be listed.
>
> There should be more room at the bottom between the last paragraph and the
> footer. The header on most pages is very "white", the bottom has no space
> at
> all. Give it some air.
>
> Why is there a Book section in the Documentation with only one link to more
> books? It look like an error. At least last two books (their images and
> caption) should be there.
>
> I like the ComponentCheetSheet! A sentance or two more on each annotation
> would be great.
>
> The tutorial Setting up your environment should be improved. Alternatives
> should be described on how to run T5 apps in the Eclipse or other IDEs, but
> not in the text as that would make it too long. I think there should be
> links for alternative setups - like how to run the T5 app from a main class
> and even start VisualVM for early debugging and optimizing (each
> alternative
> has pros and cons). There is no mention of m2eclipse plugin. Of course one
> can use JDK 6 also - only 1.5 is there. There is a sentence: "You should
> not
> have to download this directly". Why are then download links on the
> download
> page and no mention of maven at the same time. It is confusing for newbs.
>
> The should also be a more visible link to T5 wiki somewhere.
>
> I hope I wasn't too harsh, just wanna put my perspective.
>
> -Borut
>
>
> 2010/11/19 Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>
>
> > We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
> > revising
> > the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
> > Site:
> >
> > http://tapestry.apache.org/
> >
> > Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
> [SITE]
> > in the subject.
> >
> > --
> > Howard M. Lewis Ship
> >
> > Creator of Apache Tapestry
> >
> > The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> > learn
> > how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
> >
> > (971) 678-5210
> > http://howardlewisship.com
> >
>
--
Regards,
Christophe Cordenier.
Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Borut Bolčina <bo...@gmail.com>.
Hello,
first congratulations on a new site!
Today I needed some information about how to test my services, so I visited
the new site and started browsing. Couldn't find the answer. Can someone
give me some pointers here?
First I looked in the FAQ and serached for "test" withing the page with my
browser. Found 2 irrelavant hits, so I went on to the User guide. There is a
section Test, but covers only testing of pages.
Inspecting further to Tapestry IOC and eyeballing for something useful I
discovered a lin to registry startup, which briefly mentions what would one
want to use it:
"However, you may want to do some integration testing using the Registry
from within a test case,"
I know there are projects out there, so you can inspect the source code to
get an example of how to test the services, but I feel it should be better
explained right on the offical page - at least in the FAQ section. It is
very hard to embrace testing to start with, so some guidance is much
appreciated.
And the red background links must go away.
The download section should include maven instruction, at least the
dependency section of the pom should be listed.
There should be more room at the bottom between the last paragraph and the
footer. The header on most pages is very "white", the bottom has no space at
all. Give it some air.
Why is there a Book section in the Documentation with only one link to more
books? It look like an error. At least last two books (their images and
caption) should be there.
I like the ComponentCheetSheet! A sentance or two more on each annotation
would be great.
The tutorial Setting up your environment should be improved. Alternatives
should be described on how to run T5 apps in the Eclipse or other IDEs, but
not in the text as that would make it too long. I think there should be
links for alternative setups - like how to run the T5 app from a main class
and even start VisualVM for early debugging and optimizing (each alternative
has pros and cons). There is no mention of m2eclipse plugin. Of course one
can use JDK 6 also - only 1.5 is there. There is a sentence: "You should not
have to download this directly". Why are then download links on the download
page and no mention of maven at the same time. It is confusing for newbs.
The should also be a more visible link to T5 wiki somewhere.
I hope I wasn't too harsh, just wanna put my perspective.
-Borut
2010/11/19 Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>
> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
> revising
> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
> Site:
>
> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>
> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with [SITE]
> in the subject.
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn
> how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Christian Riedel <cr...@googlemail.com>.
you should consider redirecting from
http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5/
to
http://tapestry.apache.org/
with code 301 so that it becomes result #1 here: http://www.google.de/search?hl=en&q=tapestry+5
what do you think?
Am 22.11.2010 um 15:37 schrieb Yunhua Sang:
> Congratulations for the new site, it looks a lot better.
>
> One problem, The new site does not work properly with IE7, which is the only
> one I can use in my company. Somehow I cannot scroll the page down, and
> "page down" key also doesn't work.
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>> revising
>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
>> Site:
>>
>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>
>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with [SITE]
>> in the subject.
>>
>> --
>> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>>
>> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>>
>> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
>> learn
>> how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>>
>> (971) 678-5210
>> http://howardlewisship.com
>>
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Andreas Andreou <an...@di.uoa.gr>.
thx - scrolling is fine now in IE
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 17:16, Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de> wrote:
> Andreas,
>
> if you commit the fix to
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tapestry/tapestry-site/branches/post-5.2-site/styles/style.css
> the problem will be fixed immediately.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Uli
>
> Am 22.11.2010 16:07, schrieb Andreas Andreou:
>>
>> thx for pointing that out - i see similar problem in IE8 and have
>> tracked it down to
>> a css rule that seems to mess up IE... should be fixed in a little while
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 16:37, Yunhua Sang<yu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Congratulations for the new site, it looks a lot better.
>>>
>>> One problem, The new site does not work properly with IE7, which is the
>>> only
>>> one I can use in my company. Somehow I cannot scroll the page down, and
>>> "page down" key also doesn't work.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Howard Lewis Ship<hl...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>>> revising
>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
>>>> Site:
>>>>
>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>
>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>> [SITE]
>>>> in the subject.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>>>>
>>>> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>>>>
>>>> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
>>>> learn
>>>> how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>>>>
>>>> (971) 678-5210
>>>> http://howardlewisship.com
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Andreas Andreou - andyhot@apache.org - http://blog.andyhot.gr
Tapestry PMC / Tacos developer
Open Source / JEE Consulting
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>.
Andreas,
if you commit the fix to
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tapestry/tapestry-site/branches/post-5.2-site/styles/style.css
the problem will be fixed immediately.
Thanks,
Uli
Am 22.11.2010 16:07, schrieb Andreas Andreou:
> thx for pointing that out - i see similar problem in IE8 and have
> tracked it down to
> a css rule that seems to mess up IE... should be fixed in a little while
>
> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 16:37, Yunhua Sang<yu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Congratulations for the new site, it looks a lot better.
>>
>> One problem, The new site does not work properly with IE7, which is the only
>> one I can use in my company. Somehow I cannot scroll the page down, and
>> "page down" key also doesn't work.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Howard Lewis Ship<hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>> revising
>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
>>> Site:
>>>
>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>
>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with [SITE]
>>> in the subject.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>>>
>>> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>>>
>>> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
>>> learn
>>> how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>>>
>>> (971) 678-5210
>>> http://howardlewisship.com
>>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Andreas Andreou <an...@di.uoa.gr>.
thx for pointing that out - i see similar problem in IE8 and have
tracked it down to
a css rule that seems to mess up IE... should be fixed in a little while
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 16:37, Yunhua Sang <yu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Congratulations for the new site, it looks a lot better.
>
> One problem, The new site does not work properly with IE7, which is the only
> one I can use in my company. Somehow I cannot scroll the page down, and
> "page down" key also doesn't work.
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>> revising
>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
>> Site:
>>
>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>
>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with [SITE]
>> in the subject.
>>
>> --
>> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>>
>> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>>
>> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
>> learn
>> how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>>
>> (971) 678-5210
>> http://howardlewisship.com
>>
>
--
Andreas Andreou - andyhot@apache.org - http://blog.andyhot.gr
Tapestry PMC / Tacos developer
Open Source / JEE Consulting
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Yunhua Sang <yu...@gmail.com>.
Congratulations for the new site, it looks a lot better.
One problem, The new site does not work properly with IE7, which is the only
one I can use in my company. Somehow I cannot scroll the page down, and
"page down" key also doesn't work.
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
> revising
> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web
> Site:
>
> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>
> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with [SITE]
> in the subject.
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn
> how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>.
No forum. Forums are a hell to administer and moderate. Apart from that, mailing lists are how
Apache projects communicate. Use Nabble if you want to have the look and feel of a forum.
Uli
On 24.11.2010 04:56, Paul Stanton wrote:
> how about adding a forum?
>
> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of people don't participate in this
> 'user-group' community and therefore don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>
> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>
> p.
>
> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on revising
>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web Site:
>>
>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>
>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with [SITE]
>> in the subject.
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Massimo Lusetti <ml...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 1:41 AM, Andreas Andreou <an...@di.uoa.gr> wrote:
> So, anyway, Tapestry has the mailing list, its website/documentation and there's
> always StackOverflow. Perhaps it makes sense to define a strategy on how to take
> advantage of that last one though
Completely agree.
Cheers
--
Massimo
http://meridio.blogspot.com
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>.
I didn't mean to start an egg throwing contest with anyone, just thought
it was a good idea to bring up for discussion.
I appreciate all the comments and opinions, hopefully something comes of
it even if it's just a few more people monitoring the SO list.
I won't post again on the topic because I have nothing more to say.
cheers, p.
On 25/11/2010 8:22 PM, Ulrich Stärk wrote:
> But registering with StackOverflow or a forum is OK or what?
>
> On 25.11.2010 10:19, Paul Stanton wrote:
>> "I don't see why those questions can't be asked and answered on the
>> mailing lists. "
>>
>> you are missing the point. they probably haven't been asked on the ml
>> because the user doesn't want
>> to register/subscribe/manage the ml. some people have a general
>> aversion to ml's.
>>
>> p.
>>
>> On 25/11/2010 7:07 PM, Ulrich Stärk wrote:
>>> I don't see why those questions can't be asked and answered on the
>>> mailing lists.
>>>
>>> If you want to ask or answer questions on stackoverflow, do it. If
>>> you want to create a forum
>>> that's fine too. But the only *official* help source will be the
>>> mailing lists. Everything else
>>> will just partition the community.
>>>
>>> Uli
>>>
>>> On 25.11.2010 02:12, Paul Stanton wrote:
>>>> Andreas,
>>>>
>>>> Agreed 100%.
>>>>
>>>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/tapestry
>>>> or as a feed:
>>>> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/tapestry
>>>>
>>>> Maybe the tapestry site can leverage stackoverflow as it's
>>>> recommended question/answer forum?
>>>>
>>>> To work however, this would require some of the people here to take
>>>> interest.....
>>>>
>>>> p.
>>>>
>>>> On 25/11/2010 11:41 AM, Andreas Andreou wrote:
>>>>> You're probably right on the reasons, but the thing is that it's a
>>>>> pain having
>>>>> to monitor multiple sources of user feedback - there's just never
>>>>> enought free
>>>>> time to do so.
>>>>>
>>>>> And there's also a few big risks:
>>>>> 1) Making the community appear to be unresponsive
>>>>> 2) Frustrating users who never get their questions answered
>>>>> 3) Spreading the info to multiple places is hard to update
>>>>> and easy to get obsolete
>>>>>
>>>>> So, anyway, Tapestry has the mailing list, its
>>>>> website/documentation and there's
>>>>> always StackOverflow. Perhaps it makes sense to define a strategy
>>>>> on how to take
>>>>> advantage of that last one though
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 01:36, Paul Stanton<pa...@mapshed.com.au>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> it did. it's still there but doesn't have the community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the reason it dies was twofold:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. it was very spam prone: the way it was set up did not do
>>>>>> enough to
>>>>>> limit/kill spammers
>>>>>> 2. it did not get the tapestry community support - it was not even
>>>>>> acknowledged by the tapestry site
>>>>>>
>>>>>> that's not to say a forum wouldn't work if setup and supported by
>>>>>> the core
>>>>>> tapestry community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25/11/2010 8:18 AM, Robert Zeigler wrote:
>>>>>>> Tapestry had a forum for awhile. I think it died.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 11/244:46 AM , Paul Stanton wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long
>>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>>>> prefer ml, that's not the point!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to
>>>>>>>> configure their
>>>>>>>> inbox for ml and give up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't
>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>> happen!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute
>>>>>>>> to most
>>>>>>>> tapestry questions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to
>>>>>>>>> search
>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>>>>>>>>>> how about adding a forum?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a
>>>>>>>>>> lot of
>>>>>>>>>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and
>>>>>>>>>> therefore
>>>>>>>>>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working
>>>>>>>>>>> hard on
>>>>>>>>>>> revising
>>>>>>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new
>>>>>>>>>>> Tapestry
>>>>>>>>>>> Web Site:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to
>>>>>>>>>>> users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>>>>>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>>>>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>
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>
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>.
But registering with StackOverflow or a forum is OK or what?
On 25.11.2010 10:19, Paul Stanton wrote:
> "I don't see why those questions can't be asked and answered on the mailing lists. "
>
> you are missing the point. they probably haven't been asked on the ml because the user doesn't want
> to register/subscribe/manage the ml. some people have a general aversion to ml's.
>
> p.
>
> On 25/11/2010 7:07 PM, Ulrich Stärk wrote:
>> I don't see why those questions can't be asked and answered on the mailing lists.
>>
>> If you want to ask or answer questions on stackoverflow, do it. If you want to create a forum
>> that's fine too. But the only *official* help source will be the mailing lists. Everything else
>> will just partition the community.
>>
>> Uli
>>
>> On 25.11.2010 02:12, Paul Stanton wrote:
>>> Andreas,
>>>
>>> Agreed 100%.
>>>
>>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/tapestry
>>> or as a feed:
>>> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/tapestry
>>>
>>> Maybe the tapestry site can leverage stackoverflow as it's recommended question/answer forum?
>>>
>>> To work however, this would require some of the people here to take interest.....
>>>
>>> p.
>>>
>>> On 25/11/2010 11:41 AM, Andreas Andreou wrote:
>>>> You're probably right on the reasons, but the thing is that it's a pain having
>>>> to monitor multiple sources of user feedback - there's just never enought free
>>>> time to do so.
>>>>
>>>> And there's also a few big risks:
>>>> 1) Making the community appear to be unresponsive
>>>> 2) Frustrating users who never get their questions answered
>>>> 3) Spreading the info to multiple places is hard to update
>>>> and easy to get obsolete
>>>>
>>>> So, anyway, Tapestry has the mailing list, its website/documentation and there's
>>>> always StackOverflow. Perhaps it makes sense to define a strategy on how to take
>>>> advantage of that last one though
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 01:36, Paul Stanton<pa...@mapshed.com.au> wrote:
>>>>> it did. it's still there but doesn't have the community.
>>>>>
>>>>> the reason it dies was twofold:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. it was very spam prone: the way it was set up did not do enough to
>>>>> limit/kill spammers
>>>>> 2. it did not get the tapestry community support - it was not even
>>>>> acknowledged by the tapestry site
>>>>>
>>>>> that's not to say a forum wouldn't work if setup and supported by the core
>>>>> tapestry community.
>>>>>
>>>>> p.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25/11/2010 8:18 AM, Robert Zeigler wrote:
>>>>>> Tapestry had a forum for awhile. I think it died.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 11/244:46 AM , Paul Stanton wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long probably
>>>>>>> prefer ml, that's not the point!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to configure their
>>>>>>> inbox for ml and give up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't going to
>>>>>>> happen!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute to most
>>>>>>> tapestry questions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>>>>>>>> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to search
>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>>>>>>>>> how about adding a forum?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of
>>>>>>>>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and therefore
>>>>>>>>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>>>>>>>>> revising
>>>>>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
>>>>>>>>>> Web Site:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>>>>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>>>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Michael Gentry <mg...@masslight.net>.
Borut beat me to it. If you use GMail to subscribe to the mailing
list and create a filter to automatically tag messages and move them
out of your inbox, then you practically end up with a personal forum
system. It works beautifully for every Apache mailing list I
subscribe to. GMail keeps it orderly and threaded, just like a forum
does. Star helpful postings, add other tags, search to your heart's
content (although you have to have been subscribed for a while for
this to be useful), don't worry about disk space (seriously, be a pack
rat and keep every message) or management, and it is in the cloud, so
you can hit the mailing list (your personal forum) anywhere. Also,
this approach doesn't fragment the community, which is important -- it
is hard enough covering the mailing list with all of the other
commitments people have.
Maybe the first FAQ entry be "Subscribe to Tapestry User with GMail"?
mrg
On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 4:54 AM, Borut Bolčina <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you register on the user mailing list with your google mail account and
> create a filter on the mailbox, then you have the ultimate power of sorting
> threads and searching the knowledge. It can not get better.
>
> When I see a forum which has a search link which takes you to another page
> where you are presented with unfamiliar and often user unfriendly web form
> and later with a result page which also often does not meet minimum quality
> requirements, then I see a forum like software as an outdated form of
> communication and collaboration.
>
> Stackoverflow is an ideal service for questions and answers, whereas mailing
> list often serves also as a discussion and propositions media.
>
> -Borut
>
> 2010/11/25 Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>
>
>> "I don't see why those questions can't be asked and answered on the mailing
>> lists. "
>>
>> you are missing the point. they probably haven't been asked on the ml
>> because the user doesn't want to register/subscribe/manage the ml. some
>> people have a general aversion to ml's.
>>
>> p.
>>
>>
>> On 25/11/2010 7:07 PM, Ulrich Stärk wrote:
>>
>>> I don't see why those questions can't be asked and answered on the mailing
>>> lists.
>>>
>>> If you want to ask or answer questions on stackoverflow, do it. If you
>>> want to create a forum that's fine too. But the only *official* help source
>>> will be the mailing lists. Everything else will just partition the
>>> community.
>>>
>>> Uli
>>>
>>> On 25.11.2010 02:12, Paul Stanton wrote:
>>>
>>>> Andreas,
>>>>
>>>> Agreed 100%.
>>>>
>>>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/tapestry
>>>> or as a feed:
>>>> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/tapestry
>>>>
>>>> Maybe the tapestry site can leverage stackoverflow as it's recommended
>>>> question/answer forum?
>>>>
>>>> To work however, this would require some of the people here to take
>>>> interest.....
>>>>
>>>> p.
>>>>
>>>> On 25/11/2010 11:41 AM, Andreas Andreou wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You're probably right on the reasons, but the thing is that it's a pain
>>>>> having
>>>>> to monitor multiple sources of user feedback - there's just never
>>>>> enought free
>>>>> time to do so.
>>>>>
>>>>> And there's also a few big risks:
>>>>> 1) Making the community appear to be unresponsive
>>>>> 2) Frustrating users who never get their questions answered
>>>>> 3) Spreading the info to multiple places is hard to update
>>>>> and easy to get obsolete
>>>>>
>>>>> So, anyway, Tapestry has the mailing list, its website/documentation and
>>>>> there's
>>>>> always StackOverflow. Perhaps it makes sense to define a strategy on how
>>>>> to take
>>>>> advantage of that last one though
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 01:36, Paul Stanton<pa...@mapshed.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> it did. it's still there but doesn't have the community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the reason it dies was twofold:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. it was very spam prone: the way it was set up did not do enough to
>>>>>> limit/kill spammers
>>>>>> 2. it did not get the tapestry community support - it was not even
>>>>>> acknowledged by the tapestry site
>>>>>>
>>>>>> that's not to say a forum wouldn't work if setup and supported by the
>>>>>> core
>>>>>> tapestry community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25/11/2010 8:18 AM, Robert Zeigler wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tapestry had a forum for awhile. I think it died.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 11/244:46 AM , Paul Stanton wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long probably
>>>>>>>> prefer ml, that's not the point!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to configure
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> inbox for ml and give up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't going
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> happen!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute to most
>>>>>>>> tapestry questions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to
>>>>>>>>> search
>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> how about adding a forum?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of
>>>>>>>>>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and
>>>>>>>>>> therefore
>>>>>>>>>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> revising
>>>>>>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
>>>>>>>>>>> Web Site:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.orgwith
>>>>>>>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>>>>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Borut Bolčina <bo...@gmail.com>.
If you register on the user mailing list with your google mail account and
create a filter on the mailbox, then you have the ultimate power of sorting
threads and searching the knowledge. It can not get better.
When I see a forum which has a search link which takes you to another page
where you are presented with unfamiliar and often user unfriendly web form
and later with a result page which also often does not meet minimum quality
requirements, then I see a forum like software as an outdated form of
communication and collaboration.
Stackoverflow is an ideal service for questions and answers, whereas mailing
list often serves also as a discussion and propositions media.
-Borut
2010/11/25 Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>
> "I don't see why those questions can't be asked and answered on the mailing
> lists. "
>
> you are missing the point. they probably haven't been asked on the ml
> because the user doesn't want to register/subscribe/manage the ml. some
> people have a general aversion to ml's.
>
> p.
>
>
> On 25/11/2010 7:07 PM, Ulrich Stärk wrote:
>
>> I don't see why those questions can't be asked and answered on the mailing
>> lists.
>>
>> If you want to ask or answer questions on stackoverflow, do it. If you
>> want to create a forum that's fine too. But the only *official* help source
>> will be the mailing lists. Everything else will just partition the
>> community.
>>
>> Uli
>>
>> On 25.11.2010 02:12, Paul Stanton wrote:
>>
>>> Andreas,
>>>
>>> Agreed 100%.
>>>
>>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/tapestry
>>> or as a feed:
>>> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/tapestry
>>>
>>> Maybe the tapestry site can leverage stackoverflow as it's recommended
>>> question/answer forum?
>>>
>>> To work however, this would require some of the people here to take
>>> interest.....
>>>
>>> p.
>>>
>>> On 25/11/2010 11:41 AM, Andreas Andreou wrote:
>>>
>>>> You're probably right on the reasons, but the thing is that it's a pain
>>>> having
>>>> to monitor multiple sources of user feedback - there's just never
>>>> enought free
>>>> time to do so.
>>>>
>>>> And there's also a few big risks:
>>>> 1) Making the community appear to be unresponsive
>>>> 2) Frustrating users who never get their questions answered
>>>> 3) Spreading the info to multiple places is hard to update
>>>> and easy to get obsolete
>>>>
>>>> So, anyway, Tapestry has the mailing list, its website/documentation and
>>>> there's
>>>> always StackOverflow. Perhaps it makes sense to define a strategy on how
>>>> to take
>>>> advantage of that last one though
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 01:36, Paul Stanton<pa...@mapshed.com.au> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> it did. it's still there but doesn't have the community.
>>>>>
>>>>> the reason it dies was twofold:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. it was very spam prone: the way it was set up did not do enough to
>>>>> limit/kill spammers
>>>>> 2. it did not get the tapestry community support - it was not even
>>>>> acknowledged by the tapestry site
>>>>>
>>>>> that's not to say a forum wouldn't work if setup and supported by the
>>>>> core
>>>>> tapestry community.
>>>>>
>>>>> p.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25/11/2010 8:18 AM, Robert Zeigler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tapestry had a forum for awhile. I think it died.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 11/244:46 AM , Paul Stanton wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long probably
>>>>>>> prefer ml, that's not the point!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to configure
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> inbox for ml and give up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't going
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> happen!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute to most
>>>>>>> tapestry questions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to
>>>>>>>> search
>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> how about adding a forum?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of
>>>>>>>>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and
>>>>>>>>> therefore
>>>>>>>>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> revising
>>>>>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
>>>>>>>>>> Web Site:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.orgwith
>>>>>>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>>>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
Tapestry Mailing List vs Forum
Posted by "Newham, Cameron" <ca...@bl.uk>.
An interesting discussion.
However, while I do see that a forum would, perhaps, be initially more user friendly for new people to join, in the end the creation of such a thing would either divide the community into those on the ML and those on the forum, or at worst the forum would end up with new users joining and no answers because all of the old hands are on this ML. It wouldn't look good either way.
Personally I prefer the ML for Tapestry - mainly because the signal to noise ratio is high, there aren't huge numbers of posts, and the things drop into my mailbox where I can easily see them. People on here are (for the most part) friendly and very helpful. I'd rather that wasn't damaged by changing things just for the sake of change.
I'd rather that the effort going into this discussion was instead directed to providing better documentation. It's one thing I find most frustrating in the computer industry. I'm afraid I'm not as geeky as some who reside on here and elsewhere; I like instructions to have all the parts filled in, rather than instructions where large parts are missing and only the "juicy details" given because the author assumes you understand and can fill in background yourself. Some of the HOW-TOs are unfortunately like that. I have a job to do and I don't spend my weekends building my own server or bed time reading of IPv6 (anything but computers! You know what I mean) so better documentation (along the lines of the new Tutorial and docs) is better for me, better for my employer, and better for those coming to Tapestry for the first time.
Paul, if the user base increased to such an extent that there were scores of emails per day then I think we should look again at a forum. Until then I think it's not worth exploring.
c.
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Stanton [mailto:paul@mapshed.com.au]
Sent: 25 November 2010 09:20
To: Tapestry users
Subject: Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
"I don't see why those questions can't be asked and answered on the
mailing lists. "
you are missing the point. they probably haven't been asked on the ml
because the user doesn't want to register/subscribe/manage the ml. some
people have a general aversion to ml's.
p.
On 25/11/2010 7:07 PM, Ulrich Stärk wrote:
> I don't see why those questions can't be asked and answered on the
> mailing lists.
>
> If you want to ask or answer questions on stackoverflow, do it. If you
> want to create a forum that's fine too. But the only *official* help
> source will be the mailing lists. Everything else will just partition
> the community.
>
> Uli
>
> On 25.11.2010 02:12, Paul Stanton wrote:
>> Andreas,
>>
>> Agreed 100%.
>>
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/tapestry
>> or as a feed:
>> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/tapestry
>>
>> Maybe the tapestry site can leverage stackoverflow as it's
>> recommended question/answer forum?
>>
>> To work however, this would require some of the people here to take
>> interest.....
>>
>> p.
>>
>> On 25/11/2010 11:41 AM, Andreas Andreou wrote:
>>> You're probably right on the reasons, but the thing is that it's a
>>> pain having
>>> to monitor multiple sources of user feedback - there's just never
>>> enought free
>>> time to do so.
>>>
>>> And there's also a few big risks:
>>> 1) Making the community appear to be unresponsive
>>> 2) Frustrating users who never get their questions answered
>>> 3) Spreading the info to multiple places is hard to update
>>> and easy to get obsolete
>>>
>>> So, anyway, Tapestry has the mailing list, its website/documentation
>>> and there's
>>> always StackOverflow. Perhaps it makes sense to define a strategy on
>>> how to take
>>> advantage of that last one though
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 01:36, Paul Stanton<pa...@mapshed.com.au> wrote:
>>>> it did. it's still there but doesn't have the community.
>>>>
>>>> the reason it dies was twofold:
>>>>
>>>> 1. it was very spam prone: the way it was set up did not do enough to
>>>> limit/kill spammers
>>>> 2. it did not get the tapestry community support - it was not even
>>>> acknowledged by the tapestry site
>>>>
>>>> that's not to say a forum wouldn't work if setup and supported by
>>>> the core
>>>> tapestry community.
>>>>
>>>> p.
>>>>
>>>> On 25/11/2010 8:18 AM, Robert Zeigler wrote:
>>>>> Tapestry had a forum for awhile. I think it died.
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 11/244:46 AM , Paul Stanton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long probably
>>>>>> prefer ml, that's not the point!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to configure
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> inbox for ml and give up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't
>>>>>> going to
>>>>>> happen!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute to
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> tapestry questions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>>>>>>> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to
>>>>>>> search
>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>>>>>>>> how about adding a forum?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a
>>>>>>>> lot of
>>>>>>>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and
>>>>>>>> therefore
>>>>>>>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>>>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working
>>>>>>>>> hard on
>>>>>>>>> revising
>>>>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new
>>>>>>>>> Tapestry
>>>>>>>>> Web Site:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>.
"I don't see why those questions can't be asked and answered on the
mailing lists. "
you are missing the point. they probably haven't been asked on the ml
because the user doesn't want to register/subscribe/manage the ml. some
people have a general aversion to ml's.
p.
On 25/11/2010 7:07 PM, Ulrich Stärk wrote:
> I don't see why those questions can't be asked and answered on the
> mailing lists.
>
> If you want to ask or answer questions on stackoverflow, do it. If you
> want to create a forum that's fine too. But the only *official* help
> source will be the mailing lists. Everything else will just partition
> the community.
>
> Uli
>
> On 25.11.2010 02:12, Paul Stanton wrote:
>> Andreas,
>>
>> Agreed 100%.
>>
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/tapestry
>> or as a feed:
>> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/tapestry
>>
>> Maybe the tapestry site can leverage stackoverflow as it's
>> recommended question/answer forum?
>>
>> To work however, this would require some of the people here to take
>> interest.....
>>
>> p.
>>
>> On 25/11/2010 11:41 AM, Andreas Andreou wrote:
>>> You're probably right on the reasons, but the thing is that it's a
>>> pain having
>>> to monitor multiple sources of user feedback - there's just never
>>> enought free
>>> time to do so.
>>>
>>> And there's also a few big risks:
>>> 1) Making the community appear to be unresponsive
>>> 2) Frustrating users who never get their questions answered
>>> 3) Spreading the info to multiple places is hard to update
>>> and easy to get obsolete
>>>
>>> So, anyway, Tapestry has the mailing list, its website/documentation
>>> and there's
>>> always StackOverflow. Perhaps it makes sense to define a strategy on
>>> how to take
>>> advantage of that last one though
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 01:36, Paul Stanton<pa...@mapshed.com.au> wrote:
>>>> it did. it's still there but doesn't have the community.
>>>>
>>>> the reason it dies was twofold:
>>>>
>>>> 1. it was very spam prone: the way it was set up did not do enough to
>>>> limit/kill spammers
>>>> 2. it did not get the tapestry community support - it was not even
>>>> acknowledged by the tapestry site
>>>>
>>>> that's not to say a forum wouldn't work if setup and supported by
>>>> the core
>>>> tapestry community.
>>>>
>>>> p.
>>>>
>>>> On 25/11/2010 8:18 AM, Robert Zeigler wrote:
>>>>> Tapestry had a forum for awhile. I think it died.
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 11/244:46 AM , Paul Stanton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long probably
>>>>>> prefer ml, that's not the point!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to configure
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> inbox for ml and give up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't
>>>>>> going to
>>>>>> happen!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute to
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> tapestry questions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>>>>>>> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to
>>>>>>> search
>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>>>>>>>> how about adding a forum?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a
>>>>>>>> lot of
>>>>>>>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and
>>>>>>>> therefore
>>>>>>>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>>>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working
>>>>>>>>> hard on
>>>>>>>>> revising
>>>>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new
>>>>>>>>> Tapestry
>>>>>>>>> Web Site:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>.
I don't see why those questions can't be asked and answered on the mailing lists.
If you want to ask or answer questions on stackoverflow, do it. If you want to create a forum that's
fine too. But the only *official* help source will be the mailing lists. Everything else will just
partition the community.
Uli
On 25.11.2010 02:12, Paul Stanton wrote:
> Andreas,
>
> Agreed 100%.
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/tapestry
> or as a feed:
> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/tapestry
>
> Maybe the tapestry site can leverage stackoverflow as it's recommended question/answer forum?
>
> To work however, this would require some of the people here to take interest.....
>
> p.
>
> On 25/11/2010 11:41 AM, Andreas Andreou wrote:
>> You're probably right on the reasons, but the thing is that it's a pain having
>> to monitor multiple sources of user feedback - there's just never enought free
>> time to do so.
>>
>> And there's also a few big risks:
>> 1) Making the community appear to be unresponsive
>> 2) Frustrating users who never get their questions answered
>> 3) Spreading the info to multiple places is hard to update
>> and easy to get obsolete
>>
>> So, anyway, Tapestry has the mailing list, its website/documentation and there's
>> always StackOverflow. Perhaps it makes sense to define a strategy on how to take
>> advantage of that last one though
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 01:36, Paul Stanton<pa...@mapshed.com.au> wrote:
>>> it did. it's still there but doesn't have the community.
>>>
>>> the reason it dies was twofold:
>>>
>>> 1. it was very spam prone: the way it was set up did not do enough to
>>> limit/kill spammers
>>> 2. it did not get the tapestry community support - it was not even
>>> acknowledged by the tapestry site
>>>
>>> that's not to say a forum wouldn't work if setup and supported by the core
>>> tapestry community.
>>>
>>> p.
>>>
>>> On 25/11/2010 8:18 AM, Robert Zeigler wrote:
>>>> Tapestry had a forum for awhile. I think it died.
>>>>
>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 11/244:46 AM , Paul Stanton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long probably
>>>>> prefer ml, that's not the point!
>>>>>
>>>>> i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to configure their
>>>>> inbox for ml and give up.
>>>>>
>>>>> just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't going to
>>>>> happen!
>>>>>
>>>>> i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute to most
>>>>> tapestry questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> p.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>>>>>> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to search
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>>>>>>> how about adding a forum?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of
>>>>>>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and therefore
>>>>>>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>>>>>>> revising
>>>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
>>>>>>>> Web Site:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Borut Bolčina <bo...@gmail.com>.
Wow, I didn't know we could make our own stackoverflow! Just read the
http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq
But yes, this would make a lot of effort, so it is just a nice dream.
-Borut
2010/11/25 Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>
> Andreas,
>
> Agreed 100%.
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/tapestry
> or as a feed:
> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/tapestry
>
> Maybe the tapestry site can leverage stackoverflow as it's recommended
> question/answer forum?
>
> To work however, this would require some of the people here to take
> interest.....
>
> p.
>
>
> On 25/11/2010 11:41 AM, Andreas Andreou wrote:
>
>> You're probably right on the reasons, but the thing is that it's a pain
>> having
>> to monitor multiple sources of user feedback - there's just never enought
>> free
>> time to do so.
>>
>> And there's also a few big risks:
>> 1) Making the community appear to be unresponsive
>> 2) Frustrating users who never get their questions answered
>> 3) Spreading the info to multiple places is hard to update
>> and easy to get obsolete
>>
>> So, anyway, Tapestry has the mailing list, its website/documentation and
>> there's
>> always StackOverflow. Perhaps it makes sense to define a strategy on how
>> to take
>> advantage of that last one though
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 01:36, Paul Stanton<pa...@mapshed.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> it did. it's still there but doesn't have the community.
>>>
>>> the reason it dies was twofold:
>>>
>>> 1. it was very spam prone: the way it was set up did not do enough to
>>> limit/kill spammers
>>> 2. it did not get the tapestry community support - it was not even
>>> acknowledged by the tapestry site
>>>
>>> that's not to say a forum wouldn't work if setup and supported by the
>>> core
>>> tapestry community.
>>>
>>> p.
>>>
>>> On 25/11/2010 8:18 AM, Robert Zeigler wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tapestry had a forum for awhile. I think it died.
>>>>
>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 11/244:46 AM , Paul Stanton wrote:
>>>>
>>>> i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long probably
>>>>> prefer ml, that's not the point!
>>>>>
>>>>> i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to configure their
>>>>> inbox for ml and give up.
>>>>>
>>>>> just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't going to
>>>>> happen!
>>>>>
>>>>> i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute to most
>>>>> tapestry questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> p.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to search
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> how about adding a forum?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of
>>>>>>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and therefore
>>>>>>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>>>>>>> revising
>>>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
>>>>>>>> Web Site:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>.
Andreas,
Agreed 100%.
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/tapestry
or as a feed:
http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/tapestry
Maybe the tapestry site can leverage stackoverflow as it's recommended
question/answer forum?
To work however, this would require some of the people here to take
interest.....
p.
On 25/11/2010 11:41 AM, Andreas Andreou wrote:
> You're probably right on the reasons, but the thing is that it's a pain having
> to monitor multiple sources of user feedback - there's just never enought free
> time to do so.
>
> And there's also a few big risks:
> 1) Making the community appear to be unresponsive
> 2) Frustrating users who never get their questions answered
> 3) Spreading the info to multiple places is hard to update
> and easy to get obsolete
>
> So, anyway, Tapestry has the mailing list, its website/documentation and there's
> always StackOverflow. Perhaps it makes sense to define a strategy on how to take
> advantage of that last one though
>
> On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 01:36, Paul Stanton<pa...@mapshed.com.au> wrote:
>> it did. it's still there but doesn't have the community.
>>
>> the reason it dies was twofold:
>>
>> 1. it was very spam prone: the way it was set up did not do enough to
>> limit/kill spammers
>> 2. it did not get the tapestry community support - it was not even
>> acknowledged by the tapestry site
>>
>> that's not to say a forum wouldn't work if setup and supported by the core
>> tapestry community.
>>
>> p.
>>
>> On 25/11/2010 8:18 AM, Robert Zeigler wrote:
>>> Tapestry had a forum for awhile. I think it died.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 11/244:46 AM , Paul Stanton wrote:
>>>
>>>> i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long probably
>>>> prefer ml, that's not the point!
>>>>
>>>> i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to configure their
>>>> inbox for ml and give up.
>>>>
>>>> just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't going to
>>>> happen!
>>>>
>>>> i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute to most
>>>> tapestry questions.
>>>>
>>>> p.
>>>>
>>>> On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>>>>> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to search
>>>>> them.
>>>>> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>>>>>
>>>>> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>>>>>> how about adding a forum?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of
>>>>>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and therefore
>>>>>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>>>>>> revising
>>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
>>>>>>> Web Site:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Andreas Andreou <an...@di.uoa.gr>.
You're probably right on the reasons, but the thing is that it's a pain having
to monitor multiple sources of user feedback - there's just never enought free
time to do so.
And there's also a few big risks:
1) Making the community appear to be unresponsive
2) Frustrating users who never get their questions answered
3) Spreading the info to multiple places is hard to update
and easy to get obsolete
So, anyway, Tapestry has the mailing list, its website/documentation and there's
always StackOverflow. Perhaps it makes sense to define a strategy on how to take
advantage of that last one though
On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 01:36, Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au> wrote:
> it did. it's still there but doesn't have the community.
>
> the reason it dies was twofold:
>
> 1. it was very spam prone: the way it was set up did not do enough to
> limit/kill spammers
> 2. it did not get the tapestry community support - it was not even
> acknowledged by the tapestry site
>
> that's not to say a forum wouldn't work if setup and supported by the core
> tapestry community.
>
> p.
>
> On 25/11/2010 8:18 AM, Robert Zeigler wrote:
>>
>> Tapestry had a forum for awhile. I think it died.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 11/244:46 AM , Paul Stanton wrote:
>>
>>> i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long probably
>>> prefer ml, that's not the point!
>>>
>>> i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to configure their
>>> inbox for ml and give up.
>>>
>>> just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't going to
>>> happen!
>>>
>>> i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute to most
>>> tapestry questions.
>>>
>>> p.
>>>
>>> On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to search
>>>> them.
>>>> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>>>>
>>>> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>>>>>
>>>>> how about adding a forum?
>>>>>
>>>>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of
>>>>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and therefore
>>>>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>>>>
>>>>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>>>>
>>>>> p.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>>>>> revising
>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
>>>>>> Web Site:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Andreas Andreou - andyhot@apache.org - http://blog.andyhot.gr
Tapestry PMC / Tacos developer
Open Source / JEE Consulting
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Josh Canfield <jo...@gmail.com>.
> "Feel free to create a Tapestry forum. Please post the link here."
>
> of course i don't have time to set up a server!! I'm too busy trying to work
> out my own tapestry issues!
Hehe... I'd guess that everyone else here is also busy doing things
for which they get paid.
Josh
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 22:29:15 -0200, Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>
wrote:
> Thiago,
Hi, Paul!
> "Feel free to create a Tapestry forum. Please post the link here."
>
> of course i don't have time to set up a server!! I'm too busy trying to
> work out my own tapestry issues!
I was thinking about using ready=to-use forums, not setting up one.
> "What do you mean by core Tapestry community?"
>
> i mean you and everyone else here! everyone else who visits the tapestry
> main site and uses tapestry.
Then you need to convince people to also use the forum. ;) I guess most
people would stick to just one: mailing list or forum.
> and thiago, i have to say you are probably the most helpful source of
> answers on here. your help is greatly appreciated.
This list is full of helpful people and is one of the Tapestry's
advantages. :)
> now could you have a go at answering my question regarding
> ComponentResources? haha.
Which one? :D Getting the ComponentResources of a component in a service?
Sincerely, I guess there are better approaches to do what you want. By the
way, I can't recall you describing what do you want to do instead of
asking how to do it. ;) :)
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>.
Thiago,
"This is what the FAQ page in the wiki is for. "
i think it's highly unlikely that a new user is going to find and figure
out how to post a question on a FAQ wiki page. that is only going to
happen for 1 of 1000 newbie questions!
"Feel free to create a Tapestry forum. Please post the link here."
of course i don't have time to set up a server!! I'm too busy trying to
work out my own tapestry issues!
"What do you mean by core Tapestry community?"
i mean you and everyone else here! everyone else who visits the tapestry
main site and uses tapestry.
"so the MLs are here to stay"
Yes i don't doubt that. i'm not saying they are not needed. I'm just
wishing for a better question/answer mechanism for myself and people in
the same situation.
and thiago, i have to say you are probably the most helpful source of
answers on here. your help is greatly appreciated. now could you have a
go at answering my question regarding ComponentResources? haha.
p.
On 25/11/2010 11:12 AM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:36:52 -0200, Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>> 1. it was very spam prone: the wa"y it was set up did not do enough
>> to limit/kill spammers
>> 2. it did not get the tapestry community support - it was not even
>> acknowledged by the tapestry site
>> that's not to say a forum wouldn't work if setup and supported by the
>> core tapestry community.
>
> What do you mean by core Tapestry community? The committers use the
> mailing list and I think they are happy with that. I guess most active
> mailing list too.
>
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:36:52 -0200, Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>
wrote:
> 1. it was very spam prone: the way it was set up did not do enough to
> limit/kill spammers
> 2. it did not get the tapestry community support - it was not even
> acknowledged by the tapestry site
> that's not to say a forum wouldn't work if setup and supported by the
> core tapestry community.
What do you mean by core Tapestry community? The committers use the
mailing list and I think they are happy with that. I guess most active
mailing list too.
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>.
it did. it's still there but doesn't have the community.
the reason it dies was twofold:
1. it was very spam prone: the way it was set up did not do enough to
limit/kill spammers
2. it did not get the tapestry community support - it was not even
acknowledged by the tapestry site
that's not to say a forum wouldn't work if setup and supported by the
core tapestry community.
p.
On 25/11/2010 8:18 AM, Robert Zeigler wrote:
> Tapestry had a forum for awhile. I think it died.
>
> Robert
>
> On Nov 24, 2010, at 11/244:46 AM , Paul Stanton wrote:
>
>> i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long probably prefer ml, that's not the point!
>>
>> i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to configure their inbox for ml and give up.
>>
>> just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't going to happen!
>>
>> i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute to most tapestry questions.
>>
>> p.
>>
>> On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>>> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to search them.
>>> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>>>
>>> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>>>> how about adding a forum?
>>>>
>>>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of
>>>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and therefore
>>>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>>>
>>>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>>>
>>>> p.
>>>>
>>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>>>> revising
>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
>>>>> Web Site:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Robert Zeigler <ro...@scazdl.org>.
Tapestry had a forum for awhile. I think it died.
Robert
On Nov 24, 2010, at 11/244:46 AM , Paul Stanton wrote:
> i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long probably prefer ml, that's not the point!
>
> i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to configure their inbox for ml and give up.
>
> just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't going to happen!
>
> i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute to most tapestry questions.
>
> p.
>
> On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to search them.
>> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>>
>> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>>> how about adding a forum?
>>>
>>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of
>>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and therefore
>>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>>
>>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>>
>>> p.
>>>
>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>>> revising
>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
>>>> Web Site:
>>>>
>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>
>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>> [SITE]
>>>> in the subject.
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>.
Ulrich,
of course you are entitled to your opinion.
p.
On 25/11/2010 6:47 PM, Ulrich Stärk wrote:
> That's just plain wrong. The form of communication (forum vs. mailing
> list) will have no impact at all on whether questions you ask are
> answered more or less conclusively. It's how you ask your question and
> what information you provide that influences the likelihood whether
> you'll get a satisfying answer or not.
>
> On 25.11.2010 00:33, Paul Stanton wrote:
>> "They (forums) are to publish discussions on specific matters."
>>
>> Exactly! I'm often disappointed with the level of help offered here,
>> and maybe that's because the
>> mailing list is too much a "community where people try to stay
>> connected continuously" and not
>> enough a question/answer type discussion.
>>
>> I think there's a great need for a simple, searchable question/answer
>> 'area' whether it's a forum or
>> something different, where new users can ask those 'dumb' questions
>> (tapestry veterans may think
>> their dumb) where there's a good likelihood that they will be
>> answered in full instead of just
>> falling down the list.
>>
>> Especially with the design of tapestry is such that the internals are
>> not exposed to the developer
>> (ie no polymophism) which makes it more difficult for developers to
>> get a grasp on what is available
>> to them.
>>
>> I've asked a number of questions here which I feel have never had a
>> conclusive answer, i'm sure i'm
>> not the only one.
>>
>> Not to say people aren't helpful, that's that what i think the
>> problem is. I think it's the
>> mechanism (mailing list) more than anything else.
>>
>> p.
>>
>> On 25/11/2010 3:33 AM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>>> Stack Overflow must be a forum because it is a way to collect many
>>> professionals of various competences. But forums are not for community
>>> where people try to stay connected continuously.
>>> They are to publish discussions on specific matters.
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 11:46, Paul Stanton<pa...@mapshed.com.au>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long
>>>>> probably prefer
>>>>> ml, that's not the point!
>>>>>
>>>>> i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to configure
>>>>> their
>>>>> inbox for ml and give up.
>>>>>
>>>>> just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't
>>>>> going to
>>>>> happen!
>>>>>
>>>>> i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute to most
>>>>> tapestry questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> p.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to
>>>>>> search
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> how about adding a forum?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of
>>>>>>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and
>>>>>>> therefore
>>>>>>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working
>>>>>>>> hard on
>>>>>>>> revising
>>>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
>>>>>>>> Web Site:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>.
That's just plain wrong. The form of communication (forum vs. mailing list) will have no impact at
all on whether questions you ask are answered more or less conclusively. It's how you ask your
question and what information you provide that influences the likelihood whether you'll get a
satisfying answer or not.
On 25.11.2010 00:33, Paul Stanton wrote:
> "They (forums) are to publish discussions on specific matters."
>
> Exactly! I'm often disappointed with the level of help offered here, and maybe that's because the
> mailing list is too much a "community where people try to stay connected continuously" and not
> enough a question/answer type discussion.
>
> I think there's a great need for a simple, searchable question/answer 'area' whether it's a forum or
> something different, where new users can ask those 'dumb' questions (tapestry veterans may think
> their dumb) where there's a good likelihood that they will be answered in full instead of just
> falling down the list.
>
> Especially with the design of tapestry is such that the internals are not exposed to the developer
> (ie no polymophism) which makes it more difficult for developers to get a grasp on what is available
> to them.
>
> I've asked a number of questions here which I feel have never had a conclusive answer, i'm sure i'm
> not the only one.
>
> Not to say people aren't helpful, that's that what i think the problem is. I think it's the
> mechanism (mailing list) more than anything else.
>
> p.
>
> On 25/11/2010 3:33 AM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>> Stack Overflow must be a forum because it is a way to collect many
>> professionals of various competences. But forums are not for community
>> where people try to stay connected continuously.
>> They are to publish discussions on specific matters.
>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 11:46, Paul Stanton<pa...@mapshed.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long probably prefer
>>>> ml, that's not the point!
>>>>
>>>> i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to configure their
>>>> inbox for ml and give up.
>>>>
>>>> just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't going to
>>>> happen!
>>>>
>>>> i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute to most
>>>> tapestry questions.
>>>>
>>>> p.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to search
>>>>> them.
>>>>> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>>>>>
>>>>> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>>>>>
>>>>>> how about adding a forum?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of
>>>>>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and therefore
>>>>>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> p.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>>>>>> revising
>>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
>>>>>>> Web Site:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:33:17 -0200, Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>
wrote:
> I think there's a great need for a simple, searchable question/answer
> 'area' whether it's a forum or something different, where new users can
> ask those 'dumb' questions (tapestry veterans may think their dumb)
> where there's a good likelihood that they will be answered in full
> instead of just falling down the list.
This is what the FAQ page in the wiki is for.
> Not to say people aren't helpful, that's that what i think the problem
> is. I think it's the mechanism (mailing list) more than anything else.
The Apache Foundation has a tradition of using mailing lists instead of
forums, so the MLs are here to stay. Even project decisions must be made
in mailing lists. Nabble provides a forum-like archive to the mailing
lists.
Feel free to create a Tapestry forum. Please post the link here. :)
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Ivano Luberti <lu...@archicoop.it>.
I'm sorry but I strongly disagree: I have never seen a support service
as efficient as this mailing list.
And for free.
Il 25/11/2010 0.33, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
> "They (forums) are to publish discussions on specific matters."
>
> Exactly! I'm often disappointed with the level of help offered here,
> and maybe that's because the mailing list is too much a "community
> where people try to stay connected continuously" and not enough a
> question/answer type discussion.
>
--
==================================================
dott. Ivano Mario Luberti
Archimede Informatica societa' cooperativa a r. l.
Sede Operativa
Via Gereschi 36 - 56126- Pisa
tel.: +39-050- 580959
tel/fax: +39-050-9711344
web: www.archicoop.it
==================================================
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>.
"They (forums) are to publish discussions on specific matters."
Exactly! I'm often disappointed with the level of help offered here, and
maybe that's because the mailing list is too much a "community where
people try to stay connected continuously" and not enough a
question/answer type discussion.
I think there's a great need for a simple, searchable question/answer
'area' whether it's a forum or something different, where new users can
ask those 'dumb' questions (tapestry veterans may think their dumb)
where there's a good likelihood that they will be answered in full
instead of just falling down the list.
Especially with the design of tapestry is such that the internals are
not exposed to the developer (ie no polymophism) which makes it more
difficult for developers to get a grasp on what is available to them.
I've asked a number of questions here which I feel have never had a
conclusive answer, i'm sure i'm not the only one.
Not to say people aren't helpful, that's that what i think the problem
is. I think it's the mechanism (mailing list) more than anything else.
p.
On 25/11/2010 3:33 AM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
> Stack Overflow must be a forum because it is a way to collect many
> professionals of various competences. But forums are not for community
> where people try to stay connected continuously.
> They are to publish discussions on specific matters.
>
>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 11:46, Paul Stanton<pa...@mapshed.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long probably prefer
>>> ml, that's not the point!
>>>
>>> i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to configure their
>>> inbox for ml and give up.
>>>
>>> just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't going to
>>> happen!
>>>
>>> i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute to most
>>> tapestry questions.
>>>
>>> p.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>>>
>>>> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to search
>>>> them.
>>>> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>>>>
>>>> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>>>>
>>>>> how about adding a forum?
>>>>>
>>>>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of
>>>>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and therefore
>>>>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>>>>
>>>>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>>>>
>>>>> p.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>>>>> revising
>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
>>>>>> Web Site:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Ivano Luberti <lu...@archicoop.it>.
Stack Overflow must be a forum because it is a way to collect many
professionals of various competences. But forums are not for community
where people try to stay connected continuously.
They are to publish discussions on specific matters.
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 11:46, Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au> wrote:
>
>> i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long probably prefer
>> ml, that's not the point!
>>
>> i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to configure their
>> inbox for ml and give up.
>>
>> just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't going to
>> happen!
>>
>> i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute to most
>> tapestry questions.
>>
>> p.
>>
>>
>> On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>>
>>> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to search
>>> them.
>>> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>>>
>>> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>>>
>>>> how about adding a forum?
>>>>
>>>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of
>>>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and therefore
>>>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>>>
>>>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>>>
>>>> p.
>>>>
>>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>>>> revising
>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
>>>>> Web Site:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>>> [SITE]
>>>>> in the subject.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
--
==================================================
dott. Ivano Mario Luberti
Archimede Informatica societa' cooperativa a r. l.
Sede Operativa
Via Gereschi 36 - 56126- Pisa
tel.: +39-050- 580959
tel/fax: +39-050-9711344
web: www.archicoop.it
==================================================
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Sigbjørn Tvedt <si...@gmail.com>.
I have to agree with you Paul Stanton.
A forum instead of the users list would probably give tapestry a better
reception from new users that do not like or do not know how to use a
mailing list.
The main problems with the mailing list (in my opinion) are that:
*If a new user wants to know what is happening in the tapesty project, (s)he
has to locate the mailing list archives (and I can only see the users list
mentioned on the bottom of the getting started page. What about the dev
lists?).
*If (s)he wants to as a question or get updates, mailing list are even
worse. Most users will know how to register on a forum, but registering for
a mailing list? This is something most people haven't done in several years
(or it will be a new experience for people). If the user manages to register
and still wants to as a question to the tapestry-user list, (s)he will have
to locate the users@tapestry.apache.org address and send a mail to this.
My opinion is that there should be a forum instead of the "users" list while
the access to the dev list should be described in detail on this forum.
Since I guess we will continue using the mailing lists, maybe someone with
write access could create a "Get help" page describing how to use the
mailing lists.
This page should at least include:
*Browsing the archives
*Subscribing to a list
*Posting to a list
*Unsubscribing to a list (important)
Sigbjørn Tvedt
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 11:46, Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au> wrote:
> i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long probably prefer
> ml, that's not the point!
>
> i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to configure their
> inbox for ml and give up.
>
> just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't going to
> happen!
>
> i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute to most
> tapestry questions.
>
> p.
>
>
> On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
>
>> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to search
>> them.
>> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>>
>> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>>
>>> how about adding a forum?
>>>
>>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of
>>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and therefore
>>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>>
>>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>>
>>> p.
>>>
>>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>>
>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>>> revising
>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
>>>> Web Site:
>>>>
>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>>
>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>>> [SITE]
>>>> in the subject.
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>.
i know most of you guys, who have been using ml for so long probably
prefer ml, that's not the point!
i guarantee there's a number of users who don't want to configure their
inbox for ml and give up.
just a thought, if no one can see the benefit i guess it isn't going to
happen!
i use stackoverflow a lot and attempt to answer or contribute to most
tapestry questions.
p.
On 24/11/2010 8:35 PM, Ivano Luberti wrote:
> I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to search them.
> I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
>
> Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
>> how about adding a forum?
>>
>> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of
>> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and therefore
>> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>>
>> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>>
>> p.
>>
>> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>>> revising
>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
>>> Web Site:
>>>
>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>>
>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>>> [SITE]
>>> in the subject.
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Ivano Luberti <lu...@archicoop.it>.
I prefer ml to forums and in nay case ML web archives allow to search them.
I cannot see any other advantage of a forum over a ml.
Il 24/11/2010 4.56, Paul Stanton ha scritto:
> how about adding a forum?
>
> personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of
> people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and therefore
> don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
>
> if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
>
> p.
>
> On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on
>> revising
>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry
>> Web Site:
>>
>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>
>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with
>> [SITE]
>> in the subject.
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
==================================================
dott. Ivano Mario Luberti
Archimede Informatica societa' cooperativa a r. l.
Sede Operativa
Via Gereschi 36 - 56126- Pisa
tel.: +39-050- 580959
tel/fax: +39-050-9711344
web: www.archicoop.it
==================================================
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Re: Tapestry Web Site Updated
Posted by Paul Stanton <pa...@mapshed.com.au>.
how about adding a forum?
personally i prefer forums to mailing lists, and i believe a lot of
people don't participate in this 'user-group' community and therefore
don't get help and therefore don't like tapestry...
if you want to attract more users i recommend this.
p.
On 20/11/2010 8:15 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working hard on revising
> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new Tapestry Web Site:
>
> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>
> Feedback is encouraged; just post to users@tapestry.apache.org with [SITE]
> in the subject.
>
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