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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Sébastien Brisard <se...@m4x.org> on 2012/08/08 08:36:13 UTC
[all] NSWC and Apache license
Hello,
I'm currently working on MATH-738, and am considering porting part of
the FORTRAN "NSWC Library of Mathematics Subroutines" [1] (Naval
Surface Warfare Center).
The website states
"This software is made available, without cost, to the general
scientific community. The 1993 edition is an update of the 1990
edition."
Does that mean that porting it into Commons-Math is possible
(license-wise?). I would think it does...
Thanks for your advice!
Sébastien
[1] http://www.ualberta.ca/CNS/RESEARCH/Software/NumericalNSWC/site.html
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Re: [all] NSWC and Apache license
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
INAL, but I am a recovering Fortran programmer.
I found the same repository under:
http://ftp.twaren.net/FreeBSD/ports/local-distfiles/bf/nswc/Intro
I think that these routines are public domain and there is no copyright on the manual.
Really cool.
Regards,
Dave
On Aug 7, 2012, at 11:36 PM, Sébastien Brisard wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm currently working on MATH-738, and am considering porting part of
> the FORTRAN "NSWC Library of Mathematics Subroutines" [1] (Naval
> Surface Warfare Center).
> The website states
>
> "This software is made available, without cost, to the general
> scientific community. The 1993 edition is an update of the 1990
> edition."
>
> Does that mean that porting it into Commons-Math is possible
> (license-wise?). I would think it does...
>
> Thanks for your advice!
>
> Sébastien
>
> [1] http://www.ualberta.ca/CNS/RESEARCH/Software/NumericalNSWC/site.html
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
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Re: [all] NSWC and Apache license
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
INAL, but I am a recovering Fortran programmer.
I found the same repository under:
http://ftp.twaren.net/FreeBSD/ports/local-distfiles/bf/nswc/Intro
I think that these routines are public domain and there is no copyright on the manual.
Really cool.
Regards,
Dave
On Aug 7, 2012, at 11:36 PM, Sébastien Brisard wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm currently working on MATH-738, and am considering porting part of
> the FORTRAN "NSWC Library of Mathematics Subroutines" [1] (Naval
> Surface Warfare Center).
> The website states
>
> "This software is made available, without cost, to the general
> scientific community. The 1993 edition is an update of the 1990
> edition."
>
> Does that mean that porting it into Commons-Math is possible
> (license-wise?). I would think it does...
>
> Thanks for your advice!
>
> Sébastien
>
> [1] http://www.ualberta.ca/CNS/RESEARCH/Software/NumericalNSWC/site.html
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
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RE: [all] NSWC and Apache license
Posted by Jason Pyeron <jp...@pdinc.us>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jcarman@carmanconsulting.com
> [mailto:jcarman@carmanconsulting.com] On Behalf Of James Carman
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 14:54
> To: Commons Developers List
> Subject: Re: [all] NSWC and Apache license
>
> Do we have any contact with the maintainers/creators of this stuff?
> If so, we may be able to ask for them to grant it to the ASF?
Yes, I work there (different location). Investigating that presently.
>
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Luc Maisonobe
> <Lu...@free.fr> wrote:
> > Le 08/08/2012 17:58, Christian Grobmeier a écrit :
> >> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Sébastien Brisard
> >> <se...@m4x.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>>>> Does that mean that porting it into Commons-Math is possible
> >>>>> (license-wise?). I would think it does
> >>>>
> >>>> That seems explicitly restrictive to me. e.g. If I don't
> claim to be in the general scientific community, the
> software has not been made available to me.
> >>>>
> >>> I agree with you. However, "scientific community" does seem a bit
> >>> vague to me. Arguably, anyone using Commons-*MATH* could claim to
> >>> belong to the scientific community...
> >
> > I would strongly argue against too simplistic interpretation.
> > For this kind of question, you should ask to the dedicated list at
> > apache. Please see <http://www.apache.org/legal/> and
> >
> <http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html#foundation-legal>.
> >
> > I guess they will say "no, you cannot use this stuff".
> >
> >>
> >> If somebody writes a webbased SPSS or a company like creates
> >> statistics on the SO usage with Math? Surely this is
> commercial use
> >> and not really science?
> >>
> >> Anyway the AL2.0 does not have restrictions who can use it
> or not; my
> >> guess is it is not directly compatible.
> >
> > This is also my guess.
> >
> > Luc
> >
> >>
> >> But you really should ask legal@ in this case. I have not
> seen this
> >> license listed here:
> >> http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html
> >>
> >> But they might be able to help you anyway.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> Christian
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Sébastien
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Re: [all] NSWC and Apache license
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
Do we have any contact with the maintainers/creators of this stuff?
If so, we may be able to ask for them to grant it to the ASF?
On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Luc Maisonobe <Lu...@free.fr> wrote:
> Le 08/08/2012 17:58, Christian Grobmeier a écrit :
>> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Sébastien Brisard
>> <se...@m4x.org> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Does that mean that porting it into Commons-Math is possible
>>>>> (license-wise?). I would think it does…
>>>>
>>>> That seems explicitly restrictive to me. e.g. If I don't claim to be in the general scientific community, the software has not been made available to me.
>>>>
>>> I agree with you. However, "scientific community" does seem a bit
>>> vague to me. Arguably, anyone using Commons-*MATH* could claim to
>>> belong to the scientific community...
>
> I would strongly argue against too simplistic interpretation.
> For this kind of question, you should ask to the dedicated list at
> apache. Please see <http://www.apache.org/legal/> and
> <http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html#foundation-legal>.
>
> I guess they will say "no, you cannot use this stuff".
>
>>
>> If somebody writes a webbased SPSS or a company like creates
>> statistics on the SO usage with Math? Surely this is commercial use
>> and not really science?
>>
>> Anyway the AL2.0 does not have restrictions who can use it or not; my
>> guess is it is not directly compatible.
>
> This is also my guess.
>
> Luc
>
>>
>> But you really should ask legal@ in this case. I have not seen this
>> license listed here:
>> http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html
>>
>> But they might be able to help you anyway.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Christian
>>
>>>
>>> Sébastien
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [all] NSWC and Apache license
Posted by Sébastien Brisard <se...@m4x.org>.
Hi,
2012/8/8 Luc Maisonobe <Lu...@free.fr>:
> Le 08/08/2012 17:58, Christian Grobmeier a écrit :
>> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Sébastien Brisard
>> <se...@m4x.org> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Does that mean that porting it into Commons-Math is possible
>>>>> (license-wise?). I would think it does…
>>>>
>>>> That seems explicitly restrictive to me. e.g. If I don't claim to be in the general scientific community, the software has not been made available to me.
>>>>
>>> I agree with you. However, "scientific community" does seem a bit
>>> vague to me. Arguably, anyone using Commons-*MATH* could claim to
>>> belong to the scientific community...
>
> I would strongly argue against too simplistic interpretation.
>
Of course I'm not happy with this simplistic interpretation.
Otherwise, I would not have asked in the first place.
My point is that the statement on the web-page is very vague, and
scientific community does not mean a lot to me, although I suspect
that it excludes any commercial use. The thing is *that* is not
clearly stated, and you could develop a commercial scientific
software, and belong to the scientific community (in my opinion).
Again, this point is for the sake of argument, I *know* this is
far-fetched.
Another weird thing I've just realized. The code was developed by the
US navy if I understand correctly, but is now hosted on a canadian
page, so we need clarification. Maybe Jason will be able to talk to
someone.
>
> For this kind of question, you should ask to the dedicated list at
> apache. Please see <http://www.apache.org/legal/> and
> <http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html#foundation-legal>.
>
> I guess they will say "no, you cannot use this stuff".
>
My initial message was posted to both dev@ and legal-discuss@. Let's
see what their answer is. I understand I should not be too optimistic.
Thanks for all these answers,
Sébastien
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Re: [all] NSWC and Apache license
Posted by Luc Maisonobe <Lu...@free.fr>.
Le 08/08/2012 17:58, Christian Grobmeier a écrit :
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Sébastien Brisard
> <se...@m4x.org> wrote:
>
>>>> Does that mean that porting it into Commons-Math is possible
>>>> (license-wise?). I would think it does…
>>>
>>> That seems explicitly restrictive to me. e.g. If I don't claim to be in the general scientific community, the software has not been made available to me.
>>>
>> I agree with you. However, "scientific community" does seem a bit
>> vague to me. Arguably, anyone using Commons-*MATH* could claim to
>> belong to the scientific community...
I would strongly argue against too simplistic interpretation.
For this kind of question, you should ask to the dedicated list at
apache. Please see <http://www.apache.org/legal/> and
<http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html#foundation-legal>.
I guess they will say "no, you cannot use this stuff".
>
> If somebody writes a webbased SPSS or a company like creates
> statistics on the SO usage with Math? Surely this is commercial use
> and not really science?
>
> Anyway the AL2.0 does not have restrictions who can use it or not; my
> guess is it is not directly compatible.
This is also my guess.
Luc
>
> But you really should ask legal@ in this case. I have not seen this
> license listed here:
> http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html
>
> But they might be able to help you anyway.
>
> Cheers
> Christian
>
>>
>> Sébastien
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [all] NSWC and Apache license
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Sébastien Brisard
<se...@m4x.org> wrote:
>>> Does that mean that porting it into Commons-Math is possible
>>> (license-wise?). I would think it does…
>>
>> That seems explicitly restrictive to me. e.g. If I don't claim to be in the general scientific community, the software has not been made available to me.
>>
> I agree with you. However, "scientific community" does seem a bit
> vague to me. Arguably, anyone using Commons-*MATH* could claim to
> belong to the scientific community...
If somebody writes a webbased SPSS or a company like creates
statistics on the SO usage with Math? Surely this is commercial use
and not really science?
Anyway the AL2.0 does not have restrictions who can use it or not; my
guess is it is not directly compatible.
But you really should ask legal@ in this case. I have not seen this
license listed here:
http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html
But they might be able to help you anyway.
Cheers
Christian
>
> Sébastien
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
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https://www.timeandbill.de
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Re: [all] NSWC and Apache license
Posted by Sébastien Brisard <se...@m4x.org>.
Hi Kevan,
thanks for your answer.
2012/8/8 Kevan Miller <ke...@gmail.com>:
>
> On Aug 8, 2012, at 2:36 AM, Sébastien Brisard wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> I'm currently working on MATH-738, and am considering porting part of
>> the FORTRAN "NSWC Library of Mathematics Subroutines" [1] (Naval
>> Surface Warfare Center).
>> The website states
>>
>> "This software is made available, without cost, to the general
>> scientific community. The 1993 edition is an update of the 1990
>> edition."
>>
>> Does that mean that porting it into Commons-Math is possible
>> (license-wise?). I would think it does…
>
> That seems explicitly restrictive to me. e.g. If I don't claim to be in the general scientific community, the software has not been made available to me.
>
> --kevan
>
I agree with you. However, "scientific community" does seem a bit
vague to me. Arguably, anyone using Commons-*MATH* could claim to
belong to the scientific community...
Sébastien
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Re: [all] NSWC and Apache license
Posted by Sébastien Brisard <se...@m4x.org>.
Hi Jason,
>
> I can make some enquiries to see if it can be changed. Do you know which NSWC
> released it, Dahlgren, Carderock and which code 90,50, etc?
>
Thanks, that would help a lot !
It's Dahlgren [1], FORTRAN 77.
If the answer you get is a straightforward yes, that's fine. If it is
a "no", maybe we could wait before we ask that it be changed. Indeed,
I'm only playing around with this library at the moment, I need to
make sure the accuracy it offers meets my requirements.
Best regards,
Sébastien
[1] http://www.dtic.mil/docs/citations/ADA476840
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RE: [all] NSWC and Apache license
Posted by Jason Pyeron <jp...@pdinc.us>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevan Miller [mailto:kevan.miller@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 11:14
> To: Commons Developers List
> Subject: Re: [all] NSWC and Apache license
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2012, at 2:36 AM, Sébastien Brisard wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > I'm currently working on MATH-738, and am considering
> porting part of
> > the FORTRAN "NSWC Library of Mathematics Subroutines" [1] (Naval
> > Surface Warfare Center).
> > The website states
> >
> > "This software is made available, without cost, to the general
> > scientific community. The 1993 edition is an update of the 1990
> > edition."
> >
> > Does that mean that porting it into Commons-Math is possible
> > (license-wise?). I would think it does
>
> That seems explicitly restrictive to me. e.g. If I don't
> claim to be in the general scientific community, the software
> has not been made available to me.
>
I can make some enquiries to see if it can be changed. Do you know which NSWC
released it, Dahlgren, Carderock and which code 90,50, etc?
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
- -
- Jason Pyeron PD Inc. http://www.pdinc.us -
- Principal Consultant 10 West 24th Street #100 -
- +1 (443) 269-1555 x333 Baltimore, Maryland 21218 -
- -
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
This message is copyright PD Inc, subject to license 20080407P00.
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Re: [all] NSWC and Apache license
Posted by Kevan Miller <ke...@gmail.com>.
On Aug 8, 2012, at 2:36 AM, Sébastien Brisard wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm currently working on MATH-738, and am considering porting part of
> the FORTRAN "NSWC Library of Mathematics Subroutines" [1] (Naval
> Surface Warfare Center).
> The website states
>
> "This software is made available, without cost, to the general
> scientific community. The 1993 edition is an update of the 1990
> edition."
>
> Does that mean that porting it into Commons-Math is possible
> (license-wise?). I would think it does…
That seems explicitly restrictive to me. e.g. If I don't claim to be in the general scientific community, the software has not been made available to me.
--kevan
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