RE: Samples as tools for learning and development (Was: Giving up ! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing)

[Argyn Kuketayev <Ar...@plateau.com>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
> Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 9:11 AM
> To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Samples as tools for learning and development 
> (Was: Giving
> up ! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing)
> >However the docs are improving, and the message of this 
> topic has been
> >gotten, at least by few developers. Others are still in 
> denial mode, but
> >it's Ok. 
> >  
> >
> No, the bulk of the message I tried to deliver is:  everyone 
> is aware of 
> it, people are working on it, if
> it truely bothers you, pay for your opensource software and be one of 
> those people.

Andrew,

that message was hidden in the noise. "Trolling" references, "cathedral and
bazaar" mentions and other off-topic subjects did not help you, guys, to
deliver the message. I'm left with the mixed feeling. At the end, I see that
people recognize the issue and think of solutions, but at the same time the
first reaction ("He's giving up? Let him go.") is shocking. Also, repeating
theme from many developers is MONEY, every other message advises me to pay
MONEY. It's all off-topic. I'm amazed how experienced USENET, FIDO people
were lost in off-topic. Forget "Cathedral...", there's an issue. Solve it.
We are not Free Software Prophets, we are programmers. Let's be pragmatic.

I'm not complaining, it's just my poor English :)

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Re: Samples as tools for learning and development (Was: Giving up ! Cocoon too big, slow and confusing)

[Diana Shannon <sh...@apache.org>]

On Saturday, June 29, 2002, at 10:04  AM, Argyn Kuketayev wrote:

> Also, repeating
> theme from many developers is MONEY, every other message advises me to 
> pay
> MONEY. It's all off-topic. I'm amazed how experienced USENET, FIDO 
> people
> were lost in off-topic. Forget "Cathedral...", there's an issue. Solve 
> it.
> We are not Free Software Prophets, we are programmers. Let's be 
> pragmatic.

I didn't interpret Andrew's message that way. I think he was suggesting 
you should "pay" (figuratively speaking) by helping (in *pragmatic* 
ways) to improve the docs.

As for "Free Software Prophets," we should be careful not to generalize 
or make broad assumptions about what motivates the people who 
participate on this list. People are here for different reasons, and 
IMHO that's a Good Thing. The beauty of it all is that in spite of our 
differences we can still work together and help to produce something 
truly amazing.

-- Diana


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