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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Markus Wernig <li...@wernig.net> on 2014/09/09 15:10:01 UTC
Feature porting from LibreOffice
Hi all
Obviously there are some features in AOO that do not exist in LO and
vice versa.
I was wondering what the current possibilities are to get certain
features from LO integrated into AOO.
Background: I am currently trying to get some devs together to fix a
feature (creating digitally signed PDFs) that exists under the
"experimental" features of LO (and does not work at the moment). If that
should succeed, I would like to see that feature also in AOO.
Would this be possible at all? Or would we need to rewrite the entire
code and practically reimplement it in AOO?
Just how would we go about it once it is fixed in LO?
Thanks for any thoughts and inputs
krgds /markus
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Re: Feature porting from LibreOffice
Posted by Guy Waterval <wa...@gmail.com>.
Hi Andrea,
2014-09-09 20:58 GMT+02:00 Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>:
> Guy Waterval wrote:
>
>> Not possible for a developer to use a double licence ?
>>
>
> Sure it is possible. And it is also possible for the copyright holder to
> add the Apache 2 license to work previously released under other, usually
> more restrictive, licenses.
>
> Or maybe the double licence is only possible with a couple of two copyleft
>> licences or not copyleft but not with a mix, as a couple with a copyleft
>> licence and another non copyleft ?
>>
>
> This is totally wrong. I'm sure it's a honest question in your case, but a
> lot of people use this kind of "fake questions" to deliberately spread
> uncertainty about licenses. So, in short, these second group of questions
> is nonsense.
Uncertainty about licenses is essentially due to their number and their
compatibility . A lot of people don't understand very well why 4 liberties
have to be managed by such a number of licenses. It gives the impression
that what is given from the right hand is seriously restricted by the left
one.
But many thanks for your answer which clarify a doubt I had about the use
of a double license.
--
gw
>
>
Re: Feature porting from LibreOffice
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 10/09/2014 Markus Wernig wrote:
> OK, this sounds like good news. So if the developers of the original
> (currently broken) code and those of the (to be developed) fix agree to,
> eg. license it under both MPL and AL, we could use both code parts in
> both LO and AOO?
Even Apache License version 2 (in short: ALv2) only would be enough. I
haven't become a lawyer in the three hours that separate this mail from
my earlier one, but ALv2 is meant to be permissive enough for everybody
to reuse code and we see code reuse happening regularly.
> what are the steps to be taken once development has finished? In
> what form does that consent (the double-licensing) have to be stated and
> to whom?
Patches can be attached to Bugzilla: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/ and
this is enough, in normal cases, for us to consider it contributed. But
make the agreements before developing, not when it's finished. And ask
to have a result in the form of a patch that can actually be applied to
version X of program Y and work, since patches may need to be adapted
for different codebases.
> we would need an AOO committer
> to do that, as currently none of the devs in question have commit rights
> to AOO, from what I know. Is there a designated process for that?
This isn't really an issue. I integrated three patches from
non-committers in the last three days. If something is in Bugzilla and
it is very useful and well-documented and works, and the original author
wants to contribute it to OpenOffice, finding a solution is easy.
> Thanks again for bearing with me and for any insight ...
Don't ask too far. Please go by steps. If you want to reuse code from
another project in OpenOffice, that code has to be made available under
ALv2, or any group of licenses that includes ALv2 (there are other
possibilities, but since I'm not a lawyer I can spare you those, and
anyway they have no practical value). This is the first step.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Feature porting from LibreOffice
Posted by Markus Wernig <li...@wernig.net>.
Hi all
Sorry, one reply to two posts, but they seem so much related, it would
be hard to separate them ...
On 09/09/2014 08:58 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> Guy Waterval wrote:
>> Not possible for a developer to use a double licence ?
>
> Sure it is possible. And it is also possible for the copyright holder to
> add the Apache 2 license to work previously released under other,
> usually more restrictive, licenses.
OK, this sounds like good news. So if the developers of the original
(currently broken) code and those of the (to be developed) fix agree to,
eg. license it under both MPL and AL, we could use both code parts in
both LO and AOO?
On 09/09/2014 03:41 PM, RA Stehmann wrote:
> So: if you want to share your code with Apache OpenOffice, use the
> Apache License version 2.0.
>
> But there midht be strong problems, if your patch is a derivative work
> from code which is under copyleft licenses only.
That sounds rather straightforward. The prominent question for me now
is: how does one determine to which degree one code part is derived from
another?
In this particular case, from what I have seen, the code that needs to
be fixed originally extended the already existing code for PDF
generation. The source files in question currently have both, MPLv2 and
ALv2, in their header.
So, assuming that both, the developer of the original extension and the
developers of the new fix to it, at least double-license their work (or
put it all under AL), this should be possible, yes?
If yes, what are the steps to be taken once development has finished? In
what form does that consent (the double-licensing) have to be stated and
to whom?
And, on a more technical side, how can we make sure that the code
developed in the LO tree (the original extension and the new fix)
actually gets into the AOO tree? Afaict we would need an AOO committer
to do that, as currently none of the devs in question have commit rights
to AOO, from what I know.
Is there a designated process for that?
Thanks again for bearing with me and for any insight ...
best
/markus
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Re: Feature porting from LibreOffice
Posted by RA Stehmann <an...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de>.
On 09.09.2014 20:58, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> Guy Waterval wrote:
>> Not possible for a developer to use a double licence ?
>
> Sure it is possible. And it is also possible for the copyright holder to
> add the Apache 2 license to work previously released under other,
> usually more restrictive, licenses.
>
>> Or maybe the double licence is only possible with a couple of two
>> copyleft
>> licences or not copyleft but not with a mix, as a couple with a copyleft
>> licence and another non copyleft ?
>
> This is totally wrong. I'm sure it's a honest question in your case, but
> a lot of people use this kind of "fake questions" to deliberately spread
> uncertainty about licenses. So, in short, these second group of
> questions is nonsense.
>
>> Other question : if an original work is produced under a double licence,
>> which is the licence of a derivate work : obligatory the initial double
>> licence of the original work or one or the other of the original work ?
>
> For the meaning we give to "double", this means "take this code under
> either license A or license B, whichever you prefer". If one of the
> option is the Apache License version 2, we can take the code and improve
> it under the Apache License version 2. Then other projects that chose
> more restrictive licensing terms can obviously use our improved code.
>
> There's no need that I always state that I'm not a lawyer and this is
> not legal advice, right?
>
I'm a lawyer (Rechtsanwalt - Bundesrepublik Deutschland) and this is not
a legal advice, but Andrea is right.
Regards
Michael
Re: Feature porting from LibreOffice
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Guy Waterval wrote:
> Not possible for a developer to use a double licence ?
Sure it is possible. And it is also possible for the copyright holder to
add the Apache 2 license to work previously released under other,
usually more restrictive, licenses.
> Or maybe the double licence is only possible with a couple of two copyleft
> licences or not copyleft but not with a mix, as a couple with a copyleft
> licence and another non copyleft ?
This is totally wrong. I'm sure it's a honest question in your case, but
a lot of people use this kind of "fake questions" to deliberately spread
uncertainty about licenses. So, in short, these second group of
questions is nonsense.
> Other question : if an original work is produced under a double licence,
> which is the licence of a derivate work : obligatory the initial double
> licence of the original work or one or the other of the original work ?
For the meaning we give to "double", this means "take this code under
either license A or license B, whichever you prefer". If one of the
option is the Apache License version 2, we can take the code and improve
it under the Apache License version 2. Then other projects that chose
more restrictive licensing terms can obviously use our improved code.
There's no need that I always state that I'm not a lawyer and this is
not legal advice, right?
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Feature porting from LibreOffice
Posted by Guy Waterval <wa...@gmail.com>.
Hi Michael,
>
> That's a problem of licenses. The Apache License has no so called
> copyleft, so LibreOffice can use our code. But LibreOffice uses licences
> with a (weak) copyleft, so we can't use their code, if the developer
> doesn't use also the Apache License (v 2.0) for his or hers code.
>
> So: if you want to share your code with Apache OpenOffice, use the
> Apache License version 2.0.
Not possible for a developer to use a double licence ? ALv2.0 and the
license of Libreoffice?.
Or maybe the double licence is only possible with a couple of two copyleft
licences or not copyleft but not with a mix, as a couple with a copyleft
licence and another non copyleft ?
Other question : if an original work is produced under a double licence,
which is the licence of a derivate work : obligatory the initial double
licence of the original work or one or the other of the original work ?
Thank you
A+
--
gw
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Feature porting from LibreOffice
Posted by RA Stehmann <an...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de>.
On 09.09.2014 15:10, Markus Wernig wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Obviously there are some features in AOO that do not exist in LO and
> vice versa.
>
> I was wondering what the current possibilities are to get certain
> features from LO integrated into AOO.
>
> Background: I am currently trying to get some devs together to fix a
> feature (creating digitally signed PDFs) that exists under the
> "experimental" features of LO (and does not work at the moment). If that
> should succeed, I would like to see that feature also in AOO.
>
> Would this be possible at all? Or would we need to rewrite the entire
> code and practically reimplement it in AOO?
> Just how would we go about it once it is fixed in LO?
>
That's a problem of licenses. The Apache License has no so called
copyleft, so LibreOffice can use our code. But LibreOffice uses licences
with a (weak) copyleft, so we can't use their code, if the developer
doesn't use also the Apache License (v 2.0) for his or hers code.
So: if you want to share your code with Apache OpenOffice, use the
Apache License version 2.0.
But there midht be strong problems, if your patch is a derivative work
from code which is under copyleft licenses only.
Regards
Michael
Re: Feature porting from LibreOffice
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 6:40 AM, Markus Wernig <li...@wernig.net> wrote:
> On 09/09/2014 03:31 PM, Vladislav Stevanovic wrote:
> >> Background: I am currently trying to get some devs together to fix a
> >> feature (creating digitally signed PDFs) that exists under the
> >> "experimental" features of LO (and does not work at the moment). If that
> >> should succeed, I would like to see that feature also in AOO.
> >
> > I am not an expert but, as I can see, the best way is that this code for
> LO
> > has Apache 2 licence. After that, both projects (AOO and LO) can use this
> > code. So, if you have some influence on the people who want to create
> this
> > code, you should offer this proposal, because much larger community will
> > have benefit from that code.
>
> OK, but apart from the license question: are there technical
> restrictions? Incompatibilities?
>
> thx /markus
>
Maybe take a look at the build dependencies for each as a starting point?
AOO: https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
See also AOO system requirements:
http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/source/sys_reqs_aoo41.html
vs LO
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"Nothing will work unless you do."
-- Maya Angelou
Re: Feature porting from LibreOffice
Posted by Markus Wernig <li...@wernig.net>.
On 09/09/2014 03:31 PM, Vladislav Stevanovic wrote:
>> Background: I am currently trying to get some devs together to fix a
>> feature (creating digitally signed PDFs) that exists under the
>> "experimental" features of LO (and does not work at the moment). If that
>> should succeed, I would like to see that feature also in AOO.
>
> I am not an expert but, as I can see, the best way is that this code for LO
> has Apache 2 licence. After that, both projects (AOO and LO) can use this
> code. So, if you have some influence on the people who want to create this
> code, you should offer this proposal, because much larger community will
> have benefit from that code.
OK, but apart from the license question: are there technical
restrictions? Incompatibilities?
thx /markus
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Re: Feature porting from LibreOffice
Posted by Vladislav Stevanovic <st...@gmail.com>.
>Background: I am currently trying to get some devs together to fix a
>feature (creating digitally signed PDFs) that exists under the
>"experimental" features of LO (and does not work at the moment). If that
>should succeed, I would like to see that feature also in AOO.
I am not an expert but, as I can see, the best way is that this code for LO
has Apache 2 licence. After that, both projects (AOO and LO) can use this
code. So, if you have some influence on the people who want to create this
code, you should offer this proposal, because much larger community will
have benefit from that code.
Regards,
Wlada
2014-09-09 15:10 GMT+02:00 Markus Wernig <li...@wernig.net>:
> Hi all
>
> Obviously there are some features in AOO that do not exist in LO and
> vice versa.
>
> I was wondering what the current possibilities are to get certain
> features from LO integrated into AOO.
>
> Background: I am currently trying to get some devs together to fix a
> feature (creating digitally signed PDFs) that exists under the
> "experimental" features of LO (and does not work at the moment). If that
> should succeed, I would like to see that feature also in AOO.
>
> Would this be possible at all? Or would we need to rewrite the entire
> code and practically reimplement it in AOO?
> Just how would we go about it once it is fixed in LO?
>
> Thanks for any thoughts and inputs
>
> krgds /markus
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: Feature porting from LibreOffice
Posted by FR web forum <oo...@free.fr>.
>From LibO to AOO, I already posted this question one year ago:
http://openoffice.2283327.n4.nabble.com/LibO-code-will-be-integrated-to-AOO-td4649464.html
----- Mail original -----
De: "Markus Wernig" <li...@wernig.net>
À: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Envoyé: Mardi 9 Septembre 2014 15:10:01
Objet: Feature porting from LibreOffice
Hi all
Obviously there are some features in AOO that do not exist in LO and
vice versa.
I was wondering what the current possibilities are to get certain
features from LO integrated into AOO.
Background: I am currently trying to get some devs together to fix a
feature (creating digitally signed PDFs) that exists under the
"experimental" features of LO (and does not work at the moment). If that
should succeed, I would like to see that feature also in AOO.
Would this be possible at all? Or would we need to rewrite the entire
code and practically reimplement it in AOO?
Just how would we go about it once it is fixed in LO?
Thanks for any thoughts and inputs
krgds /markus
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