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Posted to general@xmlgraphics.apache.org by Max Berger <ma...@berger.name> on 2007/09/15 02:03:45 UTC
Moving JEuclid into Apache XMLGraphics as incubator
Dear XMLGraphics Team,
it has been my wish for a while to integrate the JEuclid (
http://jeuclid.sf.net/ ) project as a subproject of xmlgraphics. In
the last year the project was revived and now consists of three active
developers, who are willing to continue to donate their time to make
the this THE MathML Java implementation available on the net. The
recent release of a stable version has (re-)sparked the interest of a
diverse user-group, most of them developers themselves. The upcoming
release of the MathML 3 spec gives new directions for further
development.
Moving the code two Apache would serve several purposes:
First, the Apache brand is known for reliability and stability. The
Apache name stands for trust - Any project under the name Apache
received far more attention, and therefore a larger user and developer
base, resulting in a more mature and stable product.
Second, it would guarantee us legal safety. We could rely on the
Apache layer team to ensure that what we are doing is legally correct.
And third, it would allow us for even better integration with the
XMLGraphics core - There are several areas where code could be shared,
and reused rather than redeveloped. An example would be CSS support,
which is already superb in Batik, but non-existing in JEuclid. But
even simple items, such as parsing of color string do not have to be
re-invented for every subproject.
Of course, there are several issues to be solved on the way - the
first one would be if the xmlgraphics project would be willing to be
our sponsor, and thus this email. The second issue is that, should you
vote to accept this project, we'd need a Champion, who has to be part
of the PMC of the Sponsoring project (xmlgraphics).
Please feel free to comment and ask questions.
Max Berger
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Re: Moving JEuclid into Apache XMLGraphics as incubator
Posted by Vincent Hennebert <vi...@anyware-tech.com>.
Hi Max,
That would definitely be a yes from me. XSL-FO + MathML + SVG are the
building blocks leading to a high-quality publishing application, which
is my initial motivation for getting involved in the XML Graphics
project. Having JEuclid integrated as a subproject would be a good step
towards coherence and code share.
That said, incubating a project is a lot of work and we should do that
only if we are sure to be successful. Jeremias will probably be able to
give insight on this matter. And anyway it’s best to wait for his return
before launching a formal vote.
I won’t have any time to look into that before mid-October (and I will
have very few time to work on FOP in general anyway), but then I would
probably volunteer to be a mentor for the incubation. Plenty of things
to learn in perspective ;-) And if we can share work on this that would
lead to a limited workload for everyone.
Cheers,
Vincent
Max Berger a écrit :
> Dear XMLGraphics Team,
>
> it has been my wish for a while to integrate the JEuclid (
> http://jeuclid.sf.net/ ) project as a subproject of xmlgraphics. In
> the last year the project was revived and now consists of three active
> developers, who are willing to continue to donate their time to make
> the this THE MathML Java implementation available on the net. The
> recent release of a stable version has (re-)sparked the interest of a
> diverse user-group, most of them developers themselves. The upcoming
> release of the MathML 3 spec gives new directions for further
> development.
>
> Moving the code two Apache would serve several purposes:
>
> First, the Apache brand is known for reliability and stability. The
> Apache name stands for trust - Any project under the name Apache
> received far more attention, and therefore a larger user and developer
> base, resulting in a more mature and stable product.
>
> Second, it would guarantee us legal safety. We could rely on the
> Apache layer team to ensure that what we are doing is legally correct.
>
> And third, it would allow us for even better integration with the
> XMLGraphics core - There are several areas where code could be shared,
> and reused rather than redeveloped. An example would be CSS support,
> which is already superb in Batik, but non-existing in JEuclid. But
> even simple items, such as parsing of color string do not have to be
> re-invented for every subproject.
>
> Of course, there are several issues to be solved on the way - the
> first one would be if the xmlgraphics project would be willing to be
> our sponsor, and thus this email. The second issue is that, should you
> vote to accept this project, we'd need a Champion, who has to be part
> of the PMC of the Sponsoring project (xmlgraphics).
>
> Please feel free to comment and ask questions.
>
>
>
>
> Max Berger
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Re: [?? Probable Spam] Moving JEuclid into Apache XMLGraphics as
incubator
Posted by Chris Bowditch <bo...@hotmail.com>.
Max Berger wrote:
> Dear XMLGraphics Team,
>
> it has been my wish for a while to integrate the JEuclid (
> http://jeuclid.sf.net/ ) project as a subproject of xmlgraphics. In
> the last year the project was revived and now consists of three active
> developers, who are willing to continue to donate their time to make
> the this THE MathML Java implementation available on the net. The
> recent release of a stable version has (re-)sparked the interest of a
> diverse user-group, most of them developers themselves. The upcoming
> release of the MathML 3 spec gives new directions for further
> development.
>
> Moving the code two Apache would serve several purposes:
>
> First, the Apache brand is known for reliability and stability. The
> Apache name stands for trust - Any project under the name Apache
> received far more attention, and therefore a larger user and developer
> base, resulting in a more mature and stable product.
>
> Second, it would guarantee us legal safety. We could rely on the
> Apache layer team to ensure that what we are doing is legally correct.
>
> And third, it would allow us for even better integration with the
> XMLGraphics core - There are several areas where code could be shared,
> and reused rather than redeveloped. An example would be CSS support,
> which is already superb in Batik, but non-existing in JEuclid. But
> even simple items, such as parsing of color string do not have to be
> re-invented for every subproject.
>
> Of course, there are several issues to be solved on the way - the
> first one would be if the xmlgraphics project would be willing to be
> our sponsor, and thus this email. The second issue is that, should you
> vote to accept this project, we'd need a Champion, who has to be part
> of the PMC of the Sponsoring project (xmlgraphics).
>
> Please feel free to comment and ask questions.
A big +1 from me. I think JEuclid is a great fit for the Xml graphics
project and totally agree with the benefits thats you've listed.
However, as Jeremias points out in his reply in April 2006 this would be
a lot of work for someone to champion. I don't have the time or know how
to help.
Chris
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Re: Moving JEuclid into Apache XMLGraphics as incubator
Posted by The Web Maestro <th...@gmail.com>.
Max,
Thank you for your continued development and attention. On the
surface, JEuclild seems like a good fit with the Apache XML Graphics
to me (although I am not speaking for the entire Apache XML Graphics
PMC, which would require a VOTE).
As I recall , there was talk about the possibility of JEuclid getting
into Apache XML Graphics as another Sub Project a little over a year
ago. Of all Apache projects, XML Graphics seems like it would be the
best fit.
As for being the JEuclid/MathML Champion, I wouldn't feel comfortable
in that position at this time. For one, I'm not currently doing
anything that uses MathML.
I look forward to hearing and learning more about how JEuclid can work
with FOP can work together.
Clay
[1] Question about status of JEuclid and possible inclusion in FOP
http://www.nabble.com/Question-about-status-of-JEuclid-and-possible-inclusion-in-FOP-tf1531989.html#a4161892
[2] TinyURL version
http://tinyurl.com/ytehje
p.s. I believe Jeremias will be returning from a brief hiatus, so we
likely will want to post the question about inclusion for a couple of
weeks at least, until he returns.
On 9/14/07, Max Berger <ma...@berger.name> wrote:
> Dear XMLGraphics Team,
>
> it has been my wish for a while to integrate the JEuclid (
> http://jeuclid.sf.net/ ) project as a subproject of xmlgraphics. In
> the last year the project was revived and now consists of three active
> developers, who are willing to continue to donate their time to make
> the this THE MathML Java implementation available on the net. The
> recent release of a stable version has (re-)sparked the interest of a
> diverse user-group, most of them developers themselves. The upcoming
> release of the MathML 3 spec gives new directions for further
> development.
>
> Moving the code two Apache would serve several purposes:
>
> First, the Apache brand is known for reliability and stability. The
> Apache name stands for trust - Any project under the name Apache
> received far more attention, and therefore a larger user and developer
> base, resulting in a more mature and stable product.
>
> Second, it would guarantee us legal safety. We could rely on the
> Apache layer team to ensure that what we are doing is legally correct.
>
> And third, it would allow us for even better integration with the
> XMLGraphics core - There are several areas where code could be shared,
> and reused rather than redeveloped. An example would be CSS support,
> which is already superb in Batik, but non-existing in JEuclid. But
> even simple items, such as parsing of color string do not have to be
> re-invented for every subproject.
>
> Of course, there are several issues to be solved on the way - the
> first one would be if the xmlgraphics project would be willing to be
> our sponsor, and thus this email. The second issue is that, should you
> vote to accept this project, we'd need a Champion, who has to be part
> of the PMC of the Sponsoring project (xmlgraphics).
>
> Please feel free to comment and ask questions.
>
>
>
>
> Max Berger
>
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> Apache XML Graphics Project URL: http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@xmlgraphics.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@xmlgraphics.apache.org
>
>
--
Regards,
The Web Maestro
--
<th...@gmail.com> - <http://homepage.mac.com/webmaestro/>
My religion is simple. My religion is kindness.
- HH The 14th Dalai Lama of Tibet
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Re: Moving JEuclid into Apache XMLGraphics as incubator
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@jeremias-maerki.ch>.
On 01.10.2007 14:20:20 Mishkin, Ernest wrote:
> > Can I please also get some statement from Erik and/or Ernest
> > about what they think about the idea? It's just that I cannot
> > remember any discussion about Incubation at the ASF on the
> > JEuclid mailing lists and I'd like to know how much they
> > support this action. Max only said "my wish". Thanks.
> >
> > Jeremias Maerki
>
>
> Max, Erik and I held the appropriate discussion on jeuclid-devel list
> and in private.
> We are in agreement that we would like to see Jeuclid being part of
> Apache family.
Thanks for clarifying that!
> I'm particularly interested in seeing Jeuclid recognized [in mathml
> community] more than it currently is.
> Being a part of xmlgraphics will likely turn more users and developers
> alike to the project, may result in more synergies/integrations, etc.
>
>
> I've had only a preliminary CLA conversation with my employer. Is it the
> time for me to being a more formal process or should that come after
> voting?
Submitting an ICLA (plus a CCLA if necessary) is not related to the
voting process. You can do it now or later. The ICLA is simply a
precondition for creating Apache accounts and will be important for the
IP clearing process. If you send it after the acceptance vote, that's
fine.
Jeremias Maerki
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RE: Moving JEuclid into Apache XMLGraphics as incubator
Posted by "Mishkin, Ernest" <er...@mcgraw-hill.com>.
> Can I please also get some statement from Erik and/or Ernest
> about what they think about the idea? It's just that I cannot
> remember any discussion about Incubation at the ASF on the
> JEuclid mailing lists and I'd like to know how much they
> support this action. Max only said "my wish". Thanks.
>
> Jeremias Maerki
Max, Erik and I held the appropriate discussion on jeuclid-devel list
and in private.
We are in agreement that we would like to see Jeuclid being part of
Apache family.
I'm particularly interested in seeing Jeuclid recognized [in mathml
community] more than it currently is.
Being a part of xmlgraphics will likely turn more users and developers
alike to the project, may result in more synergies/integrations, etc.
I've had only a preliminary CLA conversation with my employer. Is it the
time for me to being a more formal process or should that come after
voting?
--Ernest
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Re: Moving JEuclid into Apache XMLGraphics as incubator
Posted by Max Berger <ma...@berger.name>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Dear XMLGraphics Team,
Thank you for all your positive emails. It seems to me like it would be
desired and possible to work this through.
We have looked at the incubator page and discussed this in private a
before my first email. However, before proposing to the incubator in
general I wanted to see what the "xmlgraphics" viewpoint is.
So as the result was mostly positive, we can go ahead and start the
formal proposal process, which at some point will include an official
formal vote.
I have added a directory to the JEuclid SVN:
https://jeuclid.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/jeuclid/proposal/
and also added a proposal document (docbook format), which is currently
mostly empty.
Eric, Ernest: Feel free to add any content :)
Everyone else: Feel free to comment and make suggestions.
mfG
Max Berger
e-mail: max@berger.name
- --
OpenPG ID: E81592BC Print: F489F8759D4132923EC4 BC7E072AB73AE81592BC
For information about me and my work please see http://max.berger.name
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Re: Moving JEuclid into Apache XMLGraphics as incubator
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@jeremias-maerki.ch>.
I agree that JEuclid would be a good fit as a new subproject of Apache XML
Graphics. But as I said last year, incubation takes a lot of energy from
several people. I think FOP and XML Graphics as a whole could profit
from having JEuclid nearer. Therefore, I'm willing to invest
some time in this. I guess the Champion would have to be me
unless Christian or Joerg volunteer.
The issue: I'm not using MathML at all and I cannot give this a very
high priority on my side. The biggest effort will have to come from the
JEuclid developers. And we will need some help from existing committers.
I don't know how extensive all the software grant or CLA gathering (for
IP clearance) will have to be. That's something we'll have to find out.
Please note that no releases can happen between the start of the
incubation and the completion of the IP clearance process.
I guess one thing to do before voting is to have a formal proposal as
required by Incubation Policy:
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Proposal
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/proposal.html
The proposal will help us understand if this could work and we have
enough critical mass to see this through. Can I ask the JEuclid people
to start such a proposal document over at http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/?
I'll help fill in the blanks.
Everyone involved should read about the whole Incubation process at
http://incubator.apache.org
I will, too, because I've never done this, yet.
Can I please also get some statement from Erik and/or Ernest about what
they think about the idea? It's just that I cannot remember any
discussion about Incubation at the ASF on the JEuclid mailing lists and
I'd like to know how much they support this action. Max only said "my
wish". Thanks.
Jeremias Maerki
On 15.09.2007 02:03:45 Max Berger wrote:
> Dear XMLGraphics Team,
>
> it has been my wish for a while to integrate the JEuclid (
> http://jeuclid.sf.net/ ) project as a subproject of xmlgraphics. In
> the last year the project was revived and now consists of three active
> developers, who are willing to continue to donate their time to make
> the this THE MathML Java implementation available on the net. The
> recent release of a stable version has (re-)sparked the interest of a
> diverse user-group, most of them developers themselves. The upcoming
> release of the MathML 3 spec gives new directions for further
> development.
>
> Moving the code two Apache would serve several purposes:
>
> First, the Apache brand is known for reliability and stability. The
> Apache name stands for trust - Any project under the name Apache
> received far more attention, and therefore a larger user and developer
> base, resulting in a more mature and stable product.
>
> Second, it would guarantee us legal safety. We could rely on the
> Apache layer team to ensure that what we are doing is legally correct.
>
> And third, it would allow us for even better integration with the
> XMLGraphics core - There are several areas where code could be shared,
> and reused rather than redeveloped. An example would be CSS support,
> which is already superb in Batik, but non-existing in JEuclid. But
> even simple items, such as parsing of color string do not have to be
> re-invented for every subproject.
>
> Of course, there are several issues to be solved on the way - the
> first one would be if the xmlgraphics project would be willing to be
> our sponsor, and thus this email. The second issue is that, should you
> vote to accept this project, we'd need a Champion, who has to be part
> of the PMC of the Sponsoring project (xmlgraphics).
>
> Please feel free to comment and ask questions.
>
>
>
>
> Max Berger
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Re: [?? Probable Spam] Moving JEuclid into Apache XMLGraphics as incubator
Posted by Cameron McCormack <ca...@mcc.id.au>.
Chris Bowditch:
> A big +1 from me. I think JEuclid is a great fit for the Xml graphics
> project and totally agree with the benefits thats you've listed.
> However, as Jeremias points out in his reply in April 2006 this would be
> a lot of work for someone to champion. I don't have the time or know how
> to help.
What he said.
I am excited as to the possibilities of using Batik and JEuclid in
unison in some way, but I have very limited free time at the moment to
help. (Not to mention my experience with MathML is also limited.)
--
Cameron McCormack, http://mcc.id.au/
xmpp:heycam@jabber.org ▪ ICQ 26955922 ▪ MSN cam@mcc.id.au
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