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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Berin Lautenbach <be...@wingsofhermes.org> on 2004/03/11 07:17:14 UTC
Re: Project Documentation
Noel,
Moved to general (per your suggestion :>),
>> ROFL - A chance for my favourite hobby horse! Where is the charter
>> for the Incubator? I started one some time back
>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorCharterDraft
>> But could never really get any traction or interest.
>
> A lot of discussion happened on various subjects without the web site
> getting updated. I figure that people got a bit burnt out on some of
> the discussion, and "distracted" by important things. And we did get
> some of the most important things done, such as establishing the PPMC
> concept, and seeing smoother operation of our projects. The Geronimo
> community is happier, the SpamAssassin folks are happy, Directory has
> been moving along, some projects have graduated, etc.
I agree. I have seen some incredibly positive things in the incubator
over the last six months. Interestingly, we are not always following what
is documented in the policy and standards documents - maybe this is a time
to review those documents and reflect on whether what we are doing is
better than what we planned to do or vici versa. If the former, then we
should update the documentation to reflect reality.
>
> Re-publishing the site is a bit of an obstacle, which is why I'd like
> to see us get Forrest installed on minotaur so that we can kick off
> rebuilds. But with the assumption that we can easily rebuild and
> publish the site, would you mind coordinating what needs to be done
> updating our site docs?
Yup - it might take me a few days to get to it, but I will see what I can do.
On the subject of forrest on Minotaur - I'd *love* to see this happen. I
use forrest for some web sites of my own, and have built some scripts to
do a CVS checkout hourly of a particular site's source files and then call
forrest if any source files have changed. So I'm also happy to look at
that. I have been wary in the past, because the preference from
infrastructure@ has (reasonably enough) been to have the built site in CVS
so that if minotaur crashes they can quickly get sites back online.
>
> I didn't post to general@ because I would not unilaterially move your
> comments to public view. Feel free to move your reply to general@.
Done :>.
Cheers,
Berin
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RE: Project Documentation
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> > > My thought was something along the lines of:
> > >
> > > /home/incubator/
> > > incubator/ -- cvs co incubator
> > > incubator-site/ -- cvs co incubator-site
> > > forrest/ -- our friend tool, installed
> > Do we want to go via the incubator-site CVS?
> > I think that's the way forrest-bot runs, but just want to make sure
> > that's the way we want to do it if we are building on minotaur, where
> > it's easy enough to just directly copy the results of a forrest run to
> > the incubator web directory.
> TBH, given that a bot is doing the generation and all that, and that
> the tools for building the site are going to be available in one
> place, the incentive to put the generated site in cvs is about nil.
If Sander and others in infrastructure are satisfied, I am fine with
skipping CVS. As I understand it, the eventual goal, for which hardware is
coming, is to use a separate server for building and staging the web sites.
FWIW, it looks like we'll run forrest on another server, and pull the
generated site with rsync to minotaur, rather than running forrest on
minotaur directly.
--- Noel
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Re: Project Documentation
Posted by Sander Striker <st...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 10:21, Berin Lautenbach wrote:
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>
> > My thought was something along the lines of:
> >
> > /home/incubator/
> > incubator/ -- cvs co incubator
> > incubator-site/ -- cvs co incubator-site
> > forrest/ -- our friend tool, installed
> >
> > That seem about right? See ~noel/incubator for a start. I did a cvspublic
> > checkout of incubator, but incubator-site was pulled from /home/cvs, so that
> > when we do the build, we can commit. I don't have forrest installed, yet,
> > but I think you get the idea.
>
> Do we want to go via the incubator-site CVS? We can, but it means you
> can't use anonymous CVS for the co as you need to commit the changes
> back in post a run. WHich means that to automate the check-in, you need
> to provide an authentication token (either an RSA id or password)
> directly on the file-system. It would be protected by file permissions,
> but I always get wary.
>
> I think that's the way forrest-bot runs, but just want to make sure
> that's the way we want to do it if we are building on minotaur, where
> it's easy enough to just directly copy the results of a forrest run to
> the incubator web directory.
TBH, given that a bot is doing the generation and all that, and that
the tools for building the site are going to be available in one
place, the incentive to put the generated site in cvs is about nil.
Sander
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Re: Project Documentation
Posted by Berin Lautenbach <be...@wingsofhermes.org>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> My thought was something along the lines of:
>
> /home/incubator/
> incubator/ -- cvs co incubator
> incubator-site/ -- cvs co incubator-site
> forrest/ -- our friend tool, installed
>
> That seem about right? See ~noel/incubator for a start. I did a cvspublic
> checkout of incubator, but incubator-site was pulled from /home/cvs, so that
> when we do the build, we can commit. I don't have forrest installed, yet,
> but I think you get the idea.
Do we want to go via the incubator-site CVS? We can, but it means you
can't use anonymous CVS for the co as you need to commit the changes
back in post a run. WHich means that to automate the check-in, you need
to provide an authentication token (either an RSA id or password)
directly on the file-system. It would be protected by file permissions,
but I always get wary.
I think that's the way forrest-bot runs, but just want to make sure
that's the way we want to do it if we are building on minotaur, where
it's easy enough to just directly copy the results of a forrest run to
the incubator web directory.
Cheers,
Berin
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RE: Project Documentation
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> we are not always following what is documented in the policy and
> standards documents - maybe this is a time to [review, reflect
> and update] the documentation.
Agreed. I think that if you look at our e-mail discussions, we have done
the revisions in discussion, but they have not been codified in the XML
documents. For example,
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html, hasn't been
updated to reflect the significant and beneficial switch to PPMC-based
management approach. None of the major documents reflects that decision.
There is some, but not a lot, of information on the Wiki.
> On the subject of forrest on Minotaur - I'd *love* to see this happen.
> I have been wary in the past, because the preference from
> infrastructure@ has (reasonably enough) been to have the built
> site in CVS so that if minotaur crashes they can quickly get
> sites back online.
My thought was something along the lines of:
/home/incubator/
incubator/ -- cvs co incubator
incubator-site/ -- cvs co incubator-site
forrest/ -- our friend tool, installed
That seem about right? See ~noel/incubator for a start. I did a cvspublic
checkout of incubator, but incubator-site was pulled from /home/cvs, so that
when we do the build, we can commit. I don't have forrest installed, yet,
but I think you get the idea.
--- Noel
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RE: Project Documentation
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> On the subject of forrest on Minotaur - I'd *love* to see this happen.
This would be run through infrastructure, but my current thought is to
create /home/incubator. Within ~incubator, we would have a checkout of the
site and the tools to build/publish. ~incubator/public_html could be linked
to the generated site so that it can be visually verified before publishing.
Once it has been checked, the person would check in the result to CVS, and
then do an update in /www/incubator.apache.org.
Will respond to the rest of your message after I get some sleep. :-)
--- Noel
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