You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to users@netbeans.apache.org by Ewan Slater <ew...@oracle.com> on 2021/04/22 07:32:19 UTC
Re: [External] : Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant
projects
I think a warning message that:
1. Recommends Maven or Gradle
2. Warns that Ant project creating may be removed in a future release.
My €0.02
________________________________
From: Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>
Sent: 22 April 2021 08:15
Cc: users@netbeans.apache.org <us...@netbeans.apache.org>
Subject: [External] : Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant projects
Hi all,
I don’t think we’re going to resolve this, several people in this discussion don’t understand the key point with which this thread started: should we consider downplaying the prominence of Ant by removing from NetBeans the ability to create new Ant projects (while keeping all other Ant functionality).
The previous time we had this discussion we solved it by moving Maven and Gradle projects above Ant projects, as descrbed here:
https://blogs.apache.org/netbeans/entry/restructuring-of-project-templates-in<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blogs.apache.org/netbeans/entry/restructuring-of-project-templates-in__;!!GqivPVa7Brio!LQDr-KpHS2hxY2ax5tglMFZL-rulMUbLx82cooIabKwml29tmmysmLxcouF-mrjO$>
A next step (very simple) could be to change all the desciptions of Ant projects in the New Project wizard to a warning message stating that NetBeans recommends usage of Maven or Gradle instead of Ant.
Thanks,
Gj
On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 08:30, Bilu <al...@gmail.com>> wrote:
+1 for not removing Ant support or Ant New project creation.
I personnally still use Ant for my projects
Le 22/04/2021 à 03:40, Owen Thomas a écrit :
If one wants to create an Ant project from within NetBeans, then one should be able to do that.
I've encountered both Maven and Gradle (Gradle when developing for Android on IntelliJ... another anecdote about frustration), and I can see their use when one has to manage one's code base against differing versions of third party libraries. That's great, but if one is merely doing something small, especially something that might showcase some feature of SE without bringing in functionality of third party libraries, Ant leaves the developer alone to do that. All the stuff that Gradle and Maven introduce to one's build script becomes useless boilerplate - a distraction especially when one merely wants to demonstrate or learn a feature of the SE API and perhaps even to grasp some of the necessity of the build script itself.
It's not difficult to move a project to Maven or Gradle or any other build script. Copy one's /src directory from the Ant project to the appropriate directory of the destination project (maybe set a main class) and off you go. Novice developers can easily be scared into withdrawal by considerations that are not salient to their aims, and the distractions that Maven/Gradle build scripts introduce can only encourage withdrawal into those developers who are trying to navigate this world alone. I would consider it a backward step if NB were to adopt the position of other IDEs and appropriate an air of superiority around the choice of build script. Because nothing more than an air of superiority is projected by an IDE that doesn't permit the creation of Ant projects.
I like Ant. Ant is good. Leave Ant alone.
Done.
Owen.
Re: [External] : Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant projects
Posted by John Mc <mc...@gmail.com>.
Just keep it simple:
"Apache NetBeans recommends for beginners creating new projects with modern
build/dependency frameworks like Maven or Gradle"
I wouldn't include a reference, warning of its potential removal, since
that's not been the common consensus here...
Regards
John
On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 08:32, Ewan Slater <ew...@oracle.com> wrote:
> I think a warning message that:
>
> 1. Recommends Maven or Gradle
> 2. Warns that Ant project creating may be removed in a future release.
>
> My €0.02
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>
> *Sent:* 22 April 2021 08:15
> *Cc:* users@netbeans.apache.org <us...@netbeans.apache.org>
> *Subject:* [External] : Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant
> projects
>
> Hi all,
>
> I don’t think we’re going to resolve this, several people in this
> discussion don’t understand the key point with which this thread started:
> should we consider downplaying the prominence of Ant by removing from
> NetBeans the ability to create new Ant projects (while keeping all other
> Ant functionality).
>
> The previous time we had this discussion we solved it by moving Maven and
> Gradle projects above Ant projects, as descrbed here:
>
>
> https://blogs.apache.org/netbeans/entry/restructuring-of-project-templates-in
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blogs.apache.org/netbeans/entry/restructuring-of-project-templates-in__;!!GqivPVa7Brio!LQDr-KpHS2hxY2ax5tglMFZL-rulMUbLx82cooIabKwml29tmmysmLxcouF-mrjO$>
>
> A next step (very simple) could be to change all the desciptions of Ant
> projects in the New Project wizard to a warning message stating that
> NetBeans recommends usage of Maven or Gradle instead of Ant.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 08:30, Bilu <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> +1 for not removing Ant support or Ant New project creation.
>
> I personnally still use Ant for my projects
> Le 22/04/2021 à 03:40, Owen Thomas a écrit :
>
> If one wants to create an Ant project from within NetBeans, then one
> should be able to do that.
>
> I've encountered both Maven and Gradle (Gradle when developing for Android
> on IntelliJ... another anecdote about frustration), and I can see their use
> when one has to manage one's code base against differing versions of third
> party libraries. That's great, but if one is merely doing something small,
> especially something that might showcase some feature of SE without
> bringing in functionality of third party libraries, Ant leaves the
> developer alone to do that. All the stuff that Gradle and Maven introduce
> to one's build script becomes useless boilerplate - a distraction
> especially when one merely wants to demonstrate or learn a feature of the
> SE API and perhaps even to grasp some of the necessity of the build script
> itself.
>
> It's not difficult to move a project to Maven or Gradle or any other build
> script. Copy one's /src directory from the Ant project to the appropriate
> directory of the destination project (maybe set a main class) and off you
> go. Novice developers can easily be scared into withdrawal by
> considerations that are not salient to their aims, and the distractions
> that Maven/Gradle build scripts introduce can only encourage withdrawal
> into those developers who are trying to navigate this world alone. I would
> consider it a backward step if NB were to adopt the position of other IDEs
> and appropriate an air of superiority around the choice of build script.
> Because nothing more than an air of superiority is projected by an IDE that
> doesn't permit the creation of Ant projects.
>
> I like Ant. Ant is good. Leave Ant alone.
>
> Done.
>
> Owen.
>
>