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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com> on 2019/11/22 20:47:13 UTC

Incubator cookbook: Podling Releases update

I believe that the current cookbook recommendations need an update. [1]

1. "Binding" should always refer to IPMC members' votes. This is a source of confusion for many podling communities.
2. Votes on the dev list should automatically carry over to the general list. Assuming that there is no change to the artifacts, the only reason for the dev vote not to carry over is that the voter changed their mind, which is an exception that should be documented in the general thread.
3. All votes count. All input is valuable. All votes whether on dev or incubator general should be tallied.
4. The discussion needs to include the recent DISCLAIMER-WIP changes to release protocol.

Here is my proposed update:

Podling Releases
A podling is expected to make several software releases during incubation, that progress toward being fully conformant with the ASF Release Policy http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html . A fully conformant release is expected as a condition of graduation.

Podling releases must include the word "incubating" in any release file names and must include a DISCLAIMER or DISCLAIMER-WIP https://incubator.apache.org/guides/releasemanagement.html#choice_of_disclaimers
to avoid any confusion as to the project’s status. As podlings are not yet "real" ASF projects, it is important to set expectations right.

Also, voting on podling releases happens in two phases:

First, the podling votes on the release on their dev mailing list. The main goal of this vote is for the podling community to practice and learn voting on releases. The vote is successful if there are at least three +1 votes from PPMC members, and more +1 votes from PPMC members than -1 votes from PPMC members.

Then, if that first vote is successful, an Incubator PMC vote is held on the incubator general mailing list. This is required to make the vote an Act of the Foundation, as is required for all ASF releases. When the release manager calls for a vote on the general list, the results of the dev list vote are summarized in the vote message.

All votes cast during the dev vote are carried over to the incubator general vote. In particular, IPMC Member votes including Mentor votes cast in the dev vote are binding in the general vote. And votes can be changed during the general vote; the last vote cast by any voter is considered definitive.

At the conclusion of the vote, the results are announced to the general incubator list. All votes from the dev list and general list are reported, including the names and roles of the voters. The vote is successful if there are at least three +1 votes from IPMC members, and more +1 votes from IPMC members than -1 votes from IPMC members.

Craig

Current incubator web page:
[1] Podling Releases https://incubator.apache.org/cookbook/#podling_releases
A podling is expected to make several software releases during incubation, that gradually progress towards being fully conformant to the ASF Release Policy.

In addition to following that policy, podling releases must include the word "incubating" in any release file names and a DISCLAIMER (TODO: link) to avoid any confusion as to the project’s status. As podlings are not "real" ASF projects yet, it is important to set expectations right.

Also, voting on podling releases happens in two phases:

First, the podling votes on the release on their dev mailing list, with PPMC members votes being "binding" and others being welcome to cast consultative votes. The main goal of this vote is for the podling community to practice and learn voting on releases.

Then, if that first vote is successful, an Incubator PMC vote is held on the Incubator general mailing list. This is required to make the vote an Act of the Foundation, as is required for all ASF releases.

Incubation mentors can optionally indicate that their votes in the first phase can be carried on to the Incubator PMC vote. If three mentors have voted this means the "three +1 votes" requirement is already fulfilled when that second vote starts, which can speed up things.

Craig L Russell
clr@apache.org

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Re: Incubator cookbook: Podling Releases update

Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.

Hi,

+1 from me, as long as the podling dev list IPMC votes are clearly indicated in the vote mail to the incubator general list.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Incubator cookbook: Podling Releases update

Posted by Juan Pan <pa...@apache.org>.

Hi Justin,


I totally agree with you. Presenting votes and names of none-IMPCs not only helps other IMPCs check and vote, but is respectful for everyone’s effort.


Regards,
Trista


 Juan Pan


panjuan@apache.org
Juan Pan(Trista), Apache ShardingSphere


On 11/25/2019 15:13，Justin Mclean<ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote：
Hi,

How about votes from PPMCs in dev@? As votes from PPMCs are unbinding in general@, release manages would ignore those votes from dev@, and do not present their names and votes when summarizing? Or on the contrary?

IMO it nice to know how many votes it got on the devlist that were not IPMCs, in general I’m going to have more confidence in one with more votes than less.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Incubator cookbook: Podling Releases update

Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.

Hi,

> How about votes from PPMCs in dev@? As votes from PPMCs are unbinding in general@, release manages would ignore those votes from dev@, and do not present their names and votes when summarizing? Or on the contrary?

IMO it nice to know how many votes it got on the devlist that were not IPMCs, in general I’m going to have more confidence in one with more votes than less.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re:Incubator cookbook: Podling Releases update

Posted by Juan Pan <pa...@apache.org>.

Hi Craig,

Thanks for your proposed update which would helps all the incubator release managers make release procedure smoothly. BTW,

> All votes cast during the dev vote are carried over to the incubator general vote. In particular, IPMC Member votes including Mentor votes cast in the dev vote are binding in the general vote. And votes can be changed during the general vote; the last vote cast by any voter is considered definitive.

How about votes from PPMCs in dev@? As votes from PPMCs are unbinding in general@, release manages would ignore those votes from dev@, and do not present their names and votes when summarizing? Or on the contrary?

Thank your help for a novice in advance.

Juan Pan

panjuan@apache.org
Juan Pan(Trista), Apache ShardingSphere

On 11/23/2019 04:47，Craig Russell<ap...@gmail.com> wrote：
I believe that the current cookbook recommendations need an update. [1]

Here is my proposed update:

Also, voting on podling releases happens in two phases:

Craig

Also, voting on podling releases happens in two phases:

Craig L Russell
clr@apache.org

Fwd: Incubator cookbook: Podling Releases update

Posted by Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com>.

ICYMI.

If you would like to comment, please do so on the incubator thread.

Best,
Craig


> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Incubator cookbook: Podling Releases update
> Date: November 22, 2019 at 12:47:13 PM PST
> To: Incubator <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
> 
> I believe that the current cookbook recommendations need an update. [1]
> 
> 1. "Binding" should always refer to IPMC members' votes. This is a source of confusion for many podling communities.
> 2. Votes on the dev list should automatically carry over to the general list. Assuming that there is no change to the artifacts, the only reason for the dev vote not to carry over is that the voter changed their mind, which is an exception that should be documented in the general thread.
> 3. All votes count. All input is valuable. All votes whether on dev or incubator general should be tallied.
> 4. The discussion needs to include the recent DISCLAIMER-WIP changes to release protocol.
> 
> Here is my proposed update:
> 
> Podling Releases
> A podling is expected to make several software releases during incubation, that progress toward being fully conformant with the ASF Release Policy http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html . A fully conformant release is expected as a condition of graduation. 
> 
> Podling releases must include the word "incubating" in any release file names and must include a DISCLAIMER or DISCLAIMER-WIP https://incubator.apache.org/guides/releasemanagement.html#choice_of_disclaimers
> to avoid any confusion as to the project’s status. As podlings are not yet "real" ASF projects, it is important to set expectations right.
> 
> Also, voting on podling releases happens in two phases:
> 
> First, the podling votes on the release on their dev mailing list. The main goal of this vote is for the podling community to practice and learn voting on releases. The vote is successful if there are at least three +1 votes from PPMC members, and more +1 votes from PPMC members than -1 votes from PPMC members.
> 
> Then, if that first vote is successful, an Incubator PMC vote is held on the incubator general mailing list. This is required to make the vote an Act of the Foundation, as is required for all ASF releases. When the release manager calls for a vote on the general list, the results of the dev list vote are summarized in the vote message.
> 
> All votes cast during the dev vote are carried over to the incubator general vote. In particular, IPMC Member votes including Mentor votes cast in the dev vote are binding in the general vote. And votes can be changed during the general vote; the last vote cast by any voter is considered definitive.
> 
> At the conclusion of the vote, the results are announced to the general incubator list. All votes from the dev list and general list are reported, including the names and roles of the voters. The vote is successful if there are at least three +1 votes from IPMC members, and more +1 votes from IPMC members than -1 votes from IPMC members. 
> 
> Craig
> 
> Current incubator web page:
> [1] Podling Releases https://incubator.apache.org/cookbook/#podling_releases
> A podling is expected to make several software releases during incubation, that gradually progress towards being fully conformant to the ASF Release Policy.
> 
> In addition to following that policy, podling releases must include the word "incubating" in any release file names and a DISCLAIMER (TODO: link) to avoid any confusion as to the project’s status. As podlings are not "real" ASF projects yet, it is important to set expectations right.
> 
> Also, voting on podling releases happens in two phases:
> 
> First, the podling votes on the release on their dev mailing list, with PPMC members votes being "binding" and others being welcome to cast consultative votes. The main goal of this vote is for the podling community to practice and learn voting on releases.
> 
> Then, if that first vote is successful, an Incubator PMC vote is held on the Incubator general mailing list. This is required to make the vote an Act of the Foundation, as is required for all ASF releases.
> 
> Incubation mentors can optionally indicate that their votes in the first phase can be carried on to the Incubator PMC vote. If three mentors have voted this means the "three +1 votes" requirement is already fulfilled when that second vote starts, which can speed up things.
> 
> Craig L Russell
> clr@apache.org
> 

Craig L Russell
clr@apache.org

Re: Incubator cookbook: Podling Releases update

Posted by Juan Pan <pa...@apache.org>.

Hi Bertrand,

> So I'd say "votes from the podling dev list should be carried over to the Incubator PMC vote, by explicitly mentioned them and including a link to the corresponding vote tally (from lists.apache.org) in the Incubator PMC vote message”.

From my understanding, it means release manager should append the vote tally link from dev list and explicitly mention the detail of vote result from dev ml when they call for release vote in general ml to help all the IPMCs know what has happened easily. Is it right?

Best wishes,
Trista

Juan Pan

panjuan@apache.org
Juan Pan(Trista), Apache ShardingSphere

On 11/25/2019 17:23，Bertrand Delacretaz<bd...@codeconsult.ch> wrote：
Hi,

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 9:47 PM Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com> wrote:
...2. Votes on the dev list should automatically carry over to the general list...

I disagree with making this automatic.

It's fine for whoever starts the IPMC vote to indicate that dev list
votes carry over, including a link to those vote's archived email.

I'm also fine with recommending that people do that.

But "automatic" puts the burden on IPMC members to go find those votes
(if people forget to include a link) and is not obvious from the IPMC
email archives, if it's not mentioned explicitly.

So I'd say "votes from the podling dev list should be carried over to
the Incubator PMC vote, by explicitly mentioned them and including a
link to the corresponding vote tally (from lists.apache.org) in the
Incubator PMC vote message".

...or something like that.

I also think the proposed text does not match the current concise
style of the cookbook but (as Blaise Pascal would say ;-) I don't have
time to make it shorter right now. I've put that on my list but don't
wait for me if someone wants to publish it.

-Bertrand

Re: Incubator cookbook: Podling Releases update

Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@me.com.INVALID>.

Hi,

> So I'd say "votes from the podling dev list should be carried over to
> the Incubator PMC vote, by explicitly mentioned them and including a
> link to the corresponding vote tally (from lists.apache.org) in the
> Incubator PMC vote message”.

+1 As usual Bertrand you put it more eloquently than me.

Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Incubator cookbook: Podling Releases update

Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.

Hi,

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 9:47 PM Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...2. Votes on the dev list should automatically carry over to the general list...

I disagree with making this automatic.

It's fine for whoever starts the IPMC vote to indicate that dev list
votes carry over, including a link to those vote's archived email.

I'm also fine with recommending that people do that.

But "automatic" puts the burden on IPMC members to go find those votes
(if people forget to include a link) and is not obvious from the IPMC
email archives, if it's not mentioned explicitly.

So I'd say "votes from the podling dev list should be carried over to
the Incubator PMC vote, by explicitly mentioned them and including a
link to the corresponding vote tally (from lists.apache.org) in the
Incubator PMC vote message".

...or something like that.

I also think the proposed text does not match the current concise
style of the cookbook but (as Blaise Pascal would say ;-) I don't have
time to make it shorter right now. I've put that on my list but don't
wait for me if someone wants to publish it.

-Bertrand

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Re: Incubator cookbook: Podling Releases update

Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.

Hi,

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 9:47 PM Craig Russell <ap...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...I believe that the current cookbook recommendations need an update. [1] ...

Thank you Craig and others for these suggestions, I have incorporated
them as follows:

-Added a new "Two-phase vote on Podling Releases" to keep the cookbook "modular"
-Reworked the text as per the suggestions in this thread
-Made a few minor related changes in other sections for consistency.

I think I have included all suggestions, sometimes with a slightly
different wording.

Please review, my changes are already live at
http://incubator.apache.org/cookbook/ but it's easy to change if we
need to tweak or revert, https://github.com/apache/incubator has
instructions.

Diff at https://github.com/apache/incubator/commit/5bf9c25

-Bertrand

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