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Posted to dev@ant.apache.org by Paul Cager <an...@paulcager.org> on 2006/04/20 18:39:51 UTC
Additional SourceSafe (VSS) Tasks - Any Comments?
Standard Ant contains a number of VSS tasks and I'm writing a couple
more for my own use (tasks relating to file / project properties, such
as shared versions). My questions are: should I submit these tasks for
possible inclusion in the standard Ant distribution? And if so, do you
have any advice on the best way to do that? I've read the "Task Design
Guidelines", by the way.
Having looked at the Dev mail archive, I've noticed that VSS tasks can
be a bit of a problem for committers, since they don't (as a rule) have
access to VSS to test the tasks. Any way I can help with that?
Thanks,
Paul
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Re: Additional SourceSafe (VSS) Tasks - Any Comments?
Posted by Steve Loughran <st...@apache.org>.
Kev Jackson wrote:
>
> Yes thats another problem, the tests are bound to a configuration of VSS
> +DB that will not be available to gump, so I could build a whole set of
> tests for all the functionality we currently provide, then they would be
> next to useless for someone else without first configuring a vss db in
> the exact same manner. At least with svn we actually have an svn repo
> to test against :)
>
If you create a stub vss repository with some sample files, we could
.zip it and serve it up as an archive for installation and testing. The
base size of a repo should be pretty small, a few tens of megabytes
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Re: Additional SourceSafe (VSS) Tasks - Any Comments?
Posted by Kev Jackson <ke...@it.fts-vn.com>.
Steve Loughran wrote:
> Kev Jackson wrote:
>
>> Kevin Jackson wrote:
>>
>>>> Standard Ant contains a number of VSS tasks and I'm writing a couple
>>>> more for my own use (tasks relating to file / project properties, such
>>>> as shared versions). My questions are: should I submit these tasks for
>>>> possible inclusion in the standard Ant distribution? And if so, do you
>>>> have any advice on the best way to do that? I've read the "Task
>>>> Design
>>>> Guidelines", by the way.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anybody have a problem with splitting VSS off into an antlib so that
>>> people with VSS can easily add tasks etc? I recall that there are
>>> also a couple of bugs listed (enhancements and patches) for VSS, but
>>> without anyone willing to test them, they aren't going to be worked
>>> on. I see an antlib being useful here, but would like to know what
>>> other people think.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I've knocked together an antlib for vss against 1.7 trunk.
>>
>> I still need to write the testcases (JUnit + xml files), but is there
>> any interest in this approach so that the VSS users can add commands
>> / support VSS outside of the dev cycle for Ant proper?
>>
>> We do have quite a few outstanding issues for VSS and very few (if
>> any) of the committer team have access on a regular basis to a VSS
>> install
>
>
> I used to, but then discovered how drastically it can get corrupted,
> and stopped. I dont even have a vs.net or vss client installed on a
> laptop or vmware image right now.
>
>
>>
>> Having spent the past hour or so getting VSS to acknowledge Ant
>> interacting with it (or indeed even the MS supplied command line
>> tools), I'm in favour of pushing all of this code off into an ant lib
>> which the users can manage by themselves!
>
>
> +1
>
Unfortunately this would count as a code change and would have to go
through a formal vote, I'd still like some more feedback before
proposing a vote which may be a waste of time.
>>
>> FYI, I'd be willing to put in the initial effort to deliver an antlib
>> if the rest of you thought it was worthwhile - indeed it's mostly
>> there already, and I'd be willing to incorporate additional code into
>> this antlib - *for the next two weeks while I have access to VSS*
>
>
> Tests are interesting. What could be done is a precreated vss database
> that could be used as a starting place, but to run the tests you'd
> still need a VSS client, which is actually hideously overpriced (can
> you say hundreds of dollars?). Maybe the new freebie vs.net express
> tools bundle a free vss client though...
It's actually one of those things where an open source reverse
engineered client would actually be useful, as you mention, the price
that you must pay to use VSS is outrageous. The problem I guess is that
anyone with the skills to reverese engineer the VSS client, certainly
doesn't have the inclination to bother!
>
> Now, if we have tests for VSS then maybe I could build up a vmware
> image which could be used to intermittently host test runs. I was
> thinking of building up windows 2003 and windows vista images, though
> for the latter I'm holding off till a slightly better build comes out
> than last month's; it takes so long to install Vista I'm not that
> motivated to waste the time just yet.
Yes thats another problem, the tests are bound to a configuration of VSS
+DB that will not be available to gump, so I could build a whole set of
tests for all the functionality we currently provide, then they would be
next to useless for someone else without first configuring a vss db in
the exact same manner. At least with svn we actually have an svn repo
to test against :)
Kev
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Re: Additional SourceSafe (VSS) Tasks - Any Comments?
Posted by Steve Loughran <st...@apache.org>.
Kev Jackson wrote:
> Kevin Jackson wrote:
>
>>> Standard Ant contains a number of VSS tasks and I'm writing a couple
>>> more for my own use (tasks relating to file / project properties, such
>>> as shared versions). My questions are: should I submit these tasks for
>>> possible inclusion in the standard Ant distribution? And if so, do you
>>> have any advice on the best way to do that? I've read the "Task Design
>>> Guidelines", by the way.
>>>
>>
>> Anybody have a problem with splitting VSS off into an antlib so that
>> people with VSS can easily add tasks etc? I recall that there are
>> also a couple of bugs listed (enhancements and patches) for VSS, but
>> without anyone willing to test them, they aren't going to be worked
>> on. I see an antlib being useful here, but would like to know what
>> other people think.
>>
>>
>>
> I've knocked together an antlib for vss against 1.7 trunk.
>
> I still need to write the testcases (JUnit + xml files), but is there
> any interest in this approach so that the VSS users can add commands /
> support VSS outside of the dev cycle for Ant proper?
>
> We do have quite a few outstanding issues for VSS and very few (if any)
> of the committer team have access on a regular basis to a VSS install
I used to, but then discovered how drastically it can get corrupted, and
stopped. I dont even have a vs.net or vss client installed on a laptop
or vmware image right now.
>
> Having spent the past hour or so getting VSS to acknowledge Ant
> interacting with it (or indeed even the MS supplied command line tools),
> I'm in favour of pushing all of this code off into an ant lib which the
> users can manage by themselves!
+1
>
> FYI, I'd be willing to put in the initial effort to deliver an antlib if
> the rest of you thought it was worthwhile - indeed it's mostly there
> already, and I'd be willing to incorporate additional code into this
> antlib - *for the next two weeks while I have access to VSS*
Tests are interesting. What could be done is a precreated vss database
that could be used as a starting place, but to run the tests you'd still
need a VSS client, which is actually hideously overpriced (can you say
hundreds of dollars?). Maybe the new freebie vs.net express tools
bundle a free vss client though...
Now, if we have tests for VSS then maybe I could build up a vmware image
which could be used to intermittently host test runs. I was thinking of
building up windows 2003 and windows vista images, though for the latter
I'm holding off till a slightly better build comes out than last
month's; it takes so long to install Vista I'm not that motivated to
waste the time just yet.
-steve
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Re: Additional SourceSafe (VSS) Tasks - Any Comments?
Posted by Kev Jackson <ke...@it.fts-vn.com>.
>>
>
> subclipse can be configured via:
> Preferences->Team->SVN->Configuration location:
> It can use the "default config location", whatever that may be, but I
> generally do use directory option
Thanks, I found it under Documents & Settings.
I've uploaded a compiled jar of the ant-vss antlib to
people.apache.org/~kevj as suggested by stefan. This should save you
the oh 2 seconds of compiling it to try it out :)
Kev
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Re: Additional SourceSafe (VSS) Tasks - Any Comments?
Posted by Martijn Kruithof <jm...@kruithof.xs4all.nl>.
Stefan Bodewig wrote:
>On Wed, 26 Apr 2006, Kev Jackson <ke...@it.fts-vn.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Stefan Bodewig wrote:
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>>Please read the section starting with "Committers will need" in
>>><http://www.apache.org/dev/version-control.html#https-svn>. Your
>>>checked in files all had Windows line ends, fixed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I'm probably going to have to dig around to discover how to change
>>this for subclipse
>>
>>
>
>I don't know for sure but I'd expect subclipse to honor the "normal"
>subversion config files, so adding the stuff from
><http://www.apache.org/dev/svn-eol-style.txt> to your subversion
>config file should work.
>
>
subclipse can be configured via:
Preferences->Team->SVN->Configuration location:
It can use the "default config location", whatever that may be, but I
generally do use directory option
Martijn
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Re: Additional SourceSafe (VSS) Tasks - Any Comments?
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006, Kev Jackson <ke...@it.fts-vn.com> wrote:
> Stefan Bodewig wrote:
>> Please read the section starting with "Committers will need" in
>> <http://www.apache.org/dev/version-control.html#https-svn>. Your
>> checked in files all had Windows line ends, fixed.
>>
> I'm probably going to have to dig around to discover how to change
> this for subclipse
I don't know for sure but I'd expect subclipse to honor the "normal"
subversion config files, so adding the stuff from
<http://www.apache.org/dev/svn-eol-style.txt> to your subversion
config file should work.
On my Windows machine I use the Cygwin version of subversion which
uses ~/.subversion just like the Unix version does. I vaguelly recall
reading something about the "real" Windows version of the subversion
client would use a directory below %APPDATA%.
Stefan
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Re: Additional SourceSafe (VSS) Tasks - Any Comments?
Posted by Kev Jackson <ke...@it.fts-vn.com>.
Stefan Bodewig wrote:
>On Wed, 26 Apr 2006, Kev Jackson <ke...@it.fts-vn.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>>Would it be possible to checkin my antlib to svn?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Sure, you are a committer 8-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>doh!
>>
>>
>
>Please read the section starting with "Committers will need" in
><http://www.apache.org/dev/version-control.html#https-svn>. Your
>checked in files all had Windows line ends, fixed.
>
>
>
I'm probably going to have to dig around to discover how to change this
for subclipse - can't find it in the dialogs/menus so it may be a conf
file setting - sorry for the hassle you just had changing everything
>By convention the files should have gone to vss/trunk instead of vss
>but we can easily fix that later or when we move to the non-sandbox
>area.
>
>
>
I thought about the trunk issue, but didn't think that it was important
for sandbox stuff.
>>Please feel free to checkout and have a play with
>>
>>
>
>Will do when I find time, should be possible some time later this
>week.
>
>
>
>>(if you have a vss repo available), I tried to incoporate
>>fixes/enhancement requests in bugzilla as I was going along.
>>
>>
>
>Maybe you should point people in the bugzilla reports to the new
>location so they can give the antlib a try - or even compile the lib
>for them and make it available from people.apache.org/~kevj/
>
>
>
This is something I considered, along with the darcs antlib I put
together (for kicks) last year.
Thanks for fixing up my goofball svn commit - try to keep it clean next
time (use *nix dev platform would help...)
Kev
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Re: Additional SourceSafe (VSS) Tasks - Any Comments?
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006, Kev Jackson <ke...@it.fts-vn.com> wrote:
>>>Would it be possible to checkin my antlib to svn?
>>
>>Sure, you are a committer 8-)
>>
> doh!
Please read the section starting with "Committers will need" in
<http://www.apache.org/dev/version-control.html#https-svn>. Your
checked in files all had Windows line ends, fixed.
By convention the files should have gone to vss/trunk instead of vss
but we can easily fix that later or when we move to the non-sandbox
area.
> Please feel free to checkout and have a play with
Will do when I find time, should be possible some time later this
week.
> (if you have a vss repo available), I tried to incoporate
> fixes/enhancement requests in bugzilla as I was going along.
Maybe you should point people in the bugzilla reports to the new
location so they can give the antlib a try - or even compile the lib
for them and make it available from people.apache.org/~kevj/
Stefan
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Re: Additional SourceSafe (VSS) Tasks - Any Comments?
Posted by Kev Jackson <ke...@it.fts-vn.com>.
>
>
>>Would it be possible to checkin my antlib to svn?
>>
>>
>
>Sure, you are a committer 8-)
>
>
doh!
>
>
>>Not sure as sandbox or normal antlib - all operations tested pass so
>>far.
>>
>>
>
>Just start with the sandbox, moving the code to "normal" isn't much
>more than a simple "svn mv" after all.
>
>
Done.
Please feel free to checkout and have a play with (if you have a vss
repo available), I tried to incoporate fixes/enhancement requests in
bugzilla as I was going along.
I shall now delete vss from my computer and never touch it again - oh
and have a wash with battery acid...
Kev
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Re: Additional SourceSafe (VSS) Tasks - Any Comments?
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006, Kev Jackson <ke...@it.fts-vn.com> wrote:
> Would it be possible to checkin my antlib to svn?
Sure, you are a committer 8-)
> Not sure as sandbox or normal antlib - all operations tested pass so
> far.
Just start with the sandbox, moving the code to "normal" isn't much
more than a simple "svn mv" after all.
Stefan
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Re: Additional SourceSafe (VSS) Tasks - Any Comments?
Posted by Kev Jackson <ke...@it.fts-vn.com>.
Stefan Bodewig wrote:
>On Mon, 24 Apr 2006, Kev Jackson <ke...@it.fts-vn.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Kevin Jackson wrote:
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>>Anybody have a problem with splitting VSS off into an antlib so that
>>>people with VSS can easily add tasks etc?
>>>
>>>
>
>Sounds right. For Ant 1.7 we could have a download that bundles Ant
>1.7 and the latest released version of that Antlib as well as a
>slimmed down download (and I'm with Matt, no need to stop at VSS).
>
>
I'd also think about still including the optional MSVSS tasks as part of
the download - afterall people will expect the old build files to work,
and if we remove the old tasks and just provide an antlib, then things
will break.
Would it be possible to checkin my antlib to svn? Not sure as sandbox
or normal antlib - all operations tested pass so far. Just worry about
losing data here (plus I've resigned so I won't have access to this
machine next month).
Kev
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Re: Additional SourceSafe (VSS) Tasks - Any Comments?
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006, Kev Jackson <ke...@it.fts-vn.com> wrote:
> Kevin Jackson wrote:
>>Anybody have a problem with splitting VSS off into an antlib so that
>>people with VSS can easily add tasks etc?
Sounds right. For Ant 1.7 we could have a download that bundles Ant
1.7 and the latest released version of that Antlib as well as a
slimmed down download (and I'm with Matt, no need to stop at VSS).
> We do have quite a few outstanding issues for VSS and very few (if
> any) of the committer team have access on a regular basis to a VSS
> install
I do have now, but hope to get rid of it completely in the future 8-)
Stefan
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Re: Additional SourceSafe (VSS) Tasks - Any Comments?
Posted by Kev Jackson <ke...@it.fts-vn.com>.
Kevin Jackson wrote:
>>Standard Ant contains a number of VSS tasks and I'm writing a couple
>>more for my own use (tasks relating to file / project properties, such
>>as shared versions). My questions are: should I submit these tasks for
>>possible inclusion in the standard Ant distribution? And if so, do you
>>have any advice on the best way to do that? I've read the "Task Design
>>Guidelines", by the way.
>>
>>
>
>Anybody have a problem with splitting VSS off into an antlib so that
>people with VSS can easily add tasks etc? I recall that there are
>also a couple of bugs listed (enhancements and patches) for VSS, but
>without anyone willing to test them, they aren't going to be worked
>on. I see an antlib being useful here, but would like to know what
>other people think.
>
>
>
I've knocked together an antlib for vss against 1.7 trunk.
I still need to write the testcases (JUnit + xml files), but is there
any interest in this approach so that the VSS users can add commands /
support VSS outside of the dev cycle for Ant proper?
We do have quite a few outstanding issues for VSS and very few (if any)
of the committer team have access on a regular basis to a VSS install
Having spent the past hour or so getting VSS to acknowledge Ant
interacting with it (or indeed even the MS supplied command line tools),
I'm in favour of pushing all of this code off into an ant lib which the
users can manage by themselves!
FYI, I'd be willing to put in the initial effort to deliver an antlib if
the rest of you thought it was worthwhile - indeed it's mostly there
already, and I'd be willing to incorporate additional code into this
antlib - *for the next two weeks while I have access to VSS*
I feel like I need a wash...
Kev
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Re: Additional SourceSafe (VSS) Tasks - Any Comments?
Posted by Matt Benson <gu...@yahoo.com>.
--- Kevin Jackson <fo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anybody have a problem with splitting VSS off into
> an antlib so that
> people with VSS can easily add tasks etc? I recall
Registering my support for breaking as much 3pp stuff
away from core.
-Matt
> that there are
> also a couple of bugs listed (enhancements and
> patches) for VSS, but
> without anyone willing to test them, they aren't
> going to be worked
> on. I see an antlib being useful here, but would
> like to know what
> other people think.
>
> >
> > Having looked at the Dev mail archive, I've
> noticed that VSS tasks can
> > be a bit of a problem for committers, since they
> don't (as a rule) have
> > access to VSS to test the tasks. Any way I can
> help with that?
> >
>
> It would be good for the team if you (or anyone with
> VSS access) could
> run the current trunk version (1.7alpha) against VSS
> so that we know
> ahead of time about any problems.
>
> Kev
>
>
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Re: Additional SourceSafe (VSS) Tasks - Any Comments?
Posted by Kevin Jackson <fo...@gmail.com>.
> Standard Ant contains a number of VSS tasks and I'm writing a couple
> more for my own use (tasks relating to file / project properties, such
> as shared versions). My questions are: should I submit these tasks for
> possible inclusion in the standard Ant distribution? And if so, do you
> have any advice on the best way to do that? I've read the "Task Design
> Guidelines", by the way.
Anybody have a problem with splitting VSS off into an antlib so that
people with VSS can easily add tasks etc? I recall that there are
also a couple of bugs listed (enhancements and patches) for VSS, but
without anyone willing to test them, they aren't going to be worked
on. I see an antlib being useful here, but would like to know what
other people think.
>
> Having looked at the Dev mail archive, I've noticed that VSS tasks can
> be a bit of a problem for committers, since they don't (as a rule) have
> access to VSS to test the tasks. Any way I can help with that?
>
It would be good for the team if you (or anyone with VSS access) could
run the current trunk version (1.7alpha) against VSS so that we know
ahead of time about any problems.
Kev
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